Question:

Prozac Truth How to taper off medication   Quitting ssris and psychiatric medication must be done by tapering off, very slowly. Step by step instructions found on this Web Site.   How to Taper Off Prozac, Sarafem, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and other Psychiatric Medication Read testimonials of people that have quit psychiatric medication with this method. Click Here (This page also includes recent feedback from people tapering off medication with this method) I want to hear from you. If you are using this method or not, it does help to have someone to talk with during withdrawal. Click Here to send e-mail. A change in your diet can make a change in how you feel. Click here to visit a common sense Web Site by, Dr. Hugh Mann, M.D. If you plan to change your diet while tapering, do so mildly. If you smoke or drink coffee, first taper off the medication before you quit. Your metabolism plays a major role during tapering and detox. Take the time to read Dr. Mann’s information. How to Taper Step-by-Step Recommendation Click the text below that applies to you situation: Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Currently using medication and have already started to taper You have already quit taking medication but are suffering from side effects Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Inform your doctor you wish to discontinue the medication Begin replenishing the intracellular glutathione levels in the body. This needs to be done before you begin to taper. a) Begin by increasing intracellular levels of glutathione for at least one full week before beginning the taper. Longer if necessary. I have received information from a physician that he is having people stay at this step for 8 weeks before tapering. Each individual is different. I do not feel that an arbitrary amount of time on this step is warranted. What has shown to be the most effective is staying on this step for at least one full week or until most of your side effects are gone or nearly gone AND YOU FEEL VERY STABLE. You should not begin to taper off the medication until all or nearly all of your current side effects are gone. Getting yourself very stable before tapering is critical. If you are getting the

Question:

The Yawning Orgasm And other antidepressant side effects March 23, 2000 By Adam Pasick Fox News http://www.foxnews.com/health/s_file/s_file_05.sml   Benny de Grove/TIB From the bizarre pleasure of a spontaneous orgasm to the libido-crushing agony of episodic impotence, antidepressant drugs have long been known to carry the risk of sexual side effects. Most of these unintended effects are negative; some are just plain weird. And at the forefront of strange results, users have had orgasms while exercising, shopping – and yawning. This "yawning orgasm" has been reported by patients using Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and other antidepressant drugs. As many as 5 percent of patients experience the side effect, experts say, though the orgasms may be widely underreported: They have been discovered only "coincidentally during routine side-effect queries," according to one group of researchers, who suspected that patients may be "unwilling to reveal the experience." "They could be driving their car, and there it is!" said Dr. Norman Sussman, a clinical professor of psychology at the New York University School of Medicine. Not all out-of-the-blue orgasms were yawn-related. One female patient documented in the Journal of Biological Psychiatry "experienced a three-hour, sudden-onset spontaneous orgasm while shopping." She said the experience was "pleasurable," but "found the experience socially awkward" and stopped taking her medication.   The Exception, Not the Rule A pill that eases depression and might induce spontaneous orgasms sounds great. But for almost everyone taking antidepressants, the sexual side effects are usually the opposite, resulting in lowered libido and the inability to achieve orgasm (anorgasmia). A lucky few can reach a climax when they least expect it, but many more patients can’t get there at all. "I experienced less pleasure when taking antidepressants, to the point where I would not even think about sex most of the time," said Alex, a 34-year-old engineer from the Pacific Northwest who asked that his last name not be used. As many as 70 percent of users on selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors like Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft experience sexual dysfunction, and other classes of drugs can also pose similar problems. Patients are faced with a major dilemma: sex or happiness? The drugs often provide a respite from depression, but it can come at the price of their sex lives. "It’s like saying, ‘I’m going to put you on this drug, but there’s a 50 percent chance you’ll lose interest in sex, and even if you are interested you may not be able to have an ejaculation or orgasm,’" Sussman said. Some users with SSRI-related sexual dysfunction have taken "drug holidays," leaving their medication in the medicine cabinet for a few days to let their libidos rejuvenate. But because drugs like Prozac take weeks to leave the system, there’s no guarantee it will work. Solving Problems That’s not to say that SSRIs are always bad for your sex life. Even if they’re not giving you spontaneous orgasms (don’t get your hopes up), they alleviate depression, which is quite a libido-killer on its own. "If you’ve been depressed and lose interest in sex, SSRIs can certainly help that," Sussman said. Depression left untreated can cause impotence and retarded libido, so "if you get someone better on an SSRI, a certain percentage will see their sex lives improve." And it’s key that patients find the right combination of drugs in order to minimize sexual side effects that may occur. Because every patient will react differently to given pharmaceuticals, "it’s trial and error," Sussman said. "You switch to another [drug] because these things are idiosyncratic." He has even begun prescribing Viagra to help patients regain the orgasms they have lost. Some short-fused men may even find that the side effect of anorgasmia, or difficulty achieving orgasm, may be beneficial. "There are guys out there who would have been absolutely afraid to have intercourse because of premature ejaculation," Sussman said. "They take SSRIs and they can stand up to anybody, so to speak." ——- "If people are educated to believe they are fundamentally fragile, always on the verge of mortal disease, perpetually in need of health-care professionals at every side, always dependent on an imagined discipline of

Question:

Hi! I’m on Paxil and it works very well for me, apart from tiredness (but better than panic, right!?).  Had Prozac in the past, but that made my anxiety worse.  St Johns Wort made me feel sick and dizzy.  Had some tricyclic too, but that made me faint. Everyone is different, but Paxil has really changed my life for the better.  I am 26 and have had PD on and off for about 20 years.  Not a peep of a panic attack since been on Paxil. Hope this helps! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last

First, If what you are really asking is, "is there any hope of finding an effective med for me?" the answer is yes.  There are very few people that don’t respond to any med.  There are tons of meds that may be helpfull; the problem is it takes time to find the right one(s) for a particular person. I take Xanax and Lopressor and I’d give them a B, maybe a B+ on helping.  I did try Prozac, for me, it wasn’t much help. God bless,   Mark Before you buy.

Response:

I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks.

Yes, I’ve been helped immensely.  I started on Paxil a little over a year ago. Worked up to 20mg per day (in the mornings). Stayed on Xanax, gradually working down from 1.5 mg total per day to .75, where I am now. In midsummer I had a few breakthrough panic episodes while driving, as well as a "darkening cloud" feeling that seemed to indicate my depression was lurking again. So my pdoc bumped my Paxil dose up to 30 mg. It has worked very well ever since then, and I am doing things (highways, bridges) I haven’t done in 10 or more years. I also had about 3-4 months of psychotherapy, a least once a week, when I first went on the meds. The Paxil both pulled me out of major depression and alleviated my panic attacks. It was the single most effective step I’ve ever taken.  (Xanax had *helped* me for years, but it didn’t take the panic away; it just dulled it — I still felt as if I were fighting the panic constantly, just keeping it at bay. Paxil, OTOH, simply eliminated the panic attacks most of the time. Pretty sensational results!)  Life is not perfect, and I do still get scared and sometimes anxious, but I can live with that. It’s the panic that crippled me and took my life away, and now I have my life back. Standard disclaimer:  YMMV.   Remember, we are all chemically and psychologically different. What worked for me may not work for others. But yes — there are treatments that *do* work for many of us. And someday there may be a treatment or cure for all of us. (fingers crossed) Good luck! Best, Anne —

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I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks.

That’s OK, I’m scared to read replies to ANYTHING I post!  LOL I can honestly say that I am very satisfied with my combination of Paxil and Lorazepam (Ativan).  It was difficult weaning onto the Paxil, but now I have only minor side effects (slight trembling and sleepiness), and they are MUCH preferable to the way I was feeling before. But it’s a very individual thing, so you might have to go through a lot of trial and error before you find the right meds. Hope this helps. Dot

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Thanks for all the replies. I just needed some encouragement that I would eventually find the right med or combination for this bad spell I’m going through (that’s why I was "scared to read the replies" – fear that no one was actually getting good results). Thanks again. First_Last I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you buy.

Before you buy.

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: : I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from : their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate : what med or combination of meds. Thanks. Why would you be scared or sorry to ask? Personally, Xanax PRN (as needed) in doses ranging from 1 to 3 milligrams helps me a lot. Generally, not everyone needs medications, but some of us do because of some underlying imbalance of body chemistry. In cases where medication is needed, the trick is to match the appropriate medication to the chemical imbalance. Please feel free to post when ever you like. Best Wishes, Arthur

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I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you buy.

Hi First, I’ve been taking Paxil and Lorazepam for a year or two, combined with perseverance and repetition been making great progress (have had social phobia almost all my life), as well, the ugly Black Dog hasn’t reared it’s head either. Mind you, I took Manerix for a couple of years, and that didn’t do diddly. You’ll probably get a thumbs up and a thumbs down for every med under the sun. You may well be sorry you asked. Hope you find a combination of things that works for you. Hans Bessel

Response:

I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you

buy.  Hi first_ last. You probably are going to be sorry you asked if you’re looking for answers. Because there isn’t just one answer to this. Everybody is different as far as what works for them. I personally have been on (are you ready for this list?) In basically this order.Over a 10 yr. period. Ativan, Buspar,Prozac,(then tried herbs) St, John’s Wort, Kava Kava, Valerian, Chamomile Tea,5htp, B-complex, then Paxil,Zoloft, Prozac, Celexa and finally Paxil. I am currently on Paxil. The first time I tried it it caused me to sleep so much that it was messing up my life on a daily basis. But this time it seems to be working just fine. I haven’t had a serious attack in 6 mos. and have held a job for  4 mos.Sorry this is so long. Just want you to know that nobody can give you any answers on what meds will work for you. It’s trial and error I’m sorry to say. Been there and done that. Take care and good luck to you. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you buy.

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Remeron and Xanax.  Only thing that helps me…tried Paxil, Prozac and Zoloft, ended up with this combo.  Works as best as it can for me.  Cheryl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you buy.

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Hi!  why would you be scared to read the replies? I have anxiety and mod/severe depression.  I am presently taking Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Klonopin during the day and Trazedone at night.  It seems to be working perty durn well… — <//< Cynthia / Southern California "For it is God which worketh in you both to will  and to do of His good pleasure"   Philippians 2:13

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess I’ll be sorry I asked, but is ANYONE getting good results from their meds for anxiety and/or minor depression? If so, please indicate what med or combination of meds. Thanks. First_Last Before you buy.

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Question:

I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother. All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.  I’ve three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret. People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost 21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants; malls are an absolute nightmare; I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying me. I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

I didn’t go to my high school graduation, and when the principal of the school came to our house to give me my diploma, I refused to go to the door. My mother had to talk to him. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Struck-in-the-head

Twisted wrote:

A lot of pain there.  And I can surely relate.  Thanks for sharing your experiences (of lack of) and welcome to the group!  I can certainly relate to most it.  I never graduated high school, through I went back and got my ged so I could go on to college.  All I ever did in HS was go to school and thenm go home.  Never a dance, prom or social event of any kind, not in the yearbook, few people even knew I existed.  Not much changed in college, but my case was a little different because I didn’t go to college until I was 30.  I REALLY tried to fit in and do social stuff, but I found that if you aren’t traditional college age, you don’t fit in no matter how hard you try.  Anyway, welcome and stick around. moshi…@my-deja.com wrote in message <7rcjnm$fk…@nnrp1.deja.com… I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother. All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.  I’ve three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret. People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost 21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants; malls are an absolute nightmare; I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying me. I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Neither did I c Dissident <zalmo…@earthlink.net

wrote I didn’t go to my high school graduation, and when the principal of the school came to our house to give me my diploma, I refused to go to the door. My mother had to talk to him. Struck-in-the-head

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

A lot of pain there.  And I can surely relate.  Thanks for sharing your experiences (of lack of) and welcome to the group!  I can certainly relate to most it.  I never graduated high school, through I went back and got my ged so I could go on to college.  All I ever did in HS was go to school and thenm go home.  Never a dance, prom or social event of any kind, not in the yearbook, few people even knew I existed.  Not much changed in college, but my case was a little different because I didn’t go to college until I was 30.  I REALLY tried to fit in and do social stuff, but I found that if you aren’t traditional college age, you don’t fit in no matter how hard you try.  Anyway, welcome and stick around. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -moshi…@my-deja.com wrote in message <7rcjnm$fk…@nnrp1.deja.com

… I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother. All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.  I’ve three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret. People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost 21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants; malls are an absolute nightmare; I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying me. I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

All I know is…since I’ve been on medication, my symptoms have lessened tremendously and a whole new world has opened up for me. My sex life is great and I don’t feel like my creativity has been dulled by it. For some reason, if I find out it really IS dulling my senses….so be it. As long as I feel better and live a more productive life, I don’t care how the medication works.

ditto here, about a whole new world.  i say, i have reinvented myself.  my creativity has just been like on a rocket.  my memory is incredibly improved. i was an obsessive note-taker.  now i remember most important things, i let go of the unimportant things, and don’t worry about the rest.   the question of dulling was raised by a correspondent to this thread, who stated that rather than replenishing shortfalls of brain chemicals, seratonin and our meds merely dulled our senses, much as alcohol or some other drugs.   thanks for your participation in this thread!

Response:

I dont have enough information to have a solid basis for an opinion regarding what you have written however the change in sex drive you describe could easily be caused by medication having an effect on sex drive. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gg188 wrote:

 I guess this could apply, but I also love to masterbate…if I can I could (and upon occasion have) spend an hr or two at it at a time, otherwise I do it whenever I have the privacy to (I live in a dorm and have a roomate) i am new to the group.  but this part struck a chord, though perhaps it has been discussed before?…….i too masturbated frequently and for extended periods of time. (even when in physically exciting and fulfilling relationship).    i was diagnosed last year as having ocd, for a variety of basically standard reasons (obsessions, hoarding, anxiety, ritual, etc), and have been on prosac.  my ocd immediately got better, but i seemed to suffer some form of the famous side effects. i have do not have the daily,constant interest in sex and orgasm.  i am not impotent, and still have nocturnal signs that everything is working, if you know what i mean.  and can orgasm with no problem when properly stimulated. point is:  my therapist says that it is LESS the effect of the meds and more of the thing that masturbation was an obsession before, and now that my life is replacing  those ocd behaviors  with fulfilling activities, there is not the daily need for masturbation. i would LIKE to have that old, constant interest in sex.  but i don’t, and don’t really miss it, because prosac and treatment have made me able to enjoy other things in life that i never did before.  (i was also alcoholic, btw, and have been sober for over a year.) finally, i also find that my masturbatory or erotic interests are very simple, as opposed to various, i.e., varieties of variations etc.  simple thoughts of fulfilling sex with a woman i find attractive are sufficiently arousing, without thoughts of variations (ok, like, say, bondage, for example) sorry to be so graphic, but it is one thing i have wondered most about during 8 mos on prosac (and 4 or so on wellbutrin also)

— Jim Claiborn PhD ABPP If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gg188 wrote:

I think that the meds do not correct any abnormal brain chemistry as much as they dull the senses and it is this dulling of the senses that leads to less brain activity and a more normal brain chemistry. The drug companies would like us to believe that their meds "correct" brain chemistry and they fund a lot of research to support their claims. Just remember that the tobacco companies have done the same thing. thanks, friend, for taking time to reply, and i respect your opinion and consider it.  however, i wondered for a sec if i was on the alt.conspiacy newsgroup (which i subscribe to and read sometimes)!  are you saying that many thousands of medical doctors and mental health professionals are in a conspiracy w the drug companies and not one of them will rat it all out?  so everything the doctors, shrinks and drug manufactuers and med research community tell us is a well-orchestrated lie? is there a doctor in the house?  i know there is a med doc who subscribes to this group, cuz i have read posts.  looking forward to someone weighing in on this.  many thanks.

The drug companies are in the busness of making money by selling products. In the current state of things they have to be very careful about exactly what they say about the drugs effects etc. The sexual side effects of SRIs were under-reported at first and part of this has to do with how questions are asked and what people are willing to report. It is now clear that the sexual side effects of these drugs are very common and cause distress for many people. Most of the professionals you talk to about OCD if they are knowledgable about the disorder will tell you that there are 2 forms of treatment that have a reasonable outcome and data to support them. They are SRI drugs and Cognitive behavioral therapy. Interestingly the drug companys do mention that CBT works as well for OCD. They have been very good about saying this. Since it doesn’t sell any drugs I find it hard to believe it is part of a conspiracy on their parts. I dont see how it benifits the professionals to lie about what works. Frankly if long term psychodynamic therapy worked I could make a lot more money doing that then short term CBT. — Jim Claiborn PhD ABPP If the rich could pay other people to die for them the poor could make a wonderful living. Yiddish proverb J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net

Response:

Gg188 wrote:

point is:  my therapist says that it is LESS the effect of the meds and more of the thing that masturbation was an obsession before, and now that my life is replacing  those ocd behaviors  with fulfilling activities, there is not the daily need for masturbation.

I doubt that your therapist is right. In my experience, and those of others, the meds have a numbing quality as though they put not only thoughts at a distance but also sensory information is put at a distance. The intensity of thoughts and sensory information is lessened. You may indeed have been obsessive about masturbation and/or sex in general but if you are young, it is hard to tell what could be classified as obsessive. Normally there is not a problem unless it causes you harm or those around you harm. I think that the meds do not correct any abnormal brain chemistry as much as they dull the senses and it is this dulling of the senses that leads to less brain activity and a more normal brain chemistry. The drug companies would like us to believe that their meds "correct" brain chemistry and they fund a lot of research to support their claims. Just remember that the tobacco companies have done the same thing. BTW, I use tobacco and the meds so I am not against these drugs, I just want to clear about what they are and what they do. — Take care of your "self". whatatrip rbol…@premier1.com

Response:

I doubt that your therapist is right. In my experience, and those of others, the meds have a numbing quality as though they put not only thoughts at a distance but also sensory information is put at a distance. The intensity of thoughts and sensory information is lessened. You may indeed have been obsessive about masturbation and/or sex in general but if you are young, it is hard to tell what could be classified as obsessive. Normally there is not a problem unless it causes you harm or those around you harm. I think that the meds do not correct any abnormal brain chemistry as much as they dull the senses and it is this dulling of the senses that leads to less brain activity and a more normal brain chemistry.

I disagree with you on the theory- if you don’t hurt yourself or others- then it’s not a problem. I used to think that way myself, but I’ve changed my mind over the years. If something takes up so much of your time that you are unable to enjoy other things in life- even if it’s not "harmful"- then it’s a problem! As far as whether or not the drugs "correct" or just dull the senses- I don’t know for sure. All I know is…since I’ve been on medication, my symptoms have lessened tremendously and a whole new world has opened up for me. My sex life is great and I don’t feel like my creativity has been dulled by it. For some reason, if I find out it really IS dulling my senses….so be it. As long as I feel better and live a more productive life, I don’t care how the medication works.

Response:

As you know you cant get a diagnosis via a news group. Some of what you describe could be OCD but it is not impossible that you could have a different problem entirely. If the person you now see as a therapist is

Or a mix of them. A person can be NA, SA, AA, OCD, ADDA all at the same time….a bit of work to seperate them but by no means impossible…

Response:

Unleashed?  Do you think your family would like you more if you did not have OCD? I often wondered about that cause it does tend to make people a little ‘nicer’ and more emotionally repressed.

hi, and thanks for replying.  you really nailed it, that it does make me "nicer."  i think, with me at least, that is because i just don’t get hung up on the minutia.  i have perspective for the first time in my life.  i obsessed over things like insignificant monetary losses, or, say, a dent on my new car, or things which, in the overall scheme of life, are small.  now i see the important things that are right: my health, job…simple things like food; dumb and minor things like television or soft drinks or ice cream or music….. i let minutia related to hoarding, anxiety, worry, stress—i let this make me a not-nice person.  so yes, it has made me nicer.  emotionally repressed? i will think on that.  i know i am more extroverted.  outgoing.  confident.  and people even seem to like me more.

Response:

also, since on prosac, my mind is just so "unleashed" (sorry, can’t think of a better word), like creativity taking the place of the old over and over and over obsessive thoughts, and worry and ritual. my point is that i also suddenly have this over developed sense of humor. like, my initial response to this letter was, "ok, and tell me again—how many gunmen were on the grassy knoll"……

Unleashed?  Do you think your family would like you more if you did not have OCD? I often wondered about that cause it does tend to make people a little ‘nicer’ and more emotionally repressed.

Response:

thanks for the reply.  i welcome and i am enjoying and benefiting from  the discourse.  i jokingly tease that your comments are "out there", but, hey, there are all kinds of people out there–md’s even—who say, for example, that angioplasty and bypass surgeries are a sham to make bucks for surgeons and hospitals when all that is required are mega doses of one or another vitamin (which, coincidentally, the theorist  just happens to be sellin!)   i personally believe chiropractors are charlatans.  and i have resisted and still resist—-despite the success of my treatment and apparently of prosac—-some of the main thrusts of modern psychotheapy:  i never "got" the road less travelled, bradshaw, et al; i just can’t seem to accept love as a CHOICE;  i believe in romance and love that defies reason.  (prosac and therapy have practically cured me in all areas of ocd except the big one, my love and angst and longing for a woman i broke up with two years ago and who is a psychotic and  with whom i had a violent, alcoholic and destructive relationship for years—and with whom i had the very heights of passion, romance and desire.) please follow:

If you have been watching the X-Files, you would know that there was only one man on the grassy knoll (if I remember correctly).

maybe—but was he with the cia, the mob, the illuminati, the freemasons, the council on foreign relations or the trilateral commission?  (smile) oliver stone, phone home.  …..and btw, what could stone do with the "conspiracy" or drug companies and med professionals and menal health community to dull our senses with drugs and tell us that it is really needed brain chemicals and that it is making us sharper, not duller.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In one of the ocd books that I read a patient reported that when he took lsd or mushrooms or one of the psychedelics, his ocd would just disappear. I don’t recommend that anyone treat their ocd with these drugs since they are very powerful and the results are not predictable. I know from personal experience that  one can go from eternal bliss to eternal hell in seconds by using these drugs. The point is that it is know that the psychedelics have a powerful effect on serotonin levels. I think I understand what you are saying about the prozac unleashing or freeing you from the thoughts, worry and rituals. I discovered in high school that if I drank alcohol the night before an important test, I would do much better. The alcohol toned down my stress levels or took the edge off so that I could function better. Later in life, valium did the same thing with less side effects. Now I use luvox and buspar. Drugs are getting better but I am not convinced that they "correct" anything. They do change brain chemistry.

the prosac has made me feel—most of the time—strong, positive, optimistic, powerful.  and you know, the closest i ever felt to that before was smoking marijuana in college (many years ago).  and i drank for years, and it mitigated my ocd (and almost destroyed me and others around me.  i have been sober now for a while.)   i wish dr. claiborn would weigh in on this thread.  your postulation requires the complicity of hundreds of thousands of people worldwide—-insurance companies, med schools, universities, as well as the doctors and psychologsts, etc.—-to piss on us and tell us it’s raining, basically:  that seratonin just dulls our senses, like alcohol and drugs, yet they  position it as a necessary brain chem which improves our memory, our concentration, and rebuilds our "self".  ……..   any comments, ladies and gents?  thanks

Response:

The intensity of thoughts and sensory information is lessened. You may indeed have been obsessive about masturbation and/or sex in general but if you are young, it is hard to tell what could be classified as obsessive. Normally there is not a problem unless it causes you harm or those around you harm. I think that the meds do not correct any abnormal brain chemistry as much as they dull the senses and it is this dulling of the senses that leads to less brain activity and a more normal brain chemistry. The drug companies would like us to believe that their meds "correct" brain chemistry and they fund a lot of research to support their claims. Just remember that the tobacco companies have done the same thing. BTW, I use tobacco and the meds so I am not against these drugs, I just want to clear about what they are and what they do.

also, since on prosac, my mind is just so "unleashed" (sorry, can’t think of a better word), like creativity taking the place of the old over and over and over obsessive thoughts, and worry and ritual. my point is that i also suddenly have this over developed sense of humor. like, my initial response to this letter was, "ok, and tell me again—how many gunmen were on the grassy knoll"…… i, too, would sure like to be clear on this.  what you are saying here is that the stuff about neurons across the synapses and seratonin etc is bulloney?? that is a stretch for me, but i probably have some beliefs that some people would think rather paranoid or conspiratorial.  what do others think, please?

Response:

ccudd…@mailexcite.com wrote:

I posted this the other day accidentally as a thread reply and got only a few replies so I thought I’d repost it. I don’t know a lot about ocd, though I’ve been trying to educate myself a

As you know you cant get a diagnosis via a news group. Some of what you describe could be OCD but it is not impossible that you could have a different problem entirely. If the person you now see as a therapist is not well informed about the treatment of OCD then a consultation with someone who is might be a good step. The medication trials dont really tell us all that much since although they may be good meds for OCD the use in OCD is often at higher dosages and we often weight 10-12 weeks before seeing clear effects. The therapy approch which is recognized as the treatment of choice for OCD is cognitive behavioral therapy. Again I dont know what type of therpy your therapist offers but unless the therapist has specalized training in work with OCD I would expect less then the most effective treatment is being offered for OCD. — Jim Claiborn Ph.D. ABPP J-Claiborn-…@worldnet.att.net If I survive this life without dying I’ll be supprised. Mulla Nasrudin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Gg188 wrote:

The intensity of thoughts and sensory information is lessened. You may indeed have been obsessive about masturbation and/or sex in general but if you are young, it is hard to tell what could be classified as obsessive. Normally there is not a problem unless it causes you harm or those around you harm. I think that the meds do not correct any abnormal brain chemistry as much as they dull the senses and it is this dulling of the senses that leads to less brain activity and a more normal brain chemistry. The drug companies would like us to believe that their meds "correct" brain chemistry and they fund a lot of research to support their claims. Just remember that the tobacco companies have done the same thing. BTW, I use tobacco and the meds so I am not against these drugs, I just want to clear about what they are and what they do. also, since on prosac, my mind is just so "unleashed" (sorry, can’t think of a better word), like creativity taking the place of the old over and over and over obsessive thoughts, and worry and ritual. my point is that i also suddenly have this over developed sense of humor. like, my initial response to this letter was, "ok, and tell me again—how many gunmen were on the grassy knoll"……

If you have been watching the X-Files, you would know that there was only one man on the grassy knoll (if I remember correctly).

i, too, would sure like to be clear on this.  what you are saying here is that the stuff about neurons across the synapses and seratonin etc is bulloney?? that is a stretch for me, but i probably have some beliefs that some people would think rather paranoid or conspiratorial.  what do others think, please?

I am sure the stuff about the neurons across the synapses and serotonin is not baloney. The role of serotonin is not well understood. Consider: serotonin (s

Question:

Moshi, You’re not ugly.  Nobody is really ugly…they just think they are.  Of course we’re not all supermodels either.  If you’re feeling bad about your appearance ask someone for some help.  You could call a modeling school and ask for a makeover…you could find a hair stylist whose hair you like and ask for some suggestions…re: colour and style.  You could enlist the aid of those fashion conscious family members around you.  Give yourself a makeover and make yourself feel good.  If you’ve got a skin problem see a dermatologist…if you’ve got a huge nose…get a nose job.  If you’re neat, clean and well groomed…people will look past non-supermodel looks…they will.  It is amazing how confidence…that air/persona…and a smile, sparkling eyes…things that come from within will make a person look attractive…these are qualities that can be worked on…unlike something like height…which you’re stuck with.:-) You mentioned that you feel most happy around your family…why not spend more time with them to bolster and strengthen yourself.  You have identified something that makes you feel happy…this is a strength…use that strength to its fullest.  You have identified something that makes you feel unhappy…your looks…this is an area you can improve on…it is not set in stone.  I wonder how many hours they work on models before they actually take their picture.:-) You are willing to take medications and recognize that you’re not feeling up to your usual…this is a strength…many people go on for years riding it out…feeling like hell. You have recognized you are fearful of people…there are behavioural programs set up in combination with therapy to help you overcome this…it is something that bothers you…this is a good thing…are you enrolled in a program? It might strike you as odd or non-compassionate, but most people don’t want to hang out with people who obviously do not feel comfortable around them. You need to convey to people that you like them, that you are relaxed around them and enjoy their company.  You need to convey warmth, not fear…this may be very difficult for you to do…you may need some practice as Jenn suggests.  You need to build up your tolerance for rejection so that you will not be put off…if the first few people are too busy or too selfish and into their own worlds.  You will keep looking for other people who aren’t that way.  You need to keep focusing on being warm and vulnerable and remember that each new person you meet is not responsible for the slights in the past of other people no matter how much they have hurt you.  Also remember that even loving people sometimes hurt the ones they love…and it is not on purpose.  Also remember, that no one owes you anything…not even a hello…not even a glance your way.  So, when someone does glance your way…smile, when they say hello…say hello and add something else back…reward the people who respond to you…at least the ones you enjoy…take some risks and if it doesn’t work out…blame it on the car accident they had that morning, or the fight with their mom, or the failed exam, or their sister newly diagnosed with leukemia…and don’t assume that it’s you…give them every excuse in the book and then some.  Give, give, give, give…way more than you get.  It’s far better to give 10 things and get 1 back, than to give 1 and get none. Once you overcome some of your fears with people, and overcome your interpretation that rejection is all your fault…you will start to have more positive interactions with people…and you won’t hate it so much anymore.  Your longing for people is a good thing. Solo moshi500+AEA-my-deja.com wrote in message +ADw-7rcjm9+ACQ-fk7+ACQ-1+AEA-nnrp1.deja.com+AD4-…

+AD4-I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or +AD4-depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people +AD4-makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of +AD4-times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother. +AD4-All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying +AD4-to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that +AD4-hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a +AD4-joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the +AD4-goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No +AD4-one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.  I’ve +AD4-three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in +AD4-college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the +AD4-thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a +AD4-thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so +AD4-painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on +AD4-campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest +AD4-claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I +AD4-never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, +AD4-because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back +AD4-and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will +AD4-have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in +AD4-college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a +AD4-different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from +AD4-high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to +AD4-be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in +AD4-bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went +AD4-through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with +AD4-me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was +AD4-assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I +AD4-was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up +AD4-for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost +AD4-21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, +AD4-xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in +AD4-these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s +AD4-so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, +AD4-but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations +AD4-outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I +AD4-can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with +AD4-strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants+ADs- malls are an absolute +AD4-nightmare+ADs- I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear +AD4-that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness +AD4-but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying +AD4-me. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I +AD4-don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now +AD4-I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the +AD4-klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just +AD4-to medicate the pain. +AD4- +AD4- +AD4-Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ +AD4-Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Way off base, Unicorn. I have been remorseful since. My just-ended marriage wasn’t "my way or no way"; there was mutuality throughout. I was given no choice but to have it HER way. Where you got those ideas, I don’t know, but I haven’t mastered the art of adding INFLEXION to the typed word.

Response:

Pam, sweet one…. I know we can identify with the pain Linda must have felt. But here is a man that speaks out about hwo he was at the time… Mayeb in that openign the minds of those that are that way right now, who could in identifying start talking with him, and learn how he now sees that was dead wrogn and how, if I remember a past post of his correctly that is, he saw that he more or less consciously used to use all sorts of backup subsystems of defense to push love away.. In that, I think that maybe this person can help others to maybe open their eyes to their own subsytems of defense (bracing walls to hold the big wall in place and not allow anyone to slip in a crack in the wall, never allowing anyone to touch them where it really matters: in their very ehart and soul?)…. Building up such subsystems of defense usually happens afte a fear of being greatly wounded, which usually comes after having been hurt real bad….. What say if we allowed Gene to reach out, and make sure we do not let our own subsystems of defense make the wall too high for many others to learn hwo to not hurt the next Lindas in this life, hm…?;-) I hope you understand what I am saying here or trying to convey….Perhaps Gene was tryign to speak out about those subsystems of defence, those brqacong-the-wall to not let anyone in, the "dpoing nicely" instead of the being Nice…? And perhaps in talking about how that USED TO BE for him, he maybe was puttign himself on the line, and reachign out of some leftover wall of defense, and creatign a small opemning for soem to reach out not only to him, but tot he Lindas in their livees too, if you see what I mean? Perhaps the voice of one that has been there on the other side of the coin many of us lived could better open up the walls of defense and keeping-love-away that other lurkers if not posters woudl still hold up……? What say? "We" give him a chance…? Else the only option left woudl be to let them inside those walls and meet new Lindas anyway, for those that, contrary to the impression I had from gene, would still go on actign that way…. Just a thought….A waking up sleepy one…. For all the Lindas in the world, and all the Genes that grew in Love and want to offer Love and help break down soem walls of pain….? Chloe  "Unicorn" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(unic…@internet-directory.net) writes:

I would hope so.. but it is too late.. for Linda.. you took her down.. you destroyed her.. and where is Gene.. proud of this.. for I find no respect for you in how you said this with little remorse.. and the fact that you let another feel as if it were your way or no way.. Pamela Gene Costanza <evilpri…@compuserve.com wrote in message news:37E44FB0.D346FED4@compuserve.com… Faith in me and honesty with myself. I’ve never been a lightweight in the self-esteem crushing department. As far as the honesty thing goes, I’ll elaborate with an example. Many moons ago, I dated a young lady named Linda (NHRN). We were attracted to each other from day one and subsequently became quite an item. She was beautiful, sweet, intelligent, friendly, sexy and sensitive. Both our respective gaggle of friends accepted our ‘couplehood’ and we were regulars amongst both factions. As soon as things got heavy (several months later), I panicked and started to doom and damn the relationship (affairs, propositioning her close friends, etc.). Awful, heartless self-absorption. She would recoil from her discoveries and persist as she felt she STILL wanted to be with me. I further justified and intensified my cruelty because I now had the ultimate artillery: her utter lack of self-esteem and gluttony for punishment. I have always regretted how I treated Linda to this day, because I’m a far kinder, gentler and more sensitive person now and deal with people and situations on a higher level.

Response:

I would hope so.. but it is too late.. for Linda.. you took her down.. you destroyed her.. and where is Gene.. proud of this.. for I find no respect for you in how you said this with little remorse.. and the fact that you let another feel as if it were your way or no way.. Pamela Gene Costanza <evilpri…@compuserve.com

wrote in message

news:37E44FB0.D346FED4@compuserve.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Faith in me and honesty with myself. I’ve never been a lightweight in the self-esteem crushing department. As far as the honesty thing goes, I’ll elaborate with an example. Many moons ago, I dated a young lady named Linda (NHRN). We were attracted to each other from day one and subsequently became quite an item. She was beautiful, sweet, intelligent, friendly, sexy and sensitive. Both our respective gaggle of friends accepted our ‘couplehood’ and we were regulars amongst both factions. As soon as things got heavy (several months later), I panicked and started to doom and damn the relationship (affairs, propositioning her close friends, etc.). Awful, heartless self-absorption. She would recoil from her discoveries and persist as she felt she STILL wanted to be with me. I further justified and intensified my cruelty because I now had the ultimate artillery: her utter lack of self-esteem and gluttony for punishment. I have always regretted how I treated Linda to this day, because I’m a far kinder, gentler and more sensitive person now and deal with people and situations on a higher level.

Response:

P&M Gene Costanza wrote:

I have always regretted how I treated Linda to this day, because I’m a far kinder, gentler and more sensitive person now and deal with people and situations on a higher level.

     Gene….have you ever run into Linda again…..to maybe tell her how you feel now about what you did.  I think if most of us are truly honest, we have a time or two in our past that we regret for the hurting of someone and would change things if we could.     It’s sounds as though you’ve learned a thing or two since that time. Jae —  "You must live your life from beginning to end……..                  No one else can do it for you."                        Hopi Proverb

Response:

Hm. Where you see glutony for punishment from ""linda"", I wonder if you were not punishing your own self and were not the glutton….punishing yourself for not loving her anymore, perhaps…Dunno. Saw that behavior before. I know that in my case when it was mistaken for a lack of self esteem, the other was sticking his finger in his eye down to his elbow:):). I guess how soemoen else’s act doe snot affect my self esteem, and that maybe some others exist that are like em and refuse to take on them the consequences of someoen punishing himself while thinking he is punishing others, thinking it affects their self esteem and that he can solve a problem this way…. But I think what you wrote shows that you became aware of that. If I read okay in my rem mode, being sleeping on the keyboard. So odd. I am dead tired but can not find sleep so far….Waiting to crash asleep, as each time I try, I wake up within a few minutes…. Sorry then if I woudl have read all wrong. Chloe  Gene Costanza (evilpri…@compuserve.com) writes:

Faith in me and honesty with myself.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’ve never been a lightweight in the self-esteem crushing department. As far as the honesty thing goes, I’ll elaborate with an example. Many moons ago, I dated a young lady named Linda (NHRN). We were attracted to each other from day one and subsequently became quite an item. She was beautiful, sweet, intelligent, friendly, sexy and sensitive. Both our respective gaggle of friends accepted our ‘couplehood’ and we were regulars amongst both factions. As soon as things got heavy (several months later), I panicked and started to doom and damn the relationship (affairs, propositioning her close friends, etc.). Awful, heartless self-absorption. She would recoil from her discoveries and persist as she felt she STILL wanted to be with me. I further justified and intensified my cruelty because I now had the ultimate artillery: her utter lack of self-esteem and gluttony for punishment. I have always regretted how I treated Linda to this day, because I’m a far kinder, gentler and more sensitive person now and deal with people and situations on a higher level.

Response:

Faith in me and honesty with myself. I’ve never been a lightweight in the self-esteem crushing department. As far as the honesty thing goes, I’ll elaborate with an example. Many moons ago, I dated a young lady named Linda (NHRN). We were attracted to each other from day one and subsequently became quite an item. She was beautiful, sweet, intelligent, friendly, sexy and sensitive. Both our respective gaggle of friends accepted our ‘couplehood’ and we were regulars amongst both factions. As soon as things got heavy (several months later), I panicked and started to doom and damn the relationship (affairs, propositioning her close friends, etc.). Awful, heartless self-absorption. She would recoil from her discoveries and persist as she felt she STILL wanted to be with me. I further justified and intensified my cruelty because I now had the ultimate artillery: her utter lack of self-esteem and gluttony for punishment. I have always regretted how I treated Linda to this day, because I’m a far kinder, gentler and more sensitive person now and deal with people and situations on a higher level.

Response:

Gene, Ok.. so lets begin perhaps with the thought.. "inability to persist with emotionally-productive relationships.. " "and honesty with yourself" these two are essential to look at.. for if you are honest with you.. you would seek another who is honest with themselves.. and it is the whole basis of relationships.. trust, honesty, faith in each other.. what causes Gene to not be able to persist in emotionally-productive relationships.. which element trust, honesty, or faith in the other.. Pamela Gene Costanza <evilpri…@compuserve.com

wrote in message

news:37E3A040.B4268FCF@compuserve.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

While I’m not an ‘icon’ of society or the world, I don’t *believe* to be that "beautiful", but I have been told, on many occasions in my life, that I’m quite a good-looking guy. But that’s not the point… I have never *felt* so, on the inside OR outside, mainly because of my inability to persist with emotionally-productive relationships. Even after some time in relationships, I start to defeat its success unconsciously and I get more and more creative each time. There is something to be sad positively about everyone. It’s all attitude and demeanor. HONEST attitude and demeanor. Honesty with yourself is a number one motivation. I don’t disagree about how f’ed up and shallow society may seem. It’s the f’ed up and shallow PEOPLE who make it this way. Not all people subscribe to this shallowness, though, and these are the people we seek. No, it isn’t an easy task, but people are all we’ve got. Beauty and riches aren’t the lifelong manifest.

Response:

While I’m not an ‘icon’ of society or the world, I don’t *believe* to be that "beautiful", but I have been told, on many occasions in my life, that I’m quite a good-looking guy. But that’s not the point… I have never *felt* so, on the inside OR outside, mainly because of my inability to persist with emotionally-productive relationships. Even after some time in relationships, I start to defeat its success unconsciously and I get more and more creative each time. There is something to be sad positively about everyone. It’s all attitude and demeanor. HONEST attitude and demeanor. Honesty with yourself is a number one motivation. I don’t disagree about how f’ed up and shallow society may seem. It’s the f’ed up and shallow PEOPLE who make it this way. Not all people subscribe to this shallowness, though, and these are the people we seek. No, it isn’t an easy task, but people are all we’ve got. Beauty and riches aren’t the lifelong manifest.

Response:

Matt, There is one secret that you are missing, if you feel good about the you inside of you.. it projects.. and I have known to many patients with "Ugly" outsides that found beautiful loves.. and the inside shown through, they captured the love by being themselves.. I have known so many people that during their times of low self esteem they keep going lower, and appear less "beautiful"  to others.. and when they get it back together they are amazing and magnetic and beautiful.. It comes from within.. that is a definite.. no doubt about it.. look at you, through eyes of time, see yourself as when you felt good about yourself and compare it to now.. tell me then, where it comes from.. your projection, or their image.. or the combination of both.. Pamela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Matt <x…@x.com

wrote in message news:37E32D88.64C1@x.com… You speak of feeling that you are ugly.  Moshi, I can honestly tell you

that

the ugliest people I have ever met were not what you would call ugly on

the

outside, but rather on the inside.  If you give a person a chance to get

to

know you and you are kind and loving and give of yourself, then they

will come

to see you as you truly are – and that won’t be an ugly person, not at

all.

Nice sentiment, but it isn’t always true. Ok, I’ll come right out and say it, as far as I know, its never true when it comes to girls, and rarely true even with friends. There was a time when I really think I was "beautiful" on the inside, that I had a great capacity to share and to love someone. But because I’m ugly on the outside, I’ve never gotten to use what I have (had?) on the inside. And as the years go on, I find that the love and the light inside me has become less and less. I’m sorry, I read this group a lot, mainly to convince myself that my condition isn’t that unusual. I usually don’t post, but this really made me mad. It puts the blame on the ugly person by saying: "Well, the *real* reason you can’t find a companion is that there’s something wrong with you on the inside." rather than admitting the hard truth that in our society many, many things are often reserved for the attractive ones. -Matt

Response:

Scott L wrote:

Jae,just by replying to my post you have helped me  know that I am not alone.  I think you have a gift that lets you reach out to people who are in need.                 thank you,Scott

     Thank you for your kind words, darlin’.  <smile

 We don’t hear a whole

lot from you, Scott, but I listen when you speak.  We are all lonely sometimes, but never truly alone as long we can come here to speak with each other and learn from each other, as I have learned from you.  Hugs, Jae "From deep within our secret soul………                              Do demons dwell and take their toll."                                      Once posted by                                           ~oriecat~

Response:

You speak of feeling that you are ugly.  Moshi, I can honestly tell you that the ugliest people I have ever met were not what you would call ugly on the outside, but rather on the inside.  If you give a person a chance to get to know you and you are kind and loving and give of yourself, then they will come to see you as you truly are – and that won’t be an ugly person, not at all.

Nice sentiment, but it isn’t always true. Ok, I’ll come right out and say it, as far as I know, its never true when it comes to girls, and rarely true even with friends. There was a time when I really think I was "beautiful" on the inside, that I had a great capacity to share and to love someone. But because I’m ugly on the outside, I’ve never gotten to use what I have (had?) on the inside. And as the years go on, I find that the love and the light inside me has become less and less. I’m sorry, I read this group a lot, mainly to convince myself that my condition isn’t that unusual. I usually don’t post, but this really made me mad. It puts the blame on the ugly person by saying: "Well, the *real* reason you can’t find a companion is that there’s something wrong with you on the inside." rather than admitting the hard truth that in our society many, many things are often reserved for the attractive ones. -Matt

Response:

Jae wrote:

  You know, Scott, my first thought on reading this was, "No, not all of us. I don’t."…….but then, I thought of the times when I know I can’t walk without a limp or when I’m knowing the pain will show in my face and I will avoid going out. And because I know that I cannot make promises or always be available to go/do/speak with someone, I avoid making any friends here. But, I avoided close friends even before my illness. Lot’s of "acquaintances", but letting very, very few people ever get close to knowing me. But, now, I even avoid the acquaintances. So, I guess I might be fitting that "social phobia" bit some, too. Hugs, Jae Jae,just by replying to my post you have helped me  know that I am not alone.  I think you have a gift that lets you reach out to people who are in need.                       thank you,Scott

Response:

Dear "Meatguy"…thanks for the welcome =)

Hello, Welcome to the SocialPhobia list. We are all here to support each other & everyone is welcome. This list is brand new so please jump right in & introduce yourself. Topics for discussion can be anything related to Social Phobia. Considering that Social Phobias affects so many aspects of our lives, that leaves it pretty open. SocialPhobia-subscr…@onelist.com Subscribe to the list through email

Regards, Jenn — – — – — – — – "Feeling screwed up at a screwed up time in a screwed up place does not necessarily make you screwed up." — from the film _Pump Up The Volume_ http://members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html <– Mental Health Guide

Response:

[Post + email] Hi Moshi and well met! On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:52:44 GMT, moshi…@my-deja.com wrote:

I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother.

Since mother’s judgements are usually biased, I can but assume that you’re right here. However, being ugly is not a cause of social phobia or anything else. Like it happens usually for shy people, you seek for explanations related to looks (being ugly, or fat, or short, or having a big nose, etc.) or skills (many shybies underestimate their intelliigence). Perhaps even those who told you that think that this may be a cause – they’re wrong. OTOH, this has affected your self-esteem and made the problem worse.

All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.

A whole history in a few words. There I see a sort of prejudice that affects the image other have of you. Being brilliant with your jokes is not enough, as for other reasons you don’t fit to a "popular" stereotype. While you’re not percieved as "one of them", for hard you can try. I also suspect that your IQ is far above average, which (paradoxically maybe) *is* a problem, as it makes you different from others.

I’ve three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret.

Do you mean that you didn’t graduate? Sorry hearing this. Are you considering further solutions for getting a grade in such case? I mean, considering separately your social phobia and studies. I can know about colleges only indirectly (here in Italy the system is just another thing), but also from one college to another in US/Canada there may be relevant differences. I know that for you losing that experience is a regret anyway, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost 21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants; malls are an absolute nightmare; I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying me.

Perhaps following some step-by-step programs may help you. Take a look also to alt.support.shyness (the FAQ is mantained by Tim Arens, and I remember something good there) or to alt.support.social-phobia (I’m not familiar with that forum, but the name tells you all). And of course, hang in here!

I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain.

Please don’t. You’ll possibly regret it later. I can’t give you medical advice, but *you*, too, can’t. Even more when you’re in such an emotional state. Some fellow posters may know and give you tips on use of meds, share their experiences etc., but be always careful. Caution suggests that your doctor is the only reliable source, however good the advice you get may be. Much better, try to figure out something that may comfort you in such moments. Whatever you like, but not abusing meds (or anything else dangerous – surfing the net is OK I guess). Remove "iggle" from the address to reply. <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/

Response:

Hi Moshi…maybe I can help here. Please read all of this,and I’ll try not to be too long. Okay…ever hear the saying "So and so had bad chemistry with so and so"? If anyone’s told you that you’re ugly,their statement of it does NOT make it a fact.What that means is simply that you and this person’s eyes didn’t quite click. If you really wanna get psychological,check this out;there is a large percentage of people who will say someone’s ugly,without even meaning it.You know why?A few people may have been bullied early in life that in some small way resembled you.(Only the person calling you ugly isn’t aware of this memory;it’s probably blocked out).So,this person will see you,and not like you…and won’t be able to figure out wht.So…in immaturity,the first thing will be "You’re ugly." Sure doesn’t mean that you are. Let’s look at another reason;behind every name caller is someone that,no matter how confident they act,there is something they don’t like about theirself. As I got older,I even had something admitted to me;this girl,for no reason,would say all the time "You have a very long nose,I hate it!"(Boy I miss high school) lol You know what?I saw her a year ago,and she admitted something.See,she was a ‘bleach head’ who wished for blonde hair.She was jealous of people who naturally were blonde.She said she wanted to put me down because she was jealous over hair color.She even apologized. So,there’s 2 reasons. Also…check this out.There is a ’singer’ (if you can call her that) named Shania Twain…actually she talks her songs,rather than singing. Well…most all guys like her,and are like "Oh,she’s so hot!" Not me.When I look at her,all I can think is how I like a girl with a bit more weight and body to her.And instead of her squinty eyes,I like big,’puppy’ eyes. So…Shania Twain,admired by several,has very bad chemistry with my eyes. Now does that mean she’s ugly?Nope.It only means that there’s a beauty to her that my eyes are missing. And as someone else pointed out..actions make one ugly,also.I don’t like flashy,showy,stuck on theirself people. In closing,it is extremely possible to have bad chemistry with several people’s eyes.And then one day,Bam!You WILL be out and run across people who tell you how great you are in  their eyes. Like someone else said…No one’s really ugly.Like with my Shania thing..I don’t call her ugly.Rather,I just say that she doesn’t appeal to me as much as some. So,Moshi…read this and KNOW that you aren’t ugly. In fact,consider the beauty of a person like yourself who WANTS to know people and be friendly. You take care,and let us all know how you are. Sincerely, Walter * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Hi, Walter What a great explanation! I especially liked your expression about you and the persons eyes not clicking. I never thought of it that way, but it’s absolutely right. Nanny — Don’t be reckless with other peoples hearts. Don’t put up with people who are reckless with yours. To reply by email remove 4cats. SadWalter wrote in message <0089063a.87812…@usw-ex0106-042.remarq.com

… Hi Moshi…maybe I can help here. Please read all of this,and I’ll try not to be too long. Okay…ever hear the saying "So and so had bad chemistry with so and so"? If anyone’s told you that you’re ugly,their statement of it does NOT make

it a fact.What that means is simply that you and this person’s eyes didn’t quite click.

If you really wanna get psychological,check this out;there is a large

percentage of people who will say someone’s ugly,without even meaning it.You know why?A few people may have been bullied early in life that in some small way resembled you.(Only the person calling you ugly isn’t aware of this memory;it’s probably blocked out).So,this person will see you,and not like you…and won’t be able to figure out wht.So…in immaturity,the first thing will be "You’re ugly."

Sure doesn’t mean that you are. Let’s look at another reason;behind every name caller is someone that,no

matter how confident they act,there is something they don’t like about theirself.

As I got older,I even had something admitted to me;this girl,for no

reason,would say all the time "You have a very long nose,I hate it!"(Boy I miss high school)

lol You know what?I saw her a year ago,and she admitted something.See,she

was a ‘bleach head’ who wished for blonde hair.She was jealous of people who naturally were blonde.She said she wanted to put me down because she was jealous over hair color.She even apologized.

So,there’s 2 reasons. Also…check this out.There is a ’singer’ (if you can call her that) named

Shania Twain…actually she talks her songs,rather than singing.

Well…most all guys like her,and are like "Oh,she’s so hot!" Not me.When I look at her,all I can think is how I like a girl with a bit

more weight and body to her.And instead of her squinty eyes,I like big,’puppy’ eyes.

So…Shania Twain,admired by several,has very bad chemistry with my eyes. Now does that mean she’s ugly?Nope.It only means that there’s a beauty to

her that my eyes are missing.

And as someone else pointed out..actions make one ugly,also.I don’t like

flashy,showy,stuck on theirself people.

In closing,it is extremely possible to have bad chemistry with several

people’s eyes.And then one day,Bam!You WILL be out and run across people who tell you how great you are in  their eyes.

Like someone else said…No one’s really ugly.Like with my Shania thing..I

don’t call her ugly.Rather,I just say that she doesn’t appeal to me as much as some.

So,Moshi…read this and KNOW that you aren’t ugly. In fact,consider the beauty of a person like yourself who WANTS to know

people and be friendly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

You take care,and let us all know how you are. Sincerely, Walter * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network

*

The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

    Just carrying your words to make sure Moshi sees them. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jenn wrote in message <19990911003911.23257.00003…@ng-fb1.aol.com

… Moshi: I cant tell you just how much I identified with your experiences and feelings. I’m on effexor and topemax for social phobia and depression. They seem to be the first combination of medications that work for me though. I

have

never been on Klonopin, like you are on now though. Like you, I too have

been

on many meds. I don’t like going around in public either. I don’t like even going out to

my

mailbox to get my mail. It takes a lot for me to do that somtimes..let

alone to

go to school every day and walk on campus.l’ve scoped out ways to try and

get

from my car to the class room with passing as little people as possible.

It’s

not way to live …I know. And I know you feel frustrated with it too Im sure…I’m doing much  better with my social problems…I am 24. It has

taken

me several years to reach this point..and I think what does it is exposure..over and over and over…I know it sounds like a cliche… :  at least that is what I thought when my shrink or mother (a counselor) would

say

it..but I think it is true. Just doing it (i.e., forcing myself to go to

class,

or go to the mailbox, or go to the store) is what helps make it easier over time. I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people. I think I’m ugly too. Well, most of the time. But in my heart I feel that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see people and I can see beauty in every single person I see. Whether it is in their eyes, or hair..or whatever…and don’t forget that when someone gets to know you…that

outside

starts to look different..it becomes very beautiful…because they learn

that

the inside is beautiful. I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain. You have to think about the future though, no? what good will it be if you

are

sick because your liver is damaged? This is a very frustrating predicament,

I’m

sure : Anyway, I’m glad you decided to post what you did. You reached out…that

takes

so much courage and strength. Please don’t give up…and don’t hesitate to

call

upon me if you wanna talk. Regards, Jenn — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – You get what you pay for But I just had no intention of living this way -Counting Crows "Raining In Baltimore" http://members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html <– Mental Health Guide

Response:

Hi Moshi, I am sorry you have been having such a difficult time.  You are wise though to reach out to others as you have here and to share your feelings.  It’s always so much more difficult when we hold our feelings in all the time.  Depression is so hard to face on a day to day basis and then when you fall into one of those deeper spells of it such as you describe, it becomes even more painful. I have dealt with depression all of my life but only recently had it formally diagnosed.  I am now taking an anti-depressant (Wellbutrin) for the first time and find that sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn’t.  I understand you have to give these meds time though; I don’t think any of them work too quickly.  I have discovered that when I do fall into the heavy depressions I will come out of them a little quicker if I reach out to others in any way that I am able. Do you ever feel like you sometimes want to just scream out "Somebody help me!"?  Keep reaching out to others, whether it is here or in e-mail, or with your family or where ever you are able to reach out.  Anytime you don’t feel comfortable sharing with others then try writing your thoughts down, maybe keeping a journal.  Just doing that can help more than you might think.  At the very least you are releasing a little pressure. You speak of feeling that you are ugly.  Moshi, I can honestly tell you that the ugliest people I have ever met were not what you would call ugly on the outside, but rather on the inside.  If you give a person a chance to get to know you and you are kind and loving and give of yourself, then they will come to see you as you truly are – and that won’t be an ugly person, not at all.   I don’t know if you care anything about old movies, or love stories, but if you ever get a chance to see the movie "The Enchanted Cottage" – please see it. It’s an old black and white movie and you may be able to rent it or find it on TV sometime.  It illustrates something very important and would be worth your while to watch it.   Something else can help, if you give it a chance.  Do you have any special interests or hobbies?  And how about anything you are really good at or something that makes you feel good about yourself?  Find something like this and get involved with it, even if it is by yourself at first.  Do something that will help you to feel good about you.  I’ve always had trouble liking and accepting myself, but I find when I am able to do this, suddenly others seem to see me in a more positive light also.  It is amazing how the way you feel about yourself affects so strongly the way others see you and respond to you.   I don’t know if anything I’ve said could be of any help to you, but no matter what I hope you will keep posting and getting your feelings out.  I’m pretty messed up myself much of the time, but I sure have found a lot of understanding, love and acceptance on this newsgroup. My best to you, Bonnie The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain.   Kahlil Gibran                                                                  

Response:

Moshi,and Jenn,  The people who are on this list are very helpful. They all have social phobia,and understand how you feel in social surroundings.

Response:

I did it again,I hit the send key too soon. Hello, Welcome to the SocialPhobia list. We are all here to support each other & everyone is welcome. This list is brand new so please jump right in & introduce yourself. Topics for discussion can be anything related to Social Phobia. Considering that Social Phobias affects so many aspects of our lives, that leaves it pretty open. SocialPhobia-subscr…@onelist.com Subscribe to the list through email                         Meatguy

Response:

Scott wrote:

 The people who are on this list are very helpful. They all have social phobia

     You know, Scott, my first thought on reading this was, "No, not all of us.  I don’t."…….but then, I thought of the times when I know I can’t walk without a limp or when I’m knowing the pain will show in my face and I will avoid going out.  And because I know that I cannot make promises or always be available to go/do/speak with someone, I avoid making any friends here.  But, I avoided close friends even before my illness.  Lot’s of "acquaintances", but letting very, very few people ever get close to knowing me.  But, now, I even avoid the acquaintances.  So, I guess I might be fitting that "social phobia" bit some, too.  Hugs, Jae — "Rivers belong where they can ramble………             Eagles belong where they can fly……..                       I’ve got to be where my spirit can run free."                 Steven Swartz from Pippin

Response:

 Just carrying your words to make sure Moshi sees them. Bill

Thank you so much, Bill…<smile

Regards, Jenn — – — – — – — – "Feeling screwed up at a screwed up time in a screwed up place does not necessarily make you screwed up." — from the film _Pump Up The Volume_ http://members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html <– Mental Health Guide

Response:

I’m on effexor and klonopin and they aren’t helping my social phobia or depression.  I hate going out in public because being around people makes me anxious.  I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  The only person who says I look good is my mother. All social encounters with me are like a chess game.  I’m always trying to figure out the perfect thing to say.  Usually I’m just the one that hovers around the conversation and then occasionaly chimes in with a joke.  People usually laugh, but they don’t respect me.  I’m just the goofy joker who no one takes seriously.  I’m just the comic relief.  No one wants to hang out with me.  I’ve never had a girlfriend.  I’ve three friends in the last 10 years (two in high school, one in college).  I’ve dropped out of college after three years because the thought of graduating after not really experiencing college isn’t a thought I can bare.  Also, my experience at college has been so painful, with so much void, that I can’t even stand walking back on campus, because it floods me with feelings of regret. People didn’t even know I existed in high school.  I had the fewest claps of anyone when I went up to the podium to receive my diploma.  I never went into the cafeteria my entire senior year in high school, because of the social distress it caused.  It’s so painful to look back and know that I didn’t get the high school experience, and I never will have the chance again.  Pretty much the same thing happened in college.  I vowed to myself that once I started college I would be a different person.  I would be a wild extrovert.  No one knew me from high school.  I didn’t have to be someone that everyone expected me to be.  But nothing changed.  I skipped most of my classes and stayed in bed.  I slept most of the day and shopped alone at night.  I went through so many roomates it was ridiculous.  No one wanted to room with me, so every year I would get a fresh batch of roomates.  One guy was assigned to my apartment, met me, realized how much of a ugly loser I was, and after five minutes went to the housing office and signed up for a different apartment.  I do everything alone.  I’m now 20 almost 21, I’ve been on several medications including zoloft, wellbutrin, xanax, buspar, and I’m currently on effexor and klonopin.  I get in these moods like I’m in right now, where I get so sad and lonely.  It’s so painful.  The only times I’m not sad are when I’m around my family, but when I’m left alone I get worse.  And then in social situations outside of my family, I’m a nervous wreck. I want to do stuff, and I know that will cure the depression, but I can’t because I’m ugly, a social misfit, and I hate dealing with strangers.  I avoid going to restaurants; malls are an absolute nightmare; I even dislike going to the mailbox to get mail for fear that there will be a car that passes by or a person.  I hate loneliness but yet I hate social situations.  It’s a paradox that is destroying me. I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Moshi: I cant tell you just how much I identified with your experiences and feelings. I’m on effexor and topemax for social phobia and depression. They seem to be the first combination of medications that work for me though. I have never been on Klonopin, like you are on now though. Like you, I too have been on many meds. I don’t like going around in public either. I don’t like even going out to my mailbox to get my mail. It takes a lot for me to do that somtimes..let alone to go to school every day and walk on campus.l’ve scoped out ways to try and get from my car to the class room with passing as little people as possible. It’s not way to live …I know. And I know you feel frustrated with it too Im sure…I’m doing much  better with my social problems…I am 24. It has taken me several years to reach this point..and I think what does it is exposure..over and over and over…I know it sounds like a cliche… :  at least that is what I thought when my shrink or mother (a counselor) would say it..but I think it is true. Just doing it (i.e., forcing myself to go to class, or go to the mailbox, or go to the store) is what helps make it easier over time.

I know I’m ugly.  I’ve been told so a number of times by people.  

I think I’m ugly too. Well, most of the time. But in my heart I feel that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see people and I can see beauty in every single person I see. Whether it is in their eyes, or hair..or whatever…and don’t forget that when someone gets to know you…that outside starts to look different..it becomes very beautiful…because they learn that the inside is beautiful.

I want to raise my dosage of medication.  Maybe that will help.  I don’t care if it destroys my liver.  I really don’t care.  Right now I’m on 1 mg of klonopin and 225 mg of effexor.  I would like the klonpin doubled and the effexor raised at least another 150 mg.I just to medicate the pain.

You have to think about the future though, no? what good will it be if you are sick because your liver is damaged? This is a very frustrating predicament, I’m sure : Anyway, I’m glad you decided to post what you did. You reached out…that takes so much courage and strength. Please don’t give up…and don’t hesitate to call upon me if you wanna talk. Regards, Jenn — – — – — – — – — – — – — – — – You get what you pay for But I just had no intention of living this way -Counting Crows "Raining In Baltimore" http://members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html <– Mental Health Guide

Response:

Question:

In <30EC15DA.1…@ix.netcom.com

Michael Hatziemmanuel

<ha…@ix.netcom.com

writes: Laura, I also started on betaseron on 12/20/95.  I experienced the same

flu-like symptoms 3 or 4 hrs.

after the injection.  Also some injection site redness.  The first

night’s symptoms were horrible,

uncontrollable shivering and the inability to even roll over in bed.

The next day, I felt totally

wasted, but pleased that I could move again.  The problems have not

been nearly as bad on

subsequent injections and I thought I was finally past them, until

last night.  Bad chills again,

but not as bad as the first night.  By the way, I take 2 aspirins

before the injection and again

in 4 hrs. and that seems to help.  I hope the reports are true that

these symptoms finally go away.

I suppose time will tell.  It really bothers me that I have to feel

so bad in order to perhaps get

better.  I think Berlex has quite a scam going, with the only benefits

of Betaseron a possible

reduction in exacerbations. No way to tell if it is helping.  Well,

might as well try it for a

while til something better comes up. Mike H.

Mike,     Why would you take a Medication that does not give you relief or shows any improvement with a two week period? If a medication does not work and/or show significant improvement in your symptoms, what good is it? Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com

Response:

In <4cjgo3$…@fnnews.fnal.gov

egst…@cordelia.fnal.gov (Eric G.

Stern) writes:

In article <4cj29f$…@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com

pla…@ix.netcom.com(Claude A. Du Bois ) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In <30EC15DA.1…@ix.netcom.com Michael Hatziemmanuel <ha…@ix.netcom.com writes: Mike,    Why would you take a Medication that does not give you relief or shows any improvement with a two week period? If a medication does

not

work and/or show significant improvement in your symptoms, what good

is

it? Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com Claude,    Try knowing what you’re talking about before you spout off. Lots of medications take a long time to work.  All antidepressants don’t show any effects until they have been taken for six to eight weeks.                            Eric Stern

Eric,     Before you spout off again, would you please tell us all the name of JUST ONE of the Anti-depressants that you are talking about? It would seem to me and ( According to my PDR, that two weeks is all the time it takes. Was unable to find one that took more then two weeks!)it would be of little use to take an Anti-depressant that took 6 weeks to work, I guess the drugs you are talking about are the ones given to people who are so Depressed that it gives them time to commit suicide. Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com

Response:

In article <4clurm$…@ixnews5.ix.netcom.com

pla…@ix.netcom.com(Claude A. Du Bois ) writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In <4cjgo3$…@fnnews.fnal.gov egst…@cordelia.fnal.gov (Eric G. Stern) writes: In article <4cj29f$…@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com pla…@ix.netcom.com(Claude A. Du Bois ) writes: In <30EC15DA.1…@ix.netcom.com Michael Hatziemmanuel <ha…@ix.netcom.com writes: Claude,    Try knowing what you’re talking about before you spout off. Lots of medications take a long time to work.  All antidepressants don’t show any effects until they have been taken for six to eight weeks.                                Eric Stern Eric,    Before you spout off again, would you please tell us all the name of JUST ONE of the Anti-depressants that you are talking about?It would seem to me and ( According to my PDR, that two weeks is all the time it takes. Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com

Well, I was incorrect about the six weeks.  According to a practicing psychiatrist of my acquaintance, it only takes *four* weeks for the antidepressant to start showing an effect. That is *all* of them including: Elavil, Pamelor, Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and Paxil. There, that’s six.  I’d believe someone who has practical experience prescribing medications and observing their effects over someone who just is reading the PDR.                                 Eric Stern

Response:

Claude, I have gotten much better. Used a cane and had exacerbations every 6 months at least. Head tremor is gone and my Sept neuro visit was "essentially normal". Phoey on you! In article <4coh7f$…@ixnews7.ix.netcom.com

, pla…@ix.netcom.com(Claude A. Du Bois ) writes:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

In <199601062248.OAA26…@oneworld.owt.com "Michael J. Monroe" <mmon…@ONEWORLD.OWT.COM writes: Claude, you wrote the words below.There are many reason for taking BETASERON for longer than 2 weeks because you haven’t seen any improvement, but the main one is it takes a while for this drug to build up in your body and start doing want it is suppose to.Namely block our infections and or illnesses from you so they can’t cause an onset of an MS attack to the body. It is worth hanging in there Mike.                                                Sue Monroe Sue,    It’s interesting that you state Betaseron " Namely blocks our infections and/or illnesses from you!" Not even the Manufacturer makes these claims! Also, all I ever see or hear about Betaseron is that people have less exacerbations! Which has been show can be done using a Placebo! I have as yet to hear anyone state that they have gotten " Better!" Using Betaseron. And by " Better " I mean where the MS has regressed and people have regained any functions that they had lost.    If your willing to be a Guinea Pig for the Medical Community and wealthy enough to be able to buy the drug, then by all means do so! But, please don’t make statements that are at best Wishful Thinking! Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com Mike,    Why would you take a Medication that does not give you relief or shows any improvement with a two week period? If a medication does not work and/or show significant improvement in your symptoms, what good is it? Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com

Response:

In <4cp36a$…@ixnews8.ix.netcom.com

k…@ix.netcom.com (Kate Murphy)

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

pla…@ix.netcom.com(Claude A. Du Bois ) wrote: Eric,    Before you spout off again, would you please tell us all the name of JUST ONE of the Anti-depressants that you are talking about? It would seem to me and ( According to my PDR, that two weeks is all the time it takes. Was unable to find one that took more then two

weeks!)it

would be of little use to take an Anti-depressant that took 6 weeks

to

work, I guess the drugs you are talking about are the ones given to people who are so Depressed that it gives them time to commit

suicide.

The SSRI’s (selective seratonin re-uptake inhibitors) like prozac, paxil, and zoloft do take several weeks before they are fully

Kate,     There is a big difference between a drug " Taking Full Effect in Several Weeks " and an Anti-depressant that supposedly takes 6 WEEKS! I have found that anti-depressants normally take only " DAYS " before the effects are noted. And by the end of 2 weeks the full effects have registered.

effective.  Psychiatrists and other mental health providers need to evaluate patients very carefully for suicidal potential and treat them accordingly. There are other antidepressants that can be used, either short or long term.  Patients who are a serious risk for suicide are usually hospitalized.

    I hope your not attempting to say that there are anti-depressants that take more then two weeks to show signs of improvement? Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Kate k…@ix.netcom.com For additional information on MS try WWW sites: http://www.helsinki.fi/~ahalko/ms.html http://www.infosci.org/MS-Internat/FAQ-1.2.html

Response:

Claude, Usually I try to keep quiet through all this but you are making it hard!  Like father, like son, or whoever – Suggest you get a new PDR, or open your mind a bit – many of the new generation anti-depressants take up to six weeks to work.  I’m on one but feel no need to attempt to enlighten you – I’ll just go bang my head against the wall instead. Please, remember that there is more information in this world than any one person can know. D. LaFrance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Claude,    Try knowing what you’re talking about before you spout off. Lots of medications take a long time to work.  All antidepressants don’t show any effects until they have been taken for six to eight weeks.                               Eric Stern Eric,    Before you spout off again, would you please tell us all the name of JUST ONE of the Anti-depressants that you are talking about? It would seem to me and ( According to my PDR, that two weeks is all the time it takes. Was unable to find one that took more then two weeks!)it would be of little use to take an Anti-depressant that took 6 weeks to work, I guess the drugs you are talking about are the ones given to people who are so Depressed that it gives them time to commit suicide. Claude pla…@ix.netcom.com

Response:

Ed

Question:

Prozac Truth How to taper off medication   ————————————————————————— —– Quitting ssris and psychiatric medication must be done by tapering off, very slowly. Step by step instructions found on this Web Site.   How to Taper Off Prozac, Sarafem, Paxil, Celexa, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and other Psychiatric Medication Read testimonials of people that have quit psychiatric medication with this method. Click Here (This page also includes recent feedback from people tapering off medication with this method) I want to hear from you. If you are using this method or not, it does help to have someone to talk with during withdrawal. Click Here to send e-mail. A change in your diet can make a change in how you feel. Click here to visit a common sense Web Site by, Dr. Hugh Mann, M.D. If you plan to change your diet while tapering, do so mildly. If you smoke or drink coffee, first taper off the medication before you quit. Your metabolism plays a major role during tapering and detox. Take the time to read Dr. Mann’s information. How to Taper Step-by-Step Recommendation Click the text below that applies to you situation: Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Currently using medication and have already started to taper You have already quit taking medication but are suffering from side effects Currently using medication and have not reduced the dosage yet Inform your doctor you wish to discontinue the medication Begin replenishing the intracellular glutathione levels in the body. This needs to be done before you begin to taper. a) Begin by increasing intracellular levels of glutathione for at least one full week before beginning the taper. Longer if necessary. I have received information from a physician that he is having people stay at this step for 8 weeks before tapering. Each individual is different. I do not feel that an arbitrary amount of time on this step is warranted. What has shown to be the most effective is staying on this step for at least one full week or until most of your side effects are gone or nearly gone AND YOU FEEL VERY STABLE. You should not begin to taper off the medication until all or nearly all of your current side effects are gone. Getting yourself very stable before tapering is critical. If you are getting the

Question:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression? How many different meds have you tried? How many therapists? Were you/are you unemployed? How many suicide attempts? How do you stop the pain? How do you keep believeing in the good times? I need to know, Gloria

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

   I’ve been growing accustomed to myself for 43 years now.  Just when I think I know myself, I change.  I would say that I have been growing accustomed to the "new" me for about 4 years now.  I have been here on ASD for most of that time. How many different meds have you tried?

   If you exclude alcohol, and the fact that in the 70’s and 80’s I was pretty well self-medicated with illegal drugs, then only zoloft. How many therapists?

   Just one, roughly once or twice a week for about 2 years. Were you/are you unemployed?

   Yes to both questions. How many suicide attempts?

   None, and tho I have thought about my own death/suicide from time to time, I would not say that I have ever been "seriously" suicidal. How do you stop the pain?

   Time just moves on.  It comes and goes.  I was VERY lost and confused for a while there.  Now various strong emotions come and go. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

   I suppose I pause a little, try to get a little distance from my own emotions, and remember that these ARE the good times.  I don’t know what I did when I was really confused.  I guess I was just sort of biding my time.  Waiting for the storm to pass. Sincerely Stewart — The Metaphor Man  *and*  The Great Defender of the Self (remove the SPAMBLOCK) Please send me an e-mail copy of your posted response.

Response:

(posted/e-mailed) How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

I still am growing accustomed to it…I think it will be a life-long process. How many different meds have you tried?

I don’t know an exact number, but it’s quite a few–Effexor, Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Lithium, Buspar, Elavil, Doxepin, Serzone, Pamelor, Vivactil, Xanax….plus different combinations of all these. How many therapists?

A few, but only one I felt comfortable with. Were you/are you unemployed?

I was unemployed for a very long time, because of my low self-esteem, shyness, and depression.  It made life horrible.  But I have a job now, and things are much better. How many suicide attempts?

None, although I have thought about it. How do you stop the pain?

Wait for it to end (it always does). How do you keep believeing in the good times?

I keep remembering that the sadness won’t last forever, and I’ll be ok.

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

Never have. How many different meds have you tried?

7. How many therapists?

5. Were you/are you unemployed?

Never/No How many suicide attempts?

1 serious one. How do you stop the pain?

write.  exercise.  paint. drink. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

Because they are always there. I always upswing.  No matter how deep the shadows, the other side is always there.  And I wonder how I could have felt so low. jaz

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

Well, my episodes of depression seem to be situational. The first one sneaked up on me and I was pretty far into it {about six months I think} before I realized something was wrong. How many different meds have you tried?

Only one. I was very fortunate that Paxil worked for me and got me through a very difficult time. How many therapists?

Well, over the years, several but not specifically for depression although depression was present. I went to one when I was getting a divorce. I attended a group for Adult Children of Alcoholics for a long time. I went to a therapist the last time for help in coming to terms with the death of someone I loved very much. Were you/are you unemployed?

I am now retired. I have never been unemployed. For a long time I taught the seventh grade during the day and worked in a bookstore for four hours every night and for eight hours every Saturday and Sunday. Looking back on it, I am amazed that I could do that. But you do what you have to do. I was the sole support of myslf and my younger son until he moved out six years ago. How many suicide attempts?

None. It has never been an option for me. My child needed me, and by the time he didn’t, I found out that I am a survivor. How do you stop the pain?

I am very aware that I am subject to situational depression. One thing that triggers it for me is letting myself get too tired. There are also certain subjects I avoid. I do not see movies that feature blood and guts. I am an abuse survivor; I have seen enough of that in my life. I exercise , walk, and ride my bike. I swim and kayak. Exercise, getting out and moving my body, is beneficial to me. And, as can occasionally happen, if none of these things work, I hold on and ride it out. I KNOW that if I can only hold on, things WILL get better again. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

Because I am 65 years old, and besides wrinkles and arthritis and a nagging and INFURIATING pain in my ankle that prevents me dancing, I have also enough life experience to KNOW that the good times will come back. I have been through this cycle many time. P.

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

Accustomed to it. I want to say never but I guess after you’ve had it for 6 months or a year it is familiar to you. How many different meds have you tried?

I tried 2 kinds at once for a few years but they really didn’t help much.  Eventually i started griping to my therapist and he referred me to my pdoc. Then it took about 6 months of experimenting (probably tried 4-5 medicines in various dosages) and then found that adding Desipramine to the prozac that wasn’t working really helped me. Been taking this for over 3 years. Haven’t had deep depression since I hit this combination. How many therapists?

One many years ago and I kept getting worse for years. he finally moved away and I went cold turkey for quite a few years and did pretty good. Then, this bout I found the right therapist from the beginning and have not changed. I would add that if you don’t seem to improve it would be well to keep telling the therapist you are dissatisfied until you either get help or change therapists. I think the most important thing for me was finding a therapist I was very comfortable with, a man who knew what i needed in terms of validating that my feelings were real and OK. Were you/are you unemployed?

I am retired. I was never unemployed while having depression and managed to be quite successful in my work. How many suicide attempts?

None. I always felt my kids needed me too much as a father. I may have wished for it but never came close to trying it. How do you stop the pain?

A combination of medicine and therapy– reaching the point where you realize that a lot of these painful feelings are because you were taught that they were bad feelings when in fact they were very normal feelings.  I especially had to learn not to beat up on myself, that I wasn’t a bad person. I also had to learn to find better ways to deal with anger and frustration than turning it on myself and ruminating about it. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

I feel good enough most of the time that I enjoy my life. And i have learned that when you have bad times, they do pass. And as you get better they pass quicker and are of less intensity. It’s is very hard work at times. I need to know, Gloria

Feel free to ask me anything at any time. Stan

Response:

How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

I first got treatment five years ago, at that time I did not believe I was depressed, it was my normal. I can now trace the depression back to when I was ten. I have followed certain behavioural patterns since then. I am now 34. Once I accepted that I was depressed it took me several years to become accustomed to it. It took this long as I have had to change a lot of things in my life. My attitude towards depression changes constantly. How many different meds have you tried?

I have been on numerous medications. How many therapists?

1 psychiatrist, 2 psychologists Were you/are you unemployed?

Employed as a nurse since leaving school How many suicide attempts?

I have alway’s been scared to attempt it in case I fail. How do you stop the pain?

When the pain is bad I can’t stop it. It takes over, however I have learned to regonise it so that I can do something about it before it gets really bad. For me being very busy and physical activity really help. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

I am very lucky in that the good times do happen to me in spite of me I try to reach out to others in the bad times, they can remind me of better times. I need to know, Gloria

take care Gloria Linda – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

I’m not sure what you mean by this. After 15 years of repeated depressive episodes, I’ve only recently started thinking of my depression as I do now: something that I will probably need to monitor and control forever. How many different meds have you tried?

SIx AD’s + lithium and Xanax. How many therapists?

4 Were you/are you unemployed?

No. Took a 5-week medical leave for depression a few months back. How many suicide attempts?

None How do you stop the pain?

I try to ride it out, rather than stop it. Posting here helps, journaling has helped in the past, medication and therapy. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

I try to be aware of when I am happy, those occasions when I’m having a near perfect moment, so that I can draw upon those memories when I need them. I also feel strongly that life is dynamic and cyclical. Circumstances will not always (or even ever) be the same as they are right now.  I try to remind myself when I’m miserable that life will circle back again. K Carpe Donut

Response:

<snip Stan: That was a wonderful reply to the questions and a very good quick primer in depression as an illness.  Thanks for sharing it with us. Mcavity

Thanks Mac. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Hey, Mister Tambourine Man, play a song for me"

Response:

<snip Stan: That was a wonderful reply to the questions and a very good quick primer in depression as an illness.  Thanks for sharing it with us. Mcavity "Hey, Mister Tambourine Man, play a song for me"

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression? How many different meds have you tried? How many therapists? Were you/are you unemployed? How many suicide attempts? How do you stop the pain? How do you keep believeing in the good times? I need to know, Gloria

1. took me about 13 years to realize that I was depressed, not just "different" 2. none, well, maybe food 3. just one, but he was an idiot and I only saw him twice 4. have been/currently am due to UK visa stuff 5. none – thought about it though 6. I accepted the pain, recognized that no one would be able to take it away from me no matter how much I might want them to, read a lot, wrote a lot, watched a *hell* of a lot of tv, found good friends and eventually talked to them about it, and then, about 6 years ago, something changed inside and the depression has lifted.  I think I’m closer to what "normal" is than since I was a small child.  It’s a good place to be. 7. For a long time I said I didn’t know what "good" really meant.  Now I’ve reached the conclusion that for me "good" equals contentment in doing what I’m doing (reading, walking, being alive, watching fireworks) at the moment.  Enjoying the company of friends.  Laughing at myself.  Those are the best times, and for whatever reason, it’s always been the little things that have pleased me the most.  A bird cocking it’s head as it watches me from its perch.  A funny shaped cloud.  Sunrise and moonset. Dryad – in the US for the holidays — "One fact can change your whole point of view.   For instance, did you know that King Kong was a lesbian?"  David Gerrold annagrey at sover dot net

Response:

Dear friends, How long did it take you to grow accustom to your depression?

I would say 2 to 3 years. How many different meds have you tried?

I wish I could remember. Quite a few and quite a few combinations. How many therapists?

4 psychiatrists and 5 therapists. Were you/are you unemployed?

I was employed full time and now I am very, very part time, basically unemployed and in a different type of work. How many suicide attempts?

Numerous, 3 hospitilized. How do you stop the pain?

I can’t always do that. I try to keep busy,put in place a very good support team which included ASD as a main source, accepted depression as part of me, change just about everything in my life, eliminated a lot of my stress factors, etc. How do you keep believeing in the good times?

Because they always comeback and as times go on, the more andmore they come back. Mary Beth

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m Rita. I’d like to get in touch with someone who is suffering from dysthymia like me . What medication? Therapy? hi rita i have dysthmia. Probably most of my life. Prozac worked for a wile then the effects seemed to wear out. Paxil works much better but i rarely enjoy anything anymore. Sexual enjoyment is almost nill. Can’t get enough sleep and don’t like to socalize much. Serzone did not work at all, left me feeling awful and more depressed than ever. I guess the answer is to keep switching meds until you and your doc find one that works. Be ready for a rough ride finding one. Your family should get some advice on dealing with it too or they will be real hard on you trying to get you to snap out of it.

I have dysthimia too and right now they are trying me on Serzone nd it’s not working either.  I don’t know that there will be anything left to try after the Serzone. Amanda

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I’m Rita. I’d like to get in touch with someone who is suffering from dysthymia like me . What medication? Therapy?

hi rita i have dysthmia. Probably most of my life. Prozac worked for a wile then the effects seemed to wear out. Paxil works much better but i rarely enjoy anything anymore. Sexual enjoyment is almost nill. Can’t get enough sleep and don’t like to socalize much. Serzone did not work at all, left me feeling awful and more depressed than ever. I guess the answer is to keep switching meds until you and your doc find one that works. Be ready for a rough ride finding one. Your family should get some advice on dealing with it too or they will be real hard on you trying to get you to snap out of it.

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I’m Rita. I’d like to get in touch with someone who is suffering from dysthymia like me . What medication? Therapy?

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Interested in others’ experiences with Dysthymia. Wayne

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many to handle…….

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HI TC, I was dx with dysthymia ….I m sorry I can’t remember how long ago…it has been over 4 yrs. At first I was dx as bipolar and I was put on Trazadon……I hated it…made me feel dizzy but it made me sleep and at the time I was getting 4hrs sleep at best…but I had horrible nitemares. I can not remember all the details. Fade into 2 yrs later….went back to same mental health office…..differant dr….He asked me questions……said you are have dysthymia…and he said that so servere I thought I wanted to just die. I was put onZoloft, Effexor,Remeron,Wellbrutrin.I can’t remember how much or if I took them together.If I search my memory I might be able to remember.Im sorry about that.I do think I was on Zoloft for a bit and then switched to the others. My dr told me that dysthymia was long term depression….but usually only lasts 5-6 yrs. I found nothing mild about it.I thought I was bipolar after reading here in asd and thought I was mis-dx again…but figured what the heck..Im getting meds and they seemed to work. I stopped my meds on my own…bad thing to do…but did it none the less. I have been med free for about 2-3 yrs…again my memory fails me. I still have bouts with my depression…but so far I am able to hold my own. Please go to the drs.It may take time but you need to find the right meds and the right combination of meds. I do NOT suggest to ANYONE to just stop the meds. Not a good move as anyone here will tell you. Good luck and I hope you find a good dr. Debbie

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If it is common for dysthymia sufferers to try four or five different drugs before hitting upon one that works, I will be greatly motivated to stick with my drug trials.)

I do not suffer from dysthymia, but it took me about 11 years to find a drug which could help me, and at the time I found it, the one I am on now didn’t exist yet. As far as I know, you can take as long as this, or several years to find the right one for you. Just my twopence. — Teilhard The Extraterrestrial Eat the sandwich to email.

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I would like to hear from others who suffer from dysthymia. Dysthymia is long-term, but mild depression. I don’t suffer from the deep despair typically associated with depression (my sympathy goes out to those who do), but I am solidly unhappy most of the time. My daily life is consumed by apathy, anhedonia, and unending weariness. Because I never crash into full depression, however, I avoid some of the derivative symptoms of that disease. I do not suffer from anxiety, hopelessness, or feelings of guilt. My self esteem is intact. And while I do think about killing myself, my thoughts of suicide are philosophical rather than desperate. Because it is mild, dysthymia can be difficult to detect. It is especially difficult to detect when, as in my case, it is a life-long condition; the sufferer does not realize anything is wrong and has a lifetime of coping mechanisms concealing his condition from others. I diagnosed myself about four years ago at the age of 28. After doing so, I started seeing a psychiatrist. She confirmed my diagnosis and prescribed, in succession, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Effexor. They had no effect on me. Because the drugs were not working (and because I found the therapy annoying) I stopped seeing my psychiatrist two years ago. I now realize I gave up too easily. Tomorrow, I intend to seek out a new psychiatrist and resume my experiments with antidepressant medication. Here is where I think it may be useful to hear from other dysthymia sufferers. I would like to know what success others have had treating dysthymia with drugs. Is there something about dysthymia that makes it inherently unresponsive to medication? Are specific SSRIs more effective than others at treating it? (I suspect that the answer will be, as it is for depression, that every case of dysthymia is different, and the effectiveness of drugs on each patient is therefore different. Nevertheless, I am curious to see if any pattern emerges in response to my questions. If it is common for dysthymia sufferers to try four or five different drugs before hitting upon one that works, I will be greatly motivated to stick with my drug trials.) -TC

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 Of course, the manic stuff can have interesting effects on my code (I program).

LOL. Sounds interesting — Regards, .

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Hi Tom, I have dysthymia and have probably suffered from it since I was 5-yrs-old

That’s about when mine started too, 4 or 5 years old.

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Hi Tom, I have dysthymia and have probably suffered from it since I was 5-yrs-old and forced into a nasty divorce and custody battle (among other battles) between my parents. Before I was put on meds I spent most days being aggressive. I would show my feelings through anger. I almost lost my marriage through my undiagnosed depression, before I got help. Most of my anger was displaced anger due to the fact that I was placed in the middle of my parents constant battle.

Interesting.  Sounds alot like someone I know. [a little snip to save space] I go through life in an almost numb state of emotion. I can put on a front when with friends and family (parents and other relatives) which was not possible before meds. But I do get through the day without incident on most days.

Effexor had that effect on me.  I have been off meds for over a year, as the side effects were causing more trouble than the depression.  Effexor made me extremely apathic – work would call, and I would be looking at the phone thinking "Fuck it".  I had 0 emotion and 0 motivation.  Imipramine (sp?) just made me sleep – anywhere, including across my desk.  And my mouth numb. I stopped taking meds because I could not risk losing my job over the effects, and actually, it was hard because they made me not care. I am seasonal, with manic weeks to boot.  Of course, the manic stuff can have interesting effects on my code (I program). – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Melia I am more myself in Solitude. For in solitude I am myself.                            -Melia Benjamin (c)August 2000 *x-no-archive: yes in headers

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 Anyway, I’ve never really understood the "I don’t want to take medications for the rest of my life" attitude.  Lot’s of people worry about that.

Yup. That attitude gets on my nerves. — Regards, .

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Did u experience complete remission after the treatment or did symptoms return?  Since dysthymia is chronic, I worry that I will have to take medications for life.

Although not given any specific diagnosis, I’d say I had double- depression (studying psychology I think my self-diagosis should be accurate). 100mg of Zoloft and I’m completely fine now – And trust me, these things aren’t merely placebos. Apparently 50mg Zoloft is too low for most people, so if 50mg doesn’t work for you, you’ll probably have to increase to 75 or 100. Maybe stay away from Paxil / Aropax and Effexor, since there seems to be reports of crappy withdrawals etc. Note: I also didn’t need therapy – with Zoloft I feel as though I’m my own therapist. Also, have some fun with grapefruit juice + zoloft interaction (do a search in google). — Regards, .

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Did u experience complete remission after the treatment or did symptoms return?  Since dysthymia is chronic, I worry that I will have to take medications for life.

Well, I think of dysthymia as more of a personality description then a chronic illness with symptoms that can go into complete remission.  So I guess I’m not generally a "happy happy joy joy" type of person.  I’m doing just fine now, but there have been times, and I am sure will be times, when I spiral down.  Over a period of 2 years we lost my father, brother, and fatherinlaw – and had our two sons.  A few years after that, it finally got to me.  But I did a couple of years of medication and therapy, and quit both about a couple of years ago.   I was VERY reluctant to try medications.  I’m a pharmacologist (basic research) – and a little knowledge can be a bad thing!!  :-)   Anyway, I’ve never really understood the "I don’t want to take medications for the rest of my life" attitude.  Lot’s of people worry about that.  But that was the least of my worries when I went on them.  I mean if they don’t work, that’s one thing.  If they have bad side effects, that’s another thing.  But if they work, and the side effects aren’t too bad, then you’ll probably find them well worth it. Sincerely Stewart —

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Did u experience complete remission after the treatment or did symptoms return?  Since dysthymia is chronic, I worry that I will have to take medications for life.

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Hi, I was diagnosed by a therapist yesterday as having dysthymia.  She told me that it was a depression with no ups or downs and also having lasted a very long time (mine has).  I am supposed to go to the doctor Thursday to get medication.  I would like to know if anybody here is dysthymic and if they could share their experiences with this illness?  Thanks.

Yeah, I was diagnosed with dysthymia.  Maybe I was diagnosed with what some call "double depression".  That is, an underlying dysthymia with "regular" depression on top of it. A year or two of zoloft and therapy was helpful.  As was ASD. Sincerely Stewart —

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Hi, I was diagnosed by a therapist yesterday as having dysthymia.

Your therapist is competent to make diagnoses? Clever therapist. Bri — Om mani p