Posts belonging to Category 'Allergic Skin Reaction From Lipitor'

Small paint touch ups

Question:

For the sixteen years I worked in plant engineering for General Motors Corp. it was the morning responsibility of the youngest electrical apprentice to fill a ten quart pail with fresh transformer oil and put it on the bench in the maintenance department… There is nothing better in this world for cleaning graphite and molybdenum smeared wrenches and hands, and every person on the maintenance gang used it several times a day, including me…  Must have been the PCB in those transformer oils that was so effective in cutting the grime… Being in medicine now I shudder to remember, but I have to say that I am not aware of any of the maintenance gang developing any signs of toxicity or neurologic damage as was claimed by the plaintiffs who ingested meat from the PCB fed cattle in that highly publicized trial, and the last time I had a checkup my liver functions continue to be absolutely normal… Denny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ron, I hear your points, and they are good ones.  We have all learned a thing or two from this thread. However, let me point out a few thing, a bit "tongue-in-cheek"… When I was a kid, we routinely used carbon tetrachloride to clean the tracks on my HO train set.   The FDA now says this stuff is worse than Agent Orange. We used to have asbestos insulation wrapped around the pipes in our basement.  We used to swing from those pipes, until the tape around the asbestos broke, and the powder rained down on us.    This went on for years. And we all know what asbestos does to your lungs. Both my parents smoked non-stop in our household, day and night.   Can you say "second-hand smoke"? I smoked for 14 years myself. My entertainment consists of motorcycling and flying, two "high-risk" activities. Bottom line: I figure I shouldn’t have lived THIS long! (Which, of course, doesn’t mean that I will continue to behave stupidly — no matter WHAT Mary says I do… :) I will continue to VERY CAREFULLY touch up my paint with a brush and dixie cup. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 Again, you are dangerous.  You don’t even care to understand the facts. Do you think that sodium hydroxide in your oven cleaner or the surfacants and alchohol in your shower clearner are anywhere near the danger of polyisocyanurate?

Response:

So it is the big airlines that driving is being compared to when it is said that flying is safer? It’s kinda funny that my father was always dead set against me having a motorcycle when I was growing up but is a private pilot himself. :)

Yes, they are factoring in the big air carriers into that equation. That said, however, I feel MUCH safer in my airplane than I do on my Goldwing.   While you are of course subject to disastrous mechanical breakdowns in the aircraft (which would be an inconvenience on the motorcycle), the fact of the matter is that you are more in control of your own fate while airborne. Most fatal motorcycle accidents are due to someone elses mistake.  Most fatal aircraft accidents are due to the pilot’s mistake. I like those odds better. You are talking about non-instrument rated pilots flying into IMC, right? I’m trying to figure out why this is so dangerous. Obviously it shouldn’t be done on purpose but can’t the pilot do his 180 and get out of there or if he is surrounded, illegally navigate by instruments to his destination? Getting help from ATC is an option also, of course. It’s better than dying. Or are we talking about the really foolish pilots who get into IMC, got no instrument training whatsoever or they panic, and dig a hole?

Well, there is stupid, and then there is STUPID.  As a VFR pilot I’ve done some scud running, and it’s easy to see how the ceiling could gradually drop down and make continued flight an instruments-only affair.   The trick is to avoid those situations at all cost. And, of course, flying at night you can’t always SEE the IMC coming — which is one major reason why night flying is more dangerous. You ask why they just don’t "illegally navigate by instruments to (their) destination"?    It’s not QUITE that simple, as I’m discovering now.  (I’m hip-deep into my instrument training, with maybe 15 hours of training.) First, there’s this thing called "spatial disorientation", which is what killed JFK, Jr.   Once you’ve lost visual contact with the ground, it’s easy for your inner ear to fool you into thinking that SIDEWAYS is UP (for instance).  Once that happens (and it happens to everyone), you MUST trust what your instruments are telling you.   Untrained VFR pilots have a very difficult time doing that. Second, the instrument approaches are far from "intuitive", and require extensive training to perform.  Now, in theory anyway, ATC could vector you around and practically get you over the threshhold, but that assumes that our VFR-into-IMC pilot has the skills to keep the plane upright, and has a very cool head. Anyway, like I said: If you factor out careless mistakes, private flying is much safer than motorcycling.   (And don’t feel bad: My dad wouldn’t let me have a motorcycle until I was over 18.  Probably saved my life!) — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — Tracy Reed      http://www.ultraviolet.org

Response:

Is flying really considered a "high-risk" activity? Is it safer than driving or isn’t it? It’s hard enough for a pilot to get his friends to join him without people thinking it is high risk.

Who cares? Broaden your circle of friends. They will self-select into 2 groups: those who won’t because it is ("high risk"), and those who _will_ because it is. Let them choose and you reap the rewards. However, if you are trying to convince a particular individual one way or the other, you are on your own. —-                      _[ ]_/                       (o)/                      {}/^{}                

Breastfeeding and Herbs?

Question:

I checked, and, sorry, it does not. — Sara Mom to Nat (5/2/95) and Abby (4/28/97)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does the book say anything about Horsetail (an herb) ???                                    Wondering,                                    Mom 2 Randa 3                                      and David 3mos * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I just purchased the 4th edition of Kathleen Huggins’ book The Nursing Mother’s Companion.  This is what it has to say about these two herbs: "Ginkgo biloba:  There have been no studies on the use of ginkgo during lactation.  Side effects are generally mild, but allergic skin reactions have occurred, and these could occur in your nursing infant." "St. John’s wort:  This herb appears to be  effective in relieving mild depression.  There have been no studies of St. John’s wort during lactation, and it has not been studied in infants.  With exposure to light, the herb may cause allergic skin reactions in fair-skinned persons.  Also, the wisdom of self-medication for a serious condition such as depression is doubtful. St. John’s wort should be avoided during lactation." Hope this helps. — Sara Mom to Nat (5/2/95) and Abby (4/28/97)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Moms My husband brought home St. Johns Wort and Ginkgo Biloba so my question is are they safe to use while Breastfeeding???Both?  or Separate? Anita proud mom to Courtney 7, Sean 5, and Sarah 7mo.(BF)

Response:

Does the book say anything about Horsetail (an herb) ???                                    Wondering,                                    Mom 2 Randa 3                                      and David 3mos * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi Moms My husband brought home St. Johns Wort and Ginkgo Biloba so my question is are they safe to use while Breastfeeding???Both?  or Separate? Anita proud mom to Courtney 7, Sean 5, and Sarah 7mo.(BF)

Response:

From what I understand *most* of the herbs are safe.. BUT my pedi said there has not been a whole lot of research done on the effects of herbals on bfing and preg women. ( I don’t know if she is 100% correct ) Personally,  I would stear clear of any herbs that are "uppers" or are associated with weight loss…  My opinion only…  I will check out more about this myself as I liked to take some herbals pre-pregnancy. Just my thoughts.

Response:

Gingko is safe, according to my pedi–I wouldn’t take over 40mg/day, personally, as it’s an anticoagulant.  I’ve been wondering about St John’s Wort myself. Moms? :) Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Moms My husband brought home St. Johns Wort and Ginkgo Biloba so my question is are they safe to use while Breastfeeding???Both?  or Separate? Anita proud mom to Courtney 7, Sean 5, and Sarah 7mo.(BF)

Response:

Some observations concering vitamins, meds, and ADHD

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried an experiment recently–the Amen Clinic website suggested that there was reason to believe that a B-complex, Kava-Kava, and several other substances could be beneficial.  Amen is sufficiently respected that I’m willing to try his suggestions if they halfway make sense and are unlikely to be harmful.  I’ll get to the details in a moment, but first some background. As the regulars in the group know, I’m a 47 year old male, diagnosed with ADHD about 4 years ago.  First med tried was methylphenidate.  It did wonders for about 6 months and then the benefits started declining.   Went to Wellbutrin, discovered that I had had been suffering from depression for most of my life and hadn’t noticed, but didn’t do a whole heck of a lot for the ADHD.  Continued the Wellbutrin, tried Dexedrine.   Dex made observable changes in my ability to follow a conversation, but did not do much else.  Tried Adderall, and it didn’t do much better. At this point someone posted a pointer to a test at the Amen Clinic web site, which I took and then read the suggestions.  I made a list of substances and dosages and took it down to the pharmacy.  By the simple expedient of picking from among the substances that they had on the shelf those which seemed least likely to cause undesirable interactions with the meds I was taking (note–there were other meds than the ADD meds) I settled on a B complex and Kava-Kava.  The B-Complex was "Nature-Made Balanced B-100 Timed Release", , while the Kava-Kava was the store brand "150mg Standardized Herbal Extract". I was not expecting anything much to happen. I was quite surprised to find after a few days that I was behaving _exactly_ as I had during the first few months on Ritalin.  If I missed a dose of the adderall then I backslid–if I missed a B-Complex and Kava-Kava I did not notice any change.  After a month of this I had an appointment with my P-Doc with whom I discussed the matter, and we decided to see if methylphenidate, which had stopped working, would now work again, so he gave me a two-week trial of Concerta.  That did nothing discernible, so I went back on the Adderall.  After a couple of more weeks it seemed to be producing less benefit, and over the next month its effectiveness pretty well declined to the pre-trial levels. I felt that the B-100 was excessive–I was seeing some side-effects at first (actually got a bit of a buzz)–so when that ran out I went to the same brand B-50.  Wasn’t expecting anything, but at this point, I _think_ that I’m starting to see improvement again, but I may be in error. My conclusion from this is that there is _something_ going on that is affected by either B-Complex or Kava-Kava or both.  I do not know what.   I can say with some confidence that it is not as simple as a deficiency. I have two hypotheses. One is that there is some substance whose production is affected by the stimulants, but which has several precursors one of whose production is affected in some way by the B-complex or Kava-Kava.  The increased intake of B-complex would (assuming that it is the substance conferring the benefit) allow increased production of the substance until such time as my stock of one of the other precursors was consumed, at which time the substance again became unavailable.   The other is that there is a set-point regulatory mechanism of some sort which normally maintains the level of some substance in my body at a level insufficient to allow me a neurotypical attention-span etc, and the consumption of various substances can cause a transient increase in that substance, which as the regulatory mechanism readjusts goes back to its former level. I’m just throwing this out in the hope that (a) it might be useful to someone, and (b) that perhaps it might suggest a beneficial line of research to someone who has the resources to pursue such matters. Meanwhile, I may see if I can find another precursor, assuming that that is the correct hypothesis. — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Thanks, John, Kava (aka Ava in Hawaii) makles my throat swell up severely.  It has an alkaloid ( I think that’s what it is) that is toxic to me and some other folks. I hav benefitted from vitamin B supplements for other problems on occasion.  Maybe I will give vitamin B supplements another look. -George

Response:

I took Kava-Kava for a little while, and it just made me dizzy, gave me the shakes, and kept me awake at night. Well, on second thought that’s kind of how I am normally, so I guess it just made things worse… Dan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried an experiment recently–the Amen Clinic website suggested that there was reason to believe that a B-complex, Kava-Kava, and several other substances could be beneficial.  Amen is sufficiently respected that I’m willing to try his suggestions if they halfway make sense and are unlikely to be harmful.  I’ll get to the details in a moment, but first some background. <snip I was quite surprised to find after a few days that I was behaving _exactly_ as I had during the first few months on Ritalin.  If I missed a dose of the adderall then I backslid–if I missed a B-Complex and Kava-Kava I did not notice any change.  After a month of this I had an appointment with my P-Doc with whom I discussed the matter, and we decided to see if methylphenidate, which had stopped working, would now work again, so he gave me a two-week trial of Concerta.  That did nothing discernible, so I went back on the Adderall.  After a couple of more weeks it seemed to be producing less benefit, and over the next month its effectiveness pretty well declined to the pre-trial levels. I felt that the B-100 was excessive–I was seeing some side-effects at first (actually got a bit of a buzz)–so when that ran out I went to the same brand B-50.  Wasn’t expecting anything, but at this point, I _think_ that I’m starting to see improvement again, but I may be in error. My conclusion from this is that there is _something_ going on that is affected by either B-Complex or Kava-Kava or both.  I do not know what. I can say with some confidence that it is not as simple as a deficiency. <snip I’m just throwing this out in the hope that (a) it might be useful to someone, and (b) that perhaps it might suggest a beneficial line of research to someone who has the resources to pursue such matters. Meanwhile, I may see if I can find another precursor, assuming that that is the correct hypothesis. John,  Thanks for posting this. I recently started taking Kava Kava on an intermittent basis. I was seeking its muscle relaxant effect, since I’ve been building a tolerance to the one I have been taking for several months. I had already noticed that the kava kava was far less likely to make me drowsy than the prescription. I shall watch to see if it potentiates my Adderall in any way… Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so… AmMen

Response:

I tried an experiment recently–the Amen Clinic website suggested that there was reason to believe that a B-complex, Kava-Kava, and several other substances could be beneficial.  Amen is sufficiently respected that I’m willing to try his suggestions if they halfway make sense and are unlikely to be harmful.  I’ll get to the details in a moment, but first some background. As the regulars in the group know, I’m a 47 year old male, diagnosed with ADHD about 4 years ago.  First med tried was methylphenidate.  It did wonders for about 6 months and then the benefits started declining.   Went to Wellbutrin, discovered that I had had been suffering from depression for most of my life and hadn’t noticed, but didn’t do a whole heck of a lot for the ADHD.  Continued the Wellbutrin, tried Dexedrine.   Dex made observable changes in my ability to follow a conversation, but did not do much else.  Tried Adderall, and it didn’t do much better. At this point someone posted a pointer to a test at the Amen Clinic web site, which I took and then read the suggestions.  I made a list of substances and dosages and took it down to the pharmacy.  By the simple expedient of picking from among the substances that they had on the shelf those which seemed least likely to cause undesirable interactions with the meds I was taking (note–there were other meds than the ADD meds) I settled on a B complex and Kava-Kava.  The B-Complex was "Nature-Made Balanced B-100 Timed Release", , while the Kava-Kava was the store brand "150mg Standardized Herbal Extract". I was not expecting anything much to happen. I was quite surprised to find after a few days that I was behaving _exactly_ as I had during the first few months on Ritalin.  If I missed a dose of the adderall then I backslid–if I missed a B-Complex and Kava-Kava I did not notice any change.  After a month of this I had an appointment with my P-Doc with whom I discussed the matter, and we decided to see if methylphenidate, which had stopped working, would now work again, so he gave me a two-week trial of Concerta.  That did nothing discernible, so I went back on the Adderall.  After a couple of more weeks it seemed to be producing less benefit, and over the next month its effectiveness pretty well declined to the pre-trial levels. I felt that the B-100 was excessive–I was seeing some side-effects at first (actually got a bit of a buzz)–so when that ran out I went to the same brand B-50.  Wasn’t expecting anything, but at this point, I _think_ that I’m starting to see improvement again, but I may be in error. My conclusion from this is that there is _something_ going on that is affected by either B-Complex or Kava-Kava or both.  I do not know what.   I can say with some confidence that it is not as simple as a deficiency. I have two hypotheses. One is that there is some substance whose production is affected by the stimulants, but which has several precursors one of whose production is affected in some way by the B-complex or Kava-Kava.  The increased intake of B-complex would (assuming that it is the substance conferring the benefit) allow increased production of the substance until such time as my stock of one of the other precursors was consumed, at which time the substance again became unavailable.   The other is that there is a set-point regulatory mechanism of some sort which normally maintains the level of some substance in my body at a level insufficient to allow me a neurotypical attention-span etc, and the consumption of various substances can cause a transient increase in that substance, which as the regulatory mechanism readjusts goes back to its former level. I’m just throwing this out in the hope that (a) it might be useful to someone, and (b) that perhaps it might suggest a beneficial line of research to someone who has the resources to pursue such matters. Meanwhile, I may see if I can find another precursor, assuming that that is the correct hypothesis. — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Response:

I am glad the site helped you! I also went, and got two recommendations, both for L-Tryptophan. Went looking for it. It’s been banned.  :( I took Kava Kava once and the effect in me was horrible. My arms felt partially numb (really) and I felt very disoriented. I’m very glad I wasn’t driving! But of course Amen says "differnt strokes for different folks." I’m really NOT saying anything about your choice. The online diagnosis lined up perfectly with my real life diagnosis, by the way…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried an experiment recently–the Amen Clinic website suggested that there was reason to believe that a B-complex, Kava-Kava, and several other substances could be beneficial.  Amen is sufficiently respected that I’m willing to try his suggestions if they halfway make sense and are unlikely to be harmful.  I’ll get to the details in a moment, but first some background. <snip I was quite surprised to find after a few days that I was behaving _exactly_ as I had during the first few months on Ritalin.  If I missed a dose of the adderall then I backslid–if I missed a B-Complex and Kava-Kava I did not notice any change.  After a month of this I had an appointment with my P-Doc with whom I discussed the matter, and we decided to see if methylphenidate, which had stopped working, would now work again, so he gave me a two-week trial of Concerta.  That did nothing discernible, so I went back on the Adderall.  After a couple of more weeks it seemed to be producing less benefit, and over the next month its effectiveness pretty well declined to the pre-trial levels. I felt that the B-100 was excessive–I was seeing some side-effects at first (actually got a bit of a buzz)–so when that ran out I went to the same brand B-50.  Wasn’t expecting anything, but at this point, I _think_ that I’m starting to see improvement again, but I may be in error. My conclusion from this is that there is _something_ going on that is affected by either B-Complex or Kava-Kava or both.  I do not know what.   I can say with some confidence that it is not as simple as a deficiency. <snip I’m just throwing this out in the hope that (a) it might be useful to someone, and (b) that perhaps it might suggest a beneficial line of research to someone who has the resources to pursue such matters. Meanwhile, I may see if I can find another precursor, assuming that that is the correct hypothesis.

John,  Thanks for posting this. I recently started taking Kava Kava on an intermittent basis. I was seeking its muscle relaxant effect, since I’ve been building a tolerance to the one I have been taking for several months. I had already noticed that the kava kava was far less likely to make me drowsy than the prescription. I shall watch to see if it potentiates my Adderall in any way… Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so… AmMen

Response:

<snipped Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so…

http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/Alt_med/Library/Monograph/kava.html Composition: The dried rhizome contains kava-pyrones (kawain). Actions: Anti-anxiety. Potentiates sedation. Anticonvulsive, antispasmodic, and central muscular relaxant effects. Use: Nervous anxiety, stress, and restlessness. Contraindications: Pregnancy. Nursing. Endogenous depression. Side Effects: None known. Rare allergic skin reactions. Disturbances of oculomotor equilibrium. Cautions: Extended intake can cause temporary yellow discoloration of skin, hair, nails–Discontinue if this occurs.  Potentiation of effects on the central nervous system when used in combination with alcohol, barbiturates and psychopharmacological agents. (May adversely affect motor reflexes and judgement for operating machinery) Duration and Administration: Preparations of the rhizome are available for oral use. Do not use for more than three months without medical advice. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

JClarke– I think you are right about the medications perhaps zapping out some nutrients that are essential for optimal functioning; and replacement, or supplementation beyond diet, is wise.  This is not a radical concept, just a conventional one that is often unheeded.   (For example, people who exercise a lot — and therefore metabolize liquids rapidly through their body on a regular basis — are vulnerable to depletions.) I assume you take a multivitamin with minerals?  Minerals are just as important, and especially with stims, are easily flushed out of the body. Important ones that can really cause problems if depleted:  calcium, magnesium, selenium, zinc.   People taking Wellbutrin, for example, sometimes report hairloss (also associated with mood stablizers).  Although the benefits of mineral supplementation for associated hairloss are not confirmed in the literature, they are discussed;  and many clinicians advise selenium and zinc supplements for this potential side effect. I’m just curious:  Does the combination Wellbutrin/stimulant affect your blood pressure in any way?                       \  - –  //                      oooO   (    )                       (     )     )  /                          (     (_

Response:

People drinking a drink prepared with kava-kava have been arrested in CA for driving under the influence. Kava Kava is actually an intoxicant. Do be careful with it.  ;)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so… http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/Alt_med/Library/Monograph/kava.html Composition: The dried rhizome contains kava-pyrones (kawain). Actions: Anti-anxiety. Potentiates sedation. Anticonvulsive, antispasmodic, and central muscular relaxant effects. Use: Nervous anxiety, stress, and restlessness. Contraindications: Pregnancy. Nursing. Endogenous depression. Side Effects: None known.

It may not be correct. I recall seeing something recently about this. Can’t recall where, though. Rare allergic skin reactions. Disturbances of – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -oculomotor equilibrium. Cautions: Extended intake can cause temporary yellow discoloration of skin, hair, nails–Discontinue if this occurs.  Potentiation of effects on the central nervous system when used in combination with alcohol, barbiturates and psychopharmacological agents. (May adversely affect motor reflexes and judgement for operating machinery) Duration and Administration: Preparations of the rhizome are available for oral use. Do not use for more than three months without medical advice. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                      - – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so… http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/Alt_med/Library/Monograph/kava.html Composition: The dried rhizome contains kava-pyrones (kawain). Actions: Anti-anxiety. Potentiates sedation. Anticonvulsive, antispasmodic, and central muscular relaxant effects. Use: Nervous anxiety, stress, and restlessness. Contraindications: Pregnancy. Nursing. Endogenous depression. Side Effects: None known. It may not be correct. I recall seeing something recently about this. Can’t recall where, though.

If you can find it, please post it.  I’ll forward it to the website. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so… http://neuro.vetmed.ufl.edu/Alt_med/Library/Monograph/kava.html Composition: The dried rhizome contains kava-pyrones (kawain). Actions: Anti-anxiety. Potentiates sedation. Anticonvulsive, antispasmodic, and central muscular relaxant effects. Use: Nervous anxiety, stress, and restlessness. Contraindications: Pregnancy. Nursing. Endogenous depression. Side Effects: None known. It may not be correct. I recall seeing something recently about this. Can’t recall where, though. If you can find it, please post it.  I’ll forward it to the website.

Tuesday July 10 5:36 PM ET Herbal Medicines Pose Risk During Surgery: Report By Keith Mulvihill NEW YORK (Reuters Health) – Taking herbal medications and having surgery may be a risky combination that can lead to excessive bleeding, heart instability or a reduction in blood sugar levels. In the latest report on the topic, physicians from the University of Chicago warn of the risks herbal medications may pose to those about to go under the knife. Their report is in the July 11th issue of The Journal of the American Medical Association (news – web sites). “Herbal medications have measurable, and sometimes potent, pharmacologic effects. While many of these effects are of little concern to the average person on the street, these effects can present a significant problem during surgery,” said lead author Dr. Michael K. Ang-Lee in an interview with Reuters Health. “It is not our intention to scare the public…but it is important that patients talk to their doctors about their use of herbal medications before surgery,” he added. In their report, Ang-Lee along with colleagues Drs. Jonathan Moss and Chun-Su Yuan looked at published studies, case reports and reviews on the potential effects of eight of the most commonly used herbal medications: echinacea, ephedra (also known as ma huang), garlic, ginkgo, ginseng, kava, St. John’s wort, and valerian. “Direct effects include bleeding from garlic, ginkgo and ginseng; cardiovascular instability from ephedra; and hypoglycemia low blood sugar from ginseng,” the study indicates. Additionally, the author’s report that drug-herb interactions may result between anesthesia and valerian or kava. These herbs, often used as sleep aids, may potentially increase the sedative effects of anesthesia, they note. “In reviewing the literature, a couple of things surprised me the most: the high percentage of patients having surgery that use herbal medications, almost one third, and the fact that many of patients do not tell their doctors that they use herbal medications–50% to 70%,” Ang-Lee told Reuters Health. “Patients should consider it important to mention it if they use herbal medications and should not be embarrassed to admit to their physicians that they use ‘unconventional’ medical therapies,” he added. It is also important for the public to be aware that physicians are becoming much more educated about the use of alternative therapies, points out Ang-Lee. One of the major problems that face physicians taking care of patients having surgery is the question of what to do once they find out a patient is taking herbal medications, notes Ang-Less. Some professional organizations such as the American Society of Anesthesiologists have suggested that patients stop taking herbal medications 2-3 weeks before surgery, but a patient may not see an anesthesiologist until just before the procedure. “In the real world, we often see patients the day of surgery or at best, 1-2 days before surgery,” he said. Therefore patients should discuss the subject with their doctor as far in advance of surgery as possible. Doctors are becoming increasingly savvy regarding the herbal remedies their patients might be taking, and can help patients determine when they should stop taking a supplement, Ang-Lee said. “I think that we are starting to see the medical community getting more sophisticated about herbal medications and are beginning to tailor recommendations depending on the specific herbal medication being used, the patients coexisting medical condition and the type of surgery,” he said. And Ang-Lee said that it is important to note that it may not be the best idea to stop some herbal medications abruptly. “For example, we found that valerian could be associated with withdrawal if it is stopped abruptly in someone who has been taking it for a long time,” he said. SOURCE: The Journal of the American Medical Association 2001;286:208-216. One never knows when one is going to have emergency surgery and cannot provide a history of having taken these chemicals.

Response:

<snipped Thanks for the info, Mark. One never knows when one is going to have emergency surgery and cannot provide a history of having taken these chemicals.

Yes, but it’s the same with prescription and OTC drugs, too.  For instance, the article states, "Direct effects include bleeding from garlic, ginkgo and ginseng."  I have those problems from aspirin, ibuprofen, or any other anti-coagulent or vassal dilator.  :-( BTW, another reason I’m glad that you posted this is that now I’ve got to think more about all that garlic I like to use.  It helps reduce the number of mosquito/tick/chigger bites.  But seeing that it increases bleeding explains my increased ease of bruising. — Kitten = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = I’m a bitch, I’m a lover; I’m a child, I’m a mother I’m a sinner, I’m a saint; I do not feel ashamed I’m your hell, I’m you dream; I’m nothing in between You know you wouldn’t want it any other way                                                                       – – - Meredith Brooks

Response:

Does anyone know what the contraindications for kava kava are? I realize that I am performing medical experiments on myself, but at this point I am quite willing to do so…

Supposedly people with depressive tendencies are supposed to stay away from it.  I looked up the research though and was unconvinced.  At the time it was the only thing that worked on my chronic insomnia, and I was willing to take my chances.  I never noticed any effect on my depression – if anything I felt better, from getting some good sleep.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I tried an experiment recently–the Amen Clinic website suggested that there was reason to believe that a B-complex, Kava-Kava, and several other substances could be beneficial.  Amen is sufficiently respected that I’m willing to try his suggestions if they halfway make sense and are unlikely to be harmful.  I’ll get to the details in a moment, but first some background. As the regulars in the group know, I’m a 47 year old male, diagnosed with ADHD about 4 years ago.  First med tried was methylphenidate.  It did wonders for about 6 months and then the benefits started declining.   Went to Wellbutrin, discovered that I had had been suffering from depression for most of my life and hadn’t noticed, but didn’t do a whole heck of a lot for the ADHD.  Continued the Wellbutrin, tried Dexedrine.   Dex made observable changes in my ability to follow a conversation, but did not do much else.  Tried Adderall, and it didn’t do much better. At this point someone posted a pointer to a test at the Amen Clinic web site, which I took and then read the suggestions.  I made a list of substances and dosages and took it down to the pharmacy.  By the simple expedient of picking from among the substances that they had on the shelf those which seemed least likely to cause undesirable interactions with the meds I was taking (note–there were other meds than the ADD meds) I settled on a B complex and Kava-Kava.  The B-Complex was "Nature-Made Balanced B-100 Timed Release", , while the Kava-Kava was the store brand "150mg Standardized Herbal Extract". I was not expecting anything much to happen. I was quite surprised to find after a few days that I was behaving _exactly_ as I had during the first few months on Ritalin.  If I missed a dose of the adderall then I backslid–if I missed a B-Complex and Kava-Kava I did not notice any change.  After a month of this I had an appointment with my P-Doc with whom I discussed the matter, and we decided to see if methylphenidate, which had stopped working, would now work again, so he gave me a two-week trial of Concerta.  That did nothing discernible, so I went back on the Adderall.  After a couple of more weeks it seemed to be producing less benefit, and over the next month its effectiveness pretty well declined to the pre-trial levels. I felt that the B-100 was excessive–I was seeing some side-effects at first (actually got a bit of a buzz)–so when that ran out I went to the same brand B-50.  Wasn’t expecting anything, but at this point, I _think_ that I’m starting to see improvement again, but I may be in error. My conclusion from this is that there is _something_ going on that is affected by either B-Complex or Kava-Kava or both.  I do not know what.   I can say with some confidence that it is not as simple as a deficiency. I have two hypotheses. One is that there is some substance whose production is affected by the stimulants, but which has several precursors one of whose production is affected in some way by the B-complex or Kava-Kava.  The increased intake of B-complex would (assuming that it is the substance conferring the benefit) allow increased production of the substance until such time as my stock of one of the other precursors was consumed, at which time the substance again became unavailable.   The other is that there is a set-point regulatory mechanism of some sort which normally maintains the level of some substance in my body at a level insufficient to allow me a neurotypical attention-span etc, and the consumption of various substances can cause a transient increase in that substance, which as the regulatory mechanism readjusts goes back to its former level. I’m just throwing this out in the hope that (a) it might be useful to someone, and (b) that perhaps it might suggest a beneficial line of research to someone who has the resources to pursue such matters. Meanwhile, I may see if I can find another precursor, assuming that that is the correct hypothesis. —

That’s really good that you seem to have found something that works. Am curious about the Kava Kava, I’ll check it out and see if it can help me, so I can use it as a backup med of sorts. Also helpful in this time that BC is dragging their feet to send us the acceptance forms. I want insurance now BC!        Norma   — Follow the white rabbit… But don’t get lost!

Response:

Ginkgo – A Word of Caution

Question:

"Curtis E. Sahakian" <cp…@interaccess.com

wrote: Can you tell me where I can go to make sure I can find the results of the forthcoming Ginko/Tinnitus research when it does come out?

………………… I am certain that the results of the study will be discussed in "Tinnitus Today," the journal of the American Tinnitus Association, in "Quiet," the journal of the British Tinnitus Association, and in "Tinnitus Talk," the journal of the Australian Tinnitus Association. Join any (or all as I did) of these organizations, and you will know about the results.  I am also sure that they will be presented at the Sixth International Tinnitus Seminar to be held in the fall of 1999 in Cambridge, UK.  Finally, the results will in all probability be discussed on this newsgroup (atl.support.tinnitus) and on the "Tinnitus Message Board" (on the Web at http://www.visi.com/~weibergc/tinnitus/tinnitus.html). stephen nagler Stephen M. Nagler, MD, FACS Director Southeastern Comprehensive Tinnitus Clinic Atlanta, Georgia http://www.tinn.com (404) 531-3979

Response:

 In Germany  a special commission (Kommission E) of the Bundesgesundheitsamt (the German Federal Health Agency) was responsible for developing plant monographs. Based on safety and efficacy data, more than 230 positive monographs were published in the Bundesanzeiger (equivalent to the Federal Register). Phytomedicines could be marketed according to the indications, mentioned in the monographs. Commission E Monographs, excerpt monograph on Ginkgo. Ginkgo Published July 19, 1994 DESCRIPTION OF DRUG Dry extract (35-67:1) from Ginkgo biloba L. leaf, (family Ginkgoaceae) extracted with acetone/water. Active Ingredient Classification (ASK No) No .05939. COMPOSITION OF DRUG A dry extract from the dried leaf of Ginkgo biloba L. manufactured using acetone/water and subsequent purification steps without addition of concentrates or isolated ingredients. The drug/extract ratio is 35-67: 1, on average 50:1 The extract is characterized by:      22 to 27% flavonoid glycosides, determined as quercetin and kaempferol including isorhamnetin (via HPLC) and      calculated as flavones with a molar mass of mMr = 756.7 (quercetin glycosides) and mMr =740.7 (kaempferol      glycosides);      5 to 7% terpene lactones, of which approximately 2.8 to 3.4% consists of ginkgolides A, B, and C, as well as      approximately 2.6 to 3.2% bilobalide;      below 5 ppm ginkgolic acids. The given ranges include manufacturing and analytical variances. PHARMACOLOGICAL PROPERTIES, PHARMACOKINETICS, TOXICOLOGY The following pharmacological effects have been established experimentally: Improvement of hypoxic tolerance, particularly in the cerebral tissue. Inhibition of the development of traumatically or toxically induced cerebral edema, and acceleration of its regression. Reduction of retinal edema and of cellular lesions in the retina. Inhibition in age-related reduction of muscarinergic cholinoceptors and 2-adrenoceptors as well as stimulation of choline uptake in the hippocampus. Increased memory performance and learning capacity. Improvement in the compensation of disturbed equilibrium. Improvement of blood flow, preferably in the region of microcirculation. Improvement of the rheological properties of the blood. Inactivation of toxic oxygen radicals (flavonoids). Antagonism of the platelet-activating factor/PAF (ginkgolides). Neuroprotective effect (ginkgolides A and B, bilobalide), The pharmacokinetics have been investigated both in animal experiments and in trials involving humans. An absorption rate of 60% was found in rats for a radioactively labeled extract (specified as under COMPOSITION OF DRUG) in humans after application of an extract specified as above. Absolute bioavailability was 98-100% for ginkgolide A, 79-93% for ginkgolide B and at least 70% for bilobalide. Both the acute and the chronic toxicity of an extract as specified under COMPOSITION OF DRUG is very low; accordingly, the LD50 in the mouse was 7725 mg/kg body weight after oral application and 1100 mg/kg body weight after intravenous application. Investigations with this extract specified as above showed no effects which were either mutagenic, carcinogenic, or toxic to reproduction. No evaluation was performed on the transferability of the experimental results to extracts other than those investigated. [Eds. note: This statement refers to the fact that only a few proprietary ginkgo extracts were used in the studies upon which this monograph is based. Whether these results can be extrapolated to other ginkgo extracts is uncertain.] CLINICAL DATA 1. USES: (a) For symptomatic treatment of disturbed performance in organic brain syndrome within the regimen of a therapeutic concept in cases of demential syndromes with the following principal symptoms: Memory deficits, disturbances in concentration, depressive emotional condition, dizziness, tinnitus, and headache. Note: Prior to starting treatment with ginkgo extract, clarification should be obtained as to whether the pathological symptoms encountered are not based on an underlying disease requiring a specific treatment (b) Improvement of pain-free walking distance in peripheral arterial osclusive disease in Stage II of Fontaine (claudicatio intermittens) in a regimen of physical therapeutic measures in particular walking exercise. (c) Vertigo and tinnitus (ringing in the ear) of vascular and involutional origin. 2. CONTRAINDICATIONS: Hypersensitivity to Ginkgo biloba preparations. 3. SIDE EFFECTS: Very seldom stomach or intestinal upsets, headaches or allergic skin reaction. 4. SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS IN ADMINISTRATION: None. 5. PRECAUTIONS FOR PREGNANCY AND LACTATION: No restrictions known 6. INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER DRUGS: None known. 7. DOSAGE AND ADMINISTRATION: Unless otherwise prescribed: Daily dosages: Indication (a): 120 to 240 mg native dry extract in 2 or 3 doses. Indications (b) and (c): 120 to 160 mg native dry extract in 2 or 3 doses. 8. MODE OF APPLICATION: In liquid or solid pharmaceutical forms for oral intake. 9. DURATION OF APPLICATION: Indication (a): Length of administration should be judged according to the severity of symptoms and should extend at least 8 weeks in the case of chronic illness. Administration for more than 3 months should be reviewed as to justification for continued administration. Indication (b): Improvement of ambulatory range requires administration for not less than 6 weeks. Indication (c): Administration at or more than 6-8 weeks has no therapeutic benefit. 10. OVERDOSAGE: Not known. 11. SPECIAL WARNINGS: None. 12. WARNINGS FOR DRIVERS AND OPERATORS OF HEAVY EQUIPMENT: None. Approved Herbs Commission E Monographs Revised March 4, 1996

Response:

Try it Leonard.  If you like peanuts and you like coke, you will like this concoction.

Are you talking about the horseradish on crackers? I’m well aware that horseradish (or a paste of English mustard powder and water) can free up the nose, and so can a good sniff of ammonia. If you *really* want to clear your sinuses for days on end, try tear gas. You’ll probably have to go to a military training base however. When my sinuses get really blocked however, *nothing* does it except Vancanase AQ, and sometimes not even that. That’s when it really gets bad and I get sinus headaches that feel like someone is tightening a steel band around my head. Thank God that doesn’t happen very often. Cheers, Leonard "When a man retires and time is no longer a matter of urgent importance, his colleagues generally present him with a watch." –R. C. Sherriff   237

Response:

I invented this concoction.  It is very good.  I introduced it in my Air Force barracks back in the 50’s.  I haven’t tried it since last week, however.

You concocted something that took you *40 years* to get up the courage to try? Keep it away from *me*! Cheers, Leonard "Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them." –James Baldwin     411

Response:

Try it Leonard.  If you like peanuts and you like coke, you will like this concoction.  I freely admit that my friends think I’m nuts.  Maybe this is one of those thinks that, if one doesn’t do it as a child they will never do it.  Did you try snorting some horseradish:<) — Bill Gerrells, Fargo, ND, USA American Tinnitus Association member Join the ATA at 800-634-8978. http://www.ata.org BuktiMukti wrote in message

<1998081714550600.KAA09…@ladder01.news.aol.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I invented this concoction.  It is very good.  I introduced it in my Air Force barracks back in the 50’s.  I haven’t tried it since last

week,

however. You concocted something that took you *40 years* to get up the courage to

try?

Keep it away from *me*! Cheers, Leonard "Children have never been very good at listening to their elders, but they have never failed to imitate them." –James Baldwin     411

Response:

In article <qR7APHAKMd11E…@woolner.demon.co.uk

, Tom Woolner

<T…@woolner.demon.co.uk

writes In article <1998081514150200.KAA01…@ladder03.news.aol.com, BuktiMukti <buktimu…@aol.com writes Gordon Bennett !! That is almost as vile as chewing gum while drinking a Chateau Pauillac. Sacriledge! LOL! Now

itching!!! Help!

Question:

James — I had the same problem.  it turned out to be an allergy to the adhesive tape, which puzzled me because I had been using regular adhesive tape for years with no known negative reaction.  But switching to hypo-allergenic tape cured the problem at once. Good luck.  Don Taylor On 14 Aug 1999, JMar54 wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just itching with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and I’ve tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find the answer be sure to post it.                              James

Response:

GRANNY WAG wrote in message

<19990815224749.26551.00000…@ng-fl1.aol.com

… Mick, I’ve had that same problem and I just started cutting off all the tape from

the

pouch/wafer and throwing it away!!  I use Hollister Premium one-piece

drainable

convex pouches.  I wear the belt that clips on the pouch.  If you get a

good

seal under the wafer, the tape around the edges is unnecessary, I’ve been cutting it off for over a year now and have never had a leak and now have

no

more problems with itching. Have a good  one, Joy

_____________       Well that tape is my early warning system..          I depend on it as the last barrier when "It’s Time".         Without it, "Thar she blows….." would be heard around the house.          Lucky me, I have no allergies to my Convatec product.    (BTW GW,  the heat and drought finally got most of my tomatoes.) Richie  (U)

Response:

Mick, I’ve had that same problem and I just started cutting off all the tape from the pouch/wafer and throwing it away!!  I use Hollister Premium one-piece drainable convex pouches.  I wear the belt that clips on the pouch.  If you get a good seal under the wafer, the tape around the edges is unnecessary, I’ve been cutting it off for over a year now and have never had a leak and now have no more problems with itching. Have a good  one, Joy

Response:

Skin Prep and NoSting are both skin barriers.  My wafer seems to stay on better when I use it (NoSting) and also, when pulling off tape it shouldn’t irritate the skin as much. Mick Neuman <mi…@earthlink.net

wrote in message

news:7p7200$rdp$1@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

OK, what does the skinprep do?  I haven’t been using it, and yes, it does burn when I try to use it… Libbydoo wrote in message <6Ust3.135$sm4.6…@typhoon.southeast.rr.com… Does the SkinPrep burn your skin?  I got to where I couldn’t use it

without

screaming if it hit a raw spot.  My OT gave me samples of NoSting which

is

also a skin barrier.  I love it; it never burns.  Also, changing to the Durahesive wafer helped me a lot because the others were mostly tape and ate my skin something awful.  At times I would try to cut part of the tape

off

so that nothing would be on my skin in at least a few of the worst

places.

Of course I had to change more often to get it cleared up but it did finally get better.   One thing that I find weird with myself is at first I could use pink tape but not paper tape.  Now it’s just the opposite.  But since I’m just framing the wafer with tape, anything that doesn’t mess up my

skin

is what I use.  Later on, I may have to change to something else since it seems things change so much.  Whenever I had a raw place in an area that made it possible, I would spread Stomahesive paste over it in a thin

layer.

OUCH! but it worked at least part of the time.  If I can think of

anything

else I’ll let you know.  Of course it seems like most other people here

on

the NG have better luck with the length of time they can go before

changing

so maybe they can tell you more than I can.  I hope you can find an

answer

that really helps.  I know how aggravating it can get.  When I first got

my

ileostomy back in ‘81, I had to call the OT to come out and she knew that

I

had been having a lot of trouble.  When she came in I told her a joke and had her laughing.  She said that she thought I’d be in tears by the time she got there.  I told her I had passed the screaming and cursing stage a

LONG > >time ago and was now past the ‘throwing stuff’ stage too.  So there was > >nothing left but laughing at it; otherwise I’d probably just go crazy (as > in > >more than usual!).  Oh, one more thing.  When I used to go to the medical > >supply store, somebody was always there that could take me in a room and > see > >what my current problem was so that they would have a better idea of what > to > >suggest.  I don’t know if stores still do this though cause I’ve been > >getting my supplies from my home health care folks for years now. > >JMar54 <jma…@aol.com

wrote in message

> >news:19990814103907.07336.00001181@ng-fz1.aol.com… > >> My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just > >itching > >> with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and > I’ve > >> tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find

the answer be sure to post it.                              James

Response:

A tape allergy is usually an angry red rash that itches like crazy. Little bumps sounds more like irritated hair follicles, which are not that unusual. An ET or dermatologist should be able to tell you for certain if experimenting around with different tapes, powders and appliances doesn’t reveal what is causing the problem.

Response:

You people with sensitivty to the tape around the wafer should try using a skin barrier like Sin Prep. It solved all my itching and irritation problems under the tape part of the wafer… /Bob

Response:

I just stopped using the tape. That took care of the problem. I’m not sure why I used the tape, except my ET nurse told me to.

Response:

Well, it really seems like the itching is coming not from the tape, but from under the wafer – or whatever you call it – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -DavidRohn wrote in message <19990816095237.03964.00000…@ng-fz1.aol.com

… A tape allergy is usually an angry red rash that itches like crazy. Little bumps sounds more like irritated hair follicles, which are not that

unusual. An

ET or dermatologist should be able to tell you for certain if experimenting around with different tapes, powders and appliances doesn’t reveal what is causing the problem.

Response:

Experiment with Sween Cream.  But I’ve found that creams can sometimes interfere with adhesion.  Mycostatin powder is good for fungus, if that’s the problem, and will not interfere with flange.  If not fungus, and skin irritated, try Hollister Premium powder, or Karaya. Works for me, but I understand it doesn’t work for everyone!. Stan Delete "nospam" when replying

Response:

Ditto.  Try tapeless barriers.  I find that tapes ultimately cause skin breakdown.  Hollister synethetic or durahesive.  Stan. Delete "nospam" when replying

Response:

should try using a skin barrier like Sin Prep.

H’mmmm……."Sin Prep"  huh? I may have to try that!!  :) Joy

Response:

Hi Thanks for the help.  Where can I get Sween Cream?  Assuming I’ve ruled out fungus. Thanks again. Mick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Vince Puma wrote in message <7p4cld$sq…@usenet87.supernews.com

… .  Sween Cream is very good for clearing up excoriated skin.  A very small dab rubbed into the skin gently and all excess removed does the job. Earl (U) I’ll back up Earl’s suggestion for Sween Cream.  I just plain itch, no matter what appliances I’ve tried or how dry I get.  (Living in Florida has a lot to do with it, I think.)  So I rub in a small amount of Sween Cream every time I change–helps keep the itching down a lot.  So if you rule out fungal and allergic problems, you might want to try it. Vince (I)

Response:

Immediately, you can pick up a jar at any surgical supply store that carries ostomy supplies.  If you are in a state that has Sav-On drug stores that have added the Home and Health sections with ET’s and all home health care equipment etc, you will find Sween Creme there.  Otherwise, the ostomy supplier you normally use.  Hope there’s something close by and that you are out of misery quick!! Take care, Lane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mick Neuman wrote in message <7p4t1o$fg…@holly.prod.itd.earthlink.net

… Hi Thanks for the help.  Where can I get Sween Cream?  Assuming I’ve ruled out fungus. Thanks again. Mick Vince Puma wrote in message <7p4cld$sq…@usenet87.supernews.com… .  Sween Cream is very good for clearing up excoriated skin.  A very small dab rubbed into the skin gently and all excess removed does the job. Earl (U) I’ll back up Earl’s suggestion for Sween Cream.  I just plain itch, no matter what appliances I’ve tried or how dry I get.  (Living in Florida

has

a lot to do with it, I think.)  So I rub in a small amount of Sween Cream every time I change–helps keep the itching down a lot.  So if you rule

out

fungal and allergic problems, you might want to try it. Vince (I)

Response:

OK, what does the skinprep do?  I haven’t been using it, and yes, it does burn when I try to use it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Libbydoo wrote in message <6Ust3.135$sm4.6…@typhoon.southeast.rr.com

… Does the SkinPrep burn your skin?  I got to where I couldn’t use it without screaming if it hit a raw spot.  My OT gave me samples of NoSting which is also a skin barrier.  I love it; it never burns.  Also, changing to the Durahesive wafer helped me a lot because the others were mostly tape and

ate

my skin something awful.  At times I would try to cut part of the tape off so that nothing would be on my skin in at least a few of the worst places. Of course I had to change more often to get it cleared up but it did

finally

get better.   One thing that I find weird with myself is at first I could use pink tape but not paper tape.  Now it’s just the opposite.  But since I’m just framing the wafer with tape, anything that doesn’t mess up my skin is what I use.  Later on, I may have to change to something else since it seems things change so much.  Whenever I had a raw place in an area that made it possible, I would spread Stomahesive paste over it in a thin layer. OUCH! but it worked at least part of the time.  If I can think of anything else I’ll let you know.  Of course it seems like most other people here on the NG have better luck with the length of time they can go before changing so maybe they can tell you more than I can.  I hope you can find an answer that really helps.  I know how aggravating it can get.  When I first got my ileostomy back in ‘81, I had to call the OT to come out and she knew that I had been having a lot of trouble.  When she came in I told her a joke and had her laughing.  She said that she thought I’d be in tears by the time

she

got there.  I told her I had passed the screaming and cursing stage a LONG time ago and was now past the ‘throwing stuff’ stage too.  So there was nothing left but laughing at it; otherwise I’d probably just go crazy (as

in

more than usual!).  Oh, one more thing.  When I used to go to the medical supply store, somebody was always there that could take me in a room and

see

what my current problem was so that they would have a better idea of what

to

suggest.  I don’t know if stores still do this though cause I’ve been getting my supplies from my home health care folks for years now. JMar54 <jma…@aol.com wrote in message news:19990814103907.07336.00001181@ng-fz1.aol.com… My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just itching with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and

I’ve

tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find the answer be sure to post it.                              James

Response:

If the reaction is to your wafer, you need to switch brands.

None of the wafers list ingredients. How do I know which to try – the ETs use the "buy and try" method. I would like to get beyond that.

Response:

Mike wrote:

Hi Thanks for the help.  Where can I get Sween Cream?  Assuming I’ve ruled out fungus. Thanks again. Mick

Fungus has no bearing on whether you use Sween Cream or not.  The balm is for irritated, excoriated or damaged skin, whether from effluent, fungus, yeast, or allergy. Ask your supplier for a small tube of Sween Cream or I can send you a list of mail order companies.  The cream is made or distributed by Coloplast.  I’d recommend to start out with the smallest amount available. A 2 oz tube #0213 costs about $7.00.  AOS (1-800-858-5858) sells a 1/2 oz tube # SW0222 for $2.00.  A little bit goes a long way. Earl (U)

Response:

Does the SkinPrep burn your skin?  I got to where I couldn’t use it without screaming if it hit a raw spot.  My OT gave me samples of NoSting which is also a skin barrier.  I love it; it never burns.  Also, changing to the Durahesive wafer helped me a lot because the others were mostly tape and ate my skin something awful.  At times I would try to cut part of the tape off so that nothing would be on my skin in at least a few of the worst places. Of course I had to change more often to get it cleared up but it did finally get better.   One thing that I find weird with myself is at first I could use pink tape but not paper tape.  Now it’s just the opposite.  But since I’m just framing the wafer with tape, anything that doesn’t mess up my skin is what I use.  Later on, I may have to change to something else since it seems things change so much.  Whenever I had a raw place in an area that made it possible, I would spread Stomahesive paste over it in a thin layer. OUCH! but it worked at least part of the time.  If I can think of anything else I’ll let you know.  Of course it seems like most other people here on the NG have better luck with the length of time they can go before changing so maybe they can tell you more than I can.  I hope you can find an answer that really helps.  I know how aggravating it can get.  When I first got my ileostomy back in ‘81, I had to call the OT to come out and she knew that I had been having a lot of trouble.  When she came in I told her a joke and had her laughing.  She said that she thought I’d be in tears by the time she got there.  I told her I had passed the screaming and cursing stage a LONG time ago and was now past the ‘throwing stuff’ stage too.  So there was nothing left but laughing at it; otherwise I’d probably just go crazy (as in more than usual!).  Oh, one more thing.  When I used to go to the medical supply store, somebody was always there that could take me in a room and see what my current problem was so that they would have a better idea of what to suggest.  I don’t know if stores still do this though cause I’ve been getting my supplies from my home health care folks for years now. JMar54 <jma…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:19990814103907.07336.00001181@ng-fz1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just

itching

with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and I’ve tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find

the

answer be sure to post it.                              James

Response:

you might check to see if it contains any kind of latex and if u have a latex allergy like myself.  I didnt find out til almost dying in surgery.  I am 32 years old.  I use to have a urostomy but about 14  years ago I had an Indiana Pouch done.  never regretted it.  see ya Mike

Response:

JMar54 wrote in message <19990814103907.07336.00001…@ng-fz1.aol.com

… My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just

itching

with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and I’ve tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find

the

answer be sure to post it.                             James

James, See Earl’s advice about using Sween Cream–that is, after you see your ET to rule out possible fungal or allergy problems. Vince (I)

Response:

.  Sween Cream is very good for clearing up excoriated skin.  A

very small dab rubbed into the skin gently and all excess removed does the job. Earl (U)

I’ll back up Earl’s suggestion for Sween Cream.  I just plain itch, no matter what appliances I’ve tried or how dry I get.  (Living in Florida has a lot to do with it, I think.)  So I rub in a small amount of Sween Cream every time I change–helps keep the itching down a lot.  So if you rule out fungal and allergic problems, you might want to try it. Vince (I)

Response:

David and Lane covered things well.  You didn’t say what kind of appliance and anti-fungal you are using.  I assume you have switched around to experiment with different appliances and without the anti-fungal.  Is the skin red and excoriated? If it is not allergy, it could be fungus or yeast infection caused by bathing or showering just before changing – in other words, skin not dry.  Sween Cream is very good for clearing up excoriated skin.  A very small dab rubbed into the skin gently and all excess removed does the job. Earl (U) ————————Reply Separator—————————- On 8/13/99 8:07PM, in message <7p2tje$1g…@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net

, "Mick Neuman"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<mi…@earthlink.net

wrote: Help me!  My illiostomy bag is constantly itching me – not the bag, but the skin under the tape :) I think I may have a little fungus, but I doubt that’s the real problem. The itching seems to be all over, wherever the tape touches the skin. Anyway, I use an over-the-counter anti-fungal everytime I change bags, but it didn’t help.  Not this time, anyway. If anyone can help, I’d be very appreciative.  Thanks. Mick

Response:

My ostomy is almost two month old and I’m having the same problem. Just itching with little bumps under the tape. I put some of that powder on it and I’ve tried putting skin prep on it. Nothing has helped me so far. If you find the answer be sure to post it.                              James

Response:

If it is not fungal, you probably have an allergic reaction to either the tape or the wafer you are using, or possibly to any skin barrier or other substance you apply to your skin. If it is not these things, it could also be residue from the soap or shampoo you are using that gets underneath the tape (if so, switch to Dove or Ivory Soap and a no-tears shampoo, such as Johnson & Johnson baby shampoo). Such allergic skin reactions usually clear up very quickly after you get rid of what is causing the reaction. A lot of people are allergic to pink tape. If the itching is mostly under the area where you tape, switch to another tape. Micropore is a good alternative to pink tape. One way you can tell if it is the tape or not is just to stick a piece of the tape your are using on another part of your body and see if that areas starts itching after a few days. I no longer use tape, period. I’ve found that it is not needed. If the reaction is to your wafer, you need to switch brands.

Response:

Help me!  My illiostomy bag is constantly itching me – not the bag, but the skin under the tape :) I think I may have a little fungus, but I doubt that’s the real problem. The itching seems to be all over, wherever the tape touches the skin. Anyway, I use an over-the-counter anti-fungal everytime I change bags, but it didn’t help.  Not this time, anyway. If anyone can help, I’d be very appreciative.  Thanks. Mick

Response:

Mick, What was happening when the itching started?  A change, or new product, or, ? How old is your ostomy?  If by skin under the tape you mean a collar around the flange, the center of the wafer?  A collar that is white or tan in color?  If your wafers come with that collar, that could be the culprit. I know my skin is allergic to those, and I’ve read other posts here that say the same thing. If you are not having leaks and the back of the used wafer you take off at time of change confirms no leaking, it could well be your skin reacting to the product.  That itching usually means skin is allergic.  Do you have a sample of a wafer without the tape you can try?  What does your skin look like when the wafer is off?  The itching doesn’t necessarily mean you have a fungus.  Do you have an ET that can look at your skin? That itching is really agony.  There are many other suggestions, let’s see what comes up in the posts that sounds right to you.  If you have a different applicance you can try once, that may determine the source of this problem.  Good luck, Lane – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mick Neuman wrote in message <7p2tje$1g…@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net

… Help me!  My illiostomy bag is constantly itching me – not the bag, but the skin under the tape :) I think I may have a little fungus, but I doubt that’s the real problem. The itching seems to be all over, wherever the tape touches the skin. Anyway, I use an over-the-counter anti-fungal everytime I change bags, but it didn’t help.  Not this time, anyway. If anyone can help, I’d be very appreciative.  Thanks. Mick

Response:

Arthritis

Question:

About arthritis connection to allergies:   My mother had what was diagnosed as osteoarthritis.  Once she was determined to have food sensitivities, not allergies, most of her health problems diminished or disappeared, The arthritis, migranes, high BP, borderline diabetes, all diminished to the point of not needing monitoring once she eliminated mostly chemical additives, and a few foods from her diet.   I have my own story too.  I was on a cane, and in a lot of pain from about 21 to 23.  I figured I’d be in a wheelchair by 30.  After an orthopedic surgeon and an arthritis specialist, the only thing found was a slight erosion in one knee caused by general hyperextension of the joints ("double jointed").  Then, as a last resort, I went to a chiropractor, and I have next to no trouble with joint pain.   Not to dispute, but to add information, I wanted to tell of other causes of painful "arthritis" that have been for the most part "cured" by methods other than the "take two aspirin and call me in the morning" attitude. Maria  spi…@Rt66.com

Response:

In <4lso16$…@mack.rt66.com

spi…@Rt66.com (Maria) writes: About arthritis connection to allergies:  My mother had what was diagnosed as osteoarthritis.  Once she was determined to have food sensitivities, not allergies, most of her health problems diminished or disappeared, The arthritis, migranes, high BP, borderline diabetes, all diminished to the point of not needing monitoring once she eliminated mostly chemical additives, and a few foods from her diet.

[snip] My mother has terrible arthritis as well.  She found a diet that had her avoid red meat, black pepper, and msg among a few other things.   She improved immediately.  Unfortunately, I cannot remember the name of the book that had the basics of the diet and some very good recipes. As a general rule, avoiding salt, chemical additives, and anything that makes you feel ill will help preserve your health.

Response:

Extracted from "Nutrition Therapy" by Stephen J.Gislason MD… Arthritis Arthritis may be an allergic response to materials in the food supply.  Diet revision may be helpful in reducing the activity of inflammatory arthritis and in some instances may halt the progression of the disease. There are many patterns of arthritis. A group of related joint and connective disorders have been called rheumatic diseases. All these diseases are immune-mediated, and all are expressions of inflammation in connective tissues. Inflammation damages joints and surrounding tissues resulting in loss of function and deformities. Variations in the patterns of these diseases reflect the many possibilities for immune damage to disturb and distort structure and function. Severity ranges from mildly painful, chronic activity to drastic, disabling disease. Rheumatoid arthritis, often severe and disabling, is the dominant rheumatic disease which can attack all joints in the body. Rheumatoid arthritis is often considered to be an autoimmune disease. Our idea is that no disease is just internally generated and must involve outside contributions. Arthritis is often associated with inflammatory bowel disease. The mechanisms of food allergy link abnormal Gastrointestinal Tract (GIT) function with immune attacks on connective tissue. In all arthritic patients, normal GIT function should be rigorously sought by adaptive dietary adjustments. Simple allergic arthritis is a definite entity that is often not recognized as a food allergy. Typically, a dramatic, acute, and painful swelling develops in one or more joints asymmetrically. The joint inflammation is usually brought on by eating a food, either an unusual food eaten for the first time or sometimes a regular food eaten in excess. This presentation is similar to and often confused with gout. Any food can cause allergic arthritis. Staple foods such as milk, eggs, and wheat (rye, oats, barley), coffee, beef, pork,  and food additives are the most common food triggers. Carinini and Brostroff reviewed the concepts of and evidence for food-induced arthritis.  They stated: "Despite an increasing interest in food allergy and the conviction of innumerable patients with joint disease that certain foods exacerbate their symptoms, relatively little scientific attention has been paid to this relationship. Abnormalities of the gastrointestinal tract are commonly found in rheumatic disease…Support for an intestinal origin of antigens comes from studies of patients whose joint symptoms have improved on the avoidance of certain foods antigens, and become worse on consuming them. These have included patients with both intermittent symptoms, palindromic rheumatism and more chronic disease." In another study, 33 of 45 patients with rheumatoid arthritis improved significantly on a hypoallergenic diet. The authors concluded:   "Increasing numbers of scientific studies suggest that dietary manipulation may help at least some rheumatoid patients and perhaps the greatest need now is for more careful and well- designed research so that preconceptions may be put aside and role of diet, as a specific or even a non-specific adjunctive therapy, may be determined." Unfortunately, dairy products, wheat and its close relatives, oats, barley, and rye, have proved to be a major problem in the diets of our patients. There are many possible reasons for cereal grains to become pathogenic. Hypersensitivity mechanisms triggered by grain proteins,  collectively called "Gluten",  are the likely cause of the illnesses related to  intake of cereal grains. Gluten is a mixture of individual proteins classified in two groups, the Prolamines and the Glutelins. The prolamine fraction of gluten concerns us the most when grain intolerance is suspected. The prolamine, Gliadin, seems to be a problem in celiac disease; gliadin antibodies are  commonly found in the immune complexes associated with this disease.   Recently marketed grains, spelt and kamut, are wheat variants (despite claims to the contrary)  and are likely to cause problems similar to other wheat varieties.   A wheat gluten mechanism has been studied in rheumatoid arthritis patients. The clinical observation is that wheat ingestion is followed within hours by increased joint swelling and pain.   Little and his colleagues studied the mechanism, as it developed sequentially following gluten ingestion.  Dr. Parke and colleagues concurred with this explanation of the gut-arthritis link in their report of three patients with celiac disease and rheumatoid arthritis.  The mechanism involves several stages: GIT must be permeable to antigenic proteins or peptide fragments, derived from digested gluten.   The food antigens appear in the blood stream and are bound by a specific antibody (probably of IgA or IgG, not IgE class), forming an antigen-antibody complex, a circulating immune complex (CIC) The antigen-antibody complex then activates the rest of the immune response, beginning with the release of mediators – serotonin is released from the blood platelets. Serotonin release causes "symptoms" as it circulates in the blood stream and enhances the deposition of CICs in joint tissues. Once in the joint, the immune complexes activate complement, which in turn damages cells and activates inflammation. More inflammation results in more pain, swelling, stiffness, and loss of mobility. Arthritis is usually treated with salicylates or related anti-inflammatory drugs generally referred to as NSAIDs. These drugs alleviate the terrible pain of active arthritis but do not favorably affect the outcome of the disease. All anti-arthritic medication can produce asthma or chronic rhinitis and a variety of allergic skin rashes. Gastrointestinal surface irritation, bleeding, and ulceration are routine problems of anti-arthritic medication. The first attack of joint swelling and pain should be treated as an urgent problem to be solved. Inflammation may damage joints. Often NSAIDs and physiotherapy are the only treatments prescribed and inflammation is given every opportunity to ravage tissues. We have seen countless patients, just treated with NSAIDs, who progressed rapidly to a severe disabling disease, often with poor pain control. In unlucky patients, severe deformities of joints accumulate in the first few months of a severe attack. There is a   trend to recommend more aggressive treatments, using drugs that impair the immune response. The best drug is prednisone, but it is seldom used because it has long-term side effects which scare both physicians and patients. Prednisone is often a magic drug that relieves terrible pain and suffering often in the first 48 hours of therapy. Beyond prednisone, there is a grab bag of immune suppressant drugs to treat arthritis -chloroquine, penicillamine, gold  and methotrexate have emerged as the favored drug therapies.  All these drugs have impressive side effects and great potential for toxicity. Our preference is to try to stop the inflammatory activity as soon as possible with diet revision. All inflammation is likened to a fire. You get out the fire-extinguishers and go to work. No matter what pattern the immune attack assumes, our standard defense can be tried first. The Core Program method of diet revision is used. Food is replaced with an elemental nutrient formula, ENFood, for a clearing period of 10 to 20 days. Prednisone and/or NSAIDs are drug options during the clearing period and then the dosage is reduced   after pain and swelling have subsided.   Improvement is followed by slow food reintroduction (see Core Program). Each returning food is carefully screened for arthritis- triggering effects. You hope that food allergy caused the problem and that food control can be successful controlling the disease in the long- term. Nothing is lost by taking this approach and complete control of the disease can sometimes be obtained. If strict food control proves to be inadequate, then other drug treatments can be instituted.   Carinini C, Brostroff J. Gut and joint disease. Annals of Allergy 1985;55:624-625.   Darlington et al. Lancet Feb 1 1986;236-238.   Keiffer M et al. Wheat gliadin fractions and other cereal antigens reactive with antibodies in the sera of of celiac patients. Clin Exp Immunol 1982;50:651-60.   Little  C, Stewart AG, Fennesy MR. Platelet serotonin release in rheumatoid arthritis: a study in food intolerant patients. Lancet 1983;297-9.   Parke AI et al. Celiac disease and rheumatoid arthritis. Annals of Rheum Dis 1984;43:378-380.   Voorneveld CR, Rubin LA  Disease-modifying antirheumatic drugs: early use is better. Medicine North Amer. Oct 1991 3177-3184 1

Skin tests

Question:

How accurate are those skin tests that are used to determine what substances you are allergic to?

They don’t.  They determine what substances you *might* be allergic to.  They have so many false positives that you should never make any serious change in your lifestyle without corroboration from some other source (dietary experiment, blood test). On the other hand, they’re quick and cheap, so they’re a good way to spot problems with substances you’d never have thought of. If you have very serious allergic reactions you should not consider skin tests.  About one person every year dies of anaphylaxis in an allergist’s surgery somewhere as a result of them.  Nobody seems to be counting the number that need emergency adrenalin shots, CPR, tracheotomies or oxygen to pull them round, but presumably at least a hundred times as many.  (Any responsible allergist will have resuscitation gear on hand, and they have the great advantage over the A&E that they know exactly what happened).

I have a persistent rash for over 6 months and my doctor wants me to have one.

The timescale at least suggests the problem is not anaphylactic. Unfortunately it also suggests an IgG reaction, which skin tests don’t generally identify.  ELISA or RAST IgG blood tests are much more expensive. A very simple heuristic.  Perhaps 90% of all food-allergic skin rashes are produced by only three allergens: wheat, dairy products, and eggs. Cutting the lot out (totally) for a few weeks to see what happens is generally a good move if you have a chronic allergic-looking problem, whether or not you’ve got any test results to go on. There is a fundamental limitation on all allergy tests.  All of them produce a few percent of both false negatives and positives.  And mostly, people get tested for a lot of substances at once.  So nearly every test report will contain at least one totally wrong result.  If enough of them are right they’re still helpful, but you have to allow for the errors.  They’re best seen as a guide to setting up an elimination diet with planned reintroductions that will give you the real scoop. —

email to "jc" at this site: email to "jack"  or "bogus" will bounce <—

Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760 http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html  food intolerance data and recipes, freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources

Response:

How accurate are those skin tests that are used to determine what = substances you are allergic to? I have a persistent rash for over 6 months and my doctor wants me to = have one. Have anyone of you ever had a skin test and what were the = results?

I’ve had prick tests which very very unreliable (false positives and false negatives). I’ve also had patch tests for contact allergies, and this was very helpful (only one thing came up, but it scarred… and now I know what I need to avoid). A rash could be either a food allergy or a contact allergy. Good luck finding out what your trigger is. — Rosie "Damn. I just observed my potatoes, and their wave function collapsed." Matthew Webber 7/3/97

Response:

I had a skin test over twenty years ago, involving ninety different foods. Three foods reacted. To this day I am unable to eat or contact shrimp, lobster, or crab. That single test ended my career as a chef. I would have to say the test worked very well for me. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Gloria wrote: Hi everyone, This is the first time I am writing but I have been reading alot of your concerns about food allergies. Have a question. How accurate are those skin tests that are used to determine what substances you are allergic to? I have a persistent rash for over 6 months and my doctor wants me to have one. Have anyone of you ever had a skin test and what were the results? Thanks for any response.     Gloria

Response:

Fighting boredom

Question:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s

Thanks everyone. I have been somewhat stuck in a rut as far as food variety goes. My mainstays are- Breakfast: Oatmeal or Eggbeaters (fat free egg mixture) Meals: Fish or Chicken, occasional steak or pork steak. Veggies: Peas, green beans, Broccoli, Asparagus Fruit: Apples, strawberries, pineapple, prunes, cherries. I am eating other foods, but this is what I eat regularly. I’ve decided to re-start my ‘Schwans’ service. They have some really tasty lower fat meal items that I like. Their sweet & sour chicken with rice, and the beef & broccoli with rice are both delicious. One of my problems is I can’t exercise anymore due to back & knee problems. (car accident years ago) What I like to do though, is to take my dog Cassie to a park or field a couple times a week and explore the sights and (dog) smells. ;} Oh … and I gained 1.2 pounds this past week.  &^%#$   But I have an excuse for that. I stopped drinking coffee when I started my diet. But I missed it so much. French Vanilla or Hazelnut. Yummy. So I was bad and bought a small can of it. The problem is it always makes me retain a lot of water (weight.) Well, the coffee is now gone, finished it last night. So you just wait and see. Next week when I weigh in that extra weight will be gone…. ~~Phil~~ 260/239.2/180’s

Response:

Phil I like to use alot of onions and peppers to spice things up. Saute’ onions, mushrooms in some beef broth and top my steaks with that. Take chicken breast, mix taco seasoning and 1 tbl. of oil togethr rub on chicken breat and grill, dice up and put on top of a salad with grilled onions, mix 1/2 taco sauce and 1/2 ranch dressing. this makes a spicey salad. So try to cook in different ways. I usually grill all meat. Easier clean up. Egg beaters are better also if you cook about a 1/2 cup of o’brien hashbrowns with pam then pour egg beaters over them and make an omlet. Top with some taco sauce and ff cheese. Lori

Thanx.  I’m not real big on taco season/sauce, but the rest sounds interesting. ~~Phil~~ 260/236.2/180’s…6′2"

Response:

Phil I like to use alot of onions and peppers to spice things up. Saute’ onions, mushrooms in some beef broth and top my steaks with that. Take chicken breast, mix taco seasoning and 1 tbl. of oil togethr rub on chicken breat and grill, dice up and put on top of a salad with grilled onions, mix 1/2 taco sauce and 1/2 ranch dressing. this makes a spicey salad. So try to cook in different ways. I usually grill all meat. Easier clean up. Egg beaters are better also if you cook about a 1/2 cup of o’brien hashbrowns with pam then pour egg beaters over them and make an omlet. Top with some taco sauce and ff cheese. Lori ~ My mainstays are- Breakfast: Oatmeal or Eggbeaters (fat free egg mixture) Meals: Fish or Chicken, occasional steak or pork steak. Veggies: Peas, green beans, Broccoli, Asparagus Fruit: Apples, strawberries, pineapple, prunes, cherries.

– Message posted via http://www.weightadviser.com

Response:

… snipped … Oh … and I gained 1.2 pounds this past week.  &^%#$   But I have an excuse for that. I stopped drinking coffee when I started my diet. But I missed it so much. French Vanilla or Hazelnut. Yummy. So I was bad and bought a small can of it. The problem is it always makes me retain a lot of water (weight.) Well, the coffee is now gone, finished it last night. So you just wait and see. Next week when I weigh in that extra weight will be gone…. ~~Phil~~ 260/239.2/180’s

I knew that coffee had done me in ;)   One week later after the coffee ran out, and watching what I eat I recorded a loss of three pounds for the week. Ahh, but I miss it so :( ~~Phil~~ 260/236.2/180’s

Response:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going?

    My weight loss has also slowed, but I keep reminding myself that it isn’t the grade but the direction of the curve that matters.  I also find myself eating the same things over and over again.  But I remind myself that my diet wasn’t that varied in the old days, either.  After work I would hit one of about 4 or 5 fast food places, and usually make similar choices at each one.      Losing weight is hard, at least for me.  I don’t like the process of dieting at all.  But I have decided the rewards of doing so make up for the hassle of going through the whole thing. — Annie As of 9-09-05: 258/211/140  Standing at 5 foot 4. 47 pounds lost.  71 left to go.  Started February/07/05 Come visit my weight-loss web site, Annie Takes Off. http://webpages.charter.net/lenny13/DietFrontPage.html

Response:

Phil, I LOVE coffee and I drink a LOT and my favorite is hazel-nut ! It has NO cals and for me, it makes me lose fluid:) I CAN NEVER go with no coffee or I’ll NOT stay with my program! Hey, THIS may be WHY you are bored ? <G I LOVE this feeling of control over food! I FEEL this power and I can’t wait to get up each morning. Oh, and it is day 5 for me:) glo

Response:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s

I just went crazy on the Internet finding new recipes.  Go to Epicurious and search for Thai beef and asparagus and chicken with radicchio and endive. Right now I’m eating Vietnamese grilled chicken from that site with Chinese vegetables and rice. I’m going to try some Indonesian satays and dendeng pedas (sp?). I make a five or six serving batch and pack it all week. Here’s my list of recipes tried & true, or newly discovered and some untried.  They’re not all on the Internet but a lot are. Main dishes 1.     Arni Souvlaki (Greek) 1 2.     Beef and prune Tsimmes (Jewish) 1 3.     Beef Bourguignon (French) 1 4.     Beef pulgoki (Korean) 2 5.     Beef ragout (Hungarian) 2 6.     Bibam bap (Korean) 3 7.     Brisket in wine sauce (Jewish) 3 8.     Broiled salmon. 3 9.     Brunswick stew.. 4 10.       Bubble-and-squeak (English) 4 11.       Cassoulet (French) 4 12.       Chicken cacciatore (Italian) 4 13.       Chicken hamin (Jewish Mediterranean) 5 14.       Chicken Marengo (French/Italian) 5 15.       Chicken Marsala (French/Italian) 5 16.       Chicken nuggets a la Emeril (Cajun) 5 17.       Chicken Paprika (Hungarian) 6 18.       Chili (Mexican) 6 19.       China Chilo. 6 20.       Cholent (Jewish NE European) 7 21.       Chops. 7 22.       Collops. 7 23.       Combo cake (Tanzanian) 7 24.       Coq au vin (French) 7 25.       Cottage pie (English) 8 26.       Crockpot beans (Dutch) 8 27.       Croquettes. 9 28.       Curried beef with asparagus (Thai) 9 29.       Curried fish (Kenya) 10 30.       Curried game hens (Thai) 10 31.       Dendeng pedas (Indonesian) 10 32.       Doro wat (Ethiopian) 11 33.       Eggplant and linguine (Italian) 11 34.       Eggs foo yung (Chinese) 11 35.       Empanadas (South American) 11 36.       Filet mignon (French) 13 37.       Fricandeau. 13 38.       Fricassee (French) 13 39.       Fried chicken "like the Colonel’s". 14 40.       Frittatta (Italian) 14 41.       Galuptsi/Holishkes (Polish) 14 42.       General Tso’s chicken (Chinese) 15 43.       Generic Chinese stir fry. 15 44.       Glazed chicken with endive and radicchio. 15 45.       Goulash (Hungarian) 16 46.       Green goose. 17 47.       Grilled five-spice chicken (Vietnamese) 17 48.       Herbed poultry (French) 18 49.       Hush puppy fried fish. 18 50.       India style chicken. 18 51.       India style chili (Yamuna Devi) 18 52.       Irish stew.. 18 53.       Jambalaya (Cajun) 18 54.       Jollof rice and chicken (Gambia) 19 55.       Jollof rice and lamb (Mali) 19 56.       Kentumera (Ghana) 19 57.       Kielbasa and sauerkraut (Polish) 19 58.       Lamb and lentils (Mediterranean) 19 59.       Lamb tagine with artichokes (Morocco) 20 60.       Lamb tsimmes (Jewish) 20 61.       Lasagna Bolognese. 20 62.       London broil 21 63.       Mackerel 21 64.       Meat and cassava bake (Puerto Rico) 21 65.       Meatloaf (American) 21 66.       Moo goo gai pan (Chinese) 21 67.       Moussaka (Mediterranean) 21 68.       New England boiled dinner 22 69.       Omelet 22 70.       Orange duck (French) 22 71.       Paella (Spanish) 23 72.       Pepper steak (Chinese) 24 73.       Pizza (Italian) 24 74.       Poached salmon and vegetables with aioli (French) 24 75.       Pot roast 25 76.       Quiche (French) 25 77.       Rissoles. 25 78.       Salisbury steak. 26 79.       Salmagundy (English) 26 80.       Samak mashi (Egyptian) 27 81.       Satay (Indonesian) 27 82.       Sauerbraten (German) 27 83.       Shepherd’s pie. 28 84.       Shireen polo (Persian) 28 85.       Smoked turkey hash. 29 86.       Smothered chicken (Cajun) 29 87.       Smothered liver 30 88.       Steak pie (English) 30 89.       Swordfish. 30 90.       Tempura (Japanese) 30 91.       Toad-in-the-hole (English) 33 92.       Tofu stir fry. 34 93.       Tuna noodle casserole (American) 34 94.       Tuna salad (American) 34 95.       Italian turkey and pasta. 34 96.       Veal paprika (Hungarian) 34 97.       Vegetable biryani (South Africa) 35 98.       Vol au vent 35 99.       Yassa (Senegal) 35 100.     Ziti without baking (Italian) 35 Soups. 35 101.     Banh Pho Bo (Vietnamese) 35 102.     Borscht (Ukraine) 36 103.     Chicken corn chowder (American) 37 104.     Cock-a-leekie (Scotland) 37 105.     Gaspacho (Spain) 37 106.     Gumbo (Cajun) 38 107.     Kharcho (Georgia, former USSR) 38 108.     Manhattan fish chowder 38 109.     Minestrone (Italian) 38 110.     Mulligatawney. 38 111.     New England fish chowder 39 112.     Peanut soup (Ghana) 39 113.     Pot au feu (French) 39 114.     Red curry soup with chicken (Thai) 39 115.     Vegetable soup with fennel bulb base. 40 116.     Vegetable soup with millet 40 117.     Vegetable soup with whole grains and legumes (Yamuna Devi) 40 118.     White soup. 40 Sides, Snacks and Seasonings. 41 119.     Baklava (Mediterranean) 41 120.     Banana bread. 41 121.     Barbecue sauce. 42 122.     Basic pie dough (American) 42 123.     Bechamel (French) 42 124.     Berbere (Ethiopian) 42 125.     Black beans and rice (Cajun) 42 126.     Blancmange. 43 127.     Bouquet garni 43 128.     Brownies. 43 129.     Butterscotch (See Toffee) 44 130.     Carmelized sugar 44 131.     Charlotte Russe. 44 132.     Cheesecake. 44 133.     Chocolate souffle. 45 134.     Chow chow.. 45 135.     Colcannon (Irish) 45 136.     Coleslaw (American) 46 137.     Couscous (Mediterranean) 46 138.     Crumpets (English) 46 139.     Devonshire scones (English) 46 140.     Dirty rice (Cajun) 46 141.     Dumplings. 46 142.     Egg rolls (Chinese) 47 143.     Emeril’s mix (Cajun) 47 144.     English muffin. 47 145.     English tea cake. 48 146.     Forcemeat 49 147.     Fried green tomatoes. 49 148.     Fried rice (Chinese) 49 149.     Fritters. 50 150.     Fruitcake. 50 151.     Fruit compote. 50 152.     Green goddess dressing. 50 153.     Hamantaschen (Jewish) 51 154.     Hash browns (American) 51 155.     Hasty pudding. 51 156.     Home fries (American) 51 157.     Honey cake (Jewish) 51 158.     Hoppin’ John (American) 52 159.     Hush puppies (American) 52 160.     Irish penny buns. 52 161.     Johnny cake. 52 162.     Kasha (Russian) 52 163.     Kedgeree (Kichri, India) 53 164.     Kreplach/Wonton/Ravioli 53 165.     Macaroni and cheese (Italian) 53 166.     Madeleines (French) 53 167.     Maki (Japanese) 53 168.     Mamaliga (Rumanian) 53 169.     Mandelbrot (Jewish) 53 170.     Maquechou (Cajun) 54 171.     Marinara sauce (Italian) 54 172.     Matzo brie (Jewish) 55 173.     Mayonnaise. 55 174.     Mince meat 55 175.     Mixed greens (Yamuna Devi) 56 176.     Oat scones. 56 177.     Onigiri (Japanese) 56 178.     Pesto (Italian) 57 179.     Piccalilli 57 180.     Pittsburgh sticky buns. 57 181.     Plum pudding. 57 182.     Potato salad (American) 58 183.     Potato salad (German) 58 184.     Potstickers (Chinese) 58 185.     Poultry stuffing. 58 186.     Pumpernickel bread. 58 187.     Ragu sauce (Italian) 59 188.     Ratatouille (French/Italian) 59 189.     Ravioli/Kreplach/Wonton. 59 190.     Red beans and rice (Cajun) 59 191.     Red cabbage. 59 192.     Remoulade. 59 193.     Rice pilaf 60 194.     Risotto (Italian) 60 195.     Roasted vegetables a la Emeril (Cajun) 60 196.     Rye bread. 61 197.     Scotch eggs. 61 198.     Scrapple. 61 199.     Seedcake (English) 62 200.     Shortbread (Scotland) 62 201.     Snack mix. 62 202.     Snowball cookies. 62 203.     Soda bread. 62 204.     Soy Lime Dipping Sauce (for Grilled Five Spice Chicken) 63 205.     Strudel (Jewish) 63 206.     Syllabub. 63 207.     Tapioca pudding. 64 208.     Tea sandwiches (English) 64 209.     Tipsy cake. 64 210.     Toffee/Butterscotch. 65 211.     Tomato and cabbage (American) 65 212.     Victorian puff pastry. 65 213.     Vol au vent 65 214.     Welsh brach. 65 215.     Welsh tea cakes. 66 216.     White bread. 66 217.     White sauce. 66 218.     Whole wheat bread. 67 219.     Wonton/Ravioli/Kreplach. 67 220.     Yorkshire pudding. 67

Response:

It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( For me variety starts at the grocery store.  

The honeymoon with Costco is over! It’s back to the extravagence of Whole Foods to enjoy the above. Reason: Costco stuff is good value fir mney but it’s not pure enogh for my jittery digestive system.. I tried their Golden Boy brand dried prunes and developed an itchy underwarm swelling that was scary. Then I read the prune label. "Contains Potassium Sorbate" ( which can provoke allergic skin reactions. The coconut from Loblaws contained sulphites. All this time I thought my immune system could now tolerate the likes of these but recall i got better from avoiding them. — Diva ***** Discipline is Liberation

Response:

It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :(

For me variety starts at the grocery store.  Walk around the butcher section and green grocer section. Look carefully at the displays you usually ignore. Anything you haven’t tried ever or haven’t tried in years, so long as it is on-plan, buy some today and try it. Have you only had beef and chicken for a long time? Then get and roast a duck or have lamb chops or whatever.  Have you stuck with brocolli and potatoes for months?  Time to have jicama, rabe, rutabagas and any other veggie.  If you aren’t even sure what a mango is, today is the day to find out. Each trip to the grocery try several new items. Each day at dinner try one of them. How do you keep your enthusiasm going?

I don’t.  I face the fact that if I go back to eating the way that got me fat I’ll be fat again.  What choice do I have but to stay on plan. Here’s a saying about courage that you’ve probably heard before: Lack of fear isn’t courage.  Being afraid and acting anyways is courage. My variation is about patience:  Lack of frustration is not patience.  Being frustrated and staying on plan anyways is patience.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s Some of us seem to never tire of the same foods.  I probably eat the same thing for breakfast 95% of the time<g  How about trying some new recipes, different fruits or veggies, etc. Another way to keep the enthusiasm going is to switch your attention to a non-weight oriented goal.  One of my goals this year was to increase my biking miles, ride a couple centuries (one metric, one miles), do different types of exercises, etc.  These were all non-food goals but still help with maintaining my weight loss. Beverly

Amen to all that, Beverly! I eat pretty much the same thing every day during the work week–it’s easier that way. Weekends are "free," within reason, of course. What has worked best for me during my "stuck in a rut" periods is trying something new, or setting a new goal. Last winter it was snowshoeing–I loved it! This summer it was learning to run, and competing in a 5K. I learned to love running as well–as long as I do it in the company of others. I still hate running by myself. So, Phil, give something new a try–whether it be food or exercise or knitting–or set yourself a mini-goal. It’ll help you get out of whatever rut you may be in. Good luck! Amy 168120117 (yup–been backsliding…)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s Some of us seem to never tire of the same foods.  I probably eat the same thing for breakfast 95% of the time<g  How about trying some new recipes, different fruits or veggies, etc.

Since I joined Costrco and buy larege amounts of the same foods, i simply prepare then differently. — Diva ***** Discipline is Liberation

Response:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s

why don’t you try cooking something you know you enjoy? you said you liked pizza and hamburgers. so why don’t you make your own pizza from scratch, or make mini pizzas on english muffins with a salad on the side, or buy some kind of pre-made whole grain pizza crust? you can control the amount of cheese, which could be low moisture part-skim. or marinara with just sprinkled parmesan, etc. if you are LC you could just use something else for the base, like zucchini. make a zucchini-mozzerella–marinara–garlic casserole. this is what i chose to do for pad thai this week– i had a craving and so i looked up a recipe and made it myself, controlling both the oil used and my portion size. for the hamburger, you could by extra-lean beef and make yourself one small hamburger, either on whole-grain bread or on top of a salad. or you could just get a small hamburger once a week or something out, but not with fries or cheese on it. you know, just let yourself breathe a little. like someone said, by a healthy cookbook (one that serves the health-conscious community. sometimes vegetarian ones are good, and you can usually add meat to those dishes).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s Some of us seem to never tire of the same foods.  I probably eat the same thing for breakfast 95% of the time<g  How about trying some new recipes, different fruits or veggies, etc. Another way to keep the enthusiasm going is to switch your attention to a non-weight oriented goal.  One of my goals this year was to increase my biking miles, ride a couple centuries (one metric, one miles), do different types of exercises, etc.  These were all non-food goals but still help with maintaining my weight loss. Beverly

I agree with Beverly on both points.  The non-food goals provide their own motivation.  And I also enjoy a lot of the same foods on a regular basis.  (I just today heard someone quote a statistic — of course I don’t know if it’s true — that said that the average American eats only 25 different foods on a regular basis.)   However, I also agree with what Gloria said about eating everything, but not to excess.  I don’t like the idea of making anything off-limits.  But if I am craving pizza I’ll have only 1 or 2 slices, not a whole pizza.  Or if I were craving a Big Mac (something that never actually occurs), I might instead have a small MacDonalds hamburger.  I also eat healthier facsimiles of foods I might have previously over-indulged in — like I make turkey burgers rather than eating restaurant hamburgers.   There are plenty of healthy foods you can eat; you don’t have to eat the same things over and over.  Look for a good cookbook or two. Chris 262/130s/130s started dieting July 2002, maintaining since June 2004

Response:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s

Some of us seem to never tire of the same foods.  I probably eat the same thing for breakfast 95% of the time<g  How about trying some new recipes, different fruits or veggies, etc. Another way to keep the enthusiasm going is to switch your attention to a non-weight oriented goal.  One of my goals this year was to increase my biking miles, ride a couple centuries (one metric, one miles), do different types of exercises, etc.  These were all non-food goals but still help with maintaining my weight loss. Beverly

Response:

For me, I eat WHATEVER I want but in very small portions! I NEED to taste FOOD but not very much food! Also I do some GOOD stuff for me! I paint and I draw:) I look at my FAT pics! THIS REALLY helps me to STAY with my program which IS only 3 days so days! But I’m DOING THIS! and I LOVE losing! IT FEELS GOOD!!! YOU have lost VERY WELL !!!!! Congrats to you, Phil !! glo

Response:

How about eating a large juciy 22oz steak with mashed papattoes, sour cream and butter…  You won’t feel bored any longer… instead..you will feel ridden with guillt. Maybe being down 22 pounds and feeling bored aint such a bad thing…

Response:

Hello: It has been about 3 1/2 months now. I’m down 22 pounds. That’s the good news. The downside is I feel like I’m eating the same foods week after week. And my weight loss has really slowed in the past month.  :( How do you keep your enthusiasm going? ~~Phil~~ 280 Peak high. 260/238/180’s

Response:

CAT FOOD CHALLENGE <G>

Question:

Are you thinking of the Monsanto study on dogs done in the 50s or something else?  I’ve *read* that that was the only study showing no problems, but that the methods were seriously flawed, but I don’t actually know if that is true or not.  Any ideas?  

Actually, I was referring to the fact that in order to be used in foods, it had to undergo some sort of testing.  And that, in all the literature searches that the FDA did, the only thing that they could find is that it is possibly carcinogenic in mice when fed at 23,000 times the recommended level.  Which, to be honest, almost anything is (not necessarily carcinogenic, but it’s not good for you!)  And that there is unusual pigmentation deposits in the liver of lactating bitches (who were eating 2-3 times the normal amount of food because of the lactation.)  Although there is no evidence that that is either harmful or irreversible, the FDA decided to use it to ask the pet food manufacturers to lower the level in the food voluntarily.  But, if the chemical DOES cause all the side-effects that have been reported anecdotally, you would think that there would be a study showing this somewhere.  According to the anecdotal evidence, the effect is so bad that it wouldn’t take a very big or very long study to show it.  Yet there hasn’t been one yet that does. Rebecca

Response:

Are you thinking of the Monsanto study on dogs done in the 50s or something else?  I’ve *read* that that was the only study showing no problems, but that the methods were seriously flawed, but I don’t actually know if that is true or not.  Any ideas?    There are risks everywhere in life, and some people are willing to take the risks.  Especially since there aren’t any studies proving that it’s bad, and there are some showing that it isn’t. Rebecca

–                 Stop animal abuse. Start here.

Dangers of a common cat food preservative

Question:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look.

Ethoxyquin danger has been known in the dog world for some time. It causes liver lesions and possibly death depending on severity. It is why Ethoxyquin has been banned in human food in Australia for some years now. If you want pet food without it, IAMS makes it for Australia in America without Ethoxyquin. — Remove the anti-spammer stuff

Response:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look. Dr. David A. Dzanis Veterinary Nutritionist Div. of Animal Feeds; FDA HFV-222 7500 Standish Place Rockville, MD 20855 Dear Dr. Dzanis: I am writing to you about the dangers of Ethoxyquin used as a preservative in many pet foods and human foods. Since you are responsible for pet food issues within the FDA and will be meeting with two concerned dog breeders next month concerning the safety of this chemical, I wish to present my own experiences and knowledge of Ethoxyquin’s toxic affects, first hand. First of all, let me introduce myself; I am a veterinarian, a graduate from the University of Calif. Veterinary Medical School, Davis, California, class of 1960. I had a small animal practice in San Ramon, California (a rapidly growing area east of San Francisco) for 31 years and am now retired.  During those many years I saw a change emerging in the disease and illness of animals presented to me. In the early 1960s, our concerns were primarily those of infectious agents causing Canine Distemper, Feline Distemper, Hepatitis, Leptospirosis, staph and strep infections, etc. However during the 1970s and to the present time we are seeing an epidemic of chronic degenerative diseases.  True, the widely accepted program of preventative vaccination programs virtually wiped out the viral caused diseases and antibiotics helped stem the bacterial infections, but something else is operative here.  We are now seeing both in the animal and human populations, a sharing of chronic degenerative diseases such as generalized allergies, arthritis, dermatitis, congestive heart failure, kidney failure, liver pathologies, diabetes, AIDS, tumors and cancer.  Also, lifespans of animals have shortened during this period. I remember, as a kid growing up in Nevada seeing Basque sheep herders with working dogs living to be 20-25 years of age.  These dogs were still herding sheep at that age, and the bitches were delivering litters of healthy puppies at 20 years of age! Today we are lucky to find dogs living to be 10 years old, and may of these suffering from various forms of chronic degenerative disease. Of course in the 1940s our air, water and food was clean and virtually free of chemicals.  My shepherd friend’s dogs worked in clean air, ate fresh lamb stew and vegetables and home-baked bread along with his master.  As a dog show veterinarian I have hear many judges say there is a definite difference to the feel of the muscles and skeleton of dogs in Australia than those of America. The Australian dogs’ muscles are firm, bones firm and strong compared to the mushy feel of the American dogs.  Why?  Because these animals’ diets are vastly different. The Australian dogs were being fed (until recently — now there is an emergence of commercial pet food) trimmings from the freshly killed beef and sheep carcasses, vegetables and fresh grains, ours on commercial kibble and canned dog food with every chemical residue and preservative and coloring in the book!  And forget all the highly touted advertising and P.R. by the pet food industry–I say put garbage in–get garbage out!  In the good old days, the family pet ate from the same "pot" so to speak, as the owner/family did, and were healthier for it.  Not only are chronic degenerative diseases of pets on the increase, but breeders complain of increasing frequency and numbers of reproductive problems: irregular estrus cycles, missed conceptions, stillborns, "fading puppy" syndrome, increased neonatal deaths and malformed puppies with missing limbs, organs, hydrocephalus, cleft palates, etc. Historically, I was first alterted to Ethoxyquin’s (heretofore being referred to as "E") possible health hazard to dogs, when Midge Harmer, a breeder of German Shepherd show and obedience dogs in Newark, Deleware contacted me on February 12, 1988. She related her hearbreaking experience of losing four of her young champions to liver cancer.  Since she had changed nothing in her program of rearing these dogs except switching their diet to feeding ANF (Advanced Nutritional Formula), she looked into the ingredients and found "E" as a preservative.  She asked me if I had any experience with this preservative and its affect on animal health. Thus started a four-year quest into finding out all we could on this chemical.  I hadn’t any knowledge about "E" or its related toxic affects to animal health until I started looking into it. I next met a breeder at the Golden Gate Dog Show in San Francisco that same year. She told me of suddenly developing 82% mortality in her puppies (Min. Pinchers, and Boston Terriers). Out of 27 puppies born she was lucky to save 5. Many others were stillborn and malformed with cleft palates, and hydrocephalus.  These problems were atypical.  She had not changed any variables (including breeding stock) except for changing the diet to ANF because of the highly favorable advertising put out by the manufacturers. I contacted the Dept. of Agriculture for toxicology information on "E."  They sent me a copy from their Farm Chemical Handbook listing "E" as a pesticide, used in fruit scald control. It is also used as a rubber preservative. I have since learned "E" is FDA approved for use as an antioxidant for carotenes vitamin A and E and the prevention of the development of organic peroxides.  It is approved at 550 ppm in paprika and chili powder, and because it is used as a preservative in livestock feed, the following residue alowances in human consumed animal products as follows 5 ppm in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals except poultry; 3 ppm in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry, 0.5 ppm in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals, 0.5 ppm in poultry eggs, and zero in milk. We have learned "E" is used as a preservative in such widely marketed dog foods as ANF, Eagle Dog Food, NutriMax, Hills Prescription Diet W/D, K/D, Nutro, Purina, IAMS, Royal Canine USA; and in livestock feeds by Willowbrook Mills in Petaluma to preserve Lay Crumbles for laying chickens, and dehydrated forage crops of alfalfa, barley, clovers, corn, oats, wheat, fescue and various grasses.  The above information brings up the question why the FDA allows such a small amount of "E" residue (5 to .5 ppm) in human consumed foods yet allows such high amounts (150 ppm) to be used in pet food and livestock feeds?  In the case of the dog, pound for pound, a dog weighs 1/5 to 1/10th the weight of a human (except for giant breeds of dogs) yet is consuming 300 times more "E" than allowed for people. Also many dog food manufacturers are not listing "E" as an ingredient on the packaging. Only under extensive investigation will they admit it. Isn’t there an FDA regulation about labeling ingredients?  Truth in labeling is another issue–ANF, which incidentially is one of the most expensive dog foods, is touted by the manufacturer as an "all natural formula" with no preservatives, yet lists "E" as an antioxidant which they claim to be quite safe. Correspondence with various people revealed other dog owners/breeders having sad experinces with pets eating "E" preserved dog food: 1.  A breeder of Rottweilers lost a dog with liver cancer after switching to feeding ANF for 6 months. 2.  A German Shepherd breeder lost a stud dog to cancer of the mouth, feeding dog food containing "E." 3.  A woman had skin allergies develop in her German Shepherd fed on NutroMax ("E" preserved) and then switched to Solid Gold (no "E") with the dermatitis allergy disappearing. 4.  Dr. Pia Peters, Ph.D. claims that when she was studying in Ireland for her degree in agriculture (1983-84) she became interested in a news story relating that farmers in Italy suddenly had calves born with eyes on the backs of their heads, no ears, two or three legs only, or legs developing turned backwards, etc. Dr. Peters claims that the culprit was "E" in the animal feed fed to the breeding stock. 5.  A breeder first of Poodles, then Collies, had been free of whelping problems; her bitches came into estrus every 6 months "like clockwork," and all whelped normal healthy litters, then a few years ago she began noticing changes in their overall appearance.  She was now seeing dry, lusterless coats, flaky skin, and nose pigementation fading. A friend of her who raises Labradors, Newfoundlands, Collies and Old English Sheep dogs, had similar problems. Then Elaine’s Blue Merle stud dog (sire of all her dogs) began drooling and bleeding from the mouth. From a biopsy, her veterinarian diagnosed an immune breakdown triggered by a virus or chemical.  Her bitches who had not previously come into estrus were now delivering litters of malformed puppies: two were born without legs, tails or sex organs.  The problems in these two kennels were traced to a change in diet fed the dogs, from one free of "E" preservative to a dog food with "E" preservative. 6.  Another German Shepherd breeder in Pennsylvania lost a puppy fed Pro Plan ("E" preserved) to a fast growing cancer in both hips. Some of the damning information on "E" comes from Monsanto’s own cautionary warnings in using and handling this product. They warn that it may cause allergic skin reactions, irritation to the eyes and skin. They advise that workers must wear eye and respiratory protection.  The container of "E" has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters. "E" is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220). Monsanto further states the disclaimer regarding the use of "E," that "Although … read more »

Response:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look.

Ethoxyquin danger has been known in the dog world for some time. It causes liver lesions and possibly death depending on severity. It is why Ethoxyquin has been banned in human food in Australia for some years now. If you want pet food without it, IAMS makes it for Australia in America without Ethoxyquin. — Remove the anti-spammer stuff

Response:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look. Dr. David A. Dzanis Veterinary Nutritionist Div. of Animal Feeds; FDA HFV-222 7500 Standish Place Rockville, MD 20855 Dear Dr. Dzanis: I am writing to you about the dangers of Ethoxyquin used as a preservative in many pet foods and human foods. Since you are responsible for pet food issues within the FDA and will be meeting with two concerned dog breeders next month concerning the safety of this chemical, I wish to present my own experiences and knowledge of Ethoxyquin’s toxic affects, first hand. First of all, let me introduce myself; I am a veterinarian, a graduate from the University of Calif. Veterinary Medical School, Davis, California, class of 1960. I had a small animal practice in San Ramon, California (a rapidly growing area east of San Francisco) for 31 years and am now retired.  During those many years I saw a change emerging in the disease and illness of animals presented to me. In the early 1960s, our concerns were primarily those of infectious agents causing Canine Distemper, Feline Distemper, Hepatitis, Leptospirosis, staph and strep infections, etc. However during the 1970s and to the present time we are seeing an epidemic of chronic degenerative diseases.  True, the widely accepted program of preventative vaccination programs virtually wiped out the viral caused diseases and antibiotics helped stem the bacterial infections, but something else is operative here.  We are now seeing both in the animal and human populations, a sharing of chronic degenerative diseases such as generalized allergies, arthritis, dermatitis, congestive heart failure, kidney failure, liver pathologies, diabetes, AIDS, tumors and cancer.  Also, lifespans of animals have shortened during this period. I remember, as a kid growing up in Nevada seeing Basque sheep herders with working dogs living to be 20-25 years of age.  These dogs were still herding sheep at that age, and the bitches were delivering litters of healthy puppies at 20 years of age! Today we are lucky to find dogs living to be 10 years old, and may of these suffering from various forms of chronic degenerative disease. Of course in the 1940s our air, water and food was clean and virtually free of chemicals.  My shepherd friend’s dogs worked in clean air, ate fresh lamb stew and vegetables and home-baked bread along with his master.  As a dog show veterinarian I have hear many judges say there is a definite difference to the feel of the muscles and skeleton of dogs in Australia than those of America. The Australian dogs’ muscles are firm, bones firm and strong compared to the mushy feel of the American dogs.  Why?  Because these animals’ diets are vastly different. The Australian dogs were being fed (until recently — now there is an emergence of commercial pet food) trimmings from the freshly killed beef and sheep carcasses, vegetables and fresh grains, ours on commercial kibble and canned dog food with every chemical residue and preservative and coloring in the book!  And forget all the highly touted advertising and P.R. by the pet food industry–I say put garbage in–get garbage out!  In the good old days, the family pet ate from the same "pot" so to speak, as the owner/family did, and were healthier for it.  Not only are chronic degenerative diseases of pets on the increase, but breeders complain of increasing frequency and numbers of reproductive problems: irregular estrus cycles, missed conceptions, stillborns, "fading puppy" syndrome, increased neonatal deaths and malformed puppies with missing limbs, organs, hydrocephalus, cleft palates, etc. Historically, I was first alterted to Ethoxyquin’s (heretofore being referred to as "E") possible health hazard to dogs, when Midge Harmer, a breeder of German Shepherd show and obedience dogs in Newark, Deleware contacted me on February 12, 1988. She related her hearbreaking experience of losing four of her young champions to liver cancer.  Since she had changed nothing in her program of rearing these dogs except switching their diet to feeding ANF (Advanced Nutritional Formula), she looked into the ingredients and found "E" as a preservative.  She asked me if I had any experience with this preservative and its affect on animal health. Thus started a four-year quest into finding out all we could on this chemical.  I hadn’t any knowledge about "E" or its related toxic affects to animal health until I started looking into it. I next met a breeder at the Golden Gate Dog Show in San Francisco that same year. She told me of suddenly developing 82% mortality in her puppies (Min. Pinchers, and Boston Terriers). Out of 27 puppies born she was lucky to save 5. Many others were stillborn and malformed with cleft palates, and hydrocephalus.  These problems were atypical.  She had not changed any variables (including breeding stock) except for changing the diet to ANF because of the highly favorable advertising put out by the manufacturers. I contacted the Dept. of Agriculture for toxicology information on "E."  They sent me a copy from their Farm Chemical Handbook listing "E" as a pesticide, used in fruit scald control. It is also used as a rubber preservative. I have since learned "E" is FDA approved for use as an antioxidant for carotenes vitamin A and E and the prevention of the development of organic peroxides.  It is approved at 550 ppm in paprika and chili powder, and because it is used as a preservative in livestock feed, the following residue alowances in human consumed animal products as follows 5 ppm in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals except poultry; 3 ppm in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry, 0.5 ppm in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals, 0.5 ppm in poultry eggs, and zero in milk. We have learned "E" is used as a preservative in such widely marketed dog foods as ANF, Eagle Dog Food, NutriMax, Hills Prescription Diet W/D, K/D, Nutro, Purina, IAMS, Royal Canine USA; and in livestock feeds by Willowbrook Mills in Petaluma to preserve Lay Crumbles for laying chickens, and dehydrated forage crops of alfalfa, barley, clovers, corn, oats, wheat, fescue and various grasses.  The above information brings up the question why the FDA allows such a small amount of "E" residue (5 to .5 ppm) in human consumed foods yet allows such high amounts (150 ppm) to be used in pet food and livestock feeds?  In the case of the dog, pound for pound, a dog weighs 1/5 to 1/10th the weight of a human (except for giant breeds of dogs) yet is consuming 300 times more "E" than allowed for people. Also many dog food manufacturers are not listing "E" as an ingredient on the packaging. Only under extensive investigation will they admit it. Isn’t there an FDA regulation about labeling ingredients?  Truth in labeling is another issue–ANF, which incidentially is one of the most expensive dog foods, is touted by the manufacturer as an "all natural formula" with no preservatives, yet lists "E" as an antioxidant which they claim to be quite safe. Correspondence with various people revealed other dog owners/breeders having sad experinces with pets eating "E" preserved dog food: 1.  A breeder of Rottweilers lost a dog with liver cancer after switching to feeding ANF for 6 months. 2.  A German Shepherd breeder lost a stud dog to cancer of the mouth, feeding dog food containing "E." 3.  A woman had skin allergies develop in her German Shepherd fed on NutroMax ("E" preserved) and then switched to Solid Gold (no "E") with the dermatitis allergy disappearing. 4.  Dr. Pia Peters, Ph.D. claims that when she was studying in Ireland for her degree in agriculture (1983-84) she became interested in a news story relating that farmers in Italy suddenly had calves born with eyes on the backs of their heads, no ears, two or three legs only, or legs developing turned backwards, etc. Dr. Peters claims that the culprit was "E" in the animal feed fed to the breeding stock. 5.  A breeder first of Poodles, then Collies, had been free of whelping problems; her bitches came into estrus every 6 months "like clockwork," and all whelped normal healthy litters, then a few years ago she began noticing changes in their overall appearance.  She was now seeing dry, lusterless coats, flaky skin, and nose pigementation fading. A friend of her who raises Labradors, Newfoundlands, Collies and Old English Sheep dogs, had similar problems. Then Elaine’s Blue Merle stud dog (sire of all her dogs) began drooling and bleeding from the mouth. From a biopsy, her veterinarian diagnosed an immune breakdown triggered by a virus or chemical.  Her bitches who had not previously come into estrus were now delivering litters of malformed puppies: two were born without legs, tails or sex organs.  The problems in these two kennels were traced to a change in diet fed the dogs, from one free of "E" preservative to a dog food with "E" preservative. 6.  Another German Shepherd breeder in Pennsylvania lost a puppy fed Pro Plan ("E" preserved) to a fast growing cancer in both hips. Some of the damning information on "E" comes from Monsanto’s own cautionary warnings in using and handling this product. They warn that it may cause allergic skin reactions, irritation to the eyes and skin. They advise that workers must wear eye and respiratory protection.  The container of "E" has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters. "E" is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220). Monsanto further states the disclaimer regarding the use of "E," that "Although … read more »

Response:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look.

Ethoxyquin danger has been known in the dog world for some time. It causes liver lesions and possibly death depending on severity. It is why Ethoxyquin has been banned in human food in Australia for some years now. If you want pet food without it, IAMS makes it for Australia in America without Ethoxyquin. — Remove the anti-spammer stuff

Response:

I’ve been looking up info on preservatives in pet food and have obviously have found some disturbing things.  The letter below was written by a vet to the Division of Animal Feeds at the FDA.  It relates to a chemical called Ethoxyquin which is, among other things, a pesticide, insecticide and rubber hardener.  It’s in a lot of cat and dog foods, too.  Please take a look. Dr. David A. Dzanis Veterinary Nutritionist Div. of Animal Feeds; FDA HFV-222 7500 Standish Place Rockville, MD 20855 Dear Dr. Dzanis: I am writing to you about the dangers of Ethoxyquin used as a preservative in many pet foods and human foods. Since you are responsible for pet food issues within the FDA and will be meeting with two concerned dog breeders next month concerning the safety of this chemical, I wish to present my own experiences and knowledge of Ethoxyquin’s toxic affects, first hand. First of all, let me introduce myself; I am a veterinarian, a graduate from the University of Calif. Veterinary Medical School, Davis, California, class of 1960. I had a small animal practice in San Ramon, California (a rapidly growing area east of San Francisco) for 31 years and am now retired.  During those many years I saw a change emerging in the disease and illness of animals presented to me. In the early 1960s, our concerns were primarily those of infectious agents causing Canine Distemper, Feline Distemper, Hepatitis, Leptospirosis, staph and strep infections, etc. However during the 1970s and to the present time we are seeing an epidemic of chronic degenerative diseases.  True, the widely accepted program of preventative vaccination programs virtually wiped out the viral caused diseases and antibiotics helped stem the bacterial infections, but something else is operative here.  We are now seeing both in the animal and human populations, a sharing of chronic degenerative diseases such as generalized allergies, arthritis, dermatitis, congestive heart failure, kidney failure, liver pathologies, diabetes, AIDS, tumors and cancer.  Also, lifespans of animals have shortened during this period. I remember, as a kid growing up in Nevada seeing Basque sheep herders with working dogs living to be 20-25 years of age.  These dogs were still herding sheep at that age, and the bitches were delivering litters of healthy puppies at 20 years of age! Today we are lucky to find dogs living to be 10 years old, and may of these suffering from various forms of chronic degenerative disease. Of course in the 1940s our air, water and food was clean and virtually free of chemicals.  My shepherd friend’s dogs worked in clean air, ate fresh lamb stew and vegetables and home-baked bread along with his master.  As a dog show veterinarian I have hear many judges say there is a definite difference to the feel of the muscles and skeleton of dogs in Australia than those of America. The Australian dogs’ muscles are firm, bones firm and strong compared to the mushy feel of the American dogs.  Why?  Because these animals’ diets are vastly different. The Australian dogs were being fed (until recently — now there is an emergence of commercial pet food) trimmings from the freshly killed beef and sheep carcasses, vegetables and fresh grains, ours on commercial kibble and canned dog food with every chemical residue and preservative and coloring in the book!  And forget all the highly touted advertising and P.R. by the pet food industry–I say put garbage in–get garbage out!  In the good old days, the family pet ate from the same "pot" so to speak, as the owner/family did, and were healthier for it.  Not only are chronic degenerative diseases of pets on the increase, but breeders complain of increasing frequency and numbers of reproductive problems: irregular estrus cycles, missed conceptions, stillborns, "fading puppy" syndrome, increased neonatal deaths and malformed puppies with missing limbs, organs, hydrocephalus, cleft palates, etc. Historically, I was first alterted to Ethoxyquin’s (heretofore being referred to as "E") possible health hazard to dogs, when Midge Harmer, a breeder of German Shepherd show and obedience dogs in Newark, Deleware contacted me on February 12, 1988. She related her hearbreaking experience of losing four of her young champions to liver cancer.  Since she had changed nothing in her program of rearing these dogs except switching their diet to feeding ANF (Advanced Nutritional Formula), she looked into the ingredients and found "E" as a preservative.  She asked me if I had any experience with this preservative and its affect on animal health. Thus started a four-year quest into finding out all we could on this chemical.  I hadn’t any knowledge about "E" or its related toxic affects to animal health until I started looking into it. I next met a breeder at the Golden Gate Dog Show in San Francisco that same year. She told me of suddenly developing 82% mortality in her puppies (Min. Pinchers, and Boston Terriers). Out of 27 puppies born she was lucky to save 5. Many others were stillborn and malformed with cleft palates, and hydrocephalus.  These problems were atypical.  She had not changed any variables (including breeding stock) except for changing the diet to ANF because of the highly favorable advertising put out by the manufacturers. I contacted the Dept. of Agriculture for toxicology information on "E."  They sent me a copy from their Farm Chemical Handbook listing "E" as a pesticide, used in fruit scald control. It is also used as a rubber preservative. I have since learned "E" is FDA approved for use as an antioxidant for carotenes vitamin A and E and the prevention of the development of organic peroxides.  It is approved at 550 ppm in paprika and chili powder, and because it is used as a preservative in livestock feed, the following residue alowances in human consumed animal products as follows 5 ppm in or on the uncooked fat of meat from animals except poultry; 3 ppm in or on the uncooked liver and fat of poultry, 0.5 ppm in or on the uncooked muscle meat of animals, 0.5 ppm in poultry eggs, and zero in milk. We have learned "E" is used as a preservative in such widely marketed dog foods as ANF, Eagle Dog Food, NutriMax, Hills Prescription Diet W/D, K/D, Nutro, Purina, IAMS, Royal Canine USA; and in livestock feeds by Willowbrook Mills in Petaluma to preserve Lay Crumbles for laying chickens, and dehydrated forage crops of alfalfa, barley, clovers, corn, oats, wheat, fescue and various grasses.  The above information brings up the question why the FDA allows such a small amount of "E" residue (5 to .5 ppm) in human consumed foods yet allows such high amounts (150 ppm) to be used in pet food and livestock feeds?  In the case of the dog, pound for pound, a dog weighs 1/5 to 1/10th the weight of a human (except for giant breeds of dogs) yet is consuming 300 times more "E" than allowed for people. Also many dog food manufacturers are not listing "E" as an ingredient on the packaging. Only under extensive investigation will they admit it. Isn’t there an FDA regulation about labeling ingredients?  Truth in labeling is another issue–ANF, which incidentially is one of the most expensive dog foods, is touted by the manufacturer as an "all natural formula" with no preservatives, yet lists "E" as an antioxidant which they claim to be quite safe. Correspondence with various people revealed other dog owners/breeders having sad experinces with pets eating "E" preserved dog food: 1.  A breeder of Rottweilers lost a dog with liver cancer after switching to feeding ANF for 6 months. 2.  A German Shepherd breeder lost a stud dog to cancer of the mouth, feeding dog food containing "E." 3.  A woman had skin allergies develop in her German Shepherd fed on NutroMax ("E" preserved) and then switched to Solid Gold (no "E") with the dermatitis allergy disappearing. 4.  Dr. Pia Peters, Ph.D. claims that when she was studying in Ireland for her degree in agriculture (1983-84) she became interested in a news story relating that farmers in Italy suddenly had calves born with eyes on the backs of their heads, no ears, two or three legs only, or legs developing turned backwards, etc. Dr. Peters claims that the culprit was "E" in the animal feed fed to the breeding stock. 5.  A breeder first of Poodles, then Collies, had been free of whelping problems; her bitches came into estrus every 6 months "like clockwork," and all whelped normal healthy litters, then a few years ago she began noticing changes in their overall appearance.  She was now seeing dry, lusterless coats, flaky skin, and nose pigementation fading. A friend of her who raises Labradors, Newfoundlands, Collies and Old English Sheep dogs, had similar problems. Then Elaine’s Blue Merle stud dog (sire of all her dogs) began drooling and bleeding from the mouth. From a biopsy, her veterinarian diagnosed an immune breakdown triggered by a virus or chemical.  Her bitches who had not previously come into estrus were now delivering litters of malformed puppies: two were born without legs, tails or sex organs.  The problems in these two kennels were traced to a change in diet fed the dogs, from one free of "E" preservative to a dog food with "E" preservative. 6.  Another German Shepherd breeder in Pennsylvania lost a puppy fed Pro Plan ("E" preserved) to a fast growing cancer in both hips. Some of the damning information on "E" comes from Monsanto’s own cautionary warnings in using and handling this product. They warn that it may cause allergic skin reactions, irritation to the eyes and skin. They advise that workers must wear eye and respiratory protection.  The container of "E" has a very prominent skull and crossbones with POISON written in capital letters. "E" is listed and identified as a hazardous chemical under the criteria of the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard (29 CFR 1910, 1220). Monsanto further states the disclaimer regarding the use of "E," that "Although … read more »

Response: