Question:
… but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
The bi-polar thing is becoming un-bearable. (polar bears that is). My experience is that when in depressed mode most bi-polars can barely function much less adjust the temperature in their $7000 Jacuzzis. When manic, they get so high that they are very grandiose, superior, intolerant and know it all (like me <G). Ari appears to be pulling our appendages. When I was depressed deeply, I couldn’t have even used my keyboard. When I was manic, I was out spending. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
– Diva "There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure." Eleanor Roosevelt
Response:
… but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild.
Damn right! If I’d known support groups could be this wild, I would have taken a look earlier. BFN. Paul.
Response:
You know, I’ve been through depression myself. While I know that it wasn’t the same as bi-polar, I have read a little on the subject. Many of Ari posts are manipulative and filled with half-truths and exaggerations. It is hard to imagine someone who is truly suffering from bi-polar disease having enough presence of mind to keep track of all the stories and different aspects of her "life". She seems to have a real need for attention, and to be more important than others. Constantly mentioning the travel, the money she has, the "things" she owns, her IQ, her schooling, all point to someone who is really confused and unhappy. At the same time wanting to be more important, she must also be "the victim". Not only is she ill from bi-polar disease, she can’t lose weight, she is depressed, her husband wants a divorce, her father was/is mean to her, her brother is mean to her, her yoga instructor abused her, she struggles with drinking and pot smoking, she is most likely infertile but uses birth control anyway, and on and on and on it goes. This little drama is just that…a make believe drama. She’ll drop out of sight for a little while, then when there is fresh blood here, she’ll be back sucking the life out of them. Doing a long search on Google for her posting names will pull up posts at least back to 1996, with all the same kind of crap. Melissa
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
You know, I’ve been through depression myself. While I know that it wasn’t the same as bi-polar, I have read a little on the subject. Many of Ari posts are manipulative and filled with half-truths and exaggerations. It is hard to imagine someone who is truly suffering from bi-polar disease having enough presence of mind to keep track of all the stories and different aspects of her "life".
Granted, I haven’t been here for long, but from what I’ve seen I imagine Ari is wanting to get some attention from others about her problems, some validation that her situation is as bad as it feels to her, and simultaniously wants to maker herself feel better than people by discussing what she thinks are her positive attributes. I know a lot of people who have some sort of self-loathing about one issue or another (or several) and flip-flop between talking about what terrible people they are/how they haven’t lost any weight/whatever their issue is is only getting worse and between talking about how well they’ve done, how great they are, how much progress they’ve made. Usually both sides are exaggerations of the true situation. This may or may not be directly related to her bi-polar depression. She is creating drama which may be false in some cases, but I don’t think it should be brushed aside; she has a need to do that, which is a sign of her emotional difficulties. I do think she’s legitimately bi-polar and don’t think she’s just trying to manipulate asd maliciously. Bi-polar depression can be very different in its manifestation than normal clinical depression, so I don’t think we can say "I was depressed and I wouldn’t have acted like this" as a way to suggest she isn’t (I’m not saying you, Melissa, or anyone specifically was doing this, it’s just a thought.) And remember that paranoia is a very common symptom. Her behaviour seems very in-line with the disorder. — james 213/192.6/180 (for now, at least) use z at eristocracy dot net to email
Response:
I have been lurking on this newsgroup seriously for about 6 months and read all of the postings – it’s pretty clear now when Ari cycles up and down. I agree fully Liz, that ignoring her is the best solution when she gets into an attention-seeking mode. There are times she can be very positive, full of optimism, contributes and is friendly. And then the tide turns. My mother was bi-polar and I know the signs of the cycles well. Ignoring her on the downslopes is probably best for the collective sanity of the group and perhaps, just *perhaps* Ari may actually learn from her behavior one of these days and start to take responsibility for herself. We can only hope. Squeezle
<snipped very valid points – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
My whole point, I guess, was that it doesn’t matter if she’s really bipolar or not or if there’s something else going on. She "plays" us, whether maliciously or not, and it’s not appropriate behaviour. Being bi-polar explains some of it but I don’t think it excuses it, especially when she refuses to take her treatment seriously. She pretends to have money, exaggerates her education, gives several variations on the story about her husband and we’re not supposed to notice the discrepancies – we’re supposed to "support" her. I just don’t think it’s good to reinforce that. For us, because it will just go on and on, and for her, because it encourages more lying and "drama" and falling back on an illness as an excuse. I don’t mean to minimize the pain she’s going through – I think it’s very real. That’s the problem – it’s not going to get better this way. It’s too bad, because when she keeps it together long enough to hold down a job for a while and interact socially she’s probably great to be around. But until she gets things together and takes her treatment seriously, not to mention her relationships, it’s going to be more of the same and she is not going to get better. Encouraging her "victim mentality" isn’t going to help. LizB
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know, I’ve been through depression myself. While I know that it wasn’t the same as bi-polar, I have read a little on the subject. Many of Ari posts are manipulative and filled with half-truths and exaggerations. It is hard to imagine someone who is truly suffering from bi-polar disease having enough presence of mind to keep track of all the stories and different aspects of her "life". Granted, I haven’t been here for long, but from what I’ve seen I imagine Ari is wanting to get some attention from others about her problems, some validation that her situation is as bad as it feels to her, and simultaniously wants to maker herself feel better than people by discussing what she thinks are her positive attributes. I know a lot of people who have some sort of self-loathing about one issue or another (or several) and flip-flop between talking about what terrible people they are/how they haven’t lost any weight/whatever their issue is is only getting worse and between talking about how well they’ve done, how great they are, how much progress they’ve made. Usually both sides are exaggerations of the true situation. This may or may not be directly related to her bi-polar depression. She is creating drama which may be false in some cases, but I don’t think it should be brushed aside; she has a need to do that, which is a sign of her emotional difficulties. I do think she’s legitimately bi-polar and don’t think she’s just trying to manipulate asd maliciously. Bi-polar depression can be very different in its manifestation than normal clinical depression, so I don’t think we can say "I was depressed and I wouldn’t have acted like this" as a way to suggest she isn’t (I’m not saying you, Melissa, or anyone specifically was doing this, it’s just a thought.) And remember that paranoia is a very common symptom. Her behaviour seems very in-line with the disorder. — james 213/192.6/180 (for now, at least) use z at eristocracy dot net to email
Response:
"Paul Edwards" wrote Damn right! If I’d known support groups could be this wild, I would have taken a look earlier.
Absolutely. Talk about bitter twisted melodrama … it’s better than any soap.
Response:
I think your heart is very much in the right place Liz, and your candid sharing has certainly given me a fresh perspective. Del
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
Playing people (maliciously or not) and pretense that you described below *is* a part of bi-polar depression. Not to say all bi-polar’s do this, but my late BF and 1 of my 3 bi-polar relatives had/have done what Ari did recently. And more than once over the years. From the way Ari has been acting lately (here and in alt.support.divorce), I think she probably is off the meds or they haven’t been working. The nature of the bi-polar disorder isn’t the same for everyone who has it. You have your high-functioning BP’s (like 2 of my 3 bi-polar relatives and my late BF’s father). Then you have other people who are rapid cyclers like Ari and my late BF and my other relative. They generally don’t respond to treatment very well or consistently stay on meds. I don’t know Ari well enough, but some of the rapid cyclers can also be violent like my relative. You are right that it’s not appropriate behavior and this goes on and on and on (for years, too), but that’s a part of the disorder. For example, since she had arrived here last year, how many times have "we" been over this? It does not matter one whit if you do or don’t encourage her "victim mentality". They do exactly as they please, so to speak. Since we are on USENET and there is nothing we can really do about Ari, you might as well ignore her. You can’t expect her to "listen" to us to "shape up" and "go in for treatment". They tend not to listen very well to orders, advice, or suggestions, either, "not if they don’t suit them." L 66lb loss maintained since May 1996
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My whole point, I guess, was that it doesn’t matter if she’s really bipolar or not or if there’s something else going on. She "plays" us, whether maliciously or not, and it’s not appropriate behaviour. Being bi-polar explains some of it but I don’t think it excuses it, especially when she refuses to take her treatment seriously. She pretends to have money, exaggerates her education, gives several variations on the story about her husband and we’re not supposed to notice the discrepancies – we’re supposed to "support" her. I just don’t think it’s good to reinforce that. For us, because it will just go on and on, and for her, because it encourages more lying and "drama" and falling back on an illness as an excuse. I don’t mean to minimize the pain she’s going through – I think it’s very real. That’s the problem – it’s not going to get better this way. It’s too bad, because when she keeps it together long enough to hold down a job for a while and interact socially she’s probably great to be around. But until she gets things together and takes her treatment seriously, not to mention her relationships, it’s going to be more of the same and she is not going to get better. Encouraging her "victim mentality" isn’t going to help. LizB
Response:
Not to say that this is the same, but I think it can be said for any disorder and this is the only thing I’ll say on this topic because I don’t know much about bi-polar except that mood swings are huge. My nephew has asperger’s syndrome (it’s a form of autism). My sister uses this as the excuse for all his behaviour and treats him differently than everyone else because of it. Granted, some of the things he does (like test echoes by hooting like an owl or screaming) are asperger things, but some of the things he does is because he’s a 9 year old boy! I guess my point it yes.. Ari is bi-polar. But it’s not an excuse for everything she does in life. She must at some point become an adult and deal with the situation. No one can help her even though we’ve all tried. I agree with others… just ignore her. — 275/257/150 For Pics and updates –http://www.cplusfatty.freewebspace.com/diet.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think your heart is very much in the right place Liz, and your candid sharing has certainly given me a fresh perspective. Del … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
Lots of people have mental problems but think because they never get them diagnosed they "don’t exist."
so true, so true! — read and post daily! rosie http://www.geocities.com/barrettetc/rosie.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My whole point, I guess, was that it doesn’t matter if she’s really bipolar or not or if there’s something else going on. She "plays" us, whether maliciously or not, and it’s not appropriate behaviour You really cannot control another person’s behavior, you can only control your own. You also can’t be "played" without your permission. We all know this, we just need to be reminded from time to time. In is natural to want to respond and say something when you feel you have some insight into a situation. When you respond once or twice and see that it makes little difference, then just don’t bother the next time. I don’t know what else could be said that has not been said. People change when they are ready to change and if they have a medical condition to deal with, well, that makes it all the harder. I suffer from chronic depression and I have been under a doctor’s care and on meds for this since 1985. I no longer feel stigmatized by my diagnosis but can use what I know about it to deal with my moods. Lots of people have mental problems but think because they never get them diagnosed they "don’t exist."
Response:
My whole point, I guess, was that it doesn’t matter if she’s really bipolar or not or if there’s something else going on. She "plays" us, whether maliciously or not, and it’s not appropriate behaviour
You really cannot control another person’s behavior, you can only control your own. You also can’t be "played" without your permission. We all know this, we just need to be reminded from time to time. In is natural to want to respond and say something when you feel you have some insight into a situation. When you respond once or twice and see that it makes little difference, then just don’t bother the next time. I don’t know what else could be said that has not been said. People change when they are ready to change and if they have a medical condition to deal with, well, that makes it all the harder. I suffer from chronic depression and I have been under a doctor’s care and on meds for this since 1985. I no longer feel stigmatized by my diagnosis but can use what I know about it to deal with my moods. Lots of people have mental problems but think because they never get them diagnosed they "don’t exist."
Response:
they appear to have a similar cyclic problem, apologizing, posting bright news for a bit, going off track and complaining, and then lashing out for attention when anyone disagrees with them.
that behavior is not all that unfamiliar in this — read and post daily! rosie http://www.geocities.com/barrettetc/rosie.html
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The bi-polar thing is becoming un-bearable. (polar bears that is). My experience is that when in depressed mode most bi-polars can barely function much less adjust the temperature in their $7000 Jacuzzis. When manic, they get so high that they are very grandiose, superior, intolerant and know it all (like me <G). Ari appears to be pulling our appendages. When I was depressed deeply, I couldn’t have even used my keyboard. When I was manic, I was out spending. Ari posts with the same kind of cycle as DesertWind (the My Pretty Pony girl). I’m not trying to imply they’re the same person, but they appear to have a similar cyclic problem, apologizing, posting bright news for a bit, going off track and complaining, and then lashing out for attention when anyone disagrees with them. — "There’s a seeker born every minute."
Response:
The bi-polar thing is becoming un-bearable. (polar bears that is). My experience is that when in depressed mode most bi-polars can barely function much less adjust the temperature in their $7000 Jacuzzis. When manic, they get so high that they are very grandiose, superior, intolerant and know it all (like me <G). Ari appears to be pulling our appendages. When I was depressed deeply, I couldn’t have even used my keyboard. When I was manic, I was out spending.
Ari posts with the same kind of cycle as DesertWind (the My Pretty Pony girl). I’m not trying to imply they’re the same person, but they appear to have a similar cyclic problem, apologizing, posting bright news for a bit, going off track and complaining, and then lashing out for attention when anyone disagrees with them. — "There’s a seeker born every minute."
Response:
Trolls love to stir up people’s emotions, and then sit back and watch everyone dance to their tune. It’s a power thing. (Here’s a nice cliched expression–the group is being played like a fish.) All trolls are weenies, powerless in their own lives, using the perceived anonymity of the Internet to enhance their sense of importance. When trolls are ignored, they go away. Or they might as well have gone away, because it’s like the tree in the forest. If nobody knows it fell, did it make a sound? Maybe yes maybe no, but surely nobody gives a hoot. Just like nobody would give a hoot what a troll posts if nobody bothered to read them. ….. Bridget M. CAD 2/4/94 High: 194 LC 7/12/01 188/175/126
Response:
Hi Liz, I chose not to respond to posts such as this one only because I don’t know much about the subject and don’t know what to post to respond. I however did go to the support.divorce to read up on it a little and I was very confused and sad on what I was reading. Sad for Ari and sad for her husband. I too feel worried about Ari as she is very confused at the moment as she is saying one thing and then writing opposite to it. I had a friend years ago that hurt many of us along the way and found out she had bipolar many years later. I almost lost my job doing a job I loved the most because she threw a spanner in the works at my workplace. She succeeded in getting other friends fired, yet was so apologetic later but would get spiteful if her apology was not accepted. I know she was depressed alot and abused alcohol and drugs to "get away" as she put it. If there was anything that would work with my friend years ago was that it was best to allow her to vent and not comment if she is having a bad day but support her and let her know you care. And for us to realise that she is living this everyday. No disrespect here but Ari is living with a disability and we all have a disability in one shape or form, visible or in the mind. We just need to learn to accept others for their differences and support them when they are screaming out for it. Sometimes just listening is enough, no need to pass judgement, just listen and let her know that you have listened. *hugs* will never go astray. Yes, some posts make me angry at Ari and I want to post and tell her that, but what will that achieve? If you are to pass judgement it is easier to go to the next post than to stir the pot. It would be hard enough to live with bipolar day in day out, but for others to judge you on it would be even worse. I too suffered from depression for a couple of years and it crippled me at one stage that I was unable to get out of bed for 5 weeks. 5 weeks of my life that I have no recollection of due to the drugs I was on. I eventually got my wakeup call and realised that only I could help myself. Medication helps to some degree but the help has got to come from yourself. Only you can make the choice to let the illness take you over. If you chose to blame the illness for everything and allow it to take over your life, well its over. It can never get better because your will to be well is not there. Its like weight loss, if you chose to not help yourself, the weight aint going nowhere! — Rose "My friend is one… who takes me for what I am." (238/200/140 lbs) (108/91/63 kgs)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with it and I could be dead wrong. But I don’t think so. LizB
Response:
Rose, I would agree with you if Ari was just going through a bad patch, but she has been doing this passive aggressive routine on several groups for quite a while. Perhaps the best way to support Ari is to underwrite all her drama once only and let her spin out of control from then on until she is tired of vying for attention and presents some tangible and lasting changes. There are too many sincere newbies arriving daily who are really anxious for help and success. I don’t know about you but my energy is limited and despite that I post quite often. But I can’t roll with the constantly changing punches that Ari unleashes. The $7000 Jacuzzi was the straw that drowned me. Obviously you have an open heart and a caring nature and I wouldn’t want you to lose it to skepticism, so let me be the doubting Thomas. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Liz, I chose not to respond to posts such as this one only because I don’t know much about the subject and don’t know what to post to respond. I however did go to the support.divorce to read up on it a little and I was very confused and sad on what I was reading. Sad for Ari and sad for her husband. I too feel worried about Ari as she is very confused at the moment as she is saying one thing and then writing opposite to it. I had a friend years ago that hurt many of us along the way and found out she had bipolar many years later. I almost lost my job doing a job I loved the most because she threw a spanner in the works at my workplace. She succeeded in getting other friends fired, yet was so apologetic later but would get spiteful if her apology was not accepted. I know she was depressed alot and abused alcohol and drugs to "get away" as she put it. If there was anything that would work with my friend years ago was that it was best to allow her to vent and not comment if she is having a bad day but support her and let her know you care. And for us to realise that she is living this everyday. No disrespect here but Ari is living with a disability and we all have a disability in one shape or form, visible or in the mind. We just need to learn to accept others for their differences and support them when they are screaming out for it. Sometimes just listening is enough, no need to pass judgement, just listen and let her know that you have listened. *hugs* will never go astray. Yes, some posts make me angry at Ari and I want to post and tell her that, but what will that achieve? If you are to pass judgement it is easier to go to the next post than to stir the pot. It would be hard enough to live with bipolar day in day out, but for others to judge you on it would be even worse. I too suffered from depression for a couple of years and it crippled me at one stage that I was unable to get out of bed for 5 weeks. 5 weeks of my life that I have no recollection of due to the drugs I was on. I eventually got my wakeup call and realised that only I could help myself. Medication helps to some degree but the help has got to come from yourself. Only you can make the choice to let the illness take you over. If you chose to blame the illness for everything and allow it to take over your life, well its over. It can never get better because your will to be well is not there. Its like weight loss, if you chose to not help yourself, the weight aint going nowhere! — Rose "My friend is one… who takes me for what I am." (238/200/140 lbs) (108/91/63 kgs) … but this isn’t intended to be a nasty post. I’ve just reviewed all the posts by Ari and the responses over the past day or so, and checked over at alt.support. divorce and it’s pretty wild. Believe it or not, I do care and worry that Ari is spinning out of control. I get angry and snap at her but it’s actually no different than calling someone on their behaviour in real life, I don’t think. It’s true I don’t really know what part of this is bipolar disorder and what part is something else. What I do think is that she is deliberately saying things that are meant to get us mad because we haven’t responded much to some of her recent posts. I don’t quite understand why someone would deliberately incite angry responses like this. Attention-getting, playing-stupid questions just to get answers or sympathy I understand, but deliberately provoking a group of people she comes to on a regular basis I don’t. In any case, I think that though some allowance should be made for a disorder like bipolar, the fact is that in real life and even here it is (I think) unacceptable to act the way she is. Maybe she can’t help it, I don’t know what’s going on in her head. But in reality, she is ultimately responsible for her behaviour and when she lashes out at us we can choose to dismiss it as just a result of her illness or we can say to ourselves "I’ve had it with this woman’s crap". I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being fed up with it. When you behave a certain way there are consequences, and when you publicly announce all the things you are doing to aggravate your condition and then blame that condition for your behaviour… well, I can’t excuse it any more. I have clinical depression. Well under control now, but it caused a lot of problems when I was younger. I have had the odd "manic" episode and was once incorrectly diagnosed as manic-depressive (bi-polar). I acted, let’s just say, very strangely for a while and then crashed, got help and that was the result. Anyway, not to go into detail but I’m not bipolar – I have a tendency sometimes toward manic behaviour but not in the extreme. Mostly it’s the depressive stuff. When I miss work, school, social events and things because of it, there are consequences. When I was incredibly sad, depressed and angry and drinking a lot in my early twenties, there were consequences. I have to make sure my medication is right, that I take it properly, and see my doctor on a regular basis and not take or do anything that will conflict with my treatment. It’s been 15 years and I don’t like it but it looks like I’ll probably need treatment for a long time. For me, it is never "cured". Maybe someday. But anyway, that’s just tough. Too bad I can’t take a stack because of antidepressants. Too damn bad if people are ticked off that I miss a social event, or my husband gets annoyed that I don’t want to go out to something. I have to go. It’s not their fault that I have a problem. For work, I have to work weekends sometimes to make up for time lost (when I was doing that kind of work). For school, I’ve had to do a month’s worth of work in a weekend, go weeks on very little sleep, be uncomfortable for long periods of time surrounded by other people. I have the option of retreating into privacy but it just creates more stuff to fix later on. What I’m saying is, and I’m not trying to stick a halo on my head here – far from it, I still do dumb stuff all the time – there are consequences to my behaviour as a result of my illness. The illness is there, the discomfort is real, but life happens and I have to do it. If I hurt people I have to apologize, or stay away until I feel that I’m up for socializing or doing whatever I need to do. I have to patch things up sometimes and plan things around times that I know will be tough. I think we’re hurting Ari by responding to her or trying to help when she’s ill. She has accused us of being bigots in the past because of her disorder but she shows no signs of really trying to help herself. She is doing things, and very openly and loudly, to sabotage any improvement in her condition. We’re just the sounding- board right now. She wants pity and unconditional support in exchange for completely selfish behaviour and occasional outbursts of anger. I do understand that an illness like this (much worse than my own, I think, at least at this point in time) can be all-consuming, but Ari is an adult with adult responsibilities and it is not fair to inflict all this on us. Can’t stop her from doing it (except by killfile) but I personally think that even angry responses are just feeding the fire. Outright ignoring is the only way. Like with kids – reinforce the good, consequences for the bad. Only in this case, the consequence that I think would make the only difference is that of ignoring. Sorry if this sounds harsh. But when we respond nicely and tactfully to a ludicrous statement, or get angry and tell Ari she needs help, in both ways she is being reinforced positively for her behaviour. The only way she will EVER make an attempt to help herself is if the dismissal of her abuse due to bi-polar disorder STOPS, if her attention-getting posts are ignored, and she realizes that no matter what her personal problems are there are some things she can only do for herself. Got long. Anyway, I don’t know if I’m right but I can’t in good conscience respond to anything by her any more. I think it’s hurting her more than it’s helping, no matter what it is. Just my opinion, take it or leave it or flame me, but I’m really worried about this lady. Even when she’s silent and absent I worry because something like this starts up afterward. I wish her well but won’t support her actions anymore. And this isn’t a "are-you-with-me-or-against-me" type of thing. I’m just typing what I think and how I plan to deal with
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Response:
Hi Carol, Its true, I don’t know Ari as much as you guys. I have read some post of late that I thought she was going through a bad patch with a possible divorce and she had bipolar. I really never new much about the subjects to comment. I was saddened to read some posts that were in regards to her marriage and I feel a little sad for her husband, and feel that he must be going through a very bad patch right now. Her posts tell me that she loves him but hates him and with such a behaviour I am not surprised that her husband wants to leave. I had no idea that she has been doing this routine on other news groups as I only subscribe to this one and support.diet.rx but I have read a little more in divorce group this morning to get a little more of a feel of what is going on and it is not healthy at all. Thanks for your input and understand why you need to be doubting Thomas. 
— Rose "My friend is one… who takes me for what I am." (238/200/140 lbs) (108/91/63 kgs)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rose, I would agree with you if Ari was just going through a bad patch, but she has been doing this passive aggressive routine on several groups for quite a while. Perhaps the best way to support Ari is to underwrite all her drama once only and let her spin out of control from then on until she is tired of vying for attention and presents some tangible and lasting changes. There are too many sincere newbies arriving daily who are really anxious for help and success. I don’t know about you but my energy is limited and despite that I post quite often. But I can’t roll with the constantly changing punches that Ari unleashes. The $7000 Jacuzzi was the straw that drowned me. Obviously you have an open heart and a caring nature and I wouldn’t want you to lose it to skepticism, so let me be the doubting Thomas. Diva "There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure." Eleanor Roosevelt
Response:
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I have been totally well adjusted for years now an never forget my bi-polar history but am proof that it can be managed and even overcome. You know, I’ve been through depression myself. While I know that it wasn’t the same as bi-polar, I have read a little on the subject. I typically avoid Ari’s posts and other bi-polars on this group because sparring with them causes me emotional pain. Julie Anne
– Diva
) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bob 
Categories: Seroquel For Bi Polar/depression | 
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(( *crying*