Question:

But yes, you can make as small a cut as you want – a relative newcomer to the benzo market, Klonopin Wafers, comes in tablet sizes as small as 0.125 mgs, allowing for combinations that could easily yield this sort of taper with little trouble.

Thanks for the taper method, but I have a question for all benzo users who had tapered down before: Does a person *have* to eliminate every snippet of low-level anxiety to go back to feeling normal?  Is that the goal of benzo use–to eliminate *all* background anxiety? Right now I am feeling the typical symptoms of withdrawal–rebound anxiety (low-level), feelings of paranoia and instability/dizziness/incoordination, etc. Then there are the stomach pains–occasionally but sometimes intense. Where do you draw the line? Eventually it seems that even the best of tapering schedules will result in *some* withdrawal symptom or two. It’s my understanding that no tapering schedule will eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, the question is this: Do we simply withdraw according to our ability and willingness to tolerate withdrawal, or do we taper according to a strcit schedule for safety reasons. I’m totally puzzled.

Response:

My naturopath recommeded *sublingual* Pro-Bono B-12 and Folic Acid for tapering off. (Actually, you put it between your gums and cheek).  People with anxiety and depression often develop absorption problems. Man, if that stuff is not better and more soothing than any Klonopin in the world…. Total, utter calm. Great lift in mood, and lots of real energy (not adrenaline energy).

Response:

People who are treated and kept ON benzos have anxiety at times, it is not only normal, but an emotion that one MUST be capable of summoning.  Your question is reasonable, and a legitimate one that would naturally come from anyone who is tolerating tapering benzodiazepines downward. First of all, slow down the amount, and do not go any faster than two weeks at a time, period.  That is a MUST. Secondly, know that even highly medicated patients, if being treated for a) depression – the goal is to get rid of   90% of symptoms b) anxiety – the goal is to get rid of about 50% (better if possible, but not "strived for"). You may need a little bit of Klonopin right now, so zero may or may not be feasible *at this stage of your game*.  You may not need it, and you will figure that out. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My naturopath recommeded *sublingual* Pro-Bono B-12 and Folic Acid for tapering off. (Actually, you put it between your gums and cheek).  People with anxiety and depression often develop absorption problems. Man, if that stuff is not better and more soothing than any Klonopin in the world…. Total, utter calm. Great lift in mood, and lots of real energy (not adrenaline energy).

Response:

"Therefore, the question is this: Do we simply withdraw according to our ability and willingness to tolerate withdrawal, or do we taper according to a strict schedule for safety reasons." People forced to tolerate withdrawal always did so.  I never saw one person even need a modicum of medical treatment while on a taper plan. The safety issue is only relevant to possibly doing it too quickly.  You can absolutely cut Klonopin by 1/4 milligram every three days and that is "safe" (meaning you won’t seize/convulse) but it is psychologically a disaster, because it’s WAY too fast of a rate to tolerate, for most people. If you do what I told you (1/4 mg cut every two weeks) you will have few, if any really uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms.  Don’t be afraid to take some over-the-counter pain relievers if you need them.  It’s excellent that you’re using vitamins and dietary supplementation also. You absolutely CAN achieve your goals, however you may have to tolerate a time-table that is outside your "comfort zone" in order to accomplish that. We live in a society that wants everything done quickly, and unfortunately, this is the one thing that is designed to exquisitely torture those who thrive on rapid results.  You can change your thoughts; you absolutely can. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – communication, so pecked out: Does a person *have* to eliminate every snippet of low-level anxiety to go back to feeling normal?  Is that the goal of benzo use–to eliminate *all* background anxiety? Of course not. Anxiety is normal and natural. Some anxiety is a survival method, at the very least. Where do you draw the line? Eventually it seems that even the best of tapering schedules will result in *some* withdrawal symptom or two. It’s my understanding that no tapering schedule will eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, the question is this: Do we simply withdraw according to our ability and willingness to tolerate withdrawal, or do we taper according to a strcit schedule for safety reasons. Let your body be the guide, as YMMV with almost everything in life; this is no different. There is no such thing as going too slow when tapering. There IS such a thing as going too fast. In-between is where you decide you’re at a comfort level (or even a discomfort level) that’s not ‘out of line’ for you. I’ve tapered off of three things in my life. Caffeine, where at first I just stopped and got the ‘nasty’ jitters (at about the 1 weeks point) that I mistook for panic. I then went a slow route, and then down to one caffeine drink per day. Cigarettes, where I went cold turkey after over 30 years of heavy smoking – and at day 4 was at the ‘intolerable’ level. Went to the patch, which worked for me, along with cognitive quitting – and some very helpful behavioral methods as well. I’ve been smober for over 7 years now. Benzodiazepines, where the doc never told me that I’d become dependent. He switched me from a benzo to a non-benzo, and I boinked out pretty good after two days. I was traveling at the time, and fortunately, had some Librium with me, and to my own surprise, that took care of the nasties I was feeling. It was only later that I found out that it was benzo withdrawal. Don’t try that cold turkey thing at home, kids. I’ve tapered down on Xanax as well, to half the dose I’d been on. I just dropped .25 mg per day per two weeks, and had no withdrawal at all. Getting down to that ‘off’ dose is where more time is usually necessary. I’m totally puzzled. Because you’re probably reading too much  Don’t read the above! — Elliott remove yourshoes to email http://www.unitedmedia.com/creators/ballardst/ If you want a new idea, read an old book.

Response:

Thanks for the taper method, but I have a question for all benzo users who had tapered down before: Does a person *have* to eliminate every snippet of low-level anxiety to go back to feeling normal?

if that were possible, Marie, i don’t believe benzos would have been employed in tha first place. Is that the goal of benzo use–to eliminate *all* background anxiety?

speaking for myself, the goal of benzo use (i never knew what benzo was when i met my first xanax) was to eliminate death.  yeah, this feeling might have been "in my head" or "for real"… but what’s the difference?  benzos simply give you a relief that opens doors to deal with the other shit, rationally.  did i know that when i gulped my first xanax?  of course not.  when i found relief, i found introspection, a discovery of major proportions.  with relie…f comes insight. Marie? if you are not "hip hip hurrah’n" a benzo because it saved you from an uncertain death, impending doom, at least, then maybe you are not a candidate for this particular drug.  ok… medication vs. drug…… addiction vs. dependence, i don’t care, all the combative "terminology" purveyors can kiss my previously panic ridden ass. Right now I am feeling the typical symptoms of withdrawal–rebound anxiety (low-level), feelings of paranoia and instability/dizziness/incoordination, etc. Then there are the stomach pains–occasionally but sometimes intense.

are you to the point of "KILL ME, PLEASE?" if not, i’m thinkin’ you are merely detoxing from a drug that was possibly abused for whatever purposes.  but i dunno, i’m not a doctor, but i play doctor with anyone willing. Where do you draw the line? Eventually it seems that even the best of tapering schedules will result in *some* withdrawal symptom or two.

a "symptom or two?"  Marie? if you have only a "symptom or two" with ANY tapering schedule, i am going out on the proverbial limb and giving advice.  DON’T EVEN BOTHER TAPERING, GET OFF THE MED ! i find it a tad insulting to diminish xanax withdrawal to a "symptom or two"… after 2 hospitalizations and 4 hospitalization refusals with a bp of 200+ / 185 +, stroke level, i was told, i don’t fine it "cute" to even post some lame ass withdrawal symptoms.  what?  ya can’t "skip to tha loo muh darlin’?"  welllllll, try agin.  to even be online while tapering xanax would be a tough road to hoe, personally. just put tha motherfuckers DOWN, for chrissake, you’ve been asking about xanax tapering so long that i’m wondering why you are even addressing such a "minor" issue, as that what it seems to be… basin’ in the glory of a "WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOM OR TWO"? HOLY MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCK !  YOU DON’T KNOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW XANAX now sit DOWN, shut UP, and get tha fuck OUT ! go withdraw from ice cream. It’s my understanding that no tapering schedule will eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, the question is this: Do we simply withdraw according to our ability and willingness to tolerate withdrawal, or do we taper according to a strcit schedule for safety reasons. I’m totally puzzled.

if you’re puzzled, you ain’t got NO PLACE in the benzo arena. BAM ! ~me

Response:

I absolutely agree with Elliott on this, use the lowest possible titration amount, and always hold it for at least two weeks (it takes that long for plasma levels to equilibrate with tissue levels..) however I have found that making the "cut" size *too* small, while certainly very safe and effective, tends to frustrate people, because it takes a fairly long time to get from point A to point B.  This obviously is totally dependent on the perspective of the person doing the drug taper. In the immortal words of my physician, "you can’t do a benzo taper too slow, but you can DEFINITELY do it too fast" (even within the parameters of "safety" it can be done FAR too fast to be emotionally (and sometimes even physically e.g. muscle cramps, GI symptoms, joint pains) tolerable. Klonopin’s manufacturer, Roche Laboratories advises that the drug not be tapered any faster than 1/4 mg every three days downward in dosage. Few people could tolerate such a fast rate of taper, but I have definitely seen it done (in a correctional setting, you get what they give you, and that’s what THEY do, because they don’t really care if you’re anxious or not – I worked for the Health Services Dept of a Federal Corrections facility for a while..) But yes, you can make as small a cut as you want – a relative newcomer to the benzo market, Klonopin Wafers, comes in tablet sizes as small as 0.125 mgs, allowing for combinations that could easily yield this sort of taper with little trouble.  I think it would be most cost effective, if you wanted to cut by 0.125 mgs, to buy 0.25 mg wafers and cut them directly in half, storing the other half carefully for the next day. If you’re good at cutting pills, you can accomplish this with a conventional pill-cutter and the standard generic clonazepam 0.5 mg tablets, provided that they are of decent enough strength so that when you cut them into four quarters, they will not disintegrate into a pile of dusty powder (as is sometimes the case with some cheap, crappy generic meds).  I am a brand-name guy myself, but I know that is not always feasible.  You can definitely accomplish what you want though, Marie, so take heart and have confidence in yourself.  Think of all the other things you’ve accomplished…. Gary

Response:

I would recommend tapering at any given time by 1/4 mg and holding that dose for a full two weeks, three if you need to, but two is probably going to be enough. G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ta totally get off a benzo is just plain scary ta me… You know, I tried going down from 2.5 mg to 1.0 mg too fast, and I’ve only been on them five months. A couple of weeks later, I had this feeling of paranoia. I don’t have delusional paranoia, but I felt like it as if someone was out to get me.  A very restless, irritable feeling. Then one night, my head thrashed from left to right for hours, like it was being yanked by an incompetent chiropractor. I woke up with a very stiff neck that day. Maybe that was a seizure or the acting out of a very bad dream. Other than that, just restlessness and lots of irritability. I’m back up a bit to 1.5-2.0 mg a day and will taper more slowly. I guess that benzo detox is like alcohol detox–nasty and hard. I’m just going to cut down no matter what. I don’t want these Klonopins, which are probably factors in my depression/foggy brain, and I can’t take Xanax.  I’ve only been on them for five months, so there is still hope.

Response:

I guess that benzo detox is like alcohol detox–nasty and hard. you can die from both, tha only two substance withdrawals that’ll kill ya right DEAD (exclusive, mutually, of other health issues when withdrawin’ from other substances) cept alcohol’s fast… my Brother did it many times in 1 or 2 days.  benzos?  i’m thinkin’ weeks… i never made it past day 4.

I wasn’t told by my Doc that the brain would end up CRAVING the benzos and going nuts with a lesser amount, like the alcoholic who craves his booze, or the smoker his cigarettes (the dopamine thing for that one). Some folks have detoxed from benzos with Seroquel, which blocks the serotonin 2a receptors and calms agitation/anxiety. Yet, some folks detox from alcohol with benzos. Go figure.

Response:

A couple of questions: 1. If I go down to zero (hopefully), how long until the brain adjusts to the changes after the final dose is gone (assuming total stoppage)? Does the brain ever adjust to normal? 2. Will it be possible to go back to it someday if necessary and get back the nice *hypnotic* effect, or is the hypnotic effect gone for good? I would like to use it as an occasional sleep aid if necessary. Feedback much appreciated.

Response:

A couple of questions: 1. If I go down to zero (hopefully), how long until the brain adjusts to the changes after the final dose is gone (assuming total stoppage)? Does the brain ever adjust to normal?

If you are tapering down please take it very slow as it can produce side effects even a few weeks after a change. I don’t know what’s it’s like to taper down to zero as it’s something I’ve never experienced. 2. Will it be possible to go back to it someday if necessary and get back the nice *hypnotic* effect, or is the hypnotic effect gone for good? I would like to use it as an occasional sleep aid if necessary.

I believe you might get the hypnotic effect (for me it is more a sedating one so assume this is what you mean). I know when I’ve dropped from 5mg down to 2mg a day and then years later had to back up to 5mg it made me quite sedated for the first few weeks. Right now I’m doing well on 3mg per day. Feedback much appreciated.

Vanessa

Response:

1. If I go down to zero (hopefully), how long until the brain adjusts to the changes after the final dose is gone (assuming total stoppage)?

stoppin’ a regimen?  or an "as needed" dosage? Does the brain ever adjust to normal?

oh GOD, let’s hope not.. PERISH THA THOUGHT… normal?  ewwwwwwwww ! 2. Will it be possible to go back to it someday if necessary and get back the nice *hypnotic* effect, or is the hypnotic effect gone for good? I would like to use it as an occasional sleep aid if necessary.

ta totally get off a benzo is just plain scary ta me… ask Meryl or Gary, they know that med stuff… i only know that it’s an anti-siezure med’n you can die from withdrawals from 2 substances… 1:  alcohol 2: benzos…. (i mean exclusive of any other determining factors that could result in death in any ballpark…) (i think) ~t .

Response:

ta totally get off a benzo is just plain scary ta me…

You know, I tried going down from 2.5 mg to 1.0 mg too fast, and I’ve only been on them five months. A couple of weeks later, I had this feeling of paranoia. I don’t have delusional paranoia, but I felt like it as if someone was out to get me.  A very restless, irritable feeling. Then one night, my head thrashed from left to right for hours, like it was being yanked by an incompetent chiropractor. I woke up with a very stiff neck that day. Maybe that was a seizure or the acting out of a very bad dream. Other than that, just restlessness and lots of irritability. I’m back up a bit to 1.5-2.0 mg a day and will taper more slowly. I guess that benzo detox is like alcohol detox–nasty and hard. I’m just going to cut down no matter what. I don’t want these Klonopins, which are probably factors in my depression/foggy brain, and I can’t take Xanax.  I’ve only been on them for five months, so there is still hope.

Response:

ta totally get off a benzo is just plain scary ta me… You know, I tried going down from 2.5 mg to 1.0 mg too fast, and I’ve only been on them five months.

Gary and Philip have some sorta scientific formula for titratin’… (i think they live at 1313 mockingbird lane and grin devilishly at test off’ah 1 mg of xanax and Gary had’ah come-apart’n whoooooooooah, i KNEW i knew better, but it took him ta remind me.  five months is long enuff for you to have this drug in your system, but ain’t it there for’ah good reason?  is there a reason you wanna get off of it? my reason has been at least fifty-’leven times.. "i feel guilty"… "i’m a drug addict"… and finally.. "i’m sick’ah touchin’ muh pocket every 9.2 minutes ta make sure i got my pills’n ain’t lost em or had’m stolen." … i kinda feel like a slave to the "bottle", not the pills, anymore… so i decided to pull off my label and stick it on’ah sterilization bag (fer coparoonie poiposes) and put 2 or 3 in it and pull tha white strip off’n stick it inside my jeans. …and it ain’t like people’re standin’ in line ta get’n muh pants… but so help me GAWD, that xanax crap has been stolen from me more times’n i can count, yeah, i get off topic, i hate that… sorry. A couple of weeks later, I had this feeling of paranoia. I don’t have delusional paranoia, but I felt like it as if someone was out to get me.  A very restless, irritable feeling. Then one night, my head thrashed from left to right for hours, like it was being yanked by an incompetent chiropractor. I woke up with a very stiff neck that day. Maybe that was a seizure or the acting out of a very bad dream.

(or too much pea soup?) EEPS ! Other than that, just restlessness and lots of irritability. I’m back up a bit to 1.5-2.0 mg a day and will taper more slowly.’

THERE ya go.  are ya makin’ "zero" yer goal?  cuz if yer on’ah regimen… i dunno, gurlfrand…. it’s kinda like yer goal would be ta be where ya were b’fore ya got on tha med… and ya got on tha med b’cuz ya were where ya were and where ya were wasn’t where ya wanted ta be, so why jump back in tha fryin’ pan?  yer out’ah tha fire.  people take high blood pressure meds and insulin for life, and hey….diabetics? they ain’t wantin’ ta go back ta "seizureville"… which is where ya end up if ya get all heroic on us. ya need tha meds or ya wouldn’t be takin’ em, hell… my ex took like 35-40 vitamins a day… now THAT’s tha stuff dreams ain’t made of.. (grossed me OUT !) I guess that benzo detox is like alcohol detox–nasty and hard.

you can die from both, tha only two substance withdrawals that’ll kill ya right DEAD (exclusive, mutually, of other health issues when withdrawin’ from other substances) cept alcohol’s fast… my Brother did it many times in 1 or 2 days.  benzos?  i’m thinkin’ weeks… i never made it past day 4. I’m just going to cut down no matter what. I don’t want these Klonopins, which are probably factors in my depression/foggy brain, and I can’t take Xanax.  I’ve only been on them for five months, so there is still hope.

klonopin made me feel downright shitty, it dissipated my panic, but i felt like… "ewwww" when i was on em for about 6 months.  i felt like i had on dirty underwear all’ah time or sumthin… i just felt cramped and hot flashy…  i showered and bathed like 23 million times a day and i couldn’t brush muh teeth ENUFF !  i KNOW i’m tha only one that’s felt like that, or else i’d'ah heard about it already. and good luck with tha titration… talk ta Gary or Philip is my vote, they have’ah collective "med IQ" of 7.9 milligrams.”

Response:

"maybe you are not a candidate for this particular drug.  ok… medication vs. drug…… addiction vs. dependence, i don’t care, all the combative "terminology" purveyors can kiss my previously panic ridden ass." "drug" will be fine.  <wink G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the taper method, but I have a question for all benzo users who had tapered down before: Does a person *have* to eliminate every snippet of low-level anxiety to go back to feeling normal? if that were possible, Marie, i don’t believe benzos would have been employed in tha first place. Is that the goal of benzo use–to eliminate *all* background anxiety? speaking for myself, the goal of benzo use (i never knew what benzo was when i met my first xanax) was to eliminate death.  yeah, this feeling might have been "in my head" or "for real"… but what’s the difference?  benzos simply give you a relief that opens doors to deal with the other shit, rationally.  did i know that when i gulped my first xanax?  of course not.  when i found relief, i found introspection, a discovery of major proportions.  with relie…f comes insight. Marie? if you are not "hip hip hurrah’n" a benzo because it saved you from an uncertain death, impending doom, at least, then maybe you are not a candidate for this particular drug.  ok… medication vs. drug…… addiction vs. dependence, i don’t care, all the combative "terminology" purveyors can kiss my previously panic ridden ass. Right now I am feeling the typical symptoms of withdrawal–rebound anxiety (low-level), feelings of paranoia and instability/dizziness/incoordination, etc. Then there are the stomach pains–occasionally but sometimes intense. are you to the point of "KILL ME, PLEASE?" if not, i’m thinkin’ you are merely detoxing from a drug that was possibly abused for whatever purposes.  but i dunno, i’m not a doctor, but i play doctor with anyone willing. Where do you draw the line? Eventually it seems that even the best of tapering schedules will result in *some* withdrawal symptom or two. a "symptom or two?"  Marie? if you have only a "symptom or two" with ANY tapering schedule, i am going out on the proverbial limb and giving advice.  DON’T EVEN BOTHER TAPERING, GET OFF THE MED ! i find it a tad insulting to diminish xanax withdrawal to a "symptom or two"… after 2 hospitalizations and 4 hospitalization refusals with a bp of 200+ / 185 +, stroke level, i was told, i don’t fine it "cute" to even post some lame ass withdrawal symptoms.  what?  ya can’t "skip to tha loo muh darlin’?"  welllllll, try agin.  to even be online while tapering xanax would be a tough road to hoe, personally. just put tha motherfuckers DOWN, for chrissake, you’ve been asking about xanax tapering so long that i’m wondering why you are even addressing such a "minor" issue, as that what it seems to be… basin’ in the glory of a "WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOM OR TWO"? HOLY MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCK !  YOU DON’T KNOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW XANAX now sit DOWN, shut UP, and get tha fuck OUT ! go withdraw from ice cream. It’s my understanding that no tapering schedule will eliminate all withdrawal symptoms. Therefore, the question is this: Do we simply withdraw according to our ability and willingness to tolerate withdrawal, or do we taper according to a strcit schedule for safety reasons. I’m totally puzzled. if you’re puzzled, you ain’t got NO PLACE in the benzo arena. BAM ! ~me

Response:

If you do what I told you (1/4 mg cut every two weeks) you will have few, if any really uncomfortable withdrawal symptoms.  Don’t be afraid to take some over-the-counter pain relievers if you need them.

This is what I will do. Thanks, GFX. This sounds more reasonable. So far the withdrawal effects are diminishing due to the slow taper process. Just some morning anxiety taken care off with deep breathing for a couple of minutes. I read that deep, slow breathing activates the sympathetic part of the nervous system. My PDoc told me this when no other docs would.  She also said that after a few weeks, belly breathing can become a habit and it also relaxes the mind as well. Funny, my husband and I were sitting reading one day in the living room and I noticed his breathing–belly-breathing *all* the time. I asked him about it and he said he was taught it as a kid in grade school. He then practiced it and it became a habit all his life. Thanks again.

Response:

My naturopath recommeded *sublingual* Pro-Bono B-12 and Folic Acid for tapering off. Man, if that stuff is not better and more soothing than any Klonopin in the world…. Total, utter calm. Great lift in mood, and lots of real energy (not adrenaline energy). so you’re gettin’ yer "jollies" from benzos.  good for you.  if anyone in your family hangs themselves, i’m gonna giftwrap the rope for you.

Read again, Tanya. Read the word "calm." CALM. There’s a difference between calm and "high" or "buzz." You won’t get a high from a Klonopin or a whole bottle of them. You’ll just fall asleep. I wish you would ask a dope dealer to get you Klonopin so you can get a buzz–or better yet, tell him you want *Folic Acid* because you get *high* from Folic Acid. Your ass will be laughed off the street. You should know better than to write what you did.

Response:

My naturopath recommeded *sublingual* Pro-Bono B-12 and Folic Acid for tapering off. (Actually, you put it between your gums and cheek). People with anxiety and depression often develop absorption problems.

bullshit. Man, if that stuff is not better and more soothing than any Klonopin in the world…. Total, utter calm. Great lift in mood, and lots of real energy (not adrenaline energy).

so you’re gettin’ yer "jollies" from benzos.  good for you.  if anyone in your family hangs themselves, i’m gonna giftwrap the rope for you. you make me sick.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – People who are treated and kept ON benzos have anxiety at times, it is not only normal, but an emotion that one MUST be capable of summoning.  Your question is reasonable, and a legitimate one that would naturally come from anyone who is tolerating tapering benzodiazepines downward. First of all, slow down the amount, and do not go any faster than two weeks at a time, period.  That is a MUST. Secondly, know that even highly medicated patients, if being treated for a) depression – the goal is to get rid of   90% of symptoms b) anxiety – the goal is to get rid of about 50% (better if possible, but not "strived for"). You may need a little bit of Klonopin right now, so zero may or may not be feasible *at this stage of your game*.  You may not need it, and you will figure that out.

oh……. vomit.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My naturopath recommeded *sublingual* Pro-Bono B-12 and Folic Acid for tapering off. (Actually, you put it between your gums and cheek). People with anxiety and depression often develop absorption problems. bullshit. Man, if that stuff is not better and more soothing than any Klonopin in the world…. Total, utter calm. Great lift in mood, and lots of real energy (not adrenaline energy). so you’re gettin’ yer "jollies" from benzos.  good for you.  if anyone in your family hangs themselves, i’m gonna giftwrap the rope for you. you make me sick.

That’s not like you to be so judgmental; let the girl enjoy herself! ;o)

Response:

That’s not like you to be so judgmental; let the girl enjoy herself! ;o)

ohhhhhhhhh yeah it is… a week ago, she’s concerned she may not enjoy the "hypnotic effect"… and askin’ if could be an "occasional sleep aid"… and for somebody that’s been through self-inflicted as well as "benzophobic doctor’s dictation via not writin’ my script" i find it nothing but appalling to have this reduced to a mere "euphoria" drug with the worry of the effect not being available at her beck’n call. hell…. i suffered to the point of wanting someone to kill me, as i’m not suicidal… or trust me… i’d'ah BANGED MUH OWN GONG ! my theory is…. i judge when i KNOW from whence i speak. g’nite, Chet. g’nite, Walter ~tanya

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ohhhhhhhhh yeah it is… a week ago, she’s concerned she may not enjoy the "hypnotic effect"… and askin’ if could be an "occasional sleep aid"…

Tanya, cool it man!  It’s not about *enjoying* the hypnotic effect. It’s about using at as an occasional, cheap sleep aid should I ever need one in the future. Benzos make good sleep aids but the hypnotic effect wears off quickly so one can’t use them long term. Sleep is one of my main problems, not panic attacks. When I sleep well, I don’t have as much depression and as much anxiety anymore, if any at all.  The anxiety is going away, and the depression is lifting. My PDoc and I are cooking up a monotherapy method with one med to scrape the rest of the anxiety and depression away–and then tapering down from that med. So much for drug-seeking behavior. And, there is NOTHING wrong with a person, trying out Klonopin for the first time, to find it soothing for nerves because that’s the relief that a person who is anxious and can’t sleep wants. It’s not about getting *high*. It’s about getting relief–and that is soothing in itself. You’re getting it all mixed up. I doubt that any of us are druggies here. Besides, if I asked a dope dealer for Klonopin he would laugh my ass off–Klonopin is not a *high* promoting drug; they used it for withdrawal from the hard stuff.

Response:

Question:

philip- me being the total worrier i am, this has me worried now. i am taking zoloft and seroquel (another anti-psychotic drug) now. i wonder if this has similar problems. do you know of any site or anything where i could read more about this. i am probably totally getting worried about this for nothing (i promise i’m not too worried about that, more curious) but it kinda caught my eye there as i’m really unsure about my meds now anyway. thanks for any help philip or anyone. les. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.      Zyprexa plus Zoloft equals vertigo, akathisia and                                       Parkinsons                           [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ PDI bulletin board ] Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. I think sometimes (especially with underlying Borderline problems) an antipsychotic can be used but I think it is *not* a first choice med for any garden variety anxiety disorder unless all other possibilites are exhausted. Philip

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Response:

Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.

Bravo Philip, a job well done!!!! *Imagine confetti flying all over the place* Who knows, copy & pasting today, getting on a plane to visit me, next week )) {{{{{Philip}}}}} Jackie

Response:

Philip, I mean this in the most polite way, but what does the opinion of one doctor matter in this whole discussion?  Hundreds of pdocs in the US (at least) are using small doses of atypical antipsychotics for anxiety and would disagree with Dr. Shipko.  It is a new practice, though these particular antipsychotics are new drugs.  Personally, I think that a benzo is a much better alternative, but what if one can’t take them for one reason or another (as was the case with the situation that started this discussion)?  Anyway, I guess both of us agree that it shouldn’t be a first-line treatment. Best, Matt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – philip- me being the total worrier i am, this has me worried now. i am taking zoloft and seroquel (another anti-psychotic drug) now. i wonder if this has similar problems. do you know of any site or anything where i could read more about this. i am probably totally getting worried about this for nothing (i promise i’m not too worried about that, more curious) but it kinda caught my eye there as i’m really unsure about my meds now anyway. thanks for any help philip or anyone. les. Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.      Zyprexa plus Zoloft equals vertigo, akathisia and                                       Parkinsons                           [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ PDI bulletin board ] Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. I think sometimes (especially with underlying Borderline problems) an antipsychotic can be used but I think it is *not* a first choice med for any garden variety anxiety disorder unless all other possibilites are exhausted. Philip Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

with respect to dr. shipko I understand his concern but find it an overreaction-please discuss this with your doc if you become too reactive to this-in many years I have seen various cases of tardive dyskinesia from phenothiazine use and akathisia and other neurological complications from many meds including a single med use of ssri’s-the concern for increases in these problems with the concomitant use of ssri’s and major tranqs is perhaps a bit exagerated-so far I haven’t seen anything of enormous concern-I would have you on the same meds with the symptoms you present with an increase in your seroquel forthcoming again in a week or so nix the buspar and add xanax for now. the side effect of akathisia is very variable and tough to nail what its cause is-parkinsonian symptoms can arise from any psychoactive med and is usualy promptly stopped when the med is-vertigo also is common with these meds-trashing a sensitive nervous system is  a bit harsh-where these drugs are used indiscriminantly the overkill potential is high and side effects are indeed severe-but rarely permament. ask your doc LM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steve, To further clarify my position, for pd in particular it certainly seems a better choice to go with a benzo and SSRI (if an SSRI at all) as a first choice rather than an SSRI and an atypical antipsychotic.  I had in mind using the antipsychotic/SSRI combo for GAD, though still not as a first choice.  But SSRIs work for some people with pd, so I’m sure SSRIs and atypical antipsychotics would work for some too. I think that if people look at the chemistry of the newer antipsychotics like Seroquel and Zyprexia (Risperdal is more like an older antipsychotic than the former two are) they might be less concerned with their use for disorders other than schizophrenia.  Due to their reduced action on the D2 receptor and serotonin antagonism, risks that are associated with traditional antipsychotics (extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS) like tardive dyskinesia, akathisia, and dystonia) are greatly reduced if not eliminated (especially with Seroquel).  Using these drugs in the low dosages in which they are used to treat anxiety makes EPS even less likely.  In short, at least biochemically these are much safer drugs than the traditional antipsychotics.  Furthermore, if one does experience any EPS, one simply shouldn’t take the drug.  I was on a small dose of Risperdal, experienced mild dystonia, and decided not to take the drug because of this effect. Anyway, I still think a benzo is a better choice for anxiety. Matt

I should clarify what I said too….I don’t really have any problem with people taking anti-psychotics or any other med or combination of ‘em, I’m just leery of seeing people being prescribed meds that haven’t got any scientific evidence to back up their efficacy for PD yet. What really worries me is this new fad where docs try out new combinations of meds (like Zyprexa and Zoloft together) without having much of an inkling of how they may interact over the short or long term, or whether they will even work. In those cases, people are being experimented on; if people want to do that, that’s fine (somebody’s gotta try these things for the first time! I ain’t brave enough though) but they should be told by their doc that, hey, "we’re experimenting on you." I’m definitely not on a kick against psychiatric meds – hell I’ve tried a bunch of ‘em myself – but there are risks involved, I think. — Steve

Response:

Philip- Don’t worry about it, I kinda over-reacted. Maybe posting stuff like that would be better if you put a disclaimer- i dunno if you did. But it’s good to get info out there even if it’s just opinion – but probably state that it is such. I just overreacted because i just started taking it and i’m not used to it yet so still worried and I never heard anything about it so when i see stuff about such drugs it catches my eye now. Sorry. But don’t worry about having caused me unneeded anxiety. It wasn’t you. les.

Still, I agree that maybe this statement might have been a bit too bold and maybe I shouldn’t have

posted it here as it may have caused unnecessary anxiety (as with Les who is taking Zoloft/Seroquel). Philip

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Response:

Steve, To further clarify my position, for pd in particular it certainly seems a better choice to go with a benzo and SSRI (if an SSRI at all) as a first choice rather than an SSRI and an atypical antipsychotic.  I had in mind using the antipsychotic/SSRI combo for GAD, though still not as a first choice.  But SSRIs work for some people with pd, so I’m sure SSRIs and atypical antipsychotics would work for some too. I think that if people look at the chemistry of the newer antipsychotics like Seroquel and Zyprexia (Risperdal is more like an older antipsychotic than the former two are) they might be less concerned with their use for disorders other than schizophrenia.  Due to their reduced action on the D2 receptor and serotonin antagonism, risks that are associated with traditional antipsychotics (extrapyramidal symptoms (EPS) like tardive dyskinesia, akathisia, and dystonia) are greatly reduced if not eliminated (especially with Seroquel).  Using these drugs in the low dosages in which they are used to treat anxiety makes EPS even less likely.  In short, at least biochemically these are much safer drugs than the traditional antipsychotics.  Furthermore, if one does experience any EPS, one simply shouldn’t take the drug.  I was on a small dose of Risperdal, experienced mild dystonia, and decided not to take the drug because of this effect. Anyway, I still think a benzo is a better choice for anxiety. Matt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll back you 100% on this I’m hardly anti-med by any means, but I’m very concerned about the way some docs try every combination of meds under the sun for PD, without having any knowledge whatsoever of what the consequences or efficacy may be beforehand.  I suspect one of the reasons PD tends to have poor long-term outcomes is that sometimes we’re sometimes encouraged to take meds that have been clinically shown to be ineffective (meprobromate, buspar, etc.) and others whose long-term efficacy is uncertain (a few of the SSRIs, etc.) because the studies done on them don’t take the natural waxing and waning course of the disease into account. What’s far worse in my book is for docs to irresponsibly mix meds or use meds that have no clinical evidence of efficacy to back them up at all (like the antipsychotics) out of desperation. That’s a crapshoot, and eventually, sooner or later, there will be an accident and many people will be hurt – the side effects of these things sometimes aren’t discovered for many years after they’ve been in use. that’s why it’s not a good idea to experiment. I don’t think all meds are inherently dangerous or that everyone who takes them is being used as a guinea pig, etc. – but when things get to the point where we’re being fed all kind of combinations of meds under the sun, then I think it crosses the line to the point where we ARE being used as guinea pigs in a sense. Sometimes guinea pigs get hurt. This thing about Zyprexa and Zoloft is just one example. Just my 2 cents again LOL — Steve P.S. I can’t think of a single psychiatric or neurological med that HASN’T been used to "treat" PD…it’s almost like there are no standards at all. Come to think of it, the same set of meds has been used on pretty much every psychiatric or neurological disorder – if these are different diseases, there should be differences between the medications IMHO. I suspect that the reason for that is less that "our brain chemistries are all very different" than the fact that the standards of scientific proof are very lax in psychiatry.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Philip, I mean this in the most polite way, but what does the opinion of one doctor matter in this whole discussion?  Hundreds of pdocs in the US (at least) are using small doses of atypical antipsychotics for anxiety and would disagree with Dr. Shipko.  It is a new practice, though these particular antipsychotics are new drugs.  Personally, I think that a benzo is a much better alternative, but what if one can’t take them for one reason or another (as was the case with the situation that started this discussion)?  Anyway, I guess both of us agree that it shouldn’t be a first-line treatment. Best, Matt

Yes, that should be the bottom line. You are right of course about pdocs disagreeing with each other. Although I have indeed heard of people doing very well on an antipsychotic as an adjunct med I am also inclined to never treat Shipko’s opinions lightly as he is one of the few pdocs who actually *specialize* in panic disorders. Still, I agree that maybe this statement might have been a bit too bold and maybe I shouldn’t have posted it here as it may have caused unnecessary anxiety (as with Les who is taking Zoloft/Seroquel). Philip

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.      Zyprexa plus Zoloft equals vertigo, akathisia and                                       Parkinsons                           [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ PDI bulletin board ] Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. I think sometimes (especially with underlying Borderline problems) an antipsychotic can be used but I think it is *not* a first choice med for any garden variety anxiety disorder unless all other possibilites are exhausted. Philip

I’ll back you 100% on this I’m hardly anti-med by any means, but I’m very concerned about the way some docs try every combination of meds under the sun for PD, without having any knowledge whatsoever of what the consequences or efficacy may be beforehand.  I suspect one of the reasons PD tends to have poor long-term outcomes is that sometimes we’re sometimes encouraged to take meds that have been clinically shown to be ineffective (meprobromate, buspar, etc.) and others whose long-term efficacy is uncertain (a few of the SSRIs, etc.) because the studies done on them don’t take the natural waxing and waning course of the disease into account. What’s far worse in my book is for docs to irresponsibly mix meds or use meds that have no clinical evidence of efficacy to back them up at all (like the antipsychotics) out of desperation. That’s a crapshoot, and eventually, sooner or later, there will be an accident and many people will be hurt – the side effects of these things sometimes aren’t discovered for many years after they’ve been in use. that’s why it’s not a good idea to experiment. I don’t think all meds are inherently dangerous or that everyone who takes them is being used as a guinea pig, etc. – but when things get to the point where we’re being fed all kind of combinations of meds under the sun, then I think it crosses the line to the point where we ARE being used as guinea pigs in a sense. Sometimes guinea pigs get hurt. This thing about Zyprexa and Zoloft is just one example. Just my 2 cents again LOL — Steve P.S. I can’t think of a single psychiatric or neurological med that HASN’T been used to "treat" PD…it’s almost like there are no standards at all. Come to think of it, the same set of meds has been used on pretty much every psychiatric or neurological disorder – if these are different diseases, there should be differences between the medications IMHO. I suspect that the reason for that is less that "our brain chemistries are all very different" than the fact that the standards of scientific proof are very lax in psychiatry.

Response:

Philip – Thank you. That did help. I just got really scared seeing the original post, but seeing the other side is nice. I can never think of stuff to ask the dr when I’m there, and I do find out most stuff about the meds looking on my own. I have seen about this possible effect a number of times. but don’t know much about it or it’s frequency. It’s also had me more worried than the other meds just because i know of a lot of people on my other meds, and here especially, which is a huge comfort as far as knowing everything is going fine with them, but as far as the seroquel, I don’t know of anyone on it at all, which is frightening in itself. I have tried a benzo before, but I didn’t like it, and none of the drs want me on those for any longer length of time. I don’t really want to be on anything as addicting either. As far as your question, no I’m not Borderline Personality. I have displayed some paranoid tendencies and delusional thinking as well as more recently some hallucinations (which I think are normal ones though). It’s hard to deal with more though because I don’t feel like I am really delusional, because I feel a justification for my thinking and fears, but I suppose people don’t always recognize those things. Anyway, if this stuff will all help me I am all for it. I obviously don’t want to do physical damage to my body especially considering my age, but I know I need something. Anyway thanks for adding this post. les. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For a somewhat different putlook on things this earlier post by our house-pdoc Margrove The Great. (TD = *tardive diskinesia* = dreaded side effect) It is indeed a rare se (td) to any major tranq-usually occurs after high doses for long times and in women more often then men. Some are more sensitive to dopaminergic responses so they can develop it at any dose after a period of time. All the majors share this effect and unfortunately td can be permanent. Both zyprexa and risperadol are equivalent in their effect latest research indicates that ris-works better in long term treatment for psychosis but has a higher risk of td. The older meds of fixed ratio drugs like triavil have been used for years for anxiety and agitated depression-the phenothiazine perphenazine is a lousy antipsychotic so they figured they should use it for hightened anxiety. It’s effectiveness on nuerotic anxiety is pretty poor-so the use of major tranqs was regarded as overkill and a different bio responder then typical anxiety. Today anything goes and for some these meds can alleviate some underlying issues even if they are borderline which is why for some they work very well. The newer ones being the least side effect prone obviously. I have seen some impressive reults with zyprexa risper. seroquel,clozaril, moban,and navane, The main symptom reduction target is dissociation. It might be worthwhile to see that pdocs don’t always agree…. Maybe you should ask your doctor why he is prescribing Seroquel, there can be a perfectly good reason for it. The thing is taking meds *always* entails some risk, even aspirin. With whatever med (s)he prescribes the doctor should consider advantages and possible disadvantages and then decide *together with* the patient who should be informed *by the doctor but because doctors most of the time do not inform us we educate ourselves… I am quite obviously not a doctor and I know several people who are on a

SSRI/antipsychotic combo without trouble. Still, other combo’s (SSRI/benzo) are more of a first choice but if you;re diagnosed with *Borderline Personality Disorder* (are you?) your meds may be perfectly allright for you. Philip

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Response:

Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko. Bravo Philip, a job well done!!!! *Imagine confetti flying all over the place* Who knows, copy & pasting today, getting on a plane to visit me, next week )) {{{{{Philip}}}}} Jackie

I actually rang your doorbell a few days ago but you had to choose that very day to be on a trip to New York ) Philip

Response:

Thank you LM. If I have any weird effects from my meds, I will definately tell my doctor right away. I guess it’s good to know the possibilities, right. But I suppose for now I shouldn’t be concerned really. I just got scared when I read the original post. Anyway, thanks for adding your opinion. les. with respect to dr. shipko I understand his concern but find it an overreaction-please discuss this with your doc if you become too reactive to this-in many years I have seen various cases of tardive dyskinesia from phenothiazine use and akathisia and other neurological

complications from many – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -meds including a single med use of ssri’s-the concern for increases in these problems with the concomitant use of ssri’s and major tranqs is perhaps a bit exagerated-so far I haven’t seen anything of enormous concern-I would have you on the same meds with the symptoms you present with an increase in your seroquel forthcoming again in a week or so nix the buspar and add xanax for now. the side effect of akathisia is very variable and tough to nail what its cause is-parkinsonian symptoms can arise from any psychoactive med and is usualy promptly stopped when the med is-vertigo also is common with these meds-trashing a sensitive nervous system is  a bit harsh-where these drugs are used indiscriminantly the overkill potential is high and side effects are indeed severe-but rarely permament. ask your doc LM

Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

philip- me being the total worrier i am, this has me worried now. i am taking zoloft and seroquel (another anti-psychotic drug) now. i wonder if this has similar problems. do you know of any site or anything where i could read more about this. i am probably totally getting worried about this for nothing (i promise i’m not too worried about that, more curious) but it kinda caught my eye there as i’m really unsure about my meds now anyway. thanks for any help philip or anyone. les.

For a somewhat different putlook on things this earlier post by our house-pdoc Margrove The Great. (TD = *tardive diskinesia* = dreaded side effect)  It is indeed a rare se (td) to any major tranq-usually occurs after high doses for long times and in women more often then men. Some are more sensitive to dopaminergic responses so they can develop it at any dose after a period of time. All the majors share this effect and unfortunately td can be permanent. Both zyprexa and risperadol are equivalent in their effect latest research indicates that ris-works better in long term treatment for psychosis but has a higher risk of td. The older meds of fixed ratio drugs like triavil have been used for years for anxiety and agitated depression-the phenothiazine perphenazine is a lousy antipsychotic so they figured they should use it for hightened anxiety. It’s effectiveness on nuerotic anxiety is pretty poor-so the use of major tranqs was regarded as overkill and a different bio responder then typical anxiety. Today anything goes and for some these meds can alleviate some underlying issues even if they are borderline which is why for some they work very well. The newer ones being the least side effect prone obviously. I have seen some impressive reults with zyprexa risper. seroquel,clozaril, moban,and navane, The main symptom reduction target is dissociation. It might be worthwhile to see that pdocs don’t always agree…. Maybe you should ask your doctor why he is prescribing Seroquel, there can be a perfectly good reason for it. The thing is taking meds *always* entails some risk, even aspirin. With whatever med (s)he prescribes the doctor should consider advantages and possible disadvantages and then decide *together with* the patient who should be informed *by the doctor but because doctors most of the time do not inform us we educate ourselves… I am quite obviously not a doctor and I know several people who are on a SSRI/antipsychotic combo without trouble. Still, other combo’s (SSRI/benzo) are more of a first choice but if you;re diagnosed with *Borderline Personality Disorder* (are you?) your meds may be perfectly allright for you. Philip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.      Zyprexa plus Zoloft equals vertigo, akathisia and                                       Parkinsons                           [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ PDI bulletin board ] Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. I think sometimes (especially with underlying Borderline problems) an antipsychotic can be used but I think it is *not* a first choice med for any garden variety anxiety disorder unless all other possibilites are exhausted. Philip Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. with respect to dr. shipko I understand his concern but find it an overreaction-please discuss this with your doc if you become too reactive to this-in many years I have seen various cases of tardive dyskinesia from phenothiazine use and akathisia and other neurological complications from many meds including a single med use of ssri’s-the concern for increases in these problems with the concomitant use of ssri’s and major tranqs is perhaps a bit exagerated-so far I haven’t seen anything of enormous concern-I would have you on the same meds with the symptoms you present with an increase in your seroquel forthcoming again in a week or so nix the buspar and add xanax for now. the side effect of akathisia is very variable and tough to nail what its cause is-parkinsonian symptoms can arise from any psychoactive med and is usualy promptly stopped when the med is-vertigo also is common with these meds-trashing a sensitive nervous system is  a bit harsh-where these drugs are used indiscriminantly the overkill potential is high and side effects are indeed severe-but rarely permament. ask your doc LM

Seroquel has such a small effect on the D2 receptor it is highly highly doubtful it will cause TD, and Zyprexia, though it hits that receptor more significantly, also antagonizes the other 3 DA receptors in such a way that it also is unlikely it will cause TD.  Use of these drugs with SSRIs may slightly increase the possibility of TD, but especially with Seroquel not enough to where it should raise concerns. SSRIs by themselves can cause akathisia, of course.  With the small doses of the atypical antipsychotics that are used for anxiety and given the sedating nature of these drugs I’d say that adding one of these ap’s would tend to lower the incidence of akathisia.  This might not be true of Risperdal and certainly probably wouldn’t be true of the typical ap’s. Matt

Response:

Here is (if all goes well technically speaking, my first attempt at *copy & paste*) a quote from Dr. Shipko.       Zyprexa plus Zoloft equals vertigo, akathisia and                                        Parkinsons                            [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ PDI bulletin board ] Posted by Dr.S. on June 14, 19100 at 09:55:42: I am posting this to warn people against the new trend toward mixing SSRI’s with antipsychotics, particularly Zyprexa. Increasingly common, this combination really trashes the sensitive nervous system. I have seen severe and unremitting neurologic problems when antipsychotics and SSRI’s are combined. Trends often start in California. It seems that doctors are STARTING new treatment by combining Zyprexa with a SSRI, much the way that physicians combine a BDZ with a SSRI. Taking this combination is playing with fire. I think sometimes (especially with underlying Borderline problems) an antipsychotic can be used but I think it is *not* a first choice med for any garden variety anxiety disorder unless all other possibilites are exhausted. Philip

Response:

Question:

My physician…is probably one of the 5 smartest guys I’ve ever met, and he studied under Stephen Stahl, who despite his occasional vacillating on certain issues, is considered quite knowledgeable about neurochemistry and the subsequent utilization of it’s pathologies in application to the inexact science of drug prescribing.

You are lucky to have those kinds of connections!  Thank you for speaking with him about the Lithium issue. I see my PDoc Monday for follow-up and I will just mention Lithium as an SSRI adjunct–no mention about Orotate, Carbonate, or Aspartate. Since he will probably know more about the Carbonate version, we will probably get nowhere. I would rather deal with my naturopath regarding the Orotate issue if my PDoc draws a blank…. Thanks again…

Response:

Hello Marie:  It does appear that this discussion has yielded considerable feedback.  I did present your posting to my doctor today.  He told me that he did not feel comfortable about the Lithium, due to toxicity issues (already discussed in prev. posts on this thread) however, as you occasionally do, you later disclosed that you are actually taking the Lithium with some guidance from a practitioner.  Had I known that upon presenting this information, I might have been able to spend more time on other areas of your post with him.  I will not tell you how to post, but the more info you give me, the more I can pass on – that much I will say. "I’m just happy now, and I will relish this moment no matter how short–or how long–it will last." The "how long" part of that suggests that you are going to continue doing what you are doing.  I hope that it works out well for you. My physician did say that he was unfamiliar with the concept of serotonin "entrapment", and that he was unsure if you were speaking of pre-synaptic or post-synaptic issues.  He is probably one of the 5 smartest guys I’ve ever met, and he studied under Stephen Stahl, who despite his occasional vacillating on certain issues, is considered quite knowledgeable about neurochemistry and the subsequent utilization of it’s pathologies in application to the inexact science of drug prescribing.  He actually even took, and passed with high scores, the Master Psychopharmacology Clinician course, under Dr. Stahl.  I only say all that so that he is not dismissed as some quack working in the south.  He has over twenty years of clinical experience as a practicing psychiatrist, and is highly regarded in the local area. I did tell you that I would tell you what he said.  I am a man of my word, and therefore I will tell you that he told me that he would not advocate using Lithium.  Margrove elaborated my own physician’s reasons very well, so I’ll just refer you back to that.  I obviously have no personal investment in the issue, and again wish you success as you try (harder than most) to find the right ingredients for yourself. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An additional comment, if you don’t mind… …give this new regimen time to see if it indeed shows evidence of working before concluding it does-you set yourself up for failure if it poops out…. Margrove, during the last five days I have felt more real and more normal than in the last five months, when a respiratory infection hit me hard and changed me for the worst. I can concentrate very well thanks to the low-dose Seroquel, the little demon of a drug I despised for months. My mind is close to the razor-sharpness I had back in June that enabled me to study physics thanks to Seroquel. The Zoloft is starting to lift the depression, and is keeping the obsessions at bay. The Lithium has put a virtual halt to the racing thoughts. Just a few days ago I could not concentrate on anyone’s conversation because I had another conversation going on inside my mind all the time. This went on for months. I don’t feel numb emotionally. I have real feelings thanks to Zoloft’s low binding to  5-HT2c, and I don’t have the Apathy Syndrome (again, thanks to the Seroquel antagonizing serotonin 2a, which all SSRIs, epecially Lexapro, bind to). OCDers are rabid perfectionists–we get depressed when we are not in out zest-for-life mode. Obsessing is what our personalities are all about. We are excruciatingly driven folks. When that zest is taken away, we go down hard. Low-dose Seroquel has become a friend. The Lithium Orotate my naturopath prescribed (and which I shelved for months) has become my friend; even the Zoloft has kept my personality intact–fiery, determined, and ambitious. If this all poops out, or just some of it, then I will go back and with my Docs tweak some more. Right now I feel *joy*, genuine joy, because my personality is intact and the racing thoughts are gone. My brain is *quiet*–I haven’t experienced that for months. I’m just happy now, and I will relish this moment no matter how short–or how long–it will last.

Response:

Zoloft doesn’t have a strong binding affinity to this receptor and also has a mild dopamine reuptake. It is weakly dompaminergic and thus may have some reactivity to those sensitive to dopamine ie: ocd patients

Thanks, Margrove, for showing up. My PDoc told me he recommended Zoloft especially for anxiety disorders and depression with significant "obsessive thoughts," whether or not accompanied by compulsions. How can one tell he/she is sensitive to dopamine? All I know is that I have been a smoker for ten years, if that helps. My PDoc told me to take the dosages as the starter pack indicated and on day *six* I had violent homicidal thoughts–not delusions, just scary thoughts and a feeling of paranoia. My obsessions are not related to harming anyone or self–they never were. I don’t have delusions; I don’t hear voices. The PDoc *didn’t believe me* and even gave me the liberty of picking another SSRI. In essence, he called me a liar and made me the doctor and told me to choose whatever SSRI I wanted. Needless to say, I lost confidence in this PDoc from that day onward, but I cannot ditch him now. I’m not rich. So far, at this low starting dose no drug-induced violent obsessions, but a *reduction* in obsessive thoughts that are mine. But being it is your body and brain be aware that lithium, a lifesaving metal, may become toxic very quickly and serum levels are mandatory, you need to be between .6 and 1.2 meq/l-you must also test for organ damage and have periodic thyroid function tests-you need medical supervision when using this drug.

The Orotate was prescribed by a licensed naturopath (Atrium brand). I work with her and my PDoc. I will ask her to order the blood tests periodically. Thank you. She did prescribe 10 mg elemental Lithium in Orotate form. It was not my decision. The Seroquel/Zoloft was prescribed by my PDoc, even though he never gave me any explanation for the use of Seroquel as he never diagnosed me with Bipolar, just OCD/Depression (the latter in partial remission). I find that the two practitioners work together in getting me well even though they share vastly different healing philosophies. controlling blood copper levels may help, you will need a pro to assist in this and monitor if they are tested at a slightly higher baseline level- a skilled naturopath may be able to deterimine your chromium glucose tolerance factor levels by interpreting a glucose tolerance test and graphing the rise and fall of insulin reaction.

Over my head but I will take this info to her. Thanks. My Pdoc just asked for routine blood work, which showed a low total serum cholesterol of 95 but nothing else of significance at this time. Thanks for your information.

Response:

The best available (that I’m aware of) is a 5 hour GTT – which begins with fasting before going in for the test – then drinking the glucose goo – and your blood levels are tested over the next 5 hours. I don’t believe the test is worth doing if not the 5 hour type.

Thanks, but how does this all tie in with anxiety and depression? I don’t understand.

Response:

An additional comment, if you don’t mind… …give this new regimen time to see if it indeed shows evidence of working before concluding it does-you set yourself up for failure if it poops out….

Margrove, during the last five days I have felt more real and more normal than in the last five months, when a respiratory infection hit me hard and changed me for the worst. I can concentrate very well thanks to the low-dose Seroquel, the little demon of a drug I despised for months. My mind is close to the razor-sharpness I had back in June that enabled me to study physics thanks to Seroquel. The Zoloft is starting to lift the depression, and is keeping the obsessions at bay. The Lithium has put a virtual halt to the racing thoughts. Just a few days ago I could not concentrate on anyone’s conversation because I had another conversation going on inside my mind all the time. This went on for months. I don’t feel numb emotionally. I have real feelings thanks to Zoloft’s low binding to  5-HT2c, and I don’t have the Apathy Syndrome (again, thanks to the Seroquel antagonizing serotonin 2a, which all SSRIs, epecially Lexapro, bind to). OCDers are rabid perfectionists–we get depressed when we are not in out zest-for-life mode. Obsessing is what our personalities are all about. We are excruciatingly driven folks. When that zest is taken away, we go down hard. Low-dose Seroquel has become a friend. The Lithium Orotate my naturopath prescribed (and which I shelved for months) has become my friend; even the Zoloft has kept my personality intact–fiery, determined, and ambitious. If this all poops out, or just some of it, then I will go back and with my Docs tweak some more. Right now I feel *joy*, genuine joy, because my personality is intact and the racing thoughts are gone. My brain is *quiet*–I haven’t experienced that for months. I’m just happy now, and I will relish this moment no matter how short–or how long–it will last.

Response:

I have started..again…on Zoloft at a very low dose (12.5 mg for one to two weeks), instead of the Luvox. Reason: Luvox loves to bond to serotonin 5-HT2c, and I don’t want to be emotionally numb.

each person has their own pecularity to medications, you may not necessarily become numbed ,or you may with any antidepressant drug. It is incredibly difficult to script ones specific response to any drug or treatment course  Zoloft doesn’t have a strong binding affinity to this receptor and also has a mild dopamine reuptake. It is weakly dompaminergic and thus may have some reactivity to those sensitive to dopamine ie: ocd patients Anyway, I have been supplementing with Lithium Orotate, only 10 mg of elemental Lithium. Whether my doctor approves or not I don’t care–it’s my brain, not his.

But being it is your body and brain be aware that lithium, a lifesaving metal, may become toxic very quickly and serum levels are mandatory, you need to be between .6 and 1.2 meq/l-you must also test for organ damage and have periodic thyroid function tests-you need medical supervision when using this drug. If you are using an available so called supplement from  a health food store. it may be vastly impure with enormous varaiations in active metal from pill to pill making control impossible-if it is a pharma product this is moot-also realize that the orotate salt makes the active metabolic lithium compound about 10 times more bioavailable then its carbonate or citrate cousins Supposedly Lithium/Lamictal are the ying and yang of the electrical conductivity of the brain (along with fish oil), with the stimulator being Lamictal (speeds up racing thoughts)

not necessarily-again things are not black and white with neurobiology-lamactil can often have calming effects, as can carbamazapine etc etc  and Lithium (slows down the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -racing thoughts); and, the SSRI/SNRIs work on the brain chemicals themselves. After taking the Orotate/fish oil, with a very low amount of Zoloft (12.5 mg), supplemented with Seroquel for serotonin 2a antagonism (especially), I have noticed a *huge* difference in improvement in only three days. I hardly have obsessive thoughts anymore (although they are not completely gone yet, but I can chase them away a lot easier); the mind-racing is really slowing down, and the depression is still there, but is rising quite *smoothly*. There are still compulsions, but not as strong. Right now I feel about 55-65% "normal" after only three days. Contrast this with nothing happening for five months via PDocs. The Orotate/fish oil/Seroquel combo are the augmenters that are helpers to the Zoloft in small doses. Any information on how else to augment I would appreciate. I’m also using Magnesium/Calcium, B-Complex and C, and multivitamin/mineral.

controlling blood copper levels may help, you will need a pro to assist in this and monitor if they are tested at a slightly higher baseline level- a skilled naturopath may be able to deterimine your chromium glucose tolerance factor levels by interpreting a glucose tolerance test and graphing the rise and fall of insulin reaction. Vit B6 and niacinamide allow the body to produce 5ht complexes better from foods that contain percursors again you need to work with a doctor or skilled practitioner and not self medicate or supplement-supplements are drugs and ingestion may have long and short term ramifications that may be rather negative But my QUESTION to you guys is really this: Is it possible for some folks with anxiety to have low serotonin, but not be able to handle large amounts of serotonin entrapment all of a sudden because these receptors are *hyper-responsive?*, IOW, chronically under-stimulated. I have zip knowledge of serotonin receptor responsivity. It’s all theory, but any input would be appreciated.

many who have anxiety problems have a maladaptive response to 5ht that is artificially altered via ssri meds Thanks.

since you respond to sub clinical doses of medications it just may be you are a very slow metabolizer of same and require low doses of medication-using lithium, seroqel and zoloft together technically is fine provided you watch out for any dyskinesia caused from excessive 5ht uploading, but requires medical supervision regardless of your medical sophistication please include your doc or another fee for service doc in this loop and get regular blood tests to see what is going on -also give this new regimen time to see if it indeed shows evidence of working before concluding it does-you set yourself up for failure if it poops out-there are many other ways to augment medical control over all kinds of conditions, some of this you may need to advocate for yourself as you already are doing, but until you find a doc who can assist informing you of other possibilities would be irresponsible

Response:

Hello Marie:  I don’t actually know the answer to this question, however I will be meeting with someone tomorrow (Thursday) for exactly one hour – and he may very well know something that may illuminate things for you.  I will run it by him via copying your post and letting him have 5 minutes of my visit to make commentary, and I’ll write down whatever he says & pass it along to you.

Thanks, Gary, very much. I’m assuming you’re aware of the metabolic relationship between ingested Lithium and dietary/excreted sodium…

Yes, but I don’t know how the Orotate version affects sodium levels vs. the Carbonate version. I’m not a chemist. Currently my last test showed *very high* elevated sodium levels, though within "normal" range. Routine blood tests will be no problem, yet any info you can provide will be much appreciated. Thank you.

Response:

As long as your sodium is between 135 and 145 milliequivalents per liter I will be happy.  ;^ (amazing how little it takes, eh) g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Marie:  I don’t actually know the answer to this question, however I will be meeting with someone tomorrow (Thursday) for exactly one hour – and he may very well know something that may illuminate things for you.  I will run it by him via copying your post and letting him have 5 minutes of my visit to make commentary, and I’ll write down whatever he says & pass it along to you. Thanks, Gary, very much. I’m assuming you’re aware of the metabolic relationship between ingested Lithium and dietary/excreted sodium… Yes, but I don’t know how the Orotate version affects sodium levels vs. the Carbonate version. I’m not a chemist. Currently my last test showed *very high* elevated sodium levels, though within "normal" range. Routine blood tests will be no problem, yet any info you can provide will be much appreciated. Thank you.

Response:

As long as your sodium is between 135 and 145 milliequivalents per liter I will be happy.  ;^

It’s at 140, so all is okay. Thanks.  : )

Response:

I have started..again…on Zoloft at a very low dose (12.5 mg for one to two weeks), instead of the Luvox. Reason: Luvox loves to bond to serotonin 5-HT2c, and I don’t want to be emotionally numb. Zoloft doesn’t have a strong binding affinity to this receptor and also has a mild dopamine reuptake. Anyway, I have been supplementing with Lithium Orotate, only 10 mg of elemental Lithium. Whether my doctor approves or not I don’t care–it’s my brain, not his. Supposedly Lithium/Lamictal are the ying and yang of the electrical conductivity of the brain (along with fish oil), with the stimulator being Lamictal (speeds up racing thoughts) and Lithium (slows down the racing thoughts); and, the SSRI/SNRIs work on the brain chemicals themselves. After taking the Orotate/fish oil, with a very low amount of Zoloft (12.5 mg), supplemented with Seroquel for serotonin 2a antagonism (especially), I have noticed a *huge* difference in improvement in only three days. I hardly have obsessive thoughts anymore (although they are not completely gone yet, but I can chase them away a lot easier); the mind-racing is really slowing down, and the depression is still there, but is rising quite *smoothly*. There are still compulsions, but not as strong. Right now I feel about 55-65% "normal" after only three days. Contrast this with nothing happening for five months via PDocs. The Orotate/fish oil/Seroquel combo are the augmenters that are helpers to the Zoloft in small doses. Any information on how else to augment I would appreciate. I’m also using Magnesium/Calcium, B-Complex and C, and multivitamin/mineral. But my QUESTION to you guys is really this: Is it possible for some folks with anxiety to have low serotonin, but not be able to handle large amounts of serotonin entrapment all of a sudden because these receptors are *hyper-responsive?*, IOW, chronically under-stimulated. I have zip knowledge of serotonin receptor responsivity. It’s all theory, but any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Response:

Hello Marie:  I don’t actually know the answer to this question, however I will be meeting with someone tomorrow (Thursday) for exactly one hour – and he may very well know something that may illuminate things for you.  I will run it by him via copying your post and letting him have 5 minutes of my visit to make commentary, and I’ll write down whatever he says & pass it along to you. I’m assuming you’re aware of the metabolic relationship between ingested Lithium and dietary/excreted sodium… G

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have started..again…on Zoloft at a very low dose (12.5 mg for one to two weeks), instead of the Luvox. Reason: Luvox loves to bond to serotonin 5-HT2c, and I don’t want to be emotionally numb. Zoloft doesn’t have a strong binding affinity to this receptor and also has a mild dopamine reuptake. Anyway, I have been supplementing with Lithium Orotate, only 10 mg of elemental Lithium. Whether my doctor approves or not I don’t care–it’s my brain, not his. Supposedly Lithium/Lamictal are the ying and yang of the electrical conductivity of the brain (along with fish oil), with the stimulator being Lamictal (speeds up racing thoughts) and Lithium (slows down the racing thoughts); and, the SSRI/SNRIs work on the brain chemicals themselves. After taking the Orotate/fish oil, with a very low amount of Zoloft (12.5 mg), supplemented with Seroquel for serotonin 2a antagonism (especially), I have noticed a *huge* difference in improvement in only three days. I hardly have obsessive thoughts anymore (although they are not completely gone yet, but I can chase them away a lot easier); the mind-racing is really slowing down, and the depression is still there, but is rising quite *smoothly*. There are still compulsions, but not as strong. Right now I feel about 55-65% "normal" after only three days. Contrast this with nothing happening for five months via PDocs. The Orotate/fish oil/Seroquel combo are the augmenters that are helpers to the Zoloft in small doses. Any information on how else to augment I would appreciate. I’m also using Magnesium/Calcium, B-Complex and C, and multivitamin/mineral. But my QUESTION to you guys is really this: Is it possible for some folks with anxiety to have low serotonin, but not be able to handle large amounts of serotonin entrapment all of a sudden because these receptors are *hyper-responsive?*, IOW, chronically under-stimulated. I have zip knowledge of serotonin receptor responsivity. It’s all theory, but any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

Response:

Question:

iJah wrote:

This is real good to know Steve. I appreciate the info greatly, but now i’m overwhelmed trying to figure out the interactions between my meds.

Most major pharmacy chains have all this on their computers by now.  In fact, I have found that pharmacists at Walgreens and CVS are willing to check out potential drug interactions on their computer, even before I’ve filled prescriptions there.  So just ask them and they will run the check for you on any meds you want. If you want to spend the money, you can even buy drug-interaction software for your computer at home. — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email:  sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -iJah wrote:

I’m having a rough time getting an answer so I can make a decision on whether to take antibiotics or not. I’ve got a very nasty little sinus infection going – it’s been lurking for about 4-6 days now and doesn’t seem like it’s gonna go away. I’m just guessing it’s not viral. today i really feel sickly. I have access to antibiotics that I was given last winter but did not use – a tri-pak of Zithromax and I also have some good old fashioned Penicillin VK 250mg  tablets. However, I’m taking a pretty strong drug for anxiety/depression/insomnia called Seroquel which has me a bit scared Need to know if it’s OK to take either of those antibiotics with Seroquel and even better, if it’s OK – which antibiotic to use – and since the antibiotics are over a year old do they still have potency?

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 17:02:04 GMT, "Steven L." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net

wrote: You need to ask your doctor or pharmacist, but I *think* you should be all right.  (These days, CVS and Walgreens have drug interactions on their computers and can check quickly.)  I wouldn’t use either one for a sinus infection though.  Why aren’t you seeing a doctor if you’re sick? Now, for my world-famous (ha-ha) lecture on Drug Interactions 101: Chemically, Zithromax is a funny beast.  Technically it’s in the same category as Biaxin and erythromycin, but its unique chemical structure causes it to have fewer interactions with Seroquel than either Biaxin or erythromycin would. If you want to learn more about the magic of drug interactions, surf the Internet and study up on an enzyme system called "Cytochrome P450." This class of about ten different enzymes is needed to metabolize certain drugs and get them out of your system, so they don’t build up in your body every time you take the next dose. Erythromycin (or Biaxin) inhibits the action of Cytochrome P450 3A4, an enzyme needed for the metabolism of Seroquel.  (Zithromax does NOT inhibit that enzyme.)  That’s why those two drugs, erythromycin and Seroquel, cannot be taken together (unless you cut way back on your dose of Seroquel).  With that enzyme inhibited, the blood level of Seroquel will continue to rise in your body every time you take another dose. That’s how this game is played:  Some drugs and foods *inhibit* certain P450 enzymes.  Some other drugs and foods *potentiate* certain P450 enzymes, and yet other drugs like Seroquel *need* to be metabolized by one of those enzymes (Seroquel is a so-called enzyme "substrate"). So that’s how the game is played:  Take a P450 inhibitor of some enzyme X with a P450 substrate of X, and the substrate will build up in your body, causing side effects.  Take a potentiator of X with a substrate of X, and the substrate will be metabolized too quickly, so you get a less effective dose in your body.  And here’s the chart: http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/table.htm

This is real good to know Steve. I appreciate the info greatly, but now i’m overwhelmed trying to figure out the interactions between my meds. I’m on two blood pressure meds, but which do something with P450 enzyme and then Seroquel and from time to time other oddball meds. Good lord, no doctor or pharmacist has ever mentioned this to me. I tend to think now that some cardiac/circulatory ‘events’ i’ve had are due to the enzyme interplay.

Response:

Call your drugstore about mixing your Meds. If they are safe to take together. shirleyann

Response:

On 1/27/06 2:30 AM, in article 20849-43D9F64C-…@storefull-3138.bay.webtv.net, "Shirley Ann" <shirleya…@webtv.net

wrote: Call your drugstore about mixing your Meds. If they are safe to take together. shirleyann

The title of this stream is off topic, but it really is not off topic. Drug interactions are terribly important and the FDA/ legal profession makes it much more difficult because the PDR and package insert all list the same 101 side effects, so hardly anyone knows which are the significant ones and which are the real ones. What is even more confusing, some of the studies they list compare placebo with the drug, with more side effects from the placebo. The drugs that I use every single day and have the most knowledge about lists side effects I have never seen or heard of. If you are taking medications your safest bet is to use one pharmacist who gets to know you. This method saved my son in lows life, when he showed up with an Rx which, had he taken with his other meds, might have killed him. The pharmacist, who fills his meds regularly, recognized that he shouldn’t be taking the new Rx. This practice is even more needed today, when we have a shortage of pharmacists and they are required to move quickly. Another problem is that your foot doctor prescribes one drug, your heart doctor another, your lung doctor another, etc You really need your own pharmacist to keep track. I guess that’s why I try to avoid any Rx and stick to saline nose drops when patients present with 8 or more drugs I know nothing about.

Response:

I’m having a rough time getting an answer so I can make a decision on whether to take antibiotics or not. I’ve got a very nasty little sinus infection going – it’s been lurking for about 4-6 days now and doesn’t seem like it’s gonna go away. I’m just guessing it’s not viral. today i really feel sickly. I have access to antibiotics that I was given last winter but did not use – a tri-pak of Zithromax and I also have some good old fashioned Penicillin VK 250mg  tablets. However, I’m taking a pretty strong drug for anxiety/depression/insomnia called Seroquel which has me a bit scared Need to know if it’s OK to take either of those antibiotics with Seroquel and even better, if it’s OK – which antibiotic to use – and since the antibiotics are over a year old do they still have potency? Anyone know about combining these meds?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -iJah wrote:

I’m having a rough time getting an answer so I can make a decision on whether to take antibiotics or not. I’ve got a very nasty little sinus infection going – it’s been lurking for about 4-6 days now and doesn’t seem like it’s gonna go away. I’m just guessing it’s not viral. today i really feel sickly. I have access to antibiotics that I was given last winter but did not use – a tri-pak of Zithromax and I also have some good old fashioned Penicillin VK 250mg  tablets. However, I’m taking a pretty strong drug for anxiety/depression/insomnia called Seroquel which has me a bit scared Need to know if it’s OK to take either of those antibiotics with Seroquel and even better, if it’s OK – which antibiotic to use – and since the antibiotics are over a year old do they still have potency? Anyone know about combining these meds?

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006 10:12:39 -0500, Susan <neverm…@nomail.com

wrote:

I’ll address two points. 1) 4-6 days is not very long for a sinus infection to clear.  You don’t say whether you’ve tried frequent saline irrigation, along with decongestants and/or mucus thinners.  If not, I’d try that before taking antibiotics.  In my experience, it takes at least 30 days of them to clear an infection; less may just piss it off and make it resistant to the drugs. 2)  For answers to questions about drug interactions, check out rxlist.com Susan

Thanks Susan. I understand, but I’m a real baby/whiner – six days being ill feels like a long time. I suppose there are many in this discussion group who would be thrilled to have an infection that only lasted a week. I’ll probably take your advice and hold off on the antibiotics.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -iJah wrote:

I’m having a rough time getting an answer so I can make a decision on whether to take antibiotics or not. I’ve got a very nasty little sinus infection going – it’s been lurking for about 4-6 days now and doesn’t seem like it’s gonna go away. I’m just guessing it’s not viral. today i really feel sickly. I have access to antibiotics that I was given last winter but did not use – a tri-pak of Zithromax and I also have some good old fashioned Penicillin VK 250mg  tablets. However, I’m taking a pretty strong drug for anxiety/depression/insomnia called Seroquel which has me a bit scared Need to know if it’s OK to take either of those antibiotics with Seroquel and even better, if it’s OK – which antibiotic to use – and since the antibiotics are over a year old do they still have potency?

You need to ask your doctor or pharmacist, but I *think* you should be all right.  (These days, CVS and Walgreens have drug interactions on their computers and can check quickly.)  I wouldn’t use either one for a sinus infection though.  Why aren’t you seeing a doctor if you’re sick? Now, for my world-famous (ha-ha) lecture on Drug Interactions 101: Chemically, Zithromax is a funny beast.  Technically it’s in the same category as Biaxin and erythromycin, but its unique chemical structure causes it to have fewer interactions with Seroquel than either Biaxin or erythromycin would. If you want to learn more about the magic of drug interactions, surf the Internet and study up on an enzyme system called "Cytochrome P450." This class of about ten different enzymes is needed to metabolize certain drugs and get them out of your system, so they don’t build up in your body every time you take the next dose. Erythromycin (or Biaxin) inhibits the action of Cytochrome P450 3A4, an enzyme needed for the metabolism of Seroquel.  (Zithromax does NOT inhibit that enzyme.)  That’s why those two drugs, erythromycin and Seroquel, cannot be taken together (unless you cut way back on your dose of Seroquel).  With that enzyme inhibited, the blood level of Seroquel will continue to rise in your body every time you take another dose. That’s how this game is played:  Some drugs and foods *inhibit* certain P450 enzymes.  Some other drugs and foods *potentiate* certain P450 enzymes, and yet other drugs like Seroquel *need* to be metabolized by one of those enzymes (Seroquel is a so-called enzyme "substrate"). So that’s how the game is played:  Take a P450 inhibitor of some enzyme X with a P450 substrate of X, and the substrate will build up in your body, causing side effects.  Take a potentiator of X with a substrate of X, and the substrate will be metabolized too quickly, so you get a less effective dose in your body.  And here’s the chart: http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/table.htm — Steven D. Litvintchouk Email:  sdlit…@earthlinkNOSPAM.net Remove the NOSPAM before replying to me.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Steven L. wrote:

iJah wrote: I’m having a rough time getting an answer so I can make a decision on whether to take antibiotics or not. I’ve got a very nasty little sinus infection going – it’s been lurking for about 4-6 days now and doesn’t seem like it’s gonna go away. I’m just guessing it’s not viral. today i really feel sickly. I have access to antibiotics that I was given last winter but did not use – a tri-pak of Zithromax and I also have some good old fashioned Penicillin VK 250mg  tablets. However, I’m taking a pretty strong drug for anxiety/depression/insomnia called Seroquel which has me a bit scared Need to know if it’s OK to take either of those antibiotics with Seroquel and even better, if it’s OK – which antibiotic to use – and since the antibiotics are over a year old do they still have potency? You need to ask your doctor or pharmacist, but I *think* you should be all right.  (These days, CVS and Walgreens have drug interactions on their computers and can check quickly.)  I wouldn’t use either one for a sinus infection though.  Why aren’t you seeing a doctor if you’re sick? Now, for my world-famous (ha-ha) lecture on Drug Interactions 101: Chemically, Zithromax is a funny beast.  Technically it’s in the same category as Biaxin and erythromycin, but its unique chemical structure causes it to have fewer interactions with Seroquel than either Biaxin or erythromycin would. If you want to learn more about the magic of drug interactions, surf the Internet and study up on an enzyme system called "Cytochrome P450." This class of about ten different enzymes is needed to metabolize certain drugs and get them out of your system, so they don’t build up in your body every time you take the next dose. Erythromycin (or Biaxin) inhibits the action of Cytochrome P450 3A4, an enzyme needed for the metabolism of Seroquel.  (Zithromax does NOT inhibit that enzyme.)  That’s why those two drugs, erythromycin and Seroquel, cannot be taken together (unless you cut way back on your dose of Seroquel).  With that enzyme inhibited, the blood level of Seroquel will continue to rise in your body every time you take another dose. That’s how this game is played:  Some drugs and foods *inhibit* certain P450 enzymes.  Some other drugs and foods *potentiate* certain P450 enzymes, and yet other drugs like Seroquel *need* to be metabolized by one of those enzymes (Seroquel is a so-called enzyme "substrate"). So that’s how the game is played:  Take a P450 inhibitor of some enzyme X with a P450 substrate of X, and the substrate will build up in your body, causing side effects.  Take a potentiator of X with a substrate of X, and the substrate will be metabolized too quickly, so you get a less effective dose in your body.  And here’s the chart: http://medicine.iupui.edu/flockhart/table.htm

On Biaxin I get high! Its got mania as a side effect so watch Biaxin with Seroquel — preesi ~~~~~~~~~ "Goodnight Shoebootie!" ~~~~~~~~~ My Websites and Favorite Links: http://tinyurl.com/yvw45 Yahoo/SidekickII Name: MissPreesi Skype: Preesi

Response:

Question:

WS earlier asked what seroquel is.  Its an atypical antipsychotic, shown to have fewer side effects than the others.  And it is now being used for TS. A lot of people on ast have had success with seroquel.  I am currently on 25mg (200mg was what I was suposed to be on)  and its has me near comatose, even after a week at this level.  Docs say this is extremely unusual for a 125 lb adult. (Not 125 lbs for long; all I do is eat and sleep).   I’m also on depakote, so under docs suggestion I might try reducing that to see if I wake up. I feel like I’m playing tourette roulette with a tranquilizer gun. Alex aka rip van winkle — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com   — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com  – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator

Response:

A new doctor of mine mentioned some of the newer "atypical" antipsychotics and said he had a little information on them being used for TS,  but from what I have heard from other people, it knocks them out just as quickly as the regular antipsychotics, and didn’t seem to help tics much.  I am very med sensitive so I chose not to try the one he recommended (Zyprexa) at the time.  Maybe later. I need the few moments of alert time that I do have.  

Response:

Question:

Those are good suggestions, Erik. I might try them if and when I move. I should check into some volunteer work while I’m here. I’m not very familiar with what this town has to offer in the way of recreation. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

Erik, I think that my friends and I lost contact with each other because we went our separate ways. This happened at a time when was hard for me to meet new people. I wasn’t in an environment, like college, where it was easy to make friends. I don’t think that OCD had much to do with it, but it was upsetting for me because I was an introvert by nature, and I found myself in places where it was difficult to meet people. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

I meant to type that I was an *extrovert* by nature. Maybe I turned into more of an *introvert* after not being in the best places to make new friends. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

How about joining a club?  There’s a sailing club in town that I keep threatening to get into. Here’s some thoughts from my area:  Scuba lessons.  Graduate school.  Boy’s Clubs.   Health club.  12-step group.  Sierra Club.  Volunteer at the hospital.   etc., etc. Call your rec center.  There’s usually some class listing you can take in your spare time. Just thinking out loud…. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nick Murphy wrote:

I meant to type that I was an *extrovert* by nature. Maybe I turned into more of an *introvert* after not being in the best places to make new friends. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic.  I found it more or less by accident.  I was having chronic migraines, and somebody reported that Seroquel work very well for them.  I talked my pdoc into it, and I took a 25mg dose and fell asleep for 12 hours (badly needed).  I awoke to a very different world.  My migraine was gone, but so was most of my anxiety and OCD. The neat thing about Seroquel is it works overnight.  You don’t need to wait the 8 week trial to see if it’s working. Just a warning if any tries it, it can make you very sleepy and also have very low blood pressue, so you feel rotten. The answer is to wean on very slowly.  I’d start at 6.25mg and work up. I’ve been SSRI intolerant, but I’ve been able to wean onto Lexapro with Seroquel.  It’s hard to describe, but an SSRI makes my anxiety go way *way* out of control. In hind sight, I may well have a psychotic disorder.  I’ve since read articles about psychotic depressions that are all too familiar and all of my moving around and travel is very typical of a psychotic disorder. Psychiatry/psychology is not an exact science, so it’s hard to come up with a diffinitive diagnosis.  However, in my case, it seems to fit. It’s hard to admit this (above), but it’s also difficult to dodge the truth.  The value in it is that I finally have some good pschiatric care, so I can get back to living my life. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WingedMonkeyBat wrote:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org wrote in message news:R8PAb.5514$rG.1342@bignews3.bellsouth.net… WingedMonkeyBat wrote: you can see the predicament im in. You should work with your pdoc, but OCD’er are generally not suicidal.  We’re a tortured lot, definitely, but not generally a suicide risk.  You mentioned that you also have bulimia.  It’s very common for OCD to be comorbid with other disorders such as garden variety depression, anxiety disorders, psychotic depressions, or even a psychotic disorder. Scary stuff, I know.  However, you need to get adequate treatment for it and therapy to challenge these faulty beliefs.  You’ve mentioned suicide a number of times almost casually.  I don’t know if you’re high risk, but don’t give up hope.  There is very good treatments and more coming soon, plenty of avenues to try.  You just need to stick with a pdoc that is worth his salt and keep going back until you’re satisified. Time has this really bad habit of slipping by.  When I was depressed and active OCD, I felt pages would flip by on the calendar and before I knew it six months would slip by.  I was just coping and hoping that the next day would be better, but it never was. If you think 24 is bad, I’m nearly 40 and just received adequate treatment last year.  I’m currently taking Seroquel and Lexapro.  It’s working really (really) well.  I’ve basically fully recovered, and I’m thinking of going (back) to graduate school (that I put off when I was 23 because of ocd/depression). Erik Ive got Depression,OCD and Bulimia.Ive been evaluated by a psychiatrist and put on 60mgs of Prozac.It has helped in numbing the emotional pain of depression but not my OCD.I see a community psychiatric nurse every 2 weeks and am waiting to see a consellor.Im on the waiting list for a psychologist.Its not the OCD that is making me depressed its more the faulty thoughts i have but the faulty thoughts are driving the OCD and bulimia.What is Seroquel?.

Response:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

news:R8PAb.5514$rG.1342@bignews3.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

WingedMonkeyBat wrote:   you can see the predicament im in. You should work with your pdoc, but OCD’er are generally not suicidal.  We’re a tortured lot, definitely, but not generally a suicide risk.  You mentioned that you also have bulimia.  It’s very common for OCD to be comorbid with other disorders such as garden variety depression, anxiety disorders, psychotic depressions, or even a psychotic disorder. Scary stuff, I know.  However, you need to get adequate treatment for it and therapy to challenge these faulty beliefs.  You’ve mentioned suicide a number of times almost casually.  I don’t know if you’re high risk, but don’t give up hope.  There is very good treatments and more coming soon, plenty of avenues to try.  You just need to stick with a pdoc that is worth his salt and keep going back until you’re satisified. Time has this really bad habit of slipping by.  When I was depressed and active OCD, I felt pages would flip by on the calendar and before I knew it six months would slip by.  I was just coping and hoping that the next day would be better, but it never was. If you think 24 is bad, I’m nearly 40 and just received adequate treatment last year.  I’m currently taking Seroquel and Lexapro.  It’s working really (really) well.  I’ve basically fully recovered, and I’m thinking of going (back) to graduate school (that I put off when I was 23 because of ocd/depression). Erik

Ive got Depression,OCD and Bulimia.Ive been evaluated by a psychiatrist and put on 60mgs of Prozac.It has helped in numbing the emotional pain of depression but not my OCD.I see a community psychiatric nurse every 2 weeks and am waiting to see a consellor.Im on the waiting list for a psychologist.Its not the OCD that is making me depressed its more the faulty thoughts i have but the faulty thoughts are driving the OCD and bulimia.What is Seroquel?.

Response:

Curious.  Do you think your OCD took off after 30 and prevented friendships? I found that a friend needs plenty of attention.  They just don’t understand when you don’t return or initiate calls. When I was 29-31, my OCD went into remission for unknown reasons.  I still think of it as the best time in my life. It was a period of tremendous personal growth, but then the beast came back with a vengence.  I had a very rough 8 years before getting some decent treatment. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nick Murphy wrote:

You wrote that you met your first friend when you were thirty. I have a different variation on the same theme. I had many friends before I turned thirty, but I met few or no friends after that. The grass is always greener…. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

You wrote that you met your first friend when you were thirty. I have a different variation on the same theme. I had many friends before I turned thirty, but I met few or no friends after that. The grass is always greener…. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

WingedMonkeyBat Dont worry at 24 you’ve still got plenty of time to enjoy life. I am approaching 33 and my life is racing by. I’ve never had a relationship, wasnt bothered at first but know it does bother me. Its only now I am starting to get any real treatment for my OCD. At least you are looking for answers to your problems now, dont let things slide like I have done. BTW if this woman is flaunting her new boyfriend then she really isnt worth bothering about. Lawrence "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

news:_VLAb.1708$mA.32142599@news-text.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

> news:Y5GAb.18849$mG.13692@bignews5.bellsouth.net… > > I’m afraid it took me awhile to become aware of it.  I was a > > very opaque person, and it took quite a bit of effort to > > gain the self-knowledge that I needed to start to deal with > > these issues.  It was a long road for me, but I think it can > > be dramatically shortened by starting early and working with > > a empathetic and insightful therapist.  (Behavoural > > therapists just seem to rewire your buttons without getting > > at the core issues.  They have some useful techniques, but I > > suspect you need something a little different.  At least it > > was true for me.) > > Also, I benefited greatly from medication.  I’m taking > > Seroquel & Lexapro (US tradenames), and it gave me the > > safety that I needed to work on some of my personal issues. > >   (Highly recommended.) > > I don’t mean to cast a shadow on your mum.  She may be very > > loving, but I do know what you mean about feeling more > > comfortable around strangers.  For me, it was a faulty > > belief that once they get to know me, they won’t like me.  I > > was thirty before I made my first friend.  (True confession.) > > Take care & keep writing.  This is a good group to express > > your feelings. > > Erik > > WingedMonkeyBat wrote: > > > "Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

> > > news:u9mAb.961$IF.175@bignews4.bellsouth.net… > > >>Ah yes, your post brings back fond memories.  I have a > > >>similar issue, but I turned it into an advantage by taking > > >>on work that required travel.  I literally traveled the > > >>world and have quite a few stamps in my passport. > > >>I actually get very anxious if I’m stuck in a rut and do the > > >>same job, day after day for very long.  I seem to need the > > >>endless variety, and have moved more times then I can count. > > >>I’ve been working through some of these issues as the > > >>recession has basically grounded me.  As you found out, > > >>these rituals are actually very inefficient and not > > >>conducive to getting work done (school in your case). > > >>In my case, I had a faulty belief that "if I establish a > > >>pattern, I will by thwarted, attacked, and ridiculed."  This > > >>belief is not without merit as I was raised in a family of > > >>controlling abusive snipes and I was literally tormented for > > >>years by them.  However, in the world outside my family, > > >>this belief doesn’t hold true and is counter productive. > > >>I’d look for a good cognitive therapist.  Personally, I’d > > >>avoid the behavior therapists (ie, CBT) as I suspect, you’d > > >>just spin your wheels.  You need some insight into why you > > >>feel like a hunted animal when you’re not anonymously riding > > >>a bus. > > >>Erik > > >>WingedMonkeyBat wrote: > > >>>I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is > > >>>travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about > > > 5-6hours.When > > >>>im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my

safe places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also

have

bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it. Hi Eric,i can totally understand what youre saying there.I cant hold down a sort of work routine either,after a few months i get sooooo depressed

im

literally suicidal. Did you actually know what you were thinking about being "thwarted,attacked and ridiculed" or did that only come out in therapy. I think i sort of know why i do it.Its very strange but i actually

feel

more "loved" by strangers than i do with my mum with whom i live with.Its like i can get acceptance from people by them just ignoring me on a bus.Its really weird but im sure it all comes down to something to do with that.Whatever is going on in my head,its just a nightmare i cant get a minutes peace

from

it. "For me, it was a faulty belief that once they get to know me, they won’t like me.  I was thirty before I made my first friend." Yep,totally agree!.Ive just sabbotaged a potential relationship because i didnt feel "worthy enough" and i felt under pressure to be constantly witty,funny otherwise id be "dumped".Considering im 24 and it wouldve been my first relationship you can see the predicament im in.It doesnt help now that the other person seems to be rubbing the fact that she has a

boyfriend

now in and its making me feel almost suicidal.

Response:

WingedMonkeyBat wrote:

 

you can see the predicament im in.

You should work with your pdoc, but OCD’er are generally not suicidal.  We’re a tortured lot, definitely, but not generally a suicide risk.  You mentioned that you also have bulimia.  It’s very common for OCD to be comorbid with other disorders such as garden variety depression, anxiety disorders, psychotic depressions, or even a psychotic disorder. Scary stuff, I know.  However, you need to get adequate treatment for it and therapy to challenge these faulty beliefs.  You’ve mentioned suicide a number of times almost casually.  I don’t know if you’re high risk, but don’t give up hope.  There is very good treatments and more coming soon, plenty of avenues to try.  You just need to stick with a pdoc that is worth his salt and keep going back until you’re satisified. Time has this really bad habit of slipping by.  When I was depressed and active OCD, I felt pages would flip by on the calendar and before I knew it six months would slip by.  I was just coping and hoping that the next day would be better, but it never was. If you think 24 is bad, I’m nearly 40 and just received adequate treatment last year.  I’m currently taking Seroquel and Lexapro.  It’s working really (really) well.  I’ve basically fully recovered, and I’m thinking of going (back) to graduate school (that I put off when I was 23 because of ocd/depression). Erik

Response:

Thanks, Keep visiting. Take it easy Lawrence "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

news:RkxAb.1181$Gh.27229346@news-text.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "loz" <lawrence.whale@ntlworld-REMOVE_THIS-.com

wrote in message

> news:D_pAb.1049$Jd7.8520@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net… > > Hi ya WingedMonkeyBat > > You may recognize me from UPSD. > > It sounds like OCD. You’ve come up with the obsession that you are only > safe > > on the bus, the compulsion is to get on it to feel safe. If you dont you > > feel very anxiuos. I have loads of OCD rituals that I must perform and if

I try to break free from them I get stressed, anxious panicky etc. They

are > > mostly mental, I dont check locks, wash my hands alot etc. > > Hopefully work with a psycholgist can help you to break free from them. > The > > antidepressants are supposed to help as well. > > This is a great OCD group so keep visiting. > > Cheers > > Lawrence > > "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

> > news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… > > > I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is > > > travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about > > 5-6hours.When > > > im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my > > safe > > > places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very

difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream

inside

and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that

lasted

2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also

have

bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it. Hi Loz, Good to see you here!.

Response:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

news:Y5GAb.18849$mG.13692@bignews5.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m afraid it took me awhile to become aware of it.  I was a > very opaque person, and it took quite a bit of effort to > gain the self-knowledge that I needed to start to deal with > these issues.  It was a long road for me, but I think it can > be dramatically shortened by starting early and working with > a empathetic and insightful therapist.  (Behavoural > therapists just seem to rewire your buttons without getting > at the core issues.  They have some useful techniques, but I > suspect you need something a little different.  At least it > was true for me.) > Also, I benefited greatly from medication.  I’m taking > Seroquel & Lexapro (US tradenames), and it gave me the > safety that I needed to work on some of my personal issues. >   (Highly recommended.) > I don’t mean to cast a shadow on your mum.  She may be very > loving, but I do know what you mean about feeling more > comfortable around strangers.  For me, it was a faulty > belief that once they get to know me, they won’t like me.  I > was thirty before I made my first friend.  (True confession.) > Take care & keep writing.  This is a good group to express > your feelings. > Erik > WingedMonkeyBat wrote: > > "Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

> > news:u9mAb.961$IF.175@bignews4.bellsouth.net… > >>Ah yes, your post brings back fond memories.  I have a > >>similar issue, but I turned it into an advantage by taking > >>on work that required travel.  I literally traveled the > >>world and have quite a few stamps in my passport. > >>I actually get very anxious if I’m stuck in a rut and do the > >>same job, day after day for very long.  I seem to need the > >>endless variety, and have moved more times then I can count. > >>I’ve been working through some of these issues as the > >>recession has basically grounded me.  As you found out, > >>these rituals are actually very inefficient and not > >>conducive to getting work done (school in your case). > >>In my case, I had a faulty belief that "if I establish a > >>pattern, I will by thwarted, attacked, and ridiculed."  This > >>belief is not without merit as I was raised in a family of > >>controlling abusive snipes and I was literally tormented for > >>years by them.  However, in the world outside my family, > >>this belief doesn’t hold true and is counter productive. > >>I’d look for a good cognitive therapist.  Personally, I’d > >>avoid the behavior therapists (ie, CBT) as I suspect, you’d > >>just spin your wheels.  You need some insight into why you > >>feel like a hunted animal when you’re not anonymously riding > >>a bus. > >>Erik > >>WingedMonkeyBat wrote: > >>>I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is > >>>travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about > > 5-6hours.When > >>>im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my > > safe > >>>places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very

difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream

inside

and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that

lasted

2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it. Hi Eric,i can totally understand what youre saying there.I cant hold

down a

sort of work routine either,after a few months i get sooooo depressed im literally suicidal. Did you actually know what you were thinking about being

"thwarted,attacked

and ridiculed" or did that only come out in therapy. I think i sort of know why i do it.Its very strange but i actually feel

more

"loved" by strangers than i do with my mum with whom i live with.Its

like i

can get acceptance from people by them just ignoring me on a bus.Its

really

weird but im sure it all comes down to something to do with

that.Whatever is

going on in my head,its just a nightmare i cant get a minutes peace from

it.

"For me, it was a faulty belief that once they get to know me, they won’t like me.  I was thirty before I made my first friend." Yep,totally agree!.Ive just sabbotaged a potential relationship because i didnt feel "worthy enough" and i felt under pressure to be constantly witty,funny otherwise id be "dumped".Considering im 24 and it wouldve been my first relationship you can see the predicament im in.It doesnt help now that the other person seems to be rubbing the fact that she has a boyfriend now in and its making me feel almost suicidal.

Response:

I’m afraid it took me awhile to become aware of it.  I was a very opaque person, and it took quite a bit of effort to gain the self-knowledge that I needed to start to deal with these issues.  It was a long road for me, but I think it can be dramatically shortened by starting early and working with a empathetic and insightful therapist.  (Behavoural therapists just seem to rewire your buttons without getting at the core issues.  They have some useful techniques, but I suspect you need something a little different.  At least it was true for me.) Also, I benefited greatly from medication.  I’m taking Seroquel & Lexapro (US tradenames), and it gave me the safety that I needed to work on some of my personal issues.   (Highly recommended.) I don’t mean to cast a shadow on your mum.  She may be very loving, but I do know what you mean about feeling more comfortable around strangers.  For me, it was a faulty belief that once they get to know me, they won’t like me.  I was thirty before I made my first friend.  (True confession.) Take care & keep writing.  This is a good group to express your feelings. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WingedMonkeyBat wrote:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org wrote in message news:u9mAb.961$IF.175@bignews4.bellsouth.net… Ah yes, your post brings back fond memories.  I have a similar issue, but I turned it into an advantage by taking on work that required travel.  I literally traveled the world and have quite a few stamps in my passport. I actually get very anxious if I’m stuck in a rut and do the same job, day after day for very long.  I seem to need the endless variety, and have moved more times then I can count. I’ve been working through some of these issues as the recession has basically grounded me.  As you found out, these rituals are actually very inefficient and not conducive to getting work done (school in your case). In my case, I had a faulty belief that "if I establish a pattern, I will by thwarted, attacked, and ridiculed."  This belief is not without merit as I was raised in a family of controlling abusive snipes and I was literally tormented for years by them.  However, in the world outside my family, this belief doesn’t hold true and is counter productive. I’d look for a good cognitive therapist.  Personally, I’d avoid the behavior therapists (ie, CBT) as I suspect, you’d just spin your wheels.  You need some insight into why you feel like a hunted animal when you’re not anonymously riding a bus. Erik WingedMonkeyBat wrote: I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about 5-6hours.When im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my safe places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it. Hi Eric,i can totally understand what youre saying there.I cant hold down a sort of work routine either,after a few months i get sooooo depressed im literally suicidal. Did you actually know what you were thinking about being "thwarted,attacked and ridiculed" or did that only come out in therapy. I think i sort of know why i do it.Its very strange but i actually feel more "loved" by strangers than i do with my mum with whom i live with.Its like i can get acceptance from people by them just ignoring me on a bus.Its really weird but im sure it all comes down to something to do with that.Whatever is going on in my head,its just a nightmare i cant get a minutes peace from it.

Response:

"loz" <lawrence.whale@ntlworld-REMOVE_THIS-.com

wrote in message

news:D_pAb.1049$Jd7.8520@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi ya WingedMonkeyBat You may recognize me from UPSD. It sounds like OCD. You’ve come up with the obsession that you are only

safe

on the bus, the compulsion is to get on it to feel safe. If you dont you feel very anxiuos. I have loads of OCD rituals that I must perform and if

I

try to break free from them I get stressed, anxious panicky etc. They are mostly mental, I dont check locks, wash my hands alot etc. Hopefully work with a psycholgist can help you to break free from them.

The > antidepressants are supposed to help as well. > This is a great OCD group so keep visiting. > Cheers > Lawrence > "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

> news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… > > I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is > > travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about > 5-6hours.When > > im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my > safe > > places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very > > difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside > and > > "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2

weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not

sure,is

it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Hi Loz, Good to see you here!.

Response:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

news:u9mAb.961$IF.175@bignews4.bellsouth.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Ah yes, your post brings back fond memories.  I have a similar issue, but I turned it into an advantage by taking on work that required travel.  I literally traveled the world and have quite a few stamps in my passport. I actually get very anxious if I’m stuck in a rut and do the same job, day after day for very long.  I seem to need the endless variety, and have moved more times then I can count. I’ve been working through some of these issues as the recession has basically grounded me.  As you found out, these rituals are actually very inefficient and not conducive to getting work done (school in your case). In my case, I had a faulty belief that "if I establish a pattern, I will by thwarted, attacked, and ridiculed."  This belief is not without merit as I was raised in a family of controlling abusive snipes and I was literally tormented for years by them.  However, in the world outside my family, this belief doesn’t hold true and is counter productive. I’d look for a good cognitive therapist.  Personally, I’d avoid the behavior therapists (ie, CBT) as I suspect, you’d just spin your wheels.  You need some insight into why you feel like a hunted animal when you’re not anonymously riding a bus. Erik WingedMonkeyBat wrote: I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about

5-6hours.When

im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my

safe

places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside

and

"run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted

2

weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not

sure,is

it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Hi Eric,i can totally understand what youre saying there.I cant hold down a sort of work routine either,after a few months i get sooooo depressed im literally suicidal. Did you actually know what you were thinking about being "thwarted,attacked and ridiculed" or did that only come out in therapy. I think i sort of know why i do it.Its very strange but i actually feel more "loved" by strangers than i do with my mum with whom i live with.Its like i can get acceptance from people by them just ignoring me on a bus.Its really weird but im sure it all comes down to something to do with that.Whatever is going on in my head,its just a nightmare i cant get a minutes peace from it.

Response:

This is OCD,  it’s my biggest ocd symptom and contamination comes in second to it.  Someone described it perfectly here on the list,  you feel like a hunted person.  The perinoia for me was tremendous without my medication.  I simply didn’t go anywhere.  When I did travel in the car to shop etc.  I would have panic attacks in the store and social anxiety, feeling that people knew something bad about me because they were looking at me. Leaving the house wasn’t much fun to say the least. There’s something about feeling like you are going to die in Wal-Mart and running from the store that doesn’t do much for me.  I’d feel like a shoplifter literaly running from the store. hahaha.  I can laugh at it now.   I take the bus also,  I’m visually impared and do not drive.  I rode the bus for years and then didn’t and now am getting back into the swing of it again.  I hate to say it,  but you just have to do it to get over it.  I’ve recently worked my way back to comfortably shopping, riding in the car and after the holidays, I’m going to be traveling to smaller towns until that feels comfortable and then on to the big kahoona which is going to TN to see my family. Choose some coping skills and get out there and prove to yourself that there is no danger.  It sucks,  I get big headaches and nervousness after difficult ERP’s  but it is worth it compared to being totaly dysfunctional. I’ve had to go through this before and after I stopped meds and therapy it came back.  Sooooo  here I go again.  You can get through this,  it just takes hard work. Good luck, Joanna "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about

5-6hours.When

im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my

safe

places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside

and

"run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

My car and my house were my safe places. It was very stressful when I sold them. I developed a terrible case of health anxiety when I didn’t have my comfort zones. I actually developed stomach problems. Nick Feel free to e-mail me. Please type, OCD, in the subject line.

Response:

Hi ya WingedMonkeyBat You may recognize me from UPSD. It sounds like OCD. You’ve come up with the obsession that you are only safe on the bus, the compulsion is to get on it to feel safe. If you dont you feel very anxiuos. I have loads of OCD rituals that I must perform and if I try to break free from them I get stressed, anxious panicky etc. They are mostly mental, I dont check locks, wash my hands alot etc. Hopefully work with a psycholgist can help you to break free from them. The antidepressants are supposed to help as well. This is a great OCD group so keep visiting. Cheers Lawrence "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about

5-6hours.When

im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my

safe

places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside

and

"run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

Ah yes, your post brings back fond memories.  I have a similar issue, but I turned it into an advantage by taking on work that required travel.  I literally traveled the world and have quite a few stamps in my passport. I actually get very anxious if I’m stuck in a rut and do the same job, day after day for very long.  I seem to need the endless variety, and have moved more times then I can count. I’ve been working through some of these issues as the recession has basically grounded me.  As you found out, these rituals are actually very inefficient and not conducive to getting work done (school in your case). In my case, I had a faulty belief that "if I establish a pattern, I will by thwarted, attacked, and ridiculed."  This belief is not without merit as I was raised in a family of controlling abusive snipes and I was literally tormented for years by them.  However, in the world outside my family, this belief doesn’t hold true and is counter productive. I’d look for a good cognitive therapist.  Personally, I’d avoid the behavior therapists (ie, CBT) as I suspect, you’d just spin your wheels.  You need some insight into why you feel like a hunted animal when you’re not anonymously riding a bus. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -WingedMonkeyBat wrote:

I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about 5-6hours.When im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my safe places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about 5-6hours.When im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my safe places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

Eating disorders and OCD are "kissing cousins". I can relate to the food obsessions myself. NK "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com

wrote in message

news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about

5-6hours.When

im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my

safe

places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside

and

"run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted 2 weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not sure,is it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

The safe zones sounds like OCD. I’m not a doctor so my thoughts are only opinions and not facts. My safe place is my room. I dont let anyone but my girlfriend in it. "No Kidding!" <nokidd…@ria.net.IF.YOU.SPAM.ME.YOU.SUCK.ROCKS

wrote in

message news:JJ9Ab.953$7p2.399@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Eating disorders and OCD are "kissing cousins". I can relate to the food obsessions myself. NK "WingedMonkeyBat" <hm…@hmmmm.com wrote in message news:AS8Ab.288$ZF.3352692@news-text.cableinet.net… I know this may sound aboslutely absurd,but my obsession is travelling.Everyday i go on buses on certain routes for about 5-6hours.When im on the bus i feel sooooo relaxed and at peace but take me out of my safe places and this routine and i get VERY agitated and upset.I find it very difficult to even visit family as ill get edgy and want to scream inside and "run" to a safe place.I tried to go to college in August but that lasted

2

weeks before i got suicidal.The shrink says this is OCD but im not

sure,is

it?.I have like "safe places" where i can go everyday where i feel comfortable but as i said take me out of that and im a mess.I also have bulimia and apparently the food obsession is tied in with it.

Response:

Question:

Has anyone been on this? I’ve just started and it’s making me really sleepy.

Response:

Im on Solian and thats similar, makes me sleepy too. Ive become a coffee junkie lol take care Chris. "viper" <bry…@netspace.net.au

wrote in message

news:blh43j$181a$1@otis.netspace.net.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Has anyone been on this? I’ve just started and it’s making me really

sleepy.

Response:

I take Seroquel which is a kissing cousin to Zyprexa.  I take it a bed time, but after about six months, the sleepy effect is wearing off.  It can also drop your blood pressure so you may feel weak or faint.  I’d recommend weaning on very, very slowly. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -viper wrote:

Has anyone been on this? I’ve just started and it’s making me really sleepy.

Response:

Has anyone had any relief from OCD by taking Zyprexa? How long does it take to work?

Response:

Hi Viper, Sorry that your not getting an answer here.  I’d give your pdoc a call and have a chat with them about what you should expect. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -viper wrote:

Has anyone had any relief from OCD by taking Zyprexa? How long does it take to work?

Response:

I would say over all zyprexa has been my all time favorite drug, when it comes to neuroleptics. I had almost no side effect exept some minor weight gain from it. I once was on seroquel, and it was horrible. It helped somewhat with my symptoms, but I got tired, and about an hour after taking the drug I experienced swallowing difficulties. It was scary, it didnt stop and I started obsessing about it. Now Im on Geodon and so far it seems like a good drug. The back draw of zyprexa is offcorse weight gain and the risk for developing type 2 diabetes.

Response:

Or to put this paradox in another way: if you do have the courage to take the medication, you don’t need it if you don’t have the courage to take it, you need it   "ikke" <i…@pondaro.nl

wrote in message

news:CWhhb.68353$Bl5.3370082@phobos.telenet-ops.be… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

> news:5b7475018cadde50847fcd1902b9d801@news.teranews.com… > >Seroquel and Abilify have a much  better track record so far, > >although something may turn up another 5  years out. > > You need to balance risk with quality of life. > This last sentence is a very nice example of the recursive character of OCD:

that medication is intended to cure the inability to balance risk with quality of life. If you are able do that, you don’t need that

medication…

Even more paradoxical:  the risk for long term side effects from this medication is probably higher than the danger one is obsessing about

Response:

"Jo-Ann" <RiverRun@ mindspring.com

wrote in message <news:c1%gb.5882$Eo2.1351@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… Does this drug have any side effects?

Yes, Zyprexa is the drug from hell.  It made me tired all day and caused me to gain 25 pounds in only 6 weeks.  It didn’t help me any and the experiment had to be stopped due to the stunning weight gain.

Response:

This is fairly common effect for Zyprexa.  Seroquel is weight neutral (ie, as many gain as loose) although YMMV. I’ve been working out and I’m on a restricted diet.  So, I’ve been making progress on improving my health.  I’ve gone almost a year without antibiotics, and I continue to see results. I used to binge on chocalate and other food, but not the case anymore. I keep chocalate in my office and I get nausious just looking at it. However, it’s a early warning system as I’ll start crave it when my medication isn’t keeping up. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -karl1…@my-deja.com wrote:

"Jo-Ann" <RiverRun@ mindspring.com wrote in message <news:c1%gb.5882$Eo2.1351@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net… Does this drug have any side effects? Yes, Zyprexa is the drug from hell.  It made me tired all day and caused me to gain 25 pounds in only 6 weeks.  It didn’t help me any and the experiment had to be stopped due to the stunning weight gain.

Response:

"Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

news:5b7475018cadde50847fcd1902b9d801@news.teranews.com…

Seroquel and Abilify have a much  better track record so far, although something may turn up another 5  years out. You need to balance risk with quality of life.

This last sentence is a very nice example of the recursive character of OCD: that medication is intended to cure the inability to balance risk with quality of life. If you are able do that, you don’t need that  medication… Even more paradoxical:  the risk for long term side effects from this medication is probably higher than the danger one is obsessing about

Response:

I just google’d around and noted that there is another study that linked these drugs to diabetes.  Seroquel was also linked, but it was statistically insignificant because of the size of the study. http://www.iht.com/articles/107675.html In addition, a lot of the people on Seroquel were originally on Zyprexa, so it warrants further investigation. Most drug makers including AstraZeneca (the maker of Seroquel) contracts with large insurance companies to do regression analysis of drug usage and diseases on large populations sets.  They did this earlier with Seroquel when problems began to emerge with Zyprexa and they noted no increase in diabetes.  I’m not going to panic. The best way to get diabetes is still to drink soda and high-carb snacks and not from these drugs. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Erik wrote:

Unmedical advice ahead… Which one, Zyprexa?   Unfortunately, yes.  Weaning on, you can expect sleepiness and dizzy, pale, and generally feeling awful from low blood pressure.  It should be taken at bedtime, and I’d get out the razor blade, and quarter or eighth it to start out on a micro-dose. Zyprexa also has some very questionable long term issues.  You can search on Google, but there’s a statistical correlation with type II diabetes and a number of chronic health issues.  Keep in mind that it’s used to treat schizophrenia which is not a particularly healthy crowd. I wouldn’t use it if I could avoid it.  Seroquel and Abilify have a much better track record so far, although something may turn up another 5 years out.  You need to balance risk with quality of life. Although the lawyers are starting to circle above Zyprexa, keep in mind that schizophrenia is nasty disease with inherent morbidity from suicide, accidents, and other causes.  Some people respond to zyprexa that don’t respond to other drugs, and overall, it’s a life saver. I’ve been on Seroquel for a year and have a perfect sleep pattern for the first time in my life.  It’s really been nothing short of a miracle, and has allowed me to get my life back.  I can’t say enough good things about it.   Weaning on was only hard when I took too much, too fast because of the blood pressure thing, but other then getting some badly need sleep it’s been side effect free.  Now that I’m caught up on sleep, the sleepiness side-effect is becoming milder. Caveat:  I’m not medically licensed so this is just gossip, hearsay, and may not even be accurate. Erik Jo-Ann wrote: Erik-Does this drug have any side effects? Jo-Ann

Response:

Erik-Does this drug have any side effects? Jo-Ann — Invalid address-Please post request to e-mail me. "Erik" <email4e…@nospam.org

wrote in message

news:bdf470298c1093d9f936213046eee0fd@news.teranews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Viper, I’m not qualified to make any medical statements, so the following is unmedical hearsay:  Keep in mind that this is a very small statistical sample here as I think only 5-6 of us are posting, so you may not get a hit on Zyprexa.  I know that Zyprexa is used to treat OCD as well as Abilify and Seroquel in this class of medications.  Unlike SSRI’s which can take 2-3 months to start working, the effect of these drugs can be almost immediate (few hours on a full stomach). Erik viper wrote: Has anyone had any relief from OCD by taking Zyprexa?

Response:

Unmedical advice ahead… Which one, Zyprexa?   Unfortunately, yes.  Weaning on, you can expect sleepiness and dizzy, pale, and generally feeling awful from low blood pressure.  It should be taken at bedtime, and I’d get out the razor blade, and quarter or eighth it to start out on a micro-dose. Zyprexa also has some very questionable long term issues.  You can search on Google, but there’s a statistical correlation with type II diabetes and a number of chronic health issues.  Keep in mind that it’s used to treat schizophrenia which is not a particularly healthy crowd. I wouldn’t use it if I could avoid it.  Seroquel and Abilify have a much better track record so far, although something may turn up another 5 years out.  You need to balance risk with quality of life. Although the lawyers are starting to circle above Zyprexa, keep in mind that schizophrenia is nasty disease with inherent morbidity from suicide, accidents, and other causes.  Some people respond to zyprexa that don’t respond to other drugs, and overall, it’s a life saver. I’ve been on Seroquel for a year and have a perfect sleep pattern for the first time in my life.  It’s really been nothing short of a miracle, and has allowed me to get my life back.  I can’t say enough good things about it.   Weaning on was only hard when I took too much, too fast because of the blood pressure thing, but other then getting some badly need sleep it’s been side effect free.  Now that I’m caught up on sleep, the sleepiness side-effect is becoming milder. Caveat:  I’m not medically licensed so this is just gossip, hearsay, and may not even be accurate. Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jo-Ann wrote:

Erik-Does this drug have any side effects? Jo-Ann

Response:

Has anyone had any relief from OCD by taking Zyprexa?

Response:

Hi Viper, I’m not qualified to make any medical statements, so the following is unmedical hearsay:  Keep in mind that this is a very small statistical sample here as I think only 5-6 of us are posting, so you may not get a hit on Zyprexa.  I know that Zyprexa is used to treat OCD as well as Abilify and Seroquel in this class of medications.  Unlike SSRI’s which can take 2-3 months to start working, the effect of these drugs can be almost immediate (few hours on a full stomach). Erik – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -viper wrote:

Has anyone had any relief from OCD by taking Zyprexa?

Response:

Question:

Hi I just started taking seraquel(this is my 5th day) and Im being weened off of Zyprexa…Im experiencing difficulty staying awake for more than 2 hours after taking seraquel..I would like to know if this effect (sedation) is permanent…

Response:

Hi FB, I took Seroquel for 2 months and did not find the sedation much worse than 3 mg./day of Risperidone so I’m probably not a good one to ask.  I went to work and everything.  I was tired and slept like a baby when I did sleep.  I probably slept 10 to 12 hours a day as well but I was awake for much more than 2 hours at a time.  It affects everyone differently.  It obviously has a bad effect on you.  Hopefully it will get better with time. Frank. Funkbaby C <funkba…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20000429163107.20437.00000402@ng-ba1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi I just started taking seraquel(this is my 5th day) and Im being weened

off

of Zyprexa…Im experiencing difficulty staying awake for more than 2

hours

after taking seraquel..I would like to know if this effect (sedation) is permanent…

Response:

In article <20000429163107.20437.00000…@ng-ba1.aol.com

, Funkbaby C

<funkba…@aol.com

wrote: Hi I just started taking seraquel(this is my 5th day) and Im being weened off of Zyprexa…Im experiencing difficulty staying awake for more than 2 hours after taking seraquel..I would like to know if this effect (sedation) is permanent…

Had the exact same problem. It does pass. My doc told me it would pass in about 2 weeks, but for me it took more like a month. I wasn’t able to do the Morning/Night dose thing though. I kept falling asleep at work. I would actually fall asleep standing up! I guess if I’d kept it up it would have passed, but I couldn’t stand it. I kept calling in sick to work, (because I completely couldn’t wake up) and I was affraid I’d lose my job. I switched to taking the whole dose at night. Not bad since I’ve had terrible insomnia for years, this knocks me out COLD. I feel pretty good in the morning, and it doesn’t seem to matter that the dose isn’t split. My doc said it was ok to do too. I don’t know about you, but with Zyprexa, this never passed, I was zonked the whole time I was on it. If this is your 5th day on Seroquel, I reckon you’ve got another 20 days or so to feel tired, but hang in with it, it will pass after a while. take care sp

Response:

thanks I hope it passes, I hope I lose the 80 pounds I gained while being on Zyprexa….hmmmmm

Response:

In article <20000430155703.08582.00000…@ng-fp1.aol.com

, Funkbaby C

<funkba…@aol.com

wrote: thanks I hope it passes, I hope I lose the 80 pounds I gained while being on Zyprexa….hmmmmm

Ummmm well I hope you do too. that was one of my primary hopes with Seroquel, cause I’d heard people lose weight on it. But allas not for me. I haven’t gained any weight, but I haven’t lost any either, dispite what I think of as starving myself. initially on Seroquel I lost about 7 pounds, and was pretty happy, but it stopped and I gained it back. by the way I gained about 60 pounds on Zyprexa, in just 4 months, it didn’t show any sign of quitting, so I got off of it. I just wish I’d never goten on it, since I’d weighed the same for years, How I wish I were back there now. SP

Response:

Question:

I used to find if I took a Fatty Acid Supplement one hour before my Seroquel I would experience less side effects that caused me to have to sit down. — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

Hi Michelle, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -michelle wrote:

Since then I have been feeling much more alert and active during the day, but am having real difficulty with sleep.  You know when you fall asleep and suddenly wake up with a JOLT!  I get that about 10-15 times every time I try and sleep and what is worse is that I wake up crying "Daddy!  Daddy!"  and I have this horrible feeling of my Dad trying to save me from something and just slipping away. Once I’ve sussed out exactly what is going on, I’ll give you (hopefully) a better report, but at the moment I am having worries and delusions about my Dad.  He is 20 years older than my Mum and we all feel he could die at any time.  He shuffles around, leaning on furniture and his memory is none existent.  I am scared that somehow I personally am holding onto his life force, and that he is dying during the night and I am somehow keeping him here. It’s all quite worrying, and I really don’t know if it’s the Seroquel that is messing around with my sleeping and my mind, or whether it is actually possible to feel my Dad’s life force slipping away, and to keep waking up holding onto him. It’s very frightening, I wake up virtually screaming "Daddy!  Daddy!" and I feel like all will be lost if I lose him. It’s at times like this you realize how useless psychiatrists are.  They give you drugs, but at the end of the day there is no one on this planet that I respect enough or who’s opinion I value enough, who could actually say to me "This is the Seroquel, ignore it" or "Yes, it is possible to be holding onto your Dad’s life force".  I feel so alone, I don’t know what to do.  I have a horrible feeling that if my Dad dies, something more important than just my little family unit will be lost, it’s a fundamental continuation of a blood line of values and trust.  I almost fear for the world.  Like air is not just air, it is atmosphere, and our happy little laughing family keeps something sacred and crucial in tact. Thanks for listening. Michelle

{{{{HUGS}}}} All we have here is words, sorry. But please know that you’re not alone. To feel as if his life force is in your hands… must be very difficult. Cherish your happy little laughing family each precious moment; the memories will live with you. None of us is promised tomorrow, no matter what our age. Death is a fact of life, and one that goes against the grain like none other. The heart rebels. It’s hard to face the fear of loss. But trust that if/when it happens, that you will see each other again. Perhaps that hope will make the thoughts of loss more bearable. Sandie — For info about this service, see http://anon.twwells.com/help/ or e-mail: h…@anon.twwells.com   — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com  – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator

Response:

"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote in message

news:Xns931F88173529Cstushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13…

Sorry to here Seroquel is not going well so far. I had a very similar experience at night with Seroquel. I would wake up with my eyes rolled

back

and stuck in that position. I occaisionally wake up in a panic with

Zyprexa

as well but not as frequently. Take Care

That sounds nasty.  I had no trouble with the Zyprexa, slept really well, a bit too well though that’s the trouble!! You said you might go for a med change, are you going to try this Abilify? It doesn’t come here to the UK until July from what I understand but I’d like to know that’s around if this Seroquel fails.  From all the reports here on the newsgroup, it sounds like it might be a good one. All the best, Michelle

Response:

"Sandie" <anon-25…@anon.twwells.com

wrote in message

news:b2bp2a$h2s$1@server2.junkproof.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

{{{{HUGS}}}} All we have here is words, sorry. But please know that you’re not alone. To feel as if his life force is in your hands… must be very difficult.

Cherish

your happy little laughing family each precious moment; the memories will

live

with you. None of us is promised tomorrow, no matter what our age. Death is a fact

of

life, and one that goes against the grain like none other. The heart

rebels.

It’s hard to face the fear of loss. But trust that if/when it happens, that you will see each other again.

Perhaps

that hope will make the thoughts of loss more bearable. Sandie

Thank you for the kind words Sandie. I have not actually come across death personally since the age of 7 when my grandparents died.  They say death is a fact of life but I just keep avoiding it and thinking it will never happen.  I am still hoping for something like the Second Coming and for my Dad to be young again and regain his sharp mind.  I remember once praying really fervently, I mean so fervently that I was weeping, that my Dad would live to see the Second Coming and I have another worry that the Second Coming is not going to happen for another 1,000 years and my Dad will be something like 1,093 years old by then!!!!! Michelle

Response:

"Qexugir" <ustu…@sympatico.ca

wrote in message

news:3E4962DE.66920F61@sympatico.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Until a couple of weeks ago, I used to wander around the apartment in my underwear, and my first act upon coming home was to strip out of my work clothes and hang them up.  Sometimes I’d even take my socks off too, and

in

spring or mid-fall even my undershirt.  Recently I’ve started wearing

track

pants and a shirt while at home.  But this is nothing to 1993, when I was hanging out with my druid friends, and the first thing everyone did on

arriving

at their house was remove *all* clothing, so that most of us spent hours

in

each other’s company completely naked.  This might be partly why I find a well-dressed woman more attractive than a photograph of a naked one, even

when

the latter is in a sexy pose. Qexugir

Clothes can be very flattering.  You can go round in the same T-shirt and jeans for weeks, and then put on a nice coloured top and everyone will notice.  Mind you, I am sure they would notice if I turned up for work naked but that’s beside the point.  I agree, that clothes are nicer than the naked body although I do like men’s biceps.  I do like to see nice strong muscular arms on a man. Sorry, am I getting too personal????  :( Michelle

Response:

"michelle" <miche…@nospamthanks.ok

wrote in

news:Gzw2a.1509$WR4.9093@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

That sounds nasty.  I had no trouble with the Zyprexa, slept really well, a bit too well though that’s the trouble!! You said you might go for a med change, are you going to try this Abilify? It doesn’t come here to the UK until July from what I understand but I’d like to know that’s around if this Seroquel fails. From all the reports here on the newsgroup, it sounds like it might be a good one. All the best, Michelle

Abilify sounds interesting to me. I have no idea what is happening with getting Abilify on the formulary here in Manitoba. It might come available but not covered by Social Assistance for a while. — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -michelle wrote:

"Qexugir" <ustu…@sympatico.ca wrote in message news:3E4962DE.66920F61@sympatico.ca… Until a couple of weeks ago, I used to wander around the apartment in my underwear, and my first act upon coming home was to strip out of my work clothes and hang them up.  Sometimes I’d even take my socks off too, and in spring or mid-fall even my undershirt.  Recently I’ve started wearing track pants and a shirt while at home.  But this is nothing to 1993, when I was hanging out with my druid friends, and the first thing everyone did on arriving at their house was remove *all* clothing, so that most of us spent hours in each other’s company completely naked.  This might be partly why I find a well-dressed woman more attractive than a photograph of a naked one, even when the latter is in a sexy pose. Qexugir Clothes can be very flattering.  You can go round in the same T-shirt and jeans for weeks, and then put on a nice coloured top and everyone will notice.  Mind you, I am sure they would notice if I turned up for work naked but that’s beside the point.  I agree, that clothes are nicer than the naked body although I do like men’s biceps.  I do like to see nice strong muscular arms on a man.

There is a story of a Victorian-age poet who was so shocked by the sight of his wife’s pubic hair that he abstained from sex for his entire life.  He had never seen a naked woman before and had some strange ideas of what a naked woman looks like.  So there is a danger when we take clothes to be part of a person’s body – but really, for most purposes, our clothes are as much a part of us as our skin.  I appreciate it when someone takes the trouble to dress nicely, even when I know that my appreciation is the last thing on that person’s mind.  (My dressing habits are pretty minimalist, tho; but I really can’t do too much to pretty up this huge belly of mine.)

Sorry, am I getting too personal????  :(

I believe all truth is ultimately personal, so no.  The more people talk about themselves, the more one can be sure of agreeing with everything they say, and that is often a comfort for someone like me, who’s always digging under things and looking above them.

Michelle

Qexugir

Response:

I vote that everybody move from alt.support.schizophrenia to alt.comedy for one day — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

michelle wrote:

"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net wrote in message news:Xns931DADB69C546stushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13… I have been up since 7:30AM and I am still in my Pyjamas. I hate being lazy. I was more active before I had a Computer. What’s wrong with being in your pyjamas if you are at home and no one sees you? I am always in my pyjamas at home, I only get dressed if I am going to work or going out.  Pyjamas are far more comfortable than streets clothes. Michelle

Until a couple of weeks ago, I used to wander around the apartment in my underwear, and my first act upon coming home was to strip out of my work clothes and hang them up.  Sometimes I’d even take my socks off too, and in spring or mid-fall even my undershirt.  Recently I’ve started wearing track pants and a shirt while at home.  But this is nothing to 1993, when I was hanging out with my druid friends, and the first thing everyone did on arriving at their house was remove *all* clothing, so that most of us spent hours in each other’s company completely naked.  This might be partly why I find a well-dressed woman more attractive than a photograph of a naked one, even when the latter is in a sexy pose. Qexugir

Response:

Sorry to here Seroquel is not going well so far. I had a very similar experience at night with Seroquel. I would wake up with my eyes rolled back and stuck in that position. I occaisionally wake up in a panic with Zyprexa as well but not as frequently. Take Care — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote in message

news:Xns931F78D73C789stushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13…

The problem is I get my Chores done but nothing else. I will do them in my PJs and I won’t get the more pressing tasks like looking for work done. A schedule for looking for work is something I haven’t done in a while. I would just like to get out once and a while and meet people. I am wondering how Seroquel is working for you. Maybe another Meds. change is in order for me. I just had an appointment with my Psychiatrist yesterday afternoon. My appointments with him are always short because I have no positive symptoms anymore and I schedule my appointments when I am busy.

As regards the Seroquel, it’s too early to say.  She recommended 300mg a day, 150mg in the morning and in the evening, and last Saturday I had worked up to the maximum dose and took 150mg in the morning, half an hour later zonked out until 3.30 in the afternoon.  Then I took my evening dose and half and hour later, zonked out until about midnight. Well that was no good!!!! The next day, I cut the meds by half, 75mg morning and evening.  That day I got CHRONIC insomnia and couldn’t sleep at all!!!! Since then I have been feeling much more alert and active during the day, but am having real difficulty with sleep.  You know when you fall asleep and suddenly wake up with a JOLT!  I get that about 10-15 times every time I try and sleep and what is worse is that I wake up crying "Daddy!  Daddy!"  and I have this horrible feeling of my Dad trying to save me from something and just slipping away. Once I’ve sussed out exactly what is going on, I’ll give you (hopefully) a better report, but at the moment I am having worries and delusions about my Dad.  He is 20 years older than my Mum and we all feel he could die at any time.  He shuffles around, leaning on furniture and his memory is none existent.  I am scared that somehow I personally am holding onto his life force, and that he is dying during the night and I am somehow keeping him here. It’s all quite worrying, and I really don’t know if it’s the Seroquel that is messing around with my sleeping and my mind, or whether it is actually possible to feel my Dad’s life force slipping away, and to keep waking up holding onto him. It’s very frightening, I wake up virtually screaming "Daddy!  Daddy!" and I feel like all will be lost if I lose him. It’s at times like this you realize how useless psychiatrists are.  They give you drugs, but at the end of the day there is no one on this planet that I respect enough or who’s opinion I value enough, who could actually say to me "This is the Seroquel, ignore it" or "Yes, it is possible to be holding onto your Dad’s life force".  I feel so alone, I don’t know what to do.  I have a horrible feeling that if my Dad dies, something more important than just my little family unit will be lost, it’s a fundamental continuation of a blood line of values and trust.  I almost fear for the world.  Like air is not just air, it is atmosphere, and our happy little laughing family keeps something sacred and crucial in tact. Thanks for listening. Michelle

Response:

"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote in message

news:Xns931F502F5DBA7stushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13…

I am just feeling too lazy lately. I don’t get the things I want to done.

A

lot of wasted time.

I really don’t like wasting time and on my more recent days on Zyprexa, was literally going to bed at 11 and waking up at 4.30 the next afternoon.  Not only was I missing some days work, but the waste of time was really getting me down.  I wouldn’t let things bug you too much, little by little, things will get done, just chip away a bit at a time.  Sometimes chores are awesome, and there just seems too much to do and I feel I will just never get a handle on it and get things done.  But if you just "make a start", perhaps just tidy up a bit or put a few things away. The trouble with chores and stuff like that, is that you can’t relax or enjoy life, because all the time are the niggly thoughts of all the stuff you should be doing. It’s the initial motivation that is so hard.  Maybe you could try setting yourself some kind of time-table?  Make a list of all the things you have to do and then allocate a time slot for each one.  It’s a great feeling crossing out chores off a list once they get done and then when you’ve done them all, believe you me, you feel GREAT!!!! Good luck. Michelle

Response:

"michelle" <miche…@nospamthanks.ok

wrote in

news:wh92a.415$WR4.2598@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I really don’t like wasting time and on my more recent days on Zyprexa, was literally going to bed at 11 and waking up at 4.30 the next afternoon.  Not only was I missing some days work, but the waste of time was really getting me down.  I wouldn’t let things bug you too much, little by little, things will get done, just chip away a bit at a time.  Sometimes chores are awesome, and there just seems too much to do and I feel I will just never get a handle on it and get things done.  But if you just "make a start", perhaps just tidy up a bit or put a few things away. The trouble with chores and stuff like that, is that you can’t relax or enjoy life, because all the time are the niggly thoughts of all the stuff you should be doing. It’s the initial motivation that is so hard.  Maybe you could try setting yourself some kind of time-table?  Make a list of all the things you have to do and then allocate a time slot for each one. It’s a great feeling crossing out chores off a list once they get done and then when you’ve done them all, believe you me, you feel GREAT!!!! Good luck. Michelle

The problem is I get my Chores done but nothing else. I will do them in my PJs and I won’t get the more pressing tasks like looking for work done. A schedule for looking for work is something I haven’t done in a while. I would just like to get out once and a while and meet people. I am wondering how Seroquel is working for you. Maybe another Meds. change is in order for me. I just had an appointment with my Psychiatrist yesterday afternoon. My appointments with him are always short because I have no positive symptoms anymore and I schedule my appointments when I am busy. — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

"michelle" <miche…@nospamthanks.ok

wrote in

news:F152a.200$WR4.1429@newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net:

I am always in my pyjamas at home, I only get dressed if I am going to work or going out.  Pyjamas are far more comfortable than streets clothes. Michelle

I am just feeling too lazy lately. I don’t get the things I want to done. A lot of wasted time. — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

I have been up since 7:30AM and I am still in my Pyjamas. I hate being lazy. I was more active before I had a Computer. — Stuart J. Shillinglaw http://www.geocities.com/effectivestu/schizophrenia/

Response:

I went to bed at 2:30 AM and woke up around noon. I watched TV for awhile and went back to bed by 3PM and slept for another 6 hours. I am still in my PJ’s. Fifteen and a half hours of sleep today…and I’m not even on meds. "Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote in message

news:Xns931DADB69C546stushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have been up since 7:30AM and I am still in my Pyjamas. I hate being lazy. I was more active before I had a Computer.

Response:

"Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote in message

news:Xns931DADB69C546stushillinglaw3webne@209.197.145.13…

I have been up since 7:30AM and I am still in my Pyjamas. I hate being lazy. I was more active before I had a Computer.

What’s wrong with being in your pyjamas if you are at home and no one sees you? I am always in my pyjamas at home, I only get dressed if I am going to work or going out.  Pyjamas are far more comfortable than streets clothes. Michelle

Response:

On 9 Feb 2003 16:04:29 -0700, "Stuart J. Shillinglaw" <stu.shilling…@3web.net

wrote:

I have been up since 7:30AM and I am still in my Pyjamas. I hate being lazy. I was more active before I had a Computer.

It’s just the magic pixies keeping you down, or is it magic johnson, or someone’s johnston?????  Hugh’s maybe.  Likely if you’ve been accused of having a disease created by a person who needed a self imposed delusion he could project on to others to modify Libertarian and Free Will related behavior than you just might be demoralized and depressed, especially if the hospitalization was caused by a relative or someone else you depend on or should be able to, to care for andf about you. I’m the mark of sarcasm, the upside-down exclaimation mark, I am the Black Jester

Question:

A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

Response:

Hi, I am on 300mg of seroquel and it took ages to build up a tolerance to it.  I slept 18hrs a day for a long time (months) on it – but I did build a tolerance and now I can’t sleep at all if I don’t take it.  Enforcing compliance. The main problem I have had with it is that it doesn’t seem to work very well.  I have to take 3mg of respiridone as well.  The seroquel alone doesn’t stop my symptoms at all. Unbe "Berty" <adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad880e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

Response:

Hi, I had a horrible experience w Seroquel. Made me a depressed Zombie Let me know if you want more info. Change IV to 4 to reply mike "Berty" <adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com

wrote in message

news:b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad880e@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

Response:

That is strange Mike, because she had to stop with the Haldol because one of the side-affects was that it made her depressive (with suicide attempts). She is currently taking 2 times 200 mg a day and complaints about a headache and she also was speaking today she felt as if she was depressed again. It made me worried again… She is still in the hospital. I hope this all goes well… Thanks 4 ur input Berty "mike" <toyoI…@yahoo.com

schreef in bericht

news:1065361556.449736@websense.vermontel.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I had a horrible experience w Seroquel. Made me a depressed Zombie Let me know if you want more info. Change IV to 4 to reply mike "Berty" <adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com wrote in message news:b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad880e@posting.google.com… A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

Response:

Hi unbe, Your story doesn’t make me feel comfortable also. My friend is schizoaffective. I got to know her 1 and a half year ago and for 1 year we had a wonderfull friendschip/relationship. In december she started to change and we began to develop relational problems. Her psychiatrist only knew her as manic, I have never seen her manic though. In April we split up and 3 weeks later I heared from a friend she had done a suicide attempt with pills from a friend "out of love" for me. I immediately sought contact again and we became involved again. But she remained depressed. I tried to be at her side constantly and was already worried when she was using the bathroom. After a few weeks I went home in the morning and in the beginning of the evening she called me she had swallowed pills again 10 mins ago so I immediately call 911. She recovered but remained depressed and her psychiatrist found it better for her to go to hospital again because of the danger of another attempt. There she was in the closed department, but after a while they put her on open ! Then she went shopping and bought pills by a drugstore and swallowed 100 ibuproven (or something). In the hospital she was on an antidepressive but they said it was not working yet (had to take 4 to 6 weeks). Then they moved her to another hospital and now they say haldol made her depressive… and now she is on seroquel together with depakine chrono (lithium was stopped years ago because it was destroying her kidneys). She also says she sleeps alot and she is on 400mg Seroquel today. I am not relaxed at all with this situation. Berty "unbe" <n…@email.address

schreef in bericht

news:blojd2$dmr$1@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi, I am on 300mg of seroquel and it took ages to build up a tolerance to it.

I

slept 18hrs a day for a long time (months) on it – but I did build a tolerance and now I can’t sleep at all if I don’t take it.  Enforcing compliance. The main problem I have had with it is that it doesn’t seem to work very well.  I have to take 3mg of respiridone as well.  The seroquel alone doesn’t stop my symptoms at all. Unbe "Berty" <adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com wrote in message news:b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad880e@posting.google.com… A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

Response:

In article <b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad8…@posting.google.com

,

adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com (Berty) writes:

A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty

hey berty i have time constraints, so i am re-posting an earlier response. i hope it helps your friend. (in regard to headaches, i have had them for several years, but, as i have two herniated disks in my neck, i believe that to be the cause) RE-POST; Subject:        Re: seroquel poll From:   Donisan To:     alt.support.schizophrenia Date:   9/12/03 In article <bia3g2$ju…@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au

, "unbe" <n…@email.address

writes:

Just wondering how many poeple out there are on seroquel, what dose, what is their experience etc.

i am perscribed 50mg twice a day.( for about 2 years) i get by fairly well just taking the evening dose. the strange thing is that the evening dose knocks me out, but when i do take it during the day, it doesn’t make me sleepy, at all. maybe that is because i have be seriously agitated to do a dose in the daytime.

I am currently on 300mg, after going through all the other antipsychotics first. My psych must think seoquel is a last resort med. But for me it has the least side effects so far. The only problem is that it doesn’t seem to control my symptoms so well. So I’m on a small dose 1.5mg of respiridone as well.

i was on 2 to 4mg respiridol for about 3 years. i never did learn to like it, but i have to say that without respiridol, i would not have been able learn to understand myself well enough to actually figure out who i am. it takes a lot of inner struggle (and i have to draw some fine lines) to "change the things i can, and accept the things i can’t change" but i do occasionally find some serenity. seroquel helps when the inner struggle gets a little too intense.

I’ve been trying to up the dose, but it makes me sleep the whole day. Then I feel like shit afterwards.

my doc said that he can perscribe as high as 1200mg of seroquel, but he limits it to 800mg for his patients. if that is not enough, he tries another medication. a little bit of medication goes a long way for me, and i like the effect that seroquel has on my residual symptoms. (with no side effects) having said that, i really can’t imagine that it would have been very helpful during that extremely intense period of my life. in fact, it might well have suppressed my triggers to the point that i wouldn’t have been compelled to deal with them. i would have never found any peice of mind if i had not discovered why i preferred madness over reality. bill i may not have gone where i intended to go, but i think i have ended up where i intended to be.                                                       – douglas adams

Response:

"Berty" <Be…@c.ya.nl

wrote in message news:1065373653.245687@cache1… That is strange Mike, because she had to stop with the Haldol because one of the side-affects was that it made her depressive (with suicide attempts). She is currently taking 2 times 200 mg a day and complaints about a headache and she also was speaking today she felt as if she was depressed again. It made me worried again… She is still in the hospital. I hope this all goes well… Thanks 4 ur input Berty

Seroquel should be phased in gradually – I have found it is one of those drugs where your body needs to adjust in order to cope with the side effects. Also, initially I found it better to take 4 x 100 rather than 2 x 200.  Once you get used to 100mg at a time, then increasing it to 200mg at a time is bearable.  Taking 200mg at once initially is diabolical. For what it’s worth Berty, I wish you the best of luck.  I have not had any symptoms of depression since starting Seroquel back in February.  It is nothing short of fantastic for me regarding depression.  I was often contemplating suicide before I started on Seroquel.  OK, so it’s not the best thing since sliced bread for the schizophrenia.  The voices are worse and more scary, bad thoughts and fears still pretty prominent – but maybe that’s the price I have to pay in order to continue living.  I tried EVERYTHING to fix the depression. Maybe she might like to try a combination – I am thinking of perhaps taking maybe 5mg of Zyprexa along with the Seroquel.  Zyprexa is fantastic, no fears, no worries, no voices, but Jesus, if I’d continued with that on full dose I would have had to employ a crane to life me out of bed in the morning!!!  The weight gain was HORRENDOUS!!! Michelle

Response:

"mad mitch" <mad.mi…@NOSPAMntlworld.com

wrote in message

news:pA0gb.7651$QH3.1348@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net… | | Zyprexa is fantastic, no | fears, no worries, no voices, but Jesus: if I’d continued with that on full | dose I would have had to employ a crane to lift me out of bed in the | morning!!!  The weight gain was HORRENDOUS!!! | | Michelle "Lenny" lyrics:     by "The Buggles" from "Adventures In Modern Recording", 1982 All the fools who await your return May we tell them the truth There’s no way you can turn back the clock Never cling to your youth How unfortunate it must have been Life is only a race You’re so old that it might take a crane Just to lift back your face Scientific so scientific Scientific so scientific But you were walking on glass How unstable we bolt with the horse Setting music to muscle All the fallers who litter the course As we run to the castle Scientific so scientific Scientific so scientific But you were walking on glass Careful – you’re walking on glass you’re walking on glass When you say that the sun does not move Did it show you the answer When the ships do not fall off the world Does it mean there’s a wall there You say the sun does not move Careful – you could be walking on glass He could see that the earth was a mover And the sun was a mother But he was walking on glass

Response:

That is better news, thanks Michelle I still admire you Berty "mad mitch" <mad.mi…@NOSPAMntlworld.com

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"Berty" <Be…@c.ya.nl wrote in message news:1065373653.245687@cache1… That is strange Mike, because she had to stop with the Haldol because one of the side-affects was that it made her depressive (with suicide attempts). She is currently taking 2 times 200 mg a day and complaints about a headache and she also was speaking today she felt as if she was depressed again. It made me worried again… She is still in the hospital. I hope this all goes well… Thanks 4 ur input Berty Seroquel should be phased in gradually – I have found it is one of those drugs where your body needs to adjust in order to cope with the side effects. Also, initially I found it better to take 4 x 100 rather than 2 x 200.

Once

you get used to 100mg at a time, then increasing it to 200mg at a time is bearable.  Taking 200mg at once initially is diabolical. For what it’s worth Berty, I wish you the best of luck.  I have not had

any

symptoms of depression since starting Seroquel back in February.  It is nothing short of fantastic for me regarding depression.  I was often contemplating suicide before I started on Seroquel.  OK, so it’s not the best thing since sliced bread for the schizophrenia.  The voices are worse and more scary, bad thoughts and fears still pretty prominent – but maybe that’s the price I have to pay in order to continue living.  I tried EVERYTHING to fix the depression. Maybe she might like to try a combination – I am thinking of perhaps

taking

maybe 5mg of Zyprexa along with the Seroquel.  Zyprexa is fantastic, no fears, no worries, no voices, but Jesus, if I’d continued with that on

full

dose I would have had to employ a crane to life me out of bed in the morning!!!  The weight gain was HORRENDOUS!!! Michelle

Response:

Thanks random input, that was helpful Berty "ramdomoutput" <doni…@wmconnect.com

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In article <b0c38c05.0310041103.2aad8…@posting.google.com, adamskiraspu…@yahoo.com (Berty) writes: A friend of mine is starting with Seroquel instead of Haldol. She is taking 150mg at the moment and is complaining about feeling like a zombie the first days and having a severe headache. Does anybody here have experience with Seroquel? I don’t mean the regulars, because I know they are not taking Seroquel (sorry guys). Berty hey berty i have time constraints, so i am re-posting an earlier response. i hope it helps your friend. (in regard to headaches, i have had them for several years, but, as i have two herniated disks in my neck, i believe that to be the cause) RE-POST; Subject: Re: seroquel poll From: Donisan To: alt.support.schizophrenia Date: 9/12/03 In article <bia3g2$ju…@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au, "unbe"

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writes: Just wondering how many poeple out there are on seroquel, what dose, what

is

their experience etc. i am perscribed 50mg twice a day.( for about 2 years) i get by fairly well just taking the evening dose. the strange thing is that the evening dose knocks me out, but when i do take it during the day, it doesn’t make me sleepy, at all. maybe that is because i have be seriously agitated to do a dose in the daytime. I am currently on 300mg, after going through all the other antipsychotics first. My psych must think seoquel is a last resort med. But for me it

has

the least side effects so far. The only problem is that it doesn’t seem

to

control my symptoms so well. So I’m on a small dose 1.5mg of respiridone

as

well. i was on 2 to 4mg respiridol for about 3 years. i never did learn to like it, but i have to say that without respiridol, i would not have been able learn to understand myself well enough to actually figure out who i am. it takes a lot of inner struggle (and i have to draw some fine lines) to "change the things i can, and accept the things i can’t change" but i do occasionally find some serenity. seroquel helps when the inner struggle gets a little too intense. I’ve been trying to up the dose, but it makes me sleep the whole day.

Then I

feel like shit afterwards. my doc said that he can perscribe as high as 1200mg of seroquel, but he limits it to 800mg for his patients. if that is not enough, he tries

another

medication. a little bit of medication goes a long way for me, and i like the effect that seroquel has on my residual symptoms. (with no side effects) having said that, i really can’t imagine that it would have been very

helpful

during that extremely intense period of my life. in fact, it might well

have

suppressed my triggers to the point that i wouldn’t have been compelled to deal with them. i would have never found any peice of mind if i had not discovered why i preferred madness over reality. bill i may not have gone where i intended to go, but i think i have ended up where i intended to be.                                                       – douglas adams

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