Question:
Well that is good because a business should check first with their client and pretty much give the customer a detailed list of charges. That is just good business practice. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – at I work for a phone company, and I guarantee you that we would check first, if we had two card numbers, before we posted a payment to either. Granted we are small and have a luxury larger companies would not have. I cannot believe this vet practice is so huge that they could not follow this same practice. I know you do not legally have a recourse on this point since you did give the card number, however, you are correct in saying that it would be good business sense to notate something like this and check with the client. karen
Response:
I am so sorry to hear about your experience. I would definitely pursue it. I think this vet is being extremely aggressive and very unsympathetic. I would make a point of contacting the television show that he regulary appears on to explain to them this gentleman has no bedside manner. I find his letter to demonstrate characteristics of someone who is condescending and verbally abusive. I’m sorry George spent any time with this turkey. My thought are with you, I urge you to report him to the American Veterinary Association, and I would provide them with a copy of the letter he sent you. My thought are with you. Sharon
Response:
Just a few thoughts here and please just take this as my opinion. As someone who works for a vet clinic, I’m probably coming from a different viewpoint. I don’t wish to start any flames. For one, very few animal hospitals are staffed full time. The fact that they even had an assistant there after hours is unusual. Most places have signs in the waiting room or treatment areas that clearly state this. One should always assume that the clinic is not staffed after hours rather than the opposite. My clinic is different because one of the vets actually lives there, but again this is highly unusual. The vet did the responsible thing by suggesting you take the cat to a different clinic. We would do the same if the live in doctor wasn’t home and a pet needed urgent care we couldn’t provide. The letter was absolutely right than even humans are commonly transferred in the event the first hospital is unable to care for them. It is the only right choice to make. Also, I am confused by your statement that you don’t like ER care. Are you suggesting that very sick pets should usually be PTS rather than treated? Finally, I think you need to try to consider this from the vet’s point of view. A patient isn’t only a medical case to a vet or doctor. They invest time, effort, and spirit into trying to save them. It sounds like the vet did the best he could and that the cat was doing more poorly than expected but not really on the verge of death. He did the responsible (and only) thing he could do by requesting the cat be transferred to a clinic better able to care for the animal. You choose to have the cat PTS. Now, that is your choice and since I don’t know the condition George was in or his chances from your post, I won’t say if it was right or wrong. But to a vet that has done his best and cared about the patient, the loss can be almost as bad as for the owner, especially if he believes it was wrongly ordered, mistakenly or not. I can understand where his anger is coming from, especially if you than attacked him for it and suggested you had no choice in what you did. You always had a choice. You choose to do the surgery. If you mentioned PTS or not or they did, you knew the option existed. There are two sides to every story. Sometimes when a vet has done all he or she can to help a pet, he or she becomes very emotionally entangled in the case. While his response was out of line and shouldn’t have been worded in that way, I can see where he’s coming from. As for the card use…that’s a different matter all together and does sound like something was done wrong there. Sethran
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Finally, I think you need to try to consider this from the vet’s point of view. A patient isn’t only a medical case to a vet or doctor. They invest time, effort, and spirit into trying to save them. It sounds like the vet did the best he could and that the cat was doing more poorly than expected but not really on the verge of death. He did the responsible (and only) thing he could do by requesting the cat be transferred to a clinic better able to care for the animal. You choose to have the cat PTS. Now, that is your choice and since I don’t know the condition George was in or his chances from your post, I won’t say if it was right or wrong. But to a vet that has done his best and cared about the patient, the loss can be almost as bad as for the owner, especially if he believes it was wrongly ordered, mistakenly or not. I can understand where his anger is coming from, especially if you than attacked him for it and suggested you had no choice in what you did. You always had a choice. You choose to do the surgery. If you mentioned PTS or not or they did, you knew the option existed. There are two sides to every story. Sometimes when a vet has done all he or she can to help a pet, he or she becomes very emotionally entangled in the case. While his response was out of line and shouldn’t have been worded in that way, I can see where he’s coming from. As for the card use…that’s a different matter all together and does sound like something was done wrong there. Sethran
Since Sethran has done such a good job of saying the things I was going to, I am only going to add on a little bit more. I find the sentence "Unfortunately Dr. Katz wound up at the hospital herself with a personal crisis that night." significant. The way I read that, the vet was in the (human) hospital with a medical emergency. If that’s the case, then the vet writing the letter may be less sympathetic than normal because they have a sick colleague to deal with, as well as your complaint. Finally, I want to use this chance to emphasize to everyone that you need to fight for whatever level of care you want. If you want to treat aggressively, make sure that the doc knows that, and takes appropriate action. If you want to only do palliative care, make sure you tell people that and stick up for your decision. Rebecca
Response:
I am not siding with anyone here. I just think for future reference you might choose one card for emergencies. What he did may have been sneaky but I think the fact here is that you did (and you stated this) give them your debit card number. I would have given them your credit card number. I am guessing here that you had a visa debit or something which is not really the same as an actual credit card. It may look like a credit card but it does take it directly out of your checking account. If it was a regular debit then I don’t really see how they could have your pin number unless you gave it to them which is never recommended as this poses a huge security risk. I think when tragedy happens there are always lessons to be learned somewhere. I think on your side you got what appears to be a bad doctor but financially the lesson here for you is never use two seperate cards especially if you are unable to pay the bill. Sticking to one card and using it for all the emergencies would have been better in this case especially when you said you had to pay your rent. Also not to defend the doctor who may have done a poor job here, according to what you posted you did in a way give them authorization (even though they should have asked for an ok a second time and let you know what they were charging). I think from what I gathered here was they may have assumed you authorized the payment by putting a card or in this case both cards down. Yes, the doctor appears to be a bit cold in his response and you have a right to be mad in this whole situation. Like I said you have my sympathies and I hope your cat had a good life. I think when you can collect yourself then it is time to handle the legal battle. Good luck. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My point is, compassion aside, good business practice would lead one to submit a bill even if it’s certain to be rejected. What he did was sneaky. He had two credit card numbers; even if no one remembered which I had asked to use he could have confirmed with me. By writing if necessary. On the phone today, his assistant agreed to cancel the charge and I took her at her word until I got the quoted letter. I use my debit card for anything I can pay for immediately. Understandably the clinic wanted a credit card down on my agreement to the surgery, so I gave them a different card and said, "Please don’t use the card I gave you today for the surgery payment." Am I a schmuck? Dr. Raclyn finding ways to point it out to me.
Response:
Thank you for your very kind reply. I am very sorry to hear of your trouble, and I hope you have a beautiful if painful experience with his or her final stage. That’s all I expected from the experts but it appears I have a completely different notion of what their role is. I realize that I am not making myself clear on euthanasia, either to you or to the vet, although I thought I was very clear with him.
Trust me hon, I am not making excuses for the surgeon or the referral. Seriously. And I am not "pretending" to understand what you are going through. My only point in replying was that I understand emotion and that you are filled with it and you have that right. It doesn’t mean I understand "experts". On the contrary. But I guess I misunderstood your posting. Are you saying you wanted George euthanized and they didn’t comply? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I said goodbye to George the day before I took him in (in fact I was advised to). I am at peace with George, my memory of him, what I tried to do to help him, what I did. I was the entire way, as soon as I committed to the ultra-sound. I knew that eventually I would have to put George to sleep and I preferred he die with me than with strangers. I knew things would never be the same with him. I also knew that I would be a much better bulwark to my next kitty’s health and long life no matter how this turned out. I’m not a great fan of emergency medicine. In the final analysis, I believe more cats are PTS by loving owners than die on the operating table or at home "naturally." This has to be built-in to a vet’s "business," not to mention their art. But what I’m getting from him is plausable deniability. It doesn’t make me angry, it makes me curious if the entire network of professional veterinary organizations are willing to condone this as acceptable practice. I was not looking for a cure. I was looking for dignity. He knew that and he blew it. I don’t want revenge, I want to burst his bubble of ethical competency. I may at the end of the day have to pay the bill as he sees it. But my coping with George’s death and my indignation at our treatment are now two different things. I stick to my point: since they could not offer much assurance or on the spot treatment for what was obviously a serious condition, then why did they take the choice of euthanasia away from me until I had travelled in panic somewhere else to start all over again with George in my lap. Moving on: How long has your kitty been in the hospital?
He’s home now. He was in for a day and spent the night. They wanted to keep him another day but the oncologist was going on vacation so I felt since I could be home I could care for him as well as the techs. He was happier in my bed rather than a cage. I hardly slept watching him. If you’re not happy, and you’re committed, I think you should find a vet who is associated with several hospitals and get her/his advice about what to do next.
I’m committed. I only just found out the vet is an intern (no offence to any of you interns out there) I think the surgeon was probably great but she wasn’t available and I was dealing with her through her mutual self-interest with Dr. Raclyn, rather than directly. You need someone who will be accountable to you not her employer. Who is willing to get your cat out of where he/she is safely and watch her closely once she needs to be admitted elsewhere, if she does. Take possession of her records now, if you haven’t already.
Several of my friends have only just told me the same thing. (to get copies of the records since it was a referral) Don’t wait until the last moment to find out what the doctors really think. Above all, don’t rely on their specialist, find anybody qualified who will support your goals. I don’t think working for a salary in the hospitals helps them realize what you want if they don’t know you.
*confused* Do a search for holistic vets and narrow it down to your area. Most of them I’ve found have DVMs also and have practiced for a number of years in conventional settings. They usually associate themselves with hospitals but they get paid by the client. Kind of like a real people specialist (I know, they’re super versions of this arrogance I’ve encountered). Also please read about cures, palliation, whatever
I always thought that was the vet’s job. I try to find out as much as I can though. coming from within the patient and not from without by dramatic urgent means. If you and your pet can back away from emergency mode and buy yourself any amount of time, you can regain control and have a great experience, albeit a terribly sad and painful one.
*confused again* I don’t believe animals contemplate their own death, and it’s a blessing for them and for us. They do know that for as long as they have life they love you. And we should appreciate it deep down no matter how the plot plays out. I learned a lot about love from Georgie in the past two weeks and I’m not done loving yet.
Agreed. Pets do teach unconditional love. George’s spirit and his love will live on with you. Best wishes with exposing that schister vet. Watta low life. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah the reply seems pretty fierce from the doctor but sometimes when the customer thinks they are wrong, like the customer service you get with the phone company they back each other up. There is one part of this that I don’t understand. You say this doctor billed you or put through an estimate on a debit card you asked not to be used and therefore your rent check will bounce? How can you be mad about that unless you gave them the card number? From that standpoint I can see where you might not have the right to be mad. The only way a debit card can be used is if they first have the number. I am sorry for your loss but I am a bit confused here. My point is, compassion aside, good business practice would lead one to submit a bill even if it’s certain to be rejected. What he did was sneaky. He had two credit card numbers; even if no one remembered which I had asked to use he could have confirmed with me. By writing if necessary. On the phone today, his assistant agreed to cancel the charge and I took her at her word until I got the quoted letter. I use my debit card for anything I can pay for immediately. Understandably the clinic wanted a credit card down on my agreement to the surgery, so I gave them a different card and said, "Please don’t use the card I gave you today for the surgery payment." Am I a schmuck? Dr. Raclyn finding ways to point it out to me.
I work for a phone company, and I guarantee you that we would check first, if we had two card numbers, before we posted a payment to either. Granted we are small and have a luxury larger companies would not have. I cannot believe this vet practice is so huge that they could not follow this same practice. I know you do not legally have a recourse on this point since you did give the card number, however, you are correct in saying that it would be good business sense to notate something like this and check with the client. karen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else. You know, in looking at this whole thing again, I think this is the part that most bothers me. Indeed, *I* would have believed that my cat was *currently* in that facility. What on earth did they mean here? I mean, it’s the place they performed the surgery. I would be very interested to hear other vets opinion on this particular point. Perhaps we lay people are simply too ignorant? That is exactly the point of my post. Hospital-owner vets or their salaried employees will not answer highly relevant questions unless you think to ask themf, even if they know you’ll need to know the answer if anything goes against plan. Had I been told "if the worst happens, you’re on your own," would I have gone ahead with the surgery there? I could have cut out the middle-man and done what I eventually did without subjecting either of us to torture in the name of medical mercy. When I said I wanted to keep him at home, Raclyn said "You don’t want him to go like that." By the way his slogan is "We treat your pets as if they were our own." It’s like a game they’re playing, hoping everybody gets lucky. Until it’s too late. It might not have been too late for Dr. Raclyn and his move ‘em crosstown if they get sicker policy, but it was for me. How dare he tell me George’s euthanasia is on me? Of course, it is and always will be. I never asked for their advice on euthanasia, how ridiculous. They’re not in the business of saying, "medicine can no more for your pet, I will pray you come to the right decision." I’m stupid but I’m not naive. Nobody told me what to do. No, they just put a psychic gun to my head, until I said enough, this is about George and me. Butt out. Then he says, "I told you it was risky, but he wasn’t dead yet. You want him dead, that’s your lookout. I only do PTS during office hours."
It does seem like they were playing on your already high stress level and playing a little "hidey-guessy". I would say on this alone you have a valid reason to at least file a complaint. Perhaps nothing will come of it, but it should at least be addressed. Karen
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else. You know, in looking at this whole thing again, I think this is the part that most bothers me. Indeed, *I* would have believed that my cat was *currently* in that facility. What on earth did they mean here? I mean, it’s the place they performed the surgery. I would be very interested to hear other vets opinion on this particular point. Perhaps we lay people are simply too ignorant?
That is exactly the point of my post. Hospital-owner vets or their salaried employees will not answer highly relevant questions unless you think to ask themf, even if they know you’ll need to know the answer if anything goes against plan. Had I been told "if the worst happens, you’re on your own," would I have gone ahead with the surgery there? I could have cut out the middle-man and done what I eventually did without subjecting either of us to torture in the name of medical mercy. When I said I wanted to keep him at home, Raclyn said "You don’t want him to go like that." By the way his slogan is "We treat your pets as if they were our own." It’s like a game they’re playing, hoping everybody gets lucky. Until it’s too late. It might not have been too late for Dr. Raclyn and his move ‘em crosstown if they get sicker policy, but it was for me. How dare he tell me George’s euthanasia is on me? Of course, it is and always will be. I never asked for their advice on euthanasia, how ridiculous. They’re not in the business of saying, "medicine can no more for your pet, I will pray you come to the right decision." I’m stupid but I’m not naive. Nobody told me what to do. No, they just put a psychic gun to my head, until I said enough, this is about George and me. Butt out. Then he says, "I told you it was risky, but he wasn’t dead yet. You want him dead, that’s your lookout. I only do PTS during office hours."
Response:
Yeah the reply seems pretty fierce from the doctor but sometimes when the customer thinks they are wrong, like the customer service you get with the phone company they back each other up. There is one part of this that I don’t understand. You say this doctor billed you or put through an estimate on a debit card you asked not to be used and therefore your rent check will bounce? How can you be mad about that unless you gave them the card number? From that standpoint I can see where you might not have the right to be mad. The only way a debit card can be used is if they first have the number. I am sorry for your loss but I am a bit confused here.
My point is, compassion aside, good business practice would lead one to submit a bill even if it’s certain to be rejected. What he did was sneaky. He had two credit card numbers; even if no one remembered which I had asked to use he could have confirmed with me. By writing if necessary. On the phone today, his assistant agreed to cancel the charge and I took her at her word until I got the quoted letter. I use my debit card for anything I can pay for immediately. Understandably the clinic wanted a credit card down on my agreement to the surgery, so I gave them a different card and said, "Please don’t use the card I gave you today for the surgery payment." Am I a schmuck? Dr. Raclyn finding ways to point it out to me.
Response:
Well from the poster’s point of view that letter was a little cold. Reminds me of my cell phone and cable company. When you complain they back each other up in customer service and then blame the customer for the problem. I had that problem today with my cell carrier. I went over my minutes due to dropped calls and when I complained about the service I received they claimed I never contacted them about it and they showed no record of dropped calls or me calling back. Sounds to me like the vet is putting the poster through the same kind of deal. — The station that has cats meowing for more. Cat Galaxy- The Internet radio station for cats. Meow meow meow!! http://members.cox.net/catprotector/station Real Player, Winamp and Windows Media Player http://www.live365.com/play/231353 The forum for felines everywhere. Join the Cat Galaxy Forum today! Meow! http://communities.msn.com/CatGalaxy
Actually I would be very interested in hearing the surgeons response to this. I would also be interested in knowing the names of other doctors and hospitals involved-I am a former NY Vet Tech and have since moved to Nevada. Just thought maybe I may know those involved. You can Email me privately if you like.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please find and stay with a vet who knows you and your pet, whom you can really trust. Don’t let what happened to me happen to you. ——- 6/18/02 My ~11 year old DLH George is taken to our usual vet with a severely bloated stomach, belatedly discovered weight loss, and malaise. A CBC, T4, and X-Ray are taken along with a sample of the abdominal fluid. The results are inconclusive. The vet I trust is out on maternity leave and I don’t know anybody at this facility anymore, and they don’t know me and George. 6/21/02 George undergoes an ultra-sound at the same facility. The diagnosis is greatly enlarged spleen and mast cell involvement. The ultra-sound cannot determine if the cancer is malignant. The recommendation is surgery followed by chemo if a biopsy of the spleen and liver indicate metastasis. Yet another vet tells me this, since the first lady is not on that day, and the ultra-sound internal medicine specialist comes in as needed and does not talk to clients directly. I freak and start to research spleen cancer. So far George is not nearly as obviously sick as my other cats have been in the final stages of cancer, for which they were never operated on or drugged. We had a couple of months to say good bye to them and then we brought them in on the day it became obvious they had turned for the very worst. George’s fate will be far different. 6/26/05 I go to see Philip Raclyn at the Riverside Veterinary Group, which does business as the Veterinary *Hospital* of New York. Dr. Raclyn’s website at www.holisticvets.com offers the best in conventional and alternative treatments, and I wanted a second opinion on the surgery. I was hoping to avoid it or at least chemo. Dr. Raclyn strongly urged me to have the surgery performed at his facility immediately. I was crushed but we admitted George the next day for rest and nourishment. 6/28 The RVG’s surgeon, who is not a staff member but comes in as needed, calls to discuss George’s condition with me previous to the actual surgery. She mentions that, especially in light of his borderline anemia and the loss of blood entailed by the procedure, she will be prepared to give him a transfusion. I do not feel good about this. I ask her if George is in condition to be operated upon. Her reply is that his condition is not good but that there is no choice (actually I thought that with animals there was always a choice, about which more later). At 6PM she calls to tell me that George is about as good as can be expected, given that he did need a transfusion, and she is leaving him in the care of a technician until the next morning when another vet will come in. At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else. I tell the surgeon to call another facility to expect us and to fax over his records. I will go pick him up. I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather II when Castro takes over Havana while he is trying to get to the airport. I rush over to the "hospital" and it takes me half an hour to get in to find out what’s happening. No one comes to the door. I don’t have a cell phone. By the time I get in I can only get a glimpse of George, who is in a wall of cages with other pets. I’m not allowed to stay there with him. I ask the technician to bring his carrier and make copies of his records since 6/18 (I had brought them George’s entire file from the time I adopted him ten years ago). All she gives me is the handwritten notes from that day. When I ask for copies of the diagnostic reports, she says "I was told to give you this." I have to hail my own cab. I cannot feel George’s heart or breath. He is in a body tourniquet with his iv’s attached. I think he may be dead and I am praying under my breath as we stop for lights every 30 seconds or so. George suddenly makes an effort to stand up in his carrier and moves his head under my hand. This is the last time I see him awake, conscious, whatever. I’m not a vet after all. 11PM We get to the other facility. A very young vet takes George in to "examine" him and comes back some time later with a laundry list of emergency and test procedures starting with another transfusion. Maybe somebody knows the chances of a cat surviving after two transfusions in one day, but I’m not a betting man. I also notice, that I’m not only speaking to my fifth "strange" vet in ten days, but I’m looking at another indecipherable list that totals $1500 before morning. I ask her to bring George to me. She wants to bring him into the public waiting room. I ask her if there is somewhere more private, so she brings him to an examination table where I look at him inert on the steel table. I need to decide fast. George needs to go back under oxygen and have another transfusion immediately if he is to survive. I make the decision I probably would have made much earlier if the choice had not been taken away from me and PTS. If anybody is interested in Dr. Raclyn’s response to this nightmare, I will include it in a follow up post. Ron Ross
Response:
<snip I think that this is a very accurate response Cheryl. These were my feelings too. I want to offer condolences to the original poster at this time. I do feel the Dr. was defensive in this response, perhaps more so than would be advisable. He does suggest you file your complaint, and it might not be a bad idea. He says he talked to them, but that may not really be the case but rather trying to head you off.
I agree! What a horrid horrid human being! At any rate, it would be very good to get an – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – objective third party involved, because as Cheryl noted, emotions are high on both sides. I’m just terribly sorry that this happened regardless. Karen
Response:
At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else.
You know, in looking at this whole thing again, I think this is the part that most bothers me. Indeed, *I* would have believed that my cat was *currently* in that facility. What on earth did they mean here? I mean, it’s the place they performed the surgery. I would be very interested to hear other vets opinion on this particular point. Perhaps we lay people are simply too ignorant? karen
Response:
Yeah the reply seems pretty fierce from the doctor but sometimes when the customer thinks they are wrong, like the customer service you get with the phone company they back each other up. There is one part of this that I don’t understand. You say this doctor billed you or put through an estimate on a debit card you asked not to be used and therefore your rent check will bounce? How can you be mad about that unless you gave them the card number? From that standpoint I can see where you might not have the right to be mad. The only way a debit card can be used is if they first have the number. I am sorry for your loss but I am a bit confused here.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you sweeties. Here are excerpts from the letter Dr. Raclyn finally faxed me (at my request I did not want to speak with him). Again I am not trying to characterize Dr. Raclyn’s behavior or standards in such a way as to slander him. I think his remarks speak for themselves so I am not going to rebut them. I have done my best not to take his remarks out of context Quotes from Dr. Raclyn follow: . . .You may have heard that George was "not in the best shape for surgery" but both I and Dr. Katz told you quite clearly that surgery was VERY risky, but that it was the only option. In fact, Dr. Katz entered it into her medical notes that she had spoken with you and told you of the possible poor outcome of the surgery. . . . . .You mention that Dr. Katz called you back after the surgery to brief you. You mention that no discussion of euthanasia occurred. And you seem to blame us for that. Apparently Dr. Katz did not think that euthanasia or even a discussion of it was in order. George survived the surgery. Why would she discuss euthanasia with you at that time? I don’t think she considered that it would have to be done, and I don’t imagine that she thought it would be done at all. . . . . . Dr. Katz lives in the neighborhood and could have come in if necessary. Unfortunately Dr. Katz wound up at the hospital herself with a personal crisis that night. She did, however, stay in touch with Alicia, the veterinary assistant, during the entire time. Dr. Katz is in no way obligated to provide you with her cell number, nor did she have to meet with you for any reason at that point. She was on top of the case, and making good decisions concerning the care for George. You are correct in that I was not within traveling distance. You mention yourself that Dr. Katz called you at 10PM to inform you of how George was doing. In her opinion, George needed to be cared for by a veterinarian overnight. What else did you expect her to do at that point in time? She made her medical decision based on her concern for George. She was in the hospital herself and unable to meet with you. She took the time and called you to go over what was going on. In her opinion there were no other options. You seem to be upset that she didn’t offer you any other options… when in fact, in her opinion, there weren’t any other options. . . . Alicia is an experienced veterinary assistant and I have seen her many times in emergency situations and she has always been extremely calm and collected, no matter what was happening. On the other hand, she did write in her notes that YOU were being overly aggressive with her. . . . . . In any case, you made the transfer to MVG and George survived the trip, and the doctor at that hospital gave you her medical recommendations. Instead of following her recommendations, you decided to euthanize George. That was certainly not OUR fault, nor the vet’s at MVG. Nobody told you to euthanize George, or even suggested that you do so. If George was doing poorly after surgery, that problem was being dealt with as best as possible. Humans are routinely transferred from one hospital to another, even when critical, when another hospital has different or better facilities. You were fully aware that we do not have a doctor in the hospital 24 hours a day, so don’t blame us for that. Dr. Katz gave you and George exemplary care and service and you have nothing to complain about concerning her care or behavior. . . . . . In any case, you made the transfer to MVG and George survived the trip, and the doctor at that hospital gave you her medical recommendations. Instead of following her recommendations, you decided to euthanize George. That was certainly not OUR fault, nor the vet’s at MVG. Nobody told you to euthanize George, or even suggested that you do so. If George was doing poorly after surgery, that problem was being dealt with as best as possible. Humans are routinely transferred from one hospital to another, even when critical, when another hospital has different or better facilities. You were fully aware that we do not have a doctor in the hospital 24 hours a day, so don’t blame us for that. Dr. Katz gave you and George exemplary care and service and you have nothing to complain about concerning her care or behavior. . . . . . .I heard indirectly that you were threatening me about going to AAHA and lodging a complaint. I urge you to do so if you haven’t already. I have already talked with AAHA and gone over the case and the care completely, and they acknowledge that the case was handled well beyond what would be considered the standard level of care. Concerning your "list" of "what you want from me".. don’t be ridiculous. The care was exemplary, the procedures that were to be done, were done, and finally, you will get no refund or payment from me at all. Now, what I want from you is simple. Pay your bill in full. Forget about the Pet Assure. You never showed us your card, you never told us you were from Pet Assure, and in fact on the sign in sheet you told us you came to us because you saw our hospital "while walking by". I don’t give discounts to people who are trying to skip out on their obligations. If you think you were wronged, feel free to take me to court. In fact, I would love to go to court with you, preferably in front of an audience and judge, so why don’t you call the People’s Court. Their judgement is binding, and I will certainly give you everything you want if they rule against me. If you choose not pay your bill, I will send you to a collection agency, and they will either collect or your credit will be crippled. I have your signature on the admission sheet and the estimate and the services that you contracted for were performed. The fact that George died is not our fault. It was, in the last analysis, you who decided to euthanize him, not us. In fact, we never recommended that option. End of quotes. BTW, Dr. Raclyn put through the amount of the estimate without notifying me or showing me the final bill. He used a debit card I specifically asked not be be used, and as a result, my rent check will bounce. My landlord has been much more understanding than Dr. Raclyn. Am I missing something here?
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I understand why you took George from their care… I also understand the high emotions that go along with trying to save the life of your companion and though I’ve never actually been told the outcome would be bad if you spend so much on going through with it, I have been offered test after test after test with no conclusive answers and that is very frustrating and emotional while watching a beloved pet getting worse. You are seriously grieving and you have that right! If you are like me, you’ve had your pet longer than pet insurance has been around and I think vets now are used to people *having* pet insurance. Even if you go into a lifelong commitment to taking in a pet, sometimes you can not ever be prepared for illness that is evasive, and as we know, cats are good at hiding their illness until they are very very sick. At least with a child or another loved one there is Medicare or Medicaid if you can’t afford care for a human. Excuse me if I am misunderstanding about money issues, and none of what has happened warrents the above treatment from a provider of animal care at your time of grief. I am very sorry you are going through this. I also am going through the illness of a beloved pet and it will put me in debt for a while. I also felt I wasn’t being treated properly and I’m also very emotional, the vet picked up on that right away and she probably held back some of what she would say to someone who didn’t break down in tears everytime she mentioned another test. I felt I should have been called every step of the way during my kitties treatment and instead I just went straight there after work every day demanding to know why I wasn’t called with an update. It all goes back to what I said about overbooking and specialists. This does NOT excuse the dr in the above exchange becoming so defensive without letting you get past your grief. They should know grief. I’m so sorry about George. I hope you can find peace.
Thank you for your very kind reply. I am very sorry to hear of your trouble, and I hope you have a beautiful if painful experience with his or her final stage. That’s all I expected from the experts but it appears I have a completely different notion of what their role is. I realize that I am not making myself clear on euthanasia, either to you or to the vet, although I thought I was very clear with him. I said goodbye to George the day before I took him in (in fact I was advised to). I am at peace with George, my memory of him, what I tried to do to help him, what I did. I was the entire way, as soon as I committed to the ultra-sound. I knew that eventually I would have to put George to sleep and I preferred he die with me than with strangers. I knew things would never be the same with him. I also knew that I would be a much better bulwark to my next kitty’s health and long life no matter how this turned out. I’m not a great fan of emergency medicine. In the final analysis, I believe more cats are PTS by loving owners than die on the operating table or at home "naturally." This has to be built-in to a vet’s "business," not to mention their art. But what I’m getting from him is plausable deniability. It doesn’t make me angry, it makes me curious if the entire network of professional veterinary organizations are willing to condone this as acceptable practice. I was not looking for a cure. I was looking for dignity. He knew that and he blew it. I don’t want revenge, I want to burst his bubble of ethical competency. I may at the end of the day have to pay the bill as he sees it. But my coping with George’s death and my indignation at our treatment are now two different things. I stick to my point: since they could not offer much assurance or on the spot treatment for what was obviously a serious condition, then why did they take the choice of euthanasia away from me until I had travelled in panic somewhere else to start all over again with George in my lap. Moving on: How long has your kitty been in the hospital? If you’re not happy, and you’re committed, I think you should find a vet who is associated with several hospitals and get her/his advice about what to do next. I think the surgeon was probably great but she wasn’t available and I was dealing with her through her mutual self-interest with Dr. Raclyn, rather than directly. You need someone who will be accountable to you not her employer. Who is willing to get your cat out of where he/she is safely and watch her closely once she needs to be admitted elsewhere, if she does. Take possession of her records now, if you haven’t already. Don’t wait until the last moment to find out what the doctors really think. Above all, don’t rely on their specialist, find anybody qualified who will support your goals. I don’t think working for a salary in the hospitals helps them realize what you want if they don’t know you. Do a search for holistic vets and narrow it down to your area. Most of them I’ve found have DVMs also and have practiced for a number of years in conventional settings. They usually associate themselves with hospitals but they get paid by the client. Kind of like a real people specialist (I know, they’re super versions of this arrogance I’ve encountered). Also please read about cures, palliation, whatever coming from within the patient and not from without by dramatic urgent means. If you and your pet can back away from emergency mode and buy yourself any amount of time, you can regain control and have a great experience, albeit a terribly sad and painful one. I don’t believe animals contemplate their own death, and it’s a blessing for them and for us. They do know that for as long as they have life they love you. And we should appreciate it deep down no matter how the plot plays out. I learned a lot about love from Georgie in the past two weeks and I’m not done loving yet.
Response:
I’m interested in the rest of the post to this story! BonM
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please find and stay with a vet who knows you and your pet, whom you can really trust. Don’t let what happened to me happen to you. ——- 6/18/02 My ~11 year old DLH George is taken to our usual vet with a severely bloated stomach, belatedly discovered weight loss, and malaise. A CBC, T4, and X-Ray are taken along with a sample of the abdominal fluid. The results are inconclusive. The vet I trust is out on maternity leave and I don’t know anybody at this facility anymore, and they don’t know me and George. 6/21/02 George undergoes an ultra-sound at the same facility. The diagnosis is greatly enlarged spleen and mast cell involvement. The ultra-sound cannot determine if the cancer is malignant. The recommendation is surgery followed by chemo if a biopsy of the spleen and liver indicate metastasis. Yet another vet tells me this, since the first lady is not on that day, and the ultra-sound internal medicine specialist comes in as needed and does not talk to clients directly. I freak and start to research spleen cancer. So far George is not nearly as obviously sick as my other cats have been in the final stages of cancer, for which they were never operated on or drugged. We had a couple of months to say good bye to them and then we brought them in on the day it became obvious they had turned for the very worst. George’s fate will be far different. 6/26/05 I go to see Philip Raclyn at the Riverside Veterinary Group, which does business as the Veterinary *Hospital* of New York. Dr. Raclyn’s website at www.holisticvets.com offers the best in conventional and alternative treatments, and I wanted a second opinion on the surgery. I was hoping to avoid it or at least chemo. Dr. Raclyn strongly urged me to have the surgery performed at his facility immediately. I was crushed but we admitted George the next day for rest and nourishment. 6/28 The RVG’s surgeon, who is not a staff member but comes in as needed, calls to discuss George’s condition with me previous to the actual surgery. She mentions that, especially in light of his borderline anemia and the loss of blood entailed by the procedure, she will be prepared to give him a transfusion. I do not feel good about this. I ask her if George is in condition to be operated upon. Her reply is that his condition is not good but that there is no choice (actually I thought that with animals there was always a choice, about which more later). At 6PM she calls to tell me that George is about as good as can be expected, given that he did need a transfusion, and she is leaving him in the care of a technician until the next morning when another vet will come in. At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else. I tell the surgeon to call another facility to expect us and to fax over his records. I will go pick him up. I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather II when Castro takes over Havana while he is trying to get to the airport. I rush over to the "hospital" and it takes me half an hour to get in to find out what’s happening. No one comes to the door. I don’t have a cell phone. By the time I get in I can only get a glimpse of George, who is in a wall of cages with other pets. I’m not allowed to stay there with him. I ask the technician to bring his carrier and make copies of his records since 6/18 (I had brought them George’s entire file from the time I adopted him ten years ago). All she gives me is the handwritten notes from that day. When I ask for copies of the diagnostic reports, she says "I was told to give you this." I have to hail my own cab. I cannot feel George’s heart or breath. He is in a body tourniquet with his iv’s attached. I think he may be dead and I am praying under my breath as we stop for lights every 30 seconds or so. George suddenly makes an effort to stand up in his carrier and moves his head under my hand. This is the last time I see him awake, conscious, whatever. I’m not a vet after all. 11PM We get to the other facility. A very young vet takes George in to "examine" him and comes back some time later with a laundry list of emergency and test procedures starting with another transfusion. Maybe somebody knows the chances of a cat surviving after two transfusions in one day, but I’m not a betting man. I also notice, that I’m not only speaking to my fifth "strange" vet in ten days, but I’m looking at another indecipherable list that totals $1500 before morning. I ask her to bring George to me. She wants to bring him into the public waiting room. I ask her if there is somewhere more private, so she brings him to an examination table where I look at him inert on the steel table. I need to decide fast. George needs to go back under oxygen and have another transfusion immediately if he is to survive. I make the decision I probably would have made much earlier if the choice had not been taken away from me and PTS. If anybody is interested in Dr. Raclyn’s response to this nightmare, I will include it in a follow up post. Ron Ross
Response:
. .I heard indirectly that you were threatening me about going to AAHA and lodging a complaint. I urge you to do so if you haven’t already. I have already talked with AAHA and gone over the case and the care completely, and they acknowledge that the case was handled well beyond what would be considered the standard level of care. Bull. Lodge the complaint, and be sure to show them this fax. Now, what I want from you is simple. Pay your bill in full. Forget about the Pet Assure. I don’t give discounts to people who are trying to skip out on their obligations. If you think you were wronged, feel free to take me to court. In fact, I would love to go to court with you, preferably in front of an audience and judge, so why don’t you call the People’s Court. What do you suppose the obligations are that he has mentioned? Nothing you could have said or done deserve this kind of cruel taunting in response. This letter is callous, rude and unprofessional. (just wondering-why did you choose to have the surgery performed at this clinic rather than your regular vet office?) Am I missing something here? You’re missing a rational explanation and some well deserved compassion. You have my sympathies. -angie
Response:
<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I understand why you took George from their care… I also understand the high emotions that go along with trying to save the life of your companion and though I’ve never actually been told the outcome would be bad if you spend so much on going through with it, I have been offered test after test after test with no conclusive answers and that is very frustrating and emotional while watching a beloved pet getting worse. You are seriously grieving and you have that right! If you are like me, you’ve had your pet longer than pet insurance has been around and I think vets now are used to people *having* pet insurance. Even if you go into a lifelong commitment to taking in a pet, sometimes you can not ever be prepared for illness that is evasive, and as we know, cats are good at hiding their illness until they are very very sick. At least with a child or another loved one there is Medicare or Medicaid if you can’t afford care for a human. Excuse me if I am misunderstanding about money issues, and none of what has happened warrents the above treatment from a provider of animal care at your time of grief. I am very sorry you are going through this. I also am going through the illness of a beloved pet and it will put me in debt for a while. I also felt I wasn’t being treated properly and I’m also very emotional, the vet picked up on that right away and she probably held back some of what she would say to someone who didn’t break down in tears everytime she mentioned another test. I felt I should have been called every step of the way during my kitties treatment and instead I just went straight there after work every day demanding to know why I wasn’t called with an update. It all goes back to what I said about overbooking and specialists. This does NOT excuse the dr in the above exchange becoming so defensive without letting you get past your grief. They should know grief. I’m so sorry about George. I hope you can find peace.
I think that this is a very accurate response Cheryl. These were my feelings too. I want to offer condolences to the original poster at this time. I do feel the Dr. was defensive in this response, perhaps more so than would be advisable. He does suggest you file your complaint, and it might not be a bad idea. He says he talked to them, but that may not really be the case but rather trying to head you off. At any rate, it would be very good to get an objective third party involved, because as Cheryl noted, emotions are high on both sides. I’m just terribly sorry that this happened regardless. Karen
Response:
Actually I would be very interested in hearing the surgeons response to this. I would also be interested in knowing the names of other doctors and hospitals involved-I am a former NY Vet Tech and have since moved to Nevada. Just thought maybe I may know those involved. You can Email me privately if you like. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please find and stay with a vet who knows you and your pet, whom you can really trust. Don’t let what happened to me happen to you. ——- 6/18/02 My ~11 year old DLH George is taken to our usual vet with a severely bloated stomach, belatedly discovered weight loss, and malaise. A CBC, T4, and X-Ray are taken along with a sample of the abdominal fluid. The results are inconclusive. The vet I trust is out on maternity leave and I don’t know anybody at this facility anymore, and they don’t know me and George. 6/21/02 George undergoes an ultra-sound at the same facility. The diagnosis is greatly enlarged spleen and mast cell involvement. The ultra-sound cannot determine if the cancer is malignant. The recommendation is surgery followed by chemo if a biopsy of the spleen and liver indicate metastasis. Yet another vet tells me this, since the first lady is not on that day, and the ultra-sound internal medicine specialist comes in as needed and does not talk to clients directly. I freak and start to research spleen cancer. So far George is not nearly as obviously sick as my other cats have been in the final stages of cancer, for which they were never operated on or drugged. We had a couple of months to say good bye to them and then we brought them in on the day it became obvious they had turned for the very worst. George’s fate will be far different. 6/26/05 I go to see Philip Raclyn at the Riverside Veterinary Group, which does business as the Veterinary *Hospital* of New York. Dr. Raclyn’s website at www.holisticvets.com offers the best in conventional and alternative treatments, and I wanted a second opinion on the surgery. I was hoping to avoid it or at least chemo. Dr. Raclyn strongly urged me to have the surgery performed at his facility immediately. I was crushed but we admitted George the next day for rest and nourishment. 6/28 The RVG’s surgeon, who is not a staff member but comes in as needed, calls to discuss George’s condition with me previous to the actual surgery. She mentions that, especially in light of his borderline anemia and the loss of blood entailed by the procedure, she will be prepared to give him a transfusion. I do not feel good about this. I ask her if George is in condition to be operated upon. Her reply is that his condition is not good but that there is no choice (actually I thought that with animals there was always a choice, about which more later). At 6PM she calls to tell me that George is about as good as can be expected, given that he did need a transfusion, and she is leaving him in the care of a technician until the next morning when another vet will come in. At 10PM the surgeon calls to tell me George has been put on oxygen and needs to be moved to a facility where a vet can attend to him. Gee, that’s what I thought we already had in place. She doesn’t give me any way to get back in touch with her and in fact is unavailable to come in immediately. Dr. Raclyn himself I later found out was away camping and out of cell phone range. There is nobody else. I tell the surgeon to call another facility to expect us and to fax over his records. I will go pick him up. I feel like Al Pacino in Godfather II when Castro takes over Havana while he is trying to get to the airport. I rush over to the "hospital" and it takes me half an hour to get in to find out what’s happening. No one comes to the door. I don’t have a cell phone. By the time I get in I can only get a glimpse of George, who is in a wall of cages with other pets. I’m not allowed to stay there with him. I ask the technician to bring his carrier and make copies of his records since 6/18 (I had brought them George’s entire file from the time I adopted him ten years ago). All she gives me is the handwritten notes from that day. When I ask for copies of the diagnostic reports, she says "I was told to give you this." I have to hail my own cab. I cannot feel George’s heart or breath. He is in a body tourniquet with his iv’s attached. I think he may be dead and I am praying under my breath as we stop for lights every 30 seconds or so. George suddenly makes an effort to stand up in his carrier and moves his head under my hand. This is the last time I see him awake, conscious, whatever. I’m not a vet after all. 11PM We get to the other facility. A very young vet takes George in to "examine" him and comes back some time later with a laundry list of emergency and test procedures starting with another transfusion. Maybe somebody knows the chances of a cat surviving after two transfusions in one day, but I’m not a betting man. I also notice, that I’m not only speaking to my fifth "strange" vet in ten days, but I’m looking at another indecipherable list that totals $1500 before morning. I ask her to bring George to me. She wants to bring him into the public waiting room. I ask her if there is somewhere more private, so she brings him to an examination table where I look at him inert on the steel table. I need to decide fast. George needs to go back under oxygen and have another transfusion immediately if he is to survive. I make the decision I probably would have made much earlier if the choice had not been taken away from me and PTS. If anybody is interested in Dr. Raclyn’s response to this nightmare, I will include it in a follow up post. Ron Ross
Response:
What do you suppose the obligations are that he has mentioned? Nothing you could have said or done deserve this kind of cruel taunting in response. This letter is callous, rude and unprofessional. (just wondering-why did you choose to have the surgery performed at this clinic rather than your regular vet office?)
I don’t think most vets are equipped to handle special care like this, for my cat I was referred out to a specialist for ultra-sound and have had all specialty treatment handled by them. I think part of the lesson here for others reading (and I hope Ron would want others to learn from this) is another thing to find out when you are screening a new vet. Exactly what are they equipped to handle. Just horrid….:-( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thank you sweeties. Here are excerpts from the letter Dr. Raclyn finally faxed me (at my request I did not want to speak with him). Again I am not trying to characterize Dr. Raclyn’s behavior or standards in such a way as to slander him. I think his remarks speak for themselves so I am not going to rebut them. I have done my best not to take his remarks out of context Quotes from Dr. Raclyn follow: . . .You may have heard that George was "not in the best shape for surgery" but both I and Dr. Katz told you quite clearly that surgery was VERY risky, but that it was the only option. In fact, Dr. Katz entered it into her medical notes that she had spoken with you and told you of the possible poor outcome of the surgery. . . . . .You mention that Dr. Katz called you back after the surgery to brief you. You mention that no discussion of euthanasia occurred. And you seem to blame us for that. Apparently Dr. Katz did not think that euthanasia or even a discussion of it was in order. George survived the surgery. Why would she discuss euthanasia with you at that time? I don’t think she considered that it would have to be done, and I don’t imagine that she thought it would be done at all. . . . . . Dr. Katz lives in the neighborhood and could have come in if necessary. Unfortunately Dr. Katz wound up at the hospital herself with a personal crisis that night. She did, however, stay in touch with Alicia, the veterinary assistant, during the entire time. Dr. Katz is in no way obligated to provide you with her cell number, nor did she have to meet with you for any reason at that point. She was on top of the case, and making good decisions concerning the care for George. You are correct in that I was not within traveling distance. You mention yourself that Dr. Katz called you at 10PM to inform you of how George was doing. In her opinion, George needed to be cared for by a veterinarian overnight. What else did you expect her to do at that point in time? She made her medical decision based on her concern for George. She was in the hospital herself and unable to meet with you. She took the time and called you to go over what was going on. In her opinion there were no other options. You seem to be upset that she didn’t offer you any other options… when in fact, in her opinion, there weren’t any other options. . . . Alicia is an experienced veterinary assistant and I have seen her many times in emergency situations and she has always been extremely calm and collected, no matter what was happening. On the other hand, she did write in her notes that YOU were being overly aggressive with her. . . . . . In any case, you made the transfer to MVG and George survived the trip, and the doctor at that hospital gave you her medical recommendations. Instead of following her recommendations, you decided to euthanize George. That was certainly not OUR fault, nor the vet’s at MVG. Nobody told you to euthanize George, or even suggested that you do so. If George was doing poorly after surgery, that problem was being dealt with as best as possible. Humans are routinely transferred from one hospital to another, even when critical, when another hospital has different or better facilities. You were fully aware that we do not have a doctor in the hospital 24 hours a day, so don’t blame us for that. Dr. Katz gave you and George exemplary care and service and you have nothing to complain about concerning her care or behavior. . . . . . In any case, you made the transfer to MVG and George survived the trip, and the doctor at that hospital gave you her medical recommendations. Instead of following her recommendations, you decided to euthanize George. That was certainly not OUR fault, nor the vet’s at MVG. Nobody told you to euthanize George, or even suggested that you do so. If George was doing poorly after surgery, that problem was being dealt with as best as possible. Humans are routinely transferred from one hospital to another, even when critical, when another hospital has different or better facilities. You were fully aware that we do not have a doctor in the hospital 24 hours a day, so don’t blame us for that. Dr. Katz gave you and George exemplary care and service and you have nothing to complain about concerning her care or behavior. . . . . . .I heard indirectly that you were threatening me about going to AAHA and lodging a complaint. I urge you to do so if you haven’t already. I have already talked with AAHA and gone over the case and the care completely, and they acknowledge that the case was handled well beyond what would be considered the standard level of care. Concerning your "list" of "what you want from me".. don’t be ridiculous. The care was exemplary, the procedures that were to be done, were done, and finally, you will get no refund or payment from me at all. Now, what I want from you is simple. Pay your bill in full. Forget about the Pet Assure. You never showed us your card, you never told us you were from Pet Assure, and in fact on the sign in sheet you told us you came to us because you saw our hospital "while walking by". I don’t give discounts to people who are trying to skip out on their obligations. If you think you were wronged, feel free to take me to court. In fact, I would love to go to court with you, preferably in front of an audience and judge, so why don’t you call the People’s Court. Their judgement is binding, and I will certainly give you everything you want if they rule against me. If you choose not pay your bill, I will send you to a collection agency, and they will either collect or your credit will be crippled. I have your signature on the admission sheet and the estimate and the services that you contracted for were performed. The fact that George died is not our fault. It was, in the last analysis, you who decided to euthanize him, not us. In fact, we never recommended that option. End of quotes. BTW, Dr. Raclyn put through the amount of the estimate without notifying me or showing me the final bill. He used a debit card I specifically asked not be be used, and as a result, my rent check will bounce. My landlord has been much more understanding than Dr. Raclyn. Am I missing something here?
I think I understand why you took George from their care… I also understand the high emotions that go along with trying to save the life of your companion and though I’ve never actually been told the outcome would be bad if you spend so much on going through with it, I have been offered test after test after test with no conclusive answers and that is very frustrating and emotional while watching a beloved pet getting worse. You are seriously grieving and you have that right! If you are like me, you’ve had your pet longer than pet insurance has been around and I think vets now are used to people *having* pet insurance. Even if you go into a lifelong commitment to taking in a pet, sometimes you can not ever be prepared for illness that is evasive, and as we know, cats are good at hiding their illness until they are very very sick. At least with a child or another loved one there is Medicare or Medicaid if you can’t afford care for a human. Excuse me if I am misunderstanding about money issues, and none of what has happened warrents the above treatment from a provider of animal care at your time of grief. I am very sorry you are going through this. I also am going through the illness of a beloved pet and it will put me in debt for a while. I also felt I wasn’t being treated properly and I’m also very emotional, the vet picked up on that right away and she probably held back some of what she would say to someone who didn’t break down in tears everytime she mentioned another test. I felt I should have been called every step of the way during my kitties treatment and instead I just went straight there after work every day demanding to know why I wasn’t called with an update. It all goes back to what I said about overbooking and specialists. This does NOT excuse the dr in the above exchange becoming so defensive without letting you get past your grief. They should know grief. I’m so sorry about George. I hope you can find peace. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Thank you sweeties. Here are excerpts from the letter Dr. Raclyn finally faxed me (at my request I did not want to speak with him). Again I am not trying to characterize Dr. Raclyn’s behavior or standards in such a way as to slander him. I think his remarks speak for themselves so I am not going to rebut them. I have done my best not to take his remarks out of context Quotes from Dr. Raclyn follow: . . .You may have heard that George was "not in the best shape for surgery" but both I and Dr. Katz told you quite clearly that surgery was VERY risky, but that it was the only option. In fact, Dr. Katz entered it into her medical notes that she had spoken with you and told you of the possible poor outcome of the surgery. . . . . .You mention that Dr. Katz called you back after the surgery to brief you. You mention that no discussion of euthanasia occurred. And you seem to blame us for that. Apparently Dr. Katz did not think that euthanasia or even a discussion of it was in order. George survived the surgery. Why would she discuss euthanasia with you at that time? I don
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