Question:

Has anyone else noticed dilated pupils before and during a seizure? What would be the cause of this?

My husband can always tell when a seizure is coming from my eyes. He said they get dull & yellowish. The Dr says they look "Spaced Out". After the seizure completely passes my eyes get clear & bright again. Going to have hubby check the pupils to see if that is changing too. donna

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My daughters pupils are always dilated before, during and after her seizure. Her eyes widen too, like she is afraid.   Her heartrate increases too – like she been running awhile. Michelle

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Has anyone else noticed dilated pupils before and during a seizure? What would be the cause of this?

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A couple of times I had an ‘aura’ with ‘blurred vision’. When I went and looked in a mirror, One Pupil was about twice the SIZE of the other! By covering the ‘one eye’ (like with an eyepatch), it cleared after an hour. MINE was during gradual Increase in Med. Levels about 2 years ago. Have you recently had an Adjustment to Your Med. levels? Could be your body ‘adapting’ to the balance changes. Good health to you. P.S. IF you’re having these Most times Ahead of a seizure it may be a clue that Med. balance needs to be adjusted, if they’re ‘just irritating’ they may be ‘just an Aura’ which can pass w.o. a full seizure kicking in.  Gordon. hilary wrote:

 Has anyone else noticed dilated pupils before and during a seizure? What would be the cause of this?

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hilary <turbi…@intergate.bc.ca

wrote: Has anyone else noticed dilated pupils before and during a seizure? What would be the cause of this?

If dilated pupils come along with an increase in heart rate, then it might result from a generalized increase in sympathetic outflow (an activation of the so-called sympathetic nervous system).  A sort of "fight or flight" or "anxiety/stress" type response. If it was ONLY dilated pupils, then it could be a more localized activation of the cranial nerves that innervate control of pupils. That seems less likely to me, but a possibility I suppose. I don’t really know tho, this is all just me guessing off the top of my head. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self metaphorSPAMBL…@usaor.net     or    anon-7…@anon.twwells.com (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

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Hilary – It seems to me Stewart’s response is in the ballpark so to speak.  Years ago I read a book about Epilepsy titled Nerves In Collision by Walter C. Alvarez, M.D.  Dr. Alvarez’s book was primarily about what he called non-convulsive epilepsies but he went into visible symptoms and changes such as dilated pupils.  An eye doctor (opthamologist – M.D.) sometimes puts drops into the eye to dilate the pupil.  It’s known that some of the medicines used to treat ADHD can at times dilate pupils.  What Stewart says about the autonomic nervous system (ANS) and the sympathetic part of the ANS is again in the ballpark as to what causes pupil dilation it seems to me.  The major articles on vision and the human eye in the most current major encyclopedias including those available on cd-rom can provide a good overview (not a perfect one) of what’s behind changes in pupil size in my view.  Some are available online today for free. In article <metaphorSPAMBLOCK-0111990051570…@dap-209-114-165-123.pm4- 1-s0.eth.pgh.pa.stargate.net

,

  metaphorSPAMBL…@usaor.net (Stewart/sna) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

hilary <turbi…@intergate.bc.ca wrote: Has anyone else noticed dilated pupils before and during a seizure?

What

would be the cause of this? If dilated pupils come along with an increase in heart rate, then it

might

result from a generalized increase in sympathetic outflow (an

activation

of the so-called sympathetic nervous system).  A sort of "fight or

flight"

or "anxiety/stress" type response. If it was ONLY dilated pupils, then it could be a more localized activation of the cranial nerves that innervate control of pupils.

That

seems less likely to me, but a possibility I suppose. I don’t really know tho, this is all just me guessing off the top of

my head.

Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self metaphorSPAMBL…@usaor.net     or    anon-7…@anon.twwells.com (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

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Question:

Finally went in for my hospital appointment this morning following my downgrade to a non-urgent case (see my previous postings) – had my eyes photographed and was then whisked stright in for lasering in both eyes! I am writing this two hours later – the world is a blur and goodness knows what the spelling’s like! Thanks Fester for the overview of what happens; it was pretty much as you described – mild discomfort and the occasional pricking sensation. Have to go back in 4 weeks for an assessment. Going to lie down now with my friend Ibuprofen – slight headache! Cheers L3K

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Finally went in for my hospital appointment this morning following my downgrade to a non-urgent case (see my previous postings) – had my eyes photographed and was then whisked stright in for lasering in both eyes! I am writing this two hours later – the world is a blur and goodness knows what the spelling’s like! Thanks Fester for the overview of what happens; it was pretty much as you described – mild discomfort and the occasional pricking sensation. Have to go back in 4 weeks for an assessment. Going to lie down now with my friend Ibuprofen – slight headache! Cheers L3K

It’s not so much painful as mildly irritating … get thisen to bed or sit in a darkened room and avoid ANYTHING like television, computer screens, smoking ( if you do ) and coffee. I found low activity was best …. i don’t get migraines but the dull ache that lasering gave me was enough to knock me out of action for a goood ten hours. Your vision will begin to sharpen up after a week or so. If you close your eyes and look at bright light through your eyelids you can see the marks the laser has left. Also check your visual field by moving your eyes over a stationary object so you can spot where the blind spots are, after a few days / weeks those blind spots will appear to disappear as your eyes learn to compensate for the missing data. As much food with leutin ( onions & spinach & green pepper) as you can find will do no harm as it can improve blood flow around the eyes which will help recovery. How many burns did you have in each eye? I was booked for 300 in both but ended up needing only about 75 in the right eye, 6 months later that eye is still fine but the left one may need some treatment, assesment in 4 months time. Do you wear glasses at the moment? If you do … there is no point going for a new set until the laser treatment has worn off and you’ve had a clear 6 months etc. How did you find the flourescine angiagram???  I found pissing pure luminous yellow for a day most amusing, almost worth the gippy sickness it gives me as they inject it Can’t stress enough though, avoid any vdu work and avoid television. Also avoid driving if you can for a couple of days as bright headlights and dark nights can leave you a bit short on detail until things settle down. Get well soon. Patrick

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As much food with leutin ( onions & spinach & green pepper) as you can find will do no harm as it can improve blood flow around the eyes which will help recovery.

I was going to ask you about the onions and peppers ‘cos you mentioned them in a previous post. From where does this recommendation come – the consultant and nurse at the eye clinic had not heard that one before. How many burns did you have in each eye? I was booked for 300 in both but ended up needing only about 75 in the right eye, 6 months later that eye is still fine but the left one may need some treatment, assesment in 4 months time.

About 50 I reckon – hard to keep count with the bright light and trying to keep eyes open! Do you wear glasses at the moment?

Nope How did you find the flourescine angiagram???  I found pissing pure luminous yellow for a day most amusing, almost worth the gippy sickness it gives me as they inject it

They didn’t do one – I had: Pupil dilation (manual examination), fluorescene eye drops (camera), anaesthetic + more ananaesthetic. Can’t stress enough though, avoid any vdu work and avoid television. Also avoid driving if you can for a couple of days as bright headlights and dark nights can leave you a bit short on detail until things settle down.

Sorry – I’m an IT manager and have to go in tomorrow to find out why BT have completely screwed up a 512K – to – 2MB broadband update; they managed to cut off all the phones to the building, forgot to tell us we’d be having a new user ID which would need to be keyed into the router AND we’d move from one static IP address to 5 no-NAT addresses so now I have 19 remote sites that can’t see HQ to do SQL data replication, we’ve lost the Intranet and no-one at HQ can do email – at least my boss won’t chew me out if I play the sympathy card. Oh, I won’t drive in!! L3K

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– — Fester T1 – 28u Lantus and as much Novorapid as the meter says. Dx 1993, Hba1c 6.1%. Cholesterol 3.9

As much food with leutin ( onions & spinach & green pepper) as you can find will do no harm as it can improve blood flow around the eyes which will help recovery. I was going to ask you about the onions and peppers ‘cos you mentioned them in a previous post. From where does this recommendation come – the consultant and nurse at the eye clinic had not heard that one before.

Quentin Grady over in ASD … leutin is one of the chemicals along with bioflavinals that improve retinal circulation and sharpen vision, i reasoned it would do no harm to make sure my stape veg intake was those two items. Either way it seemed to do the job. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many burns did you have in each eye? I was booked for 300 in both but ended up needing only about 75 in the right eye, 6 months later that eye is still fine but the left one may need some treatment, assesment in 4 months time. About 50 I reckon – hard to keep count with the bright light and trying to keep eyes open! Do you wear glasses at the moment? Nope How did you find the flourescine angiagram???  I found pissing pure luminous yellow for a day most amusing, almost worth the gippy sickness it gives me as they inject it They didn’t do one – I had: Pupil dilation (manual examination), fluorescene eye drops (camera), anaesthetic + more ananaesthetic.

I wish they’d skipped mine!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can’t stress enough though, avoid any vdu work and avoid television. Also avoid driving if you can for a couple of days as bright headlights and dark nights can leave you a bit short on detail until things settle down. Sorry – I’m an IT manager and have to go in tomorrow to find out why BT have completely screwed up a 512K – to – 2MB broadband update; they managed to cut off all the phones to the building, forgot to tell us we’d be having a new user ID which would need to be keyed into the router AND we’d move from one static IP address to 5 no-NAT addresses so now I have 19 remote sites that can’t see HQ to do SQL data replication, we’ve lost the Intranet and no-one at HQ can do email – at least my boss won’t chew me out if I play the sympathy card. Oh, I won’t drive in!! L3K

Same job as me, i worked at home via secure vpn for a couple of days. That’s the one thing diabetes doesn’t always let you do … plan, pain in the ass at times isn’t it. You’ll no doubt be feeling much better for getting things sorted out i bet!

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Question:

Magnet, a cat I once had, also had long fangs that use to stick out of his mouth when his mouth was closed. Ahh… he use to look so cute. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wizard’s fangs are so long they stick way out of his mouth, one of his nicknames is Dracucat hinesranch

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Nice cat ! I do not feel I gonna be haunted by nightmares cos’ such picture ! Congratulations if the shot is yourse !! Regards. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t open this picture if you’re prone to nightmares. I was rumaging through a images directory on my computer and came across the scariest cat photo I’ve ever seen. Can someone ID this picture? http://www.chisp.net/~adamf4/killer_kitty.jpg

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As far as I can see he’s just yawning, great picture, much bigger than I was expecting to see, it makes a change from pics not much bigger than thumbnails.:-) — Adrian (Owned by Snoopy & Rosie) A House Is Not A Home, Without A Cat. http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=285774&a=2125317 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t open this picture if you’re prone to nightmares. I was rumaging through a images directory on my computer and came across the scariest cat photo I’ve ever seen. Can someone ID this picture? http://www.chisp.net/~adamf4/killer_kitty.jpg

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Kenny has teeth that stick out over her bottom lip…I call her Fang for short. cheers Jo http://www2.tpg.com.au/users/swigman/kincora/index.htm

Magnet, a cat I once had, also had long fangs that use to stick out of his mouth when his mouth was closed. Ahh… he use to look so cute. Wizard’s fangs are so long they stick way out of his mouth, one of his nicknames is Dracucat hinesranch

   http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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that’s not so scarey…  looks like my cat when we are rough housing..  only Shad is solid gray, only has one eye.. makes a much meaner face and has longer fangs….  LOLOL

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I can’t ID it, but it is clearly a yawning cat.  If it were a frightened or menacing cat, the pupils of the eyes would be as round as quarters. —                 Fletcher Glenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t open this picture if you’re prone to nightmares. I was rumaging through a images directory on my computer and came across the scariest cat photo I’ve ever seen. Can someone ID this picture? http://www.chisp.net/~adamf4/killer_kitty.jpg

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I can’t ID it, but it is clearly a yawning cat.  If it were a frightened or menacing cat, the pupils of the eyes would be as round as quarters.

‘kay.  Thanks for the info.  To me, the kitty looked like it was about to attack.  With feeling! I thought the pupils dilation had only to do with the amount of light. (bright == dilated;  dim == slats)

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No, pupil dilation on a cat is an indication of one of the following: low light, fear, intense interest, or aggression. Check it out the next time you drag a string in front of your cat in bright light. —                 Fletcher Glenn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t ID it, but it is clearly a yawning cat.  If it were a frightened or menacing cat, the pupils of the eyes would be as round as quarters. ‘kay.  Thanks for the info.  To me, the kitty looked like it was about to attack.  With feeling! I thought the pupils dilation had only to do with the amount of light. (bright == dilated;  dim == slats)

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Wizard’s fangs are so long they stick way out of his mouth, one of his nicknames is Dracucat hinesranch

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I can’t ID it, but it is clearly a yawning cat.  If it were a frightened or menacing cat, the pupils of the eyes would be as round as quarters. ‘kay.  Thanks for the info.  To me, the kitty looked like it was about to attack.  With feeling! I thought the pupils dilation had only to do with the amount of light. (bright == dilated;  dim == slats)

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I don’t know about scary, but that is the longest tongue I have ever seen on a cat! — xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox Marcia Marvin Portland, Oregon, USA xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox

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Whewwww….. I wonder who was brave enough to get that close to this moggy???? Great pic….. Deb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t open this picture if you’re prone to nightmares. I was rumaging through a images directory on my computer and came across the scariest cat photo I’ve ever seen. Can someone ID this picture? http://www.chisp.net/~adamf4/killer_kitty.jpg

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Don’t open this picture if you’re prone to nightmares. I was rumaging through a images directory on my computer and came across the scariest cat photo I’ve ever seen. Can someone ID this picture? http://www.chisp.net/~adamf4/killer_kitty.jpg

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Question:

I find it very easy to read my cat’s facial expressions… the slow big blink means they are content or happy with me.

When Nocturne first saw Smokey, she quite literally did a double take.  It’s hilarious to see a cat blink, look away, shake her head, and look again. –Fil

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say about Facial expressions: Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised.

I know I’ve seen Felix smile and scowl. I’ve also seen worried looks. — "The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding. " – the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL

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I think there’s a lot going on in the angle their eyelids take on.  The expression in a cat’s eyes will tell you a lot.  They’re roughly analagous to ours.

I think that cats look especially content when they’re sleeping and their eyes are closed.  They can also make a blissed out look, which is funny.

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Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. True, but I’ve found it varies from cat to cat. Basho and Issa are very good at facial expressions. One look into their eyes and you know exactly what they’re planning on doing. Xoxo is the least expressive of our bunch, perhaps because he grew up outside, without constant human contact.

I wonder if it has something to do with how long their fur is?

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say about Facial expressions: Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. I know I’ve seen Felix smile and scowl. I’ve also seen worried looks.

My small nephew aged 5 visited about 6 weeks ago.  He came in from the kitchen and said that Kitty FC had frowned at him and he thought perhaps she didn’t like him. Well, it may be that Kitty, being such a grouch had done some sort of body language to stop him from petting her.  Whatever she did, it worked.  Nathan was quite clear that she’d said " **** off"  Which is amazing for a child that doesn’t have a pet. I asked him if he was sure that she’d frowned at him.  He said he was.  I went into the kitchen to look for a frown on KFC who was meatloafing in front of the fire.  No sign at all of a frown when she saw me I believe Nathan.  Kitty FC is very grumpy and she managed to convey to this small child that he must leave her alone. What is amazing to me is that he totally understood what she was trying to convey to him and he has never had a pet himself. Tweed

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – say about Facial expressions: Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. I know I’ve seen Felix smile and scowl. I’ve also seen worried looks. My small nephew aged 5 visited about 6 weeks ago.  He came in from the kitchen and said that Kitty FC had frowned at him and he thought perhaps she didn’t like him. Well, it may be that Kitty, being such a grouch had done some sort of body language to stop him from petting her.  Whatever she did, it worked.  Nathan was quite clear that she’d said " **** off"  Which is amazing for a child that doesn’t have a pet. I asked him if he was sure that she’d frowned at him.  He said he was.  I went into the kitchen to look for a frown on KFC who was meatloafing in front of the fire.  No sign at all of a frown when she saw me I believe Nathan.  Kitty FC is very grumpy and she managed to convey to this small child that he must leave her alone. What is amazing to me is that he totally understood what she was trying to convey to him and he has never had a pet himself. Tweed

I bet it was the ear. I bet she gave that child the ear!

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yodeled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – say about Facial expressions: Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. I know I’ve seen Felix smile and scowl. I’ve also seen worried looks. My small nephew aged 5 visited about 6 weeks ago.  He came in from the kitchen and said that Kitty FC had frowned at him and he thought perhaps she didn’t like him. Well, it may be that Kitty, being such a grouch had done some sort of body language to stop him from petting her.  Whatever she did, it worked.  Nathan was quite clear that she’d said " **** off"  Which is amazing for a child that doesn’t have a pet. I asked him if he was sure that she’d frowned at him.  He said he was.  I went into the kitchen to look for a frown on KFC who was meatloafing in front of the fire.  No sign at all of a frown when she saw me I believe Nathan.  Kitty FC is very grumpy and she managed to convey to this small child that he must leave her alone. What is amazing to me is that he totally understood what she was trying to convey to him and he has never had a pet himself. Tweed I bet it was the ear. I bet she gave that child the ear!

Ha.  Nathan is more perceptive than I was.  When I was five, I pulled my grandma’s cat’s tail, and he scratched me. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

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I bet it was the ear. I bet she gave that child the ear!

LOL! Might be. Or what I was thinking, maybe she did that where they sort of shrug their back fur if they don’t want to be touched right then. Do you know what I mean? I could imagine a child calling that a frown. We need a word for that move. Shoulder frown? — Marina, Frank, Nikki, and coming soon: Mere! marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

I find it very easy to read my cat’s facial expressions… the slow big blink means they are content or happy with me.

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yodeled: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming. I find them *very* expressive.    Not just with their faces, but with their whole bodies. I read somewhere that cats actually have more muscles in their faces than humans, so their potential for making faces should be better than ours. Of course, the whisker pads include a very complex set of muscles all tied in to their innate radar system. Like others here, I think cats have very expressive body languages, but I see a lot of expression in their faces too. Both my cats can suck in their cheeks and look like they’re starving, for example. ;o)

LOL! Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

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I read somewhere that cats actually have more muscles in their faces than humans, so their potential for making faces should be better than ours. Of course, the whisker pads include a very complex set of muscles all tied in to their innate radar system.

My Cheeky, the little 7-pound tabby has a very expressive face. The vet techs laugh at her very dramatic expression of chagrin when she is there. She has this great look that tells me she is very, very put out but way too polite to tell anyone about it. That is the look she had on her face when I found her in the shelter in her donut bed–because a big old Tom was sharing it with her and she was not pleased. I reached over, she leaned her face into my hand and looked at me like "get me out of here?" And the rest is history.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming. I find it very easy to read my cat’s facial expressions… the slow big blink means they are content or happy with me. The slow blink, absolutely!  And if you slowly blink back, they will do it again (and again and again!).  I can tell Persia’s moods by a combination of everything – her eyes, ears, posture, tail.  But her big green eyes are particularly expressive. Jill

Yes, that blink says 1000 words.  The ears, eyes, etc. are obvious, but if you get that slow blink while they are staring right at you, you know.  LOL!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming. I find it very easy to read my cat’s facial expressions… the slow big blink means they are content or happy with me.

The slow blink, absolutely!  And if you slowly blink back, they will do it again (and again and again!).  I can tell Persia’s moods by a combination of everything – her eyes, ears, posture, tail.  But her big green eyes are particularly expressive. Jill

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yodeled: Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming. I find them *very* expressive.    Not just with their faces, but with their whole bodies.

I read somewhere that cats actually have more muscles in their faces than humans, so their potential for making faces should be better than ours. Of course, the whisker pads include a very complex set of muscles all tied in to their innate radar system. Like others here, I think cats have very expressive body languages, but I see a lot of expression in their faces too. Both my cats can suck in their cheeks and look like they’re starving, for example. ;o) — Marina, Frank and Nikki marina (dot) kurten (at) pp (dot) inet (dot) fi Pics at http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/frankiennikki/ and http://community.webshots.com/user/frankiennikki

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On 2005-03-16, Takayuki penned: Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love. When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

I can tell a lot about Oscar from her eyes.  It’s like you can tell one person’s smile is fake and one person’s is real, just because of tiny telltale signals you probably can’t even identify.  I can’t tell you *why* I know Oscar is excited, or upset, or curious, or playful, but I can definitely tell. — monique, who spoils Oscar unmercifully pictures: http://www.bounceswoosh.org/rpca

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<snip What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming. I can get a lot from their ear positions and how wide or focussed their eyes are. But with cats, I think communication involves their whole body, including the tail. When they’re really intent on a bird or toy they sit differently than when they are relaxed or afraid or angry at another animal.

They do so many things that crack me up.  I love it when Stinky is comfy and doesn’t want to move, but doesn’t want to miss something. It’s like he instantly grows a giraffe neck. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

The whiskers & ears tell it all. I kinda wish I could put my ears back sometimes. Betty’s coloring/marking gives her a lot of character too. The little snow-white paws make her look like so dainty, like a little lady. The eyes are very telling, too, I agree with you. Bootsie has a very distinct "wide eyed" look, her eyes get really round, when one of theother cats is doing something that gets on her nerves. Sherry Sherry

Response:

yodeled: Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

I find them *very* expressive.    Not just with their faces, but with their whole bodies. Theresa Stinky Pictures: http://community.webshots.com/album/125591586JWEFwh My Blog: http://www.humanitas.blogspot.com

Response:

I have always thought that kitten faces look like pansies.   MLB

LOL… they do! great anology! -L.

Response:

I have always thought that kitten faces look like pansies.   MLB

What a pretty comparison…you’re right, they do! I can pretty much tell what Willow is thinking by her eyelids, whiskers, pupil dilation, and ears.  Have you all seen that greeting card with 16 identical pictures of a cartoon cat?  I think each has a different emotion under it.  It cracks me up everytime I see it…astute cat slaves would be able to discern the different expressions.

Response:

Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth.

True, but I’ve found it varies from cat to cat. Basho and Issa are very good at facial expressions. One look into their eyes and you know exactly what they’re planning on doing. Xoxo is the least expressive of our bunch, perhaps because he grew up outside, without constant human contact. — Victor M. Martinez Owned and operated by the Fantastic Seven (TM)

Response:

Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

Response:

Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do.

I can pretty much tell my cats’ moods or what they want by their facial expressions.  I love the eyebrows. -L.

Response:

I think there’s a lot going on in the angle their eyelids take on.  The expression in a cat’s eyes will tell you a lot.  They’re roughly analagous to ours. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most all cats have very sweet faces and beautiful eyes, but they generally don’t seem to have facial expressions the way hoomins do. Cats seem to have better control of the snout and ears than we do, but less fine control around the eyes and mouth. Still, I think I’ve seen Betty smile and frown.  I’ve seen her express other emotions too, like contentment, surprise, curiosity, and especially love.  When she rests her chin on something, she can look a bit resigned.  When she opens her eyes wide, she can either look very earnest, or very surprised. What do cat facial expressions mean?  How do they communicate their feelings and moods to us?  I wish I knew.  I just know that they’re very beautiful and charming.

I have always thought that kitten faces look like pansies.   MLB

Response:

Question:

Yes, it does feel like a setback, but it isn’t I am also on zoloft for a year now and I also have periods where I feel depression or anxiety breaking through. I also felt I was going backwards but in time it lifted. Guess I am so thankful for what relief I do get. I keep xanex handy for those really bad days. Joan

—

Response:

I am also on zoloft for a year now and I also have periods where I feel depression or anxiety breaking through. I also felt I was going backwards but in time it lifted. Guess I am so thankful for what relief I do get. I keep xanex handy for those really bad days. Joan

Response:

In article To all:   Is it possible to revert to a panic attack after getting this much better with Zoloft?  I just went through a rough week and was having some extra anxiety…IT was like taking a step back…Now, however, it is starting to feel like I am taking the proverbial 2 or even 3 steps back…I feel very close to a panic attack…I am very scared…I thought the meds had this beat…Help! — Charles Phipps

Thanks all – I guess I should look at several weeks ago again…It’s just frustrating as even when I had bad days in the last 4 weeks, I never thought I was losing it like I thought I might last night…I guess all week I have been a little concerned with my stress level…I was determined not to let it get the best of me and did pretty well considering, but I thought since it was all over (no immediate deadlines or doc appointments forthcoming for weeks) I would feel much better again…Unfortunately, it seemed as soon as I let my guard down it got me good…I also overslept this morning and was feeling anxious (anyone else get this problem – seems if I sleep over 8 hours I get some morning anxiety)…Feeling a lot better for now, though…I am begining to think that my exhaustion and long fight with stress this week was finally too much when I let go of the fight cause I thought it was over…I looked back on the week and was concerned with the setback and thought I was reverting and I think that caused my panic…Amazing that I did better during the stress than after…Anywho, I’m still wondering if I should go up to 150 mg…Even my good days are not 100%, I seemed to have plateaued around 80%…Great, but I feel like I could squeeze out some more…However, it seems like my problem is more fear than anxiety most of the time, so I am still thinking that time and not a dosage increase is best, but I just don’t know…Anyway, it seems like I have the fears I aquired from the panic in the back of my mind, but no real anxiety or panic comes with it most days…So I don’t know that a dosage increase will help…Unfortuntaely, This sort of setback keeps my progress in check a bit… Thanks again…I really need the support right now…This is the first big setback I’ve had in many weeks… Best, — Charles Phipps

Response:

To all:   Is it possible to revert to a panic attack after getting this much better with Zoloft?  I just went through a rough week and was having some extra anxiety…IT was like taking a step back…Now, however, it is starting to feel like I am taking the proverbial 2 or even 3 steps back…I feel very close to a panic attack…I am very scared…I thought the meds had this beat…Help! — Charles Phipps

There is *no med* which is guaranteed full-proof against PA’s. There are almost *always* (not quite always) breakthrough attacks from time to time. It’s advisable to have Xanax ready for this. In case you don’t realize this: a month ago PA’s were daily occurences and now you think the Zoloft isn’t working when you feel you might be on the verge of a PA. You may call this setback but I call it *progress*! Philip

Response:

 Is it possible to revert to a panic attack after getting this much better with Zoloft?  I just went through a rough week and was having some extra anxiety…IT was like taking a step back…Now, however, it is starting to feel like I am taking the proverbial 2 or even 3 steps back…I feel very close to a panic attack…I am very scared…I thought the meds had this beat…Help!

Hi Charles, There is no med that can give you a hundred percent quarantee that you will not suffer a panic attack. Paxil has been a great med for me, however……I have had a handful of PA`s and one nocturnal PA since being on Paxil 15 months. When I was on week eight of Paxil, I suffered a minor setback, I also felt very close to having a PA. I knew what was causing the setback, and it passed. You are having a stressful week due to deadlines and doctor appoinments. Many people phobic or not would feel stressed out too. Even when I suffer a PA on the Paxil, I see improvement in the way I handle it. I only worry about it a few hours after having one, and then I forget about it, that is progress for me. As uncomfortable as you feel now, are you handling this stress any better than you would have a few weeks ago, sometimes you can see progress when you look at setbacks like that. Take care, read those posts!! Jackie "Every problem has a limited life span."

Response:

Charles, They probably withdrew less than 1% of the Zoloft you took this AM. Do not take more tonight. Chip

Response:

Zoloft is an anti-depressant not an anti anxiety medication.  If you suffer from both, sometimes you will have Panic attacks since anxiety is almost the opposite of depression.  It may also be a sign that you might be bi-polar, maybe you can look into that. Best of luck, Natasha

Response:

To all:   Is it possible to revert to a panic attack after getting this much better with Zoloft?  I just went through a rough week and was having some extra anxiety…IT was like taking a step back…Now, however, it is starting to feel like I am taking the proverbial 2 or even 3 steps back…I feel very close to a panic attack…I am very scared…I thought the meds had this beat…Help! — Charles Phipps

Response:

I have developed a bothersome twitch in my right eye when I have anxiety or even when I feel stressed.  My wife can tell when she is getting to me if my eye starts to twitch. Xanman

right as i get an attack, one eye is a bit more blurry than the other. normally my vision is the same in both eyes (-2.50).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I have had a lazy eye all my life, and I often have differences in my pupil dilation. Do you have differing vision in your eyes? ChrisH can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help. Chris Harrison – NLP Meta-Master Practitioner Nervous Systems – Action against Anxiety http://www.nervous-systems.co.uk

Response:

right as i get an attack, one eye is a bit more blurry than the other. normally my vision is the same in both eyes (-2.50). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I have had a lazy eye all my life, and I often have differences in my pupil dilation. Do you have differing vision in your eyes? ChrisH can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help. Chris Harrison – NLP Meta-Master Practitioner Nervous Systems – Action against Anxiety http://www.nervous-systems.co.uk

Response:

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I have had a lazy eye all my life,

Did you know this is claimed to be cured in childhood by vitamin E .. ? No reports of any tests after childhood though .. Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Response:

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I have had a lazy eye all my life, Did you know this is claimed to be cured in childhood by vitamin E .. ? No reports of any tests after childhood though ..

Really? Not sure I understand how. Do you have a reference for this? ChrisH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Who loves ya. Tom Jesus was a vegetarian!   http://jesuswasavegetarian.7h.com Jesus was a vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

Chris Harrison – NLP Meta-Master Practitioner Nervous Systems – Action against Anxiety http://www.nervous-systems.co.uk

Response:

can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help.

Response:

can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help.

PAs typically involve dilation of both eyes. I read somewhere that Zoloft (I think it was) can cause unequal pupil size. Chip

Response:

Sarah, I don’t think this is anything to be of great alarm to.  If you know they are linked to panic attacks (and anything is possible with an overload of stress) I would just dismiss it as that and try to deal with the panic attacks.  I have never paid any attention to my eyes during panic, I don’t think I could stand that still.  If you have serious concerns about this you may wish to see a doctor, either a eye doctor or psyciatrist or medical. But as I stated I would personally dismiss it as another side effect and not let it make me panic even more. Xanman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help.

Response:

can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help.

Hi Sarah, having had panic attack on/off for 20+ years I have never noticed whether my pupils dilated. Does it cause you some discomfort, have any affect on your vision that they remain unequal size? Is it something that other people can notice or only you can see? I was just curious what you are concerned about specifically. It has never bothered me at all, well i never even noticed it anyway but if you are really concerned have your eyes checked out to rule out any other causes. Vanessa )

Response:

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. I have had a lazy eye all my life, and I often have differences in my pupil dilation. Do you have differing vision in your eyes? ChrisH can panic attacks involve dillation of just one eye? everywhere i checked they say that both eyes dillate but in my case only the left eye does. after that i’m not certain which eye is the "bad" eye, both work ok with light but they remain unequal size for about 3 days after each attack. and they are directly related to the panic attack because i can actually see them dilate right then. help.

Chris Harrison – NLP Meta-Master Practitioner Nervous Systems – Action against Anxiety http://www.nervous-systems.co.uk

Response:

Question:

anyone else experiences a dilated pupil as sinus pressure builds? when i feel sinus pressure my ears get blocked, my nose usually gets clogged and one eye gets heavy pressure (sometimes getting blurry). the pupil also gets rather large. this usually lasts for just a few seconds but i have sinus pressure on more normal levels most of the day. does this mean that the ethmoid sinuses are the ones causing problems? after irrigating with salt water and using cortisone drops the problem happens a lot more seldom (usually after heavy eye movement).

Response:

Deb wrote:

anyone else experiences a dilated pupil as sinus pressure builds? when i feel sinus pressure my ears get blocked, my nose usually gets clogged and one eye gets heavy pressure (sometimes getting blurry). the pupil also gets rather large. this usually lasts for just a few seconds but i have sinus pressure on more normal levels most of the day. does this mean that the ethmoid sinuses are the ones causing problems?

Sounds like it. — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   Email:  sdlit…@earthlink.net

Response:

pupil dilation seems clearly related to sinus pressure attacks with me but i have no idea what mechanism would cause this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -green4…@yahoo.se (Deb) wrote in message <news:ce3c9b01.0212061634.10ac6eaf@posting.google.com

… anyone else experiences a dilated pupil as sinus pressure builds? when i feel sinus pressure my ears get blocked, my nose usually gets clogged and one eye gets heavy pressure (sometimes getting blurry). the pupil also gets rather large. this usually lasts for just a few seconds but i have sinus pressure on more normal levels most of the day. does this mean that the ethmoid sinuses are the ones causing problems? after irrigating with salt water and using cortisone drops the problem happens a lot more seldom (usually after heavy eye movement).

Response:

Question:

I don’t think that it is the sedative effect.  I was listening very hard for the t because I wanted to see how it was doing.  It just was not very loud.  I wasn’t ignoring it at all.

Response:

Thomas:  I would assume the effects would be similar to those of light doses of Prozac.  After my last trip to emergency due to thundering T, I was given Prozac that has made my T more tolerable.  gramps Thomas E. Boismier, M.P.H. wrote in message <36F2BA25.B117D…@fwi.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My guess is that scopolamine’s sedative effect makes some people less aware of their tinnitus. Major cons are drowsiness and dry mouth. BTW, the scop patch does not have to be worn behind the ear, it’s a systemic drug. We tell our balance patients (who wear the patch to aleviate nausea) that they can put it anywhere (except mucous membranes of course…) and should alternate spots when they change patches to reduce skin irritation. BuktiMukti wrote: Mazel tov, John. I’d like to hear from the pros here about the pros and

cons of

the Scopalamine patch. If it works, why so? T is a symptom of many

causes. In

what sort of scenario would this patch be most likely to work? —- Thomas E. Boismier, M.P.H. Director of The Balance Care Center, a division of Ear, Nose & Throat Associates, P.C. 347 W. Berry St, Suite 102 Fort Wayne  IN  46802

Response:

Subject: Scopolamine Patch/My Relief-Deliverance From Tinnitus From: K4…@webtv.net (John D. Perkins) Date: Thu, Mar 18, 1999 I have gone 3 consecutive weeks with NO TINNITUS AT ALL!!

Mazel tov, John. I’d like to hear from the pros here about the pros and cons of the Scopalamine patch. If it works, why so? T is a symptom of many causes. In what sort of scenario would this patch be most likely to work? Cheers, Leonard "It is the test of a good religion whether you can joke about it." –G. K. Chesterton   77

Response:

My guess is that scopolamine’s sedative effect makes some people less aware of their tinnitus. Major cons are drowsiness and dry mouth. BTW, the scop patch does not have to be worn behind the ear, it’s a systemic drug. We tell our balance patients (who wear the patch to aleviate nausea) that they can put it anywhere (except mucous membranes of course…) and should alternate spots when they change patches to reduce skin irritation. BuktiMukti wrote:

Mazel tov, John. I’d like to hear from the pros here about the pros and cons of the Scopalamine patch. If it works, why so? T is a symptom of many causes. In what sort of scenario would this patch be most likely to work?

—- Thomas E. Boismier, M.P.H. Director of The Balance Care Center, a division of Ear, Nose & Throat Associates, P.C. 347 W. Berry St, Suite 102 Fort Wayne  IN  46802

Response:

Is it recommended only for people who have T and dizziness as well. Can it be used by those who suffer only from T?

Response:

Krystyna wrote:

Is it recommended only for people who have T and dizziness as well. Can it be used by those who suffer only from T?

It’s an antiemetic, period. Of course if you look hard enough, you can find a physician who will prescribe any drug for any purpose, it’s called offlabel use. Here’s the lowdown on the scop patch (again)… (Hmmm there’s an idea, a patch that makes my breath better, the patients will LOVE that… ——————————-  Drug Name:          Transderm-Scop 1.5 mg/72hr Patch, Transdermal 72 hourGeneric Name:     Scopolamine HydrobromideInformation Title: SCOPOLAMINE – TRANSDERMAL Uses:This medication is used topically to prevent nausea, vomiting and dizziness caused by motion sickness.  How to Use This Medication:Place one patch in a dry area behind the ear at least 4 hours before the effect is required. The patch will slowly release the medication into your system over a period of 3 days.    If the patch becomes dislodged or another patch is needed, place the new patch on a clean, dry area behind the ear. Use only one patch at a time.    Wash hands thoroughly with soap and water after handling a patch. If the medication comes in contact with the eyes, blurred vision and pupil dilation can occur.  Side Effects:May cause drowsiness, headache or dry mouth. These effects should subside as your body adjusts to the medication. If they persist or become bothersome, inform your doctor.    May cause dizziness or drowsiness. Use caution engaging in activities requiring alertness.    Dizziness, stomach upset and loss of balance have been reported in a few patients after the patches were removed. This occurred most often in persons using the patches for longer than 3 days.  Precautions:Tell your doctor if you have pre-existing heart disease, glaucoma, ulcers, difficulty urinating or urinary tract disorders, high blood pressure, or an overactive thyroid.    Children are very sensitive to the effects of this medication. Use of these patches is not recommended in children.    This drug should be used only if clearly needed during pregnancy. It is not known if this medication appears in breast milk; consult your doctor before breast-feeding.    Limit the use of alcohol or other sedating type medications to prevent excessive drowsiness. For information on Medic Alert(TM) call 1-800-854-1166. In Canada call 1-800-668-1507. Interactions:Tell your doctor of any over-the-counter or prescription medication you may take including medications for depression, heart arrhythmias or Parkinson’s disease. This drug may cause an allergic reaction in patients with a history of sensitivity to the following: Anticholinergics.  Use the Interactions Checker located on the main toolbar for additional interaction information for this drug. Drug Tips & Label Warnings: May cause drowsiness.  Alcohol may intensify this effect.  Use care when operating a car or dangerous machines.It is very important that you take or use this exactly as directed.  Do not skip doses or discontinue unless directed by your doctor.Obtain medical advice before taking non-prescription drugs as some may affect the action of this medication. Dosage Information:Minimum/Maximum Adult Daily Dose:0.5 mg  (milligram) OR 0.333 Patch, Transdermal 72 hourSkin patches offer the convenience of continuous dosing. If you should forget to replace a patch at the scheduled time, replace it as soon as you remember. Do not "double-up" the dose to catch up.  Storage:Store at room temperature between 59 and 86 degrees F (between 15 and 30 degrees C) away from moisture and heat. Do not store in the bathroom.     Related Drugs:Transderm-Scop 1.5 mg/72hr Patch, Transdermal 72 hour is available by Prescription.  Below are the names and availability of other drug forms that also have the generic name Scopolamine Hydrobromide.  Some may not be available at all pharmacies, and others may be that are not listed here.  Check with your doctor or pharmacist. Transderm-Scop 1.5 mg/72hr Patch, Transdermal 72 hour – Prescription Isopto Hyoscine 0.25% Drops – PrescriptionTransderm-Scop 1.5 mg/72hr Patch, Transdermal 72 hour belongs to the class Gastrointestinal Drugs / Antiemetics. ——————- Thomas E. Boismier, M.P.H. Director of The Balance Care Center, a division of Ear, Nose & Throat Associates, P.C. 347 W. Berry St, Suite 102 Fort Wayne  IN  46802

Response:

I am John D. Perkins.  I have had T for 3 years. It began when I had some dental work done.  At the same time I was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid gland.) I promptly started taking Gingko Biloba and had accupuncture treatments. Neither of these helped my T much. I was referred to Dr. Frank Filiberto in Palm Bay and Sebastian, FL by my family dr.  Dr. Filiberto ruled out Meniere’s Disease and prescribed the Scopolamine Patch for the accompanying dizziness.  I put the patch on behind my left ear which is the only one with T. Within 2 hours my T began to decrease in volume and intensity.  I was amazed and very happy!  I follow the prescription to the letter. That was about 5 months ago.  Since that time my T has been reduced in volume and intensity so much so that I barely notice it.  I have gone 3 consecutive weeks with NO TINNITUS AT ALL!!  Two weeks ago I visited the dentist again for a routine cleaning.  The next day my T returned. After 3 weeks of no T and not wearing the patch either, I put on a new patch and within 2 hours my T was reduced to barely a whisper. That is why I wrote to Tinnitus Today.  I have received about a dozen phone calls asking about the patch.  None of these callers has ever tried the patch.  One of the callers has had T for 50 years! My new E-mail address is: K4…@webtv.net. My postal address is:  7667 N. Wickham Rd. Unit 508 Melbourne, FL  32940.  My daytime phone is (407) 242-6599.  I will be glad to speak with anyone interested.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -franco wrote:

Curious_Orange (curious_ora…@hotmail.co.uk) wrote such situations are very complicated. I wouldnt be surprised that if this woman has indeed been fantisizing about getting together with

this

bloke (and thus has been contemplating cheating on her husband) that him going off with another married woman, has only increased his attractiveness to her. I don’t know about that. On more than one occasion even before she

knew of the

affair she said that her interactions with that guy were quite

shallow (limited

to jokes, banter and stuff) which is true I admit, but which seemed

like

flirting to me (especially if u take the nonverbal signs into

consideration:

the dilated pupils,

oh really… I doubt very much you could have told whether she had dilated pupils while chatting to someone else To be honest, anyone who says they can notice such things during a normal conversation is talking out of their ar*e personally Im far to busy concentrating on the conversation. If I was looking out for pupil dilation, Id imagine Id come across as very very creepy 8-

the broad smile and the focused attention). What we talk about me and her is much deeper and involves more emotional and heady

talk. But

it’s not all serious, there is always a touch of humor and a lot of From the sounds of it.. it does seem like you have a pretty good

connection going on there…. Prior to her "declaration of love" for her hubby, did she express any previous displeasure with her marriage? If not, then it could simply be her marriage is indeed solid, and she felt things were getting a bit too close and personal between the two of you, and she needed to restate her marital status, just in case you were getting any ideas. Im sure she enjoys her conversations with you.. and perhaps much like her "shallow flirting" with the other guy, its just a nice way to pass an otherwise boring day. I suspect the "advice column" answer to your situation would be to widen your social circle, and increase the chances of finding a more suitable partner. Easier said than done for most people in here.

eye-contact, proximity and touches. And also I know that popular

psychology

states that when a man gets a woman he will seem more attractive to

other

women… This didn’t seem to apply for neither myself nor any of my

married or

engaged friends. If anything, them getting hooked seemed to take them

off the

market. I don’t think that me seeing another woman is necessarily

increasing my

attractiveness credits. I dunno really.

I have experienced that myself… being at a party with a gf, and getting lots of looks (even the odd cuddle) from other women there. All a bit confusing.. but I spose its "safe" for them to do it. If I was there as a single guy, I guess the stakes are that much higher in terms of my interpretation of such "signals"

Response:

franco wrote:

I learned that the guy whom I suspect the woman I like has a crush on, is already starting a relationship with another married woman in the office. Today I told my crush about it when we were alone on a coffee break, she was surprised a bit but not as affected as I thought. She said she never really trusted the guy (although when I was seeing her in his presence she was all flirty…). But then what bewildered me was that she was more concerned about the woman getting a divorce and how she never really showed there were problems between her and her husband. She didn’t seem to mind that the guy she was flirting with is the third person. What depressed me most is that she started praising her own husband for being a good man and that she’s in love with him (not passionately admittedly, but realistically) and everything is going good. Well it’s good to know they are good together but it’s painful. I am realizing more and more that I am appreciated ‘just as a friend’.

You know what? That happens especially if you’re interested in MARRIED WOMEN. You are deluding yourself if you believe otherwise. If you befriend a married woman, you need to realize that she feels like it’s "safe" because she’s married. She figures that since you know she’s married, you don’t have ulterior motives, and yes, she IS going to appreciate you as "just a friend". — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

franco wrote:

Right, it could also be a combination of the above three. Suggestion 2 seems quite plausible imo, but when I asked her how does that make you feel (knowing about the liaison), does it make you feel angry or annoyed or what? She said she only thinks it’s funny! I don’t know if she’s telling the truth about how she really feels. But anyway I sense that now I lost her as a potential romantic partner, at best she could be a friend. Sulk.

Once again… SHE’S MARRIED. I think you’re inventing "lost" scenarios that could never have existed. — -=Lola Fuck you and quit dogging me, asshole

Response:

In news:1108307665.544558.325480@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, franco <fra…@grex.org

wrote : x-no-archive: yes Dolores wrote: You know what? That happens especially if you’re interested in MARRIED WOMEN. You are deluding yourself if you believe otherwise. If you befriend a married woman, you need to realize that she feels like it’s "safe" because she’s married. She figures that since you know she’s married, you don’t have ulterior motives, and yes, she IS going to appreciate you as "just a friend". You don’t seem to be living in our real world. She’s married huh! Then explain to me how my collegue is fucking the hell out of a MARRIED woman (it started out as an innocent friendship)? He’s putting his dick into her vagina and ejaculating… the same place where the semen of her husband was poured in the night before.

    Do you identify with this husband who’s cheated on?

Response:

In news:ErydnZzFc-ZH-ZPfRVn-uw@comcast.com, Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com

wrote : You know what? That happens especially if you’re interested in MARRIED WOMEN. You are deluding yourself if you believe otherwise. If you befriend a married woman, you need to realize that she feels like it’s "safe" because she’s married. She figures that since you know she’s married, you don’t have ulterior motives, and yes, she IS going to appreciate you as "just a friend".

    Unless you tell her you’re a masochist…

Response:

He’s putting his dick into her vagina and ejaculating… the same place where the semen of her husband was poured in the night before.

wow…lots of seamen. must be like pirates of the caribbean in there…yohoyoho! h

Response:

she feels like it’s "safe" because she’s married.

"married" sometimes doesn’t mean much. meet married women in lez bars…regularly. h

Response:

Question:

"DudeNEPhx1971" <dudenephx1…@aol.com wrote in message news:20030902232057.14331.00000453@mb-m18.aol.com… Iam an aquarius bastard. I’d say a bitch.

 Your interesting posts brings out the Bitch in me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

AQUARIUS [JAN21-FEB19] HE is the most reasonable bastard you’ll ever encounter. He’ll even agree he is a bastard. In his mind, every viewpoint gets a hearing, every belief system has some legitimacy. And he’s likely to be annoyingly good looking too. The secret of astrology is to never be specific. If you start to be specific in astrology,you will inevitably start making incorrect affirmation. [snip from "How to Spot a Bastard by His Star Sign" book]

Response:

"DudeNEPhx1971" <dudenephx1…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20030902232057.14331.00000453@mb-m18.aol.com…

Iam an aquarius bastard.

I’d say a bitch.

AQUARIUS [JAN21-FEB19] HE is the most reasonable bastard you’ll ever encounter. He’ll even agree he is a bastard. In his mind, every viewpoint gets a hearing, every belief system has some legitimacy. And he’s likely

to

be annoyingly good looking too.

The secret of astrology is to never be specific. If you start to be specific in astrology,you will inevitably start making incorrect affirmation. [snip from "How to Spot a Bastard by His Star Sign" book] —————– from amazon com "Join the women around the world whose love lives have been transformed by the astro-guide that pulls no punches when it comes to the dark side of men and their star signs. Use it to… -Deride, ridicule, and annoy the hell out of men – Speed up the dating process by using star sign elimination – Avoid dating complete scum – Keep current boyfriends/husbands in their places – Keep conversation going at dinner parties – And much, much more! Discover who you are destined not to date… A match made in heaven or the relationship from hell? Find out which zodiac couplings are the least likely to result in derision, depression, divorce, or death! – Are you good enough for a LEO? – Can you put up with PISCES? – Will you get along with GEMINI? – Do you have the skills necessary to cope with VIRGO? Put yourself to the test with our 12 compatibility quizzes – each one carefully designed to ensure you know exactly which bastards to avoid in the future. Now men will cringe when you ask them what their star signs are! —————- Keep us informed about your sex re-assignation.

Response:

Iam an aquarius bastard. AQUARIUS [JAN21-FEB19] HE is the most reasonable bastard you

Question:

"Burrito Poderoso" <mightyburr…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:3e25c8c2.0302071258.e85a253@posting.google.com… > "LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message

<news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.

Also

what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate

the

symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution. My GF insists that taking Ecstasy twice actually ended up permanently curing a horrible depressive episode for her a year or so ago. She hasn’t taken it since. Not that I would necessarily recommend this, mind you … but that’s just what she said.

That sounds like a placebo effect. Not exactly the same, but similar happened to me. I had depression, panic attacks for about 2.5 years.  My doctor prescribed me something to tone down the anxiety that leads to a panic attack.  I took it once or twice and it helped me feel better.  I quit taking it after that. Just knowing the bottle was in the house should I need it enabled me to calm myself, breathe deeply, meditate, do relaxation exercises, etc.  I knew if that didn’t work, I could take the medicine.  I got better almost immediately. Now, I don’t know what happened with your GF.  Maybe she was at an end of her depressive episode and taking the Ecstacy was coincidental.  Maybe the little while she felt better when she took it showed her feeling better was possible, and she did the rest herself naturally.  Who knows.

Response:

stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes:

I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question."

To answer it: first of all, your brain _should_ have ample serotonin stored in reserve within neurons; it is easy to manufacture quickly and simply from trytophan, a basic amino acid which you almost certainly consume in excess of necessity.  SSRIs work on the theory that depression can be caused (somewhere in the chain) by insufficient serotonin _transmission_, not by some sort of overall serotonin deficiency. Second, suppose for some reason you had an overall serotonin deficiency.  In this case, an SSRI would increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft but decrease levels within neurons, where serotonin is produced.  This would trigger increased production of serotonin in the neurons in order to fill reserves.  Even if it didn’t, serotonin activity would be increased because in the synaptic cleft serotonin does something, whereas in a neuron it does nothing. Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t).  Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help. — Can’t we just be strangers?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." To answer it: first of all, your brain _should_ have ample serotonin stored in reserve within neurons; it is easy to manufacture quickly and simply from trytophan, a basic amino acid which you almost certainly consume in excess of necessity.  SSRIs work on the theory that depression can be caused (somewhere in the chain) by insufficient serotonin _transmission_, not by some sort of overall serotonin deficiency.

Yeah, but L-tryptophan can only be converted to serotonin if many conditions are met, eg. suffient B complex vitamins, zinc, etc., etc. It could also be a digestive problem where I’m not absorbing nutrients efficiently.  So if I’m not synthesizing serotonin in the first place, it follows that SSRIs will be useless.

Second, suppose for some reason you had an overall serotonin deficiency.  In this case, an SSRI would increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft but decrease levels within neurons, where serotonin is produced.  This would trigger increased production of serotonin in the neurons in order to fill reserves.  Even if it didn’t, serotonin activity would be increased because in the synaptic cleft serotonin does something, whereas in a neuron it does nothing.

Again, if the conditions for serotonin synthesis are not properly met, it seems logical that serotonin leves will be low no matter what, even if serotonin is prevented from going back into the neuron.

Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t).  Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help.

Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message <news:87fzquw5fd.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:878ywozx8v.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: "Serotonin levels" meaning what, the total amount of serotonin in your system?  What difference does that make?  Serotonin levels can stay the same but with more serotonin is in use and less in storage.  Just moving serotonin around has an effect.  Moreover, you can certainly produce _some_ serotonin, so if you empty out your neurons long enough they should eventually fill back up. Yeah, I think I see what you’re saying.  Serotonin levels (total amount) should eventually build up even if I’m producing very little, right?  That’s a good point.  But I do know that serotonin doesn’t stay in the brain for ever.  Maybe the rate at which it’s being produced is lower than the rate at which it’s being lost. Have you tried MAOIs?  They reduce the rate at which it is lost.

No.  There are too many interactions with other drugs and foods.

The most likely explanation, if SSRIs don’t work for you, is that depression in your case does not involve reduced serotonin activity as part of the causal chain. Yeah, you might be right.  Also, Depokote didn’t work.  I’m on Lithobid, but it’s not working either.  Strange.  I always like a good puzzle. I don’t know what kind of drugs those are.  Is Lithobid lithium?

Yes, Lithobid is lithium.  These are for bi-polar disorder.

I’m not so envious any more.  I’m sure you had a good time, but I’m not looking to get high and collapse.  450mg is a really high dose. I think 375mg is the maximum. It’s better than feeling like shit.

Yes, very true, but feeling stable is what I’m going for.

No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. I don’t see why, but whatever floats your boat.  I don’t mind a symptom-based approach, in fact I don’t even view it as treatment of some disorder in need of irradication, but just doing what makes you happy. I don’t want a quick fix because it’s not a fix. Yes but what is a ‘fix’ exactly and why does what you do need to be one?

A fix is something that actually fixes the problem.  SSRIs don’t fix the problem–they just temporarily hide the symptoms.  For example, if you’re not producing enough serotonin, instead of using an SSRI, the problem might be easily solved my taking B-complex vitamins and zinc. The SSRI just changes your mood at a superficial level–the level of the neuron.  But vitamins and a healthy lifestyle take a more holistic approach, getting at, or near, the root cause.  Of course, the "fix" is different for different people and depends on the root cause of your problem, but you get the idea.

I don’t want to feel artificially high.  I just want to feel normal. I also want something that works for a long time.  SSRIs tend not to work for a long time.  Yeah, I might feel great for a few days after taking 450mg of Effexor, but what do I do when it wears off? What do you do now?

I try to lead a healthy life.  I’ve been on a new diet, and it works wonders.  Before the diet, I only slept three hours a night.  Now I sleep 7 or 8 hours.  My shyness is nearly gone, I’m back to my assertive self, I’m not lonely, and I have an over-all sense of well being.  I still have a lot of work to do, and there’s a lot of room for improvement, but like I said: I don’t want a quick "fix".  I want a real fix. If you or anyone else is interested in a more holistic approach, I’d be happy to post the details of what I’ve been doing.

Response:

Oh, yeah.  One bittersweet thing that came out of this is that I met a really hot girl.  However, she’s there for self esteem problems and is 27 years old (although she looks more like 23 or 24).  I’m 22, so I’m not sure how much of a problem it would be. Unfortunately, my logical mind tells me to stay away from her.  She seems really nice, cute, and innocent, but I have a sneaky suspicion she might be a pandora’s box of trouble. But anyway, it felt good having such an attractive girl totally flirting with me.  It’s been a while since I’ve flirted with anyone since I’m not working and I’m not in school.  I guess she has no self esteem issues in that department.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes:

Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:878ywozx8v.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: "Serotonin levels" meaning what, the total amount of serotonin in your system?  What difference does that make?  Serotonin levels can stay the same but with more serotonin is in use and less in storage.  Just moving serotonin around has an effect.  Moreover, you can certainly produce _some_ serotonin, so if you empty out your neurons long enough they should eventually fill back up. Yeah, I think I see what you’re saying.  Serotonin levels (total amount) should eventually build up even if I’m producing very little, right?  That’s a good point.  But I do know that serotonin doesn’t stay in the brain for ever.  Maybe the rate at which it’s being produced is lower than the rate at which it’s being lost.

Have you tried MAOIs?  They reduce the rate at which it is lost.

The most likely explanation, if SSRIs don’t work for you, is that depression in your case does not involve reduced serotonin activity as part of the causal chain. Yeah, you might be right.  Also, Depokote didn’t work.  I’m on Lithobid, but it’s not working either.  Strange.  I always like a good puzzle.

I don’t know what kind of drugs those are.  Is Lithobid lithium?

I’m not so envious any more.  I’m sure you had a good time, but I’m not looking to get high and collapse.  450mg is a really high dose. I think 375mg is the maximum.

It’s better than feeling like shit.

No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. I don’t see why, but whatever floats your boat.  I don’t mind a symptom-based approach, in fact I don’t even view it as treatment of some disorder in need of irradication, but just doing what makes you happy. I don’t want a quick fix because it’s not a fix.

Yes but what is a ‘fix’ exactly and why does what you do need to be one?

I don’t want to feel artificially high.  I just want to feel normal. I also want something that works for a long time.  SSRIs tend not to work for a long time.  Yeah, I might feel great for a few days after taking 450mg of Effexor, but what do I do when it wears off?

What do you do now? — Can’t we just be strangers?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message <news:878ywozx8v.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." [...] Yeah, but L-tryptophan can only be converted to serotonin if many conditions are met, eg. suffient B complex vitamins, zinc, etc., etc.  It could also be a digestive problem where I’m not absorbing nutrients efficiently.  So if I’m not synthesizing serotonin in the first place, it follows that SSRIs will be useless. It seems to me that anything leading to an inability to synthesize sufficient serotonin would manifest itself in more serious ways than depression.  It’s possible, though.  But I still don’t think that follows, see below.

It’s not like I’m not producing ANY serotonin.  I’m just not producing enough.  I’ve also had other mental ailments besides straigh-on depression, like OCD, anxiety, etc.  OCD is closely related to serotonin levels in the brain.

Again, if the conditions for serotonin synthesis are not properly met, it seems logical that serotonin leves will be low no matter what, even if serotonin is prevented from going back into the neuron. "Serotonin levels" meaning what, the total amount of serotonin in your system?  What difference does that make?  Serotonin levels can stay the same but with more serotonin is in use and less in storage.  Just moving serotonin around has an effect.  Moreover, you can certainly produce _some_ serotonin, so if you empty out your neurons long enough they should eventually fill back up.

Yeah, I think I see what you’re saying.  Serotonin levels (total amount) should eventually build up even if I’m producing very little, right?  That’s a good point.  But I do know that serotonin doesn’t stay in the brain for ever.  Maybe the rate at which it’s being produced is lower than the rate at which it’s being lost.

The most likely explanation, if SSRIs don’t work for you, is that depression in your case does not involve reduced serotonin activity as part of the causal chain.

Yeah, you might be right.  Also, Depokote didn’t work.  I’m on Lithobid, but it’s not working either.  Strange.  I always like a good puzzle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t). Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help. Congrats.  I’m envious. =) What did this experiment entail? I took 450mg effexor 7pm Monday night.  After some number of hours I started to feel like I was coming up on tryptamines but without any remission of depression.  It kept getting better and better though, and yesterday (Wednesday) morning I had an amphetamine-like high beyond belief.  I was ridiculously full of energy and every movement produced an endorphin rush.  This lasted all day until I collapsed. Today I still feel great (I wrote this Wednesday).  I haven’t redosed since Monday (and I only have 150mg left).  Crazy shit.

I’m not so envious any more.  I’m sure you had a good time, but I’m not looking to get high and collapse.  450mg is a really high dose.  I think 375mg is the maximum.

(Update: it wore off, I guess.  My mood is so fucking irregular I don’t know what to think).

Sounds more like bipolar, but you’ve probably already looked into this.  Effoxer may have pushed you into a manic or hypomanic episode, that is if you are indeed bipolar.

I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*. Not even muscle tension, pupil dilation, nausea, etc?

I had slight nausea on Paxil.  Other than that, nothing.  

Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day. I’m not familiar with the dosage for Prozac…

Most people take 20mg per day.  80mg is for OCD, and is considered the max.  My doc just kep taking it higher and higher because I wasn’t feeling anything.  He finally said to take it to 80mg.  I figure, what the hell?  Might as well make it an even 100mg.

No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. I don’t see why, but whatever floats your boat.  I don’t mind a symptom-based approach, in fact I don’t even view it as treatment of some disorder in need of irradication, but just doing what makes you happy.

I don’t want a quick fix because it’s not a fix.  I don’t want to feel artificially high.  I just want to feel normal.  I also want something that works for a long time.  SSRIs tend not to work for a long time. Yeah, I might feel great for a few days after taking 450mg of Effexor, but what do I do when it wears off?  What would I do when I stop getting that high?  Might as well drink alcohol.  It’s better to fix the root of the problem and be done with it.

Response:

stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes:

Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question."

[...]

Yeah, but L-tryptophan can only be converted to serotonin if many conditions are met, eg. suffient B complex vitamins, zinc, etc., etc.  It could also be a digestive problem where I’m not absorbing nutrients efficiently.  So if I’m not synthesizing serotonin in the first place, it follows that SSRIs will be useless.

It seems to me that anything leading to an inability to synthesize sufficient serotonin would manifest itself in more serious ways than depression.  It’s possible, though.  But I still don’t think that follows, see below.

Again, if the conditions for serotonin synthesis are not properly met, it seems logical that serotonin leves will be low no matter what, even if serotonin is prevented from going back into the neuron.

"Serotonin levels" meaning what, the total amount of serotonin in your system?  What difference does that make?  Serotonin levels can stay the same but with more serotonin is in use and less in storage.  Just moving serotonin around has an effect.  Moreover, you can certainly produce _some_ serotonin, so if you empty out your neurons long enough they should eventually fill back up. The most likely explanation, if SSRIs don’t work for you, is that depression in your case does not involve reduced serotonin activity as part of the causal chain.

Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t). Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help. Congrats.  I’m envious. =) What did this experiment entail?

I took 450mg effexor 7pm Monday night.  After some number of hours I started to feel like I was coming up on tryptamines but without any remission of depression.  It kept getting better and better though, and yesterday (Wednesday) morning I had an amphetamine-like high beyond belief.  I was ridiculously full of energy and every movement produced an endorphin rush.  This lasted all day until I collapsed. Today I still feel great (I wrote this Wednesday).  I haven’t redosed since Monday (and I only have 150mg left).  Crazy shit. (Update: it wore off, I guess.  My mood is so fucking irregular I don’t know what to think).

I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.

Not even muscle tension, pupil dilation, nausea, etc?

Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.

I’m not familiar with the dosage for Prozac…

No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix.

I don’t see why, but whatever floats your boat.  I don’t mind a symptom-based approach, in fact I don’t even view it as treatment of some disorder in need of irradication, but just doing what makes you happy. — Can’t we just be strangers?

Response:

<stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:aa98daab.0302071654.55323d66@posting.google.com… > "LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message

<news:b1vla8$du$00$1@news.t-online.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > <stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> > news:aa98daab.0302061644.650582d9@posting.google.com… > > > "LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message

> >  <news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com

…

> > > > <stereotyp…@hotmail.com

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> > > > news:aa98daab.0302060004.55bc6834@posting.google.com… > > > > > Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> >  <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm

…

> > > > > > stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: > > > > > Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope

it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.

I

felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of

that

synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but

they

often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from

these

SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years

from

someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll

have

to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these

drugs.

AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.  Also what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get

stuck

with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?

A

couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to

alleviate

 the symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the

problem.

But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution. Yeah, exactly.  That’s my only defense of these drugs, too.  You and I must have the same exact thought patterns or something. I fear for you.  But at the same time am strangely pleased. No need to fear.  If you really do have similar thought processes as me, I know we’ll eventually both get over what’s bothering us.

Weird side note:  I had to download the Korean text support to view this post.

Response:

Visi Caulk my Pnats <o…@notnursing.com

wrote in message <news:3hi44vo8qlvf08rbf080i564sknggd7l0d@4ax.com…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

On 6 Feb 2003 00:04:29 -0800, stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote: Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." To answer it: first of all, your brain _should_ have ample serotonin stored in reserve within neurons; it is easy to manufacture quickly and simply from trytophan, a basic amino acid which you almost certainly consume in excess of necessity.  SSRIs work on the theory that depression can be caused (somewhere in the chain) by insufficient serotonin _transmission_, not by some sort of overall serotonin deficiency. Yeah, but L-tryptophan can only be converted to serotonin if many conditions are met, eg. suffient B complex vitamins, zinc, etc., etc. It could also be a digestive problem where I’m not absorbing nutrients efficiently.  So if I’m not synthesizing serotonin in the first place, it follows that SSRIs will be useless. Second, suppose for some reason you had an overall serotonin deficiency.  In this case, an SSRI would increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft but decrease levels within neurons, where serotonin is produced.  This would trigger increased production of serotonin in the neurons in order to fill reserves.  Even if it didn’t, serotonin activity would be increased because in the synaptic cleft serotonin does something, whereas in a neuron it does nothing. Again, if the conditions for serotonin synthesis are not properly met, it seems logical that serotonin leves will be low no matter what, even if serotonin is prevented from going back into the neuron. Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t).  Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help. Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs. memory loss hand tremors

Yeah, but I’m talking really long term.  Prozac hasn’t even been around for more than 15 or 20 years.  Even if it had been, I’m sure there’s not one person who’s been taking it every day since the day the molecule was invented and who could provide data for the really long term effects. It’s just unacceptable when those shrinks say we might have to take it for the rest of our lives.  They don’t even know what it’s going to do because there’s no data for the long term!!  It’s deplorable and irresponsible. I stopped taking all that shit and forced myself to take better care of my body and mind.  I’m finally beginning to feel better after a *decade* of trial and error at the hands of those "doctors".

Response:

<stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:aa98daab.0302061644.650582d9@posting.google.com… > "LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message

<news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com

…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > <stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

> > news:aa98daab.0302060004.55bc6834@posting.google.com… > > > Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

> >  <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm

…

> > > > stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: > > > Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope > > > it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, > > > Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I > > > felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that > > > synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they > > > often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. > > > Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these > > > SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from > > > someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. > > > There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have > > > to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs. > > AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! > > This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off. Also

what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate

the

symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution. Yeah, exactly.  That’s my only defense of these drugs, too.  You and I must have the same exact thought patterns or something.

I fear for you.  But at the same time am strangely pleased.

Response:

stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message <news:aa98daab.0302062247.2fd52192@posting.google.com

… problemch…@mail.com (PC) wrote in message <news:11cdc7cd.0302061349.1d96cd2a@posting.google.com… stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message <news:aa98daab.0302042054.75845d9d@posting.google.com… I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute. Hey, did you ever see that Seinfeld episode where…. oh, never mind. Oh, was that the one about the "Delicate Genius"?

I don’t know.  It was the one where he couldn’t reschedule a dentist appointment or something, and then the dentist had to cancel at the last minute.

Response:

"LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message <news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com… AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.  Also what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate the symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution.

My GF insists that taking Ecstasy twice actually ended up permanently curing a horrible depressive episode for her a year or so ago. She hasn’t taken it since. Not that I would necessarily recommend this, mind you … but that’s just what she said.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message <news:b1vla8$du$00$1@news.t-online.com… <stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message news:aa98daab.0302061644.650582d9@posting.google.com… "LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com wrote in message  <news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com… <stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message news:aa98daab.0302060004.55bc6834@posting.google.com… Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message  <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs. AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.  Also what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate  the symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution. Yeah, exactly.  That’s my only defense of these drugs, too.  You and I must have the same exact thought patterns or something. I fear for you.  But at the same time am strangely pleased.

No need to fear.  If you really do have similar thought processes as me, I know we’ll eventually both get over what’s bothering us.

Response:

On 6 Feb 2003 00:04:29 -0800, stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." To answer it: first of all, your brain _should_ have ample serotonin stored in reserve within neurons; it is easy to manufacture quickly and simply from trytophan, a basic amino acid which you almost certainly consume in excess of necessity.  SSRIs work on the theory that depression can be caused (somewhere in the chain) by insufficient serotonin _transmission_, not by some sort of overall serotonin deficiency. Yeah, but L-tryptophan can only be converted to serotonin if many conditions are met, eg. suffient B complex vitamins, zinc, etc., etc. It could also be a digestive problem where I’m not absorbing nutrients efficiently.  So if I’m not synthesizing serotonin in the first place, it follows that SSRIs will be useless. Second, suppose for some reason you had an overall serotonin deficiency.  In this case, an SSRI would increase serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft but decrease levels within neurons, where serotonin is produced.  This would trigger increased production of serotonin in the neurons in order to fill reserves.  Even if it didn’t, serotonin activity would be increased because in the synaptic cleft serotonin does something, whereas in a neuron it does nothing. Again, if the conditions for serotonin synthesis are not properly met, it seems logical that serotonin leves will be low no matter what, even if serotonin is prevented from going back into the neuron. Incidentally, my SNRI experiment Monday has turned out a smashing success.  I can’t believe it’s possible to feel this good on something that isn’t abused regularly (maybe most people can’t).  Effexor beats cocaine a hundred times over.  It’s a shame I can’t get more. Anyway, too bad they couldn’t offer you any real help. Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs.

memory loss hand tremors

Response:

stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message <news:aa98daab.0302042054.75845d9d@posting.google.com

… I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute.

Hey, did you ever see that Seinfeld episode where…. oh, never mind.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"LIS" <Lisaster…@blerg.com

wrote in message <news:b1tg2f$mtv$05$1@news.t-online.com… <stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message news:aa98daab.0302060004.55bc6834@posting.google.com… Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com wrote in message  <news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs. AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.  Also what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate the symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution.

Yeah, exactly.  That’s my only defense of these drugs, too.  You and I must have the same exact thought patterns or something.

Response:

problemch…@mail.com (PC) wrote in message <news:11cdc7cd.0302061349.1d96cd2a@posting.google.com

… stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote in message <news:aa98daab.0302042054.75845d9d@posting.google.com… I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute. Hey, did you ever see that Seinfeld episode where…. oh, never mind.

Oh, was that the one about the "Delicate Genius"?

Response:

On 5 Feb 2003 16:17:36 -0800, stereotyp…@hotmail.com wrote:

I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =)

Good for you!  Many docs think this shit is candy. It isn’t! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." And the conversation went on and on like that for 45 minutes.  He couldn’t answer my questions very well, and I got the feeling that he knew he was being totally illogical and foolish. The rest of the day I just lounged around and did almost nothing.  I played a game of Scattergories. Oh yeah, we had food that consisted of doughnuts and cookies.  Lunch was deep fried everything, but I opted for a soggy roast beef sandwich.  I got thirsty, but I had to explicitly ask for water because they offered Coke and other soda and all that crap.  What a joke.  This place was not conducive to feeling better.

I am sorry it sucked. Usually my depression is much worse in the winter months.  I mean much worse! This winter has really sucked but I am not depressed this winter.  Why? I am exercising and involved in a few activities.  It is working much better than any stupid pill ever did.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Subject: Very Apprehensive From: stereotyp…@hotmail.com Date: 2/4/03 9:54 PM Mountain Standard Time Message-id: <aa98daab.0302042054.75845…@posting.google.com I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute.  So the receptionist says that I’ll have to reschedule, and the next available appointment will be on March 3rd, an entire *month* away!  Fuck HMOs. I said "I want to see someone now."  So they have a nurse take a look at me.  It’s not like shrinks do anything but dispense pills, right? So I don’t really care. Anyway, the nurse suggests that it may be helpful, since I’m taking a break from school and I’m not working, to go to some mental helth clinic.  I can’t believe she actually talked me into it.  I don’t know what this is going to entail.  She wasn’t very specific.  One thing I know for sure, there’s no fucking way they’re putting me on any more SSRIs or any more meds, for that matter.  I feel much better without all that shit in my system. I’m not feeling that bad, but I could be feeling better, so I’ll keep an open mind.  I’m like "Sure, I’ll try it out."  I’ll have to drive an hour in rush-hour traffic to get there.  Then, it’s an hour back in traffic.  This is supposed to last for a week or two.  I’ll give it three days at the most to decide if it’s going to work for me. I just hope I won’t have to be around a bunch of crazy, screaming people.  I’ve never been in one of those places, but the thought of them always made me nervous.  I guess I’ve watched too many movies. Actually, I’m not even sure it’s one of those places.  I’m just speculating right now. Anyway, I’m very apprehensive.  Thanks for reading.

  Relax. Dont assume things. Go early so that you will avoid the traffic.

Response:

I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute.  So the receptionist says that I’ll have to reschedule, and the next available appointment will be on March 3rd, an entire *month* away!  Fuck HMOs. I said "I want to see someone now."  So they have a nurse take a look at me.  It’s not like shrinks do anything but dispense pills, right? So I don’t really care. Anyway, the nurse suggests that it may be helpful, since I’m taking a break from school and I’m not working, to go to some mental helth clinic.  I can’t believe she actually talked me into it.  I don’t know what this is going to entail.  She wasn’t very specific.  One thing I know for sure, there’s no fucking way they’re putting me on any more SSRIs or any more meds, for that matter.  I feel much better without all that shit in my system. I’m not feeling that bad, but I could be feeling better, so I’ll keep an open mind.  I’m like "Sure, I’ll try it out."  I’ll have to drive an hour in rush-hour traffic to get there.  Then, it’s an hour back in traffic.  This is supposed to last for a week or two.  I’ll give it three days at the most to decide if it’s going to work for me. I just hope I won’t have to be around a bunch of crazy, screaming people.  I’ve never been in one of those places, but the thought of them always made me nervous.  I guess I’ve watched too many movies. Actually, I’m not even sure it’s one of those places.  I’m just speculating right now. Anyway, I’m very apprehensive.  Thanks for reading.

Response:

<stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:aa98daab.0302042054.75845d9d@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I went to see my shrink on Monday, but he wasn’t there!!!  He decided to take the day off.  *I* have to give 24 hours advanced notice, but *he* can just cancel appointments at the last minute.  So the receptionist says that I’ll have to reschedule, and the next available appointment will be on March 3rd, an entire *month* away!  Fuck HMOs. I said "I want to see someone now."  So they have a nurse take a look at me.  It’s not like shrinks do anything but dispense pills, right? So I don’t really care. Anyway, the nurse suggests that it may be helpful, since I’m taking a break from school and I’m not working, to go to some mental helth clinic.  I can’t believe she actually talked me into it.  I don’t know what this is going to entail.  She wasn’t very specific.  One thing I know for sure, there’s no fucking way they’re putting me on any more SSRIs or any more meds, for that matter.  I feel much better without all that shit in my system. I’m not feeling that bad, but I could be feeling better, so I’ll keep an open mind.  I’m like "Sure, I’ll try it out."  I’ll have to drive an hour in rush-hour traffic to get there.  Then, it’s an hour back in traffic.  This is supposed to last for a week or two.  I’ll give it three days at the most to decide if it’s going to work for me. I just hope I won’t have to be around a bunch of crazy, screaming people.  I’ve never been in one of those places, but the thought of them always made me nervous.  I guess I’ve watched too many movies. Actually, I’m not even sure it’s one of those places.  I’m just speculating right now.

Hm. I’ve visited one of those places.  Been to them many times with my former (depressive psycho) husband. I don’t remember them being bad places, or like the lunatic asylums you see on television. They were a lot like psychologists offices, but with poorer patients. One thing I didn’t like, the people who didn’t have babysitters (I’m guessing) brought their children with them, and the little monkeys roared around and got on everyone’s last nerve, and some of them only had one nerve left to begin with.  :-/ Other than that, it wasn’t bad. I hope it turns out well for you.

Response:

I went today.  Complete and utter waste of time. Like I anticipated, the shrink wanted to pump me full of SSRIs, but I refused.  We had a long discussion, and my fierce and exacting logic really put him in his place. =) I was like "What good are SSRIs if you don’t have enough serotonin in the first place?"  He literally responded "Uh…I never really thought of that.  Good question." And the conversation went on and on like that for 45 minutes.  He couldn’t answer my questions very well, and I got the feeling that he knew he was being totally illogical and foolish. The rest of the day I just lounged around and did almost nothing.  I played a game of Scattergories. Oh yeah, we had food that consisted of doughnuts and cookies.  Lunch was deep fried everything, but I opted for a soggy roast beef sandwich.  I got thirsty, but I had to explicitly ask for water because they offered Coke and other soda and all that crap.  What a joke.  This place was not conducive to feeling better.

Response:

hang in there and good luck

Response:

<stereotyp…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:aa98daab.0302060004.55bc6834@posting.google.com… > Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

<news:87bs1q2m0x.fsf@homer.cghm

… stereotyp…@hotmail.com writes: Congrats.  I’m envious. =)  What did this experiment entail?  I hope it will continue working.  I tried Effexor, Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Welbutrin (not an SSRI).  It was like they gave me placebo pills.  I felt *nothing*.  Even on *100* mg of Prozac a day.  No more of that synthetic shit for me.  To me, drugs just relieve symptoms, but they often don’t get to the root cause.  I don’t want a quick fix. Another thing that concerns me is that the good feelings from these SSRIs don’t last for a long time.  The most I heard was two years from someone on Zoloft.  But what happens after two years?  It’s scary. There’s no data pertaining to the very-long-term (they say we’ll have to be taking them for the rest of our lives) effects of these drugs.

AMEN.  Hallelujah!  Preach it O’ Wise One! This is EXACTLY it, and what most doctors won’t tell you first off.  Also what the pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know.  You get stuck with side effects going on and withdrawal coming off.  And for what?  A couple years of wasted time and bogus ‘feel good’. My only defense of these drugs is, sometimes it’s necessary to alleviate the symptoms so you’re in a better state to work on the root of the problem. But these drugs aren’t meant for long term.  By no means a solution.

Response: