Question:

hi,      i’m Nob (it’s a male name in japan), a grad student from japan.  i just got a response from this company and i might be able to do unpaid internship this summer.  but my concern is my stress problem.  i’ve been depressed since ‘93 and been on various kinds of medications.  i almost did ect last december.  wellbutrin finally responded and i’m somewhat functional now.  i was able to finish just one graduate course last semester.  i still have constant headache, memory problem and etc.  i can’t feel well and it’s very blunt and flat.  i get stressed out if i work too much.  i sometimes can’t concentrate, read, or programming at all, so i need to cool down my brain for a while, usually 2 or 3 days. i’ve asked around if i should take this opportunity or not to lots of people, my psychiatrist, psychologist, and even my prof.  this position requires programming in c and could be very stressful.  my psychiatrist suggested me to meet them to find out about more and make sure it’s not too stressful.  so i emailed them to arrange meeting next week.     i’m still very afraid of failing or getting stressed out.  but it’s good opportunity too.  i might be able to stay in this country through the job, assuming a complete recovery.  i’m afraid of getting ditched on the street in japan without american medication.     i’ve been hospitalized twice at the psych unit at the community hospital and was sucidal numbers of time.  but i’ve never cut myself.  i’m on zoloft, wellbutrin, valproic acid, buspar, clonazepam, and serzone (we started this med. recently) now.  my next step would be mao inhibiters.     i just need some support from people.  i don’t have any friend around me anymore.  people graduated while i’ve been struggling with my depression problem and i isolated myself by telling my problem to friends.  i get panicky sometime and try to reach out to people.  but it just turned away my friends.  i wish i had somebody i can talk to.  i’ll be 32 this december and my future is still in the mist.     could anyone respond to my posting?  i’d appreciate any comments or suggestions. best,     -n  

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hi,      i’m Nob (it’s a male name in japan), a grad student from japan.  i just got a response from this company and i might be able to do unpaid internship this summer.  but my concern is my stress problem.  i’ve been depressed since ‘93 and been on various kinds of medications.  i almost did ect last december.  wellbutrin finally responded and i’m somewhat functional now.  i was able to finish just one graduate course last semester.  i still have constant headache, memory problem and etc.  i can’t feel well and it’s very blunt and flat.  i get stressed out if i work too much.  i sometimes can’t concentrate, read, or programming at all, so i need to cool down my brain for a while, usually 2 or 3 days. i’ve asked around if i should take this opportunity or not to lots of people, my psychiatrist, psychologist, and even my prof.  this position requires programming in c and could be very stressful.  my psychiatrist suggested me to meet them to find out about more and make sure it’s not too stressful.  so i emailed them to arrange meeting next week.     i’m still very afraid of failing or getting stressed out.  but it’s good opportunity too.  i might be able to stay in this country through the job, assuming a complete recovery.  i’m afraid of getting ditched on the street in japan without american medication.     i’ve been hospitalized twice at the psych unit at the community hospital and was sucidal numbers of time.  but i’ve never cut myself.  i’m on zoloft, wellbutrin, valproic acid, buspar, clonazepam, and serzone (we started this med. recently) now.  my next step would be mao inhibiters.     i just need some support from people.  i don’t have any friend around me anymore.  people graduated while i’ve been struggling with my depression problem and i isolated myself by telling my problem to friends.  i get panicky sometime and try to reach out to people.  but it just turned away my friends.  i wish i had somebody i can talk to.  i’ll be 32 this december and my future is still in the mist.     could anyone respond to my posting?  i’d appreciate any comments or suggestions. best,     -n  

hi nob….. i don’t really have any comments or suggestions, just to say you’re not alone! welcome to asd! keep reading & posting (((((((((nob))))))))))))) those are cyber-hugs — Spider `((/      Original "Spider" by Eric ,/((

Response:

[posted and emailed pathetically late]    could anyone respond to my posting?  i’d appreciate any comments or suggestions.

i dont know – what i do for stress at the workplace is something i call the "tea ritual" (no real relation to the part of Japanese history) – where i select  (mix & match) herbal teas from my "stash" in my bag, and get the water, mix it for 5 minutes, add a packet of korean ginseng tea, add the honey, and enjoy – it’s a ritual that cannot be cut corners on, and requires my attention to detail, and almost always relaxes my because i have to think about it instead of the outside world. when i was a teenager, i used to make a point of taking in sunrises at least 1x a week….. HTH Thomas A. Ott http://www.geocities.com/heartland/5294 "All Things Are Possible Except Skiing Through A Revolving Door…" [remove "nospam." from my email address to respond...]

Response:

<Snipped for bandwidth    i just need some support from people.  i don’t have any friend around me anymore.  people graduated while i’ve been struggling with my depression problem and i isolated myself by telling my problem to friends. i get panicky sometime and try to reach out to people.  but it just turned away my friends.  i wish i had somebody i can talk to.  i’ll be 32 this december and my future is still in the mist.    could anyone respond to my posting?  i’d appreciate any comments or suggestions.

Dear N., Welcome to asd. Given your circumstances, I am glad you found this newsgroup. I don’t really have any specific advice for you about your job opportunity, except to say that I think your psychiatrist may correct. It might be a good idea to check out the work environment and job responsibilities to assess whether this opportunity might entail more stress than you can handle. In my humble opinion, no job is worth making yourself sicker over. I hope you are able to stay in the U.S. if that is what you want. I do not know whether the international pharmeceutical companies have medications equivalent to what you are taking here in Japan. Perhaps you could call the manufacturers and find out. Your pharmisist should be able to provide you with the phone numbers. I am so sorry you are having such a difficult time with your illness. I know how tough it can be, especially when friends turn away from you because they don’t understand what it is like to be clinically depressed. Please keep posting here. The people on asd are very knowledgeable and kind. Stay Safe, Isha Some are sad. And some are glad. And some are very, very, bad. Why are they sad, glad, and bad? I do not know. Go ask your Dad.          -Dr. Seuss

Response:

Question:

However you choose to see it is fine by me but do I sound serious to you? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The world needs more paranoid fascists like you. Are you serious or are you remarking on my lack of sanity in which case I pride myself on being stark raving nuts.  :) Today’s society medicating tomorrow’s genius MItchell Watters, CONTRIBUTING COLUMNIST Zoloft. Wellbutrin. Ritalin. Prozac. These names seem almost foreign to the ear, but they’ve become part of our daily lexicon of the 21st century. Drugs to help us fight depression, ease the effects of mental illness, and help our children behave in class. Why not tranqualizers to help them sleep through class I mean educators don’t want our kids to really think or school wouldn’t be so mind numbingly dull.  Just knock them out for 7 hours and send them home school is a waste of concentration anyway.  So why waste ritalin when you can use something to sedate the kids instead.  They won’t miss much The educators won’t even notice the switch in fact they’ll think the indoctrination is actually doing some good and pat themselves on the back. All they really need is to be able to walk and memorize things they don’t need to truely be awake for most of their education.  You only need motor control, memory, arithmetic and minor linguistic.  Other than that you have to restrain your creativity and basically avoid saying anything that sounds the least bit origional and you won’t get into trouble. The incidence of mental illness (or at least incidence of diagnosis) has been increasing at an unbelievable rate for the past 30 years, and the increase in prescription of drugs designed to fight it has kept pace. A quick, informal survey of my dorm mates reveals that about one in five has been prescribed drugs for mental illness at some point in their lives. This despite the fact that these people who have been treated for mental illness are by regulation barred from serving in the armed forces.  So the next time the draft comes up bring up that time you were on prozac or had other emotional problems and that will disqualify you, it’s like going to canada.  You don’t want to get shot convince a therapist that you are nuts and flush your meds down the loo.  So the next time there is a war they’ll have to change a few regs or they will be hard put to find enough people to fight.  Since our troop strength looks good then may I suggest the people in your dorm are crazier than the normal population.  So you might consider moving if you don’t like crazy people or picking a different set of news groups. In a way, this sounds promising; millions of people are receiving treatment who might never have been diagnosed before the mental health boom of the last part of the 20th century. If things keep going this way, it seems that we are headed towards a happier, healthier population, a nation deriving greater contentment and satisfaction from life. But we may be killing that future before we ever realize it. Well that’s one way to solve humanity’s problems just keep doing what we are finish off the future and presto no more problems no more starvation, cruelty, evil or fear just do away with the entire human race.  Hell why not save ourselves some trouble and hit the button already. We as a species face tougher problems today then at any time through the breadth of our collective history. Our population is massive and growing, and our free land and remaining natural resource reserves are shrinking. We have an ongoing fuel and energy crisis, an intractable pollution problem, a nuclear threat that has survived the end of the cold war, and the specter of unprecedented climate change looming on the horizon. All this is layered on a backdrop of the same old problems that have always plagued humanity: poverty, war, hunger, oppression and exploitation. You think our problems are tougher.  You reveal your ignorance.  We are not faced with a dictator trying to take over the world.  We have had energy crisises before we need to calm down get together and think of a solution to each problem one the energy crisis is there anything we can use other than fossil fuel.  How about animal leavings or methyl alcohol that would require the least number of changes?   The environment we have significantly reduced the emissions which probably isn’t enough.  Panicing doesn’t do us any good when we are done panicing then we are right back where we started keep your head man.  Our legislators are trying but they are stressing too.  So if they panic and we panic then none of these problems will get resolved so Quit freaking out and start thinking or we are all toast.  We are not faced with a plague that kills people and we do not understand how it does it we are on the way to figuring out how to solve the mysteries be patient mon.  You are either part of the solution or part of the problem.  If you spread panic then you are part of the problem but if you encourage people to remain calm and work the problem then you are part of the solution. Our president is a good man but he needs our help.  I’m not a republican neither am I a democrat but I’m behind President Bush 100% because the country needs him and the country isn’t looking so good but we have been through difficult times before with Rosevelt and have you forgotten america earned its nation hood on the field of battle does this mean nothing to you I can’t guarettee you easy victory but if we work hard and don’t lose our heads then one day we will find our way through to the dawn I swear to you on my honor as a human being. Homo sapiens are in trouble; we are on a cliff edge of potential disaster not imagined since the Old Testament. Hey disasters happen all the time.  "Life ain’t fair" now grow up normie. Life is one disaster after another yet if we keep putting one foot in front of another it works out better than sitting on your ass and feeling sorry for yourselves.  Improve you lot don’t become an excuse if you got a problem you can’t deal with on your own then you ask for help from a friend if there is a battle you can’t win get help from someone instead of going down in flames. Humanity is in sore need of leaders. Not political demagogues, but real leaders: writers, poets, architects, scientists, speakers, and, yes, politicians, with a surpassing intelligence, character and drive, but most importantly a unique perspective. We need people with the ability, not to think through complex problems, but around them. I know we do but the leaders cannot do it on their own they need help. If I’m to help humanity I need people with courage to sit next to me and prevent me from being such a fool.  If I’m to lead everyone has to start being responsible for their own actions.  You have to pay the piper and that is my fee.  I can drag your stupid asses out of the mud but once I do then you have to want to continue on and be able to or I just wasted my time.  I have doubts whether the society is just going to crash no matter what we do.  I can confirm our society is dying and our government isn’t what it should be but I can’t do it alone.  I can’t stop the decline even though I know what’s wrong and what needs to be done no one wants to listen so I’ve stopped trying to fix it.  I’m just going to let it all go when it crashes maybe if I survived it and there are enough of us left then maybe that disaster will knock some sense into folks.  There’s no use praying for a renaissance or new life the western world is reaching its end.  It’s the end of the world as we know it so hang on tight and buckle up back there it’s going to get rough. People who see the world differently than most of us, and who may see solutions where the rest see only thorny briar. People whose overarching vision of the world affords them the ability to peer into our society as an outsider, to see the forest we, who dwell amongst the trees, cannot. And these are the people we are medicating their special perspective out of. The whole world is nuts mate haven’t you noticed.  Sit back relax because we ain’t going no where. It’s a clich

Question:

I for one am glad you re-posted all that!  It was like getting to know you again for the first time! I’m also glad you’re still here. I read just about all your posts.  I’m lousy about responding (all those good intentions are bound to send me straight to you know where) but I can really relate to you in a lot of ways. I feel close to you in plenty of ways.  I care about you, for definite sure! Hang in there, okay? bye for now your friend –bev b. (constant lurker) Ghost from the past 10/22/96… I got to wondering how many posts that I have posted here over the years, and by doing a couple of searches through deja-news I found a little over 3000 posts under different non-de-plumes. Anyway I found this intro post that I wrote almost two years ago and thought it might be interesting for some people that do not know me, and for some people that do know me, to read what I wrote at the time with some additional comments that I will throw in tonight.

[really good stuff cut 'cos my server won't let me include it without equal amount of new words from me, which I can't do right now!] [1996] I am worried how I am going to come across among all of the special individuals that have been posting here. I have never real found a place among people where I felt that I fit in. [1998] I am still desperate to fit in, to feel liked and a part of the community. I guess this is where I would like to insert a desperate plea to hear from people that care about me. People that read and identify with what I write. Of course if I am a horse’s arse, I’d like to know that too.

"That I am totally devoid of sympathy for, or interest in, the world…is directly attributable to the fact that my two greatest needs and desires–smoking cigarettes and plotting revenge–are basically solitary pursuits."  –Fran Lebowitz

Response:

Ghost from the past 10/22/96… I got to wondering how many posts that I have posted here over the years, and by doing a couple of searches through deja-news I found a little over 3000 posts under different non-de-plumes. Anyway I found this intro post that I wrote almost two years ago and thought it might be interesting for some people that do not know me, and for some people that do know me, to read what I wrote at the time with some additional comments that I will throw in tonight. [1996] I’ve been doing some posting, but it has only just now occurred to me that perhaps it would be good form to introduce myself.

Joe, I remember reading this.  I didn’t post much in those days, just lurked a lot, and I remember reading this and finding it very thought-provoking. I didn’t post a welcome at the time, so here’s a retroactive, Welcome to the Group. Geni

Response:

COJ i notice you, i admire you, i care about you. i am overwhelmed by your eloquence, your gentleness, your thoughtfulness. i am helped immensely by your words to others, and those relating to your own struggles and pain. i never fail to read what you write. you are an inspiration. rena – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – } Ghost from the past 10/22/96… } } I got to wondering how many posts that I have posted here over the years, and by } doing a couple of searches through deja-news I found a little over 3000 posts } under different non-de-plumes. Anyway I found this intro post that I wrote } almost two years ago and thought it might be interesting for some people that do } not know me, and for some people that do know me, to read what I wrote at the } time with some additional comments that I will throw in tonight. } } [1996] } I’ve been doing some posting, but it has only just now occurred to me } that perhaps it would be good form to introduce myself. I’ve only been } around for about two weeks, but I have years of depression behind be } that I am just now starting do deal with. So please pardon me if I } occasionally put my foot in my cyber mouth. These are hard times for me } and having just found my voice, and perhaps a good place to express it, } I will probably be doing some ranting, raving, and generally screaming } into cyberspace. A good place for it I hope, where I will not bother the } neighbors or disturb our three cats. (although last night they did not } return the favor, about 3 am they decided to roughhouse?, on me) }  Some background perhaps, I am turning 30 next month. I have been } married for 8 years and we don’t have kids, although we are trying. Our } current cats are all foundlings or cats rescued from shelters. There } nicknames are Fuzzball (15 lb.. of tummy), HellKitty (7 lb.., rescued as } kitten from the parking lot, if she doesn’t want to be petted she goes } tries to inflict soft tissue injuries (prefers eyes), Gatsby (7 lb.., } doesn’t understand people at all, goal in life, to look out windows, and } to have me pick him up to get that bug off the ceiling. }  Gee, it looks like you got a little about me, and a lot about my cats. }  I have been depressed since I was a teenager and the depression has } cast a dark cloud over everything I have done and relationship I have } had since then. It made school almost unbearable and marriage very rough } at times to say the least. The way I was raised it would be unthinkable } for me to have a mental problem like depression. So for years I denied } that I did, even though from time to time people would suggest that I } seek help. I have gone through periods where unknown to anyone I was } highly suicidal, however I never made an actual attempt. (a few } experimental cuts on the arms with a razor to see what it would feel } like, but nothing serious) } } [1998] } Odd how much trouble I was having accepting the fact that I had a mental problem } and needed help from the outside. I thought I was John Wayne, the original tough } guy. I did not want to change my view on that, but the fact is I was busy at } falling apart. } } } [1996] }  About January of this year some of the suicidal thoughts began to rear } their dark head again. I also made a fairly steady decline in my overall } health to the point where I finally went to a GP for a physical, the } first doctor I had been near in seven years. He prescribed 20 mg of } Paxil, that seemed to make a little difference so a month later we moved } it to 40 mg per day. }  Well the meds have made a noticeable difference in my life. It has } lifted the deep despair I had fallen into and the suicidal thoughts that } had begun to reappear are on the retreat. But suddenly I have feelings } again and my brain is a bit overloaded. The Paxil also seems to zone me } out just a little, a feeling I don’t care for at all. } } [1998] } I quickly dropped the GP that was not terribly sympathetic and went to a } psychiatrist that was a friend of my wife’s family. Dr. Mike Gladson, a good } man. He has since moved out of state and I am not a patient of his anymore. } Anyway, we tried Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Trazadone, and finally Effexor as my } primary anti-depressant. If I force my mind to remember exactly what I was } feeling like in October of 1996, I can realize exactly how much difference } medication has made in my life. } } [1996] } All in all I am feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all and would like a } place to share what is "really" going on in my life and to give and } receive support and correspondence. } GOOD THINGS } I actually committed a random act of kindness the other day. A foreign } lady in Kroger was trying to buy a package of Pampers. The clerk was } being short with her trying to explain that she had to have one more } dollar or no Pampers (children"s diapers). I was standing there watching } all this, but as usual, it all seemed very distant. Or it did until I } saw my hand reach down into my pocket, pull out a dollar and hand it to } the clerk. I don’t know who was more surprised, the clerk, the lady, or } myself. It has been a long time since I would do something like that, } spontaneous and public. I was rewarded with a wonderful smile from the } lady that echoed through the rest of my day. } } [1998] } And something’s still need a little work. I was worried about my lack of } spontaneity more than two years ago, but I have posted my continued worries } about it as recently as, well, today. } } [1996] } BAD THINGS } It very hard to get things done at work and it is starting to effect my job. } My apartment is a wreck, I feel overwhelmed and can not make myself } clean it. The apartment gets more of a wreck. I feel even more } } [1998] } I could write a novel and someday might about the promotion, the collapse of the } job, the business being sold, the new owners, changing jobs again, living in the } job from hell, finally quitting, moving, etc. It is a little scary to watch } myself sitting there back in 1996 just before the shit was about to hit the fan } and totally unaware of how bad things were going to be. } } [1996] } I am worried how I am going to come across among all of the special } individuals that have been posting here. I have never real found a place } among people where I felt that I fit in. } } [1998] } I am still desperate to fit in, to feel liked and a part of the community. I } guess this is where I would like to insert a desperate plea to hear from people } that care about me. People that read and identify with what I write. Of course } if I am a horse’s arse, I’d like to know that too. } } [1996 & 1998]

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing thiers, and blaming it on you… you probably just don’t have a really good grasp of the situation.

Response:

Ghost from the past 10/22/96…

my 25th birthday.  a good one, i think. [1998] I am still desperate to fit in, to feel liked and a part of the community. I guess this is where I would like to insert a desperate plea to hear from people that care about me. People that read and identify with what I write. Of course if I am a horse’s arse, I’d like to know that too.

well, COJ, i remember when you started being here and i was drawn to your posts from the start.  you are sensible, sensitive, caring, and you express yourself with a special eloquence.  i identify with much of what you say.   i remember, in particular, a post you wrote last summer after i posted about pride day here in toronto.  the thread had devolved into a bit of a flame war and you wrote something really succinct that summarised points i agreed with very strongly.  from that point on, i *knew* you were on my cool list and you still are. sara — It’s pretty much a hard and fast rule that those of us who saw high school as a traumatic and scarring experience do not mix well with those who sleep with their yearbooks under their pillows. – Claire Mysko

Response:

Ghost from the past 10/22/96… I got to wondering how many posts that I have posted here over the years, and by doing a couple of searches through deja-news I found a little over 3000 posts under different non-de-plumes. Anyway I found this intro post that I wrote almost two years ago and thought it might be interesting for some people that do not know me, and for some people that do know me, to read what I wrote at the time with some additional comments that I will throw in tonight. [1996] I’ve been doing some posting, but it has only just now occurred to me that perhaps it would be good form to introduce myself. I’ve only been around for about two weeks, but I have years of depression behind be that I am just now starting do deal with. So please pardon me if I occasionally put my foot in my cyber mouth. These are hard times for me and having just found my voice, and perhaps a good place to express it, I will probably be doing some ranting, raving, and generally screaming into cyberspace. A good place for it I hope, where I will not bother the neighbors or disturb our three cats. (although last night they did not return the favor, about 3 am they decided to roughhouse

Question:

 <<As far as ECT goes, most docs will offer it at the tip of a hate. I’d  advise caution — it fucked my memory royally.  Hmm, the more I compare your abbreviation (don’t know what it means)  and what I mentionned, the more I fear we might be talking about the  same thing, in which case that horrid practice is still done  somewhere contrary to what I was told??

ECT — electro-convulsive therapy — is still widely advocated and used by psychiatrists in the US. Believe it. If it were a new treatment, there are no studies which would allow it to meet the FDA guidelines. Stuck

Response:

From multiple articles (by: daz, Stuck) in this thread, combined followup by me: Lines 25             Re: Well, that was complete hell!      Respno   1 of   5 <<I was told that there may be a partial memory loss but that it was short term and would return. LIE<LIELIE—It’s been three years and I lost about a years worth of memories not to mention some sanity That’s terrible. As far as I’m concerned, you were abused. That should never have happened. Nobody should be allowed to do that. My father suffered the same thing from electroconvulsive shock ‘therapy’. He was no longer my father who had raised me from a child. He was now some stranger who looked like my father but didn’t remember stuff. Fortunately that was outlawed or somesuch, or so I heard. Lines 50             Re: Well, that was complete hell!      Respno   4 of   5 <<Mental illness as entertainment. Hmmm….. you might be on to something there. Not exactly mental illness, but when I’m in an altered mental state from intense love or other similar emotion, those little random blobs that you see when you close your eyes can get quite vivid and they’re fun to watch. <<As far as ECT goes, most docs will offer it at the tip of a hate. I’d advise caution — it fucked my memory royally. Hmm, the more I compare your abbreviation (don’t know what it means) and what I mentionned, the more I fear we might be talking about the same thing, in which case that horrid practice is still done somewhere contrary to what I was told??

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{{{{{{squid}}}}}} sorry you are having such a rough time of it.. but it is *wonderful* that you went to doctor and are going to try new meds… purrs from, kitty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Who needs mind altering recreational drugs when you can just be bipolar.And it costs alot less to alienate people. The gambit of emotions that I just went through is alot better than thursday night tv, thats for sure. Thanks to those *consistent* people who helped, even got a phone call but I was sitting in my chair curled up ignoring the world, had I known who it was, I would have answered. Thanks Pete. I got up and shaved this morning, made myself look pretty and went to make an appointment at the doctor to discuss… whatever. Apparently I have to try every available drug for 3 documented months before I am a candidate for ECT. Most of the drugs I’ve tried (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and finally, Effexor) make me sick after 3 weeks or so. Apparently thats not common and might be psychosematic (sp?). But, I’ll march right on.

Response:

 Who needs mind altering recreational drugs when you can just be bipolar.And  it costs alot less to alienate people. The gambit of emotions that I just  went through is alot better than thursday night tv, thats for sure.

Mental illness as entertainment. Hmmm….. you might be on to something there.  Thanks to those *consistent* people who helped, even got a phone call but I  was sitting in my chair curled up ignoring the world, had I known who it  was, I would have answered. Thanks Pete. I got up and shaved this morning,  made myself look pretty and went to make an appointment at the doctor to  discuss… whatever.

I shave and trim my beard once a week. I have to do it in the evening, because if I did it in the morning I would never get out of bed. Except I don’t feel any prettier afterwards. Another low-maintenance grooming tip: You can wear pants and shirts up to four consecutive days before other people complain. (It helps to avoid other people.)  Apparently I have to try every available drug for 3  documented months before I am a candidate for ECT. Most of the drugs I’ve  tried (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and finally, Effexor) make me sick  after 3 weeks or so. Apparently thats not common and might be psychosematic  (sp?). But, I’ll march right on.

BS. Some doctors insist you stay on the drugs for a certain time period, regardless of side effects. Those doctors are assholes. There are docs who will work with you on the side effects, and realize you can’t take pills that make it even more difficult to function. As far as ECT goes, most docs will offer it at the tip of a hate. I’d advise caution — it fucked my memory royally. March on, march on. Stuck down

Response:

Who needs mind altering recreational drugs when you can just be bipolar.And it costs alot less to alienate people. The gambit of emotions that I just went through is alot better than thursday night tv, thats for sure. Thanks to those *consistent* people who helped, even got a phone call but I was sitting in my chair curled up ignoring the world, had I known who it was, I would have answered. Thanks Pete. I got up and shaved this morning, made myself look pretty and went to make an appointment at the doctor to discuss… whatever. Apparently I have to try every available drug for 3 documented months before I am a candidate for ECT. Most of the drugs I’ve tried (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and finally, Effexor) make me sick after 3 weeks or so. Apparently thats not common and might be psychosematic (sp?). But, I’ll march right on.

Please do research on ECT before you sign up. I was told that there may be a partial memory loss but that it was short term and would return. LIE<LIELIE—It’s been three years and I lost about a years worth of memories not to mention some sanity- be careful daz

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Who needs mind altering recreational drugs when you can just be bipolar.And it costs alot less to alienate people. The gambit of emotions that I just went through is alot better than thursday night tv, thats for sure.  Thanks to those *consistent* people who helped, even got a phone call but I was sitting in my chair curled up ignoring the world, had I known who it was, I would have answered. Thanks Pete. I got up and shaved this morning, made myself look pretty and went to make an appointment at the doctor to discuss… whatever. Apparently I have to try every available drug for 3 documented months before I am a candidate for ECT. Most of the drugs I’ve tried (Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Wellbutrin and finally, Effexor) make me sick after 3 weeks or so. Apparently thats not common and might be psychosematic (sp?). But, I’ll march right on.

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Question:

Any good experiences with this SSRI?  

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I am currently taking 60mg/day of Paxil…has been a lifesaver with my mood swings, helps depression alot, but I think it’s time to increase my dosage again, cuz I am starting to go back down again.  In all honesty, this is the best anti-depressant I have been on yet…that is out of the ones I have used…Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Trazadone and Elavil. Angie

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Yep, I take 30 mgs of Paxil a day and it has really helped my moods, OCD, depression, and even my anxiety/panic attacks. Good luck, Ashley Hi What are the common side effects of Paxil?  Also, how expensive is it?  (how much for a month supply of 30 mg, for example?) Thanks! aquarius My husband’s psychiatrist has given him coupons and the prescription. All he

does is go to the pharmacy with both and they do not cost him a cent. The money goes to the psychiatrist

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What about the sexual side effects common to the other ssri meds such as low libido and difficulty  reaching an orgasm?

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Hi Aquarius,      For me, paxil helps me sleep, so I take it right before I go to bed. Other than that, there are no negative side effects.  It costs about 70 dollars for a month supply of 30 mg, but my insurance covers most of it. I hope this helps- Ashley "This is the strangest life I’ve ever known." – Jim Morrison

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mimimoda asked: What are the common side effects of Paxil?

I found out the hard way that if I don’t take it with food in the morning (which is when I take it) I will suffer from a horrible stomach ache (feels like gas, but isn’t) for the rest of the day.  So, I am now supposed to take it with food, which is hard since I’m restricting so much.  That’s the only side effect I’ve had with it, but this side effect is supposidly rare. Take care. Karen

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Yep, I take 30 mgs of Paxil a day and it has really helped my moods, OCD, depression, and even my anxiety/panic attacks.   Good luck, Ashley

Hi What are the common side effects of Paxil?  Also, how expensive is it?  (how much for a month supply of 30 mg, for example?) Thanks! aquarius

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I have just been put on Paxil, so I can’t tell you how it’s effected me so far.  I took it for the first time today, so I’m glad you asked this question. Hopefully it will help with my anxiety disorder as well as my strange ragged snowballing thoughts (the trilifon is supposed to help, but I don’t think it has and I’ve been on it for 1 year).  I’m also on Buspar for the anxiety and I think it is definitely helping, but hasn’t come close to "fixing" the problem. I hope someone has some insite to Paxil, I’m definitely interested.   Feeling like a medicine cabinet, Karen

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Yep, I take 30 mgs of Paxil a day and it has really helped my moods, OCD, depression, and even my anxiety/panic attacks.   Good luck, Ashley

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Hi, Kate– I have been on most of the antidepressants that are commonly presecribed. The first thing you need to know is that you must be monitored by a psychiatrist–not a regular MD. Prozac worked wonders for me and I took it for nine years. It began to be less effective in the last year or two, and I switched to medication for manic-depression. But now I’m back on Prozac and having the same great experience I had when I first began to take it. Paxil was prescribed for me after a visit to the emotional care facility. I think the doctor on call, who didn’t know me from Adam (or Eve, for that matter), was biased toward Paxil, so he put me on it. Within a week, I was sweating like a waterfall and felt like there were hamsters trying to claw their way out of my chest cavity. I went to my regular psychiatrist and he said I was suffering from akasthysia, a common side-effect people suffer from taking the wrong antidepressant for their symptoms. I went off, went back on Prozac, and again, everything was fine. I have friends who take Paxil and swear by it. My unprofessional research indicates that it seems to work best for men. I don’t know if that’s so, but that’s what I’ve seen. I also have a friend who absolutely changed her life simply by starting on Zoloft. I’m telling ya, it’s night and day. I would never have expected her EVER to be happy or calm, but she is both, and she’s been on Z for two years now. What I’m saying is that all antidepressants are not alike, and especially, antidepressants have peculiarly idiosyncratic effects on each person’s biology. Some of the horror stories that abounded when Prozac first became visible in the late 1980s were the result of that patient NOT being monitored carefully during the crucial uptake period. If a patient suffers ANY symptoms of extreme anxiety, restlessness, panic, sweating, etc., he/she should immediately cease taking that drug. This is why I feel it’s important to underscore the fact that you must be monitored by a psychiatrist. Doctors who don’t specialize in antidepressants and mood disorder drugs tend not to read all the literature about them, and may not be able to manage the dosage and the patient as well. It’s an entirely specific discipline that a psychiatrists studies and knows. For the record, I did lose 13 lbs the first month I was on Prozac. I was suddenly, for the first time in my life, aware of the beauty of the world and free of the obsessive sadness and fear of my previous life. Weight loss on Prozac is a gift, but it’s not by any means a cure-all, nor is it necessarily permanent. Prozac is a tool, and how well it works for you depends on how well you’re able to use it. I just started taking Prozac again, as I said, after a six-month break. My eating obsession is lessened, but it’s still there, because I still have a certain amount of anxiety. The depression is much less serious. But it’s the anxiety that really eggs me on to eat. If you’re thinking about antidepressants, do a lot of research. Especially study the side-effects. Then see a psychiatrist, and do a thorough, honest intake. Making this move could be the best thing that ever happened to you. Or it could be so anticlimactic that you become more depressed or anxious. They still haven’t figured out how to sell happiness in a bottle, and they never will. love to all diane * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Right now, after 2-3 yrs on it, I might have to change meds because it doesn’t seem to be working (very depressed despite recent increase)

For me paxil was great for the first 6-9 monthes and now it no longer works.   -Scullie

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Hi Kate; my name is Stacey; I am friends with Amy and she just showed me this site. Anyhow, you had asked if anyone had tried Paxil???  I just got out of in-patient treatment  in December and have been on Paxil since I was admitted in October of last year.  So that makes about…seven months on it.  It is okay for things like obsessiveness; but I struggle a lot with anxiety, too.  It only makes me freak out more and my therapist says it is time for a change.  Also, when I miss a dose, I start to get really dizzy and nauseated.  I reccommend Paxil for depression; but not anxiety.  However; that is only MY opinion- You should talk to a psychiatrist…just a suggestion!!!  Good Luck!

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Hiya, Kate, I tried Paxil when I was at a very low weight, and from what I’ve heard since then, the doc (who was an ignorant SOB) started me on way too high a dosage.  That said, I didn’t particularly care for Paxil which seemed to make me nervous.  I wasn’t bulimic at the time, either, so I wasn’t much help just then, was I?  Oh, well. That’s just my two cents.  Remember, even if others have good or bad effects your body is different so the only way you’ll know is to give it a try.  Good luck! Oh, yeah, I did get sick of the anxiety Paxil seemed to cause for me and, doing it "Butterflies style," I quit the medication cold turkey.  NOT fun.  :-0 Love, Butterflies

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Was mainly a positive experience for me. It’s hard to pinpoint specifics, and whether they were related to changes in my life or to the medication. Right now, after 2-3 yrs on it, I might have to change meds because it doesn’t seem to be working (very depressed despite recent increase). But medication like this is very person-specific. Sometimes, unfortunately, you have to try a few antidepressants; other times the first one works. By the way, I didn’t have any side effects. All the best, Jen

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hey all! just wanted imput from anyone who has tried paxil. good things, bad things? would you recommend it for someone who has been suffering from buimia for 5ish years and depression even longer? any input would be greatly appreciated. love, kate "if i could have one wish, it would be for you to see yourself through me eyes"

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Cara Heather,      Hi….I’m glad you went to the doc.  Good going–wish I were so brave.   From what i understand Paxil is an anti-depressant.  I don’t think there are any bad side effects.  One of my clients is on Paxil and he doesn’t complain about any problems from it.   It is good that you question whether you should be on drugs of any sort.  Be sure to talk to your doctor about those concerns–tell him you would rather talk first before you plunge into the pill bottle.  Did you ask him why you were prescribed Paxil?  Also, just because he prescribes it doesn’t mean you HAVE to take it.  I’m not advocating any course of action, here….just some thoughts. Love and empowerment, Steff

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What is Paxil? I went to the doctors yesterday and he wanted to put me on Paxil. I said I wanted soem time first to deal with everything (I only jsut got help yesterday). I don’t even think I’m depressed – those tests would make anyone look depressed…I was very nervous yesterday and distraught – of course it wouyld LOOK like dpression. I’m normally a very cheery person. If I don’t agree that I’m depressed  - why should I take the stuff? Will it make me weird or anyting? I know nothing about the stuff. Cara Heather

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What is Paxil? I went to the doctors yesterday and he wanted to put me on Paxil. I said I wanted soem time first to deal with everything (I only jsut got help yesterday). I don’t even think I’m depressed – those tests would make anyone look depressed…I was very nervous yesterday and distraught – of course it wouyld LOOK like dpression. I’m normally a very cheery person. If I don’t agree that I’m depressed  - why should I take the stuff? Will it make me weird or anyting? I know nothing about the stuff. Cara Heather

Paxil is a cousin of Prozac.  It’s an antidepressant that’s supposed to have fewer side effects than Prozac.  If you don’t think you need it, tell the doctor that.  I was put on Paxil a few years ago, and it did nothing for me. Coming off it was hell; I had dizzy spells for a few days in a row. — Julie | …We are here because one odd group of fishes had a peculiar fin anatomy   | | that could transform into legs for terrestrial creatures; because comets    | | struck the earth and wiped out dinosaurs, thereby giving mammals a chance   | | not otherwise available (so thank your lucky stars in a literal sense);     | | because the earth never froze entirely during an ice age; because a small   | | and tenuous species arising in Africa a quarter of a million years ago, has | | managed, so far, to survive by hook and by crook… – Stephen Jay Gould     |

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What is Paxil? I went to the doctors yesterday and he wanted to put me on Paxil. I said I wanted soem time first to deal with everything (I only jsut got help yesterday). I don’t even think I’m depressed – those tests would make anyone look depressed…I was very nervous yesterday and distraught – of course it wouyld LOOK like dpression. I’m normally a very cheery person. If I don’t agree that I’m depressed  - why should I take the stuff? Will it make me weird or anyting? I know nothing about the stuff. Cara Heather

Paxil is an anit depressant. It works with the seretonin in your brain. Prozac, Zoloft and Serzone fit into the same family.   I don’t really know why shrinks give this family of anti depressants to eating disorder patients because one of the side effects is anorexia. Hmmm.  But if you do take it PLEASE be sure you are VERY carfully monitored by your doctor.  It messed with my eating habits that I was so carefully trying to correct!

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 What is Paxil? I went to the doctors yesterday and he wanted to put me on  Paxil. I said I wanted soem time first to deal with everything (I only jsut  got help yesterday). I don’t even think I’m depressed – those tests would  make anyone look depressed…I was very nervous yesterday and distraught – of  course it wouyld LOOK like dpression. I’m normally a very cheery person. If I  don’t agree that I’m depressed  - why should I take the stuff? Will it make  me weird or anyting? I know nothing about the stuff.  Cara Heather

Dear Cara, Iam on 10mg of Paxil per day, and have found it beneficial in my recovery. I asked to put on it because of circumstances in my life where making my moods swings terrible(divorce pending). I have had few side affects (thank goodness), and I can truely see the difference that it has made.  Antidepressants alone cannot CURE anyone! A strong support group in addition to therapy is most helpful. Before taking any antidepressant research it! The library is full of resources,as well as your MD. Just my two bits. Keep moving forward,and Best of luck! Lisa

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Question:

Are there any meds that have helped anyone with binge problems.  I know there is probably no real answer for the problem but some type of assistance would thrill me.

either Paxil or Prozac, but they dont work for everyone

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Are there any meds that have helped anyone with binge problems.  I know there is probably no real answer for the problem but some type of assistance would thrill me.

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Are there any meds that have helped anyone with binge problems.  I know there is probably no real answer for the problem but some type of assistance would thrill me. Hey, This is so weird I was just scouring the web looking for the same thing!!!! Hope people out there have some info to help us, Judy

Hi, Just a quick 2 cents’ worth from your UK medical correspondent The SSRI antidepressant Fluoxetine (Prozac) is licenced over here for treatment of binge-eating disorder and bulimia nervosa in doses of 60 mg daily. Clinical studies have shown that in many patients it reduced the incidence of binge-eating markedly when given for a period of three or four months. I am not aware of any longer-term studies of its use in BED or BN. None of the other antidepressants are licenced for this indication. Hope this helps, Julie A.

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I have tried many different meds for my bulimia and so far nothing has helped. Many doctors swear by Prozac, but I do not.  I was on 80mg a day…still no results.  I have also tried Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Trazadone and am now on Paxil, Amitryptiline and Risperdal…my depression is getting somewhat better, but still have urges to b/p.  I wanted something to help with the anxiety…which is what the Paxil and Amitryptiline are helping along with my depression.  The Risperdal is being used to help rid the terrible thoughts I have, such as, suicide, thinking I am fat, thinking I am ugly, not good enough, etc.  My doctor is now discussing Serzone with me, and I am very much interested in trying.  Just talk to your doctor and he/she will lead you in the right direction.  Good luck. Love, Angie

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Beth, I have the same problem. I was first put on Zoloft at 20 mg. and was upped to the maximum dosage of 200mg. Then it quit working and they switched me over to Effexor at 50 mg. and now I’m at 250 mg. It isn’t doing s*it for me. I have given up hope on drugs. Oh well. I think this is a very common problem. I wish you the best, Joanna

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So why would Prozac be the only one approved for bingeing? Company/money issue again?

i don’t think paxil’s been tested for binging. i’m not sure. And if they are anxiety, why am I still anxious and having feelings of cutting myself?

because, even though they told me prozac is antianxiety, it has as a side effect — guess what — anxiety. (i never quite understood that. but i figure that the people who developed it don’t, either.) and it’s possible that the antianxiety effect of paxil just doesn’t work for you. the thing with any brain drug is that they have no idea what to do. the oldest drugs — the tricyclics — were basically huge sledgehammers. they had loads of side-effects. these newer ones are a lot more delicate, but still, not well understood. so they work on *most* people, but not all, and not always the same way. Do you know why Paxil has bad withdrawal effects? (Worse than Prozac?)

paxil has a very short half-life, something on the range of 12 or 18 hours. so, about 15 hours after you’ve taken a pill, only half of what you took is still around in your body. in 2 days you’re down to about 12% . . . so you’re stopping cold turkey, in your blood & brain as well, if you just stop taking the pills. prozac has a very long half-life, so it tapers off gradually even while you’re not taking more pills. (i know  i explained that badly. if you’re not clear, ask again, or possibly julie can say it better than i did?)  What kind of effects, anyway?

hmm. i didn’t have any — paxil worked very oddly on me — but a friend of mine said it screwed with sleeping, eating, made her feel sick, nauseated, headachy — she said it was beyond nasty. gus — whisper to my soul its separation. my soul in the stained-glass window that lays its reds and greens on the stone floor. my soul, that would fly out from the high places, if i could climb it there. my soul, that watches in the night with me, when the chair i sit on is night, and the table i eat off is night, and the bed i sleep in is night after night. my soul, that raises a lantern to my face, when every other hope is gone. i hope. and the hope that is in my is from the soul is for the soul. not present, actual, superficial life, but the real solid world of images. i hope that the real solid world of images will prevail.                                        -jeanette winterson, "art & lies" — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Hiya I was put on prozac when I was 15. After my OD. I took it for a long time – 15 mths maybe before I held up my hands and said "look this isn’t working for me anymore." As I was having problems with cutting, and it was verging on an OCD, my doc put my on Paxil (Seroxat). It’s not been bad – it helped with the cutting and that. My problem tends to be that I’m OK on a drug for a while and then I became tolerant and it has to be upped or changed. Beth — "When you’re close to tears, remember,  Some day, it’ll all be over."             (Lighthouse Family)

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Julie, Can I ask you another q? What are the differences btwn Paxil (and the other SSRI’s) and Prozac? I was put on the former because of my family’s success with it. Otherwise the doc would have perscribed Prozac.

Hi Jen, It’s your crazy insomniac medical person here again, it’s 6 am over here and I’ve given up on the idea of sleeping… Paxil is a trade name for paroxetine, which is closely related to fluoxetine (Prozac) and works in a similar way (by retarding serotonin re-uptake in the brain). Antidepressants are strange things, really. Despite the close similarity, I know several people who are responsive to one but not the other. If close relatives of yours have done well on paroxetine, then that’s probably a good reason to try that first in preference to Prozac. The main difference (in general) between the two is that paroxetine is marginally sedating, while fluoxetine generally isn’t — but "your milage may vary" as they say. Paroxetine is therefore more suitable for treating panic disorders and depression with associated anxiety states than fluoxetine. Paroxetine is also more likely to produce an adverse reaction if withdrawn suddenly, and dose tapering is usually required at the end of treatment. The big problem with all CNS medications is that the human brain/CNS is awesomely complicated and delicate, and still surprisingly poorly understood. Understanding of the effects of different meds is largely empirical — it’s not really known just *why* paroxetine is more sedating that fluoxetine, it just is. Psychiatric medicine does have a certain "suck it and see" quality to it, IMO. Hope this helps, love from Julie.

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hi!    I take luvox for depression and ocd.  buspar for anxiety and deseryll (trazedone) for sleep shell

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Can I ask you another q? What are the differences btwn Paxil (and the other SSRI’s) and Prozac? I was put on the former because of my family’s success with it. Otherwise the doc would have perscribed Prozac.

basically: none. they’re both anti-anxiety, anti-obsessional, and mostly antidepressant. they work in marginally different ways, but (this is the trick with neurochem) no one really knows how they work. they have ideas, but there’s no way of knowing if one or the other or both or neither will work on any given person. if one works well for your family, it’s likely to work well for you. otherwise, they prescribe based on whatever they know better — or whichever company pays them for it more. (me? bitter about this? no.) one might work for you, or the other. if paxil works, stick with it (be warned — it has *bad* withdrawal). if not, try prozac. unless there are any major-severe side effects (while i was on paxil, i slept 20 hours a day. i was depressed enough that i didn’t mind it, but . . .), give them several weeks to build up enough in your body. anyways, in essence, they do the same thing, but through different (mostly unknown) pathways. brain biochem is really not well understood, so a lot of it’s just a wing & a prayer. gus — now it’s full night, clear, moonless and filled with stars, which are not as eternal as once thought, which are not where we think they are. if they were sounds, they would be echoes, of something that happened millions of years ago: a word made of numbers. echoes of light, shining out of the midst of nothing. it’s old light, and there’s not much of it. but it’s enough to see by.                                          -margaret atwood, "cat’s eye" — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

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Question:

Sorry, I have tried Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, and Paxil, and the only help I’ve had was from Paxil. Wellbitrin worked for awhile too, but not Prozac and Zoloft. Keep in mind that everyone’s body reacts differently. I hope you can get something to work. I feel 75% better with Paxil in my life! Good luck. -Heidi

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hey all. here is it is short: I’ve been on so many antidepressants.  i’m currently on zoloft 150mg. just upped to 150 this week.  i just dont feel like i’m getting out of it what i could…..i cant take lexapro (the new celexa) because it costs so much. has anyone had experience with effexor???  anything other than paxil, anyone? olivia

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i am currently on Effexor XR and i think it has TRULY helped me.  This coming from a former gung-ho anti-med girl.   i have been on zoloft, prozac, and paxil in the past, and i wasn’t comfortable with them.  Effexor really has helped so much with depression i think.

jess, is effexor a generic for something?  i’ve heard of it….it is an ssri though right?

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i am currently on Effexor XR and i think it has TRULY helped me.  This coming from a former gung-ho anti-med girl.   i have been on zoloft, prozac, and paxil in the past, and i wasn’t comfortable with them.  Effexor really has helped so much with depression i think.  

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prozac. Your family doctor can get it. I went from 235 to 215. Your fear is a sign of depression. Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I’ve posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically.  I cannot stand to be the size I am anymore.  I am 19 years old, and i weigh at least 250 pounds, probably more.  I’m so afraid to weigh myself to find out if i’ve reached 300.  I am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.  I’m just so unhappy with myself.  I can’t go to a store and buy clothes because the stores around here stop just short of the size I need..i need to order from a special place out West.  I can’t possibly wear the kinds of clothes I WANT to wear, which fits my personality…i’m stuck wearing simple sweatshirts and jeans that barely fit me…I am constantly teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I’m a fat pig.  Never mind the fact that he’s overweight himself (I inherited it from him, apparently).  I’ve tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I couldn’t make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for me, I have NO willpower…even the idea that if I lose weight then I will look better and feel better doesn’t do it for me! Nothing is a big enough incentive.  I don’t know what’s WRONG with me…my good friend of almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 pounds, and she’s starting to get guys looking at her and asking her out, etc.  I’m stuck being jealous.  I just don’t know what to do!  I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what’s left of my youth!  I haven’t even been swimming in 10 years ’cause I don’t want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I’m desperate for help. Thank you, Bonnie The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions…

Barry: PROZAC?  Who are you kidding?  A whole TWENTY pounds, huh?  Was it worth becoming dependent? Bonnie is feeling bad, but there are a lot of other things she can do that do not involve getting mixed up with drug dependence and pharmaceutical company shills. Bonnie: If you weigh between 250 and 300, twenty pounds obviously is not going to be the difference between dating or not, swimming or not, being accepted or not.  All that taking a drug like Prozac could do for you to lift depression stops when the drug-taking stops.  There are also side effects you would need to review very, very carefully.  What you need to look for are ways to make yourself happier long-term. Kay

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: I’ve tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I : couldn’t make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for : me, I have NO willpower…even the idea that if I lose weight then I : will look better and feel better doesn’t do it for me! Nothing is a big : enough incentive.  I don’t know what’s WRONG with me… : Bonnie : Hi Bonnie, :       I’m a compulsive Overeater and my name is Cliff. : Step #1 "We admitted we were powerless over food – that our lives : had become unmanageable" : You are an expert at the first step so I guess you really meant that you : had trouble with the next eleven steps? : Its people like you that make it possible for people like me! [:-D :       Thanks again,           Cliff W. Smith : I respect the right of those who knock on my door to convert : me as long as they respect my right to try convert them !!!

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<sorry about not 'quoting' the other messages this relates to - but: I am 23 years old. At 19, just like the other posters I was very heavy. I got married at 18 years old, 9 days out of high school. I was 230 pounds. I have a wonderful husband, and family - but I wasn't happy. I gained another 30 pounds before I was ready to anything about it. I have lost 130 pounds, it wasn't easy and it sure was quick, but its gone and I have a long road of maintenance ahead <looking for advise on THAT if anyone has any Good luck to everyone, but especially the teenagers and young adults who read this forum, they may need the most support of all. Bridget McCort Hopkins, MN

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The issue of time itself can be a killer of incentive.  It was not until I fully realized that the time was going to go by anyway, and that I may as well try to make the best of each day....

You had a lot of very interesting things to say in your reply to Bonnie, but the quote above is one that I had to tell you about. I thought it was well placed, and I'll have to post that line on the door of my fridge. Thanks. Time does indeed go by, regardless of what we do in it. Elliott

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Prozac. Your family doctor can get it. I went from 235 to 215. Your fear is a sign of depression. - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I've posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically.  I cannot stand to be the size I am anymore.  I am 19 years old, and i weigh at least 250 pounds, probably more.  I'm so afraid to weigh myself to find out if i've reached 300.  I am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.  I'm just so unhappy with myself.  I can't go to a store and buy clothes because the stores around here stop just short of the size I need..i need to order from a special place out West.  I can't possibly wear the kinds of clothes I WANT to wear, which fits my personality...i'm stuck wearing simple sweatshirts and jeans that barely fit me...I am constantly teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I'm a fat pig.  Never mind the fact that he's overweight himself (I inherited it from him, apparently).  I've tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I couldn't make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for me, I have NO willpower...even the idea that if I lose weight then I will look better and feel better doesn't do it for me! Nothing is a big enough incentive.  I don't know what's WRONG with me...my good friend of almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 pounds, and she's starting to get guys looking at her and asking her out, etc.  I'm stuck being jealous.  I just don't know what to do!  I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what's left of my youth!  I haven't even been swimming in 10 years 'cause I don't want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I'm desperate for help. Thank you, Bonnie

The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to the stupidity of your actions...

Response:

writes: Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I've posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically.  I cannot stand to be the size I am anymore.  I am 19 years old, and i weigh at least 250 pounds, probably more.  I'm so afraid to weigh myself to find out if i've reached 300.  I am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.

Whoa!  Yes, I do know what it is like to be really heavy at 19.  It stinks, but, believe it or not, it does not stink quite as badly as it used to...thanks in part to the type of information gathering done by this group. From what you say in your post, clothing is a big issue for you, so be sure to get the clothing FAQ (look on Dejanews if you have to.) I was married by 24 but NOT before I went through a lot of partly self-induced misery over guys. I was a senior before I figured things out. One big example is that I assumed for a long, long time one guy in the group I hung around with was "just a friend" when he was actually quite interested--just not very confident about how to go about changing our relationship into something more romantic. (Love songs on the juke box when just the two of us were eating at a diner was NOT enough of a hint for me at that stage!  I also took the "accidental" arm around the shoulder at the movies as a joke--which it wasn't.) I am constantly teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I'm a fat pig. Never mind the fact that he's overweight himself (I inherited it from him, apparently).  

Are you dependent on your father for college money?  If not, tell him to stuff it and don't speak to him again until you feel like it (maybe not til you graduate).  If you are dependent it makes things tougher, but not altogether impossible. Alternatively, maybe you could try just telling him that he should try to love both himself and you more than he does.  In the meantime try loving yourself more.  Start by trying not to beat yourself up so much. If you are still getting teased at college, it sounds like the students there are pretty immature and there's not all that much you can do about it...except perhaps orient yourself toward older students, and get involved in activities that include all levels. I don't know what's WRONG with me...my good friend of almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 pounds, and she's starting to get guys looking at her and asking her out, etc.  I'm stuck being jealous.  I just don't know what to do!  I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what's left of my youth!

You need to start enjoying your youth NOW, not after you've lost weight. That means finding things you actually LIKE to do and doing them.  Yes, it helps if some of those things are ones you can initiate on your own and involve meeting NEW people. I hope your friend isn't making comparisons, too.  That can only reinforce your own bad feelings. I would gather from what you write that your friends is till "overweight".  Maybe you should just stick around a flirt with some of the same guys.  I haven't even been swimming in 10 years 'cause I don't want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I'm desperate for help.

Now WHY have you not been swimming, exactly?  If you only weigh 250-300 there are suits out there you can find fairly easily and you can join the other overweight people putting in an appearance at the beach or at the poolside.  IGNORING the idiots may be necessary but at least you get to swim! In some areas there are special swim groups for people who are heavy (many of them much heavier than you are).  When my daughters were small I used to attend sessions with one such group at a large indoor pool  I could keep an eye on my kids and have a great time myself.   However, I got a start with them at a regular hotel pool when my husband had to spend a couple of two-week sessions in training programs out of town and we went with him. I bought a nice plain navy suit with a removable single strap and a neat long white cover-up and brought a magazine for defensive reading! (It turned out not to be necessary at either hotel.)  Fear of a confrontation or humiliation too often holds us back when neither are actually  in store. So, Bonnie, GO immediately and find the Clothing FAQ and get yourself a new suit.  Then all you need is the right pool or the right weather!   Kay

Response:

 Nothing seems to work for me, I have NO willpower...even the idea that if I lose weight then I will look better and feel better doesn't do it for me! Nothing is a big enough incentive.  

Dear Bonnie,      I know what you feel like, I've been there.  However, your unhappiness with your life and the prospects for your future need to be your incentive.  Eating has become your way to cope, to self-comfort.  However, you need not figure this out before you begin.  You can figure out what ailes you as you begin to embark on a new life.  While thinness itself will not make you happy, taking control of your life and actions can begin to build self-esteem and a sense of adventure as you begin to feel healthier in everyway.      At your age I was not your size, but I eventually got there.  It wasn't until I was forty that I began to feel the side effects of weight.  I knew that I was going to become a sick person, and old age began to frighten me.      Facing having to lose at least 150 lbs is not easy.  The issue of time itself can be a killer of incentive.  It was not until I fully realized that the time was going to go by anyway, and that I may as well try to make the best of each day, that I was able to begin a new lifestyle.  Dieting as a tool of denial will not work.  The only thing that works is to figure out what method or plan can help you to thrive through each day.  Some swear by a lowfat, high complex carb approach like myself.  Others insist that the only thing that works is the CAD (carbo addicts diet) system.  You'll hear about the Zone and Adkins.   Choose a plan that seems most logical for yourself, and JUST DO IT!!   Just make sure it's something you can live with and not suffer through.  Afterall, the idea is that you are feeding your body vitality and Health, and not continuing a method of self-torture that you have to one day "go off of".       Do not starve, do not exercise to exhaustion.  This will only lead to failure, and will eventually whittle away at your self-esteem.  At first, you may not even want to mention that you are "dieting" (it's just impossible to get away from that word), as people will give you encouragement of a sort, but alot of people have illogical ideas of what dieting is all about.  They will look for you to achieve miracles or to cheat, and you just don't need that.      Choose an exercise that you enjoy and can do, and do it for at least 20 minutes 4 times a week.  Increase as it becomes easier.  Do less if it's too hard.  Just, again, do it.  Stay away from the scales, especially if they scare you.  Find a pair of jeans that are too tight and gauage your progress with those.        Living a new lifesyle is not magical thinking.  Your body will thankyou for every bit of effort you put into making yourself healthier.  Trust me.  Two years ago, at 300 lbs, I was seriously concerned about myself.  Today, I am at least 120 lbs lighter and in better physical condition than I was when I was 23.  I can do aerobics for an hour and feel invigorated.  I can ride my bike for 20 miles and feel like I can go on.  No, I'm not thin yet, but today I went to a yard sale and held up a pair of pants,and the woman there said, "Those will be too big for you, here's a Medium if you can use these."  It's the little things like these that make me realize that my efforts are paying off.        And, of course, my husband is thrilled.  And even better than that, I feel wonderful and know that my future is Healthy.                                             Cathi

Response:

Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I've posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically....I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.  

soc.support.fat-acceptance is a group for people who accept themselves no matter what their weight is.  Your X-post to this group says you missed the point of this group.   You don't sound like you like yourself very much.  We can try to help with that. Self-acceptence is VERY hard, especially for a fat teenager. Been there/done that/got the T-shirt.  Getting away from the people you grew up with will help ENORMOUSLY.  It also sounds suspiciously like you have very little activity.  At least get out and walk.  As for swimming, if you like it, do it. The worst thing you can do, no matter what your weight, is to be a couch potato. In terms of this focus on boys, it's common.  Adolescent males have a real problem with fat women, but MEN, in general, aren't quite so narrow. I hardly dated in high school either.  In college, at a time when I gained more weight, I started doing better in that area because I decided I didn't care WHAT the "social dictates" were.  I just went and and had a good time, and found men who weren't looking for a waif. If you only care about dieting, please post only to alt.support.diet in the future.  But if you want support in truly accepting yourself, no matter what your weight is, you're welcome to come back. (Sorry if this is coming off like a lecture.  I suppose it is.) --

Response:

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I've posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically.  I cannot stand to be the size I am anymore.  I am 19 years old, and i weigh at least 250 pounds, probably more.  I'm so afraid to weigh myself to find out if i've reached 300.  I am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.  I'm just so unhappy with myself.  I can't go to a store and buy clothes because the stores around here stop just short of the size I need..i need to order from a special place out West.  I can't possibly wear the kinds of clothes I WANT to wear, which fits my personality...i'm stuck wearing simple sweatshirts and jeans that barely fit me...I am constantly teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I'm a fat pig.  Never mind the fact that he's overweight himself (I inherited it from him, apparently).  I've tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I couldn't make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for me, I have NO willpower...even the idea that if I lose weight then I will look better and feel better doesn't do it for me! Nothing is a big enough incentive.  I don't know what's WRONG with me...my good friend of almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 pounds, and she's starting to get guys looking at her and asking her out, etc.  I'm stuck being jealous.  I just don't know what to do!  I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what's left of my youth!  I haven't even been swimming in 10 years 'cause I don't want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I'm desperate for help. Thank you, Bonnie

Bonnie, Sweetie.      I hear my own feelings at your age echoed in your letter. At 19 I also wondered if I would ever find someone who would love and accept me the way that I am. It has taken awhile, and a lot of concious effort, but I feel I have somewhat arrived, and it is a wonderful and liberating feeling. They say you have to like yourself first and it is true. Start by at least treating yourself with respect. If you treat yourself with respect, then others will too, men included. There are plenty of happily married/involved women of size. The key is not a small dress size, but self confidence and self acceptance.       I didn't think I could ever accept or much less like myself at my current weight. (The number doesn't matter because there are folks in this newsgroup who are all up and down the scale who have made it to the point where they like and accept themselves. Your first goal should not be to lose weight but to learn to accept and like yourself as a person. This is a long an difficult process, but well worth the journey.      First of all, there are men out there who like larger women. Read this newsgroup for awhile or browse the alt.personals.fat and you will learn of many of them. (as with using any personals, be careful and use good judgement). Second, I hope at the tender age of 19 that you aren't determined to get married right away. I wanted the same thing at 19, and 20, and 25, and 29. At 31, I have had several relationships with men who have appreciated me as a whole person, my weight included, and told me I was beautiful. ( I now believe that whether a man is telling me or not) . But before I get away from the point, I have never regretted not getting married earlier in my life. I have had a wealth of experiences and adventures that I wouldn't trade. Live your life first, and don't ever settle for the first man to come along because you think it will be your only chance. From someone who believed that,  it wont be.      In order to help you bolster your own self esteem and guide you on a journey of self discovery and acceptance, I suggest getting in touch with your local Naffa Chapter. I don't know where you live, but the information is available at their web page. Just search for Naffa. These folks have social events where larger individuals can have fun in an environment free from ridicule, and there are gentlemen who may show up to some of these events specifically in search of a dating opportunity. But aside from that opportunity, there are people there, and here in this newsgroup, who are struggling, or have struggled, with the same feelings that you have. Read the stories frequently posted here and you will feel like you are not alone and maybe even be able to learn to like yourself as much as some of the folks here have. The name of the group is size acceptance and there are many overwieght individuals out there who are happy just the way they are and lead active and "normal" lives. And lastley, don't ever let your weight keep you home and away from doing the things you love. Go check out a local water aerobics class. Many of the folks in those classes are older or heavier and  more accepting. Our Naffa chapter has it's own water aerobics class and most of the folks in it are over 300 lbs, including the instructor who teaches about 10 classes a week to lower weight individuals as well. Focus on your good qualities. Remember that you are a good person and don't ever put yourself down and don't tolerate it from others either. If your college offers counseling, seek it. An objective counsler can help you to work through feelings and discover things to like about yourself that maybe you hadn't thought of in awhile. Be happy and live your life to the fullest, at any weight. Best wishes Jill

Response:

Hi, everyone, my name is Bonnie, and this is sort of the first time I've posted to these groups.  I decided to post because I am at the end of my rope, mentally and physically.  I cannot stand to be the size I am anymore.  I am 19 years old, and i weigh at least 250 pounds, probably more.  I'm so afraid to weigh myself to find out if i've reached 300.  I am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed, and as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.  I'm just so unhappy with myself.  I can't go to a store and buy clothes because the stores around here stop just short of the size I need..i need to order from a special place out West.  I can't possibly wear the kinds of clothes I WANT to wear, which fits my personality...i'm stuck wearing simple sweatshirts and jeans that barely fit me...I am constantly teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I'm a fat pig.  Never mind the fact that he's overweight himself (I inherited it from him, apparently).  I've tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I couldn't make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for me, I have NO willpower...even the idea that if I lose weight then I will look better and feel better doesn't do it for me! Nothing is a big enough incentive.  I don't know what's WRONG with me...my good friend of almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 pounds, and she's starting to get guys looking at her and asking her out, etc.  I'm stuck being jealous.  I just don't know what to do!  I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what's left of my youth!  I haven't even been swimming in 10 years 'cause I don't want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I'm desperate for help. Thank you, Bonnie

Response:

: Prozac.         This is not very brite of you, Barry.  Prozac is not a         drug designed for weight reduction.  It is for depression and         anxiety.  "Some" weight loss is just a side affect.  I've been         on Prozac for a little over a year and have lost a total of         four (4) pounds as a result of the side affect.  So, you see,         it affects different people differently.  It isn't even affective         as an anti-depressant for many people. : Your family doctor can get it.         Nope again.  Many doctors will refer you to a shrink first, and         not even then will they prescribe it.  Why?  Because they don't         know diddily about it. : I went from 235 to 215.         Whoop dee do, 20 whole pounds.  Now you're slim & trim, huh? : Your fear is a sign of depression.         As for Bonnie....She sounds like a troll but I could be wrong.         Bonnie, you're too worried about boys liking you and not thinking         about how well you like yourself.  Appearances are accidental,         your personality is something you've worked on, kiddo. : am so sick of looking at myself in the mirror and being disgusted with : what I see.  I have never had a date in my life, never been kissed,         You don't know how lucky you really are, honey.  Do you seriously         think that teenage boys know how to kiss?  Besides, with all the         nasty diseases going around, you're the best thing that could         happen to a guy.  Many people, not just fat people, have never dated         during their teen years.  Don't blame your lack of popularity on your         weight.  And believe me, those popular kids have reached their apex,         from now on, life is going to be giving most of them some pretty         rude slaps.  And you?  You've already been through the ringer, you'll         be able to handle all the crap life deals out to misfits like us. : as far as i can see, will never get married and have a happy life.         Abe Lincoln said:  People are as about as happy as they set         their minds to be".   I think you just need to set your mind         to being happy with what you've got.  Think about your life,         your friends, all the good things you do have.  Having a man         is not the end-all to happiness & living.  There is too, too         much in the world to be narrowing happiness down to marriage         and sex. : just so unhappy with myself.           Start looking for the things you can be happy about.           1.  You're a nice person.         2.  You're intelligent.         3.  You're pretty.  (yes, you are, no qualifiers here)         4.  You enjoy many activites and interests like....."??".... : I can't go to a store and buy clothes : because the stores around here stop just short of the size I need..i :         There are a lot of us in the same boat as you, dear.  Some of         the smarter ones have taken up sewing. kinds of clothes I WANT to wear, which fits my personality...i'm stuck :

        Why do you want to wear them?  Because the skinny girls wear them?         Or because you really like those styles?   teased about my weight from people in my school (I go to : college) and from my father, who never ceases to remind me that I'm a : fat pig.

        College?  Tell them to start acting their age, remind them that         they're not in high school anymore.         What a lovely father.  Tell him to go fuck himself. Never mind the fact that he's overweight himself (I inherited :

 it from him, apparently).           Oh, well, then just snort and oink at him.  What a hypocrite. :-         Your best bet with him is to disown him (if that is economically         possible). I've tried Overeaters Anonymous, but I : couldn't make myself stick to the 12 steps.  Nothing seems to work for : me, I have NO willpower...even the idea that if I lose weight then I :

Forget the diets, please.  They'll only make you fatter and then you'll be even more upset.  Talk to the folks here, they're nice (nicer than me), they'll help you out.  Really. will look better and feel better doesn't do it for me! Nothing is a big : enough incentive.  

You can look and feel good now, just as you are.  Forget trying to achieve someone else's ideal. : I don't know what's WRONG with me... You've been listen to the wrong people and have bought into the main stream's totally irrational concept of ideal beauty.  That's what is wrong with you. You're not alone. : my good friend of : almost 15 years (who is also very overweight) has recently dropped 60 : pounds, and she's starting to get guys looking at her and asking her : out, etc.  

Oh yea?  Just wait, she'll put it all back on.  And where were those boys when she was heavier?  Would you really want that kind of guy?  The kind who only cares what you look like and not who you are? Boys and dating are not your life's goal.  Who told you that it was? Your goal is to be happy, that does not necessarily include (nor disclude) the involvement of a man in your life. : I just don't know what to do! Accept yourself as a decent, worthy person, just as you exist now, then go from there. : I want to lose the weight so I can enjoy what's left of my youth!  I :         Oh jeese!  I love how kids think that after the teen years life         ends.  Yea, Bonnie, you'll never ever have fun once you hit 21.         Get real. : haven't even been swimming in 10 years 'cause I don't want anyone to see : me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!   That's your own fault, if you miss it, then do it!  Who cares what other people think.  Honey, I didn't swim during my teen years either for the same reason.  I got snide remarks, and they hurt.  But now I'm smart enough to consider the source and you should do the same.  Don't miss out on swimming.  I own three suits and I swim at a gym during the winter! I have a friend from Mexico who is just a little bit taller and a little bit heavier than me.  She has a male-friend (not her boyfriend but he sometimes acts like it) who gets upset when other men look at her when she is with him!  Yes, other men "check her out"!  (I gotta go to the restaurants where *she* goes!) Sandra

Response:

Elliott, That quote of Cathi's (which I also like) reminded me of the following poem that is along the same lines. On an ancient wall in China Where a brooding Buddha blinks, Deeply graven is the message-- It is later than you think. The clock of life is wound but once And no man has the power To tell just when the hands will stop At late or early hour. Now is all the time you own, The past a golden link, Go cruising now my brother-- It is later than you think. Julie

Response:

Mary-Anne I would have to disagree with you about a couple of points. The distinction you make between "clinical depression" and "feeling bad" is not maintained in general (psychiatrists offer drugs for lifting moods or getting through difficult times).  When the distinction is stressed it is often merely self-serving (a defence by drug-prescibers). I do NOT think anyone should "Hire a Psychiatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology" unless they have already made up their mind to take the drugs implied in hiring such as "specialist". Kay

Well Kay, I have to disagree with you.  Coming from a manic/depressant household I can assure you there *is* a huge difference between chemical depression and situational depression.  People in a chemical depression NEED anti-depressants.  People in a situation depression need to learn to deal with their problems.  If they use anti-depressants (which many doctors will give them) then they are bandaiding their inability to cope. What they need is coping skills. What a person should use is a *good* psychiatrist that they trust. Someone that will work with them and not just give them what they ask for.  A good doctor will determine the true need for drugs.  He/she will be able to distingish between a chemical and situational depression. -- The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of Hewlett-Packard.

Response:

writes: - Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - writes: Prozac. Your family doctor can get it. ... Barry: PROZAC?  Who are you kidding?  A whole TWENTY pounds, huh?  Was it worth becoming dependent? Bonnie is feeling bad, but there are a lot of other things she can do that do not involve getting mixed up with drug dependence and pharmaceutical company shills. Bonnie: If you weigh between 250 and 300, twenty pounds obviously is not going to be the difference between dating or not, swimming or not, being accepted or not.  All that taking a drug like Prozac could do for you to lift depression stops when the drug-taking stops.  There are also side effects you would need to review very, very carefully.  What you need to look for are ways to make yourself happier long-term. Kay [ on soapbox] This may be off topic, but there is a BIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIG difference between clinical depression (which is a chemical problem) and feeling better or worse ABOUT something. What we appear to have here is someone who feels bad about her size. It appears to be ABOUT something, so that does not suggest drugs would help in this case.  I mean, given how fat people are treated in this culture, how they are told they should feel about themselves, what psychologically normal person WOULDN’T start out feeling bad? However, sometimes clinical depression can attach itself to something. Anxiety (in the sense of free-floating fear) can do it too.  You can generally tell that this is happening when the depression (or anxiety) moves to something else.  It is possible that she’s depressed, but I don’t think we are in a position to judge that given what we have been told.  There are detailed FAQs posted in alt.support.depression which would allow Bonnie to judge for herself whether she is clinically depressed. I DO NOT recommend using antidepressants as weight-loss drugs. The amount of weight is not enough.  It does not last beyond taking the drug, and the side-effects are probably not worth it. However, there can be other advantages to taking them IF you are clinically depressed, whether you are fat or not. If you go that route, there are a family of drugs like Prozac (Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Paxil etc.) and one would not necessarily begin with Prozac itself.  I DO NOT recommend using a family doctor.  It would be legal, but there is too much to know. Hire a Psychiatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology. [off soapbox] Mary-Anne

Mary-Anne I would have to disagree with you about a couple of points. The distinction you make between "clinical depression" and "feeling bad" is not maintained in general (psychiatrists offer drugs for lifting moods or getting through difficult times).  When the distinction is stressed it is often merely self-serving (a defence by drug-prescibers). I do NOT think anyone should "Hire a Psychiatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology" unless they have already made up their mind to take the drugs implied in hiring such as "specialist".   Kay

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prozac. Your family doctor can get it. … Barry: PROZAC?  Who are you kidding?  A whole TWENTY pounds, huh?  Was it worth becoming dependent? Bonnie is feeling bad, but there are a lot of other things she can do that do not involve getting mixed up with drug dependence and pharmaceutical company shills. Bonnie: If you weigh between 250 and 300, twenty pounds obviously is not going to be the difference between dating or not, swimming or not, being accepted or not.  All that taking a drug like Prozac could do for you to lift depression stops when the drug-taking stops.  There are also side effects you would need to review very, very carefully.  What you need to look for are ways to make yourself happier long-term. Kay

[ on soapbox] This may be off topic, but there is a BIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIGBIG difference between clinical depression (which is a chemical problem) and feeling better or worse ABOUT something. What we appear to have here is someone who feels bad about her size. It appears to be ABOUT something, so that does not suggest drugs would help in this case.  I mean, given how fat people are treated in this culture, how they are told they should feel about themselves, what psychologically normal person WOULDN’T start out feeling bad? However, sometimes clinical depression can attach itself to something. Anxiety (in the sense of free-floating fear) can do it too.  You can generally tell that this is happening when the depression (or anxiety) moves to something else.  It is possible that she’s depressed, but I don’t think we are in a position to judge that given what we have been told.  There are detailed FAQs posted in alt.support.depression which would allow Bonnie to judge for herself whether she is clinically depressed. I DO NOT recommend using antidepressants as weight-loss drugs. The amount of weight is not enough.  It does not last beyond taking the drug, and the side-effects are probably not worth it. However, there can be other advantages to taking them IF you are clinically depressed, whether you are fat or not. If you go that route, there are a family of drugs like Prozac (Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Paxil etc.) and one would not necessarily begin with Prozac itself.  I DO NOT recommend using a family doctor.  It would be legal, but there is too much to know. Hire a Psychiatrist who specializes in psychopharmacology. [off soapbox] Mary-Anne

Response:

: Some doctors write scripts for Prozac to overweight patients because in : a noticeable number of Prozac patients, some amount of decrease in : desire to over-eat becomes present.         It pisses me off when doctors do stuff like that.  Even *they*         are looking for the quick fix! : Apparantly Prozac is the "sister" drug to Pondimin.  Pondimin is the fen : side of Phen/fen.  I am not sure what "sister" drug means but thought it : might be an interesting note…         That *is* interesting, I’d like to hear more about this, if         anyone has the info….? Sandra

Response:

<snipped a lot I haven’t even been swimming in 10 years ’cause I don’t want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!

It may sound counterintuitive, but consider swimming at a naturist/nudist resort.  There are two reasons for this.  First, there are strong rules (if you pick the right place) about making remarks about the way someone looks.  You may actually get LESS abuse than at "normal" beaches.  When you pick a resotrt, ask about that.  Second, if a man gets a hard-on from looking at you, you can see.  I remember it happening to me once, and it felt SO satisfying.  Did wonders for my ego. Mary-Anne

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <edited         Prozac is not a         drug designed for weight reduction.  It is for depression and         anxiety.  "Some" weight loss is just a side affect.  I’ve been         on Prozac for a little over a year and have lost a total of         four (4) pounds as a result of the side affect.  So, you see,         it affects different people differently.  It isn’t even affective         as an anti-depressant for many people. A number of years ago, my (then) doctor rather quickly prescribed Prozac for me because he thought that I may be a little depressed, which had a tendency to trigger my over-eating. He started me on 20mg/day, and eventually raised the doseage to 80mg/day (four capsules).  I’m one of those you mentioned who Prozac did little or nothing for. Actually, if I had not known that I had swallowed the capsules myself, I would not have known that I had taken anything at all. Prozac seems to help a lot of people with some depression related problems, but for me it was a rather useless drug. Some doctors write scripts for Prozac to overweight patients because in a noticeable number of Prozac patients, some amount of decrease in desire to over-eat becomes present.

Apparantly Prozac is the "sister" drug to Pondimin.  Pondimin is the fen side of Phen/fen.  I am not sure what "sister" drug means but thought it might be an interesting note… — The opinions expressed here are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of Hewlett-Packard.

Response:

Bonnie, It’s the shits being 19, isn’t it?  I’ve been overweight all my life and   I do remember.  I think the best advice you’ve been given is to learn to love and accept yourself…then, if you want to lose weight, maybe that will come but it won’t be essential to your happiness. Prozac did help me out of a bad, bad time, so I wouldn’t count it out automatically but I’d want a psychologist or mental health professional to help make that decision.  Therapy worked wonders for me as did finding a general practitioner who treated me like a normal person. Therapy is rough sometimes–I personally cried a lot–but it was worth it in the end.  I think it’s great you’re reaching out.  I was so into myself at your age that I couldn’t even think  about getting help  or talking about it.  I wish you the peace and happiness you deserve. Nancy

Response:

Hi Bonnie, I think the best advice you’ve been given is to work on becoming happy with yourself, just as you are.  And yes, that might involve some counseling, particularly if you’re depressed.  In all fairness, I wouldn’t write off the drugs right away–Prozac did help me for several years–but it was prescribed after consultation with a psychologist. Therapy and a general practitioner who talked to me like a human being worked wonders.  It just isn’t going to be an overnight thing here.  I wish you nothing but happiness. Nancy

Response:

Prozac. Your family doctor can get it. I went from 235 to 215.

Do not, I repeat DO NOT use Prozac unless you have been DIAGNOSED with CLINICAL DEPRESSION.  Prozac is for treating depression, NOT a diet pill. Your fear is a sign of depression.

Bonnie, your fear MAY be a sign of depression.  Then again, it may be a natural reaction to a lifetime of being put down for being fat.  The only way to find out for sure is to talk to a good (fat-friendly) doctor.  DO NOT take this person’s word for it. Miche IMPORTANT: I will be OFFLINE from 21 Dec to 6 Jan.     <* What I post is my opinion only.     In order to achieve balance, first you need two sides.

Response:

Choose a plan that seems most logical for yourself, and JUST DO IT!!

Why does she need to lose weight?  I don’t think she does! Bonnie, you are gorgeous, loveable and worthy *just the way you are*. Miche IMPORTANT: I will be OFFLINE from 21 Dec to 6 Jan.     <* What I post is my opinion only.     In order to achieve balance, first you need two sides.

Response:

<edited         Prozac is not a         drug designed for weight reduction.  It is for depression and         anxiety.  "Some" weight loss is just a side affect.  I’ve been         on Prozac for a little over a year and have lost a total of         four (4) pounds as a result of the side affect.  So, you see,         it affects different people differently.  It isn’t even affective         as an anti-depressant for many people.

A number of years ago, my (then) doctor rather quickly prescribed Prozac for me because he thought that I may be a little depressed, which had a tendency to trigger my over-eating. He started me on 20mg/day, and eventually raised the doseage to 80mg/day (four capsules).  I’m one of those you mentioned who Prozac did little or nothing for. Actually, if I had not known that I had swallowed the capsules myself, I would not have known that I had taken anything at all. Prozac seems to help a lot of people with some depression related problems, but for me it was a rather useless drug.   Some doctors write scripts for Prozac to overweight patients because in a noticeable number of Prozac patients, some amount of decrease in desire to over-eat becomes present.   Elliott

Response:

<snipped a lot I haven’t even been swimming in 10 years ’cause I don’t want anyone to see me in a bathing suit! I miss that so much!  If anyone here is going through the same thing or knows how to help me, PLEASE either e-mail me or post a message to this newsgroup, I’m desperate for help. Thank you, Bonnie

Bonnie, As others have said, Been there/ done that.  I know several women in the area who have also been there.   There are men out there looking for large ladies.  They are harder to find than the cat calling ones on the corner, but they are there.  There are several web sites for big beautiful women and their admirers.  There websites are: My favorite:  http://www.momi.com/bbws/ Others of interest:  http://www.pencomputing.com/bbwqt/index2.htm                 http://www.geocities.com/southbeach/1813/                 http://members.aol.com/clm1948/fat.html I’ve been interacting (email letters) with FA and it’s busted my ego, and often puts a stupid grin on my face.  I suggest you go look at the photos of the ladies.  I felt right at home with them.  View until you realize there are a lot of wonderful ladies out there just like you.  Then go find those guys that keep asking where all the young BBWs are.  There seemed to be a huge thread going on that a few months back.  Write to more than one.  They may not be in your area, they may think you’re too young, whatever – give yourself more than one chance. Once you find one BBW group the rest are on a BBW/FA ring that links one site to the next Fat acceptance site.  I haven’t gotten through them all yet. I wish you luck and happiness.  It may seem like it is a long time coming.  But most of us BBWs are survivers. Sherry P. (email address changed to thwart junk mailers)

Response:

Question:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma. Zoe

Response:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

Yes – http://www.petplace.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=3830 http://www.sro.org/volume2issue2/abstractbrowser.htm I’m sorry to hear about your cat. Hope this helps, Lauren =^..^= See my cats:   http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph

Response:

Do cats have serotonin?

Sure.  In fact studies have been done on the effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g., fluoxetine hydrochloride), in reducing problem urine spraying in cats. I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

I’m very sorry to hear of your cat’s problem.   I haven’t read any studies about serotonin and lymphoma in cats.  Sounds interesting. You may want to speak to your vet about supplementing you cat’s diet with omega-3 fatty acids.  Some studies have shown eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) limit tumor growth and may prevent cachexia and metastasis.   DHA & EPA seem to alter membrane fluidity and permeability, making tumor cells more susceptible to both chemotherapy and the cat’s immune system. You may also want to speak to your vet about a high-protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet.  Tumors use the cat’s supply of glucose for energy; and fatty acids and amino acids are not good fuel sources for most tumors. A high protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet will fulfill the cat’s energy and protein needs and at the same time limit the supply of carbohydrate to the tumor. Good luck. Phil.

Response:

Thanks very much, Phil, for your detailed suggestions. I will raise them with my vet today. Zoe

Response:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma. Zoe

Response:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

Yes – http://www.petplace.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=3830 http://www.sro.org/volume2issue2/abstractbrowser.htm I’m sorry to hear about your cat. Hope this helps, Lauren =^..^= See my cats:   http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph

Response:

Do cats have serotonin?

Sure.  In fact studies have been done on the effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g., fluoxetine hydrochloride), in reducing problem urine spraying in cats. I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

I’m very sorry to hear of your cat’s problem.   I haven’t read any studies about serotonin and lymphoma in cats.  Sounds interesting. You may want to speak to your vet about supplementing you cat’s diet with omega-3 fatty acids.  Some studies have shown eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) limit tumor growth and may prevent cachexia and metastasis.   DHA & EPA seem to alter membrane fluidity and permeability, making tumor cells more susceptible to both chemotherapy and the cat’s immune system. You may also want to speak to your vet about a high-protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet.  Tumors use the cat’s supply of glucose for energy; and fatty acids and amino acids are not good fuel sources for most tumors. A high protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet will fulfill the cat’s energy and protein needs and at the same time limit the supply of carbohydrate to the tumor. Good luck. Phil.

Response:

Thanks very much, Phil, for your detailed suggestions. I will raise them with my vet today. Zoe

Response:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma. Zoe

Response:

Do cats have serotonin? I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

Yes – http://www.petplace.com/Articles/artShow.asp?artID=3830 http://www.sro.org/volume2issue2/abstractbrowser.htm I’m sorry to hear about your cat. Hope this helps, Lauren =^..^= See my cats:   http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mickey4paws2000/lst2?.tok=bcSBfAPB.wc8DtTG… =/Mickey%26Meesha&.src=ph

Response:

Do cats have serotonin?

Sure.  In fact studies have been done on the effects of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (e.g., fluoxetine hydrochloride), in reducing problem urine spraying in cats. I read today that researchers have found that serotonin kills lymphoma cancer cells in people and my cat is receiving chemo for lymphoma.

I’m very sorry to hear of your cat’s problem.   I haven’t read any studies about serotonin and lymphoma in cats.  Sounds interesting. You may want to speak to your vet about supplementing you cat’s diet with omega-3 fatty acids.  Some studies have shown eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) limit tumor growth and may prevent cachexia and metastasis.   DHA & EPA seem to alter membrane fluidity and permeability, making tumor cells more susceptible to both chemotherapy and the cat’s immune system. You may also want to speak to your vet about a high-protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet.  Tumors use the cat’s supply of glucose for energy; and fatty acids and amino acids are not good fuel sources for most tumors. A high protein/fat, low-carbohydrate diet will fulfill the cat’s energy and protein needs and at the same time limit the supply of carbohydrate to the tumor. Good luck. Phil.

Response:

Thanks very much, Phil, for your detailed suggestions. I will raise them with my vet today. Zoe

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al….

I believe serotonin is created in the brain out of tryptophan.  So, taking tryptophan can increase the level of serotonin in the brain (making it easier to sleep).  Taking carbohydrates makes it easier for the tryptophan to travel from the blood into the brain.  Vitamins C and B6 are also needed for the serotonin synthesis. I control my serotonin levels with biofeedback.  I warm my fingers, when cold, using mind control, to prevent migraine headaches.  High serotonin levels cause cold hands.  However, I think what I’m controlling is the serotonin level in the blood, which may be very different, I suppose, from the level in the brain. Cathy                               TISSATAAFL

Response:

Orfirer (Rebecca Johnson School)) writes: Hurray!!!  A prescription for chocolate!!!!!   Thank you!!!!!~

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. Thanks..

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. Thanks..

You could try increasing your daily intake of tryptophan, an amino acid which is the precursor to serotonin.  This may be moderately helpful. Enjoy!

Response:

: Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? : Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. : Thanks.. Chocolate. (Seriously.)

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al….

Just read on a Prodigy BB that a non-prescription medication called Deprex is supposed to be an effective substitute for antidepressants such as Prozac and Zoloft.  I’m going to check into it.  E-mail me

Response:

Yes here are some ways to increase serotonin in the brain through what and how you eat. Serotonin is an amino acid whose path is easily blocked by the aminos in protein.So eat ccarbs 1st and proteins later this will give your brain a chance to convert the tryptophan in the carbs to serotonin and get it to the receptors in your brain. even small amounts of protein will block the serotonin process. Second eat foods that are high in tryptophan from which serotonin is produced. these include, barley, potatoes, and cashews. Not all carbs are high in tryptophan, for instance corn and chic peas are very low in it. third deficiencies in vitamins and minerals needed to produce sertonin can reduce the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. Folic Acid, eg from Spinach/2 cups cooked/day, and Selenium eg from 6 Brazil Nuts/day, and a variety of the B-Complex vitamins are all necessary for serotonin production. Deficiences in these can be triggered by coffee, caffiene, alcohol, poor diet, and stress. Humans need only small amounts of protein a day for health. 3-4ozs for a 150lb male is all that’s needed. North Americans grossly overconsume protein. Cut back on your protein, eat it separately and graze on low fat high tryptophan foods. lately I’ve been carrying cashews with me wherever I go and eating a handful whenever I feel my mood falling, so far it seems to work and I certainly notice a mood change when I eat my protein. Wheat Bran, but not Oat Bran, is very high in tryptophan and so munching on a Bran muffin is a good, convenient way to boost your serotonin. The Book _Diet for a Small Planet_ has charts that show the aminos in various foods. I’m sure other books have good charts too. The Book _Managing Your Mind and Mood through food_ by Judith Wurtman, PhD. explains the amino process easily, clearly, and accurately. the Book _Food Your Miracle Medicine_ by Jean Carper also has good stuff on mood, and all sorts of other ways to improve your health by how and what you eat.

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al….

I believe serotonin is created in the brain out of tryptophan.  So, taking tryptophan can increase the level of serotonin in the brain (making it easier to sleep).  Taking carbohydrates makes it easier for the tryptophan to travel from the blood into the brain.  Vitamins C and B6 are also needed for the serotonin synthesis. I control my serotonin levels with biofeedback.  I warm my fingers, when cold, using mind control, to prevent migraine headaches.  High serotonin levels cause cold hands.  However, I think what I’m controlling is the serotonin level in the blood, which may be very different, I suppose, from the level in the brain. Cathy                               TISSATAAFL

Response:

Orfirer (Rebecca Johnson School)) writes: Hurray!!!  A prescription for chocolate!!!!!   Thank you!!!!!~

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. Thanks..

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. Thanks..

You could try increasing your daily intake of tryptophan, an amino acid which is the precursor to serotonin.  This may be moderately helpful. Enjoy!

Response:

: Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? : Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al…. : Thanks.. Chocolate. (Seriously.)

Response:

Any references to ‘natural’ methods of increasing serotonin in the brain? Looking for alrternatives to Prozac, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, et al….

Just read on a Prodigy BB that a non-prescription medication called Deprex is supposed to be an effective substitute for antidepressants such as Prozac and Zoloft.  I’m going to check into it.  E-mail me

Response:

Yes here are some ways to increase serotonin in the brain through what and how you eat. Serotonin is an amino acid whose path is easily blocked by the aminos in protein.So eat ccarbs 1st and proteins later this will give your brain a chance to convert the tryptophan in the carbs to serotonin and get it to the receptors in your brain. even small amounts of protein will block the serotonin process. Second eat foods that are high in tryptophan from which serotonin is produced. these include, barley, potatoes, and cashews. Not all carbs are high in tryptophan, for instance corn and chic peas are very low in it. third deficiencies in vitamins and minerals needed to produce sertonin can reduce the conversion of tryptophan to serotonin. Folic Acid, eg from Spinach/2 cups cooked/day, and Selenium eg from 6 Brazil Nuts/day, and a variety of the B-Complex vitamins are all necessary for serotonin production. Deficiences in these can be triggered by coffee, caffiene, alcohol, poor diet, and stress. Humans need only small amounts of protein a day for health. 3-4ozs for a 150lb male is all that’s needed. North Americans grossly overconsume protein. Cut back on your protein, eat it separately and graze on low fat high tryptophan foods. lately I’ve been carrying cashews with me wherever I go and eating a handful whenever I feel my mood falling, so far it seems to work and I certainly notice a mood change when I eat my protein. Wheat Bran, but not Oat Bran, is very high in tryptophan and so munching on a Bran muffin is a good, convenient way to boost your serotonin. The Book _Diet for a Small Planet_ has charts that show the aminos in various foods. I’m sure other books have good charts too. The Book _Managing Your Mind and Mood through food_ by Judith Wurtman, PhD. explains the amino process easily, clearly, and accurately. the Book _Food Your Miracle Medicine_ by Jean Carper also has good stuff on mood, and all sorts of other ways to improve your health by how and what you eat.

Response:

Great information Alan….and I’m glad you’ve found a way to become "normal" it’s about time chuck heehee <j/k. Seratonin is also prescribed for people with SAD I believe, it’s apparently what we get from the sun rays in the summer and during winter time lack of seratonin in some people causes them to be more depressed than others. hugs padders (

Question:

Then there is the aspect, if each med acts differently for every person, how the <bleep did they get on the market for a specific ailment in the first place? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Asking what other peoples experience is on any psychotropic meds is a waste of time….as everyone reacts differently….. not necessarily.  if you are on a med and are having some kind of adverse side effect and talk to others who are having the same side effect, then odds are it’s common and should just be noted.  if you are on one med and looking into another but are concerned abuot some aspects of it, talking to others who have been on it can give you a broad and basic idea of what it could be like for you..note i said could be like.  sure all this could be discussed with your doc, but we all know that some docs aren’t worth their spit….so talking to others and finding out what other reactions others are having can sometimes give the information needed to make the determination on whether a second or third medical opinion is needed…does that make sense? bright blessings da wench

Response:

You meant this one hooked to the person yammering about them acting different for each person, right? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then there is the aspect, if each med acts differently for every person, how the <bleep did they get on the market for a specific ailment in the first place? Yeah and if each person reacts so different then what is the point of doing clinical trials.

Response:

Asking what other peoples experience is on any psychotropic meds is a waste of time….as everyone reacts differently…..

not necessarily.  if you are on a med and are having some kind of adverse side effect and talk to others who are having the same side effect, then odds are it’s common and should just be noted.  if you are on one med and looking into another but are concerned abuot some aspects of it, talking to others who have been on it can give you a broad and basic idea of what it could be like for you..note i said could be like.  sure all this could be discussed with your doc, but we all know that some docs aren’t worth their spit….so talking to others and finding out what other reactions others are having can sometimes give the information needed to make the determination on whether a second or third medical opinion is needed…does that make sense? bright blessings da wench

Response:

My experince has been positive Only when the relationship with the doc was positive. That was four-five-six years ago before corporate dollar started putting a cap on time investment per client and drug company ramped up on sticking there hand in docs pocket to push whatever. Examples: I got stuck with some sort of steroid nose spray just because I said my sinuses don’t feel right. the zyprexa incident. I am looking for some sort of interview template listing questions I should ask the doc before we even dive into the issues part this next time. Thing that helps me is laughing a whole bunch at with and for every chance I get. They should do a study on the healing effects of laughter. I never felt ‘less-than-human’ while on BP meds, whether they worked or not, unless they affected me in an adverse and negative space manner. Maybe I’m lucky from starting out before any visits to the head doctor in days gone by looking things up and preparing prior to the visits. Part of me is guessing there is somewhat of a sense of powerlessness (actually this was explained as the most common side-effect of psychoactive meds) when one is not ‘involved’ in their own recovery and healing beyond trips to the pharmacy. That’s the main reason I keep harping on getting in there ‘with’ the doc on which way things go during therapy. The dealing with issues thing is as much or more important than which meds to use and how. Brain is powerful tool. With exercise, it can do a lot of this work all by itself if given the right food, as in nutrition and practice. Lately, the practice and nutrition is leaving room for improvement here at MadGello Central, but dang, when it’s working, meds just get in the way. I really kinda just plain like the me that has grown out of the former rack of muck. And I don’t hate me when it’s not going so well. The big change was when I stopped hurting myself and other people when frustrated with things going haywire. It makes a Big Difference having a decent attitude toward things in general. I keep hoping a praying these nanobot chemical imbalance analyzer gizmos that can squirt out the right combination of whichever chemical or nutrient is needed in the proper areas at the proper time for equalizing the present problem get to market soon.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK… fair enough…. I have experience with:  Lithium, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Carbamazapine, Clonidine, Depakote, Nortriptyline, Risperdal, Prozac, Buspar, Lorazapam, Ritalin, Klonopin, Dexedrine <and I’m sure I forgot a few  Lithium has saved my son, and Depakote has saved my husband. Barbie Doll My horse has me mounted due to being barraged with promed speak when I can’t afford to have docs make mistakes and put me in suicidal mode after taking one pill.  It is self-preservation that put me in this position. I have not been on meds since 1996. My income has tripled in that time. I have the best and most fun job I’ve had in my entire life. The people I work with are totally supportive of my mood shifts since I brought open and honest communication about them into work with me. Like I said, Lithium for a year and a half gave me a calm base to start from, as Keith mentioned. I’m considering getting back on that program now that the depression that went un-noticed for nearly a year gave way to an unpleasant (compared to other more fun and productive manic episodes in the past four years) manic phase. I came here for guidance not preaching. I’m not saying you are preaching. I’m saying the ones here that are, make it extremely difficult to have a simple conversation about what my options are. Research I can find on my own. Personal experince with the state of the art in BP meds is decidedly lacking in all the conversations I’m getting stuck in here. I start new topics and I get preconceived notion blasts about my being in a nonmedicated state at present. I put up flags of all sorts asking for a general truce on the Fact that people can make up their own minds and learn from other people’s experience all at the same time. My horse is very small. I am even smaller.   the knight in shining armor thing was over as quickly as it was finished. there was a reason for it and it is done. I passed some messages to a few other Trolls. Not they don’t bother me any more. At least some parts worked. Now, I need to find out what meds are at the forefront of BP work and which ones have minimal side-effects. I really don’t want to get caught in the "Which is worse, tremors and itchy under the skin I can’t scratch or learning how to modify my brain chemistry with diet and good exercise? .. .  practice with dealing with people by doing so or covering it all over with two shades of grey for emotional rainbow?" things like that.

Response:

I knew that.   <wink I wasn’t real worried about my reaction about your reaction, just wanted to make sure you understood it was <slightly in jest. I have about ten seconds reading info on how usenet is structured, so I appreciate the tweak here and there so I get it down accurately before I go waste a bunch of time making a newsgroup for one. That was also s’posed to be phunny.   I’m learning better how to weed out what bugs me, slowly. . . Lot less manic tonight from it, that’s for sure. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry.. I went back an looked at your message and I think I over reacted. I was more kidding about it,  sweetness. I don’t have any clue on how the usenet thing works up in the stratosphere. It doesn’t look it’ll head that way anyways. I forgot the smilie and the thanks part, my bad….  I thanked the person that advised me of this and I used their advice.

Response:

Asking what other peoples experience is on any psychotropic meds is a waste of time….as everyone reacts differently….. The only way you can find out, or have any real idea of how a med works on you…is to try it….. It is not really necessary to look for the latest meds….as the older ones work fine on some people…with minimal side effects….if you have not tried them, why go for the more expensive newer meds…unless your insurance company pays for all of them….. I am also unmedicated…not because I want to be, but because no meds have worked on me for longer then a month…and have been trying since 82….so have tried just about everything… so know that with experience…<g…can learn what you have to, to survive….not live….survive….am glad that you have been able to do more then that….. Those people that are anti-unmedicated just feel that they are weak, because they have to take meds….so feel that those who do not, are stronger then them…..which is not true…. almost anything is better then having to learn to live with this thing unmedicated…..for most people….in my case it took me over eight years to learn how to handle…and still am just surviving…not living….during that time spent periods of up to nine months, continuously, in hospital….with innumerable periods of two to four weeks…. Just some thoughts….sno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK… fair enough…. I have experience with:  Lithium, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Carbamazapine, Clonidine, Depakote, Nortriptyline, Risperdal, Prozac, Buspar, Lorazapam, Ritalin, Klonopin, Dexedrine <and I’m sure I forgot a few  Lithium has saved my son, and Depakote has saved my husband. Barbie Doll My horse has me mounted due to being barraged with promed speak when I can’t afford to have docs make mistakes and put me in suicidal mode after taking one pill.  It is self-preservation that put me in this position. I have not been on meds since 1996. My income has tripled in that time. I have the best and most fun job I’ve had in my entire life. The people I work with are totally supportive of my mood shifts since I brought open and honest communication about them into work with me. Like I said, Lithium for a year and a half gave me a calm base to start from, as Keith mentioned. I’m considering getting back on that program now that the depression that went un-noticed for nearly a year gave way to an unpleasant (compared to other more fun and productive manic episodes in the past four years) manic phase. I came here for guidance not preaching. I’m not saying you are preaching. I’m saying the ones here that are, make it extremely difficult to have a simple conversation about what my options are. Research I can find on my own. Personal experince with the state of the art in BP meds is decidedly lacking in all the conversations I’m getting stuck in here. I start new topics and I get preconceived notion blasts about my being in a nonmedicated state at present. I put up flags of all sorts asking for a general truce on the Fact that people can make up their own minds and learn from other people’s experience all at the same time. My horse is very small. I am even smaller.   the knight in shining armor thing was over as quickly as it was finished. there was a reason for it and it is done. I passed some messages to a few other Trolls. Not they don’t bother me any more. At least some parts worked. Now, I need to find out what meds are at the forefront of BP work and which ones have minimal side-effects. I really don’t want to get caught in the "Which is worse, tremors and itchy under the skin I can’t scratch or learning how to modify my brain chemistry with diet and good exercise? .. .  practice with dealing with people by doing so or covering it all over with two shades of grey for emotional rainbow?" things like that.

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One point for Madgello though if you want to start a new ng don’t put manic before depression in the name

Where would alt.support.manic fit in said hierarchy? Jimi says it, "Manic Depression", not "Depression Manic".  ;-) I think the ng gods would buy it just from that argument alone.

Response:

I was more kidding about it,  sweetness. I don’t have any clue on how the usenet thing works up in the stratosphere. It doesn’t look it’ll head that way anyways. I forgot the smilie and the thanks part, my bad…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I thanked the person that advised me of this and I used their advice.

Response:

OK… fair enough…. I have experience with:  Lithium, Zoloft, Wellbutrin, Carbamazapine, Clonidine, Depakote, Nortriptyline, Risperdal, Prozac, Buspar, Lorazapam, Ritalin, Klonopin, Dexedrine <and I’m sure I forgot a few  Lithium has saved my son, and Depakote has saved my husband. Barbie Doll – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My horse has me mounted due to being barraged with promed speak when I can’t afford to have docs make mistakes and put me in suicidal mode after taking one pill.  It is self-preservation that put me in this position. I have not been on meds since 1996. My income has tripled in that time. I have the best and most fun job I’ve had in my entire life. The people I work with are totally supportive of my mood shifts since I brought open and honest communication about them into work with me. Like I said, Lithium for a year and a half gave me a calm base to start from, as Keith mentioned. I’m considering getting back on that program now that the depression that went un-noticed for nearly a year gave way to an unpleasant (compared to other more fun and productive manic episodes in the past four years) manic phase. I came here for guidance not preaching. I’m not saying you are preaching. I’m saying the ones here that are, make it extremely difficult to have a simple conversation about what my options are. Research I can find on my own. Personal experince with the state of the art in BP meds is decidedly lacking in all the conversations I’m getting stuck in here. I start new topics and I get preconceived notion blasts about my being in a nonmedicated state at present. I put up flags of all sorts asking for a general truce on the Fact that people can make up their own minds and learn from other people’s experience all at the same time. My horse is very small. I am even smaller.   the knight in shining armor thing was over as quickly as it was finished. there was a reason for it and it is done. I passed some messages to a few other Trolls. Not they don’t bother me any more. At least some parts worked. Now, I need to find out what meds are at the forefront of BP work and which ones have minimal side-effects. I really don’t want to get caught in the "Which is worse, tremors and itchy under the skin I can’t scratch or learning how to modify my brain chemistry with diet and good exercise? .. .  practice with dealing with people by doing so or covering it all over with two shades of grey for emotional rainbow?" things like that.

Response:

Are you pro or anti meds? or a tweener? just kidding. I put it up for a vote. you enjoy the bickering over meds or no meds in here?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just maybe you’re putting too much emphasis on "on line"??  If you think there is a need for other groups… go start your own. Just my 2 pennies worth……. Barbie Doll See article on how the process of creating new usenet groups works here:

Response:

See article on how the process of creating new usenet groups works here: http://www5.zdnet.com/devhead/stories/articles/0,4413,2205938,00.html

I have more resources if you’d like some links. Suggestions: "alt.whatever" is for alternate veiwpoints, whatever they may be, from whatever perspective (foul language allowed) "soc.whatever" is for gentle people that just want to talk about it (foul language not allowed)

This would be considered a vanity ng and would not meet the criteria. alt.vent.spleen soc.vent  (no need for foul language without the spleen) needed for obvious reasons suggested # 1 priority for new group creation

Ngs already exist for this purpose–tons of them–the bieggest being alt.flame.  You should look at all the ngs that are already available to you. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -alt.support.manic.depression.success.stories soc. ditto for success stories related to any combination of manic depression, manic and/or depression, meds and/or no meds suggested # 1 priority for new BP/UP group creation alt.support.manic.depression.survivors soc.ditto alt.support.manic.survivors soc.ditto alt.support.depression.survivors soc.ditto for BP/UP survivors that are no longer medicated, may or may not have been medicated in the past suggested # 1 priority for new BP group creation list alt.support.depression.manic.medication  (to conform with existing usenet tree structure & follow current naming convention) soc.ditto BP on meds suggested # 1 priority for new group creation alt.support.manic.medication soc.ditto for manic UP on meds suggested # 1 priority for new group creation

I would suggest you do some research before you suggest new news groups.  The number one thing you must prove is that there are already a LOT of ppl talking about this subject–this means research in deja.com.  The traffic on asdm, ssdm and asdmm is not significant enough to break out even one of the groups you propose.  Please go to alt.config and see what Jay Denheim does–he will delete any new ng that does not fully meet the criteria.  This is an effort to try to get a handle on all the ngs created just for fun, never intending to actually use them. Your subjects are too narrow–there are not enough ppl talking about it on the net.  Also, there are already several ngs which are more general in nature, they are either dead ngs or very slow–which means you will not be able to justify another ng that is even more specifc. My search of ngs that would discuss treatment in general revealed the following groups: alt.support.depression.medication (active ng) soc.support.depression.treatment (very very slow) alt.recovery.depression (dead ng) alt.support.depression.recovery (active) alt.support.depression.recovery.sanctuary (active) I realize these ngs are all for depression–I did not survey the sample msgs to see if they also discuss bipolar.  However, depression is talked about MUCH more than bipolar.   I know this from the research I did last summer to create asdmm. If you did create even one of these ngs, I doubt you would get enough traffic to be worthwhile.  Why not start a private email list?  or a bulletin board?  I think you would have better attendence. In any case, this is just the first step in researching if ppl are talking about bipolar treatment/medication at all. Are you able to send the necessary control messages?  You must have software (such as forte agent) and permisson from your news server. If you want any more free advice from me, please email me, as I probably wont be reading this ng for a few days. <g I did not read any of the responses–I’m trying to get a project out and keep two other ngs running. Nancy to email me, remove the Z. administrator/creator/moderator alt.med.fibromyalgia.recovery.info (moderated) alt.support.depression.manic.moderated

Response:

Just maybe you’re putting too much emphasis on "on line"??  If you think there is a need for other groups… go start your own. Just my 2 pennies worth……. Barbie Doll

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – See article on how the process of creating new usenet groups works here:

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