Question:

7.5 mcg of Caverject is a large dose, if it’s pure prostaglandin.

7.5 mcg seems to be my minimum dosage.  The documentation says that 15 to 20 mcg is the most common dosage so I assume that at 7.5 mcg I use less than the average amount.  Probably compared to the amount of prostaglandin in a dose of Tri-mix 7.5 mcg seems like allot but I assume you need more prostaglandin when it is the only active ingredient.

Response:

So I am confused here Caverject is aprostidil not prostaglandin, so how much is the average dose? I would hate to thing I would only get 2 injections for 25.00!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does the determine the right caverject dose for someone…I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 10 mcg and see what kind of results you get… any other advice.. D

Response:

So I am confused here Caverject is aprostidil not prostaglandin, so how much is the average dose? I would hate to thing I would only get 2 injections for 25.00!

Alprostadil IS Prostaglandin E1.  Same stuff, different name. Caverject is not cheap.  Tri-mix is much cheaper but I cant find it without a prescription.  The Caverject documentation says 15 to 20 mcg is average but I get away with 3 uses from a 20 mcg vial.  According to the documentation this dose would be inadequate for the majority of patients.  Really, according to Upjohn it is one use per $23 vial but I refrigerate it and get 3 uses.  Caverject is hard to justify on a cost basis.  It is just easily available.

Response:

fI don’t know where these numbers come from but from my experience and others 15-20 mcg dose of PGE-1 is very large. Typical amounts of PGE-1 in Trimix are of the order of 2 mcg (0.2 cc dose of 10 mcg/cc) or less plus the other two components.  The 15-20 mcg dose of Carverject is way too large for most men unless it is not pure PGE-1 they are talking about. I would think an average person could get 3-5shots out of 15-20 mcg. Al – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am confused here Caverject is aprostidil not prostaglandin, so how much is the average dose? I would hate to thing I would only get 2 injections for 25.00! Alprostadil IS Prostaglandin E1.  Same stuff, different name. Caverject is not cheap.  Tri-mix is much cheaper but I cant find it without a prescription.  The Caverject documentation says 15 to 20 mcg is average but I get away with 3 uses from a 20 mcg vial.  According to the documentation this dose would be inadequate for the majority of patients.  Really, according to Upjohn it is one use per $23 vial but I refrigerate it and get 3 uses.  Caverject is hard to justify on a cost basis.  It is just easily available.

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Do any insurance plans cover Caverjet?  How about Medicare? Thanks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So I am confused here Caverject is aprostidil not prostaglandin, so how much is the average dose? I would hate to thing I would only get 2 injections for 25.00! Alprostadil IS Prostaglandin E1.  Same stuff, different name. Caverject is not cheap.  Tri-mix is much cheaper but I cant find it without a prescription.  The Caverject documentation says 15 to 20 mcg is average but I get away with 3 uses from a 20 mcg vial.  According to the documentation this dose would be inadequate for the majority of patients.  Really, according to Upjohn it is one use per $23 vial but I refrigerate it and get 3 uses.  Caverject is hard to justify on a cost basis.  It is just easily available.

Response:

Al at bigfoot writes: I don’t know where these numbers come from but from my experience and others 15-20 mcg dose of PGE-1 is very large. Typical amounts of PGE-1 in Trimix are of the order of 2 mcg (0.2 cc dose of 10 mcg/cc) or less plus the other two components.  The 15-20 mcg dose of Carverject is way too large for most men unless it is not pure PGE-1 they are talking about. I would think an average person could get 3-5shots out of 15-20 mcg.

For a person with ED nerve damage, that might be a large dosage.   For someone with ED from a blood flow problem (either in, or, out), that is a normal dose. The below is a direct quote from the prescribing information copied from www.caverject.com. "The majority of patients (56%) in one clinical study involving 579 patients were titrated to doses of greater than 5 micrograms but less than or equal to 20 micrograms.  The mean dose at the end of the titration phase was 17.8 micrograms of alprostadil." A little further down it mentions that after the patients adjusted their dosage at home, "The mean dose of CAVERJECT at the end of 6 months was 20.7 micrograms in this study." Ignatz’s Bricks.

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fI don’t know where these numbers come from but from my experience and others 15-20 mcg dose of PGE-1 is very large. Typical amounts of PGE-1 in Trimix are of the order of 2 mcg (0.2 cc dose of 10 mcg/cc) or less plus the other two components.  The 15-20 mcg dose of Carverject is way too large for most men unless it is not pure PGE-1 they are talking about. I would think an average person could get 3-5shots out of 15-20 mcg.

Ignatz Bricks quoted the Caverject documentation that I based my statement off of.  I got that information strait from Upjohn.  I suspect the difference is in that tri-mix has the papavarine, phentolamine to help out.  In Caverject, the PGE-1 is doing all of the "heavy lifting" so I suspect much more is required. I barely get 3 shots out of 20 mcg and in fact combine it with Cilias or Viagra to make it work at that dosage but I think I am "in better shape" than many and according to the Caverject documentation, usually much more is required.

Response:

How does the Doctor determine the right caverject dose for someone…I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 7.5 mcg and see what kind of results you get…

Follow the instructions, I presume. Don’t forget, it requires stimulation to reach 100% erection. Inject the amount he said. If you get about an 80% erection; I would work with that. Stimulation should give you the 100%. Jerry of ASI

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7.5 mcg of Caverject is a large dose, if it’s pure prostaglandin. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – D.P. asks: How does the Doctor determine the right caverject dose for someone… I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 7.5 mcg and see what kind of results you get… Bad advice! Five minutes is too little time to wait.  On some people, it takes quite a bit longer to kick in. (Trimix also usually takes longer than Caverject to work.){ This really _REALLY_ should be done under a Dr.’s supervision, but if you insist, why don’t you read the prescribing information at http://www.caverject.com Ignatz’s Bricks.

Response:

How does the determine the right caverject dose for someone…I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 10 mcg and see what kind of results you get… any other advice.. D

Response:

Sorry I didn’t proof read the last post before I hit send.. How does the Doctor determine the right caverject dose for someone…I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 7.5 mcg and see what kind of results you get… any other advice.. D

Response:

D.P. asks: How does the Doctor determine the right caverject dose for someone… I have the10 mcg Impulse… I was told to inject 2.5 mcg and see if you have a bad reaction and after 5 min inject another 5 mcg for a total of 7.5 mcg and see what kind of results you get…

Bad advice! Five minutes is too little time to wait.  On some people, it takes quite a bit longer to kick in. (Trimix also usually takes longer than Caverject to work.){ This really _REALLY_ should be done under a Dr.’s supervision, but if you insist, why don’t you read the prescribing information at http://www.caverject.com Ignatz’s Bricks.

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Question:

snip I think that is too little time for you to have an outbreak.  Though, I could be wrong.  It is possible that you had it for quite awhile and the friction that you mention is what caused you to have your first outbreak.

snip My first symptoms came in two days. I know of a guy who had symtoms the next morning It can happen. I’d guess it all depends on how well our immune system deals with the particular virus at hand. (some of us never get flu, some get it every year…) Huk

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Hi Myst. The two minutes of oral sex isn’t the problem.  It’s the fact that you broke out within two days that’s the problem. *I’m not a doctor* I think that is too little time for you to have an outbreak.  Though, I could be wrong.  It is possible that you had it for quite awhile and the friction that you mention is what caused you to have your first outbreak. You can have herpes and never have an outbreak, until something triggers it. However, I also believe that two minutes is sufficient time to pass it on. ar

Response:

Very possible that you got this orally from an asymptomatic person, I did. Need to start meds before outbreak and if you are taking acyclovir that is not a lot of pills (3/day) – the standard 7 day treatment hasn’t  done much for me lately.  I would consult a clinic or a doctor who has been treating this  virus for awhile to get some statistics.  Consider suppression therapy alternatives, but I would ask your doctor which method has proven to be most effective for his/her patients in the long run.  Don’t be surprised if your gynecologist does know "jack" about this virus.  Consider asking your doctor if there are any treatments under clinical trials.  The answer should be yes.  (there is atleast 1 for treatment and 1 vaccine). If the doctor neglects to mention either of these, I would consider looking elsewhere.  He never knew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it was oral herpes.  How likely is it that i would get it from 2 minutes or oral sex from someone that had no obvious sores?  I know about asymptomatic shedding.  The ONE thing that convinced me that i got it from him, was that my symptoms appeared about 2 days after i was with him. That’s it!  I do remember being in a lot of pain after that night.  I guess from friction. Basically… of the 3 people i’ve been with, he would seem like the least likely person i’d get it from.  The last time i’d had sexual contact before that was in june of 1996.  (btw, this happened around april of this year).  Would it seem more statistically likely that i got it a year ago, but just this year began showing symptoms?  Or is it more likely to get it from asymptomatic contact for 2 minutes? My second question…. Eeryone has mentioned that you all take a ton of pills.  I take 400mg, 3 times a day, for 7 days.  Is this a common dosage?  I noticed, during my last outbreak, that even for awhile after the 7 days, i still had the sores.  They weren’t painful, but they were still there.  Is that normal?  or should the medicine completely wipe them out? I’m gonna go to my gynecologist this coming week.  Does anyone think i should ask for a longer regimen? (10 days?) Thanks friends! Myst.

Response:

First of all.. I’ve heard that you can have herpes for awhile without having any outbreaks.  Now… is it that you would have NO outbreaks?  Or that you’d have it, but not notice it?  My first outbreak lasted about 4 weeks (took the doc that long to diagnose it).  It was HORRIBLE.  The pain was similar to when i gave birth to my son.  In fact, i was even taking the pain killers i had leftover from then.  Anyhow…  i was convinced that i’d gotten it from my last partner.  We’d had sex 2 times.  Oral sex for a few minutes.  He was a virgin, but had oral herpes.  He never knew it was oral herpes.  How likely is it that i would get it from 2 minutes or oral sex from someone that had no obvious sores?  I know about asymptomatic shedding.  The ONE thing that convinced me that i got it from him, was that my symptoms appeared about 2 days after i was with him. That’s it!  I do remember being in a lot of pain after that night.  I guess from friction. Basically… of the 3 people i’ve been with, he would seem like the least likely person i’d get it from.  The last time i’d had sexual contact before that was in june of 1996.  (btw, this happened around april of this year).  Would it seem more statistically likely that i got it a year ago, but just this year began showing symptoms?  Or is it more likely to get it from asymptomatic contact for 2 minutes? My second question…. Eeryone has mentioned that you all take a ton of pills.  I take 400mg, 3 times a day, for 7 days.  Is this a common dosage?  I noticed, during my last outbreak, that even for awhile after the 7 days, i still had the sores.  They weren’t painful, but they were still there.  Is that normal?  or should the medicine completely wipe them out? I’m gonna go to my gynecologist this coming week.  Does anyone think i should ask for a longer regimen? (10 days?) Thanks friends! Myst.

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Question:

"Normal" dosage is pretty individual, depending on the tumor.  My spouse had brain mets and cerebral-spinal fluid mets which was treated with 8 mg/day of Dex during treatment.  Now in hospice, our cancer pain specialist suggested 12 mg/day.  We use 4 mg/day. Another side-effect my spouse suffered from, in addition to the ones mentioned in responses to your post such as depression, muscle tone loss, etc was diabetes.  It was successfully treated but was an additional problem to resolve in the middle of everything. Weaning down to zero mg/day was successful but now in home-hospice, we use Dex on a preventative basis. Regards and my best wishes to you and your wife. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife is currently on 4mg of dexamethasone 3 times daily to keep headaches at bay, does anyone know if this is a common dosage? Thanks, Charles.

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My wife is currently on 4mg of dexamethasone 3 times daily to keep headaches at bay, does anyone know if this is a common dosage?

Why would you be asking that question in a cancer support group?

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Glioblastoma is a cancer ,Don, and I think it’s reasonable to ask about meds, don’t you?  Curly gave as good an explanation as you will get, Charles. One thing I note is that you all quote divided doses, three or four times a day. Dexamethasone is quite a stimulant and hospital doctors and neurosurgeons never seem to take account of the fact that it very commonly causes poor sleeping and restlessness at night. It is the practice in hospice and palliative care work to give  the daily dose at breakfast or at the most two doses with the last dose at lunchtime. It makes no difference to its effectiveness . MIKE

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife is currently on 4mg of dexamethasone 3 times daily to keep headaches at bay, does anyone know if this is a common dosage? Why would you be asking that question in a cancer support group?

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My wife is currently on 4mg of dexamethasone 3 times daily to keep headaches at bay, does anyone know if this is a common dosage? Thanks, Charles.

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Charles.. My daughter was on a huge amount of that at one time..she was on Decadron..same thing as Dexamethasone, for 9 months..and it’s used to keep the swelling down in the brain tissue, from the tumor(s). Is she having a hard time with it? It can cause, does cause, weight gain..fluid retention..sometimes weakness in muscles..sometimes irritablility..etc. I do know, that people can take a huge amount of this stuff…hope this helps. Blessings Robin…mom to hannah,aka "wild thing".1/17/98 – 9/1/00  wife to E….the other love of my life.

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My wife is currently on 4mg of dexamethasone 3 times daily to keep headaches at bay, does anyone know if this is a common dosage?

Yes it is.  This is generally refered to as decadron, easier to spell and easier to say.  :-)   I started at 4mg 4 times per day, reduced to three times per day, then reduced to twice daily.  The doseage varies a lot.  A friend of mine was on 2mg twice daily for a while.  I’ll soon be on 2mg every second day for weaning off the stuff.  <fx: fingers crossed, eyes crossed… You don’t say why your wife is taking it, but since the most common reasons are similar to what I’ve got, I’m going to jump to a confusion <grin and tell you what I can from my perspective. What follows is based on what I’ve learned this summer.  Always check with real doctors before trusting advice from the internet!  :-/ I’m also going to simplify, so anything that is important to you, ask for more details. This is a steroid (not one that athletes use!) that has a number of uses. In my case, I had (Have?  No, but the doctors don’t know that yet.) a brain tumor.  The tumor causes various kinds of aggravation in the brain, pushing about, a little bleeding and so on.  These aggravations cause swelling in other parts of the brain some distance from the tumor.  That swelling causes symptoms based on what area of the brain it effects.   Here’s the catch 22.  Decadron has side effects (symptoms).  Everyone reacts to the drug differently, but it seems the common ones are irregularity, swelling ISTM everywhere except the brain, neuropathy (numbness in feet and hands) appettite and dizzyness.  AFAIK the *right* dose is a matter of finding the dose that does what your doctor knows is important and provides the most comfortable ballance of symptoms for the patient. I found the best way to deal with digestion was to add a couple of tablespoons of whole bran to whatever cerial I have in the morning, every single morning.  For me, that works even better than those big brown pills they give you in the hospital. <shudder   Everything else, the nurses and doctors dealt with.  When I got very bad swelling in my legs, they reduced the doseage.  The rest was mild enough to keep track of, but not worry about.   I have some links to web pages, but my bookmarks are not on this computer yet.  Ask and ye shall recieve. Hope this helps! —                         oligo 2, 6/19/2k no rsc, rad 30 8/24/2k-10/11/2k "Life is a non-renewable resource, use it well."           Send no SPAM. "Hon, am I confused? Oh, sorry miss."  http://pages.infinit.net/curlypp/

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Question:

Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :)

Actually, the hepotblastomas were found only in the mice. The rats didn’t develop them; however the incidence of fibroadenomas were decreased in the female rats. http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/LT-studies/tr439.html Nancy Unique, like everyone else

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Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :)

That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries. — begin  signature.vbs |      In the course of every project there comes a time        | |         when the best debugger is a can of gasoline.          |

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Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :) That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries.

Centuries?  Millennia!  Ever since the Evil Lord Xenu brought it to earth in his DC-8 spaceplanes.  Right, LindaG?

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Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :) That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries. Centuries?  Millennia!  Ever since the Evil Lord Xenu brought it to earth in his DC-8 spaceplanes.  Right, LindaG?

anyone ever suggested you are seriously disturbed?

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That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries.

Centuries???  Ritalin was patented in the 50’s!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :) That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries. Centuries?  Millennia!  Ever since the Evil Lord Xenu brought it to earth in his DC-8 spaceplanes.  Right, LindaG? anyone ever suggested you are seriously disturbed?

Anyone ever suggested that you can’t recognize sarcasm when you see it? — — –John Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net (used to be jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

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That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries. Centuries???  Ritalin was patented in the 50’s!

Hey, it is the discredited Feingold diet person…did you know that it has been conclusively proven that the Feingold Diet causes one to lose their ability to understand and appreciate hyperbole and sarcasm? You probably did not see the recent Discovery Channel program where they found a prescription buried in the Great Pyramid of Cheops. It was written in heiroglyphics, and was translated to ‘Ritalin’.

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anyone ever suggested you are seriously disturbed?

Nobody whose opinion matters.

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That can’t be true, since Ritalin has been used by hundreds of millions of kids for centuries. Centuries???  Ritalin was patented in the 50’s!

On _this_ planet, yes.

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So what exactly does it cause you to do?..just out of curiosity as it is something I have considered trying for ADD.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So rare have a BAD BEAT Jackpot in case it happens. . Anyone beats a particularly high hand with another high hand wins the money been accumulating in the Jackpot,  from taking a $1  from each hand dealt of that game played in a house, since the last JP was hit. No matter how infinitessimal the chances are that two people will each be dealt really high hands, in the same deal,  it happens enough that those jackpots get hit sooner or later. People dismiss the risks associated with the psychotoxic drugs, cause they are so rare. They seem to think such things only happen to other people. I know I always dismissed the rare side effects,  never took in the reality it could happen to me…until it did. I got tardive dyskenisia from Wellbutrin of all things! =- "REMEMBER THE OAK"-=  *=-And keep an eye on yer truk-=*  This post wasn’t anonymized at http://www.xganon.com

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But Ritalin will make that untrue. It is the ultimate evil drug, and is responsible for all murder, rape, war (from the Crusades on) and hang nails. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :) http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children. The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects. The National Toxicology Program concluded that Ritalin is a "possible human carcinogen," and recommended the need for further research. While still insisting that the drug is safe, the Food and Drug Administration admitted that these findings signal "carcinogenic potential," and required a statement to this effect in the drug’s package insert. However, these inserts are not seen by parents or nurses. The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that "the significance of these results is unknown," apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children. Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback. There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks. Otherwise, prescribing Ritalin constitutes unarguable medical malpractice.

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http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children. The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects. The National Toxicology Program concluded that Ritalin is a "possible human carcinogen," and recommended the need for further research. While still insisting that the drug is safe, the Food and Drug Administration admitted that these findings signal "carcinogenic potential," and required a statement to this effect in the drug’s package insert. However, these inserts are not seen by parents or nurses. The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that "the significance of these results is unknown," apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children. Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback. There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks. Otherwise, prescribing Ritalin constitutes unarguable medical malpractice.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children. The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects.

This is old news. The FDA letter of January, 1996, said this, in part:     The study in rats revealed no cancer-causing activity.  The     findings in mice included increased rates of a non-cancerous     liver tumor (hepatocellular adenomas) and, in males only, the     occurrence of malignant liver tumor (hepatoblastomas).     FDA considers the results of the studies a signal of a weak     cancer-causing potential for this drug, based on the following:      – The positive findings were seen in one species of rodent     (the mouse) and in only one organ — the liver — which is known     to be particularly likely to develop tumors to a wide variety of     stimuli.      – The increased rates were seen primarily in non-malignant     tumors.      – There was no increase in mortality associated with the     tumors.      The agency also noted that animal studies do not necessarily     reflect human findings. The kind of liver tumor found in mice is     extremely rare in people, and its occurrence in recent years has     not increased despite the increased use of Ritalin. The report of the study itself is at http://ntp-server.niehs.nih.gov/htdocs/LT-studies/tr439.html. Interestingly, female rats in the study displayed a lower incidence of mammary gland fibroadenomas (a type of breast tumor) than in the control groups. With regard to the claim of "dosages close to those prescribed to children," that is, quite simply, a lie.  The dosages administered to the test rats ranged to 150 mg/kg per day.  To put that into perspective, a 30 kg child (66 lbs) would be receiving 4,500 mg (4.5 GRAMS!) of methylphenidate hcl per day–not the 15-60 MILLIGRAMS that is the common dosage for both children and adults. It has become clear to me over the years that those people who are so stridently opposed to the use of medications like methylphenidate resort to hysteria and outright lies like those in this little screed for one simple reason: they have no facts or data. When you have no facts or data, what else is left, but lying? Joe Parsons

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It has become clear to me over the years that those people who are so stridently opposed to the use of medications like methylphenidate resort to hysteria and outright lies like those in this little screed for one simple reason: they have no facts or data. When you have no facts or data, what else is left, but lying?

Or illogical beliefs. I have seen this in many other areas, like people clueless about the safety and benefits of vaccines or the uselessness of homeopathy (or distilled water, some thing). I hadn’t heard about the essentially non-existant risk of liver cancer from Ritalin. Thanks for pointing out this is basically a red herring that has shown to not be a risk. All the best, Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Parsons

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Thank you for this articulate and very timely article. As more and more parents wake up to this HUGE scandal, there is going to be a backlash against the pharmaceutical-industrial-complex. Yes, there IS going to be hell to pay, and I for one want the Facts and Truth to get out there so everybody can make intelligent and moral choices.    I predict this will spell the end of this and other mind-numbing drugs and the end of phony spin-dromes that are making America’s children nothing but zombies and automatons.   We will win the War against Truth Terrorists, and this is a fine place to start.  Let us all be soldiers for justice, democracy, free-will and free-thinking people! Carry on and at ease, Sir Arthur – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children. The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects. The National Toxicology Program concluded that Ritalin is a "possible human carcinogen," and recommended the need for further research. While still insisting that the drug is safe, the Food and Drug Administration admitted that these findings signal "carcinogenic potential," and required a statement to this effect in the drug’s package insert. However, these inserts are not seen by parents or nurses. The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that "the significance of these results is unknown," apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children. Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback. There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks. Otherwise, prescribing Ritalin constitutes unarguable medical malpractice.

Response:

Did you know that hepatoblastomas of the type seen in Rats and Mice on this study have never EVER been seen in humans in the history of medicine? Interesting, hunh?  :)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children. The mice developed a statistically significant incidence of liver abnormalities and tumors, including highly aggressive rare cancers known as hepatoblastomas. These findings are particularly disturbing as the tests were conducted on adult, rather than young mice which would be expected to be much more sensitive to carcinogenic effects. The National Toxicology Program concluded that Ritalin is a "possible human carcinogen," and recommended the need for further research. While still insisting that the drug is safe, the Food and Drug Administration admitted that these findings signal "carcinogenic potential," and required a statement to this effect in the drug’s package insert. However, these inserts are not seen by parents or nurses. The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that "the significance of these results is unknown," apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children. Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback. There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks. Otherwise, prescribing Ritalin constitutes unarguable medical malpractice.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It has become clear to me over the years that those people who are so stridently opposed to the use of medications like methylphenidate resort to hysteria and outright lies like those in this little screed for one simple reason: they have no facts or data. When you have no facts or data, what else is left, but lying? Or illogical beliefs. I have seen this in many other areas, like people clueless about the safety and benefits of vaccines or the uselessness of homeopathy (or distilled water, some thing). I hadn’t heard about the essentially non-existant risk of liver cancer from Ritalin. Thanks for pointing out this is basically a red herring that has shown to not be a risk.

enough of a risk for the manufacturer to warn of on the label it would seem Its easy to be cavilier unless you are one of the small proportion of people to whom it applies All the best, Jeff Joe Parsons

Interview with John Nash: How Does Recovery Happen? I don’t really know because I think you have individual experiences. Statistically it is not so rare for persons to come out of real mental illness and become normal thinkers again. Records of this go back, before any type of medical treatment, any type of drug treatment. And one curious fact about that is the statistics on that is that the existence of the drug treatment perhaps has not increased the proportion of people who really recovered from mental illness so that they reach a state of not needing drugs and not being in a sort of semi-disabled state.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It has become clear to me over the years that those people who are so stridently opposed to the use of medications like methylphenidate resort to hysteria and outright lies like those in this little screed for one simple reason: they have no facts or data. When you have no facts or data, what else is left, but lying? Or illogical beliefs. I have seen this in many other areas, like people clueless about the safety and benefits of vaccines or the uselessness of homeopathy (or distilled water, some thing). I hadn’t heard about the essentially non-existant risk of liver cancer from Ritalin. Thanks for pointing out this is basically a red herring that has shown to not be a risk. enough of a risk for the manufacturer to warn of on the label it would seem

Joe’s detailed, fact based, discussion of the so-called cancer risk is clear and shows that there is no ‘warnable’ risk. Did you read the study, and understand the numbers? If you still maintain that a warning is required, then you should also insist that Ritalin be sold with a statement that it may protect females from certain types of breast tumors. Its easy to be cavilier unless you are one of the small proportion of people to whom it applies

Who was being cavalier?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – http://www.add-biofeedback.com/cancer.html Ritalin Can Cause Cancer AAP Guidelines for Treating Behavioral Disorders in Children with Ritalin Ignores Evidence of Cancer Risks By Samuel S. Epstein, M.D., Chairman of the Cancer Prevention Coalition Based on an industry-funded multi-university trial on 282 pre-teen children treated with Ritalin for attention deficit/hyperactivity disorders (ADHD), just published in Pediatrics, the American Academy of Pediatrics has endorsed the use of the drug. However, the Academy ignores clear evidence of the drug’s cancer risks of which parents, teachers and school nurses, besides most pediatricians and psychiatrists, still remain uninformed and unaware. Some 40 years after the drug was first marketed by Ciba Geigy, carcinogenicity tests were conducted at the taxpayers expense by the National Toxicology Program, the results of which were published in 1995. Adult mice were fed Ritalin over a two-year period at dosages close to those prescribed to children.

what’s that? a 1,000:1 ratio in terms of mg per kilogram? dose a kid at 5,000 mg MPH and yeah, I’d expect problems. … The Physicians’ Desk Reference admits evidence on the carcinogenicity of Ritalin, now manufactured by Novartis, qualified by the statement that "the significance of these results is unknown," apparently not recognizing that this is more alarming than reassuring. Apart from cancer risks, there is also suggestive evidence that Ritalin induces genetic damage in blood cells of Ritalin-treated children.

what would that evidence be? Concerns on Ritalin’s cancer risk are more acute in view of the millions of children treated annually with the drug and the escalating incidence of childhood cancer, by some 35% over the last few decades, quite apart from delayed risks of cancer in adult life. These risks are compounded by the availability of alternative safe and effective procedures, notably behavior modification and biofeedback.

Rather than post this propaganda, this is really an empirical question. Go into every cancer treatment facility and question about prior use of ritalin. My prediction is that the data will mirror the rate at which ritalin is prescribed–if 5% get prescribed, my bet is that 5% of the cancer patients will have a history of use. But, in any event, it’s an empirical question that’s testable and does not deserve the propagandish presentation as done here. There is no justification for prescribing Ritalin, even by highly qualified pediatricians and psychiatrists, unless parents have been explicitly informed of the drug’s cancer risks.

What are those risks? It is an empirical question and deserves an empirical answer.  Does the use of ritalin raise your risk by 50%, 5%, .5%, .05%, or what? — It isn’t really important to decide when you are very young just exactly what you want to become when you grow up. It is much more important to decide on the way you want to live.                      Golda Meir (1898-1978)                       Israeli Prime Minister http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm

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Question:

I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems.

I take 160 mg LA Inderal and have had no problems from LC but I should explain that while I do LC I do not strictly adhere to any set diet so it might be different for those who follow a strict Atkins regimen. I just try to keep my carbs to a minimum – usually less then 20 a day. I never did induction. It seemed too rigid for me and I read where Dr Atkins said it speeds things up but it would work without it. And it does. I am not the kind of person who would be happy measuring salad greens. LOL  

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If you are maintaining less than 20 a day, you are in permanent "induction." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I take 160 mg LA Inderal and have had no problems from LC but I should explain that while I do LC I do not strictly adhere to any set diet so it might be different for those who follow a strict Atkins regimen. I just try to keep my carbs to a minimum – usually less then 20 a day. I never did induction. It seemed too rigid for me and I read where Dr Atkins said it speeds things up but it would work without it. And it does. I am not the kind of person who would be happy measuring salad greens. LOL

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Isn’t there anyone here using beta-blockers???!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems. I am 56, 6′3", 230lbs. I have read that beta-blockers like Propranolol can reduce some of the results of the Atkins diet.  I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems. Any comments on how to handle this situation? Thanks, Bob

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems. I am 56, 6′3", 230lbs. I have read that beta-blockers like Propranolol can reduce some of the results of the Atkins diet.  I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems. Any comments on how to handle this situation? Thanks, Bob

I have taken 60mg of the beta blocker propranolol 2 X’s a day for several years for a heart problem and also for HTN (high blood pressure). <snip I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems. <snip

I am not sure what you mean by *problems*. One of the uses of this medication is to *treat* HTN. My drug reference book says the common dosage for treating HTN is 120-240 mg/day. I have lost 47 #’s on Atkins since Jan 03. My doctor is not concerned about my taking this beta blocker. It is stated that the beta blockers can slow wt loss but we have to take the meds that are prescribed for our specific health concerns and take the wt loss as follows. Maybe our wt loss will not be as fast as others who are not taking some of the drugs mentioned in Atkins but we will get there in the long haul. Definetely talk this over with your doctor but mine said *for me* there was no concern. The area that I see that might be a concern for you is the fact that most people’s blood pressure goes down while following this WOE. Mine was 148/92 prior to starting this WOE and yesterday at the doctor’s it was 100/70. So bottom line if you do not have a blood pressure issue and you are taking propanolol for your heart condition and eating LC, I suggest that *you* make sure that your blood pressure is checked regularly. This can be done at the doctor’s or at the drug/grocery store on one of those Health Wise Stations. Possibly ask the doctor at what reading do they consider it an issue. In doing this you will know when you take a reading at one of those stations if you need to make a doctor’s appointment. Hope this gives you some insite to the med. CarolnPhx LPN

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"gyrobob" wrote … I have read that beta-blockers like Propranolol can reduce some of the results of the Atkins diet.  I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems.

I was on propanolol for ectopic(sp?) heartbeats, 10mg three times a day. Basically my heart kind of loses a beat then jump starts itself – but not once or twice a day like most people’s but 70 or 80 times a day – it’s basically an anxiety thing.  As you can probably imagine, it gets to be a bit of a pest after a while.  When I started Atkins I discussed it with my doctor, and he said as long as I felt OK I could skip the medicine.  HOWEVER, that has always been his advice to me about that medicine, and your doctor may have very different advice to you. — Lexin www.redrosepress.co.uk www.livejournal.com/~lexin (300/276/182)

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I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems.

I don’t think you can know what will happen until you try – but I’d talk to your doctor about it first.  He may want to monitor your progress, which was my doctor’s position.  He wants me back to him a minimum of every three months, and has said that next time I go he’s going to want blood tests, which means (where I live) traipsing down to the hospital. Deep sigh. To give you some hope: I have to use a topical antibiotic, and antibiotics are suspect in stalling some people, but so far it hasn’t had any effect on my results. Long may that continue! PMR.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems. I am 56, 6′3", 230lbs. I have read that beta-blockers like Propranolol can reduce some of the results of the Atkins diet.  I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems. Any comments on how to handle this situation? Thanks, Bob

Hi Bob, My only advice is to check with your doctor about this. I know this isn’t exciting advice, but as it is your heart we are talking about, it’s best to be careful! Good luck! Meg — Mind the Gap… their clothes are made by 3 year old Korean kids. Unknown/Unknown/I’ll know when I get there

Response:

I want to start the Atkins diet.  I take 10mg of Propranolol (brand name Inderal) four times a day for mild atrial fib.  I have no blood pressure problems. I am 56, 6′3", 230lbs. I have read that beta-blockers like Propranolol can reduce some of the results of the Atkins diet.  I have also read that taking a beta-blocker while on the Atkins diet can cause blood pressure problems. Any comments on how to handle this situation? Thanks, Bob

Response:

Question:

Gordon<<Actually, according to forn the Clinical Handbook of Psychotropic Durgs, Bezchlibnyk-Butler et al, etidors, Hogrefe & Huber; the time to peak plasma level of Xanax is 1-2 hours and the half life is 9-20 hours. What I read in the PDR was different.  I’ve long thought (felt) that waiting 8 hours between doses was too long; felt it was wearing off after about 6-1/2 hours.  What the PDR said reaffirmed my experience (of 15 years); though I can’t quote from it here (read the PDR at work and I’m at home now). As they say, YMMV.

Response:

HI Diana-in response to your advise re. taking  xanax. If your dr. prescribed 0.5mg 3 times a day, try to comply. Also 1.5mg/day is actually a mild dosage compared to what many others take. (some take up to 4-6mg a day) I don’t know when you started taking the xanax, but its the one med. that I found that works almost immediately. It is absorbed into your system quickly and then it gets out of your system via the kidneys. I have taken xanax for over 16 yrs. and have consistently been on the same dosage(2mg daily). I also take a beta blocker for a mild heart condition and the combination works really well. I too become agoraphobic when I am getting ready to go somewhere. I break up the tablets into little bits so that it stays in my system constantly(my dr. suggested this rather than taking the whole pill each time. Maybe you can try this so that you don’t feel like you said, "comatosed". Everyone reacts different to xanax and as you continue to take it, through trial and error, you’ll know how much to take and when. (Always ONLY take what’s been prescribed. Also , if you miss a dose, don’t  double up when its time to take it again, because in your case, you’ll really feel strongly sedated. I hope I was of help. Good Luck.

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My doc, when first prescribing Xanax, advised me to take my first pill while sitting on the sofa with nothing to do for a few hours… so I would "know" how it was going to affect me at first.  Had a nice little nap that day I took only Xanax for many years, at the same dosage that you have been prescribed.  My doc said this was a very common dosage.  It served me very well, and after the first couple of days I had no noticable drowsiness or other side effects. If you plan to take Xanax long-term, please do some research regarding dependency and withdrawal.  Other than that, hope it works as well for you as it did for me. Matoaka

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I can understand your apprehension (part of the disease also).  I have taken Xanax and still do as needed.  It does work well for anxiety and the action is quick…but only lasts a couple of hours.

Actually, according to forn the Clinical Handbook of Psychotropic Durgs, Bezchlibnyk-Butler et al, etidors, Hogrefe & Huber; the time to peak plasma level of Xanax is 1-2 hours and the half life is 9-20 hours. Dr. Shipko is fond of saying that a good rule of thumb is to figure that 25% of any Xanax dosage is still in your system after 24 hours. If interested, the web source for a Benzo Equivalence Chart showing comparative dosages, time to peak plasma level and half-life is of a dozen or more benzo’s is: http://uhs.bsd.uchicago.edu/~bhsiung/tips/bzd.html Gordon Held

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I am agoraphobic but I do go out on my own with a limit of about 3 miles.  I am usually a little tense during the day anyway even at home.  I was prescribed 0.5mg xanax 3 times a day.  I wonder if that’s an average dose or will it put me to sleep for the rest of my life if I take it as prescribed???

LOL! Don’t worry, we’ll find a prince to come and awaken you with a kiss ) You’re actually prescribed a low dose. Average therapeutic dose is anywhere between 2 and 6 mgs and occasionally even more. Our reactions to meds are very personal so it’s a matter of trial and error to assess which dose is right for you but nothing bad will happen to you. A certain degree of drowsiness may well occur in the beginning (not unpleasant at  all) but is almost always of a passing nature. Xanax is a first choice for PAD and is a safe and well-researched med. Seriously I’m curious.  Is anyone else taking only xanax for the symptoms I described?  I get the feeling most people take other meds too.  I haven’t yet taken the xanax as prescribed so I wonder.  I’ve taken one to sleep at night so I don’t know what happens, and once I took three pretty close together and I was nearly comatose by the time I got to my destination 1 hour away.  That made me afraid.

Don’t take 1.5 mgs pretty close together, I’d say… your body obviously told you that. It’s a matter of fine-tuning. Many people are on Xanax only, often for years and with good results.  Comments?? Thanks all. Diana the chicken-heart

Philip (award winning med phobic taking 2.5 Xanax + imipramine)

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I am agoraphobic but I do go out on my own with a limit of about 3 miles.  I am usually a little tense during the day anyway even at home.  I was prescribed 0.5mg xanax 3 times a day.  I wonder if that’s an average dose or will it put me to sleep for the rest of my life if I take it as prescribed???  Seriously I’m curious.  Is anyone else taking only xanax for the symptoms I described?  I get the feeling most people take other meds too.  I haven’t yet taken the xanax as prescribed so I wonder.  I’ve taken one to sleep at night so I don’t know what happens, and once I took three pretty close together and I was nearly comatose by the time I got to my destination 1 hour away.  That made me afraid.  Comments?? Thanks all. Diana the chicken-heart

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I can understand your apprehension (part of the disease also).  I have taken Xanax and still do as needed.  It does work well for anxiety and the action is quick…but only lasts a couple of hours. This is what I would suggest…..start out with one dose and see how you feel. Then, if you have no negative effects (such as totally zonked out)…begin, gradually, to increase your dosage to what the dr. recommended.  That way you will have some control over how you feel.   As far as negative side effects, I have taken it for years (not as many times a day, however) and have never had any bad side effects. My heart is with you…..I did not go out of the house alone for two years….real torture.  Now, I can manage my life to some degree, but still have periodic times of total anxiety. Good luck.   Regards, Pat

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Question:

Nobody has told anyone to quit a drug such as Xanax "Cold Turkey"!

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Response:

Nobody has told anyone to quit a drug such as Xanax "Cold Turkey"!

Hello AKEMO, All the literature I have read advises quitting xanaz slowly. The only difference would be how slowly. I took 7 months to go from 1.5 mg / day to 0. Regards, John Daly

Response:

Hello GREGYUZIUK, May have been a typo, as .5 mg a day is a common dosage. Then it may not. The PDR indicates 10 mg a day as the maximum recommended dosage. I have only heard of 2 people taking more than 5 mg a day, so it is pretty rare. Regards, John Daly

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(GREGYUZIUK) writes:

That is not an unusual dose for severe PD sufferers.  6mg a day is what I was prescribed but only take 3mg because that is all I needed to control my PA’s.  Different strokes for different folks! Cyndie

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, this is a fact. I’ve been through it, time and time again! I had been taking .5mg 3x a day off and on for about 5 years. I’d try and quit on my own, cold turkey! NO FUN!! I was unable to sleep, my anxiety level was about 50-75% worse. I can understand the need for the medication, however, if you are going to try and quit you have to be weened off. I wound up back in the hospital because the withdrawls were so bad! Then the DR. put me on a combination of different meds to try and ween me off. None of them had an effect, so I went on a combo of Xanax and Paxil! The DR. told me that taking the Paxil alone would increase your anxiety level. Now I’m happy to say, I’ve been taking Melatonin and it’s been the best thing for me yet! And if you don’t believe it when people tell you how addictive this drug is, try quitting cold turkey and you’ll go through HELL and back again! The preceding message is not intended as a RANT, just info to let people aware of what "I" went through.

Hi,    I’m new to the group so maybe I’m out of line but I wanted you to know my experience with melatonin. I took 3-9 mg. at least several times a day for 2-3 years. I was also taking a beta blocker for migraines ( a very tiny dose).It may be coincidence but I became depressed during this time.It was also during this time that I began to experience anxiety attacks. I have since seen many postings and have read a couple of articles relating depression with melatonin. I am now on an antidepressant (6 weeks now). I may not yet be stabilized on it yet but I was feeling great for about a week and then I took Melatonin and now after a week of feeling down and anxious I feel I’m stating to feel better.          Take care,  Elisia —

Response:

I don’t understand. If you take Xanax regularly to keep yourself panic-free, it’s only to be expected that you’ll grope for the Xanax when you wake up, as it has a half-life of about 6 hours. The anxiety you suffer is not something caused by being hooked on the drug, it’s the anxiety which got you taking it in the first place. I expect people with other conditions grope for their drug on waking, asthma sufferers for example. When taken as needed this early morning groping is unlikely to occur however. Sorry, I forgot to say IMO. Fred

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does

<clip To all who have read this RUBBISH and feel concerned please check out http://pharminfo.com/ and check under Xanix for information about this drug or ask for a photocopy of the drug’s pharmacology (about 2 pages) where you usually pick up your prescription. Idiots who post misinformation like the above in an obvious attempt to frighten others should themselves be afraid…be *very* afraid… aka Mitch from PCS, P.O. Box 206   |  the daughter Moreland, Victoria, AUSTRALIA 3058 |  of time." Aardvark Internet Tel: 03 9886 3800|  (c) Anon

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin.

What??? These anti-medication people are always coming out of the woodwork. Those who are against medication have never suffered from anxiety problems and/or are exceedingly mis-informed. I have said it before: No one needs to feel guilty for taking a medication that relieves their disorder. _______ Robert F. Beck

Response:

Hey, this is a fact. I’ve been through it, time and time again! I had been taking .5mg 3x a day off and on for about 5 years. I’d try and quit on my own, cold turkey! NO FUN!! I was unable to sleep, my anxiety level was about 50-75% worse. I can understand the need for the medication, however, if you are going to try and quit you have to be weened off. I wound up back in the hospital because the withdrawls were so bad! Then the DR. put me on a combination of different meds to try and ween me off. None of them had an effect, so I went on a combo of Xanax and Paxil! The DR. told me that taking the Paxil alone would increase your anxiety level. Now I’m happy to say, I’ve been taking Melatonin and it’s been the best thing for me yet! And if you don’t believe it when people tell you how addictive this drug is, try quitting cold turkey and you’ll go through HELL and back again! The preceding message is not intended as a RANT, just info to let people aware of what "I" went through.

Response:

OOPS! Sorry I didn’t mean to say I took Melatonin several times a day. I only took it once a day!    Elisia —

Response:

I just saw this thread on the board and I don’t know what it’s all about.  But I would implore "anxious" readers to take this Aussie (and his attitude problem) with a big grain of salt regarding Xanax (which you may have noticed he even misspelled!). I take 5.0mg/day of Xanax.  It is great stuff, but it is indeed highly addictive, and cold-turkeying off the stuff can result in seizures!  All the "reputable" literature out there says this .  Mr. IDIOT from Australia is feeding misinformation on the wire here.  Harmful misinfo.!  Beware! — Alexander

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(John ) writes: ‘THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. ‘ ‘That is the mechanism of control.’  - from Technique 88    Ron Hubbard – Founder, ‘Church’ of Scientology.

WOW!  I just got a quick education on the Church of Scientology!  Wonder why so many movie stars and such are in it?  Weird. Cyndie

Response:

<a wise riposte to stupidity pruned to enhance new season’s growth If I’m wrong in my reply,  I know you’ll all let me know.  I can take it, right or wrong.  But, again, this is only MY OPINION.

And in *my* opinion, you’re 100% right, John. You’ve saved me the hassle of typing a reply to this numbskull because you’ve said almost exactly what I’d have done. — Gary "another sad Xanax-junkie" Cooper

Response:

Unfortunately Michael, some of us will be on Xanax for the rest of our lives.  Panic is something that is of a biological nature, and therefore, if your body needs what is in Xanax, then so be it.  It is just the same principal as being diabetic, for instance.  The insulin that your body makes isn’t enough to satisfy your body’s needs, therefore you must add more to get to a healthy level.  As is the case of Xanax.  If the chemicals that you are missing are available in Xanax, why should you not take them if they alleviate the problem?? Debbi

Response:

Michael    Firstly it’s Alprazolam. Secondly, it’s as Mally says. I find Xanax the only helpful drug for panic attacks apart from alcohol. It’s better than alcohol in that (i) you’re not intoxicated or stupefied (ii) it doesn’t smell on your breath so no one need know (iii) it doesn’t cause hangovers and all the other side-effects of alcohol. I still like the odd drink by the way. The effect of Xanax is mild. Nevertheless if you take it habitually you need to taper off slowly, if you really insist on giving it up. I gave up Oxazepam suddenly without ill effect. I’m not recommending that, but it wasn’t the hell for me that is alleged. How can anyone equate Xanax with heroin? My sister in law, a senior nurse, told me I should stop taking antidepressants because I did it just to feel the same as everyone else. I was lost for words at her ignorance then muttered "Exactly". But she didn’t understand. Fred

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack. I think that you believe you are being helpful.  But you are posting misinformation that can frighten a lot of people.  Nothing in the above paragraph is accurate.  Many of us on asap take Xanax on an as-needed basis and can very easily go for days, weeks or months between doses. You’ve been reading too much propaganda put out by the   Church of Scientology. If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem. Absolute nonsense!! If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety. The only statement you make that comes close to being accurate is the last one! Before you hit that send button, consider carefully the impact of what you post on those who are vulnerable and frightened. I DO hope that you are not simply trying to stir up a flame war! Mally  

Mally, I found a signature at the end of a message I was reading and couldn’t help but think it needed a home, in addition to the place it was.  I think I found the spot in your reply that pretty well hits the nail on the head.  I’ll be the first to admit I didn’t know much about the Church of Scientology, but, I did go to the SOURCE listed in the signature and educated  myself, a little.  From what I read, It seems they have absolutely no belief in medicine or doctors for cures or help of any disorder or illness.  They put the medical profession down, altogether, and totally rely on brainwashing their followers. This is ONLY MY OPINION, from the limited time I had to read the massive information provided at this web site and many links on the subject.   I have never had, nor would I accept (from the knowledge I have, even, at this point)  the chance to set down to a personal chat or play a game of pool or socialize with MR. RON L. HUBBARD in any way, but,  I guess, I read enough to feel this fit here.   I hope this post is not in the style that will attract religion flames. I am a new poster to this group and I sure have no intentions of doing that.  I couldn’t see where this was a religion of any kind,  IMO,  it is a cult following.  Scares me!   Anyway..  Here is the signature line.. You can see what you think. Return the Liars Club, 3-RRR Melbourne http://suburbia.net/~fun/scn/ ‘THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. ‘ ‘That is the mechanism of control.’  - from Technique 88     Ron Hubbard – Founder, ‘Church’ of Scientology. John

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey.

I’m a little late in responding to this post—it showed up late on my news server.  Also, I needed to take the time to think, and to read others’ reactions.   I think you meant well with this post, but we need to make some major and minor adjustments here and there to make it more accurate. If a PD sufferer has no history of substance abuse, he/she is not likely to abuse Xanax.  Many people are very conscientious about maintaining the minimal effective dosage, some going below what the doctors recommend.  It is not "addictive," in the sense that the person who has been on it *can* choose to come off of it and live without it, but he/she will have to deal with the possible consequences of being unmedicated, i.e., suffer from relapse.  People DO come off of Xanax, and some stay off of it, but others have to go back on it, because the underlying pathology, Panic Disorder, is still there.  Going back to Xanax doesn’t mean that that person is "addicted," but that he/she still requires treatment for the PD. Quitting Xanax cold turkey *can* be very uncomfortable and unpleasant, and is not a good idea.  But I wouldn’t go as far as say that it is "extremely dangerous," which would imply that it would possibly result in fatalities.  I’m not aware of any fatalities subsequent to a person quitting Xanax cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years.

I don’t know exactly how long it has been on the market, but it can be *very* helpful in alleviating symptoms of PD. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

Side effects like heroin?  Could you cite the source of that "information," be it research, hearsay, or whatever?  When you make a statement like that, if you provide the source of that info, it gives more credibility to your posting. I think what you’re trying to say here is that if the serum levels of Xanax drop below the therapeutic level, you can have "rebound anxiety" resulting from insufficient amount of the drug in your system.  It is the underlying panic surfacing, not low levels of Xanax "causing" a panic attack. If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem.

It probably has dropped below therapeutic levels.  As we all know, Xanax (and other benzodiazepines) causes physiological, as well as psychological dependence.  It is a "problem" in that the dosage should be maintained to prevent withdrawal symptoms as well as keep panic under control.  The alternative to taking Xanax, for people who find it helpful, is life without Xanax, which is life filled with anxiety and PAs.  It is unfortunate that Xanax causes physiological and psychological dependence, but that is the nature of benzodizepines.  Comparing Xanax to heroin is not appropriate, because heroin is used for recreational purposes, while Xanax is used to help improve the quality of life of PD sufferers (as always, there are probably those few who use it for purposes other than panic).  Heroin is known for its illicit use in producing euphoric effects.  I don’t know of any therapeutic applications of heroin. If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety.

There are certainly lots of medications out there that can be used in place of Xanax.  If they work, great.  But Xanax is always there if others fail to work. Panic maybe the ultimate manifestation of anxiety.  In my case, once I start feeling anxious, it can gradually escalate to a full-blown PA (but not always—it can come from out of the blue), which leads me to believe that anxiety and panic are just different gradations of the same emotion. Andre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Michael Dudek Professional Thinker

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

I was prescribed this drug about 2 years ago.  I have been taking it daily ever since.  I have never experienced any of the type of reactions you have stated above.  I am not always punctual about taking my medication as prescribed, either.  I’m not necessarily saying that you are wrong, but, I’m saying if you have medical evidence of what you are saying, quote the source!  Make sure if it is JUST AN OPINION, that the readers of this NG understand that it is JUST THAT…,  AN OPINION.     If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem.

Again, did this happen to you??  I have never heard of this symptom, either, at least not for this reason.  What is your source??    If, and usually when,  a person has a PA while on Xanax, it is a because they are still suffering from the same disorder that they were prescribed the Xanax for, in the first place,  not the lack of the Xanax  in the blood. (By the way, what is the "theraputic level" [correctly spelled therapeutic]  of Xanax in the blood supposed to be??  Are you making this shit up as you go??) If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  

We all know that different people have different reactions to many types of medications.  We know that meds that work great for some, don’t work at all for others.  We further know that these medications are not CURES.   I’m also quite sure that anybody in this NG is here to find out as much GOOD information as they can, about the disorder they suffer.  I’ m quite sure most are familiar with talking with their doctors if their medication isn’t working for them. ( I can only speak for myself, but, I have been to so many doctors and hospitals and had more tests in the past years, than I care to talk about.   I’m sure from the reading I’ve done in the ASAP NG that there are many people out there that have been where I have been and probably beyond.) Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety.

This is the closest you came to an actual true statement, IN MY OPINION. (see how I did that??)   PANIC AND ANXIETY ARE VERY REAL!! When you post shit like you did here, with no sources listed, you are fucking with REAL PEOPLES LIVES, WITH VERY REAL PROBLEMS!! (Excuse my language, but, this kind of crap really pisses me off and it doesn’t belong in this NG, especially the WAY it was posted!, in my opinion.) It’s not some damn game.. IT’S VERY REAL!!  Think before you post!! On my NG reader there is a CANCEL button in addition to the send button! My understanding, is that panic is directly associated with anxiety in most cases and most people suffer from both at some time or another, along with many other symptoms.   All I know for sure is that I haven’t found all of the answers to my problems yet and I really appreciate a NG, such as this, to HELP me, not hinder my hope for a better life.  I have found, for the most part, exactly that in ASAP. Michael Dudek Professional Thinker

If I’m wrong in my reply,  I know you’ll all let me know.  I can take it, right or wrong.  But, again, this is only MY OPINION. John

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

Hello, Please cite source for "side effects like heroin" and "addictive as heroin". Regards, John Daly

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

[snip-snip] FYI: The generic name for Xanax, at least in the United States, is Alprazolam, not Alzolapram, as you stated in the subject line. Couldn’t resist… Thanks, — ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` Luis Echeverria       `  Interviewer: "So Frank, you have long hair.  ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `                Does that make you a woman?"   ` ` Orange County, CA     `                that make you a table?"        ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `

Response:

I find your story very scary. Not a good idea to throw this in a group of panic sufferers. But I have heared from my doctor exactly the same. That is why I refuse to use that. I only take medications like Prozac and Seroxat which work only after a few weeks for me. I have a box of oxazepam but I haven’t used any of them yet. I am really scared of it. Maybe I will take it when nothing else helps and I am in terrible shape. I also believe that it works different for everybody. Addiction is not allways nessecary. If it helps you, don’t let it stop you. Maybe there is an other person in this newsgroup who can tell more about this or can tell from experience. Hilde

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

PEEEEE-EEEEWWWWW!  Does something smell bad in here? Are you a heroin addict?  Have you known anyone addicted to any street drug? I will say that Xanax *can* be addictive and it *can* be dangerous to quit cold turkey — but this is not necessarily true for everyone.  I will also concede that some Xanax users suffer "rebound" anxiety when they miss a dose — albiet not in the manner you describe. Many people have already read about my "experiment": I was taking 3 1/2mgs/day Xanax and quit cold turkey for a week. (NOT one of my better ideas)  The first day, nothing happened.  The second and third days I was nauseous, jittery, trembling, having *extremely* vivid dreams (if I got to sleep at all) — but no PA’s.  The 4th through the 7th days I had the same symptoms — but they were decreasing rapidly.  I was glad to get back on after the week was over and found that I could just as well on a lower dosage. If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem.

What a bunch of hooey…. If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety.

Why didn’t you just post this last part and leave out the rest? Michael Dudek Professional Thinker (But not very good at it)

–Tony

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack. If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem. If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety. Michael Dudek Professional Thinker

Response:

To all: Please be carefull with the usage of this drug. It is addictive as heroin–and extremely dangerous if you quit cold turkey. Yes, it does stop or help aleviate Panic and has been on the market for about 12+ years. Within the last 5-6 years, it was discovered to have side effects as like heroin. After you have been on xanax for a while — and let’s say that you are slightly late in taking your dose– the blood levels of xanax has dropped and this will CAUSE a panic attack.

I think that you believe you are being helpful.  But you are posting misinformation that can frighten a lot of people.  Nothing in the above paragraph is accurate.  Many of us on asap take Xanax on an as-needed basis and can very easily go for days, weeks or months between doses.  You’ve been reading too much propaganda put out by the Church of Scientology. If when you wake up in the morning and you are having a panic attack–it is most likely do to the fact that your xanax blood level has dropped below theraputic levels and are actually "craving" xanax–which means that it is now a physiological problem not a psych. problem.

Absolute nonsense!! If this occurs–talk to your physician about alternative medications that will releive the panic.  Panic is real–and quite different than anxiety.

The only statement you make that comes close to being accurate is the last one! Before you hit that send button, consider carefully the impact of what you post on those who are vulnerable and frightened. I DO hope that you are not simply trying to stir up a flame war! Mally  

Response:

Question:

I was wondering if anyone else is like me?  I get my period on my own every month, but it’s on a pattern.  one month it’s around 21 days, the next it’s around 40, and it’s been that way for a long time.  

I used to get periods every 32 to 54 days (a few times it was shorter, once I skipped 3 full months)… that was ages 12-20… Then when I got married I started taking the bcp, had bad side effects and after getting off the pill I only had a period about once or twice a year (usually induced by Provera, rarely on my own)…. until this period after the 2 mths on Metformin, I finally had a period on my own…  We’ll see if this continues in the months to come….

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

God Bless You  <*(((

<      

Carrie   ;o)~    from Oklahoma Carrie’s Home Page (PCOS) http://hometown.aol.com/cbraly2000/home.index.html For info. on treatment of PCOS with the drug Metformin go to this site… http://www.ivf.com/pcostreat.html

Response:

I was wondering if anyone else is like me?  I get my period on my own every month, but it’s on a pattern.  one month it’s around 21 days, the next it’s around 40, and it’s been that way for a long time.  What’s wierd, is that on my long cycles, right in the middle, I spot for around 4 or 5 days.  I have an appointment in December with a new RE, but my family doctor seems to think that I’m only ovulating during my shorter cycles.  Any opinions on what’s going on? I also don’t have any ovarian cysts, but have all of the other symptoms of PCO (which is good because that’s what I’ve been diagnosed with )  Thanks for listening… Yolonda

Response:

What is your dosage?  I’m on 500mg 3 times a day.

 I am on 2000 mg a day (I take 2 in the morning, and 2 in the evening)… I was going to do the 1500mg a day like you, but the doc said I could take 2000mg (I had thought to just take 1500mg, since I read it was the common dosage for treating PCOS)… but I kept forgetting to take them, so 2 twice daily is easier to remember for me….

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God Bless You  <*(((

<      

Carrie   ;o)~    from Oklahoma Carrie’s Home Page (PCOS) http://hometown.aol.com/cbraly2000/home.index.html For info. on treatment of PCOS with the drug Metformin go to this site… http://www.ivf.com/pcostreat.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CBraly2000 wrote:

After a little over 2 months on Metformin I finally just got my period… (Not that I enjoy cramps, bloating, etc.) It’s definately a miracle since before the Metformin I had only been getting a period once or twice a year at most… usually with Provera, rarely on my own.  That gives me lots of hope for the Metformin to really make a difference with my PCOS.  WOW, to think I actually ovulated on my own this month… thank God I didn’t get pg (not that pg is a bad thing, I know many of you have been waiting a long time… but I have a 9 mth old clomid baby and I’m not ready to be pg again so soon… I am always hoping and praying that all you who want to conceive will do so very soon). Anyways… I never would have believed that I would ever be happy to get my period (I’m sure the exxcitement will be short lived, once I start bloating and cramping) <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< God Bless You  <*(((< Carrie   ;o)~    from Oklahoma Carrie’s Home Page (PCOS) http://hometown.aol.com/cbraly2000/home.index.html For info. on treatment of PCOS with the drug Metformin go to this site… http://www.ivf.com/pcostreat.html

This is certainly encouraging news!!!  I started Metformin Oct. 8.  My RE started me on Provera to get AF 3 weeks later.  I’m supposed to go for prog test 12/7.  I hope I have good news to report too!  What is your dosage?  I’m on 500mg 3 times a day. Nicole —

remove ‘devnull’ from my email address to reply <—

___________________________________________________________________________ ___

Response:

After a little over 2 months on Metformin I finally just got my period… (Not that I enjoy cramps, bloating, etc.) It’s definately a miracle since before the Metformin I had only been getting a period once or twice a year at most… usually with Provera, rarely on my own.  That gives me lots of hope for the Metformin to really make a difference with my PCOS.  WOW, to think I actually ovulated on my own this month… thank God I didn’t get pg (not that pg is a bad thing, I know many of you have been waiting a long time… but I have a 9 mth old clomid baby and I’m not ready to be pg again so soon… I am always hoping and praying that all you who want to conceive will do so very soon). Anyways… I never would have believed that I would ever be happy to get my period (I’m sure the exxcitement will be short lived, once I start bloating and cramping)

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

God Bless You  <*(((

<      

Carrie   ;o)~    from Oklahoma Carrie’s Home Page (PCOS) http://hometown.aol.com/cbraly2000/home.index.html For info. on treatment of PCOS with the drug Metformin go to this site… http://www.ivf.com/pcostreat.html

Response:

Question:

Hi Jack. My wife gets Demerol shots to use for her severe migraines when all else fails. I know you discourage this, I’ve read your article on your website. My question is: What else could one use that would act as quick and effectively? I’m worried as she is developing much scar tissue around her rump from all the injections. She’s also taking Mscontin which isn’t helping all that much. It’s funny but the demerol shot is the most effective since it eases the migraine right down for a day or two. Thanks for any suggestions and thanks for your previous info links you e-mailed me. Richard the Hubby

Response:

Hi Richard, ****I’m worried as she is developing much scar tissue around her rump from all the injections**** This is one of the problems associated with demerol. It is extremely irritating to the tissues and with repeated injections scar tissue, sterile abscess formation and sloughing of tissue can occur. I’ve administered anesthesia to several people who abused injectable demerol (they were addicts, not pain patients). We performed debridement of the dead tissue and also skin grafting to the affected area. Meperidine (demerol) is an agonist opioid with additional effects including anticholinergic (dry mouth, blurry vision which is usually associated with IV injection, and increased heart rate), local anesthetic (there have been cases where meperidine was used as the sole agent for spinal anesthesia). The anticholinergic effects are not likely to improve pain relief associated with the use of this medication. So, if meperidine offers no advantage over other opioids, why is it she obtains better relief with the use of this drug? There are several possibilities including;     1) a more effective doses of an opioid is more likely to be administered IM than by mouth. Why? Because many health care providers are focused on the DOSE of the drug as opposed to the actual EFFECT. Let’s use demerol as an example. The most common dosage used for IM injections of demerol is 75 – 100 mg. If this provides adequate relief, administering a 75 – 100mg by mouth will not provide the same degree of relief as the IM injection. Why not? It’s the same amount of medication. With the oral route, the drug is absorbed in the small intestine and must pass through the liver before being carried to the brain and other tissues. This "first pass" phenomena decreases the actual drug available to provide pain relief by as much as 66%. So, a 100mg oral dose of demerol only provides analgesia equivalent to 33mg of injected demerol. You said your wife takes oral morphine with less than adequate results. It may be that she needs to have the dose increased. The most common reason a dose of opioid doesn’t provide adequate pain relief is the dose isn’t adequate. Also, if you compare immediate release morphine with injected meperidine, we run into the "first pass" phenomena as well as the improper calculation of an equivalent dose of oral morphine. For example:     – Let’s say 100mg of injected morphine provides good pain relief, the equivalent oral dose for immediate release morphine would be approximately 30mg. It’s very common for oral medications to be ordered in inadequate amounts as a result of not understanding the pharmacological properties of the medications.     2) A "placebo effect" may also have some impact on the analgesia when the demerol  is injected. No, I’m not saying your wife is "crazy" or lying. Many times, because a person has received good pain relief from an injection as opposed to a pill, the act of injection may trigger endorphin release in anticipation of the pain relief. Has your wife been properly diagnosed? It’s not uncommon for migraines to be misdiagnosed. Here is a good site discussing migraines from diagnosis to treatment. http://www.migraines.org/treatment/treatmis.htm Here is an extensive list of articles and up-to-date info concerning migraine headaches and treatment. http://www.pslgroup.com/MIGRAINE.HTM#News A possible replacement medication for the demerol might be fentanyl. It comes in a "lollipop" form called Actiq. Because fentanyl is highly soluble in fat, it is absorbed quickly through the mucus membranes of the mouth. It’s almost as fast as IV injection and faster than intramuscular injection. If the MD orders this, PLEASE be sure they are kept out of the reach and site of children. Depending on their age, one of this suckers could lead to an overdose. Also, chewing and swallowing the "candy" will in all likelihood reduce the pain relief obtained since it’s designed to be absorbed through the mucus membranes of the mouth. If swallowed, the first pass phenomena comes into play. http://pslgroup.com/dg/41cf2.htm Maxalt Shows Fast Relief Of Migraine Pain And Nausea This is a wafer that is devolved on the tongue and requires no water to be used. It provides relief faster than the injectable medications used for migraine. http://www.pslgroup.com/dg/ad3ea.htm If your MD is reluctant to order the Actiq, then ask about switching from demerol to dilaudid. Many folks will say, "That’s an awfully powerful drug for migraines." Give me a break, dilaudid, morphine and demerol are all considered full opioids. I’m amazed at times how the health care professionals fall back on misinformation concerning opioids. If demerol is appropriate for your wife’s migraines, then so is dilaudid. I hope this info is useful. Let me know if I can do anything else. Good Luck. Jack

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Jack. My wife gets Demerol shots to use for her severe migraines when all else fails. I know you discourage this, I’ve read your article on your website. My question is: What else could one use that would act as quick and effectively? I’m worried as she is developing much scar tissue around her rump from all the injections. She’s also taking Mscontin which isn’t helping all that much. It’s funny but the demerol shot is the most effective since it eases the migraine right down for a day or two. Thanks for any suggestions and thanks for your previous info links you e-mailed me. Richard the Hubby

Response:

Question:

I just ordered mine from my online pharmacy with my insurance carrier.  If I get something else I’ll post it.  It didn’t say anything about Pentasa being changed but personally if another brand is available and not brand I would not complain.  I pay a fortune for my meds but at least if I go to my insurance companies website and order through their pharmacy I get a three month supply of them  for the cost of a two month.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking about Pentasa, I just came from the Pharmacy where I was going to get my prescription refilled and was told that Pentasa is no longer available and it was substituted with SALOFALK Anyone else aware of this or hear of anything.. Cheers Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is? I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

I just picked up my refill of Pentasa today from my pharmacy in the U.S.  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Speaking about Pentasa, I just came from the Pharmacy where I was going to get my prescription refilled and was told that Pentasa is no longer available and it was substituted with SALOFALK Anyone else aware of this or hear of anything.. Cheers Hi,  Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

I pay a flat 3.00 for any prescription and a lot of the time, the Doc writes it for a couple of months at a time and it stills goes through.  I just noticed on my Comundin that it is for sixty tabs and I only take one a day. I take so many meds that I am very thankful that it costs me so little. Mary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just ordered mine from my online pharmacy with my insurance carrier.  If I get something else I’ll post it.  It didn’t say anything about Pentasa being changed but personally if another brand is available and not brand I would not complain.  I pay a fortune for my meds but at least if I go to my insurance companies website and order through their pharmacy I get a three month supply of them  for the cost of a two month.  UM MOM Susan Speaking about Pentasa, I just came from the Pharmacy where I was going to get my prescription refilled and was told that Pentasa is no longer available and it was substituted with SALOFALK Anyone else aware of this or hear of anything.. Cheers Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is? I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

I’ve taken 1000/4 times a day for a 1 1/2 years and was told that was the max amount and to try reducing it to 1/2 that if possible so long as I did notice any problems. I see where some one else said they are on 3000/day  ,so your best bet would be checking it with your DR or pharmacy .I wouldn’t worry about the amount you are taking.

Response:

Hi there,     Well, I have just had this same dose for about 4 weeks, in my case is because of Ulcerative Colitis, my med said me that it’s the double of the "normal" dose, but it’s just a prevention and it doesn’t have any bad thing in it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess.  I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess.  I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

hi brandy, yyyyyyyup, that is a pretty common dosage.  that is what mine was when i took it. jeff

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

Brandy don’t worry so much  I have been on Pentasa now for around two years with no difficulties at all with it.  I think you will be fine.  If you are still worried, maybe you should contact your dr and or pharmacist and see if they can allow you to relax a bit about taking this med.  Good luck! UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

Brandy, That was the dose I was started on when I was first diagnosed.  Since my surgery to remove my stricture my GI has put me on a maintenance dosage of 3000 mg a day.  High dosages of Pentasa are needed to reach therapeutic levels and maintain them in the bloodstream.  mgbio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess.  I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response:

 Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is

Dear Branndy:    You are NOT being paranoid.  You are simply taking the steps needed to learn more about your disease, how to control it better and how to be sure you are not being over medicated.  Very smart, in my book.  Anyway, here is where I show my ignorance.  I am truly unsure what the mg is per capsule, but I do know that I have to take four of those puppies, twice a day. They are some big ugly dark/light green capsules.  I would really hate it if I had to take more than that.  Don’t know if I have helped you but if you write back, you may be able to help me on mgs on this pentasa.  I am on 16 different meds and this one  is the only one I don’t know the mgs on!  Go figure! LOL!   Well take care and try to stay well.  I’m here if you need me.   Margie CD Class of 67 UC Class of 96

Response:

Speaking about Pentasa, I just came from the Pharmacy where I was going to get my prescription refilled and was told that Pentasa is no longer available and it was substituted with SALOFALK Anyone else aware of this or hear of anything.. Cheers

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,   Sorry I am being so paranoid, and asking all these questions.  I already have an ileostomy.   I am just wondering what the normal dose of pentasa is?  I started taking it today.  1000mg 4 times a day.  I’m just scared I guess. I don’t want anything else going wrong I am only 22.  You guys help me so much with everything you say.  I really appreciate it. Thanks again, BRANDY

Response: