Question:
Hi Sierra, No, never had a dx of psychotic or schizophrenia. Why these? I always assumed cause in some ways they are more powerful, also being referred to as a group as "major tranquilizers" for one thing, plus they were the "big g*ns" we pulled out when very agitated etc and needing to calm down. I am not currently concerned, but we probably have taken 10 or less of the pills total in the last year. Years ago we took mellarill round the clock and that was a concern. Later we took risperdal for a long period of time daily. Finally we decided on our own to quit completely. We hated the drugged feeling, and it felt like we weren’t being allowed to be who we really were and hadn’t we had too much of that all our lives? Still don’t like the drugged feeling, but for once in a very long time felt the need to just unwind (as in something is going to give otherwise, like us). Todoeoeoeo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - —–Original Message—– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html… "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN Well, 2 nights in a row of seroquel. Usually hate the groggy feeling. But this is almost like a little vacation, from the tension, sleeplessness. Usually don’t take 2 nights in a row, but yesterday just had a strong feeling that we needed a more extensive period of time to just shut the systems down, and unwind. (respectfully edited) — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html… "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN Well, 2 nights in a row of seroquel. Usually hate the groggy feeling. But this is almost like a little vacation, from the tension, sleeplessness. Usually don’t take 2 nights in a row, but yesterday just had a strong feeling that we needed a more extensive period of time to just shut the systems down, and unwind.
(respectfully edited)
Response:
To all, The use of antipsychotics in the treatment of dissociation is a debatable issue. Some people in the medical community feel their use in MPD might be grounds for malpractice in the future. My own experience withthem were similar to the other authors. My symptoms didn’t decrease, i was just too tired and lethargic from the medication to even convey my feelings. I think they are over-prescribed by physicians unfamilar with the psychological aspects of dissociation. I think some of us need to be a little more critical of the choices of some of our doctors. Thank you Before you buy.
Response:
Heeheehee!! Best one yet!! Go Shebbie!! Todoeoeoeoeo – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - —–Original Message—– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation snippage: This has been a non-paid, non-political, announcement. Todoeoeoeooeoeoeoeo Hi Todoe (or PuffKitty if you prefer now) You know, when someone in a previous post mentioned something about your name in relation to oreos, it reminded me of how when I see your sig, Todoeoeoeoeoeo, I always here Shebbie in the background saying it loud in a tarzan type hollar ;o) Just thought I’d throw that little tidbit in. 
) Phoenix —- "May fortune favor the foolish." Captain James T. Kirk About to attempt time travel to retrieve 2 humpback whales from the past to save the world. ( "Voyage Home" Star Trek movie.) — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
–snip–:) you know that Many drugs have "multiple" uses for multiple conditions. It’s not a case of black and white, good and bad.
hheellllooo… :}} i hope not to make anyone unhappy by adding this, but i honestly feel this way too… i dont really think its black and white either (at all, actually)…. ive taken a good handful of them over the past two years.. and its changed a lot of my theories about those kind of drugs and what they do and how they work and stuff. i was pretty surprised. to be fair, there are other sides to it… they can help a lot sometimes…. I am aware that you feel the inappropriate prescription of an anti-psychotic destroyed your health.
urg, how awful…. see, this happened to me too.. i was committed for a year in the early 80’s (i was 17) and it was a *total* nightmare… for like 15 years after i was TOTALLY totally against anything that had to do with psychiatry or anything like that…. i actually felt that they had successfully and completely driven my ins*ne 
) (they were pros) so i was *totally* anti-psychiatry, anti-meds, the whole thing for sooo long…. but for some reason a few years ago i finally i tried some.. and you know what some of them made me -violently- ill, but others really really helped me a *lot*…… a lot of my friends really freaked out becuase i was being like a ‘traitor’ to the cause of being a psychiatric survivor and all that. but i just said, it makes me feel better. if it didnt, i would not be taking it. but, it is making me feel a lot better. i have to say i think medicines have changed, doctors are changing (slooooowly) and that used ***carefully*** some of these meds *can* be useful in helping live a more comfortable, but still real, if not realer, life. so, i know that they say that mpd is not a ‘disease’ in the classic sense.. so in that case wouldnt exactly respond to medicine.. but, medicine *can* help with anxiety, or stress, or ptsd, or, messed up chemistry from having to deal with life… these conditions are kinda overlapping sometimes… it doesnt mean you ‘have’ any particular ‘condition’ just that your brain happens to be responding this certain way to these certain chemicals…… i think people should do what makes them most comfortable.. im just offering another view becuase, maybe in this case they would be helpful. it would be a shame to dismiss that out of hand, even though i totally agree that they have been wayyyyyy overused, and used to h*rt many many people where it did way more harm than good. actually when i finally got ‘evaluated’ or whatever it was they did the woman there said that if she saw anything in my life that contributed to my ‘condition’ at this point (im 33) , she thought it was the drugs they gave me in the hospital )) since i was only 17 at the time. so, you just have to weight the facts and be informed. i really hope i didnt offend anyone by that, if so just let me know and hopefully we can talk it out. anna "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"
Response:
snippage: This has been a non-paid, non-political, announcement. Todoeoeoeooeoeoeoeo
Hi Todoe (or PuffKitty if you prefer now) You know, when someone in a previous post mentioned something about your name in relation to oreos, it reminded me of how when I see your sig, Todoeoeoeoeoeo, I always here Shebbie in the background saying it loud in a tarzan type hollar ;o) Just thought I’d throw that little tidbit in. ) Phoenix – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —- "May fortune favor the foolish." Captain James T. Kirk About to attempt time travel to retrieve 2 humpback whales from the past to save the world. ( "Voyage Home" Star Trek movie.)
Response:
Hi… hope no one minds if I step in here. I was on seroquel, too. It made me feel real miserable, so I stopped taking it. I was a zombie, couldn’t even get out of bed. I’ve wondered the same thing, though. My doc said that they’ve discovered that it helps with dissociation which is a load of you-know-what because it only INCREASES dissociative episodes. Onbviously, I stopped seeing him as I don’t think he knew dissociation from his left elbow. just my 2 cents. eterniti Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html… "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives?
Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan
Response:
x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, You didn’t place the x-no again and I thought you might have forgotten so placing it again. : o) No, never had a dx of psychotic or schizophrenia.
I didn’t think you did. Never heard you mention it so I thought I’d ask. Why these? I always assumed cause in some ways they are more powerful,
They are definitely that! I’ve always nicknamed them, "rubberband meds" bc they make one feel like rubber. also being referred to as a group as "major tranquilizers" for one thing,
True. plus they were the "big g*ns" we pulled out when very agitated etc and needing to calm down.
I see. I am not currently concerned, but we probably have taken 10 or less of the pills total in the last year.
I see. I didn’t realize you took them so sparingly. Years ago we took mellarill round the clock and that was a concern.
I bet it was a concern. Eek! Later we took risperdal for a long period of time daily.
Were both of theese other meds to relieve the same issues with high agitation, etc? Finally we decided on our own to quit completely.
I’m glad you did. We hated the drugged feeling, and it felt like we weren’t being allowed to be who we really were and hadn’t we had too much of that all our lives?
*nodding* I understand completely. Still don’t like the drugged feeling,
Yeah. Heavy duty. : o( but for once in a very long time felt the need to just unwind (as in something is going to give otherwise, like us).
*smiling* Unwind eh…. What’s that?! : o) Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – —–Original Message—– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html.. "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN Well, 2 nights in a row of seroquel. Usually hate the groggy feeling. But this is almost like a little vacation, from the tension, sleeplessness. Usually don’t take 2 nights in a row, but yesterday just had a strong feeling that we needed a more extensive period of time to just shut the systems down, and unwind. (respectfully edited)
Response:
Hello icarus, The use of antipsychotics in the treatment of dissociation is a debatable issue.
It most certainly is. Some people in the medical community feel their use in MPD might be grounds for malpractice in the future.
It may well be. My own experience with them were similar to the other authors. My symptoms didn’t decrease, i was just too tired and lethargic from the medication to even convey my feelings.
Ditto + be able to separate accurately what was my real experience and what was drug-induced. I think they are over-prescribed by physicians unfamilar with the psychological aspects of dissociation.
I think so as well. I think some of us need to be a little more critical of the choices of some of our doctors.
Agreed _and_ imo, to be sure to thoroughly educate about the med(s) in question before taking to weigh for oneself the benefit-risk factors. I’m all for _informed consent_ . In general, p-d*cs rarely know the full effects/side-effects of a given drug. What they often share is anedotal evidence (data) of benefit-risk based on their own limited experience (ie. from those with whom they’ve prescribed to). Pharmacists know ALL. Always ask them. Plus, I’m not too trusting of a profession who receives direct kickbacks for writing scripts for certain meds. Thank you
Thank you. Sierra of TN
Response:
In recognition of my preference not to do private email with (*******) *ahem… clearing throat* and to respect other’s discomfort when discord presents itself between two asder’s, I am posting this spoilered. No swearing, no splats, some caps for emphasis. Pls retain spoiler. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
(fyi… my affect, tonal inflection, disposition, aura, etc is extremely calm and reserved throughout this post. I have no intention to flame.) Sierra,
Yes. I really dislike the way you question people’s use of medication.
*nodding* I appreciate the ownership in that statement. I think that is the last thing todoe needs at the moment.
*nodding* Respectfully, I can only respect-hear Todoe’s word on Todoe’s needs, the true-blue authority. : o) You may have rejected meds for yourself,
I reject misuse and abuse (of power) with p-meds for myself or anyone, period. I keep my antennae raised for such practices, yep! and I support your right to do so.
a) I don’t believe you are sincere in saying this and b) given your proceeding statement below, this feels like a kiss-slap routine. Normally, I’d be taken aback by such a gross flip flop… nope. If you are who you claim to be
*boooooorrrrrrring* Do you even realize how often you keep saying this to me? I don’t have to prove myself to you nor do I have to put up with repeated harassment. You can keep saying this all you want from here on out, I’m no longer giving this behavior any more attention, negative or otherwise. Unproductive for us both. I’m going duck’s back on this one from now on, Nandina. *quack* *quack* I may even go duck’s back on all your posts to me from now on. you know that Many drugs have "multiple" uses for multiple conditions.
a) it depends on the drug and b) in this post, I am talking with Todoe about a specific drug. And this particular drug is not intended for "multiple uses for multiple conditions" and was never intended for use in ‘dissociative’ conditions or any other condition than it’s designated use. It is, however, as are other anti-p’s, being used discretionarily and imo, VERY experimentally on ppl w/’dissociative’, anxiety, and PTSD symptoms. It’s not a case of black and white, good and bad.
Actually, legally and ethically, (perhaps even m*rally), it is. At least imo, it’s time for such uses to be challenged on a much grander scale than this measly newsgroup (measly meaning ’smaller’). People here respect you,
Perhaps. Does this threaten you if it’s true? *sincerely asking* please recognize your own biases
*smiling* You assume that I don’t and that my "bias" is actually a negative thing. Hmmm… let’s think about that for a minute…. Is it?…. I don’t think so. I recognize my "bias" for what it is. A wake-up call. I ask when I don’t know if someone has had psychotic experiences and is taking an anti-p; intention… clarification. I give a URL that gives the full scoop on the med someone is taking so if they want to know (if they don’t already) what to expect, they can and be an informed consumer. I wasn’t an informed consumer back when and I didn’t even fathom the possibility of longterm side effects and I don’t assume others have/do now… My version of support and caring is positive afaic and I have no intention on changing it unless the person(s) with whom I’ve directed my support towards gives me reason to think otherwise. I have no control on how you view my imput and support, obviously. before you undercut someone
If Todoe felt I undercutted sie, I trust very much that Todoe will tell me, Nandina. I believe this to be true bc Todoe has never appeared to have a problem sharing with me what sie thinks and feels about something I say to sie either privately or publically. Besides, it seems Todoe received my post in exactly the way I intended it, as an inquiry about experiences of psychosis, confusion if there’s been none and a concerned Q about if sie is concerned about short-longterm effects. That is all. Innocent, sincere, honest. No alterior motives. It appears to me that you never like my version of support and that’s fine. I must admit though that it is getting a bit tedious to feel that every post of mine that you choose to ??? on is riddled with criticism and always seen in the worst possible light. : o( who has just reported the __comfort__ she received in making use of this medication.
First thing I did was validate Todoe’s comfort. Maybe you didn’t notice. *shrug* I am aware that you feel the inappropriate prescription of an anti-psychotic destroyed your health. It is unfair to indict all doctors and meds based on that experience.
*smiling* IF ONLY I HAD THAT POWER TO INDICT! *g* I do believe you are assuming my intentions. Oh well. *sigh* I wish you would be more sensitive to the power of your words.
I choose my words and phrases very carefully. What’s obvious to me is that I seem to strike the same chord with you each and every time no matter what I say, do nor the topic in which I comment on and it’s been this way from the first time you introduced yourself to me in private email 1 1/2 yrs ago (?). It’s not my word choices that bothers you, Nandina, it’s my presence as you perceive it to be; this is the conclusion I have come to. There is so much good you have to share.
Perhaps, if you reread my post again and all the others I have posted about meds, you might notice the sincerity, honesty and accuracy of information I try to give, the empowerment I try to instill and the critical thinking I try to foster about taking anti-p’s, meds and more. Perhaps not…. there’s always room for my being repeatedly setup to fail in your eyes…. or so it seems. *big big sigh* And yes, I know that you will be very angry that I have interfered with your relationship with this person,
Naw, I used to get angry at this constant interfering behavior of yours but now I’m so used to it that I’m desensitized to it, a natural consequence of repeated, longterm exposure. who I responded to privately.
Your perogative. Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html.. "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN
Response:
Hello anna, –snip–:) you know that Many drugs have "multiple" uses for multiple conditions. It’s not a case of black and white, good and bad. hheellllooo… :}} i hope not to make anyone unhappy by adding this,
Happiness afaik has never been a prerequisite to posting! : o) but i honestly feel this way too…
*nodding* i dont really think its black and white either (at all, actually)….
Imo, it should be. Drugs are produced, tested, approved under certain conditions FOR certain conditions. To take the effect of say, heavy duty tranquilizing that’s seen in treating schizophrenics (and btw, imagine someone who is in a full blown psychotic process in which an anti-p med IS needed) and then transferring the OVERALL use of this drug to treating others that have no psychosis present, and doing so when there are other, safer, less toxic drugs designed to treat anxiety that don’t act on the other neurotransmitters that anti-p’s do is imo, rampant gross malpractice (I’m sorry, Todoe – I have strong feelings and understandings about this whole practice and I still respect your decision to use seroquel as you do). ive taken a good handful of them over the past two years.. and its changed a lot of my theories about those kind of drugs and what they do and how they work and stuff.
Hmmm… Are you talking about anti-p’s? i was pretty surprised. to be fair, there are other sides to it… they can help a lot sometimes….
I don’t doubt that relief from high anxiety by way of medication is helpful at times. I support the right med for the right condition under the right conditions. I don’t advocate misuse of anti-psychotics on ppl who have no psychosis and messing around with ppl’s neurotransmitters, CNS-ANS, immune systems, etc that is really unnecessary and risking serious mental-medical conditions. Make no mistake, anti-psychotics aka neuroleptics ARE a big deal to take. I am aware that you feel the inappropriate prescription of an anti-psychotic destroyed your health. urg, how awful…. see, this happened to me too.. i was committed for a year in the early 80’s (i was 17) and it was a *total* nightmare… for like 15 years after i was TOTALLY totally against anything that had to do with psychiatry or anything like that…. i actually felt that they had successfully and completely driven my ins*ne ) (they were pros)
I’m sorry this happened to you. so i was *totally* anti-psychiatry, anti-meds, the whole thing for sooo long…. but for some reason a few years ago i finally i tried some.. and you know what some of them made me -violently- ill, but others really really helped me a *lot*……
I understand. Pls understand me when I say that I am not anti-med as Nandina is mistakenly describing me to be. I am, however, questioning the integrity and propensity (trends) and what it means to experiences as a whole. How much of what is experienced needs to be and where, when, what med is to be used and why. I speak in general and of course, individuals must decide for themself what is best where, when, what, why, etc. The social, political, professional and personal is my focus. a lot of my friends really freaked out becuase i was being like a ‘traitor’ to the cause of being a psychiatric survivor and all that. but i just said, it makes me feel better. if it didnt, i would not be taking it. but, it is making me feel a lot better.
*nodding* i have to say i think medicines have changed, doctors are changing (slooooowly) and that used ***carefully*** some of these meds *can* be useful in helping live a more comfortable, but still real, if not realer, life.
I think "carefully" is the key word here. And I’d be interested to hear which drugs you are referring to. Nandina went global and you seem to be too and I was responding to a very specific drug, an anti-psychotic. I’d like to be clearer that’s all. so, i know that they say that mpd is not a ‘disease’ in the classic sense.. so in that case wouldnt exactly respond to medicine.. but, medicine *can* help with anxiety, or stress, or ptsd, or, messed up chemistry from having to deal with life… these conditions are kinda overlapping sometimes…
*nodding* My concerns come from common sense… Anti-p’s are subclassified as major tranquilizers and maybe this is where the mistaken-overlap use comes in. Using anti-p’s (heavy duty tranqs) that do ~FAR MORE~ than tranquilize a schizophrenic on ppl who experience episodic anxiety, PTSD reactions, etc and then ONLY pay attention to the tranq effect as though the _reason_ it’s being prescribed automatically erases all the other stuff anti-p’s do on the brain-body "as if" these effects become void makes absolutely no sense and is imo, DENIAL. Add this to there being other safer, equally tranquilizing meds available that’s intended-designed-approved for anxiety based experiences… Well hmmm…. Makes me wonder. it doesnt mean you ‘have’ any particular ‘condition’ just that your brain happens to be responding this certain way to these certain chemicals……
Everyone’s brain soup differs, yes. If you had a brain soup that say, lacked a sufficient amount of serotonin… would you want to be prescribed a med that only increased your serotonin or one that increased your serotonin and chemical souped your other neurotransmitters and played hockey with your CNS-ANS, and immune system too? i think people should do what makes them most comfortable..
*nodding* I’ve learned comfort is often based on what ppl know and don’t know at any given time. im just offering another view becuase, maybe in this case they would be helpful.
I appreciate the sharing. I’m still interested if you’ve been talking about p-meds in general or specifically anti-psychotics. it would be a shame to dismiss that out of hand, even though i totally agree that they have been wayyyyyy overused, and used to h*rt many many people where it did way more harm than good.
And imo, the reason this is true is bc p-d*cs are taking "intended, designated, tested use" and replacing it with selective, discretionary experimentation. actually when i finally got ‘evaluated’ or whatever it was they did the woman there said that if she saw anything in my life that contributed to my ‘condition’ at this point (im 33) , she thought it was the drugs they gave me in the hospital )) since i was only 17 at the time.
: o( so, you just have to weight the facts and be informed.
Exactly! i really hope i didnt offend anyone by that,
I’m not offended. : o) if so just let me know and hopefully we can talk it out.
No need in my book.
Cya, anna! Sierra of TN
Response:
Sierra, I really don’t want to play mind games with you. What concerns me most, is that people who need medication to survive will blindly dump what they’ve been taking because of your anti-drug message.
Mostly snipped honesty and accuracy of information I try to give, the empowerment I try to instill and the critical thinking I try to foster about taking anti-p’s, meds and more.
I believe you are sincerely biased against doctors who prescribe pyschotropic drugs. I also believe that we need to be better consumers and think critically about the medication we take. That does not mean that all meds are bad, or that all anti-psychotic drugs are bad. I have seen the side effects and know how terrible they can be. I see you denying your anti-med position and that bothers me a lot. But, like I – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no archive: yes Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html.. "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN
Response:
Sierra,
Yes. I really don’t want to play mind games with you.
Glad to hear it. I’m not. What concerns me most, is that people who need medication to survive will blindly dump what they’ve been taking because of your anti-drug message.
I have f*ith that ppl will weigh for themself what is in their best interests. And I advocate common sense and fully informed consent. Mostly snipped honesty and accuracy of information I try to give, the empowerment I try to instill and the critical thinking I try to foster about taking anti-p’s, meds and more. I believe you are sincerely biased against doctors who prescribe pyschotropic drugs.
I do not advocate the use of anti-psychotic medications as an adjunctive treatment to ‘dissociation’, anxiety, PTSD, etc when there is safer, tested, designed and approved drugs for symptoms of anxiety, PTSD, etc. I also believe that we need to be better consumers and think critically about the medication we take.
At least we agree on one thing. : o) That does not mean that all meds are bad,
I never said all meds are bad. or that all anti-psychotic drugs are bad.
They are actually quite helpful to most ppl with psychotic conditions and for those who report receiving help, assistance in using them for anxiety, PTSD, flooding, etc, I would like to encourage looking at the benefit of tranquilization when it is needed as very available in two other classes of drugs that have been specifically designed, tested and approved and much safer than anti-p’s. In other words, it is not the anti’p that is the benefit, it is the subclassified tranquilizing effect. Subclass means it is not the primary class for which the drug works which means every time someone with ‘dissociation’, anxiety, PTSD symptoms uses anti-p’s for the tranquilizing effect, they are ~also~ first and foremost ingesting the primary mechanisms of the drug that works on thought processes, a totally different area of the brain. Are you getting what I am saying yet, Nandina? It is not anti-med, it is the inappropriate use and a narrowing focus on the subclass benefit AS IF the primary no longer exists. Ppl wish medicinal help with emotional modulating, I am all for appropriate assistance with drugs that have far less risks, less side effects and do not manipulate areas of the brain-body that are not required. If ppl are invested in having their thought processes altered, then we are talking about something entirely different. I’m hearing ppl talk of experiences of emotional flooding, anxiety, etc and not about their thought processes needing to be altered. I have seen the side effects and know how terrible they can be.
Horrible isn’t it. : o( I see you denying your anti-med position and that bothers me a lot.
I believe you are reading more into what I’m saying than what I’m saying. I think if you were able to hear what I am actually saying that you’d be less distressed. I could be wrong about that though.
*quack* *quack* Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Todoe, I’m all for feeling better and glad that you were able to get this small vacation. I’m wondering something though… Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html. "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives? Why prescribe anti-p medications that have a multitude of mild to very severe short-longterm side effects? Are you not concerned that for whatever shorterm benefit you may get that you may end up suffering a longterm, lifetime one? Sierra of TN
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Yer welcome. Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quack back atcha! I think you did a good job of stating exactly what the problem is for you. I agree that it makes sense to use the less invasive/active drug. Also accept that individuals who have not been helped by first line drugs may need to try something stonger even if it is a subclass use. I think you acknowledged that and I thank you for your clarification. Nandina Sierra, Yes. I really don’t want to play mind games with you. Glad to hear it. I’m not. What concerns me most, is that people who need medication to survive will blindly dump what they’ve been taking because of your anti-drug message. I have f*ith that ppl will weigh for themself what is in their best interests. And I advocate common sense and fully informed consent. Mostly snipped honesty and accuracy of information I try to give, the empowerment I try to instill and the critical thinking I try to foster about taking anti-p’s, meds and more. I believe you are sincerely biased against doctors who prescribe pyschotropic drugs. I do not advocate the use of anti-psychotic medications as an adjunctive treatment to ‘dissociation’, anxiety, PTSD, etc when there is safer, tested, designed and approved drugs for symptoms of anxiety, PTSD, etc. I also believe that we need to be better consumers and think critically about the medication we take. At least we agree on one thing. : o) That does not mean that all meds are bad, I never said all meds are bad. or that all anti-psychotic drugs are bad. They are actually quite helpful to most ppl with psychotic conditions and for those who report receiving help, assistance in using them for anxiety, PTSD, flooding, etc, I would like to encourage looking at the benefit of tranquilization when it is needed as very available in two other classes of drugs that have been specifically designed, tested and approved and much safer than anti-p’s. In other words, it is not the anti’p that is the benefit, it is the subclassified tranquilizing effect. Subclass means it is not the primary class for which the drug works which means every time someone with ‘dissociation’, anxiety, PTSD symptoms uses anti-p’s for the tranquilizing effect, they are ~also~ first and foremost ingesting the primary mechanisms of the drug that works on thought processes, a totally different area of the brain. Are you getting what I am saying yet, Nandina? It is not anti-med, it is the inappropriate use and a narrowing focus on the subclass benefit AS IF the primary no longer exists. Ppl wish medicinal help with emotional modulating, I am all for appropriate assistance with drugs that have far less risks, less side effects and do not manipulate areas of the brain-body that are not required. If ppl are invested in having their thought processes altered, then we are talking about something entirely different. I’m hearing ppl talk of experiences of emotional flooding, anxiety, etc and not about their thought processes needing to be altered. I have seen the side effects and know how terrible they can be. Horrible isn’t it. : o( I see you denying your anti-med position and that bothers me a lot. I believe you are reading more into what I’m saying than what I’m saying. I think if you were able to hear what I am actually saying that you’d be less distressed. I could be wrong about that though. *quack* *quack* Sierra of TN
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Hello anna,
hello.. mosaics? that is a beautiful name… so.. i went back and reread the whole thread and this is what i saw. it seemed that you guys were discussing ’seroquel’ specifically. it seemed that one person (can i leave names out of it?) it seemed like one person wrote and said (she) had gotten some benefits from taking seroquel…. then i saw some other people seeming to make cautionary statements about the use of anti-psychotics when they were not necessary….. (nothing wrong with that) then i saw a couple of other people write about pretty negative personal experiences with seroquel…. (nothing wrong with that either) i did see it claimed that seroquel is *not* specifically for mpd, which of course is totally true…. but honestly like i said i had the same feeling too, that i really hoped that one person would not be discouraged, hearing so many negative reports all together like that, since it sounded like for whatever reason it was helping her somehow.. so i just stayed quiet, but when it was mentioned, i wanted to agree, because i kind of thought, if it helps her, she should take it, you know. just becuase it is specifically ‘for’ or ‘not for’ something really can be very variable sometimes. this one med i take (depakote thats a mood stabiliser for me) is actually for epilepsy. i dont have epilepsy. but, it helps me….. who the heck am i to argue with that?? i feel like they are relaxing me, on very deep levels that are not bad.. if i did not feel they were doing me good, i would NOT take them… believe me. we really dont know what all is really going on in there.. in some ways we are all experimenting that way… i figure personally, these meds are available, the new ones are becoming more and more refined all the time. i am going to try to make use of them for my own good.. and try to be as careful and aware as possible about how to do that.. there are definitely meds i refused to keep taking becuase i knew they were really messing with me. i think parts of me wre damaged just by the way they switched me around all those anti-depressants the first year.. but, the ones that helped, have done more good for me i think than anything i thought up to try for myslef in many many years… plus, i would think by default that *some* mpd people, just by default of all the stress they suffer, would have actual bonafide psychotic tendencies for sure…. just like other groups of people do…. and in those people, maybe seroquel would be worth any potential side effects. the medicines i take have been well worth the side effects so far.. but i made that choice myself. for me the bottom line is that we are medical consumers.. and as such the medicines and stuff researched by all that tax money and stuff are supposed to make our lives better.. *not* worse. a lot of people have had the equivalent of a psychological r*pe with the use of those awful meds. my daughter’s dad spent 2 years on haldol when he was 18. he has *very* little good to say about that time. on the other hand, its a booming research area right now, lots of new drugs are getting invented all the time.. they are learning more and the meds are getting more refined and accurate. at this stage of the game i say, if it helps you, read up on it, and if it looks ok, do it! if you dont like it.. stop…. thats all i wanted to contribute. many have also been helped by the newer ap’s. thats all :-}}}} anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – –snip–:) you know that Many drugs have "multiple" uses for multiple conditions. It’s not a case of black and white, good and bad. hheellllooo… :}} i hope not to make anyone unhappy by adding this, Happiness afaik has never been a prerequisite to posting! : o) but i honestly feel this way too… *nodding* i dont really think its black and white either (at all, actually)…. Imo, it should be. Drugs are produced, tested, approved under certain conditions FOR certain conditions. To take the effect of say, heavy duty tranquilizing that’s seen in treating schizophrenics (and btw, imagine someone who is in a full blown psychotic process in which an anti-p med IS needed) and then transferring the OVERALL use of this drug to treating others that have no psychosis present, and doing so when there are other, safer, less toxic drugs designed to treat anxiety that don’t act on the other neurotransmitters that anti-p’s do is imo, rampant gross malpractice (I’m sorry, Todoe – I have strong feelings and understandings about this whole practice and I still respect your decision to use seroquel as you do). ive taken a good handful of them over the past two years.. and its changed a lot of my theories about those kind of drugs and what they do and how they work and stuff. Hmmm… Are you talking about anti-p’s? i was pretty surprised. to be fair, there are other sides to it… they can help a lot sometimes…. I don’t doubt that relief from high anxiety by way of medication is helpful at times. I support the right med for the right condition under the right conditions. I don’t advocate misuse of anti-psychotics on ppl who have no psychosis and messing around with ppl’s neurotransmitters, CNS-ANS, immune systems, etc that is really unnecessary and risking serious mental-medical conditions. Make no mistake, anti-psychotics aka neuroleptics ARE a big deal to take. I am aware that you feel the inappropriate prescription of an anti-psychotic destroyed your health. urg, how awful…. see, this happened to me too.. i was committed for a year in the early 80’s (i was 17) and it was a *total* nightmare… for like 15 years after i was TOTALLY totally against anything that had to do with psychiatry or anything like that…. i actually felt that they had successfully and completely driven my ins*ne ) (they were pros) I’m sorry this happened to you. so i was *totally* anti-psychiatry, anti-meds, the whole thing for sooo long…. but for some reason a few years ago i finally i tried some.. and you know what some of them made me -violently- ill, but others really really helped me a *lot*…… I understand. Pls understand me when I say that I am not anti-med as Nandina is mistakenly describing me to be. I am, however, questioning the integrity and propensity (trends) and what it means to experiences as a whole. How much of what is experienced needs to be and where, when, what med is to be used and why. I speak in general and of course, individuals must decide for themself what is best where, when, what, why, etc. The social, political, professional and personal is my focus. a lot of my friends really freaked out becuase i was being like a ‘traitor’ to the cause of being a psychiatric survivor and all that. but i just said, it makes me feel better. if it didnt, i would not be taking it. but, it is making me feel a lot better. *nodding* i have to say i think medicines have changed, doctors are changing (slooooowly) and that used ***carefully*** some of these meds *can* be useful in helping live a more comfortable, but still real, if not realer, life. I think "carefully" is the key word here. And I’d be interested to hear which drugs you are referring to. Nandina went global and you seem to be too and I was responding to a very specific drug, an anti-psychotic. I’d like to be clearer that’s all. so, i know that they say that mpd is not a ‘disease’ in the classic sense.. so in that case wouldnt exactly respond to medicine.. but, medicine *can* help with anxiety, or stress, or ptsd, or, messed up chemistry from having to deal with life… these conditions are kinda overlapping sometimes… *nodding* My concerns come from common sense… Anti-p’s are subclassified as major tranquilizers and maybe this is where the mistaken-overlap use comes in. Using anti-p’s (heavy duty tranqs) that do ~FAR MORE~ than tranquilize a schizophrenic on ppl who experience episodic anxiety, PTSD reactions, etc and then ONLY pay attention to the tranq effect as though the _reason_ it’s being prescribed automatically erases all the other stuff anti-p’s do on the brain-body "as if" these effects become void makes absolutely no sense and is imo, DENIAL. Add this to there being other safer, equally tranquilizing meds available that’s intended-designed-approved for anxiety based experiences… Well hmmm…. Makes me wonder. it doesnt mean you ‘have’ any particular ‘condition’ just that your brain happens to be responding this certain way to these certain chemicals…… Everyone’s brain soup differs, yes. If you had a brain soup that say, lacked a sufficient amount of serotonin… would you want to be prescribed a med that only increased your serotonin or one that increased your serotonin and chemical souped your other neurotransmitters and played hockey with your CNS-ANS, and immune system too? i think people should do what makes them most comfortable.. *nodding* I’ve learned comfort is often based on what ppl know and don’t know at any given time. im just offering another view becuase, maybe in this case they would be helpful. I appreciate the sharing. I’m still interested if you’ve been talking about p-meds in general or specifically anti-psychotics. it would be a shame to dismiss that out of hand, even though i totally agree that they have been wayyyyyy overused, and used to h*rt many many people where it did way more harm than good. And imo, the reason this is true is bc p-d*cs are taking "intended, designated, tested use" and replacing it with selective, discretionary
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Hello eterniti, hope no one minds if I step in here.
Not I. I was on seroquel, too. It made me feel real miserable,
: o( so I stopped taking it.
Understandable. I was a zombie, couldn’t even get out of bed.
That’s why I’ve nicknamed anti-p’s, rubberband meds. I’ve wondered the same thing, though. My doc said that they’ve discovered that it helps with dissociation
I’d certainly like to see the research data on that. I think just about anyone who takes them will have whatever they were experiencing be temporarily subdued; they’re major tranquilizers as Todoe has so aptly pointed out. which is a load of you-know-what because it only INCREASES dissociative episodes.
Wonder if you mean "increase" while under the influence of anti-p’s like seroquel or after or both during and after. Onbviously, I stopped seeing him as I don’t think he knew dissociation from his left elbow.
hehehehe… provided he had a left elbow. : o) just my 2 cents.
Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts, eterniti. Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Do you experience an ongoing/temporal psychosis of any kind to be prescribed seroquel? A direct quote from a med source: http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-q01.html.. "Indications and Clinical Use: (Seroquel) Quetiapine is indicated for the management of the manifestations of schizophrenia." If you don’t, then I truly don’t get it… Why are you and so many other ppl with a "dissociative" condition being prescribed anti-psychotic medications when there are plenty of other sleeping, anxiety, depression med alternatives?
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Later we took risperdal for a long period of time daily. Finally we decided on our own to quit completely. We hated the drugged feeling, and it felt like we weren’t being allowed to be who we really were and hadn’t we had too much of that all our lives?
I took risperdal for a bit last year. Didn’t give me the drugged feeling– made me l*ct*te!! (a) Very scary! Especially since I was 19 at the time… mom thought I mighta been pr*g, but that wasn’t physically possible at the time! Needless to say, I stopped it imediately. eterniti Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known. -Carl Sagan
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Thanks to all who responded and were concerned in any way about us. We started taking this class of drug back in 1993. Haven’t snffred nay snidenefkts yeet, so k? This couldn’t have anything to do with my drooling all over my pillow, could it? Or the fact that I know I’ve been abd*cted by aliens disguised as Denver Br*nco players (including about 7 John Elw*ys)? Or the fact that occasionally my brain turns to mush and random words, thoughts, phrases etc start pouring out of my mouth, culminating in my collapsing in a puddle like the w*cked w*tch of the west, crying out in agony my last words, "Oh my beautiful w*ckedness, who would have thought a nice little pill like you could have…."? Nyah!! We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc, so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on. Todoeoeoeoeoeo aka Toreoreoreoreoreo —- "May fortune favor the foolish." Captain James T. Kirk About to attempt time travel to retrieve 2 humpback whales from the past to save the world. ( "Voyage Home" Star Trek movie.) — In Memory of Chameleon: http://www.owlgang.com/pages/chameleon.htm last revised 09/17/99 — May Her Statement Live On! http://www.owlgang.com/pages/advocacy.htm last revised 09/14/99 — O.W.L.’s Page: http://pw1.netcom.com/~owl/uno.html (revised 10/26/99) — O.W.L. Productions http://www.owlgang.com revised 10/26/99 — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
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e’d & p’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks to all who responded and were concerned in any way about us. We started taking this class of drug back in 1993. Haven’t snffred nay snidenefkts yeet, so k? Hi, Todoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeo, I’m sorry to abduct your thread but the issue is important to me. <g I’m glad you haven’t had any side effects yet. That sentence actually wasn’t meant to be as intelligible as it obviously is. It was kind of a joke like – What me? Side effects???? - as we beat our head into the wall or something like that.
I knew you were joking about that. Hmm, thread abduction…I think that is illegal in some states :}
Yeah but how is someone there gonna get jurisdiction? <g Are things any better for you lately? Better? Not sure what I am comparing it to.
I was wondering if things are better than they were last week. I know it’s been really hard for you lately. I was just wondering if that’s getting better, worse, or staying about the same. We’re coping. My mother leaves on Tuesday, one week later is the first anniversary of my dad’s d*ath, and then the h*lidays and more anniversaries.
Yuck! That sounds really hard. :( I wish all that stuff would be over for you yesterday. So it is like stuff is coming at us fast and hard, but we’re staying at the plate and taking swings at the ball when it seems to be in the strike zone. How is that for a mixed metaphor?
I think it worked pretty well. But really, it is very hard right now. And yet at the same time, I think we can say that we’re handling it well.
Sorry it’s so hard. I’m glad that you’re handling it well and noticing that. Kudos. Doc and T almost have documentation for my accommadation under disabilities ready to send in.
Good. :) No sleep last night. Various insiders having a hard time with the mother leaving for various reasons.
): I can understand that. Lots of mixed feelings, I bet. Probably intense ones. I’ll just add that we haven’t taken any more seroquel since that post. The thing about feeling drugged is it can be very triggery for us, cause it is reminiscent of several forms of ab*se, so we don’t go in for the stuff much.
Yeah. I have that problem, too. Some of my perps forced me to take drugs or drink. That’s another reason there’s no "right" answer here. It’s different for everyone. Makes life interesting, huh? 
But are you saying that every pill we ever took of any drug of this class increases the additive effect?
Apparently (and I’m working from what I euphemistically call "memory" here <g but I did spend a lot of time looking at this). Let me use an example. Say that I’m in a very high risk group for developing these problems. Say that with Drug A at a given dosage, half the ppl in my group will develop dyskinesia if they take the drug 10 times. (I don’t think any of the drugs are that risky for any group at therapeutic dosages, btw. I’m just trying to keep my example simple.) If I take the drug once, I have a 5% chance of dyskinesia. If I take the drug twice, I have a 10% chance of dyskinesia. Etc. However, it seems that when you don’t take the drug for a while, these percentages go down. However, they don’t seem to return to 0. Say that after a year of not taking these drugs, your "base" would be only half what it was before. So that if I’d taken Drug A twice before, my "base" would generally be 10%. If I took it, e.g., 3 times in a week, I’d have a 15% chance of getting dyskinesia. (My 10% "base" plus the 5% from taking it the third time.) If I took it one year after I’d taken it 2 prior times, I’d only have a 10% chance of getting dyskinesia. (One half of my 10% "base" plus 5%.) These percentages are *much* higher than RL percentages. E.g., if you are in a low risk group (young, no DD, no neurological problems, etc.) and are taking a low risk drug (e.g., *most* of the newer drugs), the odds of getting dyskinesia from taking the drug once might be one in a million instead of one in a hundred. So taking it twice would only increase your chances of getting dyskinesia to 2 in a million. That’s still a very low risk. (The one in a million is just made up. I don’t know the odds for any given drug or any given group of ppl.) Is that tardive dyskinesia like the lip smacking (is that one example)?
That’s one example. Tongue protrusions are another common example. My head jerked violently. My hands and feet would tap or flap. My tongue did do funny dancing movements and, iirc, I blinked a lot. It was not fun. It sometimes lasted for hours. It could happen at any time. I could never tell when it might happen, how bad it might be, or how long it might last. (Hmmm. All of the stuff in this paragraph sounds like my abuse. It was very traumatic and triggering for me. Thinking about it and all the therapy/therapist related stuff that occurred both before and after my taking the drug are still very triggering for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -This isn’t to Todoe but is in general. Some of the side-effects of neuroleptics are strange. Apparently, the likelihood that you’ll get something like tardive dyskinesia is additive. That is, each time you take the drug, it’s *slightly* more likely that you’ll get dyskinesia than it was the last time you took the drug. If you take the drug long enough and at high enough doses, you WILL get dyskinesia. (Fortunately, most ppl here aren’t likely to take any of these drugs long enough and at high enough doses to make getting dyskinesia certain. With the newer drugs, you might have to take them for a couple of hundred years at "normal" doses to have it be virtually certain that you’d get dyskinesia or other neurological problems. With most drugs, if you had no problems when you took them before (e.g., yesterday, last year), you probably won’t have problems if you take them again. Neuroleptics are *not* like that. Just bc you’ve taken a neuroleptic before without any neurological problems is NO indication that you won’t have those problems the next time you take it. It would be very nice if it were. If you get dyskinesia or other related problems, it will probably eventually go away. It may take a week. It may take a month. It may take a year or so (like the dyskinesia did for me). Or it may never go away. There’s no way to tell except that it’s more LIKELY to go away if you haven’t been taking the drug for long or at high doses. There are other nasty side effects from the neuroleptics. I don’t know if your previous experience with a particular drug is a good indication of whether you’ll experience those side effects or not. snip We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc, so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on. You’re right. Thanks for being so gracious about that. You are welcome. take care, e You too, Todoeoeoe — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
– For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
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Thanks to all who responded and were concerned in any way about us. We started taking this class of drug back in 1993. Haven’t snffred nay snidenefkts yeet, so k?
Hi, Todoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeo, I’m sorry to abduct your thread but the issue is important to me. <g I’m glad you haven’t had any side effects yet. Are things any better for you lately? This isn’t to Todoe but is in general. Some of the side-effects of neuroleptics are strange. Apparently, the likelihood that you’ll get something like tardive dyskinesia is additive. That is, each time you take the drug, it’s *slightly* more likely that you’ll get dyskinesia than it was the last time you took the drug. If you take the drug long enough and at high enough doses, you WILL get dyskinesia. (Fortunately, most ppl here aren’t likely to take any of these drugs long enough and at high enough doses to make getting dyskinesia certain. With the newer drugs, you might have to take them for a couple of hundred years at "normal" doses to have it be virtually certain that you’d get dyskinesia or other neurological problems. With most drugs, if you had no problems when you took them before (e.g., yesterday, last year), you probably won’t have problems if you take them again. Neuroleptics are *not* like that. Just bc you’ve taken a neuroleptic before without any neurological problems is NO indication that you won’t have those problems the next time you take it. It would be very nice if there were. If you get dyskinesia or other related problems, it will probably eventually go away. It may take a week. It may take a month. It may take a year or so (like the dyskinesia did for me). Or it may never go away. There’s no way to tell except that it’s more LIKELY to go away if you haven’t been taking the drug for long or at high doses. There are other nasty side effects from the neuroleptics. I don’t know if your previous experience with a particular drug is a good indication of whether you’ll experience those side effects or not. snip We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc, so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on.
You’re right. Thanks for being so gracious about that. take care, e — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
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Thank you ‘e’ for sharing your thoughts and experience. I think you articulated very well the bulk of my concerns. And thank you as well anna for sharing yours. : o) Sierra of TN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, anna. Good to talk to you again. (: snip re: the anti-psychotics discussion: so i just stayed quiet, but when it was mentioned, i wanted to agree, because i kind of thought, if it helps her, she should take it, you know. just becuase it is specifically ‘for’ or ‘not for’ something really can be very variable sometimes. I agree. I can’t see using an antipsychotic as a first line anxiolytic but if the "normal" ones don’t work, it seems reasonable to consider them. this one med i take (depakote thats a mood stabiliser for me) is actually for epilepsy. i dont have epilepsy. but, it helps me….. who the heck am i to argue with that?? i feel like they are relaxing me, on very deep levels that are not bad.. if i did not feel they were doing me good, i would NOT take them… believe me. we really dont know what all is really going on in there.. in some ways we are all experimenting that way… i figure personally, these meds are available, the new ones are becoming more and more refined all the time. i am going to try to make use of them for my own good.. and try to be as careful and aware as possible about how to do that.. there are definitely meds i refused to keep taking becuase i knew they were really messing with me. i think parts of me wre damaged just by the way they switched me around all those anti-depressants the first year.. but, the ones that helped, have done more good for me i think than anything i thought up to try for myslef in many many years… The problem with the anti-ps is that you can get irreversible damage from taking them at low doses on a prn basis for a very short time. That happened to me a couple of years ago. (OK. I don’t know if the damage is irreversible but it’s lasted 2 1/2 years now.) I think I took the drug for a day or two (for anxiety) when I first got the cognitive and neurological problems. I only took the drug for a couple of months altogether. (I kept taking it bc my T assured me that the problems would probably resolve quickly even if I continued to take the drug and that I could NOT get long-term damage from taking the drug at low doses for a short period of time.) I took it on a prn basis so I didn’t take it every day and I took low doses of it. If you take these drugs you may get irreversible damage before you have an opportunity to find out if the drug helps or not. (E.g., a few days at most for me.) That’s the problem. The risk of this happening is probably low, esp with the newer drugs. But, ime, doctors (not just my T but others my friends or I talked to) are often unaware of this risk. I’ve also read that ppl with DID have a much higher than normal rate of problems with the anti-ps. (I think it was in a book by Colin Ross that’s dated by now and I didn’t see any data to support it. I think that was his clinical impression but, imo, it’s worth considering.) I also read (somewhere) that ppl with neurological problems are at a higher risk, as are women. Many ppl with DDs are women with other neurological problems. For certain ppl, taking an anti-p, even for a short time at a low dosage, can lead to permanent and serious problems. (Just the type of SI I promised my T I’d never do. Which I wouldn’t do anyway. Kind of ironic that he did, huh?) OTOH, there are substantial benefits for many ppl. Ppl here have described some of them. So both the risks and benefits need to be considered *before* you take any drug. There is no "right" answer (except sometimes in hindsight . Each person should make an informed decision about what meds s/he will take, imo. I’m concerned bc, ime (and in the experience of other ppl I know), doctors generally minimize, ignore, or deny the risks instead of providing enough *accurate* information for patients to make an informed decision. snip for me the bottom line is that we are medical consumers.. . if it helps you, read up on it, and if it looks ok, do it! if you dont like it.. stop…. thats all i wanted to contribute. many have also been helped by the newer ap’s. I agree except I think you should read up on it *before* you take it. It may be too late afterward. Do your research then roll the dice. I think that’s all anyone can do. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think it helps if ppl hear all sides. Good talking to you. e
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Thanks to all who responded and were concerned in any way about us.
Yer welcome. And thanks for taking this all so well, Todoe. I am concerned and I am with good reasons. We started taking this class of drug back in 1993.
I see. Haven’t snffred nay snidenefkts yeet, so k?
*smiling* I hope yous never ever do. Some side effects show up immediately and others not noticeable for years til symptoms associated start popping up. This couldn’t have anything to do with my drooling all over my pillow, could it?
: o) Or the fact that I know I’ve been abd*cted by aliens disguised as Denver Br*nco players (including about 7 John Elw*ys)?
And here I thought they came only as 49ers! Or the fact that occasionally my brain turns to mush and random words, thoughts, phrases etc start pouring out of my mouth, culminating in my collapsing in a puddle like the w*cked w*tch of the west, crying out in agony my last words, "Oh my beautiful w*ckedness, who would have thought a nice little pill like you could have…."?
Gee, I hope never! Nyah!!
: o) We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc,
Well, my post to you started out being much about you. And you’re right, the bulk of discussion is not. so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on.
: o) Todoe, I really and truly hope that the side-effects, common and rare, never happen to you nor anyone who simply needs periodic and sustained medicinal help (which hopefully is always defined by us and not others). Sierra of TN
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I’ll just add that we haven’t taken any more seroquel since that post. The thing about feeling drugged is it can be very triggery for us, cause it is reminiscent of several forms of ab*se, so we don’t go in for the stuff much.
well, you see, this was what i was talking about!! this was my angle from the beginning. for sooo long to me those drugs represented nothing but mind control, ab*se from authority, a r*pe of sorts of my mind. i really understand those feelings and that is why i want to make sure that people realize that these drugs actually *do* have function other than that… (NOT the old ones, the newer ones) some of the older ones had awful side effects, and were terribly misused. some of the newer ones have them too.. my last stupid doctor made me go to jail and lose my apartment from giving me inappropriate drugs… i know doctors do that all the time too… i just want to make sure that the handful of those who *will* be helped by such meds is not discouraged from their history of misuse. its just up to all of us to use our own mind as best as we can to do the most we can to make our lives what we want them to be. meds like anything else can be a *conscious* *careful* part of that choice……. *our* choice, not the doctors!! you can get any drug info you want all over the web. i know i certainly looked up everything i was given, from anecdotal evidence to chemical properties. anyway, just a word for personal empowerment here. if it helps you, do it. but be informed. that was my whole message. anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But are you saying that every pill we ever took of any drug of this class increases the additive effect? Is that tardive dyskinesia like the lip smacking (is that one example)? This isn’t to Todoe but is in general. Some of the side-effects of neuroleptics are strange. Apparently, the likelihood that you’ll get something like tardive dyskinesia is additive. That is, each time you take the drug, it’s *slightly* more likely that you’ll get dyskinesia than it was the last time you took the drug. If you take the drug long enough and at high enough doses, you WILL get dyskinesia. (Fortunately, most ppl here aren’t likely to take any of these drugs long enough and at high enough doses to make getting dyskinesia certain. With the newer drugs, you might have to take them for a couple of hundred years at "normal" doses to have it be virtually certain that you’d get dyskinesia or other neurological problems. With most drugs, if you had no problems when you took them before (e.g., yesterday, last year), you probably won’t have problems if you take them again. Neuroleptics are *not* like that. Just bc you’ve taken a neuroleptic before without any neurological problems is NO indication that you won’t have those problems the next time you take it. It would be very nice if there were. If you get dyskinesia or other related problems, it will probably eventually go away. It may take a week. It may take a month. It may take a year or so (like the dyskinesia did for me). Or it may never go away. There’s no way to tell except that it’s more LIKELY to go away if you haven’t been taking the drug for long or at high doses. There are other nasty side effects from the neuroleptics. I don’t know if your previous experience with a particular drug is a good indication of whether you’ll experience those side effects or not. snip We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc, so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on. You’re right. Thanks for being so gracious about that. You are welcome. take care, e You too, Todoeoeoe — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
– "blessed am i to dwell in this beautiful temple"
Response:
Hi, anna. Good to talk to you again. (:
snip re: the anti-psychotics discussion: so i just stayed quiet, but when it was mentioned, i wanted to agree, because i kind of thought, if it helps her, she should take it, you know. just becuase it is specifically ‘for’ or ‘not for’ something really can be very variable sometimes.
I agree. I can’t see using an antipsychotic as a first line anxiolytic but if the "normal" ones don’t work, it seems reasonable to consider them. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -this one med i take (depakote thats a mood stabiliser for me) is actually for epilepsy. i dont have epilepsy. but, it helps me….. who the heck am i to argue with that?? i feel like they are relaxing me, on very deep levels that are not bad.. if i did not feel they were doing me good, i would NOT take them… believe me. we really dont know what all is really going on in there.. in some ways we are all experimenting that way… i figure personally, these meds are available, the new ones are becoming more and more refined all the time. i am going to try to make use of them for my own good.. and try to be as careful and aware as possible about how to do that.. there are definitely meds i refused to keep taking becuase i knew they were really messing with me. i think parts of me wre damaged just by the way they switched me around all those anti-depressants the first year.. but, the ones that helped, have done more good for me i think than anything i thought up to try for myslef in many many years…
The problem with the anti-ps is that you can get irreversible damage from taking them at low doses on a prn basis for a very short time. That happened to me a couple of years ago. (OK. I don’t know if the damage is irreversible but it’s lasted 2 1/2 years now.) I think I took the drug for a day or two (for anxiety) when I first got the cognitive and neurological problems. I only took the drug for a couple of months altogether. (I kept taking it bc my T assured me that the problems would probably resolve quickly even if I continued to take the drug and that I could NOT get long-term damage from taking the drug at low doses for a short period of time.) I took it on a prn basis so I didn’t take it every day and I took low doses of it. If you take these drugs you may get irreversible damage before you have an opportunity to find out if the drug helps or not. (E.g., a few days at most for me.) That’s the problem. The risk of this happening is probably low, esp with the newer drugs. But, ime, doctors (not just my T but others my friends or I talked to) are often unaware of this risk. I’ve also read that ppl with DID have a much higher than normal rate of problems with the anti-ps. (I think it was in a book by Colin Ross that’s dated by now and I didn’t see any data to support it. I think that was his clinical impression but, imo, it’s worth considering.) I also read (somewhere) that ppl with neurological problems are at a higher risk, as are women. Many ppl with DDs are women with other neurological problems. For certain ppl, taking an anti-p, even for a short time at a low dosage, can lead to permanent and serious problems. (Just the type of SI I promised my T I’d never do. Which I wouldn’t do anyway. Kind of ironic that he did, huh?) OTOH, there are substantial benefits for many ppl. Ppl here have described some of them. So both the risks and benefits need to be considered *before* you take any drug. There is no "right" answer (except sometimes in hindsight . Each person should make an informed decision about what meds s/he will take, imo. I’m concerned bc, ime (and in the experience of other ppl I know), doctors generally minimize, ignore, or deny the risks instead of providing enough *accurate* information for patients to make an informed decision. snip for me the bottom line is that we are medical consumers.. . if it helps you, read up on it, and if it looks ok, do it! if you dont like it.. stop…. thats all i wanted to contribute. many have also been helped by the newer ap’s.
I agree except I think you should read up on it *before* you take it. It may be too late afterward. Do your research then roll the dice. I think that’s all anyone can do. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think it helps if ppl hear all sides. Good talking to you. e thats all :-}}}} anna
– For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
e’d & p’d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ——Original Message—– Newsgroups: alt.support.dissociation Thanks to all who responded and were concerned in any way about us. We started taking this class of drug back in 1993. Haven’t snffred nay snidenefkts yeet, so k? Hi, Todoeoeoeoeoeoeoeoeo, I’m sorry to abduct your thread but the issue is important to me. <g I’m glad you haven’t had any side effects yet. That sentence actually wasn’t meant to be as intelligible as it obviously is. It was kind of a joke like – What me? Side effects???? - as we beat our head into the wall or something like that. Hmm, thread abduction…I think that is illegal in some states :} Are things any better for you lately? Better? Not sure what I am comparing it to. We’re coping. My mother leaves on Tuesday, one week later is the first anniversary of my dad’s d*ath, and then the h*lidays and more anniversaries. So it is like stuff is coming at us fast and hard, but we’re staying at the plate and taking swings at the ball when it seems to be in the strike zone. How is that for a mixed metaphor? But really, it is very hard right now. And yet at the same time, I think we can say that we’re handling it well. Doc and T almost have documentation for my accommadation under disabilities ready to send in. No sleep last night. Various insiders having a hard time with the mother leaving for various reasons. I’ll just add that we haven’t taken any more seroquel since that post. The thing about feeling drugged is it can be very triggery for us, cause it is reminiscent of several forms of ab*se, so we don’t go in for the stuff much. But are you saying that every pill we ever took of any drug of this class increases the additive effect? Is that tardive dyskinesia like the lip smacking (is that one example)? This isn’t to Todoe but is in general. Some of the side-effects of neuroleptics are strange. Apparently, the likelihood that you’ll get something like tardive dyskinesia is additive. That is, each time you take the drug, it’s *slightly* more likely that you’ll get dyskinesia than it was the last time you took the drug. If you take the drug long enough and at high enough doses, you WILL get dyskinesia. (Fortunately, most ppl here aren’t likely to take any of these drugs long enough and at high enough doses to make getting dyskinesia certain. With the newer drugs, you might have to take them for a couple of hundred years at "normal" doses to have it be virtually certain that you’d get dyskinesia or other neurological problems. With most drugs, if you had no problems when you took them before (e.g., yesterday, last year), you probably won’t have problems if you take them again. Neuroleptics are *not* like that. Just bc you’ve taken a neuroleptic before without any neurological problems is NO indication that you won’t have those problems the next time you take it. It would be very nice if there were. If you get dyskinesia or other related problems, it will probably eventually go away. It may take a week. It may take a month. It may take a year or so (like the dyskinesia did for me). Or it may never go away. There’s no way to tell except that it’s more LIKELY to go away if you haven’t been taking the drug for long or at high doses. There are other nasty side effects from the neuroleptics. I don’t know if your previous experience with a particular drug is a good indication of whether you’ll experience those side effects or not. snip We also get that a great deal of this discussion isn’t really about us etc, so we shall promptly exist stage right and allow the discussion to go on. You’re right. Thanks for being so gracious about that. You are welcome. take care, e You too, Todoeoeoe — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail: — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
Response:
i used to be such a clear thinker and message writer, but my concentration is blown to hell these days. I’ll hang in there, i’m seeing specialist again on Monday, maybe i’ll have a good talk with him. I find it hard to get the right words, to make him understand how i feel under the surface. Take care, bye for now, stephen ps if you suffer from hayfever like me, my thoughts are with you, i know it get’s pretty bad. 
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