Question:

I sent this reply to Judith directly, but meant to post it to the group, so I’m forwarding my reply back.  Sorry if the formatting got screwed up! I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a

This is no joke.  While groups like this are helpful, they’re still not as helpful as finding a local support group.  I don’t know what’s available in your area, or what you’d feel comfortable doing, but OE groups are all over the place, and you could also check with your doctor for a referral to a weight loss clinic in your area.  You wouldn’t have to participate, necessarily, in any of their "plans".  They usually always include some kind of weekly group meeting that I’ve found to be more useful in my weightloss than any other tool.  There’s nothing like sharing and accountability to keep you on track. newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to

An orange, while not the best fruit in the world to eat (very high glycemic index), will give you just as quick of a pick-me-up.  And if you find that you just need a crunch, you might try keeping a little baggie of baby carrots in your drawer instead.  I think almost everyone on this group will agree…if we had a bag of chocolate covered almonds in our desk, we’d eat them too!  As a complete and total last resort, if you find that you *have* to have some chocolate (this craving seems to be almost chemical in some women), try the "Carbolite" bars.  They’re made with a sugar alcohol that your body cannot absorb.  One bar has about 140 calories, but 50 of them are carbs that your body can’t absorb and therefore do not need to be counted as carbs or calories in your diet.  Just keep in mind that if you can’t absorb something, it means that it gets sent out some "other way" (you can guess what that way is) and if you overeat this kind of food, you’ll find yourself spending a lot of time dealing with that "other way".  You can buy CarboLite stuff online, or at Walgreens, and other places I’m sure.  They’re about $1.25-$1.50 a bar.  Not cheap! lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to

It’s possible that your pace isn’t fast enough to get your heart going enough to give you aerobic benefit, but let me assure you that *any* walking is better than *not* walking.  It sounds like you have a very busy life.  As far as excercise goes, if you don’t have time to do more, then you have to do more in the time that you have.  Burning calories is fairly consistant by distance, despite your effort level.  In other words, if you walk 3 miles in an hour, you’ll burn about the same number of calories you would if you jogged 3 miles in 30 minutes.  As a bonus, the jogging is far more likely to keep your pulse in range that will give you serious cardio vascular-benefits.  Try bumping up the intensity of the excercises that you’re doing. exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs.,

Consume 100,000 calories less than you burn.  That’s the only way to lose 30 lbs.  It sounds simplistic, and really in concept it is, but we all know that in reality it is not.  There are 3 ways to focus on to accomplish this goal.  #1) Eat fewer calories.  #2) Excercise more (either in quantity, quality, or both). #3) Find a way to increase the number of calories your body burns daily *outside* of excercise.  #3 is one of the most helpful things you can do to not only lose the weight, but keep it off forever.  It requires resistance training, which requires time, which I know is a problem for you with your very busy schedule, but it’s *so* important in long term weight-loss and maintenance goals. let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point.

"I don’t know when I could find the time…", "…could not quit", and "…cannot afford…" won’t get you anywhere.  I don’t want to sound harsh or mean, and I hope you don’t take it as such, but the weight won’t come off by itself.  You have to work at it, and it’s not easy…if it were, we wouldn’t even be discussing it right now.  You *have* to make the time for excercise and resistance training.  You *have* to have the will power to not eat foods that are keeping you from your goal.  (This means both knowing what you want, and being able to *remember* what you want when you’re fighting a craving.  Nothing tastes as good as thin feels…)  And while financial limitations are a reality, remember that if you join a group like Weight Watchers, you don’t have to buy their products.  The points/exchange system work on foods you cook too.  OE is free, however, and might be something to look into. Judith

Best luck, Judith. Jonathan – 402/250/190

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. =/  Have you thought about *not* keeping the munchies in your drawer, as maybe a starting point

I have done the not keeping the snacks in my drawer thing but ended up running down the hall to the school secertary’s drawer and getting into her Hershey Kisses. I think what you said about the big breakfast makes a lot of sense. I have never been a breakfast eater, but my nephew who is a body builder (Mr. Mississippi) told me that it does not matter what you eat for breakfast that you’ll burn it off during the day. I asked him, what about two strawberry Pop Tarts with icing and he said even that. He said even three of them. Maybe I should make myself do breakfast. Thanks!!!

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As a complete and total last resort, if you find that you *have* to have some chocolate (this craving seems to be almost chemical in some women), try the "Carbolite" bars.  They’re made with a sugar alcohol that your body cannot absorb.  One bar has about 140 calories, but 50 of them are carbs that your body can’t absorb and therefore do not need to be counted as carbs or calories in your diet.

The 140 calories WILL be absorbed in full.  It’s true that sugar alcohols are absorbed incompletely by the body but this is taken into account when estimating their caloric value, which ranges between around 1.9 & 3 calories/gram depending on the particular type of sugar alcohol.  This is lower than the caloric value of 3.75/g for standard carbs which are absorbed in full. Sugar alcohols are supposed not to affect blood sugar or insulin levels in the same way as conventional carbs but their calories still count.

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. =/  Have you thought about *not* keeping the munchies in your drawer, as maybe a starting point I have done the not keeping the snacks in my drawer thing but ended up running down the hall to the school secertary’s drawer and getting into her Hershey Kisses.

::grin::  That’s when it starts becoming a re-training thing, a "Mind over matter" thing.  That’s when you get to start having the dialogues that go, "Well, I can run down and get some Hershey Kisses from her desk."  "But do you really WANT to?"  "Well, yeah.  They sound good."  "But do you WANT to?  Think about it.  Think about what you’re doing, and then reconsider." I still have these discussions with myself.  I’m getting back to the point where I’m winning them again, too.  =D  And I’ll actually have them out loud with myself.  For me, it’s a step from making it a habit that I did subconsciously, without thinking about it ("It’s part of my routine to have M&Ms in my coffee cup on my desk and to eat them throughout the day") to making it a CONSCIOUS DECISION that I had to make.  Once it was a conscious decision, it was no longer something that "just happened" and I had better control over it.  I could bargain with myself, that I’d have "just one" (and stick to it), I’d be able to tell myself "No." or "Later." and win that battle.  And if I still did end up eating whatever it was anyway, it was with conscious intent and knowledge that I was doing it.   Does that make any sense at all? I think what you said about the big breakfast makes a lot of sense. I have never been a breakfast eater, but my nephew who is a body builder (Mr. Mississippi) told me that it does not matter what you eat for breakfast that you’ll burn it off during the day. I asked him, what about two strawberry Pop Tarts with icing and he said even that. He said even three of them. Maybe I should make myself do breakfast.

I never used to do breakfast, but now that I am (and I’ll admit that my breakfast is a can of SlimFast, which I know some people on the group wouldn’t touch with a ten foot pole, but it keeps me full until lunch on 220 calories), I find that if I *don’t* have breakfast, I can really really really feel the difference at about 10am.  Try it for a couple of weeks, consistently, and see if it makes a difference for you.  Good luck! Tirya —              I’ve got a pantheon of animals in a pagan soul            | |   TDC Inca Jeeper  |  AlTeam #99  |  http://www.enteract.com/~tirya  |

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.if we had a bag of chocolate covered almonds in our desk, we’d eat them too

Jonathan…it’s not a bag of chocolate covered almonds; it’s a jar. A big one! Thanks (I emailed you)

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You’ve already received quite a few good suggestions so I’ll just say "Welcome" . Hope to see you posting regularly. Beverly

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs., let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point. Another question. Do hormones put weight on a person? Judith

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Well, what my wife and I did to lose alot of weight (me 75 and her 110 lbs.) we documented on our website to help other people (because we’re really mad that the answer was so easy and we always got such bad information). But,, we don’t know how it will do for other people so we’re just putting it out here, take it for what it is. If anyone gets results from it, good or bad, please share that info. so we can finally solve this problem. This is just too much suffering and it seems needless. http://guyflickgirlflick.com/lowglycemic.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs., let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point. Another question. Do hormones put weight on a person? Judith

Response:

An orange, while not the best fruit in the world to eat (very high glycemic index), will give you just as quick of a pick-me-up.

Almonds usually do the trick for me. I always keep them handy – people at work started calling me *the almond girl* ) Elly

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Hi Judy, welcome to ASD! The hardest thing about dieting is to realize you need to lose weight and start a weight loss program. Once you do that, it will be easier. Keep us posted about your progress, Elly 170,9/143/140,8 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs., let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point. Another question. Do hormones put weight on a person? Judith

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Hi, Judith!  Welcome to ASD!! I don’t know the answer to your question about hormones, but I’m sure someone here will. I can empathize with the munching on snackage throughout the day – I used to be infamous for decimating the M&M population of our local vending machine. =/  Have you thought about *not* keeping the munchies in your drawer, as maybe a starting point?  I know I had a mental, "But I need the energy kick throughout the day!" thing, but found that the sugar was actually making me feel *worse* and not better, because I’d have something sweet and it would spike my energy for a little bit, and then I’d be down and dragging again, even worse than before.  So of course I’d throw in some more snacks and instant sugar, making it a vicious cycle.  I ultimately had to basically ban snacks from my desk to keep me from doing it.  =D  I also found that when I started eating breakfast, I didn’t get the mid-morning drags, and a healthy, balanced lunch got rid of the afternoon drags, which made it better all the way around. Good luck, and let us know if there’s anything we can do to help! Tirya 206/171/160 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs., let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point. Another question. Do hormones put weight on a person? Judith

– |    God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates man.   | |      Man destroys God. Man creates dinosaurs. Dinosaurs eat man.     | |                        Woman inherits the earth.                     | |   TDC Inca Jeeper  |  AlTeam #99  |  http://www.enteract.com/~tirya  |

Response:

I just found this group (thank God). Dieting is so hard when one goes it alone. My name is Judith, I’m a school teacher and write for a newspaper…as a third job I work at a video store. My real job is my home and family. With all this going on, one would think I’m too busy to gain weight…not true. Nervous energy or need for energy causes me to snack on candy Hot Tamales and chocolate covered almonds…I keep a supply in my desk drawer for a pick-me-up at school. My problem is the 30 pounds I need to lose. I am 5′4" and weigh 160 lbs. My cholesterol is high enough to take Lipitor so my doctor says I need to lose this weight and start walking. I thought I did plenty of walking, but I guess it’s not the right kind. My husband is disabled so I pretty much do all the household chores and run all the errands. I lead a very full and busy life. I have a huge Italian family with six children ranging in ages from 35 to age 13. Yes, I was a good Catholic. Again, I am thankful for finding all of you and look forward to exchanging ideas and support. If you know of a way to lose 30 extra lbs., let me know. I don’t know when I could find the time for exercising. I tried Sugar Busters but during Easter I screwed up, eating too many Italian chocolate Easter eggs and could not quit. Weight Watchers once worked for me, but I just cannot afford all that at this point. Another question. Do hormones put weight on a person? Judith

Response:

Welcome to ASD Sharon.  A lot of us seem to have the "motivation" problem lately.  I started my new woe/wol for many of the same reasons as you….I want to be around to see my grandchildren grow up.  We’ll probably be waiting a *looong* time if we wait for the motivation to find us.  Just keep reminding yourself of your reasons and concentrate on changing things one at a time.   I’m with you on the cooking…..I never liked it myself <g. Beverly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I am just starting out – again.  My biggest downfall is fast food. Not for lack of time, or any "good" reason.  I don’t like to cook, even though I am a SAHM, and by the time he gets home from work, my DH doesn’t feel like cooking.  The few things that I can/do cook aren’t exactly low-fat fare – I make a mean meatloaf, and great homemade mac-n-cheese.  Funny thing is, when I try, I am actually pretty good at cooking – I just don’t like to. But I am working on changing that.  Since my daughters are out of school for the summer, I have been teaching them to cook, and in the process (shhhh…..) actually starting to enjoy it a little more.  I think it’s sharing it with the girls that is making the difference. I know what I need to do – have known for about 10 years.  I just really like my cheese and hamburgers and tacos, and so on and so on…  Another huge problem for me is breakfast.  More often than not, it consists of a bag of chips and a couple glasses of water.  If anyone has any suggestions for breakfast – I am way open here. I had actually planned on starting today, but have a had a horrible headache all day.  DH is stopping for Subway for dinner – I’m having turkey breast on whole wheat, mustard and all the veggies – no chips.  It may not sound like much to some, but it is a big change from Nachos Bellgrande, soft taco Supreme and Big Beef Burrito Supreme, no? My problem is motivation.  I know it must come from inside me, I just can’t seem to get it out.  I have great reasons – two beautiful daughters I want to see grow up and be married someday, would love to have grandchildren too. And I want to play with my girls now, while they still want to be seen with me.  I want to feel better, and be more fit; if only to keep up with them! Then there are the medical reasons – I am currently on meds for depression, high blood pressure and asthma.  On the verge of having to take meds for diabetes.  In short, there are a lot of reasons why I need to lose this weight.  So why won’t I? Ok, I guess I have rambled on long enough.  Any suggestions, ideas, recipes that anyone would like to share with me, please do – here or via email. It is all appreciated. And away we go… sharon — 254/254/118 Lose water to reply!

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OOOOH…Yummy! I’m trying this next time I go! — Lisa B. 243/176.5/145 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sharon, Subway is wonderful!  I like getting the roast beaf with hot peppers and horesradish sauce.  I read once that the spicey foods help one to feel full faster, and I know that I eat slower and drink more water when I eat spicy foods.  (I also love the taste!) Good luck in the weight loss again! Chrissy

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Today is the tomorrow you dreamed about yesterday.

snipped HI had actually planned on starting today, but have a had a horrible headache snipped

– Diva —– "Every day you’re alive is a special occasion."

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Welcome to ASD, sharon. There are a lot of things I like, too.  Now it is a matter of "Are the consequences worth the action?"  Yeah, I’d like to order a pizza right now, but do I want the bloat, the icky feeling from all the grease, do I want to wake up the next morning and think "What in the heck did I eat that for?" Most times, the answer is a resounding "No!" Think about what you want, then think about what you want in the long run. Don’t go for what will make you happy right this very moment.  Don’t go for the instant gratification.  I started into my way of eating back in August ‘99 and I can tell you now every time I slipped, it was because I went for the instant gratification (food I truly didn’t need) instead of staying the course and focusing on what was ahead of me. Set realistic goals.  Set up a strategy.  Make it as concrete as you can. Write the reasons why you want to get healthy.  Tape it to your fridge. Carry a copy with you.  Do whatever it takes. Keep on posting here.  It has really helped me. — Lisa B. 243/176.5/145

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all! I was here well over a year ago, and have been lurking again for the past two weeks.  It is interesting to see how the face of a NG can change over time.  There are a few names I recognize from my time before, but not many! Well, I am just starting out – again.  My biggest downfall is fast food. Not for lack of time, or any "good" reason.  I don’t like to cook, even though I am a SAHM, and by the time he gets home from work, my DH doesn’t feel like cooking.  The few things that I can/do cook aren’t exactly low-fat fare – I make a mean meatloaf, and great homemade mac-n-cheese.  Funny thing is, when I try, I am actually pretty good at cooking – I just don’t like to. But I am working on changing that.  Since my daughters are out of school for the summer, I have been teaching them to cook, and in the process (shhhh…..) actually starting to enjoy it a little more.  I think it’s sharing it with the girls that is making the difference. I know what I need to do – have known for about 10 years.  I just really like my cheese and hamburgers and tacos, and so on and so on…  Another huge problem for me is breakfast.  More often than not, it consists of a bag of chips and a couple glasses of water.  If anyone has any suggestions for breakfast – I am way open here. I had actually planned on starting today, but have a had a horrible headache all day.  DH is stopping for Subway for dinner – I’m having turkey breast on whole wheat, mustard and all the veggies – no chips.  It may not sound like much to some, but it is a big change from Nachos Bellgrande, soft taco Supreme and Big Beef Burrito Supreme, no? My problem is motivation.  I know it must come from inside me, I just can’t seem to get it out.  I have great reasons – two beautiful daughters I want to see grow up and be married someday, would love to have grandchildren too. And I want to play with my girls now, while they still want to be seen with me.  I want to feel better, and be more fit; if only to keep up with them! Then there are the medical reasons – I am currently on meds for depression, high blood pressure and asthma.  On the verge of having to take meds for diabetes.  In short, there are a lot of reasons why I need to lose this weight.  So why won’t I? Ok, I guess I have rambled on long enough.  Any suggestions, ideas, recipes that anyone would like to share with me, please do – here or via email. It is all appreciated. And away we go… sharon — 254/254/118 Lose water to reply!

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Welcome to ASD Sharon — ~~Joanie~~ 245/215.1/215 minigoal#6  glasses of H2O today 6/12 started ww nov 22/99  pounds left to lose  65.1  pounds divorced- 29.9 Destination 2000 – goal = 12,000 minutes exercise 4345/12,000 Goal -Vegas 1398 miles 505.2/1398  miles * 8.6 min exercise = 1 mile

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all! I was here well over a year ago, and have been lurking again for the past two weeks.  It is interesting to see how the face of a NG can change over time.  There are a few names I recognize from my time before, but not many! Well, I am just starting out – again.  My biggest downfall is fast food. Not for lack of time, or any "good" reason.  I don’t like to cook, even though I am a SAHM, and by the time he gets home from work, my DH doesn’t feel like cooking.  The few things that I can/do cook aren’t exactly low-fat fare – I make a mean meatloaf, and great homemade mac-n-cheese.  Funny thing is, when I try, I am actually pretty good at cooking – I just don’t like to. But I am working on changing that.  Since my daughters are out of school for the summer, I have been teaching them to cook, and in the process (shhhh…..) actually starting to enjoy it a little more.  I think it’s sharing it with the girls that is making the difference. I know what I need to do – have known for about 10 years.  I just really like my cheese and hamburgers and tacos, and so on and so on…  Another huge problem for me is breakfast.  More often than not, it consists of a bag of chips and a couple glasses of water.  If anyone has any suggestions for breakfast – I am way open here. I had actually planned on starting today, but have a had a horrible headache all day.  DH is stopping for Subway for dinner – I’m having turkey breast on whole wheat, mustard and all the veggies – no chips.  It may not sound like much to some, but it is a big change from Nachos Bellgrande, soft taco Supreme and Big Beef Burrito Supreme, no? My problem is motivation.  I know it must come from inside me, I just can’t seem to get it out.  I have great reasons – two beautiful daughters I want to see grow up and be married someday, would love to have grandchildren too. And I want to play with my girls now, while they still want to be seen with me.  I want to feel better, and be more fit; if only to keep up with them! Then there are the medical reasons – I am currently on meds for depression, high blood pressure and asthma.  On the verge of having to take meds for diabetes.  In short, there are a lot of reasons why I need to lose this weight.  So why won’t I? Ok, I guess I have rambled on long enough.  Any suggestions, ideas, recipes that anyone would like to share with me, please do – here or via email. It is all appreciated. And away we go… sharon — 254/254/118 Lose water to reply!

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Sharon, Subway is wonderful!  I like getting the roast beaf with hot peppers and horesradish sauce.  I read once that the spicey foods help one to feel full faster, and I know that I eat slower and drink more water when I eat spicy foods.  (I also love the taste!) Good luck in the weight loss again! Chrissy

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Welcome to ASD!  For recipes that are healthy and easy, check out the newsgroup alt.food.fat-free Good luck! 204/159/150

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Hello all! I was here well over a year ago, and have been lurking again for the past two weeks.  It is interesting to see how the face of a NG can change over time.  There are a few names I recognize from my time before, but not many! Well, I am just starting out – again.  My biggest downfall is fast food. Not for lack of time, or any "good" reason.  I don’t like to cook, even though I am a SAHM, and by the time he gets home from work, my DH doesn’t feel like cooking.  The few things that I can/do cook aren’t exactly low-fat fare – I make a mean meatloaf, and great homemade mac-n-cheese.  Funny thing is, when I try, I am actually pretty good at cooking – I just don’t like to. But I am working on changing that.  Since my daughters are out of school for the summer, I have been teaching them to cook, and in the process (shhhh…..) actually starting to enjoy it a little more.  I think it’s sharing it with the girls that is making the difference. I know what I need to do – have known for about 10 years.  I just really like my cheese and hamburgers and tacos, and so on and so on…  Another huge problem for me is breakfast.  More often than not, it consists of a bag of chips and a couple glasses of water.  If anyone has any suggestions for breakfast – I am way open here. I had actually planned on starting today, but have a had a horrible headache all day.  DH is stopping for Subway for dinner – I’m having turkey breast on whole wheat, mustard and all the veggies – no chips.  It may not sound like much to some, but it is a big change from Nachos Bellgrande, soft taco Supreme and Big Beef Burrito Supreme, no? My problem is motivation.  I know it must come from inside me, I just can’t seem to get it out.  I have great reasons – two beautiful daughters I want to see grow up and be married someday, would love to have grandchildren too. And I want to play with my girls now, while they still want to be seen with me.  I want to feel better, and be more fit; if only to keep up with them! Then there are the medical reasons – I am currently on meds for depression, high blood pressure and asthma.  On the verge of having to take meds for diabetes.  In short, there are a lot of reasons why I need to lose this weight.  So why won’t I? Ok, I guess I have rambled on long enough.  Any suggestions, ideas, recipes that anyone would like to share with me, please do – here or via email.  It is all appreciated. And away we go… sharon — 254/254/118 Lose water to reply!

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Question:

Thanks for the replies.  Ignoramus11916:  yes, my grandfather has been suffering from unexplained headaches and nausea for the past 4 years. In that time, no one really took an active role in switching doctors for him or qestioning the doctor.  People of my grandparent’s age are from an entirely different generation where doctors are more or less considered close to "gods" and are not to be questioned. That being said, we(my father and I) are in the process of switching out his current doctor with a well recommended geriatric doctor in a nearby town.  Basically, his current doctor has been treating side effects of medications with more medications over the last 4 years. I did extensive research on all of the drugs that he is on and found that more or less (4 of 7), the headaches can be attributed to any of 4 drugs.  lisinopril, megestrol, actos or lipitor.  His nausea seems to be under control, but the endless headaches remain.  What’s worse is that he is taking tylenol everyday every 4 hours. It’s just a bad situation all around.  On top of this, he has a spot on one of his lungs that is most likely cancerous.  For right now, we just want him to be comfortable and not have to live with the constant headaches that sometimes wake him at night, and dominate his life. The post about alcohol possibly helping the headaches is interesting. I would not have thought of that since most of his medications warn about alcohol consumption.  For the record, up until about a month or 2 ago he would drink a can or two of beer about every day.  Considering his current conditon, he has been not consuming alcohol at all. I thought that a large part of his problems may be resolved by treating the stomach problem.  This was bearing in mind that the food he was eating was not efficiently entering his system.  I can remember when we were young that he always had to eat at a certain time or else he’d get terrible headaches(I know other people like this as well).  So of course, knowing that the pyloric valve wasn’t letting food into his intestines, the thought process was logical that when it was addressed, the headaches would possibly cease.  So far (about 5 days since starting the protonix), he is still suffering the headaches. In addition, I have been doing some research on headaches and have come across a type of headache known as "hypnic headaches" that affects a small percentage of people over age 60-65.  The description of headaches so painful that it wakens the person was a dead on indicator as well as the fact that every morning he wakes up with a headache. It’s very difficult when a lot of the symptoms are left up to a 90 year old’s interpretations…and memory.  Sometimes he will answer questions with answers that contradict earlier answers.  It only makes it worse when the doctor could care less and just keeps prescribing more pills rather than diagnose the problem correctly.  Hopefully the new doctor that we will be taking him to will take a more active role in actually trying to heal him rather than get kickbacks from prescribing endless prescriptions.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My grandfather is 90 years old and my grandmother is 87.  My grandfather has been suffering headaches & nausea for about the past 4 years.  Apparently *some* of his problems are based on the fact that he had ulcers in the past that went undetected and have consequently caused problems with his pyloric valve. He is currently taking 2 drugs to aid the problem; metoclopramide(reglan) 30 min before meals to help digestion(causes stomach contractions), and Protonix(reduces the amount of acid created in the stomach).  He is also on actos for type 2 diabetes, lipitor for cholesterol and lisinopril for hypertension. One of the main problems is that my grandmother more or less refuses to change the way she cooks, and more or less will not follow a strict diet plan when preparing meals.  She cooks with a lot of oil.  My grandfather relies on her about 80% of the time to prepare his meals so this is a problem especially considering his stomach condition. I would like to know if anyone can provide some loose "do-s" and "don’t-s" of a basic diet for someone in his conditon and of his age? Or at least point me to a website that may provide some information. His doctor has given him some generic diet plan sheets in the past, but we’ve found these to be of little or no use considering my grandmother’s stubborness and disregard for anything overly structured.  Please post if you can provide any input, Thanks!

Assuming malnutrition isn’t a problem, I wouldn’t change anything  in a 90 year old’s diet. Perhaps some alcohol if it is not contraindicated would help with nausea and/or headaches. You might want to begin thinking about a contingency plan in case your grandfather outlives his wife.

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My grandfather is 90 years old and my grandmother is 87.  My grandfather has been suffering headaches & nausea for about the past 4 years.  Apparently *some* of his problems are based on the fact that he had ulcers in the past that went undetected and have consequently caused problems with his pyloric valve. He is currently taking 2 drugs to aid the problem; metoclopramide(reglan) 30 min before meals to help digestion(causes stomach contractions), and Protonix(reduces the amount of acid created in the stomach).  He is also on actos for type 2 diabetes, lipitor for cholesterol and lisinopril for hypertension. One of the main problems is that my grandmother more or less refuses to change the way she cooks, and more or less will not follow a strict diet plan when preparing meals.  She cooks with a lot of oil.  My grandfather relies on her about 80% of the time to prepare his meals so this is a problem especially considering his stomach condition. I would like to know if anyone can provide some loose "do-s" and "don’t-s" of a basic diet for someone in his conditon and of his age? Or at least point me to a website that may provide some information. His doctor has given him some generic diet plan sheets in the past, but we’ve found these to be of little or no use considering my grandmother’s stubborness and disregard for anything overly structured.  Please post if you can provide any input, Thanks!

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Thanks for the support Mary.  Since my original post, we have brought him to the other doctor and he is being taken off of lipitor for a start.  He should be getting the biopsy done over the next couple days or so.  He is currently BACK in the hospital so they are going to do the biopsy when he is well enough.

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lisinopril, megestrol, actos or lipitor.  His nausea seems to be under control, but the endless headaches remain.  What’s worse is that he is taking tylenol everyday every 4 hours. Scary stuff. I wonder why he needs megestrol.

The megestrol was being used to give him an appetite since he hadn’t been eating nearly enough.  He was originally on 10mg 3 times a a day, and is now on 5mg.  From my research, it seems that megestrol is mostly given to cancer patients but may also be prescribed for "other" uses. That’s from drugs.com. It’s just a bad situation all around.  On top of this, he has a spot on one of his lungs that is most likely cancerous.  For right now, we just want him to be comfortable and not have to live with the constant headaches that sometimes wake him at night, and dominate his life. I am confused, has he been diagnosed with actual lung cancer? That puts everything in a different light. If so, just what kind of sense does it make to take lipitor?

Not diagnosed yet.  It has been 2 years since he had a chest xray. Something showed up on the xray he had in July, so they then did a PETA scan which identified the mass as being about 3.5cm.  The Pulmonologist said that the PETA scan is USUALLY a positive test when identifying cancer, but a biopsy is going to be scheduled to make sure.

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I would like to know if anyone can provide some loose "do-s" and "don’t-s" of a basic diet for someone in his conditon and of his age? Or at least point me to a website that may provide some information. His doctor has given him some generic diet plan sheets in the past, but we’ve found these to be of little or no use considering my grandmother’s stubborness and disregard for anything overly structured. Please post if you can provide any input, Thanks!

I don’t have any answers for you but wanted to wish you and your grandparents well. I’m glad your grandfather is getting a new doctor —   maybe that will give you some better answers than you’ve been getting from the current doctor. Mary

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Question:

A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks— Ron

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A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks— Ron

I’ve heard about that one for ages, but sorry have no link. Also fats can absorb some things as well.  I remember that Zinc is easily absorbed by milk or eggs, for instance – the fat content does it. Learned that when one of my kids ate a whole tube of zinc cream! It always pays to check with your pharmacist about that kind of thing – like the one about grapefruit and some meds. Best of luck! Annette

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You bet on Grapefruit!! During a 2 hour session with a VA Pharmacist, he wanted to make sure I understood what research had been done on Grapefruit. It kills an intestinal emzyme that controlls absorbtion through the intestinal wall. So medicines get absorbed unregulated, and you can get a very large overdose.  (can be very dangerous) He stressed that the intestines grow new emzymes, and that takes takes two–(yes two) weeks for replacement to proper levels. His point is that the "Grapefruit Effect" lasts for 2 (Two) weeks. He says he has studied the research on this for some time now. Also that all other Citrus fruits are fine to eat. Only Grapefruit has this effect. Not Oranges nor Pineapple, etc. Only Grapefruit. Best— Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks— Ron I’ve heard about that one for ages, but sorry have no link. Also fats can absorb some things as well.  I remember that Zinc is easily absorbed by milk or eggs, for instance – the fat content does it. Learned that when one of my kids ate a whole tube of zinc cream! It always pays to check with your pharmacist about that kind of thing – like the one about grapefruit and some meds. Best of luck! Annette

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You bet on Grapefruit!!

There was a post on the mechanism by which grapefruit influences drug uptake, a few weeks ago. I forget who posted it, but their explanation was to do with how the liver processes the drugs, and which is delayed by something in the grapefruit. Apparently it can lead to both over and under dosing, depending on the particular drug. It doesn’t effect all drugs though. Read the leaflet in the packet. That tells you if the drugs are grapefruit sensitive. My mother takes Felopidine (calcium antagonist) for BP, which is sensitive to grapefruit, but I take Captopril (ACE inhibitor) for my BP, which isn’t sensitive (or rather, the leaflet doesn’t mention it, so I assume it isn’t). — Chris De-* virgin for e-mail reply

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:You bet on Grapefruit!! : : There was a post on the mechanism by which grapefruit influences drug : uptake, a few weeks ago. I forget who posted it, but their explanation : was to do with how the liver processes the drugs, and which is delayed : by something in the grapefruit. Apparently it can lead to both over : and under dosing, depending on the particular drug. : It doesn’t effect all drugs though. Read the leaflet in the packet. : That tells you if the drugs are grapefruit sensitive. My mother takes : Felopidine (calcium antagonist) for BP, which is sensitive to : grapefruit, but I take Captopril (ACE inhibitor) for my BP, which : isn’t sensitive (or rather, the leaflet doesn’t mention it, so I : assume it isn’t). : — : Chris : De-* virgin for e-mail reply I take Lipitor and on the package from the pharmacy it says to not take it with grapefruit.  Whan I asked my endo it this means not to eat grapefruit at all, he said no, just not at the same time and not every day.  As   result of his advice I takd a few segments of grapefruit in the winter a few days a week tieh my cottge cheese and fruit breakfast, as I take my Lipitor just before bed at night, per the endos recommendation.   Wendy Baker

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I don’t know about *absorbing*, but calcium supps should not be taken within several hours of thyroid hormone (which should be taken by itself 2hrs after & 1 hr before anything other than water). bj

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks— Ron

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The only thing that I remember concerning taking calcium supps is that they should not be taken in conjuction with iron.  I had to be on iron for a while due to being anemic, and I never took iron and calcium together because I was told not to by a doctor.  I am assuming he gave me the right info, but if he didn’t, it was not going to hurt me to split the two supps up by taking them a couple of hours a part. Best, Dot Type 2  Diag 8/2001 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know about *absorbing*, but calcium supps should not be taken within several hours of thyroid hormone (which should be taken by itself 2hrs after & 1 hr before anything other than water). bj <A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks— Ron

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I don’t know about *absorbing*, but calcium supps should not be taken within several hours of thyroid hormone (which should be taken by itself 2hrs after & 1 hr before anything other than water). bj

Calcium should be taken with chocolate.   <grin It turns the fat into insoluble scum so it doesn’t count.  Well at least the hypothesis is being tested by some researchers paid by a chocolate company.  If it should turn out to be true then the calcium won’t be absorbed. Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       #,#< [                     / /     "... and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin/

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wrote in Calcium should be taken with chocolate.   <grin It turns the fat into insoluble scum so it doesn't count.  Well at least the hypothesis is being tested by some researchers paid by a chocolate company.  If it should turn out to be true then the calcium won't be absorbed.

So that glass and a half or rich full cream milk claim that Cadburys used as their ad base for so many years now means what?

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I ran across this, maybe take a look at #2, Item #2 Titled  "WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW CAN HURT YOU!" (If you are taking metformin!) Metformin and Calcium: WARNING! (Metformin, Calcium and B-12). I'm very tired, so I don't know if I ran across this, or it is an offspring of a link someone sent me. At night my brain goes to sleep before I do---- But this is *real* interesting----- http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/issuearchives/issue28.htm Best--- Ron

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - A while back there was a link posted about Calcium absorbing other drugs. making, in effect, some other drugs practically useless.. Does anyone have that link? If I remember right, it came from an authorative source. Thanks--- Ron

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wrote in Calcium should be taken with chocolate.   <grin It turns the fat into insoluble scum so it doesn't count.  Well at least the hypothesis is being tested by some researchers paid by a chocolate company.  If it should turn out to be true then the calcium won't be absorbed. So that glass and a half or rich full cream milk claim that Cadburys used as their ad base for so many years now means what?

Different form of calcium, unfortunately. Can you imagine a mouthful of chocolate, a quickeze, a mouthful of chocolate, a quickese. Bit like safe sex  :) joe      

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- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - You bet on Grapefruit!! During a 2 hour session with a VA Pharmacist, he wanted to make sure I understood what research had been done on Grapefruit. It kills an intestinal emzyme that controlls absorbtion through the intestinal wall. So medicines get absorbed unregulated, and you can get a very large overdose.  (can be very dangerous) He stressed that the intestines grow new emzymes, and that takes takes two--(yes two) weeks for replacement to proper levels. His point is that the "Grapefruit Effect" lasts for 2 (Two) weeks. He says he has studied the research on this for some time now. Also that all other Citrus fruits are fine to eat. Only Grapefruit has this effect. Not Oranges nor Pineapple, etc. Only Grapefruit. Best--- Ron

[skip] Something I saw on another newsgroup months ago:  Only certain grapefruit have this effect.  If you find one that doesn’t, you can safely eat more grapefruit from the same tree. However, there’s enough difference between trees in the same orchard that you cannot trust grapefruit from other trees in the same orchard to do the same, even if no one notices any other difference between them.

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Question:

Your total cholesterol is pretty low already,  I think that it would also bring down yur total  I am on lipitor and just found out my ldl is 35 and total is  143.  I take twenty mgs  Try for a month to see if you can lower it yourself,  If not ask the doctor if yu can start on ten mgs of lipitor at first.  You dont want the total cholesterol to get too low because there might be complications from that too. Loretta In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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My total is 221, the LDL is the 145 number so both are just a bit high. According to the new guidelines, people with diabetes should shoot for an LDL of less than 100. I plan on keeping a close watch on what I eat and wait until the next test to make any decisions. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Your total cholesterol is pretty low already,  I think that it would also bring down yur total  I am on lipitor and just found out my ldl is 35 and total is  143.  I take twenty mgs  Try for a month to see if you can lower it yourself,  If not ask the doctor if yu can start on ten mgs of lipitor at first.  You dont want the total cholesterol to get too low because there might be complications from that too.

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: My total is 221, the LDL is the 145 number so both are just a bit : high. According to the new guidelines, people with diabetes : should shoot for an LDL of less than 100. I plan on keeping a : close watch on what I eat and wait until the next test to make : any decisions. : Ken :Your total cholesterol is pretty low already,  I think that it would :also bring down yur total  I am on lipitor and just found out my ldl is :35 and total is  143.  I take twenty mgs  Try for a month to see if you :can lower it yourself,  If not ask the doctor if yu can start on ten mgs f lipitor at first.  You dont want the total cholesterol to get too low :because there might be complications from that too. When I started at the diabetes center my cholesterol (total) ws 256.   Sfter dieting, loosing 20 lbs, and getting my bg’s in order, the chloresterol had droped to ab out 136.  At that point the MD said I should take Lipitor 10mgs, as my good dieting and intentions weren’t doing it.   I don’t know that the ldls or hdls were at that time.  Now, with the 10 mg of Lipitor, some years later, my weight is no lower, my bg’s are in better shape and my LDLs were 91 and HDL’s 61 at last count.  If your liver tests re OK don’t waste time trying to do this without the help of meds.  To reduce all those risks of terrible vascular problems don’t be proud.   Wendy Baker

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When I started at the diabetes center my cholesterol (total) ws 256. After dieting, losing 20 lbs, and getting my bg’s in order, the

chlolesterol had droped to about 136.  At that point the MD said I should take Lipitor 10mgs, as my good dieting and intentions weren’t doing it.  …. 136 is not good enough? Or did you mean 236? bj

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HOWDY KEN, WELL, Iin my experience(family history of diabetes and early CVD) of course I exercise daily,eat right(low right) for my type 2 diabetes and all that jazz,and guess what-still high cholesterol. Having said that I had to fight w/doc to get put on lipitor since he said it was only a "little"high -but since diabetic standards are lower-I pushed;he prescribed lipitor,and guess what,m even though I eat a piece of cheese once in a while, its in the normal range,with no other side effects Dont mean to sound like  drug company spokeswoman! I mean,Im not overweight,eat right,exercise,blah blah,and STILL high chol (except for the past month while taking lipitor).So-dont worry yourself over what you could do,ok? Marilyn

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I admit to being hung up on the "no meds" goal. I recently stopped taking glucophage and am now able to keep my bg under control with just diet and exercise. I’ve been working toward this since my diagnosis in 12/ 97. Now I have to think about a cholesterol problem too. Thanks for the words. Ken – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To reduce all those risks of terrible vascular problems don’t be proud.   Wendy Baker

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Ken Long < wrote in I admit to being hung up on the "no meds" goal. I recently stopped taking glucophage and am now able to keep my bg under control with just diet and exercise. I’ve been working toward this since my diagnosis in 12/ 97. Now I have to think about a cholesterol problem too. Thanks for the words.

I hope the cholesterol problem is not a result of the type of diet you adopted to meet the goal of getting off glucophage. I see it as a real dilemma whether to move heaven and earth to maintain tight BG control, if by doing this one exposes oneself to other health risks because of the way one is eating.

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Ken…… get on the meds for chol…… they will affect your cardiovascular system heavily and in the "good" area take care, and meds are no a failure kate

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I admit to being hung up on the "no meds" goal. I recently stopped taking glucophage and am now able to keep my bg under control with just diet and exercise. I’ve been working toward this since my diagnosis in 12/ 97. Now I have to think about a cholesterol problem too. Thanks for the words. Ken To reduce all those risks of terrible vascular problems don’t be proud. Wendy Baker

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This post not CC’d by email Your total cholesterol is pretty low already,  I think that it would also bring down yur total  I am on lipitor and just found out my ldl is 35 and total is  143.  I take twenty mgs  Try for a month to see if you can lower it yourself,  If not ask the doctor if yu can start on ten mgs of lipitor at first.  You dont want the total cholesterol to get too low because there might be complications from that too. Loretta

G’day G’day Loretta,   Check that lab report again.   It seems more likely you HDL is 35 and total is 143. Best wishes, — Quentin Grady       ^  ^  / New Zealand,       #,#< [                     / /     "… and the blind dog was leading." http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just told about the new cholesterol recommendations for people with diabetes. Dr says to get the LDL under 100. He suggested Lipitor. How practical is it to try to do this without meds? I’m at 145 now and I exercise for 30 minutes a day seven days a week and do a three hour bike ride on Sundays. I eat a fairly healthy diet although I do cheat about once a week. My diet is what many would call "heart-healthy" which is very similar to what is necessary to lower cholesterol.  I’ve been able to bring my average BG down to 105 and I now keep it there with just diet and exorcise. It is practical for me to think that I can bring my LDL down that far even though my lifestyle isn’t all that bad now? Regards, Ken Long (The reply address is fake. Real address is kenl(at sign)abq(dot)com. I apologize for the inconvenience but unrelenting spam has forced me to do this.)

I believe that it is possible to lower cholesterol to some extent, and certainly change the ratio of HDL and triglicerides to total chols, by changing the types of fats that are consumed. Some foods also remove cholesterol from the intestines, and *may* help lower chols that way. The issue is still being debated and investigated by some researchers. I personally have had success with raising my HDL and lowering my trigs by consuming oils like olive oil, omega 3 oils and similar. I have practically removed most saturated fats from my diet. Never-the-less, my total chols and LDL have not dropped very much, but my ratios are great!  The doctor said there is only so much one can do  with diet alone, but YMMV. Most cholesterol is produced by the liver, and that gets into things I am not qualified to even try and describe. Lowering carb intake,  eating lots of veges etc, and exercise all have their part to play.  Remember we are dealing with a complicated system, not isolated things that function all by themselves. Everything affects everthing else.  Some have great success with improved diet and exercise, but others find they still have to have some help from the meds. Annette The more I learn, the more I become aware of my ignorance.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was just told about the new cholesterol recommendations for people with diabetes. Dr says to get the LDL under 100. He suggested Lipitor. How practical is it to try to do this without meds? I’m at 145 now and I exercise for 30 minutes a day seven days a week and do a three hour bike ride on Sundays. I eat a fairly healthy diet although I do cheat about once a week. My diet is what many would call "heart-healthy" which is very similar to what is necessary to lower cholesterol.  I’ve been able to bring my average BG down to 105 and I now keep it there with just diet and exorcise. It is practical for me to think that I can bring my LDL down that far even though my lifestyle isn’t all that bad now? Regards, Ken Long (The reply address is fake. Real address is kenl(at sign)abq(dot)com. I apologize for the inconvenience but unrelenting spam has forced me to do this.) I believe that it is possible to lower cholesterol to some extent, and certainly change the ratio of HDL and triglicerides to total chols, by changing the types of fats that are consumed. Some foods also remove cholesterol from the intestines, and *may* help lower chols that way. The issue is still being debated and investigated by some researchers. I personally have had success with raising my HDL and lowering my trigs by consuming oils like olive oil, omega 3 oils and similar. I have practically removed most saturated fats from my diet. Never-the-less, my total chols and LDL have not dropped very much, but my ratios are great!  The doctor said there is only so much one can do  with diet alone, but YMMV. Most cholesterol is produced by the liver, and that gets into things I am not qualified to even try and describe. Lowering carb intake,  eating lots of veges etc, and exercise all have their part to play.  Remember we are dealing with a complicated system, not isolated things that function all by themselves. Everything affects everthing else.  Some have great success with improved diet and exercise, but others find they still have to have some help from the meds. Annette The more I learn, the more I become aware of my ignorance.

Your description is interesting; I would add some items from my own experience — As much as possible, eliminate stress.  We know it can make your BG funny, I’ve seen it push LDL’s as well. Eat/sleep on a regular schedule. Try to rely on fresh fruits/vegetables vs. frozen, canned, etc.  (Can’t explain this one, just seemed to help when I switched.  I was already avoiding the stuff canned/frozen with additional carbs.) My lifetime worst LDL was when I was working rotating shifts in a job with security issues. It dropped when I got a job with regular, daylight hours; dropped again when I got a job without too much stress. The thing I found with Chols is that they move much more slowly than BG — you can’t see a change in a day or a week.

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I was just told about the new cholesterol recommendations for people with diabetes. Dr says to get the LDL under 100. He suggested Lipitor. How practical is it to try to do this without meds? I’m at 145 now and I exercise for 30 minutes a day seven days a week and do a three hour bike ride on Sundays. I eat a fairly healthy diet although I do cheat about once a week. My diet is what many would call "heart-healthy" which is very similar to what is necessary to lower cholesterol.  I’ve been able to bring my average BG down to 105 and I now keep it there with just diet and exorcise. It is practical for me to think that I can bring my LDL down that far even though my lifestyle isn’t all that bad now? Regards, Ken Long (The reply address is fake. Real address is kenl(at sign)abq(dot)com. I apologize for the inconvenience but unrelenting spam has forced me to do this.)

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Question:

Ditto what Loretta said about blood thinners. I am on Coumadin and have been for sometime before I was ever diagnosed with diabetes, as I have arterial fibulation and I am never to take aspirin. I fact my cardiologist said I should even stay away from tylenol or any ibibufen as well. As far as eating broccholi he said go ahead in moderation and let the doctors worry about adjusting the dosage. Right now I am on 1.25mg two days and then 2.50 for one day and again two more days of 1.25 and I test with PT very often…like every week or so. I can’t tell you what the nr is or the ratio but I let the docs worry about that. I eat a lot f veggies and I’ve even been on a list for the Coumadin group who send me a publicatio every now and again. By the way…I am type 2 diabetic and do not take any meds…just diet and excercise and I already bragged that my A/1/c was 5.6 when the range was to 6.0 Good luck to you. As someone already said there are a lot of friendly, knowledgeable people at this locale.Welcome aboard.

Response:

I will discuss this with my doctor — Visit www.diabeticnet.com ‘You know you are getting old when you take all night to do what you used to do all night" "I may not be good as I once was, but I am as good once as I always was" "The older the violin, the sweeter the music"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ditto what Loretta said about blood thinners. I am on Coumadin and have been for sometime before I was ever diagnosed with diabetes, as I have arterial fibulation and I am never to take aspirin. I fact my cardiologist said I should even stay away from tylenol or any ibibufen as well. As far as eating broccholi he said go ahead in moderation and let the doctors worry about adjusting the dosage. Right now I am on 1.25mg two days and then 2.50 for one day and again two more days of 1.25 and I test with PT very often…like every week or so. I can’t tell you what the nr is or the ratio but I let the docs worry about that. I eat a lot f veggies and I’ve even been on a list for the Coumadin group who send me a publicatio every now and again. By the way…I am type 2 diabetic and do not take any meds…just diet and excercise and I already bragged that my A/1/c was 5.6 when the range was to 6.0 Good luck to you. As someone already said there are a lot of friendly, knowledgeable people at this locale.Welcome aboard.

Response:

arteriosclerosis is the leading cause of heart attaches, uncontrolled diabetes results in high BGs which also thickens the blood making an already bad condition even worse. the most up to date CPR training courses use data from 1991.  Education being one of the best ways to prevent heart problems you think this info would be updated to include faqs on diabetes as well, especially with the increased number of type 2 over the past few years. — Derek type 1, Insulin Pump http://www.diabeticnet.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Our local Endo asserts that all Type II’s should be treated as if they have had at least one heart attack, even if they don’t seem to have much of a problem.   He recommends statins (Lipitor and the like) at the first sign of any type of problem.  My doc claims that Lipitor and the other statins have some sort of effect on arteries (not cholesterol reduction) which helps prevent heart attacks.  Some think it conditions the surfaces so as to minimize clot formation.   I had a 45-year old cousin and a 53-year old cousin die from clot type heart attacks.  A 200 cholesterol reading qualified me for Lipitor at age 58.  I think my Lipitor is so important that one important facet of my life is avoiding stress on my liver (alcohol, Tylenol) so as not to endanger my ability to take Lipitor. Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

I am so surprised to hear that they told you to take cuumadin along with aspirin. The cuumadin thins the blood and if you ake aspirin which causes bleeding, I dont understand.  I have a friend who had a heart attack and a mitral valve replacement and she is on cuumadin but she is not allowed anything except tylenol because insaids and aspirin can cause bleeding and is not allowed broccoli or spinach to prevent clotting. I dont know why they told you to take an aspirin.  I would question that. Loretta If life is such a bowl of Cherries, why am I aways in the pits:  Erma Bombeck

Response:

sorry that was type 1 and not type 1.9 (like being almost pregnang) Buck — Visit www.diabeticnet.com ‘You know you are getting old when you take all night to do what you used to do all night" "I may not be good as I once was, but I am as good once as I always was" "The older the violin, the sweeter the music"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just recently found out that my fairly recent stroke was caused by clotting, as well as the mild heart attack. Fortunately, my current endo takes the same philosophy, although they recently diagnosed my as Type 1.9 (after having been previously diagnosed as type 2)  I was recently prescribed Lipitor as well as cummadin, aspirin therapy and various other meds. Great point.  I concur Buck — Visit www.diabeticnet.com ‘You know you are getting old when you take all night to do what you used to do all night" "I may not be good as I once was, but I am as good once as I always was" "The older the violin, the sweeter the music"   Our local Endo asserts that all Type II’s should be treated as if they have had at least one heart attack, even if they don’t seem to have much of a problem.   He recommends statins (Lipitor and the like) at the first sign of any type of problem.  My doc claims that Lipitor and the other statins have some sort of effect on arteries (not cholesterol reduction) which helps prevent heart attacks.  Some think it conditions the surfaces so as to minimize clot formation.   I had a 45-year old cousin and a 53-year old cousin die from clot type heart attacks.  A 200 cholesterol reading qualified me for Lipitor at age 58.  I think my Lipitor is so important that one important facet of my life is avoiding stress on my liver (alcohol, Tylenol) so as not to endanger my ability to take Lipitor. Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

  Our local Endo asserts that all Type II’s should be treated as if they have had at least one heart attack, even if they don’t seem to have much of a problem.   He recommends statins (Lipitor and the like) at the first sign of any type of problem.  My doc claims that Lipitor and the other statins have some sort of effect on arteries (not cholesterol reduction) which helps prevent heart attacks.  Some think it conditions the surfaces so as to minimize clot formation.   I had a 45-year old cousin and a 53-year old cousin die from clot type heart attacks.  A 200 cholesterol reading qualified me for Lipitor at age 58.  I think my Lipitor is so important that one important facet of my life is avoiding stress on my liver (alcohol, Tylenol) so as not to endanger my ability to take Lipitor. Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

I just recently found out that my fairly recent stroke was caused by clotting, as well as the mild heart attack. Fortunately, my current endo takes the same philosophy, although they recently diagnosed my as Type 1.9 (after having been previously diagnosed as type 2)  I was recently prescribed Lipitor as well as cummadin, aspirin therapy and various other meds. Great point.  I concur Buck — Visit www.diabeticnet.com ‘You know you are getting old when you take all night to do what you used to do all night" "I may not be good as I once was, but I am as good once as I always was" "The older the violin, the sweeter the music"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Our local Endo asserts that all Type II’s should be treated as if they have had at least one heart attack, even if they don’t seem to have much of a problem.   He recommends statins (Lipitor and the like) at the first sign of any type of problem.  My doc claims that Lipitor and the other statins have some sort of effect on arteries (not cholesterol reduction) which helps prevent heart attacks.  Some think it conditions the surfaces so as to minimize clot formation.   I had a 45-year old cousin and a 53-year old cousin die from clot type heart attacks.  A 200 cholesterol reading qualified me for Lipitor at age 58.  I think my Lipitor is so important that one important facet of my life is avoiding stress on my liver (alcohol, Tylenol) so as not to endanger my ability to take Lipitor. Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

Question:

: someone yet again has mentioned this grapefruit and medication thing : I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin (glucophage) and : it has no ill effects for me : Please note, however, grapefruit is high in CARBS which will obviously affct : bg readings!!! duuurrrr : BBB It is lower in carbs than man other fruits. A half grapefruit is about 10 carb grams, less than many other fruits.  That is only 2/3 of a carb unit of 15.  In general, I have been told by many MDs and dieticians over the years to never drink fruit juices unless to cover a low.  This is something i have been told without asking, it is just part of the general directions. Wendy Baker

Response:

I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin

I’m going to have to correct you here.  Not your typing (who cares?), but your reference to a "glass of grapefruit."  You mean a glass of grapefruit *juice*.  This isn’t pedantry; for many purposes, it really makes sense to think of a fruit, and the juice from that fruit, as two completely different foods.  That’s especially true when it comes to carb counts. What a lot of people seem to forget is that you have to squeeze quite a few oranges or grapefruits to get a single glass of orange or grapefruit juice.   Since most of the non-fiber carbs in citrus fruit are in the juice, that means that for BG control purposes, drinking a small glass of fruit juice is like really pigging out on the fruit itself.  And conversely, you can’t judge the effect of eating an orange or grapefruit based on how you react to a glass of juice. That’s what we mean when we say that juices are a "concentrated" or "refined" source of carbohydrate; it’s easy to consume a lot of carbs from them without feeling like you’ve eaten much.  Most people would think that eating 4 or 5 oranges in one sitting would be a lot.  And it is.  You’d have to chew, chew, chew.  You’d feel full afterwards.  But drinking a glass of orange juice, which contains as much carb as all those oranges, doesn’t *seem* like a lot.  It bypasses all that effort and doesn’t fill you up.

Response:

Dam spel checkquerr.  I disabl it now  Is gud, no? Annette – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ok, before anyone else says it I should spell check duuurrrrr BBB someone yet again has mentioned this grapefruit and medication thing I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin (glucophage) and it has no ill effects for me Please note, however, grapefruit is high in CARBS which will obviously affct bg readings!!! duuurrrr BBB Congrats you are doing well even with the citrus you are not too high You are fortunate that you can have some, I wish for a low so I can have a couple of ounces of orange juice, LOL Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

I was searching the drug interaction database and I found grapefruit has a tendency to interact negatively with some of my meds. www.drug-interaction.com   this place will let you enter all mads you take and list possible interactions but I am NOT giving up my grapefruit Dave Milk

The lisinopril is the drug that grapefruit reacts with.  Mom was on it for a while, her doc told her that she could have grapefruit,on occasion, but she has to watch her timing.  Mom’s doc told her not to eat the grapefruit within two hours before or after the lisinopril. Hope this helps. Marie, Caretaker Mom T2 Dx 3/2002

Response:

: I was searching the drug interaction database and I found grapefruit has a : tendency to interact negatively with some of my meds. : www.drug-interaction.com   this place will let you enter all mads you take : and list possible interactions but I am NOT giving up my grapefruit : Dave Milk I also take lipitor which says no grapefruit.  I have discussed this with both my endo and pharmacist and gotton the sme reply.  In modertion, grapefruit is ok, but don’t take it at the sme time yu take your lipitor.   Since I take the lipitor just before i go to be, this is not a problem.  I will have a half grapefruit occasionally for breakfast, with my cottage cheese, or for dessert at dinner.  this works well for me. Wendy Baker

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to this, diagnosed Dec 2002. Took a month for the testing stuff to arrive. Modern HMOs are going to kill a bunch of people. Thankfully the HR department at work was some what helpful. I actually got a call from the medical provider asking me to stop sending emails.  Novel concept. I digress for a moment. I was running in a broad range from 70-130. Diet and exercise has helped. Dropped below a 100 for several days. I then ate 4 navels and 3 grapefruit in a couple of days. Bang up to 110-120 range. I have  stayed off the citrus for two days now and my last test was 87 one hour after eating. This morning it was 101 and last night before bed it was 75.  Is hovering about the 100 mark ok?   I feel good, course loosing 25 pounds does not hurt at all.  The next 25 pounds will help more. Metformin 1000 a day lisinopril        40 lipitor             20 glyburide         5 Thank you for all of the support and information. Education is the key to this. If I had thought about living this long I would have taken better care of myself.  ;)

Welcome to the group Al. You are doing great, by all accounts. Hovering around the 100 mark is excellent progress.  As your weight continues to drop, so will your insulin resistance, and hopefully your daily bg readings, till you become an new member of our 5% club (an A1c reading from a blood test).  Anyone who achieves an A1c of under 6% automatically qualifies!  Your reward will be feeling great, improved health and a greatly reduced chance of deveoping complications.  Not to mention an extended life span in tip top condition. To paraphrase an old expression "the only way is…. down!" And as for the citrus fruit effect on your bg, well, that’s good information to have.  To get your fresh vitamin C and lots of other goodies found in fruit generally, yet not spike, try the berries. They are low in carbs.  You can also make a garden salad and add a little bit of your favourite fruit to it, (a question of portion control), and yet not have to eat the whole fruit. It adds a little sweet shot of surprise and interest to the salad. Keep an eye on tomatoes and beetroot as well. Although they supply some excellent nutrients, they have a bit more carb than one would expect.  Be moderate in their inclusion if you suspect a spike. YMMV though, some people can eat lots without a worry. I really liked your tag line. It reminded me of a comment once made by Dolly Parton, the famous country singer and movie star, when her sister wrote a story about their early childhood.  She commented "If I’d known she was gonna write a book about me, I would have been much nicer to her as a kid!" Keep posting and tell us how you are doing. Especially if you make that 5% club! Annette

Response:

I take Altocor for cholesteral.  It says on the bottle and on the pharmacy sheet that you are to not eat grapefruit while taking it.  It depends upon the medication.  Glucophage doesn’t have that problem’ c c – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone yet again has mentioned this grapefruit and medication thing I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin (glucophage) and it has no ill effects for me Please note, however, grapefruit is high in CARBS which will obviously affct bg readings!!! duuurrrr BBB Congrats you are doing well even with the citrus you are not too high You are fortunate that you can have some, I wish for a low so I can have a couple of ounces of orange juice, LOL Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

someone yet again has mentioned this grapefruit and medication thing I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin (glucophage) and it has no ill effects for me Please note, however, grapefruit is high in CARBS which will obviously affct bg readings!!! duuurrrr BBB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congrats you are doing well even with the citrus you are not too high You are fortunate that you can have some, I wish for a low so I can have a couple of ounces of orange juice, LOL Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

ok, before anyone else says it I should spell check duuurrrrr BBB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone yet again has mentioned this grapefruit and medication thing I take a glass of grwpeefruit every day, I am on metformin (glucophage) and it has no ill effects for me Please note, however, grapefruit is high in CARBS which will obviously affct bg readings!!! duuurrrr BBB Congrats you are doing well even with the citrus you are not too high You are fortunate that you can have some, I wish for a low so I can have a couple of ounces of orange juice, LOL Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

I am new to this, diagnosed Dec 2002. Took a month for the testing stuff to arrive. Modern HMOs are going to kill a bunch of people. Thankfully the HR department at work was some what helpful. I actually got a call from the medical provider asking me to stop sending emails.  Novel concept. I digress for a moment. I was running in a broad range from 70-130. Diet and exercise has helped. Dropped below a 100 for several days. I then ate 4 navels and 3 grapefruit in a couple of days. Bang up to 110-120 range. I have  stayed off the citrus for two days now and my last test was 87 one hour after eating.  This morning it was 101 and last night before bed it was 75.  Is hovering about the 100 mark ok?   I feel good, course loosing 25 pounds does not hurt at all.  The next 25 pounds will help more. Metformin 1000 a day lisinopril        40 lipitor             20 glyburide         5 Thank you for all of the support and information. Education is the key to this. If I had thought about living this long I would have taken better care of myself.  ;)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to this, diagnosed Dec 2002. Took a month for the testing stuff to arrive. Modern HMOs are going to kill a bunch of people. Thankfully the HR department at work was some what helpful. I actually got a call from the medical provider asking me to stop sending emails.  Novel concept. I digress for a moment. I was running in a broad range from 70-130. Diet and exercise has helped. Dropped below a 100 for several days. I then ate 4 navels and 3 grapefruit in a couple of days. Bang up to 110-120 range. I have  stayed off the citrus for two days now and my last test was 87 one hour after eating.  This morning it was 101 and last night before bed it was 75.  Is hovering about the 100 mark ok?   I feel good, course loosing 25 pounds does not hurt at all.  The next 25 pounds will help more. Metformin 1000 a day lisinopril        40 lipitor             20 glyburide         5 Thank you for all of the support and information. Education is the key to this. If I had thought about living this long I would have taken better care of myself.  ;)

Your BG will vary.  Many people shoot for <110 fasting and <120 or <140 at two hours after eating.  Nothing wrong with 110-120.  The trick isn’t to see how low you can go.  It’s to avoid highs and lows. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting from new account

Response:

Congrats you are doing well even with the citrus you are not too high You are fortunate that you can have some, I wish for a low so I can have a couple of ounces of orange juice, LOL Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

Response:

I was searching the drug interaction database and I found grapefruit has a tendency to interact negatively with some of my meds. www.drug-interaction.com   this place will let you enter all mads you take and list possible interactions but I am NOT giving up my grapefruit Dave Milk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok my choice of words is poor, I thank you for understanding. I am staying within a 20 point range now. They say high blood sugar, so I had thought, incorrectly thanks to you, lower was better. I have an appointment with the Dr in a week and I am sure he and I will have some more things to talk about. Big thanks Alan I am new to this, diagnosed Dec 2002. Took a month for the testing stuff to arrive. Modern HMOs are going to kill a bunch of people. Thankfully the HR department at work was some what helpful. I actually got a call from the medical provider asking me to stop sending emails.  Novel concept. I digress for a moment. I was running in a broad range from 70-130. Diet and exercise has helped. Dropped below a 100 for several days. I then ate 4 navels and 3 grapefruit in a couple of days. Bang up to 110-120 range. I have  stayed off the citrus for two days now and my last test was 87 one hour after eating.  This morning it was 101 and last night before bed it was 75.  Is hovering about the 100 mark ok?   I feel good, course loosing 25 pounds does not hurt at all.  The next 25 pounds will help more. Metformin 1000 a day lisinopril        40 lipitor             20 glyburide         5 Thank you for all of the support and information. Education is the key to this. If I had thought about living this long I would have taken better care of myself.  ;) Your BG will vary.  Many people shoot for <110 fasting and <120 or <140 at two hours after eating.  Nothing wrong with 110-120.  The trick isn’t to see how low you can go.  It’s to avoid highs and lows. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting from new account

Response:

Ok my choice of words is poor, I thank you for understanding. I am staying within a 20 point range now. They say high blood sugar, so I had thought, incorrectly thanks to you, lower was better. I have an appointment with the Dr in a week and I am sure he and I will have some more things to talk about. Big thanks Alan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am new to this, diagnosed Dec 2002. Took a month for the testing stuff to arrive. Modern HMOs are going to kill a bunch of people. Thankfully the HR department at work was some what helpful. I actually got a call from the medical provider asking me to stop sending emails.  Novel concept. I digress for a moment. I was running in a broad range from 70-130. Diet and exercise has helped. Dropped below a 100 for several days. I then ate 4 navels and 3 grapefruit in a couple of days. Bang up to 110-120 range. I have  stayed off the citrus for two days now and my last test was 87 one hour after eating.  This morning it was 101 and last night before bed it was 75.  Is hovering about the 100 mark ok?   I feel good, course loosing 25 pounds does not hurt at all.  The next 25 pounds will help more. Metformin 1000 a day lisinopril        40 lipitor             20 glyburide         5 Thank you for all of the support and information. Education is the key to this. If I had thought about living this long I would have taken better care of myself.  ;) Your BG will vary.  Many people shoot for <110 fasting and <120 or <140 at two hours after eating.  Nothing wrong with 110-120.  The trick isn’t to see how low you can go.  It’s to avoid highs and lows. — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/ Julie Bove, posting from new account

Response:

Question:

Just after Christmas I was diagnosed with diabetes. I got a prescription for Glyburide 5mg twice daily and Zocor 40 mg at bed time. My bloodsugar dropped daily and within a week it was normal. It was in the 400 – 500 range what the Dr. told me. Now it is between 100 – 70 two weeks later. Here is the killer. I never wore glasses. My eyesight went completely from being able to see clear from 1 foot to infinity, now I have no depth of field and need glasses to just get by. I am using my reading glasses for distance. This started after I was taking these pills. When I told the Dr. about it she said to continue taking medication. I can say that my eyesight got worse as my blood sugar count improved. 1. Should I be worried that my eyesight got damaged by the pills? 2. Is my eyesight going to be back to normal after stopping medication? 3. Anyone experienced similar problems? Thanks Ray

Response:

Just after Christmas I was diagnosed with diabetes. I got a prescription for Glyburide 5mg twice daily and Zocor 40 mg at bed time.

Merry Christmas, Ray!! My bloodsugar dropped daily and within a week it was normal. It was in the 400 – 500 range what the Dr. told me. Now it is between 100 – 70 two weeks later. Here is the killer. I never wore glasses. My eyesight went completely from being able to see clear from 1 foot to infinity, now I have no depth of field and need glasses to just get by. I am using my reading glasses for distance. This started after I was taking these pills. When I told the Dr. about it she said to continue taking medication. I can say that my eyesight got worse as my blood sugar count improved. 1. Should I be worried that my eyesight got damaged by the pills?

Probably not. Most likely, your eyes were damaged by prolonged high blood sugar levels. As your levels stabilize, so should your eyesight. 2. Is my eyesight going to be back to normal after stopping medication? 3. Anyone experienced similar problems? Thanks Ray

– Wolf & Ladyhawk (In the mist of dawn two souls becoming one if only for a instant)

Response:

Hello Wolf and Ladyhawk, belated Merry Christmas to you also, I appreciate your quick reply. I was really worried that my eye problems might be permanent. I will post my progress on alt.support.diabetes. Thanks Ray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just after Christmas I was diagnosed with diabetes. I got a prescription for Glyburide 5mg twice daily and Zocor 40 mg at bed time. Merry Christmas, Ray!! My bloodsugar dropped daily and within a week it was normal. It was in the 400 – 500 range what the Dr. told me. Now it is between 100 – 70 two weeks later. Here is the killer. I never wore glasses. My eyesight went completely from being able to see clear from 1 foot to infinity, now I have no depth of field and need glasses to just get by. I am using my reading glasses for distance. This started after I was taking these pills. When I told the Dr. about it she said to continue taking medication. I can say that my eyesight got worse as my blood sugar count improved. 1. Should I be worried that my eyesight got damaged by the pills? Probably not. Most likely, your eyes were damaged by prolonged high blood sugar levels. As your levels stabilize, so should your eyesight. 2. Is my eyesight going to be back to normal after stopping medication? 3. Anyone experienced similar problems? Thanks Ray — Wolf & Ladyhawk (In the mist of dawn two souls becoming one if only for a instant)

Response:

Hello Mike and All, Your reply made my day, I am as happy as a kid in a candy store, pardon me, a diabetic in a health food store. grin. If my eyesight goes back to normal, and I can see again, I promise never to eat bad food again. Thanks again and I will post my progress periodically. Ray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1. Should I be worried that my eyesight got damaged by the pills? 2. Is my eyesight going to be back to normal after stopping medication? 3. Anyone experienced similar problems? I don’t think your medication is causing the eye problems.  When our glucose first starts to get under control our body needs time to adjust. Your body has gotten used to the unhealthy high levels of glucose in your blood.  It’s common for people to have vision problems when the levels of glucose first drops down to normal levels, however, it is usually only a temporary problem.  After a few days or weeks of healthy glucose levels your vision should return to normal, or at least as normal as it was before. You can read more about it here: http://www.diabetesnet.com/eyes.html Click on Eye Changes at Diagnosis. Sorry you have to join us, but know that you are always welcome here. Please post often and keep us informed on your progress.  The people in this group are wonderful and have been a lifesaver to me. Take care. — Mike Smith "I believe that we are solely responsible for our choices, and we have to accept the consequences of every deed, word, and thought throughout our lifetime."        -Elisabeth Kubler-Ross

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just after Christmas I was diagnosed with diabetes. I got a prescription for Glyburide 5mg twice daily and Zocor 40 mg at bed time. My bloodsugar dropped daily and within a week it was normal. It was in the 400 – 500 range what the Dr. told me. Now it is between 100 – 70 two weeks later. Here is the killer. I never wore glasses. My eyesight went completely from being able to see clear from 1 foot to infinity, now I have no depth of field and need glasses to just get by.  .  .[snip] 1. Should I be worried that my eyesight got damaged by the pills? 2. Is my eyesight going to be back to normal after stopping medication? 3. Anyone experienced similar problems? Thanks Ray

  The Wolf and LadyHawk said it all. . .high sugar distorts your eye- balls but it looks like the distortion actually helped you instead of making the whole world fuzzy as it did for me when I was first diagnosed.   A word about the Zocor. . .the statins are very beneficial to us diabetics.  I have rearranged my lifestyle (no Tylenol, no niacin) to preserve my ability to take Lipitor, my doc’s favorite statin.  I wouldn’t be surprised if sometime in the next 10 years, they put all Type 2’s over 40 on statins as a standard treatment.  Our local endo is really high on them. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

  A word about the Zocor. . .the statins are very beneficial to us diabetics.  I have rearranged my lifestyle (no Tylenol, no niacin) to preserve my ability to take Lipitor, my doc’s favorite statin.

Al can you please explain the above. What has tylenol got to do with taking statins. TIA

Response:

Al can you please explain the above. What has tylenol got to do with taking statins. TIA

Check the warning label on Tylenol — Ronnie Ruff Please visit:   http://www.diabeticnet.com Also: http://www.freespeech.org/ronnieruff The opinions expressed here aren’t even mine… To err is human…to really foul up requires the root password.

Response:

Al can you please explain the above. What has tylenol got to do with taking statins. TIA Check the warning label on Tylenol

Tylenol is not common here, is it another brand name for paracetamol? This is our commonest pain reliever.

Response:

Old Al:   A word about the Zocor. . .the statins are very beneficial to us diabetics.  I have rearranged my lifestyle (no Tylenol, no niacin) to preserve my ability to take Lipitor, my doc’s favorite statin.

Jan: Al can you please explain the above. What has tylenol got to do with taking statins. TIA

Tylenol has a fairly sharp dose-damage curve such that an overdose can put very severe stress on the liver.  There are web reports of death from not much of an overdose of Tylenol attacking the liver.  As best I know, he NSAID’s such as aspirin, ibuprofen, naprosyn, (sorry for the spelling, I am going low) etc have a more gradual dose-response effect on major organs.    Statins stress the liver,  Niacin has some sort of synergistic effect on my Statin’s ability to stress the liver (read the package insert on your particular form of statin) I have a friend who cannot take statins because the normal dose overstresses his liver.  I am afraid that he will not live out a normal life span.  Therefore, I avoid any over-the-counter "anything" which is known to be able to stress the liver so that my ability to take statins is preserved.   My logic may be a bit fuzzy, perhaps a a fearful over reaction, but I have only one liver, one set of arteries, a local Endo who preaches that diabetics must go overboard in their quest to avoid heart attacks  and a genetic history of premature heart attacks . — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

Thanks Al, and I don’t think you are over reacting.  Statins attack my muscles severely but I am hoping to one day work through that.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tylenol has a fairly sharp dose-damage curve such that an overdose can put very severe stress on the liver.  There are web reports of death from not much of an overdose of Tylenol attacking the liver.  As best I know, he NSAID’s such as aspirin, ibuprofen, naprosyn, (sorry for the spelling, I am going low) etc have a more gradual dose-response effect on major organs.

Response:

  "Jan" asked Al: Al can you please explain . . .what has tylenol got to do with taking statins.

Ronnie Ruff noted: Check the warning label on Tylenol

 and Jan replied: Tylenol is not common here, is it another brand name for paracetamol? This is our commonest pain reliever.

 and Al chimed in:   I would guess yes.  One generic trade name for the active ingredient in Tylenol is acetaminophen, a proper chemical name is para- acetylaminophenol.  You can see a real temptation to abbreviate para-acetylaminophenol as paracetamol.  (My wife says "polychicken scratch" would be a better abbrev.)   However, the topic is sort of moot.  These folks    http://www.infomed.org/100drugs/paraadre.html  say that paracetamol can seriously affect the liver.   My friend who cannot take statins experienced muscle weakness, hair loss and a cataract.  I can’t remember if they detected liver attack. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

Thanks Al, I eat paracetamol like lollies with codeine and a sedative added for migraine. I never was able to get past day 2 with statins, hard when you can’t walk at all or lift a cup of tea because of muscle pain.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   "Jan" asked Al: Al can you please explain . . .what has tylenol got to do with taking statins. Ronnie Ruff noted: Check the warning label on Tylenol  and Jan replied: Tylenol is not common here, is it another brand name for paracetamol? This is our commonest pain reliever.  and Al chimed in:   I would guess yes.  One generic trade name for the active ingredient in Tylenol is acetaminophen, a proper chemical name is para- acetylaminophenol.  You can see a real temptation to abbreviate para-acetylaminophenol as paracetamol.  (My wife says "polychicken scratch" would be a better abbrev.)   However, the topic is sort of moot.  These folks    http://www.infomed.org/100drugs/paraadre.html  say that paracetamol can seriously affect the liver.   My friend who cannot take statins experienced muscle weakness, hair loss and a cataract.  I can’t remember if they detected liver attack. — Old Al (T1x since 94, 35 units H + U via 4 injections daily)     A retired engineer who shares his experiences

Response:

Question:

Hi All, I’ve been lurking for a couple of days and now it is time to come out of the shadows and show my face. This is my first foray into newsgroups, although I had been a member of the diabetes forum on CompuServe several years ago (pre-AOL). I’m a 42 year old male, diabetic since 1991, type 1 (or more likely, type "one and a half" as Biermann and Toohey call it. I’m 6′0" and 151 lbs. and very insulin sensitive) on insulin for 5 years or so. Over the years I’ve been through the range of BG control, from really lousy to (now) really excellent. This past January my HbA1c was 8.0, this past week it was 6.2! I’m pretty excited about this and everyone I talk to who’s not DM doesn’t seem to know how great this is. Since I can’t educate them all, I’m bragging in front of all of you! The big change is that I read Dr. Bernstein’s book about 3 months ago and immediately started the regimen. At the beginning I was taking 60 units a day, now I’m down to 25, some days less. I was perfect for about a month, I’ve slacked off since then but not in a way that really has me discouraged about not being "perfect". I am still so utterly amazed that I have lost all my carbohydrate cravings, that I can eat real food that I love (no, not cookies and ice cream. I love those too, but they just don’t make me feel good anymore). Everyday of my life, for as long as I can recall, I spent the majority of my time thinking about food and craving carbohydrates. I could not eat them in small quantities either, I had to finish the bag (preferably the large one). Four days into the diet, this was gone. Other changes I made concurrently have, I’m sure, had an enormous effect as well. I stopped drinking coffee (and I don’t miss it because I’m not tired all the time from high bg’s), I sleep at least 8 hours a day. I hope this is not boorish but, here’s my lipid profile from last week: Total cholesterol        187 Triglycerides              106 Direct HDL                77 Calculated LDL          89 Chol/HDL Ratio         2.4 I eat as much butter as I want. Generally, I have 4 eggs for breakfast and something like homemade Cole slaw  or broccoli that totals (with the eggs) 6g CHO and 24g PRO. Lunch is usually El Pollo Loco 3 piece dark meat with two sides of vegetables, probably about 30g PRO and 8-12g CHO. Dinner is usually pretty light because lunch keeps me feeling sated. Breakfast is covered with 3 units of R or H depending on timing and lunch is covered with 3.5 units, usually H. 6u NPH at waking and 12u at bedtime takes care of my basal needs except that, if I skip lunch my pre-dinner bg will be high. The N stops covering the basal in the late afternoon. I test frequently. Depending on circumstances – 5-16 times per day, usually 6-7. I have recently had very few (relatively speaking) hypos and my bg rarely goes over 110, even 1 hour post-prandial. Four months ago if anyone had told me that I could have normal bg I would have laughed in his/her face. I have to be on this all the time, but I’m finding it to be very motivating to have such success. I never dreamed I would be able to do this. I feel great too. Well, I find this all fascinating, I realize others may not. I hope I’m not too obnoxious, but I have to tell people about what’s going on or I’m going to bust! Thanks, for reading this far! — Joe Lightfoot

Response:

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.  It’s amazing isn’t it? Started out a year ago with a dx at 15.3… last A1c:  4.3 I’ve carb craved my whole life.  Could eat a pound of pasta and an hour later with my stomach hurting from the contents, I’d be in the kitchen looking for something to eat. If they cured DM tomorrow, I’d still stay low carb. Congrats Joseph! Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, I’ve been lurking for a couple of days and now it is time to come out of the shadows and show my face. This is my first foray into newsgroups, although I had been a member of the diabetes forum on CompuServe several years ago (pre-AOL). I’m a 42 year old male, diabetic since 1991, type 1 (or more likely, type "one and a half" as Biermann and Toohey call it. I’m 6′0" and 151 lbs. and very insulin sensitive) on insulin for 5 years or so. Over the years I’ve been through the range of BG control, from really lousy to (now) really excellent. This past January my HbA1c was 8.0, this past week it was 6.2! I’m pretty excited about this and everyone I talk to who’s not DM doesn’t seem to know how great this is. Since I can’t educate them all, I’m bragging in front of all of you! The big change is that I read Dr. Bernstein’s book about 3 months ago and immediately started the regimen. At the beginning I was taking 60 units a day, now I’m down to 25, some days less. I was perfect for about a month, I’ve slacked off since then but not in a way that really has me discouraged about not being "perfect". I am still so utterly amazed that I have lost all my carbohydrate cravings, that I can eat real food that I love (no, not cookies and ice cream. I love those too, but they just don’t make me feel good anymore). Everyday of my life, for as long as I can recall, I spent the majority of my time thinking about food and craving carbohydrates. I could not eat them in small quantities either, I had to finish the bag (preferably the large one). Four days into the diet, this was gone. Other changes I made concurrently have, I’m sure, had an enormous effect as well. I stopped drinking coffee (and I don’t miss it because I’m not tired all the time from high bg’s), I sleep at least 8 hours a day. I hope this is not boorish but, here’s my lipid profile from last week: Total cholesterol        187 Triglycerides              106 Direct HDL                77 Calculated LDL          89 Chol/HDL Ratio         2.4 I eat as much butter as I want. Generally, I have 4 eggs for breakfast and something like homemade Cole slaw  or broccoli that totals (with the eggs) 6g CHO and 24g PRO. Lunch is usually El Pollo Loco 3 piece dark meat with two sides of vegetables, probably about 30g PRO and 8-12g CHO. Dinner is usually pretty light because lunch keeps me feeling sated. Breakfast is covered with 3 units of R or H depending on timing and lunch is covered with 3.5 units, usually H. 6u NPH at waking and 12u at bedtime takes care of my basal needs except that, if I skip lunch my pre-dinner bg will be high. The N stops covering the basal in the late afternoon. I test frequently. Depending on circumstances – 5-16 times per day, usually 6-7. I have recently had very few (relatively speaking) hypos and my bg rarely goes over 110, even 1 hour post-prandial. Four months ago if anyone had told me that I could have normal bg I would have laughed in his/her face. I have to be on this all the time, but I’m finding it to be very motivating to have such success. I never dreamed I would be able to do this. I feel great too. Well, I find this all fascinating, I realize others may not. I hope I’m not too obnoxious, but I have to tell people about what’s going on or I’m going to bust! Thanks, for reading this far! — Joe Lightfoot

Response:

Joe, Welcome aboard. Dr. B’s ideas have turned my DM around, too. Best, Jim T-2, last A1c 5.0

Response:

Joseph Lightfoot by any chance do you know Ken Greyeagle.  It is probably a ridiculous question, but someimte life is a small world.  He leaves in Washington I believe but I am not sure.  But perhaps you can communicate with him through the group.  A wonderful guy. Loretta

Response:

Joseph You done good. Congratulatons on your accomplishments.We all know how difficult it is to stay in control and youhave done it.  Pat yourself on the back and imagine all of us in a circle giving you big hugs.  I love to hear such wonderful news. Loretta

Response:

Jim, That’s an amazing A1c! I hope the word gets around about this. Especially about the fact that you can do it and not be constantly fighting hypoglycemia. Can you think of a downside to this regimen? Physiologically, I mean. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe, Welcome aboard. Dr. B’s ideas have turned my DM around, too. Best, Jim T-2, last A1c 5.0

Response:

Thanks for the encouragement, you’ve got amazing numbers as well! The insulin sure does make it more complicated but it will probably give your poor, overworked beta cells a much needed rest. The Paleolithic reference went right over my head, sorry. Joe

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Joseph! I’m a fellow lo-carber, too!  Since Oct 99. I was put on insulin a month ago when someone FINALLY agreed to test me for the antibody, which I have. Those are GREAT numbers!  I’ve gotten similar improvements.  From 12.1% down to 5.6% in 5 months.  Pretty cool eh?  Of course, everything’s gone totally haywire since starting the insulin so my next hba1c won’t be as good.  I’m currently heading towards Paleolithic and will head futher that way when budget allows (cash flow problems with new business startups, ya konw) Welcome aboard! — Type 1  since 10/99, L & R (using GentleJet) since Mar 00 HbA1c: 10/99: 12.1, 3/00: 5.6 increasingly Paleolithic "never never give up", Winston Churchill. "or find another way", wombn http://www.mindspring.com/~wombn

Response:

Joe, Physiologically, no major downside, for me. On the contrary, reducing the hyperglycemia has allowed all the organ systems which were in trouble due to the DM to heal. My lowest recorded BG was a 65 (plasma calibrated) about 3 weeks ago and I felt fine. Certainly much better than a 130 felt shortly after dx when I had been running consistantly over 200. Since my teens, I knew, on the basis of an "abnormal" GTT, that I was carbohydrate intolerant. If I ate carbs, I was ravenously hungry, warm, sleepy. I had lots of blood and urine tests over the years, none of which caused anyone to tell me that there was a problem. I had to specifically ask a new doc for various blood panels, and that I suspected Syndrome X. Too bad I was right. This is not a WOE that everyone can tolerate. An A1c of 5.0 (6.5 lab ULN) is not a level everyone can attain, and there is no need to do so. After a lot of post dx research, I decided that I would do _whatever was required_ to get my BGs down to normal all the time. Right Away-All Day-Every Day. To me that means I try to never go above 120–period. Like many, I fought DP, and had to learn how to beat it for my body. Using Dr. B’s methods, a three digit BG reading is extremely unusual for me. In the last two weeks, my lowest reading has been a 78 and the highest a 98, testing at 2x or 3x/day. I try not to proselytize the low(er) carb approach too zealously. It is certainly not for everyone. However, for those who cannot attain control any other way, and are in despair, it may be an approach which allows them some time to find other options. I think it is also good for newbies to know that control can be accomplished. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, That’s an amazing A1c! I hope the word gets around about this. Especially about the fact that you can do it and not be constantly fighting hypoglycemia. Can you think of a downside to this regimen? Physiologically, I mean. Joe Joe, Welcome aboard. Dr. B’s ideas have turned my DM around, too. Best, Jim T-2, last A1c 5.0

Response:

What’s up with everyone promoting this (except one) being on Earthlink? Just nervously skeptical… Krin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, That’s an amazing A1c! I hope the word gets around about this. Especially about the fact that you can do it and not be constantly fighting hypoglycemia. Can you think of a downside to this regimen? Physiologically, I mean. Joe Joe, Welcome aboard. Dr. B’s ideas have turned my DM around, too. Best, Jim T-2, last A1c 5.0

Response:

Jim, Thanks for the disclaimer & lighter approach to your enthusiasm.   I am not closed to the idea of a no-or-low carb diet, but I really freak out on eating eggs & sausage (which I don’t like that much & which contain a bit more salt than I’ve been told I should take in).  I have IBS (I hate the word bowel… it is off-putting).  So eating the eggs & sausage, etc., seems like I’d get da runs & toots.   Is this not a problem after acclimatization, then?  And why did my mother’s cholesterol shoot through the roof on such a diet?   I’m listening, despite my skepticism.   I’ll shush up about my doubts if they’re allayed. Krin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe, Physiologically, no major downside, for me. On the contrary, reducing the hyperglycemia has allowed all the organ systems which were in trouble due to the DM to heal. My lowest recorded BG was a 65 (plasma calibrated) about 3 weeks ago and I felt fine. Certainly much better than a 130 felt shortly after dx when I had been running consistantly over 200. Since my teens, I knew, on the basis of an "abnormal" GTT, that I was carbohydrate intolerant. If I ate carbs, I was ravenously hungry, warm, sleepy. I had lots of blood and urine tests over the years, none of which caused anyone to tell me that there was a problem. I had to specifically ask a new doc for various blood panels, and that I suspected Syndrome X. Too bad I was right. This is not a WOE that everyone can tolerate. An A1c of 5.0 (6.5 lab ULN) is not a level everyone can attain, and there is no need to do so. After a lot of post dx research, I decided that I would do _whatever was required_ to get my BGs down to normal all the time. Right Away-All Day-Every Day. To me that means I try to never go above 120–period. Like many, I fought DP, and had to learn how to beat it for my body. Using Dr. B’s methods, a three digit BG reading is extremely unusual for me. In the last two weeks, my lowest reading has been a 78 and the highest a 98, testing at 2x or 3x/day. I try not to proselytize the low(er) carb approach too zealously. It is certainly not for everyone. However, for those who cannot attain control any other way, and are in despair, it may be an approach which allows them some time to find other options. I think it is also good for newbies to know that control can be accomplished. Jim Jim, That’s an amazing A1c! I hope the word gets around about this. Especially about the fact that you can do it and not be constantly fighting hypoglycemia. Can you think of a downside to this regimen? Physiologically, I mean. Joe Joe, Welcome aboard. Dr. B’s ideas have turned my DM around, too. Best, Jim T-2, last A1c 5.0

Response:

Krin, I am certainly not a "my way is the only way" low carber. I tried the "official" diet and it didn’t work for me. It does work for some. And I will never encourage someone to try a NO-carb diet. Not only is it almost impossible, but it is totally unnecessary, and probably doomed to failure. We all know that diabetics are sensitive to carbs. There seems to be little disagreement that they are the major contributor to blood glucose. But inherent in the concept of a lower carb diet is that you will of necessity replace carbs with protein and fat. Protein is believed to place an additional burden on the kidneys. If you have compromised kidneys, then higher protein eating is PROBABLY bad. Anecdotal evidence, however, seems to indicate that taking the toxic effect of hyperglycemia away from the kidneys, and supporting the intra-glomerular pressures with an ACE or Angiotensin-II receptor blocker, CAN allow sick kidneys to heal. Fortunately, this is what happened to me. Perhaps my nephropathy at the time of dx was below some yet-to-be-discovered threshold, or perhaps there is another process at work here. I don’t think anybody knows yet. Protein certainly has a lower glycemic index than carbs. We have all been inundated for years with the "fat is bad for you, fat will make you fat" hysteria. Supposedly dietary cholesterol directly translated to serum cholesterol, then it was "maybe not", then it was "yes it does", then it became "no it doesn’t. The most recent research shows that about 80% of serum cholesterol is produced by the liver. Decreasing dietary fat consumption is met with increased hepatic cholesterol production. If you have the type of liver that likes to make cholesterol, it seems that an anti-cholesterol med, like Lipitor, is the best way to reduce the serum cholesterol. Again, in my case, my total cholesterol went from 258 to 130 on a higher fat, lower carb diet. I do take Lipitor. TGs last time around were 88, and LDL was 98. And, as a diabetic, the fact that fat has minimal impact on BG is important to me. My point is that there is still a lot we don’t know, especially about Syndrome-X Type-2 DM. I do know that I got sicker on a 60% carb diet. I do know that I got much better on my current regimen. If the blood panels ever show that what I am doing has stopped working, believe me, I will change things. I am not presumptuous enough to say that it will absolutely work for everyone. Finally, in your Mom’s case, many find that changing to a lower carb WOE is met by malaise. It seems to take a while for the body to adjust. This is similar, I think, to the malaise felt as average BGs are brought down to normal. Many even report a small increase in lipids at about the 4-6 month point. This is often followed by a dramatic drop in lipids. For those who are frustrated or despairing at their inability to get their BGs under control, the lower carb approach is an OPTION, to be exercised when nothing else seems to work. In fact, in the "Diabetics Handbook" by Biermann and Toohey, they call low(er) carbing the Diabetes Court of Last Resort. Good luck, Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim, Thanks for the disclaimer & lighter approach to your enthusiasm.   I am not closed to the idea of a no-or-low carb diet, but I really freak out on eating eggs & sausage (which I don’t like that much & which contain a bit more salt than I’ve been told I should take in).  I have IBS (I hate the word bowel… it is off-putting).  So eating the eggs & sausage, etc., seems like I’d get da runs & toots.   Is this not a problem after acclimatization, then?  And why did my mother’s cholesterol shoot through the roof on such a diet?   I’m listening, despite my skepticism.   I’ll shush up about my doubts if they’re allayed. Krin

Response:

Caroline: I took hydrocodone for a while with no results. I take percocet now for pain but only when the nerve pain is painful to the point i can’t move.  I’ve never taken Zanoflex.  Hope it works for you.  Would be interested to hear      :-) .. BTW, what is a chi machine? Donald

  Donald:   I am new here as well.  I have lurked here for a few months.  I am sure I   can’t appreciate the degree of pain your are experiencing but I also have   osteoarthritis of the spine, a buldging disk problem that I’ve had many   years and also really bad knots of muscle spasms from thorasic area to the   sacral area.   I have been to PCPs, and a neurologist at a pian clinic.   I too was on Celebrex and could not tell any difference at all.  I have been   on Soma for months, also hydrocodone, etc.  Nothing helped.  But…   This week (Monday) my doctor prescribed a new muscle relaxant Zanoflex and   it has helped tremendously.  Now, perhaps I have just gotten better because   I took a week off from work and have finally gotten some sleep but I started   the Zanoflex before I got any sleep and did feel relief.   I wonder if anyone here has tried that?  Have you tried it?   I also have started using a chi machine and that also helps somewhat.   I await what you all have to say.   Caroline

Response:

I have been to PCPs, and a neurologist at a pian clinic.

ok you know I need sleep when…. I read that as "I have been to PCPs, a numerologist, and a pain clinic." Was gonna say that that was definitely a new one. Thought we had tried everything for cures, but numerology? Aim To reply via email, make sure to remove the spam protection from my address! It should read:  aimgrrrl (at) mindspring (dot) com

Response:

I have tried Zanoflex with terrific results. However, it does make me groggy in the morning so I don’t take it every day. In fact, this reminds me I’m out!  I was having terrible problems with my back and used it till my samples ran out and forgot to tell my rheumy to write me a script! It works on spasms and was originally used for MS and other spinal cord injuries but lately drs have been having success in small doses for FMS.  I only took one half of the smallest dose. Welcome to both you and Donald! DianeW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Donald: I am new here as well.  I have lurked here for a few months.  I am sure I can’t appreciate the degree of pain your are experiencing but I also have osteoarthritis of the spine, a buldging disk problem that I’ve had many years and also really bad knots of muscle spasms from thorasic area to the sacral area. I have been to PCPs, and a neurologist at a pian clinic. I too was on Celebrex and could not tell any difference at all.  I have been on Soma for months, also hydrocodone, etc.  Nothing helped.  But… This week (Monday) my doctor prescribed a new muscle relaxant Zanoflex and it has helped tremendously.  Now, perhaps I have just gotten better because I took a week off from work and have finally gotten some sleep but I started the Zanoflex before I got any sleep and did feel relief. I wonder if anyone here has tried that?  Have you tried it? I also have started using a chi machine and that also helps somewhat. I await what you all have to say. Caroline Hi All I’ve been monitoring this site for about a week now and think it’s great. Just an intro of me and my diagnosis. I’m a 39 yo male and was diagnosed with arthritis in my spine 11 years ago when I was about to undergo surgery for a ruptured disk in my spine.  The doctor told me that by the looks of things I most likely had the arthitis since I was about 14.  The dr was a neurosurgeon and didn’t specify what kind of arthritis I had (turns out it was just diagnosed as AS). Recently, I was diagnosed with OA in my right shoulder and right knee, knee degeneration, degenerative disk disease in my lumbar and sleep apnea. I have taken Vioxx and Celebrex (currently taking Celebrex) and really find them not to be helpful. I have been to see 3 different rheumatologists and altho I am sure they are helpful to many I had no luck with them either. (When I failed to respond to Vioxx and Celebrex they acted as tho it was my fault.) Currently I am seeing a great PCP and Pain Management Doctor. Both are greatly responsive to my needs and seem to be well versed in the world of arthritis. I’m in the middle of an acute attack in my spine, which has prompted me to begin the long tedious process of applying for SS Disability.  Both my doctors are in agreement that it is the best route for me.  I really hate the term disabled, but I’m trying to just view it as another chapter in my life. Well… that’s about all of my story. I’m looking forward to joining this community.  I no longer feel like a freak (just kidding…kind of)… Donald

Response:

From Aim: FREAK! Your no freak, just "Normally Challenged"!!  ;-) But then, I could have said that about me way before I met Aurthur, hee hee…… Hehe, bumper sticker I recently saw: "Normal people are the ones you just don’t know yet." Aim

oooooowheeeee! I like that one. -kk    m

Question:

Dear All, I am 40 y/0 (m) and a T2 for 11 years now) on 10/1000 Glucovance AM and 5/500 PM. I am also on Accupril, and child’s aspirin. My control is, unfortunately, fair to poor, but I am trying to do better. I was on vacation for the last 4 days, and my control has been a little worse than normal. Yesterday, I felt some aches and pains on the left side of my body, and they didn’t dissipate like they normally do. I was hoping that it would be muscular aches but it felt more than that. I was afraid that it might be symptoms of something more serious (read heart attack/stroke), but I can’t be sure. I didn’t feel the sharp chest pains that I’ve heard associated with those, but nevertheless, I was anxious and didn’t get to sleep until very early in the morning. 2 days later, the aches and pain are still persisting. I used to suffer from "anxiety attacks" before, but have not had a bad episode for almost a year. However, I did feel very anxious when I felt the discomfort on primiary the top right half of my body. Has anyone experienced this before, and can tell me what it is? Do diabetics feel symptoms of heart attack/stroke differently? I heard tell that diabetics might not feel the sharp chest pains usually associated with the general population, so may not even know that a heart attack is coming on? Do you think these "aches and pains"are anything to be worried about, or are they just normal muscular strains. I have not felt really sharp pains thus far, touch wood. Thanks for any advice. Dano

Response:

Depending on the state of any autonomic neuropathy, diabetics may have decreased thoracic sensation. I found my Official Doogie Howser EKG, but I can’t figure out how to connect it IP-wise to you. Nobody can diagnose a heart attack over the internet. GET TO A DOCTOR NOW.

Response:

Do you think I should get to the doctor immediately? It’s not the "aches and pains" on the left side of my body is very prominent. Just sorta nagging, and sometimes almost imperceptible. I’m feeling somewhat nervous and anxious, but that could be due to my own nature … I am a "worry wart" sort of guy, and given to panic attacks in the past. I am scheduled for a complete physical next month with a certified endocrinologist. I actually called up my primary physician a while ago after reading your post. Unfortunately my normal doctor isn’t in, and I made an appointment to see someone else. Please advise. Dano – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Depending on the state of any autonomic neuropathy, diabetics may have decreased thoracic sensation. I found my Official Doogie Howser EKG, but I can’t figure out how to connect it IP-wise to you. Nobody can diagnose a heart attack over the internet. GET TO A DOCTOR NOW.

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You didn’t say how long until the current doctor’s appointment is to occur???  (but I am very glad you made the call!!).  It’s your own judgment whether you need Urgent Care–or to go and sit in the doctor’s office until they see you. I agree your questions need a physician’s interpretation, perhaps further tests. Not just diabetics, but women in particular (and maybe some men) have non-characteristic heart pain which may indicate an insufficiency in the blood to the heart muscles. My sister has been diabetic for 20 years.  For about 3 months last summer and fall she had occasional shoulder pains, and especially a sharp pain in her left thumb.  It was only when she started feeling shortness of breath that she went to her physician, got the referral to a cardiologist, and after a week’s wait, got tested.  The first test was an injection of something in her right upper arm.  When the she told him the pain had hit her thumb, the doctor told her:  "My dear, that is heart pain".  She was hospitalized that night, had angiogram the next day (tube in the groin to the heart, dye injected and heart scanned for blood flow to the heart muscles), and was diagnosed with 3 blockages.  She went home the next day, (Saturday), and was scheduled for bypass surgery on the Monday after the same weekend Dec. 10 (I think).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you think I should get to the doctor immediately? It’s not the "aches and pains" on the left side of my body is very prominent. Just sorta nagging, and sometimes almost imperceptible. I’m feeling somewhat nervous and anxious, but that could be due to my own nature … I am a "worry wart" sort of guy, and given to panic attacks in the past. I am scheduled for a complete physical next month with a certified endocrinologist. I actually called up my primary physician a while ago after reading your post. Unfortunately my normal doctor isn’t in, and I made an appointment to see someone else. Please advise. Dano Depending on the state of any autonomic neuropathy, diabetics may have decreased thoracic sensation. I found my Official Doogie Howser EKG, but I can’t figure out how to connect it IP-wise to you. Nobody can diagnose a heart attack over the internet. GET TO A DOCTOR NOW.

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Do you think I should get to the doctor immediately?

YES !! — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear All, I am 40 y/0 (m) and a T2 for 11 years now) on 10/1000 Glucovance AM and 5/500 PM. I am also on Accupril, and child’s aspirin. My control is, unfortunately, fair to poor, but I am trying to do better. I was on vacation for the last 4 days, and my control has been a little worse than normal. Yesterday, I felt some aches and pains on the left side of my body, and they didn’t dissipate like they normally do. I was hoping that it would be muscular aches but it felt more than that. I was afraid that it might be symptoms of something more serious (read heart attack/stroke), but I can’t be sure. I didn’t feel the sharp chest pains that I’ve heard associated with those, but nevertheless, I was anxious and didn’t get to sleep until very early in the morning. 2 days later, the aches and pain are still persisting. I used to suffer from "anxiety attacks" before, but have not had a bad episode for almost a year. However, I did feel very anxious when I felt the discomfort on primiary the top right half of my body. Has anyone experienced this before, and can tell me what it is? Do diabetics feel symptoms of heart attack/stroke differently? I heard tell that diabetics might not feel the sharp chest pains usually associated with the general population, so may not even know that a heart attack is coming on? Do you think these "aches and pains"are anything to be worried about, or are they just normal muscular strains. I have not felt really sharp pains thus far, touch wood. Thanks for any advice.

Please see your Dr.  That could be serious, or it might not be.  I don’t know why you think diabetics don’t feel pain like other people.  It is true if a diabetic has neuropathy, then he/she might not feel pain in the affected parts.  But that’s a different story.  At any rate, nobody could diagnose you on symptoms alone.  See your Dr. and find out what it is. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

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i take humulin 70/30 60 units a day plus glucophage, and indural and zestril for blood pressure. one night in february i developed indigestion from hell. since i had had some nurses training and knew cpr, i knew i was having a heart attack. i did NOT have chest pains untill just before the emt’s arrived. i even stood outside and directed them to my house. i flat lined, went bye bye for awhile and had to be de – fibbed, then had a stent put in the next day. but if i didn’t know the signs of a heart attack, what could have happened? diabetics tend to have such nerve damage pluse joint deterioration, etc. that aches and pains are "masked" sometimes. do yourself a favor and ask your doc about the warning signs of heart attacks. it saved my life. good luck. toejelly <posting from bev’s account Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

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Dear All, I have not been see the doctor yet, and I thank all of you for your wonderful advice. I guess I took a big risk with that one. The aches and pains I’m feeling are not the sharp ones, I think, associated with heart attacks, for instance. They are kind of "in the background", and I don’t whether my naturally "anxious and worried" self made it out to be more than what it is. Now having read about Baycol, although I take Lipitor, I wonder if the "statins" had something to do with it. Nevertheless, I am very well aware that I have a serious condition, of course, T2 for 11years, and having fair to poor control, I have scheduled myself a complete physical with the doctor middle of next month. Thanks again, all. Dano – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i take humulin 70/30 60 units a day plus glucophage, and indural and zestril for blood pressure. one night in february i developed indigestion from hell. since i had had some nurses training and knew cpr, i knew i was having a heart attack. i did NOT have chest pains untill just before the emt’s arrived. i even stood outside and directed them to my house. i flat lined, went bye bye for awhile and had to be de – fibbed, then had a stent put in the next day. but if i didn’t know the signs of a heart attack, what could have happened? diabetics tend to have such nerve damage pluse joint deterioration, etc. that aches and pains are "masked" sometimes. do yourself a favor and ask your doc about the warning signs of heart attacks. it saved my life. good luck. toejelly <posting from bev’s account Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

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Dear All, I have not been see the doctor yet, and I thank all of you for your wonderful advice. I guess I took a big risk with that one. The aches and pains I’m feeling are not the sharp ones, I think, associated with heart attacks, for instance.

that’s the whole point…. you DON’T necessarily get sharp pains with a — k t1 14 yr They are kind of "in the background", and – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I don’t whether my naturally "anxious and worried" self made it out to be more than what it is. Now having read about Baycol, although I take Lipitor, I wonder if the "statins" had something to do with it. Nevertheless, I am very well aware that I have a serious condition, of course, T2 for 11years, and having fair to poor control, I have scheduled myself a complete physical with the doctor middle of next month. Thanks again, all. Dano

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Do you think I should get to the doctor immediately? YES !!

Update on why I did not follow my own advice above: I ignored chest pain for over a week, because there were other symptoms (or lack thereof) that made me think it was not heart problems. Then I ignored it for another week because I was visiting my grandmother who has cancer _and_ heart problems and I didn’t want to worry her.  (plus the reason above) When I returned, I went to the VA hospital where they did NO TESTS AT ALL (not even listen to the heart) except, first, an antacid which they insisted I take even though I told them I’d had "that kind" of chest pain and "this one" is different.  When that had no effect, they gave me an anti-anxiety medicine. When that also had no effect, they said "well, it’s not cardiac," handed me ten more of the same pills (with no dosage info on it) and sent me away. I did not take the pills, but the next day (after nearly three weeks!) the pain was gone–but that evening the other "missing" symptoms showed up.  And while discussing it with an EMT who happened to be nearby, the pain returned.  Off to the hospital with me!! However, they found NO heart problems.  The cardiologist said it couldn’t be caused by any of the things I guessed at, but both my diabetic educator and my family doctor mentioned "diabetic chest wall pain."  Which I never heard of, but I’m trying to find out about, because it hurts to the point of interfering with life’s various activities. — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

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… both my diabetic educator and my family doctor mentioned "diabetic chest wall pain."  Which I never heard of, but I’m trying to find out about, because it hurts to the point of interfering with life’s various activities.

I’ve never had any heart problems that I know of.  However, one time I was diagnosed with "chest wall pain".  I did not know that it is specific to diabetes, but it _was_ quite painful.  After a few days it went away and has never come back.  This was after I was diagnosed with diabetes and was while I was doing some body boarding on vacation in Mexico.   It wasn’t as a result of a blow to my chest or anything like that — it just started hurting, then went away a few days later. Perhaps it was this (costochondritis): http://health.yahoo.com/health/diseases_and_conditions/disease_feed_d… ondritis Cheers, Steve — "The greatest enemy of communication is the illusion of it." – Pierre Martineau

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It wasn’t as a result of a blow to my chest or anything like that — it just started hurting, then went away a few days later. Perhaps it was this (costochondritis): http://health.yahoo.com/health/diseases_and_conditions/disease_feed_d…

Thanks for the link.  Mine also started for no apparent reason, was nearly constant (but not completely) for three weeks, and then became about half the time.  One of the things they did in the hospital involved treadmill EKG, during which the pain went away!  This was confirmed last night when I got my pulse over 100 by lawn mowing.  So exercise brings fast, temporary relief! (Which OTC meds did not) HOWEVER,  to whom it may concern,  please DO NOT use my experience as an excuse to avoid immediate attention for chest pain.  If there’s even a slight chance it could be cardiac, you should have SOMEONE ELSE drive you to a doctor or hospital. — Wes Groleau http://freepages.rootsweb.com/~wgroleau

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HOWEVER,  to whom it may concern,  please DO NOT use my experience

as an excuse to avoid immediate attention for chest pain.  If there’s even a slight chance it could be cardiac, you should have SOMEONE ELSE drive you to a doctor or hospital. —

And (especially) if you’re female, also be prepared to be told that it’s just emotional upset or all in your head or something, and be ready to insist they take you seriously. bj

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due to the fact that diabetes results in a general decline in health, we have alot of odd aches and pains. as i have  said before, my indigestion from hell resulted in being de – fibbed, having some extremely fast ambulance rides, and having a stent installed. i, however, DID know the symptoms of a real heart attack. most people don’t. i advise people to get a list of signs from their doctor or the american heart association and learn them by….heart….

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And (especially) if you’re female, also be prepared to be told that it’s just emotional upset or all in your head or something, and be ready to insist they take you seriously.

Despite the fact that I’m male, I’ve also experienced something similar: I think the triage nurse in emergency was convinced I was having an anxiety attack, when really I was in DKA!   Between breaths I was attempting to tell her that I’d just been diagnosed with diabetes.  She was doing her best to comfort me.  It’s alright sir, just relax…  I was so frustrated (and scared) that I was almost in tears…   Sometimes I wonder… Steve — "The greatest enemy of communication is the illusion of it." – Pierre Martineau

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"Steven Besler"  wrote … I think the triage nurse in emergency was convinced I was having an

anxiety attack, when really I was in DKA!   Between breaths I was attempting to tell her that I’d just been diagnosed with diabetes. She was doing her best to comfort me.  It’s alright sir, just relax… I was so frustrated (and scared) that I was almost in tears… This is when one of those medic alert bracelets/necklaces would be handy — just wave it in her face. I know, you’d just been diagnosed, but for next time….. Anyway, I’m glad you survived the experience, and I hope the nurse learned something! bj

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Question:

I didn’t think I was a Newbie when I first joined this group. Boy, was I wrong. So much has changed since I was first dxd. I have been on a steep learning curve since coming here and have been applying the things I am learning. When I joined my fasting bgl was averaging about 8.9 mmol (160) Some of my post-prandials went as high as 13.4 mmol (241) Despite all my efforts I couldn’t get them any lower. Now my fasting bgl is av 6.4 mmol (115) and pprands av 8.4mmol (151) this week. I am very pleased with these figures, and hope to improve on them. I can’t remember when I joined, but it was some time in October, so I think that’s a big change in a little over a month. I am convinced none of this would have happened without your help! A big BIG thankyou to all those who have re-educated me, and encouraged me to keep going. Oh and a GOOD side effect – I’ve lost about 14lbs without even noticing! And had a lot of laughs along the way. Now I just want to keep going till I am satisfied things are as they should be. I am looking forward to my next blood tests next year – the doctor will be surprised (I hope!). Annette. ( An old dog(bitch?) learning new tricks).

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Oh and a GOOD side effect – I’ve lost about 14lbs without even

noticing! And had a lot of laughs along the way. And you can laugh all the way to the store sales for new duds while your friends are still trying to cope with their New Year’s Resolutions! bj

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I didn’t think I was a Newbie when I first joined this group. Boy, was I wrong. So much has changed since I was first dxd. I have been on a steep learning curve since coming here and have been applying the things I am learning. When I joined my fasting bgl was averaging about 8.9 mmol (160) Some of my post-prandials went as high as 13.4 mmol (241) Despite all my efforts I couldn’t get them any lower. Now my fasting bgl is av 6.4 mmol (115) and pprands av 8.4mmol (151) this week. snipsnip Annette. ( An old dog(bitch?) learning new tricks).

Without this group, I’d probably have been satisfied with much higher numbers, I’m sure my doc would have been. It’s great to see others come down and it helps keep us all on course! Janet El, Type 2 dx 11/00 Glucophage 1250, diet, exercise

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t think I was a Newbie when I first joined this group. Boy, was I wrong. So much has changed since I was first dxd. I have been on a steep learning curve since coming here and have been applying the things I am learning. When I joined my fasting bgl was averaging about 8.9 mmol (160) Some of my post-prandials went as high as 13.4 mmol (241) Despite all my efforts I couldn’t get them any lower. Now my fasting bgl is av 6.4 mmol (115) and pprands av 8.4mmol (151) this week. I am very pleased with these figures, and hope to improve on them. I can’t remember when I joined, but it was some time in October, so I think that’s a big change in a little over a month. I am convinced none of this would have happened without your help!

A big, huge A-MEN! to that, Annette! I was diagnosed nearly 5 years ago, and found my way here over a year & a half ago.  My best A1c before this NG was about 8.5.  Since then, I’ve managed to squirm my way (briefly) into the 5% club, and hovering now in the mid 6s. I was seeing a GP only, who (can you believe!) when confronted said I was a T1 because the current treatment was insulin only. (Having failed to control on Glucophage or Amaryl.)  Not that I was controlling on the damned insulin only, either.  No referrals to dieticians, no advice on changing my eating habits… just "take these pills" and "shoot this much insulin". From reading here, I demanded a referral to an endo and fired his butt.  Now am taking Avandia & insulin, working on reducing the amount of insulin. The GP identified the beginnings of kidney problems and (correctly) put me on Altace, but not a sufficient dose, nor did he say anything about the proteins problem.  If I had stayed with him and not found ASD & MHD, I am convinced I was well on my way to kidney failure and other complications, and probable death within 15 years. (I’m only 33!)  Now, I’m happily planning towards my daughter’s graduation, wedding & grandchildren (she is only 5). Kudos, big thank yous, and <<<HUGS to everybody in this NG who reaches out & helps others. — Kelly T2, daily regime: 25u NPH at bedtime, varying H with dinner, Avandia 4mg 2x, Altace 2.5mg, Wellbutrin 150mg 2x, now added 10mg Liptor  :-( ICQ #85063563 I have six locks on my door, all in a row.  When I go out, I lock every other one.  I figure no matter how long somebody stands there picking the locks, they are always locking three of them. To reply, send to mynick (at) quickclic (dot) com

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Opal said… Kelly T2, daily regime: 25u NPH at bedtime, varying H with dinner, Avandia 4mg 2x, Altace 2.5mg, Wellbutrin 150mg 2x, now added 10mg Liptor  :-(

Lipitor ? I went on that and my fats dropped like a stone! From being too high they went to well in range within two weeks of starting it. So it’s lipitor Ratty — Type 2 since 93 Done the tablets, now it’s Humalog Mix 25/75

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Oh and a GOOD side effect – I’ve lost about 14lbs without even noticing! And had a lot of laughs along the way.

Way to go Annette! Of course laughter IS the best medicine – lol.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Opal said… Kelly T2, daily regime: 25u NPH at bedtime, varying H with dinner, Avandia 4mg 2x, Altace 2.5mg, Wellbutrin 150mg 2x, now added 10mg Liptor  :-( Lipitor ? I went on that and my fats dropped like a stone! From being too high they went to well in range within two weeks of starting it. So it’s lipitor

No, t’ain’t the Lipitor that is the   Its the fact that I’m on yet ANOTHER damned pill.  *sigh*  At my age (33), I should be worrying about my daughter’s kindergarten grades, not how many pills I’ve popped, and when I need to take my next ones.  *sigh* — Kelly T2, daily regime: 25u NPH at bedtime, varying H with dinner, Avandia 4mg 2x, Altace 2.5mg, Wellbutrin 150mg 2x, now added 10mg Liptor  :-( ICQ #85063563 Never raise your hands to your kids.  It leaves your groin unprotected. To reply, send to mynick (at) quickclic (dot) com

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Opal said… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Opal said… Kelly T2, daily regime: 25u NPH at bedtime, varying H with dinner, Avandia 4mg 2x, Altace 2.5mg, Wellbutrin 150mg 2x, now added 10mg Liptor  :-( Lipitor ? I went on that and my fats dropped like a stone! From being too high they went to well in range within two weeks of starting it. So it’s lipitor No, t’ain’t the Lipitor that is the   Its the fact that I’m on yet ANOTHER damned pill.  *sigh*  At my age (33), I should be worrying about my daughter’s kindergarten grades, not how many pills I’ve popped, and when I need to take my next ones.  *sigh* — Kelly

There are worse to take. Lipitor is one tiny little rugby ball once a day; no nasty effects for me and totally forgettable. metformin was a different story….but we don’t want to go there! The way I work it is…neutral pills I do at breakfast. Anything that makes me feel yucky is later. I have to do about ten a day plus the Humalog Mix so it’s a bit of an art. Ratty — Type 2 since 93 Done the tablets, now it’s Humalog Mix 25/75

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No, t’ain’t the Lipitor that is the   Its the fact that I’m on yet ANOTHER damned pill.  *sigh*  At my age (33), I should be worrying about my daughter’s kindergarten grades, not how many pills I’ve popped, and when I need to take my next ones.  *sigh*

Opal… I understand, some days it’s hard to "swallow".  I’m only 42 and have a bunch of pills too. BUT, because of those pills, you’ll be able to worry about your daughter’s daughter’s kindergarten grades!  Most of these drugs weren’t even around when we were in kindergarten.  I’m quite thankful for them.  Most days ; ) Jennifer

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Annette you did the work and you deserve the accolades  If we have helped you in any way , that makes me happy,  that is our mission to help those that need information and support.  I did think you were a newbie when you came here.  I am surprised that you werent.  But as long as you are on the right track now, that is all that matters. Congratulations America will stand strong and always be the home of the brave and the land of the free..

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Its amazing how a little more knowledge can change everything… And I’ve been here for 3 years now and I still learn from this group! Always new info coming out!  Keep up the good work! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t think I was a Newbie when I first joined this group. Boy, was I wrong. So much has changed since I was first dxd. I have been on a steep learning curve since coming here and have been applying the things I am learning. When I joined my fasting bgl was averaging about 8.9 mmol (160) Some of my post-prandials went as high as 13.4 mmol (241) Despite all my efforts I couldn’t get them any lower. Now my fasting bgl is av 6.4 mmol (115) and pprands av 8.4mmol (151) this week. I am very pleased with these figures, and hope to improve on them. I can’t remember when I joined, but it was some time in October, so I think that’s a big change in a little over a month. I am convinced none of this would have happened without your help! A big BIG thankyou to all those who have re-educated me, and encouraged me to keep going. Oh and a GOOD side effect – I’ve lost about 14lbs without even noticing! And had a lot of laughs along the way. Now I just want to keep going till I am satisfied things are as they should be. I am looking forward to my next blood tests next year – the doctor will be surprised (I hope!). Annette. ( An old dog(bitch?) learning new tricks).

Type 2, diag. 3/98, glucophage, diet, exercise, born ‘47 Another Soggy Seattle Syso

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