Question:

Hi Everyone, I’m wondering about insomnia.  My friend who also has ptsd has insomnia really bad and has been taking Oxazepam (Serax) for about the last 4 years, takes 10 mg per night, sometimes with Tylenol pm.  It gets her to sleep, but she doesn’t stay asleep.  She wakes up, feels anxious, can’t go back to sleep. I’m taking Temazepam, 30 mg, started with no more than 2-3 nights a week until I started seeing the VA who now has me on it every night. We both don’t like being dependent on drugs, but whenever each of us tries to get sleep without them we just end up sleepless and miserable. She doesn’t have nightmares, I do.  I take the meds mostly to get away from the nightmares, but I’m finding out that Temazepam loses it’s effect over time as my body gets used to it.   So, I’ve gone for two nights without it, then two nights on.  The nights without it leave me feeling like sh*t the next day, eyes feel like two swollen monkey pusses in a snowstorm.  The nights I do take it, my memory is shot the next day, I’m confused, groggy and not worth much. I know that each of us responds to meds differently, so I guess my question is has anyone got any ideas about sleep?  We’ve both read a workbook on insomnia, but I was just wondering if anyone has any input on the subject? Thanks in advance, Z55

Response:

Hi morceaux, Thanks for the response.  I stay away from alcohol pretty much, only one or two beers or glasses of wine a year about.  120 hours with no sleep would have me so brain burnt I’m not sure I could take it! Interesting about the benydryl, although I don’t like the way it drys me out.  I’m wondering if the Temazepam is as addictive as the Ambien. I think I’ll try putting on a language tape, that way if I don’t sleep at least maybe I’ll learn something useful! Z55 les morceaux <morce…@recoverynhealing.zzn.com

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hoy z55, I’m taking Temazepam, 30 mg I take the meds mostly to get away from the nightmares, but I’m finding out that Temazepam loses it’s effect over time as my body gets used to it.  So, I’ve gone for two nights without it, then two nights on. The nights without it leave me feeling like sh*t the next day, eyes feel like two swollen monkey pusses in a snowstorm. The nights I do take it, my memory is shot the next day, I’m confused, groggy and not worth much. I know that each of us responds to meds differently, so I guess my question is has anyone got any ideas about sleep? at my best, my body thinks the earth turns every 30 hours. at my worst, i’ve gone close to 120 hours without any sleep. i take 10-20 mgs of ambien once a week. the rest of the week, i take what sleep i can get with nothing, and if i go 3 days without being able to sleep more than 4 ours a night, i take a couple benedryl. i like ambien because it lets me sleep, but it doesn’t knock me flat on my ass the next day. also, it allows me to dream, so i actually get good rest from the sleep. benedryl works for getting me to sleep, but not as well as my ambien script. i sometimes feel a little groggy the next day when i take benedryl. i don’t know how much it affects my dream state, but i don’t think i dream as much on it as I do on ambien. neither of them makes me have nightmares. i’m prone to nightmares, but as i’ve gotten older, that problem seems to have gotten better. i still have nightmares, but i don’t have the hellish all-nighters i used to have. ambien is very addictive, which is why i don’t take it every night. the one time i took it four nights in a row, i ended up not being able to sleep at all for 4 days. ambien is also a bit dangerous because when i mix it with a fairly small dose of alcohol (three glasses of wine or a couple mixed drinks) i get totally plastered and usually have a black- out. it’s fun to do that way, but dangerous because of the addictive aspect. i don’t allow myself to play with it like that more than once a month. morceaux — For a new email address, try http://recoverynhealing.zzn.com — She stared people down and appeared remorseless because the only choices she knew were predator or victim.                              –Shankar Vedantam — My mind is a bad neighborhood. I try not to go there alone.                              –Unknown — The best thing about my childhood is it’s over. The worst thing about it is I’m not over it.                              –Bailey Trebble

Response:

Question:

Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch, squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy and lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.   Trazadone did nothing for me as well.  It was as if I’d taken an aspirin or something.

I’m another one for whom Trazadone did nothing at all. I try to alternate between meds so I don’t build up a tolerance, sometimes Imovane, sometimes a benzo. There are nights when nothing works, for sure, but this is the best combo/solution I’ve come across to date. Hannah

Response:

Kris, : (  That sucks.  Heard anything back from your pdoc yet? kat "BaliKris" <balik…@aol.comzipspam

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Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch, squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy

and

lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.  Put a call in

to

doc today for help on this issue myself.  The one thing I’ve found that

makes

me sleep is Depakote. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long,

they

become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure

to

become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

One toke over the line, Sweet Jesus, One toke over the line…. kat "Lawrence Lusk" <lelvn…@charter.net

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Kat, is tobacco or pot. I don’t think I’ve had a really good nights sleep since I promised to give up pot. Re-thinking that right now. Got an hour

and > a half last night. I don’t mind getting a buzz on except when it’s from > fatigue. > Larry L. > "Kat" <kathi…@frontiernet.net

wrote in message

> news:9kh9uk$3pf2$1@node21.cwnet.roc.gblx.net… > > Tiny, > > I know one thing works very well for me, smoking…. > > It’s a last resort type of thing, but when all else fails, that usually > > works. > > kat

Response:

Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

I just use my anti-anxiety med now but a anti-depressant called Tarazadone (think I spelled it right) works really well. Has a potential bad side effect for males and can make you feel groggy for a while after you wake up. Ask your Pdoc about it. Minimum dose of about 50 mg usually works for most people and can be used in conjunction with many other anti-depressants. Larry L. "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Trazadone worked wonders for me… big time gynia Life is a Celebration ~ Join in the Dance!

Response:

I wish I had an answer. I’ve tried so many things that I’ve given up hoping for a medication sleep-aid. I’ll take 30 mg. Flexeril, 8 mg. Zanaflex, 225 mg. Effexor, 2 wellbutrin, 2 vistaril and 2 mg Klonopin and still stay awake all night (like last night).  I have to ask my doc for help. Tried ambien, trazadone, and can’t recall what else.  Just FYI I had visual disturbances with trazadone. Don’t know how rare it is but I had it w/Serzone too (they’re related.) Watch your eyes =) Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long, they become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure to become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

Kris, at least you gals don’t have to worry about the worst bad side effect of trazadone. Trouble with trazadone like most meds that can help you sleep is that you build up a tolerance and have to keep upping the dosage over time. Larry L. "BaliKris" <balik…@aol.comzipspam

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I wish I had an answer. I’ve tried so many things that I’ve given up

hoping for

a medication sleep-aid. I’ll take 30 mg. Flexeril, 8 mg. Zanaflex, 225 mg. Effexor, 2 wellbutrin,

2

vistaril and 2 mg Klonopin and still stay awake all night (like last

night).  I

have to ask my doc for help. Tried ambien, trazadone, and can’t recall what else.  Just FYI I had

visual

disturbances with trazadone. Don’t know how rare it is but I had it

w/Serzone

too (they’re related.) Watch your eyes =) Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long,

they

become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure

to

become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

I was taking Ambien for sleep but i found it left me feeling tierd all day. A friend sugested trying melatonin.  You can get it at most drug stores over the counter.  People use it when flying alot.  i take 3mg of it.  The first time i used it i woke up feeling so rested.  i took it 3 nights in a row and after that didn’t even need it.  Ocasionaly i take it and it helps me to feel more rested when i wake up. Joanne

Response:

tiny dancer, I take Imovane for sleep.  Started on 5 mg almost two years ago and only recently had to increase to the normal dosage of 7.5 mg.  I take it at 10:30 p.m., go to bed around 12:30 a.m. and fall asleep as soon as my head hits the pillow. The nice part about Imovane is that I don’t feel tired the next day.  I sleep until 8:30 – 9 a.m. and feel rested enough to not have a problem getting out of bed.  The med doesn’t "put" me to sleep so much so that a loud sound won’t wake me up in the middle of the night and I can fall back to sleep easily. I’ve tried several others – ambien, trazadone, nozinan (weight gain with that one big time) – and so far Imovane has been the most consistant. .. View the AST-PTSD FAQ @  http://astpfaq.tripod.com/astpfaq/ "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Thank you guys for all of your suggestions, keep them coming.  I’m going to write them all down and give them to my therapist.  I’ve been using 1mg xanax for a couple years now, but I’m just not getting more than 3 or 4 hours out of it.  I appreciate all your replies and anyone else’s comments too.  When I first got home from the hospital after my surgery I felt so rested.  I don’t remember ever feeling rested like that before in my life, even though I’d just had major surgery I told my therapist, pain and all, I felt good, but now I’m really dragging again. tiny dancer "cloud dreamer" <Cloudream…@NOSPAMcanada.com

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tiny dancer, I take Imovane for sleep.  Started on 5 mg almost two years ago and only recently had to increase to the normal dosage of 7.5 mg.  I take it at

10:30 > p.m., go to bed around 12:30 a.m. and fall asleep as soon as my head hits > the pillow. > The nice part about Imovane is that I don’t feel tired the next day.  I > sleep until 8:30 – 9 a.m. and feel rested enough to not have a problem > getting out of bed.  The med doesn’t "put" me to sleep so much so that a > loud sound won’t wake me up in the middle of the night and I can fall back > to sleep easily. > I’ve tried several others – ambien, trazadone, nozinan (weight gain with > that one big time) – and so far Imovane has been the most consistant. > .. > View the AST-PTSD FAQ @  http://astpfaq.tripod.com/astpfaq/ > "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> news:5Wpa7.81513$TM5.9894325@typhoon.southeast.rr.com… > > Hi guys, > > I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for

sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

I’ve tried everything but the only thing that works for me is gravol – it is a motion sickness over the counter type of thing it’s side effect is drowsiness – it’s the only thing that works for me "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Tiny, Trazadone (Deseryl) is an antidepressant, that will knock you out.  I took some one night, and waited too long to go to bed, I had to crawl to the bed, felt like I was drunk.  It worked for me, but was just so hard to shake the next morning.  Valium works well for me, but is so addictive, and most docs don’t like prescribing it for that reason. Jeez Tiny, I don’t know. kat "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Hi Joanne, Ambien does the same thing to me, feels like I’m drugged out all day. kat "Joanne Johnson" <za…@worldnet.att.net

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I was taking Ambien for sleep but i found it left me feeling tierd all

day.

A friend sugested trying melatonin.  You can get it at most drug stores

over

the counter.  People use it when flying alot.  i take 3mg of it.  The

first

time i used it i woke up feeling so rested.  i took it 3 nights in a row

and

after that didn’t even need it.  Ocasionaly i take it and it helps me to feel more rested when i wake up. Joanne

Response:

Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch, squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy and lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.  Put a call in to doc today for help on this issue myself.  The one thing I’ve found that makes me sleep is Depakote. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long, they become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure to become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

It’s no wonder that so many Pdocs don’t want anything to do with PTSD patients. If you had schizophrenia a Pdoc has only about half a dozen drugs to choose from and he knows that in one or two tries he can fix the problem with medication. With PTSD they can’t even figure out how to give us a uniform nights sleep. Larry L. "BaliKris" <balik…@aol.comzipspam

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Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch, squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy

and

lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.  Put a call in

to

doc today for help on this issue myself.  The one thing I’ve found that

makes

me sleep is Depakote. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long,

they

become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure

to

become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

Hi Larry!

It’s no wonder that so many Pdocs don’t want anything to do with PTSD patients. If you had schizophrenia a Pdoc has only about half a dozen

drugs

to choose from and he knows that in one or two tries he can fix the

problem

with medication. With PTSD they can’t even figure out how to give us a uniform nights sleep.

Welcome to the PTSD land of ‘there ain’t no magic pill’. :/ Until they finish with our ‘little contribution’ of a generation or more of suffering, I doubt that there will be much improvement.  But, I am grateful that we aren’t in padded cells any more, medicated into silence! Actually, as there was no real work on PTSD until the DAV paid for it in the 1970s, there is considerable progress to note in our diagnosis and treatment.  Remember, it’s the practice of medicine, not the perfection of medicine. Smile and there will be something to smile about! Nancy

Response:

LOL Larry, you got that right.  I’ve only had 1 (out of 5) psychiatrists that was really aggressive, interested and very well-versed in the different meds. He was very confident and comfortable with the range of drugs and it helped me a lot. He was my first too and I miss him now. My pdoc sucks now. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long, they become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure to become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

You’ve got lots of answers so try to break it down a bit more. Do benzodiazepenes (like valium, dalmane, and xanax, and many more) help you?  They’re an old class of drugs often used for various things like anxiety or sleep.  So if you had a bad anxiety problem, then a benzo could help with the sleep and your underlying problem together.  The point is, think generally for a bit to determine what class might work best for you. If all you want is sleep, you can try something new like Ambien.  I didn’t care much for it but it did help me sleep (my goal was broader than that). Or antihistimines, like the ingredient in Tylenol P.M. will work too.   But instead you should by the ingredient by itself instead of taking the tylenol part which isn’t good for your liver over longer term (the new OTC med is made by Tylenol and called Simply Sleep). For me, I use Dalmane 15mg 30 minutes before bed.  It’s a benzo with a long-half life but the peak concentration is during the sleeping hours.  So I can wake up fine but it’s in my blood the whole next day to help (mildly) with anxiety. Some of the drugs might be depressing (sometimes valium is), so you’d want to stay away from those if you have depression.  See my point? Again, think about what your fundamental problems are and maybe that will help you with a decision. "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Well I’ve got all the usual ptsd problems, hypervigilance, anxiety, depression, and I’m already taking a 1mg. xanax and two benedryl to sleep every night.  But I need more sleep than I’m getting on those, about 3 to 4 hours tops.  I had surgery a couple months ago and they kept me pretty well sedated in the hospital.  Besides the xanax, zoloft, morphine, the doc gave me some opiates.  I slept so good when I was in the hospital, came home in pain but so well-rested that I felt better than I can ever remember feeling before.  But once that "well rested" period wore off now I’m exhausted once again.  My therapist even noticed the change in my demeanor with a bit of sleep, so we’re trying to find something that will give me some more rest. So it has to be something that I can take nightly, because if I don’t take something to calm me down I don’t get any sleep at all.  Tried the melatonin route but it didn’t do anything for me at all, even along with the xanax. tiny dancer "AMM" <newsgroupREMOVEALLCAPSacco…@yahoo.com

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You’ve got lots of answers so try to break it down a bit more. Do benzodiazepenes (like valium, dalmane, and xanax, and many more) help you?  They’re an old class of drugs often used for various things like anxiety or sleep.  So if you had a bad anxiety problem, then a benzo could help with the sleep and your underlying problem together.  The point is, think generally for a bit to determine what class might work best for you. If all you want is sleep, you can try something new like Ambien.  I didn’t care much for it but it did help me sleep (my goal was broader than that). Or antihistimines, like the ingredient in Tylenol P.M. will work too.

But

instead you should by the ingredient by itself instead of taking the

tylenol

part which isn’t good for your liver over longer term (the new OTC med is made by Tylenol and called Simply Sleep). For me, I use Dalmane 15mg 30 minutes before bed.  It’s a benzo with a long-half life but the peak concentration is during the sleeping hours.

So

I can wake up fine but it’s in my blood the whole next day to help

(mildly) > with anxiety. > Some of the drugs might be depressing (sometimes valium is), so you’d want > to stay away from those if you have depression.  See my point? > Again, think about what your fundamental problems are and maybe that will > help you with a decision. > "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> news:5Wpa7.81513$TM5.9894325@typhoon.southeast.rr.com… > > Hi guys, > > I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for

sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Hey Kris, Sorry to hear that.  : (  BTW, my dosage was very high.  They said much more, they’d have to switch me.  If I remember right, I was taking 6 pills a night (highest mg. available), about 1/2 hour before bed.  This was before the advent of all the new antidepressants though.  Like, 12 years ago or so? Just amazing, isn’t it?  All these frigging psych drugs, and still, most of us can’t find one that works consistently for us. kat "BaliKris" <balik…@aol.comzipspam

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Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch, squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy

and

lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.  Put a call in

to

doc today for help on this issue myself.  The one thing I’ve found that

makes

me sleep is Depakote. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long,

they

become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under pressure

to

become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

Larry, Ain’t that the truth. kat "Lawrence Lusk" <lelvn…@charter.net

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It’s no wonder that so many Pdocs don’t want anything to do with PTSD patients. If you had schizophrenia a Pdoc has only about half a dozen

drugs

to choose from and he knows that in one or two tries he can fix the

problem > with medication. With PTSD they can’t even figure out how to give us a > uniform nights sleep. > Larry L. > "BaliKris" <balik…@aol.comzipspam

wrote in message

> news:20010804010528.18835.00002438@mb-mv.aol.com… > > Kat…sigh…another weird wiring inside me, trazadone did nothing, zilch,

squat.  I was on it for a couple weeks, waiting for it to make me sleepy and lose the wakeful/watchful state but it didn’t do the trick.  Put a call

in

to doc today for help on this issue myself.  The one thing I’ve found that makes me sleep is Depakote. Kristine If natural energy and impulses are too severely suppressed for too long, they become violent. It’s natural for something that’s been held under

pressure

to become violent in its release…Jim Morrison

Response:

Tiny, I know one thing works very well for me, smoking…. It’s a last resort type of thing, but when all else fails, that usually works. kat "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

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Hi guys, I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well for sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for suggestions. tiny dancer

Response:

Kat, is tobacco or pot. I don’t think I’ve had a really good nights sleep since I promised to give up pot. Re-thinking that right now. Got an hour and a half last night. I don’t mind getting a buzz on except when it’s from fatigue. Larry L. "Kat" <kathi…@frontiernet.net

wrote in message

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Tiny, I know one thing works very well for me, smoking…. It’s a last resort type of thing, but when all else fails, that usually works. kat

Response:

Well, xanax is a benzo but a very very short-acting one.  good for panic attacks because of that but not good as a sleep med because of it (unless you just need to fall asleep and then you’re OK, but that doesn’t sound like you). I’d look into the peak concentration times and half-lifes of these drugs and fine one that keeps you asleep for 8 (or whatever) hours.  Maybe you need to aim for 6 and that will mean 8.  Who knows. Benadryl does help sleep but I’m not sure of it’s duration.  I don’t think it’s a long duration drug. Dalmane, with a good half-life and a peak concentration soon enough to get you to fall asleep has been good to me.   It sounds like you’re having trouble with sleep medications wearing off. Also, antidepressants can make you NOT sleep even if they increase your fatigue.  Try to remember when you were sleeping well and what was different. And after being on other drugs, you have to let yourself go through those withdrawals before fairly evaluating things. Check pharmalogic profiles of drugs you (and your doc) consider at www.rxlist.com "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

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Well I’ve got all the usual ptsd problems, hypervigilance, anxiety, depression, and I’m already taking a 1mg. xanax and two benedryl to sleep every night.  But I need more sleep than I’m getting on those, about 3 to

4

hours tops.  I had surgery a couple months ago and they kept me pretty

well

sedated in the hospital.  Besides the xanax, zoloft, morphine, the doc

gave

me some opiates.  I slept so good when I was in the hospital, came home in pain but so well-rested that I felt better than I can ever remember

feeling

before.  But once that "well rested" period wore off now I’m exhausted

once

again.  My therapist even noticed the change in my demeanor with a bit of sleep, so we’re trying to find something that will give me some more rest. So it has to be something that I can take nightly, because if I don’t take something to calm me down I don’t get any sleep at all.  Tried the

melatonin > route but it didn’t do anything for me at all, even along with the xanax. > tiny dancer > "AMM" <newsgroupREMOVEALLCAPSacco…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> news:AWUa7.42106$Gj5.18614796@typhoon.san.rr.com… > > You’ve got lots of answers so try to break it down a bit more. > > Do benzodiazepenes (like valium, dalmane, and xanax, and many more) help > > you?  They’re an old class of drugs often used for various things like > > anxiety or sleep.  So if you had a bad anxiety problem, then a benzo could

help with the sleep and your underlying problem together.  The point is, think generally for a bit to determine what class might work best for

you.

If all you want is sleep, you can try something new like Ambien.  I

didn’t

care much for it but it did help me sleep (my goal was broader than

that).

Or antihistimines, like the ingredient in Tylenol P.M. will work too. But instead you should by the ingredient by itself instead of taking the tylenol part which isn’t good for your liver over longer term (the new OTC med

is

made by Tylenol and called Simply Sleep). For me, I use Dalmane 15mg 30 minutes before bed.  It’s a benzo with a long-half life but the peak concentration is during the sleeping hours. So I can wake up fine but it’s in my blood the whole next day to help (mildly) with anxiety. Some of the drugs might be depressing (sometimes valium is), so you’d

want

to stay away from those if you have depression.  See my point? Again, think about what your fundamental problems are and maybe that

will > > help you with a decision. > > "tiny dancer" <tinydancer…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> > news:5Wpa7.81513$TM5.9894325@typhoon.southeast.rr.com… > > > Hi guys, > > > I was just wondering if anybody takes anything that really works well > for > > > sleep?  We’re considering changing my sleep meds so I’m looking for > > > suggestions. > > > tiny dancer

Response:

Question:

One thing to remember when you take anything to sleep is that when you stop taking it, for about a week you will have problems sleeping I am sorry to say. "Ludwig" <ludwigrom…@ikobo.com

wrote in message

news:413666f9.0307170633.a82602a@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

have had some troubles sleeping (I believe it is insomnia) for more than 20 years ago. I am a 35 year old man. I have hard time with both trying to get sleep and waking up in the middle of the night or early in the morning – not matter when I go to bed. I believe I have insomnia since I don’t any problems breathing or something like. I first started with Melatonin (15 years ago with 3 mg), but I couldn’t get too much sleep. Then my doctor gave me Elavil 10 mg, no much help, then I got a higher dosis that I combined with Melatonin (3mg) to gave me a "good sleep". However, these pills leave me the hangover in the mornings . Some months ago, I told my primary doctor again about this side-effect of Elabil, and she gave me Ambien. Ambien knocked me out right there after I took 10 mg that night, but I woke up at 4 am (as all people in this newsgroup have said). However, I didn’t have the hangover that was caused by Elavil, but with Ambien it seems to me that I need to sleep more hours. I have tried to stop taking any sleeping pills also with not success. Those nights when I haven’t taken any sleeping pills, it has been terrible. I have slept not more than  3 to 4 hours with not pills, and I have felt really tired in the morning. So, I went back to Elavil and Melatonin, but I am really tired of taking pills anyway. I have read several posted articles here in this newsgroup about a book that was written by Greg Jacobs "Say good Night to Insomnia". It seems to me that this CPT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy) works, but I feel skeptical about it. Any help or suggestion about this therapy? Or any help about sleeping pills that really help me to eliminate mi insomnia? Or at least to feel better in the morning? Download this as a file

Response:

One thing to remember when you take anything to sleep is that when you stop taking it, for about a week you will have problems sleeping I am sorry to say.

Unfortunately, this doesn’t bear much weight to someone with insomnia. It’s like saying to someone who’s dying of dehydration that they shouldn’t drink water because they’ll get "rebound thirst." Of course you’ll get thirsty again, but you were already thirsty to begin with, so what’s the problem? Besides, the recent conference of the American Academies of Sleep Professionals had doctors generally conclude rebound insomnia doesn’t exist with Ambien. It’s also on the package insert, if you bothered to check. The FDA doesn’t exactly allow exclamation points in there, so that means something. Good ol’ newsgroup misinformation. Gotta love it. No evidence, just bunk.

Response:

everyoneisve…@yahoo.com (Ganishe  Alprya) wrote in message <news:5e6eb1a3.0307171929.7752600e@posting.google.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

One thing to remember when you take anything to sleep is that when you stop taking it, for about a week you will have problems sleeping I am sorry to say. Unfortunately, this doesn’t bear much weight to someone with insomnia. It’s like saying to someone who’s dying of dehydration that they shouldn’t drink water because they’ll get "rebound thirst." Of course you’ll get thirsty again, but you were already thirsty to begin with, so what’s the problem? Besides, the recent conference of the American Academies of Sleep Professionals had doctors generally conclude rebound insomnia doesn’t exist with Ambien. It’s also on the package insert, if you bothered to check. The FDA doesn’t exactly allow exclamation points in there, so that means something. Good ol’ newsgroup misinformation. Gotta love it. No evidence, just bunk.

What about the CPT (Cognitive-behavioral therapy)? any info about its effectiveness?

Response:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:01:34 -0400, "ldunnuck" <ldunn…@cox.net

wrote:

I have been told from doctors that sleeping pills and sleep apnea don’t mix? that it defeats the purpose of using a CPAP? any truth in this?

The orthodox position on the subject of sleeping pills for sleep apneics is that since they cause deeper sleep. However, oddly enough, a lot of people have the worst problems with apnea in REM sleep (which is NOT a deep sleep condition).

Response:

On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:01:34 -0400, "ldunnuck" <ldunn…@cox.net

wrote:

I have been told from doctors that sleeping pills and sleep apnea don’t mix? that it defeats the purpose of using a CPAP? any truth in this? thanks. Don aka…..Tricks

Here’s some info about OTC, as well as Rx’d meds.  Go to http://www.AwakeInPhilly.org/Meetings/2003/Jan2003/ and then click the link at the top of the page to "Read the Meeting Minutes" — It is a PDF file, so you will need Adobe Acrobat Reader.  The file is 154k in size, so it may take a minute or so to open for people on dialup connections. -dave PGP Public Keys: http://scoop0901.net/PGP/PgPkEyS.htm Send me encrypted email for security! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |     Dave Jackson * http://www.scoop0901.net/Sleep-e_Times     | |            Editor         *         The Sleep-e Times         | |   eFax: 253-423-7208  *  mailto:Sleep-e_Ti…@scoop0901.net   | |     "Vision without action is a daydream. Action without      | |          vision is a nightmare." – Japanese Proverb           | ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Response:

Charles Perrin <c.l.perrin…@att.net

wrote in message <news:3bbphvcabeafgbd8vsemls4bjofhcv82c5@4ax.com… On Mon, 21 Jul 2003 18:01:34 -0400, "ldunnuck" <ldunn…@cox.net wrote: I have been told from doctors that sleeping pills and sleep apnea don’t mix? that it defeats the purpose of using a CPAP? any truth in this? The orthodox position on the subject of sleeping pills for sleep apneics is that since they cause deeper sleep. However, oddly enough, a lot of people have the worst problems with apnea in REM sleep (which is NOT a deep sleep condition).

What I get confused over is that Xyrem had to prove to the FDA it won’t depress the respiratory system so much (at a therapeutic dose, anyhow) that they tested it on people with sleep apnea before being able to get it approved for cataplexy. I guess the FDA’s concern was that since sleep apnea is so commonly missed, they didn’t want to introduce a drug to patients unless they were more comfortable about its safety with patients featuring apnea. Yet I don’t remember the results of this study. All I know is that it was done, it was proven rather safe or something (no one died or anything) and there’s no black box on Xyrem’s insert that says to screen out for apnea before prescribing. In fact, the only stuff I’ve heard about apnea and Xyrem not mixing is from newsgroups. And these are the same people who state Ambien and apnea don’t mix, even though the FDA insert on Ambien is very explicit when it states clinical trials found no higher rates of disordered breathing in patients with apnea. So yes, sleeping pills of any kind should be used -cautiously- with apnea patients, but Ambien has been proven to not affect breathing events. Also, some of you get really outlandish when you talk about apnea and hypnotics. At the same breath, you’ll also point out how common apnea is and how 1/3 of those with it are not diagnosed (which is true). Given how frequently a drug like Ambien is prescribed, that 1/3 of the population with apnea would probably be noted as having died in their sleep quite often if a problem did exist. It should be noticed Ambien is in a different class of hypnotics, which accounts for its diminished effects on respiratory depression. But even so, people not diagnosed with apnea when they have it frequently get prescribed all sorts of sedatives, which sort of "hide" their underlying apnea. So it’s not so tragic as some posters here like to convince us of– for one, Ambien and Xyrem had clinical trials using apnea patients, and no one died during them. Second of all, it’s well known that apnea patients are among the most prescribed group when it comes to sedatives (at least in regards patients with apnea that hasn’t been diagnosed) because they often complain of trouble sleeping, fatigue, etc. You guys act like everyone on the planet should have a sleep-deprived EEG, a PSG and an MSLT and see a pulmonary specialist to rule out apnea (I’ve done all of these, got an apnea index of 4, which they said is borderline so it’s not really worthy of CPAP or dental appliance) before taking a sleeping pill. That’s ridiculious, considering Ambien is the most widely prescribed sleeping pill and has proven safety with apnea. Even if it was a problem, AutoPAP would over-compensate for such a problem. Seriously, take a chill pill, if not a sleeping pill. It’ll help you guys be less paranoid. You’re going to end up making everyone think apnea and sleeping pills are an equation of death.

Response:

I have the same problem with Ambien- 10mg is fine to go to sleep, but no matter what the dose is, I end up waking up at 4am. I’ve noticed some success with combining a low-dose of Trazodone with a lowered dose of Ambien (1/2 of what is effective for you usually). I take 5-10mg of Ambien combined with 50-75mg of Trazodone. Reason why there’s a range is that Trazodone builds up in the system, so after a few days 50mg acts like 75 or 100. So it’s really not the most scientific approach, but it’s what I have to do to not get the dose that leaves me groggy when I wake up (which is 100mg, which is what I’d have to take if I wasn’t combining it with Ambien). Ambien SR won’t come out until 2005. The makers said it’s for people who don’t find Ambien to work long enough. I’m pretty sure they knew about this well before it came out in ‘93 or so, so that upsets me they didn’t bother to even consider a sustained release until now. Obviously for patent reasons. Speaking of which, why is a drug that came out in ‘93 still not generically available?? Orphan drug companies go crazy because they’re allowed 7 instead of 6 years for their patents, and Ambien’s had 10 and still going on strong.

Response:

have had some troubles sleeping (I believe it is insomnia) for more than 20 years ago. I am a 35 year old man. I have hard time with both trying to get sleep and waking up in the middle of the night or early in the morning

Question:

Jim McGowan (jcmcgo…@home.com) wrote:

: Actually it’s rare to build a tolerance for benzos.  Benzos are not commonly Are you sure? While tolerance doesn’t build up for anxiety itself normally, the drowsy effect does display tolerance buildup. Thus, idiots using them to get high have to take more, hence the addiction hazard. I found that benzos are useless unless used very rarely to avoid tolerance buildup, and hence, a normally 3 month prescription will last me for years to come as a strategically significant drug. The strategic significance comes from use only for rare cases where being un-nervous is imperative, like verbal abuse by a boss I have a cold war with. Just gotta love that cold war mentality. This cold war warps relationships with others as these third parties though innocent have a stake in it remaining stable, particularly a brother of that boss I have the cold war with. (blatant nepotism) Innocent third parties could be financially destroyed if this cold war destabilises. I recently had a crisis with this cold war, sort of a cuban missile crisis case. This crisis is still ongoing, so I’m in a status of high alert. The brother of the boss is the prime suspect for this most recent crisis with the cold war I have. The stakes are high, being financial destruction of me and the boss in question from massive lawsuits. That boss’s brother was unaware of this cold war until now when I told him in no uncertain terms what can happen if it destabilises. The boss will be sued back into the stone age when the fireworks fly and likely fired. Becuse of this cold war, the avoidance of tolerance buildup of a benzo is of considerable strategic importance. The drug’s strategic importance comes from psych evals on purpose, visiting lawyers, etc. as the war escalates into financial armageddon. Friday, I was at DEFCON 2, packing some hits awaiting verbal abuse by the boss to drop before entering the office. I’m just waiting for the first strike to sue the fucking chimp back to the stone age. — FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run. The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust. The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.

Response:

Dave J. (Scoop0901) (sco…@newsguy.com) wrote: : Sometimes you actually need things a little bigger (clothes and shoes come to : mind, quickly, especially after the holidays), more complex (tests to diagnose : apnea, narcolepsy, or other disorders which aren’t easily diagnosed today), or : more violent (a rescue attempt, for example). Even worse, in some cases, medical matters become strategically important. The best example is with Xanax, a benzo, which I have and use. In this case, tolerance buildup becomes important as supply is finite and I have a cold war with a boss. (see previous posting about this cold war) As a cold warrior, I can’t allow tolerance buildup as situations can arise where being un-anxious is the imperative due to the cold war I’m engaged in. This is a case where strategic considerations have to be made involving medical treatment. DIY Medicine is part of my personal defence as a result. In the case of benzos, the supply is finite and is useful for defence purposes, so I use it as little as possible. For normal situations (DEFCON 5) an alternative that is OTC can be used, diphenhydramine. I only pack a few hits of the Xanax for when the cold war of mine gets unstable when I’ll need it the most. The diphenhydramine can’t be used for severe situations though it stops night panic attacks well in my case. Thus, a stockpile of Xanax is strategic. — FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run. The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust. The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.

Response:

What are the symptoms of withdrawal from a benzodiazepine?  I wonder if I would have any if I suddenly stopped taking Ambien after 1-2 yrs of 5 mg./night (and more, lately)?  I know that Ambien is not in the benzo class, but I wonder if there are physical withdrawal symptoms?  I know for sure that it is very hard – mentally – to give it up.

Response:

I had to come of 3Mg of Clonazepam (brand name here is Rivotril) for open heart surgery.  I tapered down but it was not easy with very badly disturbed sleep even with PAP.  Good news four weeks after Aortic valve replacement with an ATS valve I am recovering as well as can be expected. Incidently the FDA has recently approved the ATS valve and I would highly recommend that everyone should at least ask their surgeon about its use.  It has a lower noise level which is great for us bad sleepers and is supposed to have better flow characteristics. Needles to say I am back on 3Mg nightly of Clonazepam and it certainly helps me sleep better together with PAP. John "Bunster2" <bunst…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20010106072347.21744.00000126@ng-cp1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

x-no-archive: yes Yes I am withdrawing consulting a dr. and there is no easy way for those

of us

sensitive to these drugs. Symptoms are your basic withdrawal ones (like from heroin only these last

for

months or some people claim, years):  can’t sleep, can’t focus, entire

body

aches, jittery and anxious, startle response to noise and light,

depression.  I

guess since the benzos kind of damp down your nervous system, when you go

off

them you get an extreme opposite cuz your nervous system is over excited.

So

everything you took it for that it helped you with at one time, you get

the

opposite in spades. Lovely <being sarcastic I’m really annoyed that nowhere is there even a MENTION of habituation or withdrawal or possible addiction on the info from the pharmacy! Apparently there is a big lawsuit looming against the drug manufacturers

in

England, I believe it is.

Response:

LizB wrote:

   I don’t understand this.  I thought that tolerance was one of the hallmarks of an addiction – needing more of the drug to obtain the same effect?

An addict may develop tolerance to a drug, however just because you develop tolerance to a drug does not make you an addict. — Magesteff  - "Imagination is more important than knowledge."-Albert Einstein ——————————————————– Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,

Question:

Funkygir…@webtv.net wrote:

Just got back from my first consult, it didn’t take him long to decide that I need treatment and that the sleep study is necessary, that is scheduled for July 7 & 8 and they are doing it during the time I usually sleep, I have to be there @ 4 AM. They also put me on the cancellation list.

It’s great that they’re doing the test during your normal sleeping hours, and it may help you get an earlier cancellation. My sleep lab normally schedules people in the early evening, and tell me that they don’t usually know that they’ll have a spare bed until someone fails to show up. It can be as late as 10:00 before they start calling people on the cancellation list, too late for many people to make it, but you’d have plenty of time to get ready and go.

The doctor asked my husband almost ALL of the questions

Untreated apneics aren’t usually the best judge of their condition. I thought I was sleeping just fine, and was only mildly depressed, my wife knew better.

and pointed out to me that my right leg is swollen and it is because of my heart working too hard and fluid being backed up……something else that I didn’t know.

Are you also making several trips to the bathroom every night?  

He also said, cut back on the smoking and drinking (go figure).

That’s more than just Typical Doctor Advice. Alcohol relaxes your muscles and makes your apnea worse. Nicotine is a stimulant, and makes it harder to get to sleep in the first place. I’d avoid alcohol, especially in the evenings, until you get your cancellation. You might be relying on a drink or two to help you sleep, and they won’t let you do that at the sleep lab.

All in all I am soooo glad that this is getting started. I am on my way!!!!

Sounds like you’re all set. You have the motivation, the right attitude, support from your family, and this group to help you through any rough spots. Just sit there and wait for the phone to ring. Tom

Response:

Are you also making several trips to the bathroom every night?<

Sure am Tom…….going about every hour or hour and a half, just thought it was my pb meds, guess not huh??

Response:

Funkygir…@webtv.net wrote:

Are you also making several trips to the bathroom every night?< Sure am Tom…….going about every hour or hour and a half, just thought it was my pb meds, guess not huh??

I assume that you’re taking a diuretic?  That might be a factor, but the link between Nocturia and OSA is well documented. http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/news/sa_Urination.htm Tom

Response:

On Fri, 31 May 2002 17:16:16 -0400 (EDT), Funkygir…@webtv.net wrote:

Are you also making several trips to the bathroom every night?< Sure am Tom…….going about every hour or hour and a half, just thought it was my pb meds, guess not huh??

That’s OSA. Blood-pressure diuretics (which have their effect more by shedding salt as opposed to water) are supposed to be taken in the morning so they wear off by bedtime. I take HCTZ myself and I typically wake up only once. But, before OSA, I was notoriouis about waking up. — Found elsewhere on USENET: "yes invite more — but PLEASSSSSSSE NOT Jjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjulie"

Response:

Just got back from my first consult, it didn’t take him long to decide that I need treatment and that the sleep study is necessary, that is scheduled for July 7 & 8 and they are doing it during the time I usually sleep, I have to be there @ 4 AM. They also put me on the cancellation list. The doctor asked my husband almost ALL of the questions and pointed out to me that my right leg is swollen and it is because of my heart working too hard and fluid being backed up……something else that I didn’t know. He also said, cut back on the smoking and drinking (go figure). All in all I am soooo glad that this is getting started. I am on my way!!!! Tom- funny enough, there is a doctor in the group of sleep specialists that I am going to named Thomas R. Devlin………thanks for all your help!!! Cindy

Response:

Hey y’all, my first consult with the sleep specialist is later this a.m.(11:30) I have filled out the forms they sent and they are ready. If there is anything anyone can think of that I need to ask, please let me know, I am going to check in here right before I leave. I am taking my hubby with me, almost ready to take the kids (teenagers) too so they can tell him what a lethargic mama I am!!! I am somewhat nervous, but very excited to get the process started so that we can have some relief. I know that this affects my whole family in that I do not function like a normal person (i.e. napping till the last possible moment and making someone late for whatever it is they need to do). I know you all are with me and I appreciate having found this group. THANKS A BUNCH!!!!!!! Cindy

Response:

Funkygir…@webtv.net wrote:

Hey y’all, my first consult with the sleep specialist is later this a.m.(11:30) I have filled out the forms they sent and they are ready. If there is anything anyone can think of that I need to ask, please let me know, I am going to check in here right before I leave.

The doctor will ask most of the questions. You might want to ask about a prescription sleep aid, like Ambien, for the sleep test if you have trouble sleeping in strange places.

I am taking my hubby with me,

Excellent!  His description of your sleeping behavior will be invaluable. Don’t be surprised if he ends up answering at least as many questions as you do. The details of my consultation are hazy, (this _was_ pre-CPAP <g

) but I think my wife did most of the talking. almost ready to take the kids (teenagers) too so they can tell him what a lethargic mama I am!!!

Mention this to your doctor, to point out how it’s affecting your family, and so the doctor knows that you have everybody’s support.

I am somewhat nervous, but very excited to get the process started so that we can have some relief.

There’s nothing to be nervous about, you’ll talk for a bit, get a brief physical exam, and (almost certainly, given your symptoms) get your appointment for the sleep test. If the first available night for your test is some time away, very common lately, than ask about getting on the Cancellation List. Tell them that you’ll keep a bag packed and be ready to go at a moment’s notice.

I know that this affects my whole family in that I do not function like a normal person (i.e. napping till the last possible moment and making someone late for whatever it is they need to do).

Be sure to mention this as well, and anything else that helps build your case for getting the test. Good luck, and please let us know how it went. Tom

Response:

Question:

Do yo?? Are you the one delivering the machine? "Anna LeBlanc" <lebla…@qwest.net

wrote in message

news:BD6E6C20.1A664%leblancr@qwest.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Yes Jimmy, Many of us here feel that CPAP is very useful for treating sleep apnea. It is  a weird thing to do, however, and few people immediately love the

thing.

It feels most unnatural. There are many little problems to solve. These

are

problems which are not medical, so the answers don’t come from doctors.

Many

of us who have overcome problems, and received help from others on this mailing list. If you can describe any problems, probably someone here can help. Do I remember that your father was given a CPAP machine? Anna in article nu22d.197250$mD.84782@attbi_s02, Jimmy zhang at crack…@comcast.net wrote on 9/15/04 2:28 PM: does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful piece of equipment for sleep apnea?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alan Schaefer wrote:

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night.

Do you have a heated humidifier? This makes all the difference for me.  I have a deviated septum with some chronic congestion. Before CPAP if I turned on my side in bed my nose would immediately block up. With the heated humidifier I wake up (sometimes on my side) with my nose clearer than its ever been.  I tried it with the humidifier off and the difference is remarkable. I really look forward to sleeping now. It takes a while so the trick is to be able to breathe enough just to get to sleep.  Maybe saline nose spray? It’s rather counterintuitive that it takes moist air to clear your nose.

2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin.

I have a shortly trimmed mustache and can relate to this.  I very quickly went from a mask to nasal pillows.  First the Breeze, which was better than the poorly fitting mask I started with, but still not the solution due to the "C" clamp design (the shell still pressed against my upper lip). Then the CPAP/PRO which is nasal pillows attached to a mouth guard that fits your upper teeth. The CPAP/PRO was great (no contact with upper lip and NO headgear) but required a bit of maintenance and you *have* to brush your teeth before going to bed… Then the ADAMS with the custom Conjo headgear.  This I’ve used for almost a year now and it’s the best so far. With some careful positioning there is no contact with my mustache. With less careful positioning there is minimal contact that is, at most, a minor annoyance.  Another major advantage of this setup is that it is practically indestructable and very low maintenance. Also very secure for moving around while sleeping. Downside: it has headgear. The new resmed nasal interface looks and sounds interesting but I’m waiting for some more first hand opinions on it before trying.

3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien.

Hopefully this will pass as you acclimate to it and gradually minimize all the annoyances.  I said it above and I’ll say it again, it’s been about 2 years and I really look forward to going to sleep every night.  Not because I’m that tired but because it just feels so good.

If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated.

Hang in there. -Quick

Response:

I too, had a heck of a time when I first got my CPAP machine.  During my sleep study I woke up with a panic attack after a couple of hours with a mask, and I could not put the mask on again.  Fortunately, I was able to sleep long enough before the panic attack for the technician to get my pressure.  As a result of the panic attack, the people at the  CPAP place suggested I start with a Nasal-Aire instead of a mask.  I began by wearing it one hour a day, while awake, using the ramp function on my machine.  I slowly worked my way up from there over a matter of a couple of weeks. The first 2 weeks at night were truly a nightmare.  I could not sleep with the Nasal-Aire.  I could not even put on a full mask.  And once I knew I had sleep apnea, if I fell asleep without the CPAP, as soon as I stopped breathing (which was as soon as I fell asleep), I woke up with my heart racing.  For the first couple of weeks, I was getting a couple hours of broken sleep per night.  But due to the necessity of having to use the machine, I persisted. Well, since then I have grown accustomed to the CPAP and I have logged over 5000 hours, primarily using the Nasal-Aire.  I occasionally use a mask now, but I find that because of my mustache and nasal congestion, the Nasal-Aire works better for 2 reasons: 1)  Unlike a mask, the Nasal-Air fits right in the nostrils.  There is no seal on the upper lip for my mustache to interfere with. 2)  Because the Nasal-Air puts pressure only on the inside of my nose, and not the outside of my face, the device inflates my nasal passages somewhat, making breathing much easier.  No more mouth breathing! I can wear my glasses with the Nasal-Aire, no problem. There are a couple of drawbacks, though.  I have to use a chinstrap with Nasal-Aire.  Not to hold my mouth closed, but to hold the Nasal-Air in place.  Because there is no headgear, it had a tendency to move before I got creative with hose routing and the chinstrap. I have tried a couple of other masks over time, and I have not found anything better than Nasal-Aire.  Maybe you should ask your health care people about it. "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

Yes Jimmy, Many of us here feel that CPAP is very useful for treating sleep apnea. It is  a weird thing to do, however, and few people immediately love the thing. It feels most unnatural. There are many little problems to solve. These are problems which are not medical, so the answers don’t come from doctors. Many of us who have overcome problems, and received help from others on this mailing list. If you can describe any problems, probably someone here can help. Do I remember that your father was given a CPAP machine? Anna in article nu22d.197250$mD.84782@attbi_s02, Jimmy zhang at crack…@comcast.net wrote on 9/15/04 2:28 PM: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful piece of equipment for sleep apnea?

Response:

Unfortunately, it’s  the only *most effective* treatment aside from a trach. "Jimmy zhang" <crack…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:nu22d.197250$mD.84782@attbi_s02… : does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful : piece of equipment for sleep apnea?

Response:

Kevin D wrote:

I have congestion problems, too. Humidification is vital for me. I also use a nasal irrigation device every day or two and that helps to keep everything opened up

The homecare company is bringing me a warm humidification unit on Saturday. Yea! I hope it helps! Can you tell me more about the nasal irrigation device? Maybe that’s something I can look in to. Thanks, Al

Response:

"Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:414A48BA.1050608@NOSPAMcomcast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kevin D wrote: I have congestion problems, too. Humidification is vital for me. I also

use

a nasal irrigation device every day or two and that helps to keep

everything

opened up The homecare company is bringing me a warm humidification unit on Saturday. Yea! I hope it helps! Can you tell me more about the nasal irrigation device? Maybe that’s something I can look in to. Thanks, Al

Here is what I have been using. http://www.hydromedonline.com/hp.html This company also makes what they call a lavage system. Essentially, you mix up the saline in a squirt bottle and squeeze it up your nose. You can also check with some pharmacies for nasal irrigation products such as a neti pot. Old fashioned and simple, but cheap and some swear by them. CPAP has been a blessing for me, but it is hard to breathe (and sleep!) with clogged sinuses. Just don’t irrigate immediately before bed. The saline can drain unexpectedly. Not pleasant in a nasal mask. Give it an hour or two to clear before lying down. Kevin — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 – Release Date: 9/13/04

Response:

nasal irrigation image   http://www.sanvic.com/photo/step17.JPG they have got fancy…… i had a plunger sort of rubber thingy that i just sprayed lots of water thru my nose and cleaned out the build up mucus tissue (from surgery i had) now you have a special "water pick" version of the same thing…… idea….. lots of water running thru your nostrils to clean out the debris there was something that i sprayed after the saline wash……  glycerine water???/ something to assist the scilia in recovering from the saline solution sprayed up the sinuses can you tell i was NOT impressed with any of it??????? the humidifier and a kleenex did FAR MORE than the irrigation devices for me kate "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:414A48BA.1050608@NOSPAMcomcast.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kevin D wrote: I have congestion problems, too. Humidification is vital for me. I also

use

a nasal irrigation device every day or two and that helps to keep

everything

opened up The homecare company is bringing me a warm humidification unit on Saturday. Yea! I hope it helps! Can you tell me more about the nasal irrigation device? Maybe that’s something I can look in to. Thanks, Al

Response:

Overall – yes Is it a major inconvenience and pain in the ass – HELL YES! Should there be a better solution – HELL YES! Does it beat current alternatives – Unfortunately, yes. regards, eric pearson nonono.ericp1.non…@nonono.fuse.net On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:28:52 GMT, "Jimmy zhang" <crack…@comcast.net

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful piece of equipment for sleep apnea? "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net wrote in message news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

oh definitely!!!!!!!!!! even if it did take me close to 6 months to ‘adapt’ or ‘adjust’ to using CPAP…. i can’t look back now….. i need my CPAP to fall asleep and i feel SO much better for it if there is a power outtage at night, i immediately wake up uncomfortable without the CPAP kate "Jimmy zhang" <crack…@comcast.net

wrote in message

news:nu22d.197250$mD.84782@attbi_s02… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful > piece of equipment for sleep apnea? > "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

> news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… > > Hello. > > I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! > > I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time > > getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours > > with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: > > "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear > > glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the > > bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. > > I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: > > 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose > > difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help > > much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, > > so I can’t take them at night. > > 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the > > mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like > > pushing a brush into one’s skin. > > 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put > > the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This > > is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. > > If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Al

Response:

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:28:52 GMT, Jimmy zhang wrote:

does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful piece of equipment for sleep apnea?

For some people, the difference is dramatic. (I was one of them.)

Response:

does people feel that, overall, CPAP is a useful piece of equipment for sleep apnea? "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

"Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

I have congestion problems, too. Humidification is vital for me. I also use a nasal irrigation device every day or two and that helps to keep everything opened up. I am using the Ultra Mirage, but it took some tinkering with the headgear adjustments to find the fit that works for me. Do not give up too soon. Kevin — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.762 / Virus Database: 510 – Release Date: 9/13/04

Response:

I have a little over 200 hours on CPAP. I have gone from mask to nasal pillows with success. But allergy problems in Nashville required my changing from prescription Flonaise to NasacortAQ with improved results. I also use a humidifier. When I am all hooked up I wear my glasses and can watch television since there is no mask, just an airway and two pillows at my nostrils. You are causing some of your mask problem with your mustache. Very difficult to make an airproof seal through a bed of hair! "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message

news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

I forgot to mention to the OP the nose pillows, which some people like. There is also the Oracle mouth device for those with truly blocked nose passages. BTW, I have a moustache and beard, and for me, these do not cause any problems with mask air seal – the leaks generally happen elsewhere… —  David Ruether  r…@cornell.edu  http://www.ferrario.com/ruether – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Nashville Pete" <poremskinos…@comcast.net

wrote in message news:ufidnfT009ojmtrcRVn-ow@comcast.com… I have a little over 200 hours on CPAP. I have gone from mask to nasal pillows with success. But allergy problems in Nashville required my changing from prescription Flonaise to NasacortAQ with improved results. I also use a humidifier. When I am all hooked up I wear my glasses and can watch television since there is no mask, just an airway and two pillows at my nostrils. You are causing some of your mask problem with your mustache. Very difficult to make an airproof seal through a bed of hair! "Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net wrote in message news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alan Schaefer <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message <news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Al, I can identify 100% with you on this. Chronic congestion, leaking mask, and feeling wide awake once I put on the mask. Decongestants, even if I take them first thing in the morning, keep me up all night. I will say that people here have been very supportive and I’m planning to hang in there. I have noticed that as poorly as I sleep, every few days I actually get a few hours of more restful sleep. One thing thats helped me is that if I don’t fall asleep after 30 minutes. I take the mask off. Then when I wake up the first time (usually after an hour, I put the mak back on. It’s usually easier to fall back to sleep that get to sleep. Good luck! Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Alan Schaefer" <adschae…@NOSPAMcomcast.net

wrote in message news:Bt-dnX5SRMJ56dvcRVn-uA@comcast.com… I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Most people do have problems adjusting to the CPAP gear, and those problems mostly involve the interface (the mask). Perhaps some like the gel type contact, but the rolled-edge "landing-craft" type may be more comfortable, since it does not require high strap pressure to seal fairly well (and they seal better with lower strap pressure). Good light/small ones are the Resmed Ultra Mirage and the Respironics Comfort Select (among others). If leakage with movement is a problem, the bigger/heavier Resmed Activa works well. It takes a while to get all this stuff right. BTW, do not block the mask vents (you can often turn the hose to direct the air stream direction from the vents). I started with the Comfort Select (having been a "nose-breather" from chronically stuffed nose at night) and it took about three nights of frustrating minor strap adjustments (done only when down on the pillow!) to get those right, and to realize that the mask contact area and then the skin contact area needed to be wiped with a wet paper towel every time the mask was put on. The mask tends to ride too high when casually placed – I find I need to lower it after placing it on to prevent leaks at my eyes and to get good clearance near my nostrals, and to accept that final fitting is done with "mask-pillow scunches" (all this gets better with time…). To my surprise, I no longer nose breathed at night and the nose-stuffing went away with the CPAP use (I guess from the filtered air source, and from the drying effect of the air), but I soon began to have excessive nose drying and pain even with the use of a passive humidifier – and within three weeks my nose was painful and cracking inside (winter time, with low humidity). A heated humidifier was essential for me – but these are hard to get the insurance to pay for until the passive one fails you. BTW, if your mask leaks, more air passes through, increasing drying at the leakage points (and the humidifier water level goes down faster than usual). You will need a hose insulator (about $15 for Conjo from www.cpapman.com) to (mostly) avoid having too much condensation inside the hose (with water running into the face which does tend to wake one…!;-) when using a heated humidifier. All was "happy" with the above with me for a while, and then my nose mask became difficult to deal with again. I bought a second (different) nose mask on eBay, and switching the two masks off every few nights worked well for several months, but then my mouth-breathing returned… It is a "pain" if this happens. An improvised chin strap did not work (but it may for some), and masking tape (ONLY the kind that does not stick very well, and allows the mouth to open easily, held in place with a loose sweat band!) was the only thing that did work with the nose masks for me. I then tried a full-face mask, which only works for me pulled in very tightly (compared with the loose-fitted nose masks), with much "tucking and fitting" after the struggle to strap it on, but it did work (though, oddly, I do not mouth-breathe with it on…!;-). Also oddly, I can now alternate the full face mask every few days with the lighter of my two nose masks, and the nose mask again works fine for a few days without the tape. It’s all a mystery – you just need to find what works best for you…;-) After the first struggles, I now do tend to go to sleep immediately after fitting the mask on (even the FF one, which is difficult and frustrating to put on, even now). Though this is not recommended, I watch TV in bed until I feel like sleep (with the gear set up, the humidifier on, and the mask and face having been wiped), then remove my glasses and "install" the mask… At first, I did not sleep well, then I did, but only for 4.5-5.5 hours/day, but now I get 6-10 hours/day. I NEVER sleep without the CPAP gear – I feel terrible for days afterward if I sleep even a couple of hours without it (my sleep apnea is severe). Good luck with this – and you may prevent some heart nasties and brain damage, both in the short term and in the long term, by using the CPAP gear… —  David Ruether  r…@cornell.edu  http://www.ferrario.com/ruether

Response:

Hello. I’m glad I discovered this group. What a wonderful resource! I recently started using a CPAP machine but I’m having a heck of a time getting used to it. In fact, I haven’t made it more than a few hours with the mask on. The sleep center’s advice on the topic was useless: "Wear the mask while you’re watching TV to get used to it." Since I wear glasses, I can’t see the TV with the mask on, and the mask goes up the bridge of the nose blocking vision anyway. I seem to have three main difficulties with adjusting to the CPAP: 1) I’m chronically congested, making breathing through my nose difficult. I’ve tried using nasal spray, but it doesn’t seem to help much. I’m very sensitive to the "exicitabilty" effect of decongestants, so I can’t take them at night. 2) If I make the straps tight enough to keep the air from leaking, the mask (gel) presses down on my mustache hard enough that it feels like pushing a brush into one’s skin. 3) No matter how tired I feel at the time I go to bed, as soon as I put the mask on I feel wide awake and don’t seem able to fall asleep. This is true even if I take a sleep aid like Ambien. If anyone has any advice, it would truly be appreciated. Thanks, Al

Response:

I’ve been diagnosed with OSA after a sleep study.  Fortunately, it seems to be relatively mild: in the 5 hours that I slept I had 22 episodes of SA, and the oxygen level never got below 90%.  I have been feeling very dragged out in the morning for years, and sleepy during the day.  I’m considering CPAP and UPPP, but wanted to give CPAP a try at first, to see what a good night’s sleep felt like.  I got the CPAP last Thursday (a Respironics), and am still trying to adjust.  The last few nights I’ve been able to sleep the whole night with the mask, but still feel just as tired out in the morning (if not more so), than I did before.  Also, I’m still fiddling the the mask, and have been waking up with big red marks on the bridge of my nose which last the whole day.  My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect at first? — Victor S. Miller              | " … Meanwhile, those of us who can compute vic…@ccr-p.ida.org          | can hardly be expected to keep writing papers CCR, Princeton, NJ 08540      | saying ‘I can do the following useless                               | calculation in 2 seconds’, and indeed what                               | editor would publish them?"  – Oliver Atkin

Response:

Victor, I have found the trick with a Respironics mask is to have the foam nose bridge small than you would think it should be.  After two years of useing the size I was fitted with I was given a Pack of one of each size.  By moving down a size my forehead is now pimple free.  Good Luck — keith woodworth   |  Floggings will continue, until morale improves. Houston, Texas    |  These are my options, nobody else would want them.                   |  How many days till November 5, 1996

Response:

vic…@ccr-p.ida.org (Victor Miller) wrote:

 My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it

doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect at first? —

Try a humiidifier, this cured the dry nose problem for me. Jim The proceding opinions are only mine. I’m an Afa driving, PC loving sun of a gun. "P.S., I have a QuickTime movie of a PC being run over with a steamroller, but, uh, you’ll have to get your Mac running to see it … " squ…@applelink.apple.com

Response:

Victor Miller (vic…@ccr-p.ida.org) wrote:

: I’ve been diagnosed with OSA after a sleep study.  Fortunately, it : seems to be relatively mild: in the 5 hours that I slept I had 22 : episodes of SA, and the oxygen level never got below 90%.  I have been : feeling very dragged out in the morning for years, and sleepy during : the day.  I’m considering CPAP and UPPP, but wanted to give CPAP a try : at first, to see what a good night’s sleep felt like.  I got the CPAP : last Thursday (a Respironics), and am still trying to adjust.  The : last few nights I’ve been able to sleep the whole night with the mask, : but still feel just as tired out in the morning (if not more so), than : I did before.  Also, I’m still fiddling the the mask, and have been : waking up with big red marks on the bridge of my nose which last the : whole day.  My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it : doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect : at first? : — : Victor S. Miller              | " … Meanwhile, those of us who can compute : vic…@ccr-p.ida.org          | can hardly be expected to keep writing papers : CCR, Princeton, NJ 08540      | saying ‘I can do the following useless :                               | calculation in 2 seconds’, and indeed what :                               | editor would publish them?"  – Oliver Atkin :   :   Hi- The masks are a pain and never got better! BUT- nasal pillows make all the difference in the world. No more red marks, air blowing in my eye, sore upper lip and front teeth, etc. And a humidifier attachment took care of the dried out/stuffed up feeling. Good luck with it- Susan —                                              polit…@netcom.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <VICTOR.94Dec27120…@tang.ccr-p.ida.org

, vic…@ccr-p.ida.org (Victor Miller) writes: I’ve been diagnosed with OSA after a sleep study.  Fortunately, it seems to be relatively mild: in the 5 hours that I slept I had 22 episodes of SA, and the oxygen level never got below 90%.  I have been feeling very dragged out in the morning for years, and sleepy during the day.  I’m considering CPAP and UPPP, but wanted to give CPAP a try at first, to see what a good night’s sleep felt like.  I got the CPAP last Thursday (a Respironics), and am still trying to adjust.  The last few nights I’ve been able to sleep the whole night with the mask, but still feel just as tired out in the morning (if not more so), than I did before.  Also, I’m still fiddling the the mask, and have been waking up with big red marks on the bridge of my nose which last the whole day.  My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect at first? — Victor S. Miller              | " … Meanwhile, those of us who can compute vic…@ccr-p.ida.org          | can hardly be expected to keep writing papers CCR, Princeton, NJ 08540      | saying ‘I can do the following useless                              | calculation in 2 seconds’, and indeed what                              | editor would publish them?"  – Oliver Atkin

Victor, If your post of 22 OA events during a 5-hour sleep period with oxygen desaturation down to only 90% I think I might ask for a second oppinion. I may be a little rusty but worked a sleep lab for about 20 years.  As I remember five or fewer apneas per hour of sleep was within normal limits. With your 5 hours of sleep you could have 25 events and be WNL.  I’m not surprized that you’re not feeling alot better as I don’t think you really have a problem.  I think the CPAP may be premature for you and would try other things to reduce your apnea if you really want to, like sleeping position management, weight loss as appropriate, alcohol restriction, etc. But again, from what you’ve posted, I don’t see a real problem. Matthew Sinclair – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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In message <politicsD1IEL1….@netcom.com

– polit…@netcom.com (Wachob) write

s:

Hi- The masks are a pain and never got better! BUT- nasal pillows make all the difference in the world. No more red marks, air blowing in my eye, sore upper lip and front teeth, etc. And a humidifier attachment took care of the dried out/stuffed up feeling. Good luck with it- Susan —                                             polit…@netcom.com

Susan, What is this humidifier attachment you mentioned?  How does it work?  What does is attach too?  I’m going in for my study in a couple weeks and if I need a CPAP it would help me if I knew something about them beforehand. Do you (or anyone else) have a particular brand/model you can recommend? Thanks, Dave

Response:

James Watkin <wat…@mic.ucla.edu

wrote: vic…@ccr-p.ida.org (Victor Miller) writes: My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect at first? According to a book on sleep disorders, this is a normal reaction and there are prescription nasal sprays to help avoid this. Some doctors prescribe them to everyone starting CPAP. I believe the book states that most patients can come off these nasal sprays after a couple of weeks but some have to continue using them.

I’m not actually using a cpap (yet; waiting on Kaiser), but there was a post some time ago that I think mentioned that they went back and got their pressure re-adjusted (lowered) and that eliminated this sort of problem. Might be something to try, and perhaps something that not all the sleep docs or techs are savvy about. tec

Response:

In article <VICTOR.94Dec27120…@tang.ccr-p.ida.org

vic…@ccr-p.ida.org (Victor Miller) writes:

My nose also feels very stuffed in the morning (which it doesn’t when I go to sleep).  Is this something that I should expect at first?

According to a book on sleep disorders, this is a normal reaction and there are prescription nasal sprays to help avoid this. Some doctors prescribe them to everyone starting CPAP. I believe the book states that most patients can come off these nasal sprays after a couple of weeks but some have to continue using them. Against my doctor’s advice, I decided not to take the spray because I was concerned about its potential side-effects since it’s steroid based. I also have stopped using my humidifier since it seems to cause my nose to  instantly congest. I haven’t done enough testing to absolutely confirm this as the cause, but since I don’t have any problem with dryness while not using it, I’ve decided to stop using it. I also imagine that proper filtration should be followed to help eliminate potential causes of irritation. When I got my CPAP machine the tech didn’t give me any cloth (or paper?) filters and told me that I didn’t need to use them, that just the outer sponge filter was good enough. The equipment’s documentation contradicted her so I insisted on getting some filters. Since I began using CPAP a couple of months ago, I’ve become reacquainted with the fact that I seem to spend most of my waking and sleeping hours with some congestion. I recall now having this problem all my life but I had "tuned it out" until recently. But I find that nasal CPAP seems to be effective even with partial congestion. James Watkin

Response:

Dave Beckstrom (DBE…@139.51.193.31) wrote:

: In message <politicsD1IEL1….@netcom.com

– polit…@netcom.com (Wachob) write

: s: :

Hi-

:

:

The masks are a pain and never got better! BUT- nasal pillows make all

:

the difference in the world. No more red marks, air blowing in my eye,

:

sore upper lip and front teeth, etc.

:

:

And a humidifier attachment took care of the dried out/stuffed up feeling.

:

:

Good luck with it-

:

:

Susan

:

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                                            polit…@netcom.com

: Susan, : What is this humidifier attachment you mentioned?  How does it work?  What : does is attach too?  I’m going in for my study in a couple weeks and if I : need a CPAP it would help me if I knew something about them beforehand. : Do you (or anyone else) have a particular brand/model you can recommend? : Thanks, : Dave Hi Dave- Yup, the more you know, the better. I knew exactly nothing and ended up spending a lot of money on the mask and set up before I finally got the nasal pillows instead. If I were starting out again,I would ask for the nasal pillows and bypass the mask. I’ve heard lots of people, besides myself, with problems with the mask and never anyone with problems with the nasal pillows. The humidifier is an attachment to the machine itself so that the air that you breathe goes through (or more acurately, I think, over the surface of) the water before you breather it. For those on anti-depressants and other situations in which your mouth or throat is dry, the humidifier is great. I imagine just using the CPAP without any other reason to be dried out would be drying anyway- but I don’t know that for sure. I can’t remember the brand that I use. I don’t know if there are differences or not. It’s really up to the doctor to prescribe the CPAP, nasal pillows or mask, humidifier, etc- but it would be helpful to know what you’d prefer and discuss it with him/her instead of being totally at his/her mercy. I hope someone else can help you with specifics on brands. Take care- and hope you can finally get some good sleep!! Susan —                                              polit…@netcom.com

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Question:

Just totally second-hand, but when I explained to a doctor about my (now ex) boyfriend’s tendency to stay awake due to this "racing thoughts" issue, she said it was symptomatic of an anxiety disorder. She didn’t elaborate, and I didn’t ask, as frankly I wasn’t dating him any longer and didn’t care if he got a good night’s sleep anymore. I just told her about his experience as a part of some anecdotal recounting of information about my sleep habits. (I.e. I slept horribly next to this guy because he was tossing and turning so much and fretting over these thoughts racing through his head.) Cat — The Cat House http://www.feline.org Phone+Fax: 877.278.8075

Response:

Here’s a tip to get you to sleep despite racing thoughts. Find a mantra (any word, best are one sylable non-sense words in my mind) and when you are trying to sleep and your mind is racing, just repeat it until you go to sleep. Eventually your mind will associate that word with sleep and it will help you greatly, but nmake sure you stick to the word. — none "Dale" <replt…@newsgroup.please

wrote in message

news:0n0k9t4ok14su2qsb9jhi196d6cltlf4dk@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thoughts race through my mind and prevent me from sleeping also I have jerkey movements of parts of my body can someone tell Me what this could be? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

In my own experience I have concluded that the mind racing I experienced in the past was a result of serious sleep deprivation as I have not experienced this symptom since adjusting to wearing my CPAP all night long.  With sleep apnea I have read over and over that people with undiagnosed sleep apnea will fall asleep while in meetings, watching tv, driving, etc. but I never experienced this as when I was overtired I often became what I refer to as "wired" – have difficulty slowing down, relaxing, or avoiding my thoughts racing when trying to sleep. IMHO sounds like you could be suffering some sleep deprivation and have restless legs syndrome but that’s just my opinion.  If this is troubling you enough to post here I would think that this would warrant getting checked out by a physician.  Insist on a sleep test as otherwise you may be labeled as having a mental health issue as seems to happen frequently as sleep disorders seem to be a frontier many doctors have little information on. Best of luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dale wrote:

Thoughts race through my mind and prevent me from sleeping also I have jerkey movements of parts of my body can someone tell Me what this could be? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Thoughts race through my mind and prevent me from sleeping also I have jerkey movements of parts of my body can someone tell Me what this could be? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

The thoughts racing through the mind thing is common, especially in people who just normally have an active mind. That’s what’s good about drugs like Ambien; they stomp out thoughts long enough to allow the conscious mind to clock out for the night and let the night shift take over. Jerky movements can be a sign of a problem such as ‘busy legs’ as I’ve often heard it called. If you consistently have difficulty sleeping because of either of these things, you should consider a sleep study. It is very detailed and can tell you things about yourself you didn’t even know. (It’s the one time in your 24-hour day when you know the least about yourself – when you are asleep.) tod "Dale" <replt…@newsgroup.please

wrote in message

news:0n0k9t4ok14su2qsb9jhi196d6cltlf4dk@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Thoughts race through my mind and prevent me from sleeping also I have jerkey movements of parts of my body can someone tell Me what this could be? —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Question:

i know i’m probably addicted or something like that.  i’ve been having a hard time sleeping lately, so for the past month, i’ve been taking something to help me sleep.  it’ll usually be simply sleep, tylenol pm, benedryl, cold medicine….  usually 2-3 pills a night. now on the nights i don’t take anything, it’s not just like i can’t sleep, but i become very panic.  i feel like i’m going to have a panic attack.  anybody experience this before?  i hope they’ll go away.  maybe its withdrawls or something. i know there’s prescription drugs out there that are probably safer like ambien,  but aren’t they still addictive.  maybe i’m wrong.  maybe you just build up a tolerence for them.  but i’d hate for them to have withdrawls. ps, i’d also like to say that I just got over the flu.  the pharmicist recommended TheraFlu Nightime as the best otc flu med.  Woah that stuff had me in another world for 2 days….that stuff was way too strong, what in the world is in that stuff…i could have been laying naked in a field of daisys along the beach being plucked by seaguls and i still wouldn’t even have known it. snowflake

Response:

On 08 Apr 2002 02:55:20 GMT, snowflake3…@aol.com (Snowflake3003) wrote:

ps, i’d also like to say that I just got over the flu.  the pharmicist recommended TheraFlu Nightime as the best otc flu med.  Woah that stuff had me in another world for 2 days….

The flu itself probably didn’t help any.

that stuff was way too strong, what in the world is in that stuff…

Acetaminophen (1000mg) Pseudoephedrine HCI (60mg) Dextromethorphan HBr (30mg) Chlorpheniramine Maleate (4mg) All four of them pretty much standard doses of the above. None of those should knock somebody out THAT much (now, if it was the active ingredient in Benadryl, that can be used as a sleeping pill!). — Things would be a lot happier on Sesame Street if they’d just toss some Zoloft in Oscar the Grouch’s trashcan.

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snowflake3…@aol.com (Snowflake3003) wrote:

i know i’m probably addicted or something like that.  i’ve been having a hard time sleeping lately, so for the past month, i’ve been taking something to help me sleep.  it’ll usually be simply sleep, tylenol pm, benedryl, cold medicine….  usually 2-3 pills a night.

The first three, and many cold medicines, contain diphenhydramine, generic Benadryl. It’s a well known temporary sleep aid.

now on the nights i don’t take anything, it’s not just like i can’t sleep, but i become very panic.  i feel like i’m going to have a panic attack.  anybody experience this before?  i hope they’ll go away.  maybe its withdrawls or something.

You’ve probably just become used to its effect and have a hard time falling asleep without it. The usual advice is to taper off, try cutting the dosage just a little bit each night.

i know there’s prescription drugs out there that are probably safer like ambien,  but aren’t they still addictive.  maybe i’m wrong.  maybe you just build up a tolerence for them.  but i’d hate for them to have withdrawls.

I think Ambien is about as safe a sleep aid as there is. You can develop a tolerance after a while, but that just means that it stops working, and it’s usually best to taper off if you use it for more than a few nights in a row. Tom

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Question:

Parker Alexander wrote:

Thank you for your comments.   I do understand the quality issue and would gladly accept less sleep of a better quality any day.  I guess I haven’t slept like a ‘human being’ in quite awhile.   I don’t remember my last conscious dream!   As I was driving after I posted that last message I realized I should have also added that those who have slept WITH me tell me that I don’t seem to have any breathing issues.  No snoring or apparant breathing difficulties…

Snoring may be a common symptom of apnea but it does *not* have to be present for you to have this disease. You might want to check out some of the links for Apnea and other sleep disorders on Mongo’s List of Links…. Developed by Kent Taylor (Mongo) and maintained on the web by Paul Kemp. http://www.btinternet.com/~kemp.paul/mongo.html It could be that some of the other symptoms may strike a chord in you and get you pointed in the right direction. Apnea, Periodic Leg Movement Syndrome, Displaced Sleep Phase Syndrome, some other illness or a combination of several illnesses. You may also want to ask your doctor about having a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (Blood Test) to see if you may have Hypoglycemia or other illnesses which may be causing you to wake due to nutrition reasons. There is also an illness called Reactive Hypoglycemia which requires a different test which takes several hours to complete which involves giving you a sugar meal and testing your blood at set time points after the meal to see how your blood sugar levels react, since you mention snacks and juice. — Magesteff – "The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing."-Albert Einstein ——————————————————– Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II,

Question:

mir…@clark.net (satori..MSLO) wrote:

I’ve been using Trazadone for several months to get to sleep – 75mg. I never had any unusal problem re getting sick but note that the prescription states that it is to be taken with FOOD.  Perhaps you might want to try it and see if that helps.  For me, at least, Trazadone was the answer but I had to fiddle with the dosage.  I was fortunate to have a sleep doctor who understood that I knew enough about the medication to assist myself in changing the dose. Good luck. Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hello, i’ve just started working with my doc to see what drug will help  me sleep.. we started with trazadone..but it made me sick..VERY sick.. i thought i would toss out the question.. what have folks here tried.. and what do you suggest.. — Thought for the day ————————————————————————– —            Sometimes your’re the windshield..                            Sometimes your’re the bug ————————————————————————– — mir…@clarknet.com

Response:

By sick I assume you mean gastrointestinal symptoms which are not uncommon with trazodone. Might be soluble with minimal dosing. Also there is a related drug nefazodone (Serzone) which might be lighter in side effects. It is not clear what the newer sleeping medications do to apneics, like Ambien. Other alternatives are still other sedative antidepressants like amitriptyline or nortriptyline. Melatonin might help.

Response:

I’m using Klonopin with very few side effects.  You migh tinquire about that. Wolf <Brian

Sleep  well, and prosper!  Grrrrrrrrr.

Response:

hello, i’ve just started working with my doc to see what drug will help  me sleep.. we started with trazadone..but it made me sick..VERY sick.. i thought i would toss out the question.. what have folks here tried.. and what do you suggest.. — Thought for the day ————————————————————————— —                 Sometimes your’re the windshield..                                 Sometimes your’re the bug ————————————————————————— — mir…@clarknet.com

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