Question:
When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG.
What? Atkins and LC are great for diabetics and control of BG. I’m a type 2, off meds, and using LC and exercise to control BG levels.
Response:
When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. What? Atkins and LC are great for diabetics and control of BG. I’m a type 2, off meds, and using LC and exercise to control BG levels.
I have problems with low blood glucose – which are controlled by diet – which my dr advised me to use low carb as a bg control – and it does work. I can tell a difference. Diane
Response:
In 1990 (after 5 years on the Atkins diet)I started getting allot of pain in my elbows and knees. My doctor explained that the low carb/ high protein diet can most definitely create problems in a mineral imbalance which could cause calcium and other necessary minerals from being properly absorbed to maintain joint and bone density/health.
You doctor is/was most likely ill-informed. However, it could also be taht you had a rather poor version of a LC diet, too. My CBC indicated the onset of kidney disease with a rise in B.U.N. levels and a reduction in my RBC indices, hemoglobin and hematocrit. All three were abnormally low- RBC,hemoglobin and hematocrit, and an abnormal rise in my Blood Urea Nitrogen. One of the more consistant problems that occur in a Low Carb diet is the formation of kidney stones.
Nonsense. Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm
http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. Yes, by LC I leant low carb. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). Do you have more details on this? i I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
[...] Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation.
Well, LC doesn’t necessarily equal high protein. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm
"When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. (Wang being a coauthor of the study) KetoACIDosis? That old chestnut? http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei…
Another write up of the same study referenced above. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html
Written by a RD. Cites vomiting as a common side effect of ketosis. Yep, sounds like the guy is a real scholar when it comes to low carb diets…
Response:
"Nonsense". Numbers don’t lie and do you have 5 years experience on the "atkins"diet ? Also, as we all know one size doesn’t fit all. Some have no problems at all while other’s matabolism is different and underlying genetic makup and other factors can definately make a difference from person to person. We must understand this. I know 2 people that have been following the Atkins protocol for over 5 years and have yet to have any problems with it. On the other hand there are people that do have problems and need to modify certain portions of the diet. With more years of experience you will find out just how well it works. It was a godsend for me, I just couldn’t follow it without modifications over a long term.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In 1990 (after 5 years on the Atkins diet)I started getting allot of pain in my elbows and knees. My doctor explained that the low carb/ high protein diet can most definitely create problems in a mineral imbalance which could cause calcium and other necessary minerals from being properly absorbed to maintain joint and bone density/health. You doctor is/was most likely ill-informed. However, it could also be taht you had a rather poor version of a LC diet, too. My CBC indicated the onset of kidney disease with a rise in B.U.N. levels and a reduction in my RBC indices, hemoglobin and hematocrit. All three were abnormally low- RBC,hemoglobin and hematocrit, and an abnormal rise in my Blood Urea Nitrogen. One of the more consistant problems that occur in a Low Carb diet is the formation of kidney stones. Nonsense. Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. Yes, by LC I leant low carb. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). Do you have more details on this? i I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
In reference to the "atkins" diet. You must go into and stay in ketosis for no more than 2 weeks in the primary stages. Then you start adding carbs to find your "ideal carb threshold" from there on it’s all experimentation with different foods and counting carbs.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [...] Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. Well, LC doesn’t necessarily equal high protein. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm "When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. (Wang being a coauthor of the study) KetoACIDosis? That old chestnut? http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… Another write up of the same study referenced above. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html Written by a RD. Cites vomiting as a common side effect of ketosis. Yep, sounds like the guy is a real scholar when it comes to low carb diets…
Response:
[1] I’m familiar w/the atkins diet. Your comment "must go into and stay in ketosis for NO MORE than 2 weeks" is not correct. But that’s beside the point. [2] Ketoacidosis != ketosis, but is frequently trotted out as a rationale by uninformed folks as to why LC diets might be unhealthy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In reference to the "atkins" diet. You must go into and stay in ketosis for no more than 2 weeks in the primary stages. Then you start adding carbs to find your "ideal carb threshold" from there on it’s all experimentation with different foods and counting carbs. [...] Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. Well, LC doesn’t necessarily equal high protein. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm "When you restrict the amount of carbohydrates you can go into a state called ketoacidosis," Wang said. (Wang being a coauthor of the study) KetoACIDosis? That old chestnut? http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… Another write up of the same study referenced above. http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html Written by a RD. Cites vomiting as a common side effect of ketosis. Yep, sounds like the guy is a real scholar when it comes to low carb diets…
Response:
"Nonsense". Numbers don’t lie and do you have 5 years experience on the "atkins"diet ?
I’ve been doing LC since October 2001. Other here have more than 5 years experience, btw. Also, as we all know one size doesn’t fit all. Some have no problems at all while other’s matabolism is different and underlying genetic makup and other factors can definately make a difference from person to person. We must understand this.
Sure. But you really cannot say that it is the diet, or your interpretation of it, or even something else. No two people that I have run into even execute the diet in the same manner. I know 2 people that have been following the Atkins protocol for over 5 years and have yet to have any problems with it. On the other hand there are people that do have problems and need to modify certain portions of the diet. With more years of experience you will find out just how well it works. It was a godsend for me, I just couldn’t follow it without modifications over a long term.
See above. Moreover, or comments regarding BG control are dubious at best. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In 1990 (after 5 years on the Atkins diet)I started getting allot of pain in my elbows and knees. My doctor explained that the low carb/ high protein diet can most definitely create problems in a mineral imbalance which could cause calcium and other necessary minerals from being properly absorbed to maintain joint and bone density/health. You doctor is/was most likely ill-informed. However, it could also be taht you had a rather poor version of a LC diet, too. My CBC indicated the onset of kidney disease with a rise in B.U.N. levels and a reduction in my RBC indices, hemoglobin and hematocrit. All three were abnormally low- RBC,hemoglobin and hematocrit, and an abnormal rise in my Blood Urea Nitrogen. One of the more consistant problems that occur in a Low Carb diet is the formation of kidney stones. Nonsense. Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm
http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. Yes, by LC I leant low carb. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). Do you have more details on this? i I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am xposting to alt.support.diabetes not because I am a diabetic, but becaue there is a few very knowledgeable posters there. First, the numbers: (start LC) V 2000 1/2003 1/2004 1/2005 3/2005 Total 227 177 175 292 187 LDL 108 94 102 218 119 HDL 45 41 56 61 53 Triglyceride 207 83 59 75 Fasting glucose 91 90 91 ??? The numbers for 1/2005 are from my recollection, they could be slightly off, but I have them written down at work. I can check them on monday. In any case, they cannot be off by more than a few points, if that. I switched to LC in summer of 2004. Prior to that, my cholesterol was stable and normal for the last couple of years, including the last year when I was fat. My LC diet was a paleo diet, eating meat, fish, nuts, vegs, that sort of stuff. I also drank heavy cream once in a while for convenience (quick easy energy). To my great surprise, the numbers for Jan 2005 were way way off! Very high cholesterol, high LDL, super low trigs, decent HDL etc. My doc suggested (on the phone) that I start taking Lipitor and go on a low fat diet. I told him thanks for the suggestion and that I will "read what is a low fat diet". The doc said to come back in 3 months for another blood test (results of which are also on top). I was quite puzzled what to do. First thing that was not obvious to me was whether I even had any sort of health problem at all. (meaning whether high cholesterol implied increased real risk of disease or death). Second thing was that it was not obvious what to do. I decided to try this. 1. Stay on LC, do not take lipitor, do not reduce fat. 2. Eat more fish, fewer eggs, less heavy cream and more nuts at the expense of meat. I figured, no one was reported to be hurt by eating fish and nuts. Even though this change sounds like a big change, it was not, other than me eating substantially more nuts and fewer eggs. I was not drinking that much heavy cream before. I ate less red meat now, but not much less. Maybe on 5 days per week instead of 7. I mean, what else can one eat on LC other than meat. Plus, I like meat. I ate more fish, but not much more, say 6 meals per week instead of 2. It is not like fish is now my main source of calories. Not even close. I was still on a high fat, high meat, low carb diet. So, my second huge surprise was that my lipids were quite normal on the second blood test in March. They changed dramatically!
Perhaps it is because you have lost weight. This story is so strange that it does not even sound true. I am suspicious that they messed something up in their January blood test. In any case, I will continue to eat like I eat now, since I can be relatively comfortable, eat food I like, not be hungry and not gain. I will drink heavy cream sparingly. It is not paleo anyway.
Drinking heavy cream would be unwise. Your not being hungry should be a concern. Secondly, it is not obvious to me that I am somehow healthier now than I was in January.
Folks generally do not feel their cholesterol level. At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Response:
And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting?
LCers seem to have more coronary events. This may be due to increased rates of lipid peroxidation secondary to the hyperketonemia which is behind the suppression of appetite/hunger. At His service, Andrew — Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD Board-Certified Cardiologist ** Suggested Reading: (1) http://makeashorterlink.com/?L26062048 (2) http://makeashorterlink.com/?O2F325D1A (3) http://makeashorterlink.com/?X1C62661A (4) http://makeashorterlink.com/?U1E13130A (5) http://makeashorterlink.com/?K6F72510A (6) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I24E5151A (7) http://makeashorterlink.com/?I22222129
Response:
Why are you so anti-homosexuality? Is this all still about your father? — You take stupid to a new level. – MFW
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Do you often have problems with homosexuality?" No, just persistent homosexuals following me from newsgroup to newsgroup that have become despondent due to excessive failed attempts at trying to persuade me by posing as an intellect, but instead everyone has figured you out. Your last mental function tests revealed that Forrest Gump’s IQ is three figures higher than yours.And as we all know, luck has never been in your favor. SMF P.S. Give it up. This board has it’s place in trying to help those with diabetes. May I suggest "alt.support.severe mental disorders" Do you often have problems with homosexuality? — You take stupid to a new level. – MFW Your whole reply is worthless anyway. HTH — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW A flame is an insult or slur directed to a member due to being rejected by the party being flamed. Any type of homosexual slur directed from one member to another member, meaning that most likely the "flamer" is a dispirited homosexual. I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation.
LC doesn’t have to be high protein — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
Response:
Your whole reply is worthless anyway. HTH — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW
A flame is an insult or slur directed to a member due to being rejected by the party being flamed. Any type of homosexual slur directed from one member to another member, meaning that most likely the "flamer" is a dispirited homosexual. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
<snip Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit,
Just curious here. Why do you think taking a statin would "at best, make me feel like shit?" My own experience with statins over several years is that they have absolutely no effect on how one feels. Dick Stephens
Response:
Do you often have problems with homosexuality? — You take stupid to a new level. – MFW
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your whole reply is worthless anyway. HTH — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW A flame is an insult or slur directed to a member due to being rejected by the party being flamed. Any type of homosexual slur directed from one member to another member, meaning that most likely the "flamer" is a dispirited homosexual. I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
that was supposed to say *or* a disease process
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is it possible that the body raises the cholesterol level on an as-needed basis? I’m guessing needs might range from the re-engineering of the body involved in weightloss or building muscle, to support of a disease process. I am xposting to alt.support.diabetes not because I am a diabetic, but becaue there is a few very knowledgeable posters there. First, the numbers: (start LC) V 2000 1/2003 1/2004 1/2005 3/2005 Total 227 177 175 292 187 LDL 108 94 102 218 119 HDL 45 41 56 61 53 Triglyceride 207 83 59 75 Fasting glucose 91 90 91 ??? The numbers for 1/2005 are from my recollection, they could be slightly off, but I have them written down at work. I can check them on monday. In any case, they cannot be off by more than a few points, if that. I switched to LC in summer of 2004. Prior to that, my cholesterol was stable and normal for the last couple of years, including the last year when I was fat. My LC diet was a paleo diet, eating meat, fish, nuts, vegs, that sort of stuff. I also drank heavy cream once in a while for convenience (quick easy energy). To my great surprise, the numbers for Jan 2005 were way way off! Very high cholesterol, high LDL, super low trigs, decent HDL etc. My doc suggested (on the phone) that I start taking Lipitor and go on a low fat diet. I told him thanks for the suggestion and that I will "read what is a low fat diet". The doc said to come back in 3 months for another blood test (results of which are also on top). I was quite puzzled what to do. First thing that was not obvious to me was whether I even had any sort of health problem at all. (meaning whether high cholesterol implied increased real risk of disease or death). Second thing was that it was not obvious what to do. I decided to try this. 1. Stay on LC, do not take lipitor, do not reduce fat. 2. Eat more fish, fewer eggs, less heavy cream and more nuts at the expense of meat. I figured, no one was reported to be hurt by eating fish and nuts. Even though this change sounds like a big change, it was not, other than me eating substantially more nuts and fewer eggs. I was not drinking that much heavy cream before. I ate less red meat now, but not much less. Maybe on 5 days per week instead of 7. I mean, what else can one eat on LC other than meat. Plus, I like meat. I ate more fish, but not much more, say 6 meals per week instead of 2. It is not like fish is now my main source of calories. Not even close. I was still on a high fat, high meat, low carb diet. So, my second huge surprise was that my lipids were quite normal on the second blood test in March. They changed dramatically! This story is so strange that it does not even sound true. I am suspicious that they messed something up in their January blood test. In any case, I will continue to eat like I eat now, since I can be relatively comfortable, eat food I like, not be hungry and not gain. I will drink heavy cream sparingly. It is not paleo anyway. Secondly, it is not obvious to me that I am somehow healthier now than I was in January. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
"Do you often have problems with homosexuality?" No, just persistent homosexuals following me from newsgroup to newsgroup that have become despondent due to excessive failed attempts at trying to persuade me by posing as an intellect, but instead everyone has figured you out. Your last mental function tests revealed that Forrest Gump’s IQ is three figures higher than yours.And as we all know, luck has never been in your favor. SMF P.S. Give it up. This board has it’s place in trying to help those with diabetes. May I suggest "alt.support.severe mental disorders" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you often have problems with homosexuality? — You take stupid to a new level. – MFW Your whole reply is worthless anyway. HTH — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW A flame is an insult or slur directed to a member due to being rejected by the party being flamed. Any type of homosexual slur directed from one member to another member, meaning that most likely the "flamer" is a dispirited homosexual. I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
It is common for chol numbers to rise at first on LC and then to drop back down. Your results don’t suprise me one bit. I’m glad you didn’t start the drug program your doc suggested (though 292 is a bit scary – even if you don’t believe the diet heart theory). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am xposting to alt.support.diabetes not because I am a diabetic, but becaue there is a few very knowledgeable posters there. First, the numbers: (start LC) V 2000 1/2003 1/2004 1/2005 3/2005 Total 227 177 175 292 187 LDL 108 94 102 218 119 HDL 45 41 56 61 53 Triglyceride 207 83 59 75 Fasting glucose 91 90 91 ??? The numbers for 1/2005 are from my recollection, they could be slightly off, but I have them written down at work. I can check them on monday. In any case, they cannot be off by more than a few points, if that. I switched to LC in summer of 2004. Prior to that, my cholesterol was stable and normal for the last couple of years, including the last year when I was fat. My LC diet was a paleo diet, eating meat, fish, nuts, vegs, that sort of stuff. I also drank heavy cream once in a while for convenience (quick easy energy). To my great surprise, the numbers for Jan 2005 were way way off! Very high cholesterol, high LDL, super low trigs, decent HDL etc. My doc suggested (on the phone) that I start taking Lipitor and go on a low fat diet. I told him thanks for the suggestion and that I will "read what is a low fat diet". The doc said to come back in 3 months for another blood test (results of which are also on top). I was quite puzzled what to do. First thing that was not obvious to me was whether I even had any sort of health problem at all. (meaning whether high cholesterol implied increased real risk of disease or death). Second thing was that it was not obvious what to do. I decided to try this. 1. Stay on LC, do not take lipitor, do not reduce fat. 2. Eat more fish, fewer eggs, less heavy cream and more nuts at the expense of meat. I figured, no one was reported to be hurt by eating fish and nuts. Even though this change sounds like a big change, it was not, other than me eating substantially more nuts and fewer eggs. I was not drinking that much heavy cream before. I ate less red meat now, but not much less. Maybe on 5 days per week instead of 7. I mean, what else can one eat on LC other than meat. Plus, I like meat. I ate more fish, but not much more, say 6 meals per week instead of 2. It is not like fish is now my main source of calories. Not even close. I was still on a high fat, high meat, low carb diet. So, my second huge surprise was that my lipids were quite normal on the second blood test in March. They changed dramatically! This story is so strange that it does not even sound true. I am suspicious that they messed something up in their January blood test. In any case, I will continue to eat like I eat now, since I can be relatively comfortable, eat food I like, not be hungry and not gain. I will drink heavy cream sparingly. It is not paleo anyway. Secondly, it is not obvious to me that I am somehow healthier now than I was in January.
Response:
And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting?
Response:
I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
Your whole reply is worthless anyway. HTH — Most people are dumb as bricks; some people are dumber than that. – MFW
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
I agree here. Mine was 111, then went to above 127 or so. Then back to 116. In consecutive checks. So it was rising at first on LC. Then dropped back. I suppose that’s confirmation enough.
Lipids can fluctuate according to season, I’ve heard, but Igor’s sounds more like a lab FU, to me. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
Response:
Do things like this happen from time to time? If so, jut what gets screwed up? You see, all values for 1/05 except LDL do look like mine. I do not think that it could be explained by mixing up blood vials. Low trigs and high HDL are mine, for sure (and a sign of low carbing). Maybe it was a FU, as you say, or maybe it was not.
Some lazy lab tech reads a number wrong or transposes a digit, people end getting body parts removed over stuff like that. More deaths every year from medical misadventures than traffic accidents and gunshot wounds combined, and that’s just the ones that die. — No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes
Response:
Is it possible that the body raises the cholesterol level on an as-needed basis? I’m guessing needs might range from the re-engineering of the body involved in weightloss or building muscle, to support of a disease process.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am xposting to alt.support.diabetes not because I am a diabetic, but becaue there is a few very knowledgeable posters there. First, the numbers: (start LC) V 2000 1/2003 1/2004 1/2005 3/2005 Total 227 177 175 292 187 LDL 108 94 102 218 119 HDL 45 41 56 61 53 Triglyceride 207 83 59 75 Fasting glucose 91 90 91 ??? The numbers for 1/2005 are from my recollection, they could be slightly off, but I have them written down at work. I can check them on monday. In any case, they cannot be off by more than a few points, if that. I switched to LC in summer of 2004. Prior to that, my cholesterol was stable and normal for the last couple of years, including the last year when I was fat. My LC diet was a paleo diet, eating meat, fish, nuts, vegs, that sort of stuff. I also drank heavy cream once in a while for convenience (quick easy energy). To my great surprise, the numbers for Jan 2005 were way way off! Very high cholesterol, high LDL, super low trigs, decent HDL etc. My doc suggested (on the phone) that I start taking Lipitor and go on a low fat diet. I told him thanks for the suggestion and that I will "read what is a low fat diet". The doc said to come back in 3 months for another blood test (results of which are also on top). I was quite puzzled what to do. First thing that was not obvious to me was whether I even had any sort of health problem at all. (meaning whether high cholesterol implied increased real risk of disease or death). Second thing was that it was not obvious what to do. I decided to try this. 1. Stay on LC, do not take lipitor, do not reduce fat. 2. Eat more fish, fewer eggs, less heavy cream and more nuts at the expense of meat. I figured, no one was reported to be hurt by eating fish and nuts. Even though this change sounds like a big change, it was not, other than me eating substantially more nuts and fewer eggs. I was not drinking that much heavy cream before. I ate less red meat now, but not much less. Maybe on 5 days per week instead of 7. I mean, what else can one eat on LC other than meat. Plus, I like meat. I ate more fish, but not much more, say 6 meals per week instead of 2. It is not like fish is now my main source of calories. Not even close. I was still on a high fat, high meat, low carb diet. So, my second huge surprise was that my lipids were quite normal on the second blood test in March. They changed dramatically! This story is so strange that it does not even sound true. I am suspicious that they messed something up in their January blood test. In any case, I will continue to eat like I eat now, since I can be relatively comfortable, eat food I like, not be hungry and not gain. I will drink heavy cream sparingly. It is not paleo anyway. Secondly, it is not obvious to me that I am somehow healthier now than I was in January. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
In 1990 (after 5 years on the Atkins diet)I started getting allot of pain in my elbows and knees. My doctor explained that the low carb/ high protein diet can most definitely create problems in a mineral imbalance which could cause calcium and other necessary minerals from being properly absorbed to maintain joint and bone density/health. My CBC indicated the onset of kidney disease with a rise in B.U.N. levels and a reduction in my RBC indices, hemoglobin and hematocrit. All three were abnormally low- RBC,hemoglobin and hematocrit, and an abnormal rise in my Blood Urea Nitrogen. One of the more consistant problems that occur in a Low Carb diet is the formation of kidney stones. Below, I listed a few articles which explain these problems with a LC/high protein diet, which I was referring to in my personal situation. http://diabetes.about.com/cs/nutritiondiet/l/blnlowcarbrisk8.htm http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/news-ng.asp?id=35962-high-protei… http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/columnnn/nn000905.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m assuming "LC" is Low Carb ? If so then I started a low carb diet in the mid 90’s and my cholesterol went from329 to 205 in 30 days, in 60 days I was at 170, at 90 days my cholesterol was at 150 and my trigycerides went from 293 to 70 in 90 days, my HDL went from 31 to 70! in 90 days. Yes, by LC I leant low carb. For blood lipids you can’t beat a low carb diet. But it does wreak havoc on your joints, and kidneys if you are on it for more than 5 years (at least for me). Do you have more details on this? i I forgot to mention that I went from weighing 230 to 180 in 90 days! This was while I was on the Atkins diet. My carb. threshold was 55 grams per day. When I became diabetic I modified my diet and got away from the Atkins protocol due to my BG. But I can most definitely validate the improvements in blood lipids on a low carb diet. Hope LC is Low Carb ? If not then my whole reply is worthless. Sorry, Rick And I would seriously begin to wonder about a Dr. that wanted to put someone who has had a perfectly fine chol profile for 5 years on essentially a lifetime drug, based on one chol test that was abnormal. Regarding Lipitor, it was a no brainer. Why take an expensive drug that would, at best, make me feel like shit, and in any case would not reduce my mortality. It’s not unusual for chol tests to vary quite a bit. I had my worst one ever after going for the test after a weekend of drinking quite a bit of alcohol. That causes a quick rise in TG. This is especially dubious considering that chol levels take decades to have any cumulative effect, so what’s the hurry instead of waiting and retesting? Well, in all fairness, he did order a retest in 3 months. — 223/173.3/180
Response:
Taffy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not understand this Line of thinking .Everyone is always talking about how bad this diet is ,but for the most part I eat healthier than before I’m eating a lot more veggies and most of the meat that I eat is lean chicken ,tuna or the occasional steak And the fat i get is from a few macs or a few olives which are supposed to have the good cholesterol in them .so where is all this deadly fat coming from? Before i was eating french fries burgers and pizza an i’m sure i was getting a lot more fat then!!!!!!! sorry just my lttle rant for this thread today . http://community.webtv.net/domjo/Joeshomeofbigfish ("Fish tremble at the sound of my name") 
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