Question:

Beth I am truly not trying to burst your bubble… and your A1c is great (I’ve kept mine under 5 since LC)… BUT I’ve recently been reading that the most important cholesterol measurement, especially for women is the HDL and for women it should be over 50… also that a ratio of under 4 is what’s best.  Your HDL went down and your ratio went up.  Did your doc say anything about that?  Just curious. Jennifer

That’s why I said "The lipids may not be great now but time should change this." The Doctor is ok with it since the first #’s were with lipitor the 2nd #’s are without. I have PCOS and that causes a low HDL. This # should come up a little over time. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

MY HDL is low too and I have PCOS. DOc wasnt concerned about the LDL

Response:

You did us proud Beth!  Congrats! ConnieW

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My test results are in!!!! Before Starting LC September 17,2001 Meds included Lipitor for cholesterol, Avapro for BP and Actos for BG. Hemoglobin A1C –  6.5 Cholesterol 226 HDL  47 Trig  235 LDL (calculated) 132 VLDL  47 Chol/HDL Ratio 4.8 Almost 2 months into LC December 14, 2001 Off all above mentioned Meds during all but 2 weeks. Hemoglobin A1C-  4.9 Cholesterol 193 HDL   35 Trig   232 LDL  112 VLDL  46 Chol/HDL ratio  5.5 —— T3 total 100 midrange. My Doctor was happily stunned. We had a long talk about LC. He is looking forward to seeing continued improvement. The lipids may not be great now but time should change this. Next test are in March. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Way to go Beth!   woo hoo!!!   I told my hubby about your good news and he smiled too. Thanks Sheila and her DH. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Well Beth I really have other reasons to tell DH of your good news.  I’m trying to tell him all the good reports I hear on hear about on here, in hopes he will give lowcarb a try. Sheila

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Way to go Beth!   woo hoo!!!   I told my hubby about your good news and he smiled too. Thanks Sheila and her DH. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1 Well Beth I really have other reasons to tell DH of your good news.  I’m trying to tell him all the good reports I hear on hear about on here, in hopes he will give lowcarb a try. Sheila

If you succeed let me in on how you did it. My hubby needs to too. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beth I am truly not trying to burst your bubble… and your A1c is great (I’ve kept mine under 5 since LC)… BUT I’ve recently been reading that the most important cholesterol measurement, especially for women is the HDL and for women it should be over 50… also that a ratio of under 4 is what’s best.  Your HDL went down and your ratio went up.  Did your doc say anything about that?  Just curious. Jennifer That’s why I said "The lipids may not be great now but time should change this." The Doctor is ok with it since the first #’s were with lipitor the 2nd #’s are without. I have PCOS and that causes a low HDL. This # should come up a little over time.

Also, according to my lab work I am at the low end of the desirable HDL level. I have been lower at one time. It was after doing a very low fat diet. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

If I’m reading what Beth said correctly, the first set of numbers were with Lipitor, but the later ones were without. That’s an important distinction.

Thanks Jennifer. There is quite a difference. The HDL higher now than before I started Lipitor so I guage it by that. I don’t expect miricles and decided I have to pick my battles. Lipid levels are taking a back seat right now. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Way to go Beth!   woo hoo!!!   I told my hubby about your good news and he smiled too.

Thanks Sheila and her DH. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Beth I am truly not trying to burst your bubble… and your A1c is great (I’ve kept mine under 5 since LC)… BUT I’ve recently been reading that the most important cholesterol measurement, especially for women is the HDL and for women it should be over 50… also that a ratio of under 4 is what’s best.  Your HDL went down and your ratio went up.  Did your doc say anything about that?  Just curious. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My test results are in!!!! Before Starting LC September 17,2001 Meds included Lipitor for cholesterol, Avapro for BP and Actos for BG. Hemoglobin A1C –  6.5 Cholesterol 226 HDL  47 Trig  235 LDL (calculated) 132 VLDL  47 Chol/HDL Ratio 4.8 Almost 2 months into LC December 14, 2001 Off all above mentioned Meds during all but 2 weeks. Hemoglobin A1C-  4.9 Cholesterol 193 HDL   35 Trig   232 LDL  112 VLDL  46 Chol/HDL ratio  5.5 —— T3 total 100 midrange. My Doctor was happily stunned. We had a long talk about LC. He is looking forward to seeing continued improvement. The lipids may not be great now but time should change this. Next test are in March. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Way to go Beth!   woo hoo!!!   I told my hubby about your good news and he smiled too. Sheila

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My test results are in!!!! Before Starting LC September 17,2001 Meds included Lipitor for cholesterol, Avapro for BP and Actos for BG. Hemoglobin A1C –  6.5 Cholesterol 226 HDL  47 Trig  235 LDL (calculated) 132 VLDL  47 Chol/HDL Ratio 4.8 Almost 2 months into LC December 14, 2001 Off all above mentioned Meds during all but 2 weeks. Hemoglobin A1C-  4.9 Cholesterol 193 HDL   35 Trig   232 LDL  112 VLDL  46 Chol/HDL ratio  5.5 —— T3 total 100 midrange. My Doctor was happily stunned. We had a long talk about LC. He is looking forward to seeing continued improvement. The lipids may not be great now but time should change this. Next test are in March. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Congratulations!! Desi

My test results are in!!!! Before Starting LC September 17,2001 Meds included Lipitor for cholesterol, Avapro for BP and Actos for BG. Hemoglobin A1C –  6.5 Cholesterol 226 HDL  47 Trig  235 LDL (calculated) 132 VLDL  47 Chol/HDL Ratio 4.8 Almost 2 months into LC December 14, 2001 Off all above mentioned Meds during all but 2 weeks. Hemoglobin A1C-  4.9 Cholesterol 193 HDL   35 Trig   232 LDL  112 VLDL  46 Chol/HDL ratio  5.5 —— T3 total 100 midrange. My Doctor was happily stunned. We had a long talk about LC. He is looking forward to seeing continued improvement. The lipids may not be great now but time should change this. Next test are in March. — BethM Started 10/24/01 297/283.5/165 homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

My test results are in!!!! Before Starting LC September 17,2001 Meds included Lipitor for cholesterol, Avapro for BP and Actos for BG. Hemoglobin A1C –  6.5 Cholesterol 226 HDL  47 Trig  235 LDL (calculated) 132 VLDL  47 Chol/HDL Ratio 4.8 Almost 2 months into LC December 14, 2001 Off all above mentioned Meds during all but 2 weeks. Hemoglobin A1C-  4.9 Cholesterol 193 HDL   35 Trig   232 LDL  112 VLDL  46 Chol/HDL ratio  5.5 —— T3 total 100 midrange. My Doctor was happily stunned. We had a long talk about LC. He is looking forward to seeing continued improvement. The lipids may not be great now but time should change this. Next test are in March. — BethM Started 10/24/01       297/283.5/165   homepage.mac.com/bsmorr/Photo 1

Response:

Question:

For several months I’ve been taking Neurotin (gabapentin), an anti-spasmodic prescribed because I have a nerve in my stomach that jumps.  For what it’s worth, I’ve found that it seems also to be quite good at controlling my intermittent, right-ear tinnitus. (Do left-handed people get right-ear tinnitus?) Also, I have discovered that the medical information insert that comes with Lipitor (atorvastatin), an cholesterol-lowering drug, lists t. as a possible side effect of this drug.

Response:

I’m left handed and have had tinnitus in both ears for a couple weeks now. Martha Maas <mm…@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

wrote in message

news:37BF26A8.821DAE7A@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

For several months I’ve been taking Neurotin (gabapentin), an anti-spasmodic prescribed because I have a nerve in my stomach that jumps.  For what it’s worth, I’ve found that it seems also to be quite good at controlling my intermittent, right-ear tinnitus. (Do left-handed people get right-ear tinnitus?) Also, I have discovered that the medical information insert that comes with Lipitor (atorvastatin), an cholesterol-lowering drug, lists t. as a possible side effect of this drug.

Response:

Question:

I know a number of people who use Nascobal gel once a week, versus having a B12 injection once a month.  I have heard the gel works best when your levels have already been raised to normal by receiving the injections.  In February this year, Nastech Pharmaceutical Company Inc. ("Nastech") (Nasdaq: NSTK), a leader in drug delivery technology, announced the approval by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) of Nascobal(R) (Cyanocobalamin, USP) Nasal Spray for the treatment of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) deficiency in patients with pernicious anemia, Crohn’s Disease, HIV/AIDS, and multiple sclerosis. I also have known some people use the sublinqual B12 tablets.  I am not sure what the tablets contain, but it is absorbed through the blood in the tongue. Many vegans use these or OTC oral or nasal B-12/folic acid sprays if they are concerned about a deficiency, particularly in children.  They work because they are absorbed through the mucosa, at the point of application, and don’t pass through the stomach. For several years, a couple of different times,  I took Contrin capsules, which would "cure" my anemia when years of iron supplements and an iron rich diet and iron injections wouldn’t. Contrin capsules are actually Iron/Vitamin C/Vitamin B12/Intrinsic Factor, all inside one capsule.  Apparently, for me, when taken with a full glass of liquid, they don’t really dissolve until they are well down the small intestine, where the combination allows the necessary bits to be absorbed.  Even though I have an ileostomy due to Crohn’s, I did not lose a lot of the terminal ileum area. If you don’t have luck with one way (or don’t like shots), I guess it is a good thing we have other options! KarenF. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"C. Berlin" <cber…@pitt.edu

wrote: There is another alternative, a nasal gel that also delivers B12 effectively, without having to give injections.  The manufacturer recommends application once per week.  I’ve used this product (Nascobal), and monitored the result with serial B12 levels; use once every 8 weeks was more than sufficient to correct my mild ileostomy related B12 deficiency. Chuck B. "Ron G" <r…@gould.net wrote in message news:d4meaj0ju5@news4.newsguy.com… Hi— I am an illeostomate, and the Dr’s (multiple) say that swallowing B-12 tablets will do no good at all. The B-12 is absorbed in the last (12 inches?) of the small intestine, and with an ileo, many times part of that intestinal length is removed during surgery. So, illeostomates cannot absorb and use swallowed B-12. So the VA has taught me how to give myself B-12 shots on a monthly schedule, as they say that is the only way for me to get B-12, and that all illeostomates should automatically be taking B-12 shots. Just for your info—- Best to you— Ron Terry Perrett <terry…@orlando188.force9.net wrote in message news:42611c34$0$94525$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would be better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any obvious signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an appointment! Thanks "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net wrote in message news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 – Release Date: 2/14/05

Response:

Thanks, Terry.  No, I’m not in the UK–in Florida, USA.  I’ll try to contact them through email. Vince — "Some men see things as they are and say ‘Why?’ I dream of things that never were and say ‘Why not?’" –George Bernard Shaw "Terry" <terry…@perrt.force9.co.uk

wrote in message

news:4419e23a$0$3630$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Vince, the article was in the I A Journal No. 190 ( Dec Jan Feb ) and > was by Dr Elizabeth Rang wrote an article titled > ‘A stoma and good health– Is there a problem ‘ Are you in the UK? don’t > know if you can get a copy from the Ileostomy group via Internet,. Their > e-mail is i…@the-ia.org.uk. > "Vince Puma" <vp…@se.rr.com

wrote in message

> news:Do%Rf.78137$Fw6.9862@tornado.tampabay.rr.com… >> Yup, my cholesterol and triglyceride levels have been a problem ever >> since my ileostomy operation 8 years ago–controlled with Lipitor and >> Zetia. Docs don’t have a clue.  Do you have a reference to that article? >> Vince >> — >> "Some men see things as they are and say ‘Why?’ >> I dream of things that never were and say ‘Why not?’" >> –George Bernard Shaw >> "Terry" <terry…@perrt.force9.co.uk

wrote in message

>> news:44187245$0$70319$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net… >>> Thanks for your info dingalingdeb, I think the anemia is sorted now, >>> it’s back up to a normal level. My current problem is that the >>> tryglyceride levels are to high, but I tell them that in a magazine >>> article in Ileostomy Journal that some Doc said she had carried out a >>> survey on long term UC patients that high levels of cholesterol and >>> tryglycerides are not unknown but my GP and nurse are not aware of this >>> side effect to UC. Anyone have a similar experience? out there >>> "dingalingdeb" <wilso…@telusplanet.net

wrote in message

>>> news:xs%re.62202$9A2.14561@edtnps89… >>>> Hiya Terry; I posted a looonnnggg letter last night, explaining my >>>> situation and that’s one of the things I forgot to mention – I was/am >>>> anemic as well (no wonder, LOL) I had an ileostomy Jan 04, 2005 and >>>> alltoether was in hospital about 2 months, as, while I was in hospital, >>>> my spleen ruptured and had emerge ncy surgery and had blood >>>> transfusions 8 litres – that’s all the blood in the body – they said if >>>> I hadn’t already been in hospital, I would have been a goner for sure. >>>> Anyway, my dr. told me to take pre natal vitamins, because there’s more >>>> iron in them than anything else you can get, and I needed the >>>> magnesium – that with potassium and bunch of other stuff they were >>>> pumping into me in hosp. Anyway, it didn’t mess with my ileostomy – if >>>> you take this, you will probably have some pretty black stools for >>>> awhile, but that’s just from the iron. I hope it works for you if you >>>> decide to try it. >>>> dingaling >>>> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

>>>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >>>>> After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells >>>>> me I >>>>> have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a >>>>> little >>>>> worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. >>>>> I am a >>>>> vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but >>>>> I >>>>> cannot change this regime. >>>>> Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >>>>> Thanks for any help >>>>> terryp >>>>> terryp

Response:

Hi Vince, the article was in the I A Journal No. 190 ( Dec Jan Feb ) and was by Dr Elizabeth Rang wrote an article titled ‘A stoma and good health– Is there a problem ‘ Are you in the UK? don’t know if you can get a copy from the Ileostomy group via Internet,. Their e-mail is i…@the-ia.org.uk. "Vince Puma" <vp…@se.rr.com

wrote in message

news:Do%Rf.78137$Fw6.9862@tornado.tampabay.rr.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yup, my cholesterol and triglyceride levels have been a problem ever since > my ileostomy operation 8 years ago–controlled with Lipitor and Zetia. > Docs don’t have a clue.  Do you have a reference to that article? > Vince > — > "Some men see things as they are and say ‘Why?’ > I dream of things that never were and say ‘Why not?’" > –George Bernard Shaw > "Terry" <terry…@perrt.force9.co.uk

wrote in message

> news:44187245$0$70319$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net… >> Thanks for your info dingalingdeb, I think the anemia is sorted now, it’s >> back up to a normal level. My current problem is that the tryglyceride >> levels are to high, but I tell them that in a magazine article in >> Ileostomy Journal that some Doc said she had carried out a survey on long >> term UC patients that high levels of cholesterol and tryglycerides are >> not unknown but my GP and nurse are not aware of this side effect to UC. >> Anyone have a similar experience? out there >> "dingalingdeb" <wilso…@telusplanet.net

wrote in message

>> news:xs%re.62202$9A2.14561@edtnps89… >>> Hiya Terry; I posted a looonnnggg letter last night, explaining my >>> situation and that’s one of the things I forgot to mention – I was/am >>> anemic as well (no wonder, LOL) I had an ileostomy Jan 04, 2005 and >>> alltoether was in hospital about 2 months, as, while I was in hospital, >>> my spleen ruptured and had emerge ncy surgery and had blood transfusions >>> 8 litres – that’s all the blood in the body – they said if I hadn’t >>> already been in hospital, I would have been a goner for sure. Anyway, my >>> dr. told me to take pre natal vitamins, because there’s more iron in >>> them than anything else you can get, and I needed the magnesium – that >>> with potassium and bunch of other stuff they were pumping into me in >>> hosp. Anyway, it didn’t mess with my ileostomy – if you take this, you >>> will probably have some pretty black stools for awhile, but that’s just >>> from the iron. I hope it works for you if you decide to try it. >>> dingaling >>> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

>>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >>>> After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me >>>> I >>>> have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a >>>> little >>>> worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I >>>> am a >>>> vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but >>>> I >>>> cannot change this regime. >>>> Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >>>> Thanks for any help >>>> terryp >>>> terryp

Response:

Yeah, the prenatal vitamins I take have b vitamins and a lot of others. However, I sure don’t seem to have more energy – seems most of the time I have none…. they say it’s because my body went through so much – first being so gravely ill and then having the three surgeries all at once – ileostomy; appendectomy; splenectomy then pneumonia all in January and a lot of it is from the fibromyalgia as well… dingaling "Deano" <d…@cogeco.ca

wrote in message

news:JQ%7e.13048$If1.3379529@read2.cgocable.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Terry Perrett wrote: After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp Terry — my Doc says that is is fairly common for ostomates to have iron deficiencies, and she put me on B-12 shots. But only after extensive testing to verify the anemia.  I find the b-12 also helps boost energy levels for me. Hope this helps. ;-Deano BTW – I was taking iron tablets regularly after this was first discovered, and they did not cause me undue constipation at all.

Response:

Thanks for your info dingalingdeb, I think the anemia is sorted now, it’s back up to a normal level. My current problem is that the tryglyceride levels are to high, but I tell them that in a magazine article in Ileostomy Journal that some Doc said she had carried out a survey on long term UC patients that high levels of cholesterol and tryglycerides are not unknown but my GP and nurse are not aware of this side effect to UC. Anyone have a similar experience? out there "dingalingdeb" <wilso…@telusplanet.net

wrote in message

news:xs%re.62202$9A2.14561@edtnps89… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hiya Terry; I posted a looonnnggg letter last night, explaining my > situation and that’s one of the things I forgot to mention – I was/am > anemic as well (no wonder, LOL) I had an ileostomy Jan 04, 2005 and > alltoether was in hospital about 2 months, as, while I was in hospital, my > spleen ruptured and had emerge ncy surgery and had blood transfusions 8 > litres – that’s all the blood in the body – they said if I hadn’t already > been in hospital, I would have been a goner for sure. Anyway, my dr. told > me to take pre natal vitamins, because there’s more iron in them than > anything else you can get, and I needed the magnesium – that with > potassium and bunch of other stuff they were pumping into me in hosp. > Anyway, it didn’t mess with my ileostomy – if you take this, you will > probably have some pretty black stools for awhile, but that’s just from > the iron. I hope it works for you if you decide to try it. > dingaling > "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >> After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I >> have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little >> worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I >> am a >> vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I >> cannot change this regime. >> Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >> Thanks for any help >> terryp >> terryp

Response:

Yup, my cholesterol and triglyceride levels have been a problem ever since my ileostomy operation 8 years ago–controlled with Lipitor and Zetia.  Docs don’t have a clue.  Do you have a reference to that article? Vince — "Some men see things as they are and say ‘Why?’ I dream of things that never were and say ‘Why not?’" –George Bernard Shaw "Terry" <terry…@perrt.force9.co.uk

wrote in message

news:44187245$0$70319$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for your info dingalingdeb, I think the anemia is sorted now, it’s > back up to a normal level. My current problem is that the tryglyceride > levels are to high, but I tell them that in a magazine article in > Ileostomy Journal that some Doc said she had carried out a survey on long > term UC patients that high levels of cholesterol and tryglycerides are not > unknown but my GP and nurse are not aware of this side effect to UC. > Anyone have a similar experience? out there > "dingalingdeb" <wilso…@telusplanet.net

wrote in message

> news:xs%re.62202$9A2.14561@edtnps89… >> Hiya Terry; I posted a looonnnggg letter last night, explaining my >> situation and that’s one of the things I forgot to mention – I was/am >> anemic as well (no wonder, LOL) I had an ileostomy Jan 04, 2005 and >> alltoether was in hospital about 2 months, as, while I was in hospital, >> my spleen ruptured and had emerge ncy surgery and had blood transfusions >> 8 litres – that’s all the blood in the body – they said if I hadn’t >> already been in hospital, I would have been a goner for sure. Anyway, my >> dr. told me to take pre natal vitamins, because there’s more iron in them >> than anything else you can get, and I needed the magnesium – that with >> potassium and bunch of other stuff they were pumping into me in hosp. >> Anyway, it didn’t mess with my ileostomy – if you take this, you will >> probably have some pretty black stools for awhile, but that’s just from >> the iron. I hope it works for you if you decide to try it. >> dingaling >> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >>> After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me >>> I >>> have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a >>> little >>> worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I >>> am a >>> vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I >>> cannot change this regime. >>> Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >>> Thanks for any help >>> terryp >>> terryp

Response:

I was giving myself b12 shots for a couple of years and then just stopped on my own – thanks for the heads up on that, guess I’ll go back to the shots. dingaling "Ron G" <r…@gould.net

wrote in message

news:d4meaj0ju5@news4.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi— > I am an illeostomate, and the Dr’s (multiple) say that swallowing B-12 > tablets will do no good at all. > The B-12 is absorbed in the last (12 inches?) of the small intestine, and > with an ileo, many times part of that intestinal length is removed during > surgery. So, illeostomates cannot absorb and use swallowed B-12. > So the VA has taught me how to give myself B-12 shots on a monthly > schedule, > as they say that is the only way for me to get B-12, and that all > illeostomates should automatically be taking B-12 shots. > Just for your info—- > Best to you— > Ron > Terry Perrett <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> news:42611c34$0$94525$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >> Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would >> be >> better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any >> obvious >> signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an >> appointment! >> Thanks >> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >> > After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me > I >> > have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a > little >> > worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I > am >> a >> > vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but >> > I >> > cannot change this regime. >> > Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >> > Thanks for any help >> > terryp >> > terryp > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 – Release Date: 2/14/05

Response:

Hiya Terry; I posted a looonnnggg letter last night, explaining my situation and that’s one of the things I forgot to mention – I was/am anemic as well (no wonder, LOL) I had an ileostomy Jan 04, 2005 and alltoether was in hospital about 2 months, as, while I was in hospital, my spleen ruptured and had emerge ncy surgery and had blood transfusions 8 litres – that’s all the blood in the body – they said if I hadn’t already been in hospital, I would have been a goner for sure. Anyway, my dr. told me to take pre natal vitamins, because there’s more iron in them than anything else you can get, and I needed the magnesium – that with potassium and bunch of other stuff they were pumping into me in hosp. Anyway, it didn’t mess with my ileostomy – if you take this, you will probably have some pretty black stools for awhile, but that’s just from the iron. I hope it works for you if you decide to try it. dingaling "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp

Response:

Thanks to everyone who replied, been out of action and only just retrieved my mail. I will have a word with my GP regards iron and or B12 injections "karenf" <akbfTAKECAPS…@TOREPLYmindspring.com

wrote in message

news:8c5v61lrq5npb9tsmrterm244gsmjnvkni@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I know a number of people who use Nascobal gel once a week, versus having

a B12

injection once a month.  I have heard the gel works best when your levels

have

already been raised to normal by receiving the injections.  In February

this

year, Nastech Pharmaceutical Company Inc. ("Nastech") (Nasdaq: NSTK), a

leader

in drug delivery technology, announced the approval by the U.S. Food and

Drug

Administration (FDA) of Nascobal(R) (Cyanocobalamin, USP) Nasal Spray for

the

treatment of vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin) deficiency in patients with

pernicious

anemia, Crohn’s Disease, HIV/AIDS, and multiple sclerosis. I also have known some people use the sublinqual B12 tablets.  I am not

sure

what the tablets contain, but it is absorbed through the blood in the

tongue.

Many vegans use these or OTC oral or nasal B-12/folic acid sprays if they

are

concerned about a deficiency, particularly in children.  They work because

they

are absorbed through the mucosa, at the point of application, and don’t

pass

through the stomach. For several years, a couple of different times,  I took Contrin capsules,

which

would "cure" my anemia when years of iron supplements and an iron rich

diet and

iron injections wouldn’t. Contrin capsules are actually Iron/Vitamin C/Vitamin B12/Intrinsic Factor,

all

inside one capsule.  Apparently, for me, when taken with a full glass of

liquid,

they don’t really dissolve until they are well down the small intestine,

where

the combination allows the necessary bits to be absorbed.  Even though I

have an

ileostomy due to Crohn’s, I did not lose a lot of the terminal ileum area. If you don’t have luck with one way (or don’t like shots), I guess it is a

good

thing we have other options! KarenF. "C. Berlin" <cber…@pitt.edu wrote: There is another alternative, a nasal gel that also delivers B12 effectively, without having to give injections.  The manufacturer

recommends

application once per week.  I’ve used this product (Nascobal), and

monitored > >the result with serial B12 levels; use once every 8 weeks was more than > >sufficient to correct my mild ileostomy related B12 deficiency. > >Chuck B. > >"Ron G" <r…@gould.net

wrote in message

> >news:d4meaj0ju5@news4.newsguy.com… > >> Hi— > >> I am an illeostomate, and the Dr’s (multiple) say that swallowing B-12 > >> tablets will do no good at all. > >> The B-12 is absorbed in the last (12 inches?) of the small intestine, and

with an ileo, many times part of that intestinal length is removed

during > >> surgery. So, illeostomates cannot absorb and use swallowed B-12. > >> So the VA has taught me how to give myself B-12 shots on a monthly > >> schedule, > >> as they say that is the only way for me to get B-12, and that all > >> illeostomates should automatically be taking B-12 shots. > >> Just for your info—- > >> Best to you— > >> Ron > >> Terry Perrett <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> >> news:42611c34$0$94525$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… > >>> Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would > >>> be > >>> better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any > >>> obvious > >>> signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an > >>> appointment! > >>> Thanks > >>> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> >>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… > >>> > After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me

I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages

. I

am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish

but

I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 – Release Date: 2/14/05

Response:

There is another alternative, a nasal gel that also delivers B12 effectively, without having to give injections.  The manufacturer recommends application once per week.  I’ve used this product (Nascobal), and monitored the result with serial B12 levels; use once every 8 weeks was more than sufficient to correct my mild ileostomy related B12 deficiency. Chuck B. "Ron G" <r…@gould.net

wrote in message

news:d4meaj0ju5@news4.newsguy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi— > I am an illeostomate, and the Dr’s (multiple) say that swallowing B-12 > tablets will do no good at all. > The B-12 is absorbed in the last (12 inches?) of the small intestine, and > with an ileo, many times part of that intestinal length is removed during > surgery. So, illeostomates cannot absorb and use swallowed B-12. > So the VA has taught me how to give myself B-12 shots on a monthly > schedule, > as they say that is the only way for me to get B-12, and that all > illeostomates should automatically be taking B-12 shots. > Just for your info—- > Best to you— > Ron > Terry Perrett <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> news:42611c34$0$94525$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >> Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would >> be >> better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any >> obvious >> signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an >> appointment! >> Thanks >> "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

>> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… >> > After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me > I >> > have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a > little >> > worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I > am >> a >> > vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but >> > I >> > cannot change this regime. >> > Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? >> > Thanks for any help >> > terryp >> > terryp > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 – Release Date: 2/14/05

Response:

Hi— I am an illeostomate, and the Dr’s (multiple) say that swallowing B-12 tablets will do no good at all. The B-12 is absorbed in the last (12 inches?) of the small intestine, and with an ileo, many times part of that intestinal length is removed during surgery. So, illeostomates cannot absorb and use swallowed B-12. So the VA has taught me how to give myself B-12 shots on a monthly schedule, as they say that is the only way for me to get B-12, and that all illeostomates should automatically be taking B-12 shots. Just for your info—- Best to you— Ron Terry Perrett <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

news:42611c34$0$94525$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would be > better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any obvious > signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an > appointment! > Thanks > "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

> news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… > > After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I

have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a

little

worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I

am

a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.859 / Virus Database: 585 – Release Date: 2/14/05

Response:

Thanks Deano, will await the tests. Terryp "Deano" <d…@cogeco.ca

wrote in message

news:9Kh8e.13112$If1.3393247@read2.cgocable.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Terry Perrett wrote: Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would

be

better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any

obvious

signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an appointment! Thanks    Be prepared to go through a LOT of strange tests to verify the anemia.  I had to go through a battery of tests TWICE before they would say for sure that I lacked a certain enzyme in my system that is required to absorb iron at all.  Good luck. ;-Deano

Response:

Terry Perrett wrote:

Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would be better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any obvious signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an appointment! Thanks

   Be prepared to go through a LOT of strange tests to verify the anemia.  I had to go through a battery of tests TWICE before they would say for sure that I lacked a certain enzyme in my system that is required to absorb iron at all.  Good luck. ;-Deano

Response:

Thanks Deano I bought some B12 tablets today, probably injections would be better but I am waiting to see the specialist to see if I have any obvious signs of blood loss internally. Might be months though before I get an appointment! Thanks "Terry Perrett" <terry…@orlando188.force9.net

wrote in message

news:42603b5c$0$94539$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am

a

vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp

Response:

After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp

Response:

Terry Perrett wrote:

After having stoma surgery 14 years ago with no problems my GP tells me I have a problem with anaemia and has put me on iron tablets. I am a little worried they might cause me problems with constipation and blockages. I am a vegetarian so lose out on a lot of iron by not eating meat or fish but I cannot change this regime. Has anyone else any ideas how I can boost my iron intake? Thanks for any help terryp terryp

Terry — my Doc says that is is fairly common for ostomates to have iron deficiencies, and she put me on B-12 shots. But only after extensive testing to verify the anemia.  I find the b-12 also helps boost energy levels for me. Hope this helps. ;-Deano BTW – I was taking iron tablets regularly after this was first discovered, and they did not cause me undue constipation at all.

Response:

Question:

I have been on simvastatin(sp) for over ayear now due to high colesterol.  I have had no side effects at all so far.  I guess so far so good.  As far as help with the MS, I don’t really know.  I have had an ongoing mild exascerbation for quite awhile.  But not as severe as others in the past.  I am on Copaxone also.  So how do I figure out which is helping and which is hindering? On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:57:22 -0800, carole ford <cf…@ftconnect.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Gaylan, I had an increase in muscle pain with each of the statins. Hurting is bad enough without taking something that worsens it. Carole Ford Alex and Gaylan wrote: That is what is worrying me, Dory. I have been on Lipitor for less than two months, I am concerned about my cholesterol, but I don’t like the sound of the side effects.  So I am getting rather paranoid about it. Many, many people take these drugs for years without any problems. Gaylan <xdewdr…@webtv.net wrote in message news:26452-3A0DA7C9-43@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net… I was on one of the statins for over two years without ever realising that the increased muscle fatigue and pain were not due to my MS.  I kept complaining to my Neuro, over how heavy and weak my muscles were feeling along with stabbing pains. I collapsed twice in one week and was not able to use my muscles at all. At this point my Neuro, ask me about the meds I was on (he always does) but I had forgotten in the past to mention my Cholesterol med. He took me off of it and with in two weeks I was feeling much better. I have since tried two other kind of statins with the same results…. My Cholesterol is 300 and climbing;-(    dory

Response:

Has it helped with the cholesterol? Gaylan "Jack" <mug…@postoffice.ptd.net

wrote in message

news:3a0ffebf.13187412@news.ptd.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I have been on simvastatin(sp) for over ayear now due to high colesterol.  I have had no side effects at all so far.  I guess so far so good.  As far as help with the MS, I don’t really know.  I have had an ongoing mild exascerbation for quite awhile.  But not as severe as others in the past.  I am on Copaxone also.  So how do I figure out which is helping and which is hindering? On Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:57:22 -0800, carole ford <cf…@ftconnect.com wrote: Gaylan, I had an increase in muscle pain with each of the statins.

Hurting is

bad enough without taking something that worsens it. Carole Ford Alex and Gaylan wrote: That is what is worrying me, Dory. I have been on Lipitor for less than two months, I am concerned about

my > >> cholesterol, but I don’t like the sound of the side effects.  So I am > >> getting rather paranoid about it. > >> Many, many people take these drugs for years without any problems. > >> Gaylan > >> <xdewdr…@webtv.net

wrote in message

> >> news:26452-3A0DA7C9-43@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net… > >> > I was on one of the statins for over two years without ever realising > >> > that the increased muscle fatigue and pain were not due to my MS. > >> >  I kept complaining to my Neuro, over how heavy and weak my muscles were

feeling along with stabbing pains. I collapsed twice in one week and was not able to use my muscles at

all.

At this point my Neuro, ask me about the meds I was on (he always

does)

but I had forgotten in the past to mention my Cholesterol med. He took me off of it and with in two weeks I was feeling much better.

I

have since tried two other kind of statins with the same results….

My

Cholesterol is 300 and climbing;-(    dory

Response:

Gaylan, I had an increase in muscle pain with each of the statins. Hurting is bad enough without taking something that worsens it. Carole Ford – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alex and Gaylan wrote:

That is what is worrying me, Dory. I have been on Lipitor for less than two months, I am concerned about my cholesterol, but I don’t like the sound of the side effects.  So I am getting rather paranoid about it. Many, many people take these drugs for years without any problems. Gaylan <xdewdr…@webtv.net wrote in message news:26452-3A0DA7C9-43@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net… I was on one of the statins for over two years without ever realising that the increased muscle fatigue and pain were not due to my MS.  I kept complaining to my Neuro, over how heavy and weak my muscles were feeling along with stabbing pains. I collapsed twice in one week and was not able to use my muscles at all. At this point my Neuro, ask me about the meds I was on (he always does) but I had forgotten in the past to mention my Cholesterol med. He took me off of it and with in two weeks I was feeling much better. I have since tried two other kind of statins with the same results…. My Cholesterol is 300 and climbing;-(    dory

Response:

Maybe it’s another of those things which ""help"" by taking a brick to your metabolism in general.  Doesn’t sound like a long term cure does it, but certainly looks like research would be worthwhile. Curious how it helps, presumably it eliminates a class of fatty acid / lipid from the myelin sheath, lessening the autoimmune reaction.  Trouble is we need that lipid class for muscle and normal development. Roarke. "Alex and Gaylan" <alexandgay…@email.msn.com

wrote in message

news:TbWO5.93754$YG5.71172@tor-nn1.netcom.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Carmel, > After I read your reference below, I looked up Lipitor, which is another > cholesterol lowering drug, and which I have been taking for less than two > months.  The side effects are similar, especially the muscle breakdown. > Yikes, as though MS doesn’t cause enough problems.  Anyway, I expect to be > monitored to see if all is well.  Does make one wonder, though, why Zocor > might be helpful to MSers. > Gaylan > "Carmel" <car…@cyberwizards.com.au

wrote in message

> news:3A0B7CC7.F5A435A4@cyberwizards.com.au… > > This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug > > information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including > > muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to > > check it out. > > http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html > > Carmel > > Thomas Young wrote: > > > The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio) > Blade > > > Monday: > > > Cholesterol > > > drug Zocor > > > tested for > > > use on MS > > > KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE > > >     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re- > > >     searchers at the Medical Univer- > > >     sity of South Carolina are testing a > > >     popular cholesterol-lowering pill > > >     that may have power to stop the > > >     progression of multiple sclerosis. > > >     Clinical trials @ begin next > > >     month to determine whether > > >     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by > > >     20 million people worldwide, can > > >     relieve MS symptoms and stop the > > >     disease from worsening.  This > > >     degenerative nervous system dis- > > >     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide. > > >     Charleston researchers have > > >     shown that "statins" – a class of > > >     drugs including Zocor – reduce > > >     brain-damaging cell inflammation > > >     in rats. > > >     "This is an extremely promising > > >     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the > > >     Medical University of South > > >     Carolina.  He is the principal inves- > > >     tigator for the trial, which will be > > >     funded with a $1 million grant from > > >     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co. > > >     Multiple sclerosis patients are > > >     plagued by inflammatory cells that > > >     enter the brain and trigger the > > >     production of toxins, damaging the > > >     nerves’ protective coating, the > > >     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells > > >     lose their ability to transmit sig- > > >     nals between the brain and the > > >     rest of the body.  This can cause > > >     paralysis, blindness, and organ > > >     failure. > > >     Zocor would block the inflamma- > > >     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug > > >     uses a blocking mechanism to > > >     lower cholesterol as well, in- > > >     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho- > > >     lesterol from being removed from > > >     the body. > > >     The four existing multiple scle- > > >     rosis medications, one of which > > >     won FDA approval three weeks > > >     ago, must be taken by injection. > > >     Zocor would be taken in pill form. > > >     That will be a welcome change > > >     for some patients, said Anne Marie > > >     McDermott, president of the Mid- > > >     Atlantic Chapter of the National > > >     Multiple Sclerosis Society > > >     "As children we grow up with a > > >     fear of shots, and that really > > >     doesn’t change with adulthood," > > >     said Ms. McDermott, whose > > >     branch serves South Carolina and > > >     parts of North Carolina and Ten- > > >     nessee. > > >     Scientists do not know why mul- > > >     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers > > >     at the University of North > > >     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth > > >     Medical School last week received > > >     a $600,000 federal grant to study > > >     viruses’ involvement in the onset > > >     of the disease. > > >     The disease most often begins in > > >     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms > > >     include blurred or double vision, > > >     muscle weakness, and dizziness. > > >     Patients typically experience > > >     relapses and remissions, with each > > >     relapse causing further deteriora- > > >     tion. > > >     Zocor, whose chemical name is > > >     simvastatin, has potential for > > >     treating other diseases triggered > > >     by inflammation, Dr. Key said. > > >     They include stroke, spinal cord > > >     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease. > > >     Zocor is expected to cause far > > >     fewer side effects than existing > > >     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr. > > >     Key said.  It should be less expen- > > >     sive. > > — > > " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel. > >   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." > > web sites at: > > http://connect.to/carmel > > http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

I looked it up at http://www.rxlist.com and it says that those side effects are for drugs in that class of drug not necessarily for simvastatin (zocor).  BTW these side effects happen less than 1% of the time.  Look up any drug, and you will find all manner of strange stuff and warnings about it.  Hell, even Viagra has had a few deaths due to taking it as has tylenol.  I would take it anyway. rich – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Carmel wrote:

This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to check it out. http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html Carmel Thomas Young wrote: The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio) Blade Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive. — " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

I was on one of the statins for over two years without ever realising that the increased muscle fatigue and pain were not due to my MS.  I kept complaining to my Neuro, over how heavy and weak my muscles were feeling along with stabbing pains. I collapsed twice in one week and was not able to use my muscles at all. At this point my Neuro, ask me about the meds I was on (he always does) but I had forgotten in the past to mention my Cholesterol med. He took me off of it and with in two weeks I was feeling much better. I have since tried two other kind of statins with the same results…. My Cholesterol is 300 and climbing;-(    dory

Response:

That is what is worrying me, Dory. I have been on Lipitor for less than two months, I am concerned about my cholesterol, but I don’t like the sound of the side effects.  So I am getting rather paranoid about it. Many, many people take these drugs for years without any problems. Gaylan <xdewdr…@webtv.net

wrote in message

news:26452-3A0DA7C9-43@storefull-113.iap.bryant.webtv.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I was on one of the statins for over two years without ever realising that the increased muscle fatigue and pain were not due to my MS.  I kept complaining to my Neuro, over how heavy and weak my muscles were feeling along with stabbing pains. I collapsed twice in one week and was not able to use my muscles at all. At this point my Neuro, ask me about the meds I was on (he always does) but I had forgotten in the past to mention my Cholesterol med. He took me off of it and with in two weeks I was feeling much better. I have since tried two other kind of statins with the same results…. My Cholesterol is 300 and climbing;-(    dory

Response:

That’s what I wondered, too, Gaylan.  A lot of drugs seem to have, as potential side-effects, the very same things that they’re prescribed to fix.  I don’t understand why.  But I’d be interested to hear of your success or otherwise with Lipitor.  I don’t need cholesterol-lowering drugs, but am interested in their potential for MS.  Just nervous about these side-effects.   Carmel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Alex and Gaylan wrote:

Hi Carmel, After I read your reference below, I looked up Lipitor, which is another cholesterol lowering drug, and which I have been taking for less than two months.  The side effects are similar, especially the muscle breakdown. Yikes, as though MS doesn’t cause enough problems.  Anyway, I expect to be monitored to see if all is well.  Does make one wonder, though, why Zocor might be helpful to MSers. Gaylan "Carmel" <car…@cyberwizards.com.au wrote in message news:3A0B7CC7.F5A435A4@cyberwizards.com.au… This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to check it out. http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html Carmel Thomas Young wrote: The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio) Blade Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive. — " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

— " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

Hi Carmel, After I read your reference below, I looked up Lipitor, which is another cholesterol lowering drug, and which I have been taking for less than two months.  The side effects are similar, especially the muscle breakdown. Yikes, as though MS doesn’t cause enough problems.  Anyway, I expect to be monitored to see if all is well.  Does make one wonder, though, why Zocor might be helpful to MSers. Gaylan "Carmel" <car…@cyberwizards.com.au

wrote in message

news:3A0B7CC7.F5A435A4@cyberwizards.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to check it out. http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html Carmel Thomas Young wrote: The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio)

Blade

Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive. — " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to check it out. http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html Carmel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thomas Young wrote:

The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio) Blade Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive.

— " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

Scary stuff, Carmel.  Unhappily, those side effects are common with many drugs, which is one reason I try to avoid taking drugs.  I do have to take some meds, though. Gaylan "Carmel" <car…@cyberwizards.com.au

wrote in message

news:3A0B7CC7.F5A435A4@cyberwizards.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

This sounds hopeful, but be very careful.  I looked up the drug information, and found that Zocor can cause side-effects including muscle breakdown and central nervous system damage. Here’s a site to check it out. http://www.heartinfo.com/products/zocor/summary_pi/zocorpi.html Carmel Thomas Young wrote: The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio)

Blade

Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive. — " Don’t wait for a light to appear at the end of the tunnel.   Stride down there and light the bloody thing yourself." web sites at: http://connect.to/carmel http://welcome.to/jaragun.ginger

Response:

The following story appeared on the front page of The (Toledo Ohio) Blade Monday: Cholesterol drug Zocor tested for use on MS KNIGHT RIDDER NEWS SERVICE     CHARLESTON, S.C. – Re-     searchers at the Medical Univer-     sity of South Carolina are testing a     popular cholesterol-lowering pill     that may have power to stop the     progression of multiple sclerosis.     Clinical trials @ begin next     month to determine whether     Zocor, a cholesterol-buster used by     20 million people worldwide, can     relieve MS symptoms and stop the     disease from worsening.  This     degenerative nervous system dis-     ease afflicts 350,000 nationwide.     Charleston researchers have     shown that "statins" – a class of     drugs including Zocor – reduce     brain-damaging cell inflammation     in rats.     "This is an extremely promising     drug," said Dr. Lyndon Key of the     Medical University of South     Carolina.  He is the principal inves-     tigator for the trial, which will be     funded with a $1 million grant from     Zocor manufacturer Merck & Co.     Multiple sclerosis patients are     plagued by inflammatory cells that     enter the brain and trigger the     production of toxins, damaging the     nerves’ protective coating, the     myelin sheath.  Affected nerve cells     lose their ability to transmit sig-     nals between the brain and the     rest of the body.  This can cause     paralysis, blindness, and organ     failure.     Zocor would block the inflamma-     tion of cells, Dr. Key said.  The drug     uses a blocking mechanism to     lower cholesterol as well, in-     hibiting an enzyme that keeps cho-     lesterol from being removed from     the body.     The four existing multiple scle-     rosis medications, one of which     won FDA approval three weeks     ago, must be taken by injection.     Zocor would be taken in pill form.     That will be a welcome change     for some patients, said Anne Marie     McDermott, president of the Mid-     Atlantic Chapter of the National     Multiple Sclerosis Society     "As children we grow up with a     fear of shots, and that really     doesn’t change with adulthood,"     said Ms. McDermott, whose     branch serves South Carolina and     parts of North Carolina and Ten-     nessee.     Scientists do not know why mul-     tiple sclerosis strikes.  Researchers     at the University of North     Carolina-Charlotte and Dartmouth     Medical School last week received     a $600,000 federal grant to study     viruses’ involvement in the onset     of the disease.     The disease most often begins in     early adulthood.  Initial symptoms     include blurred or double vision,     muscle weakness, and dizziness.     Patients typically experience     relapses and remissions, with each     relapse causing further deteriora-     tion.     Zocor, whose chemical name is     simvastatin, has potential for     treating other diseases triggered     by inflammation, Dr. Key said.     They include stroke, spinal cord     trauma, and Alzheimer’s disease.     Zocor is expected to cause far     fewer side effects than existing     multiple sclerosis medications, Dr.     Key said.  It should be less expen-     sive.

Response:

Question:

Recently I posted the following: A few months back, after stopping Lipitor (muscle pain), I indicated that I would give Policosanol a try and report the results. After over two months on this medication I had a blood test yesterday and I will report the result in a week or so. It was notable that, as soon as I ceased taking Lipitor, my cholesterol level retured to the same level as before I started it about ten years ago. So it will be interesting……. I now have the blood test results and they show a 6% fall in cholesterol. This is enough to move me out of the danger zone. No noticeable side-effects. My doctor agrees I should stay with it and check again in six months. The product I am using is put up by Blackmores in Australia and I am taking the 5mg tabs at bedtime each night.

Response:

My post went to the wrong group – Google playing up. My problem with Lipitor was muscle pain.  I am unaware of any effect on hearing – I was diagnosed with profound loss before I started Lipitor. I cannot gauge whether my contiued hearing deterioration was affected by Lipitor. The group I meant to post to was sci.med.cardiology which has masses of stuff on Lipitor problems.

Response:

Question:

I’m wondering if anyone has had a similar experience.  I’m almost 50 and experiencing depression, perhaps for the first time in my life, at least to this degree.  The trigger might have been one of the drugs I was taking, Reglan, which can cause depression. Around mid-December, my sleep suddenly dropped to 3-4 hours per night, and that lasted for several weeks.  The effect on me was crushing.  I stopped the Reglan immediately when I learned of that side effect, but my sleep didn’t improve. I never had trouble falling asleep, just staying asleep.  I’d wake up 3 hours later, feeling like someone had pumped 100 cups of coffee (I’m decaffeinated) in to my veins while I was asleep.  I was so wired I sometimes paced for hours at a time.  I was wearing out my carpets. In trying to figure out what the cause was, I stopped all the various drugs and supplements I was taking.  Almost immediately, my sleep started to improve.  Virtually overnight, my sleep has jumped to 9-10 hours per night, also highly unusual for me.  My normal has always been 6-7 hours, so I’ve gone from one extreme to the other. At the same time, I visited the doctor and he put me on a mild anti-depressant, 10mg of Amitriptyline. I was taking a few drugs, Norvasc, Lipitor, Aciphex, and Nasonex.  I had stopped them individually, and my sleep suddenly improved when I stopped the Lipitor.  I was taking the Lipitor at bed time, so that made a certain sense, even though I’d taken it for a year without problems.  But sleep problems is not a known side effect of Lipitor, so my doctor doesn’t think much of that theory.  I’ve also restarted the Lipitor (80mg), this time taking it in the morning, and my sleep problems have not returned so far. But I’m still sleeping 9-10 hours per night.  My depression has improved, but it’s still affecting my life and mood. Anyone got any ideas on how or why sleep could drop to 3-4 hours per day for several weeks and then jump to 9-10 hours per night?  Can depression by itself cause that?  Anyone else had a bad experience with Lipitor? Thanks, Bruce.

Response:

I have been taking Lipitor for a few years and have experienced no sleep problems with it. I also take Norvasc with no difficulties. I have found that when i have trouble sleeping it is usually because i have something really bothering me on my mind. Especially something I am not looking forward to or something that is making me very angry/irritated. By the way, I’m 20 years older than you, kid. Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m wondering if anyone has had a similar experience.  I’m almost 50 and experiencing depression, perhaps for the first time in my life, at least to this degree.  The trigger might have been one of the drugs I was taking, Reglan, which can cause depression. Around mid-December, my sleep suddenly dropped to 3-4 hours per night, and that lasted for several weeks.  The effect on me was crushing.  I stopped the Reglan immediately when I learned of that side effect, but my sleep didn’t improve. I never had trouble falling asleep, just staying asleep.  I’d wake up 3 hours later, feeling like someone had pumped 100 cups of coffee (I’m decaffeinated) in to my veins while I was asleep.  I was so wired I sometimes paced for hours at a time.  I was wearing out my carpets. In trying to figure out what the cause was, I stopped all the various drugs and supplements I was taking.  Almost immediately, my sleep started to improve.  Virtually overnight, my sleep has jumped to 9-10 hours per night, also highly unusual for me.  My normal has always been 6-7 hours, so I’ve gone from one extreme to the other. At the same time, I visited the doctor and he put me on a mild anti-depressant, 10mg of Amitriptyline. I was taking a few drugs, Norvasc, Lipitor, Aciphex, and Nasonex.  I had stopped them individually, and my sleep suddenly improved when I stopped the Lipitor.  I was taking the Lipitor at bed time, so that made a certain sense, even though I’d taken it for a year without problems.  But sleep problems is not a known side effect of Lipitor, so my doctor doesn’t think much of that theory.  I’ve also restarted the Lipitor (80mg), this time taking it in the morning, and my sleep problems have not returned so far. But I’m still sleeping 9-10 hours per night.  My depression has improved, but it’s still affecting my life and mood. Anyone got any ideas on how or why sleep could drop to 3-4 hours per day for several weeks and then jump to 9-10 hours per night?  Can depression by itself cause that?  Anyone else had a bad experience with Lipitor? Thanks, Bruce.

Response:

I have been taking Lipitor for a few years and have experienced no sleep problems with it. I also take Norvasc with no difficulties. I have found that when i have trouble sleeping it is usually because i have something really bothering me on my mind. Especially something I am not looking forward to or something that is making me very angry/irritated.

I’m not sure if it was the same for you, but the emotions you mentioned usually means that I’ll have trouble falling asleep. In the problem I mentioned, I had no trouble falling asleep and was asleep mere minutes after I went to bed.  But I would always wake up 3-4 hour later, wired and unable to sit still for the rest of the morning.  I can’t remember anything that was bothering me, except for my inability to stay asleep. Very strange. Thanks, Bruce.

Response:

You don’t really forget, you just take more time to remember, right?

That too, but it’s more than just memory.  Concentration, attention, the ability to handle multiple tasks, problem solving, etc.  Just about every aspect of thinking.  But memory is a big problem.  I too often forget (fail to quickly recall) significant and memorable events of just a few weeks ago, sometimes just days. Now, if you just started noticing these same kind of effects in your life, they seem normal to me, then you worried about them and whether they indicated something worse, I could see depression developing slowly and without a triggering mechanism.

Again I’m having trouble with the chicken or the egg here.  You may be right on, I just don’t know.  But there is the worry about whether it might be a symptom of something worse. I suggest you do what I did.  Research the nature of how aging affects us "older" folks.  It is very interesting stuff.  We need to know this to keep up with our kids’ observations and to defend ourselves from their retorts.

Good idea, but while it would probably reassure me to know that all this might be normal, it might also amplify my concerns that I might not be able to continue to perform at the level expected in my current job. Now as to that trading places thing of yours.  We have too many here already.  So, when you make the trek, choose to arrive on Friday, say noon. Then decide to go from the L.A. Airport to someplace close, like Newport Beach.  On Saturday, when you finally get to N.B., send me an email about how enjoyable the stay was on our Freeways (should be Stopways).  Later I’ll let you in on a January 1 contract we have with God about good weather for our football fans on that day.  It just about ruined California from the time it went into effect.

What!?  The grass isn’t greener in California?  Seriously, I’d trade just about any set of problems for some warmer weather right now.  It’s weird.  I used to prefer winter over a hot summer but for whatever reason, this winter has been exceptionally bad for me. Bruce.

Response:

depression can cause sleeping problems, and sleeping problems can aggravate depression.  i find that with me it’s a circular kind of thing–when the depression gets worse, the sleeping patterns get more screwed up, which causes the depression to get worse, and so on.  i guess what i’m trying to say is that it can be difficult to know exactly what’s causing what. persephone – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try the walking thing.  It is not as boring as it sounds.  Meet lots of people this way, even in a city that mostly has automatic garage doors that let people in and out without visiting neighbors. Thanks for the advice.  I did walk daily (in the early am) for most of last summer, but stopped when the first snow buried all the sidewalks for the next 2 months.  Resuming that regimen is definitely on my high priority list. "No side effects for me." One additional factor is the amount of Lipitor I’m taking.  Because my untreated cholesterol is 355, I’m taking 80mg of Lipitor a day which I understand is pretty unusual. One big question I have is whether the lack of sleep caused the depression or the depression caused the lack of sleep. Anyway, I’m just trying to figure out what might have caused the stretch of abbreviated sleep and depression so I can avoid a repeat occurrence.  It sparked a major mid-life crisis I’m not anxious to repeat. Bruce.

Response:

I am getting the impression of concern over Alzheimer’s from your posts. Am I mistaken here?

I doubt that I have Alzheimer’s at my age, but I am concerned that SOMETHING atypical for my age is happening to me.  But I’m most concerned about the impact that might have on my ability to support and care for myself. Bruce.

Response:

depression can cause sleeping problems, and sleeping problems can aggravate depression.  i find that with me it’s a circular kind of thing–when the depression gets worse, the sleeping patterns get more screwed up, which causes the depression to get worse, and so on.

That certainly decribes my recent history.  I guess I may never know exactly what triggered this episode, which is frustrating because of the fear that it will return. Thanks, Bruce.

Response:

Try the walking thing.  It is not as boring as it sounds.  Meet lots of people this way, even in a city that mostly has automatic garage doors that let people in and out without visiting neighbors.

Thanks for the advice.  I did walk daily (in the early am) for most of last summer, but stopped when the first snow buried all the sidewalks for the next 2 months.  Resuming that regimen is definitely on my high priority list. "No side effects for me." One additional factor is the amount of Lipitor I’m taking.  Because my untreated cholesterol is 355, I’m taking 80mg of Lipitor a day which I understand is pretty unusual. One big question I have is whether the lack of sleep caused the depression or the depression caused the lack of sleep. Anyway, I’m just trying to figure out what might have caused the stretch of abbreviated sleep and depression so I can avoid a repeat occurrence.  It sparked a major mid-life crisis I’m not anxious to repeat. Bruce.

Response:

Sleep loss occurred first, thus depression could not have been its root cause.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure of that.  The sleep problem happened pretty suddenly, while I think the depression grew slowly, perhaps over 6-12 months.  So it’s hard for me to pin down which caused which. It is true that loss of sleep creates difficulty in reasoning skills.

Definitely true in my case.  But I also think the lack of sleep might have just agrivated a decrease in reasoning skills that’s been going on for a longer period of time.  Again, the change has been so slow and sutle, so I can’t pin an exact date to it.  How much of that is abnormal and how much is just part of the aging process is a big unknown to me. If sleep loss is not "cured" by catching up, then depression is a side effect.

My reasoning seems to have improved now that I’m sleeping better (though excessively), but I still have unexplained dumb periods when I feel like I need help tying my shoes.  My line of work requires a high degree of mental skills, and the dumb periods aren’t helping my self-confidence any.  It makes me question just how much longer I can be sucessful in my current job. Usual mid-life-crisis type stuf. For some, the removal of snow from the roof provides exercise not known to us poor Californians.  Come to think of it, you guys have it a lot better than we do.  I think I am making my self depressed.

I’d trade our midwest exercise for your year round good weather in a heartbeat! Thanks, Bruce.

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Question:

I’ll "uncloak" here and go on the record that my wife is the NA Regional Director for clinical studies of a major Pharmaco and my eldest daughter is the midwest senior CRA for the same company. Yes, I’m also a stockholder.

I’m sure your loved ones are good people and good employees.  However, it appears your opinion is not one based on unbiased research about drug studies but one based on your financial portfolio.   It is only prudent for a wise consumer to check and double check these medical studies and then make a decision if one wants to risk taking a particular drug. Mary

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Both the muscle weakness and the liver problems are caused by a side effect of the statins, they inhibit endogenous production of ubiquinone (coenzyme Q10).  This can be dangerous because the heart is one of the biggest users of coQ10.  Someone should tell the drug companies, you say?  Someone already has.  Merck  has had a patent on a combination of a statin and coQ10 for many years.  You’d think it would be on the market by now.  If not, you’d think most doctors would recommend supplementation. "A deficiency of coenzyme Q10 is associated with impairment of myocardial function, with liver dysfunction and with myopathies (including cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure). All patients taking HMG CoA reductase inhibitors should therefore be advised to take 100 to 200 mg per day of supplemental coenzyme Q10…Statin drugs work by blocking cellular production of cholesterol in the mevalonate pathway, but they also block CoQ10 production in that same pathway. Consumption of 100 to 200 mg per day of CoQ10 can reverse CoQ10 depletion induced by statins. Merck has obtained a patent for the combination of CoQ10 with statins in one prescription dose."

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/aug2002_legalnotes_01.html?SUBMI T2=Search –Hua Kul

Thanks for the info, Hua Kul, I knew what the statins did, but not why.  I suffered some rather nasty effects from one of these drugs. From what I’ve read about this, the ones who suffer serious cramping and muscles weakness are genetically rare, about 0.03%.  With a large proportion of the public now taking this group of drugs, the actual number affected is considered large enough to warrant concern.  But no mention was made re the CoQ10 in that discussion. Another interesting fact is that one of the main sources of Co-enzyme Q10 is red meat.  People worried about their cholesterol are often put on a no red meat diet along with the statin. Another poster mentioned that her father was taking a cholesterol absorbtion blocker. Now as I understand it, the body compensates for a low dietary level of cholesterol by making more itself.  I know lots of people who still won’t eat eggs, for the same reason – the cholesterol in them.  Yet I understand that it makes no difference to the actual lipid profiles. So far the only reasonable idea I’ve come across is the omega-3 factor.  That one does make sense.  Along with replacing saturated fats with monosaturated oils.  How hard is the FDA working on getting rid of trans-fats from the public diet, either? Forgive me, I’m finding some topics a bit of a downer tonight. First there were the bariatric operations, and now more pills for everyone.  Speaking of operations, one practice for treating high cholesterols was removing part of the large intestine, which apparently is involved in the internal production of cholesterol. I think I’ll quit while I’m ahead, and go to bed. Annette — Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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If this recommendation is taken up,  there will be people who will cheer and regard this as good news. The people who have shares in the pharmeceutical companies that make these drugs. Now I’m not against medications, they have their place, but what ever happened to "first do no harm"?  Mass drugging of "most" of the adult diabetic population? Sigh. Annette "Reality is a crutch for people who can’t cope with drugs."  Lily Tomlin.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Statin drugs touted for many diabetics    By EMMA ROSS, AP Medical Writer    (Published June 12′ 2003)    LONDON (AP) – Most adult diabetics should be taking    cholesterol-lowering drugs even if they have healthy cholesterol    levels and no evidence of heart disease, a major new study has    concluded.    The results, which found that statin drugs cut the risk of heart    attacks, strokes and the need for angioplasty or bypass surgery in    diabetics by one-third, emerge from the largest study ever to test the    power of statins.    Experts say the findings, published this week in The Lancet medical    journal, demand a change in current recommendations, which do not    advise statin therapy for diabetics unless cholesterol levels are    elevated.    Statins – sold under such brand names as Zocor, Pravachol, Lipitor,    Mevacor and Lescol – are taken by 25 million people worldwide at risk    of dying from heart disease. Diabetics do not generally receive    cholesterol-lowering therapy, although they have a particularly high    risk of heart trouble.    If the new findings are acted on, about 100 million diabetics    worldwide would become candidates for cholesterol-lowering treatment,    according to the researchers from Oxford University in England.    They estimated this could prevent about 1 million heart attacks,    strokes and angioplasty or bypass operations each year worldwide.    "This research proves that statins can offer real benefits to many    people with diabetes, helping them to avoid some of the    life-threatening complications of diabetes," said Simon O’Neill of    Diabetes UK, a patient advocacy group.    The study was partially financed by Merck & Co., which makes Zocor,    the statin used in the research.    In the study, 5,963 diabetics aged 40 or older and 14,573    non-diabetics with artery disease were randomly given either 40 mg of    Zocor or fake pills every day for five years. About 10,000 people were    allocated the drug and another 10,000 the fake tablets.    About 25 percent of people assigned the fake pills had a heart attack,    stroke or needed angioplasty or bypass surgery, compared with about 20    percent of those given the statins.    The study found that among both the diabetics and the non-diabetics    with artery problems, the risk of such problems was about one-quarter    lower in the people assigned statins than in those allocated the dummy    pills.    However, the investigators said the true benefit of statins was    underestimated by those calculations because some people assigned fake    pills ended up taking statins but were counted in the fake pill group,    diluting the real difference between the treatments.    "We can estimate that the benefit that we saw – a reduction of about    25 percent – is about two-thirds of what the effect of actually using    the tablets would be," said Dr. Jane Armitage, one of the study’s    investigators. She said the scientists estimated the true effect is a    one-third reduction in the risk of heart attacks, strokes or artery    operations.    About half the diabetics in the study had no evidence of heart    disease. About half had normal or below-average cholesterol levels.    Those patients seemed to benefit as much as the others, Armitage said.    "Statin therapy should now be considered routinely for all diabetic    patients at sufficiently high risk of major vascular events,    irrespective of their initial cholesterol concentrations," said    epidemiologist Rory Collins, the study’s leader.    Armitage said investigators stopped short of recommending statins for    all adult diabetics because for some people newly diagnosed in their    20s or 30s, the risk of heart trouble may not be so high.    Dr. Lars Lindholm, a professor of public health and clinical medicine    at Umea University in Sweden who was not connected with the research,    said the evidence from the study for such a recommendation was clear.    "One could even go a step further and ask whether all patients with    type II diabetes should be given a statin, regardless of their    cholesterol value," he said.

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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I’ve seen posts where Chung and Jai were talking to each other.  *L*  I know I had killfiled them both.  One or both must have changed ISPs again.  And let us not forget the Aspartame/Stevia bunch!

Depressing how the list grows  :-)

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I didnt know statins worsen neuropathy,  Does it give it to you if you dont have it,  I am on lipitor. Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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Besides, the "everyone should take statins" study was funded by the makers of Zocor, which makes me suspicious of its conclusions. It also seems to have been one of those statistical manipulation-type studies. I know for a fact that the cholesterol drug manufacturers suppress the studies that show bad things about their drugs, as I have friends who have been in such studies.

Unless you knew _everyone_ in the study and had correlated all of the data for submission to the FDA, you don’t know _JACK_! I’ll "uncloak" here and go on the record that my wife is the NA Regional Director for clinical studies of a major Pharmaco and my eldest daughter is the midwest senior CRA for the same company. Yes, I’m also a stockholder. I don’t mean to jump on you in particular Jenny but your statement, while heartfelt I’m sure, emanates from ignorance. Regards, James the Elder

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a new game Anytime someone is isulted by a Noni Scammer a Coloidial Silver scammer a BioDeath distributer A Manatech MLM’r "Dr" Jai Phildo the Dildo Canoe "2 pound" Chung I do know Roose is back in the groups.  We used to have a list somewhere.  Oh, and you forgot Ironman.

I’ve seen posts where Chung and Jai were talking to each other.  *L*  I know I had killfiled them both.  One or both must have changed ISPs again.  And let us not forget the Aspartame/Stevia bunch! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

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It’s good to be cynical at itmes, but you should keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies are responsible for funding more than 95% of these type of studies as well as more than 90% of non-surgical medical research in general.

And who would fund them otherwise? I seem to remember a few folk here complaining that Dr Atkins did not pay for studies for his diet. I guess we would rather our tax dollars go to testing every drug that comes out? Well maybe we could but then we would have to cancel the search for WMD

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Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO.

Who should pay for the study? I might be wrong but in the US the only other choice is the Govt. and they are to busy searching for WMD.

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Good point, Sue.   My father got that terrible muscle weakness from statin drugs and it even continued for a while after he stopped taking them.   I could have inherited his incompatability with those drugs.   I am not so sure I would want to take them either.  There is, on the other hand, a drug that BLOCKS the absorbtion of cholesterol, called Zetia, which my dad is now on.   I wonder if that might be better?

The problem with most people is not the cholesterol they ingest but the amount that their body produces on its own by the liver. I have a friend that was in the best of health, ran, biked and swam but had a heart attack. They found he had clogged arteries. He was a vegetarian! Dr. told him his body was just pumping out the cholesterol on its own. Now he is on Lipitor..

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I worry about the irreversible mental decline that some people report after taking statins. I have heard a doctor discuss this on the radio and say it is real. There are plenty of people who have posted online about suffering permanent cognitive damage from statins. I have definitely seen this side effect happen with an older family member who dimmed out considerably a few weeks after beginning statins. If you want to read a very well-researched book about how drug companies suppress information about problem with their products that are discovered after the drugs are approved read the book, "Bitter Pills." The author’s wife suffered permanent, irreversible brain damage from a floxin drug that has harmed hundreds, but  the manufacturers have used every trick they could to keep this side effect from being known since it "only" affects a very small percentage of people who take the drug. But it still keeps happening to people who take floxins-viz. the people treated for Anthrax exposure many of whom now report permanent neuro problems. The manufacturer blames them on the Anthrax, but the fact that there are hundreds of people who have taken this same drug for other diseases and have the same permanent side effect suggests they are lying. I suspect that the statins, like the floxins, ruin the lives of just a small enough population that the companies can get away with blaming the problem on their age or other health problems since people who takes statins usually have them. Since I have a long history of getting permanent, life-ruining "rare" side effects. I pass on the statins. My memory is already borderline. I really don’t need to spend the rest of my life in a nursing home. Besides, the "everyone should take statins" study was funded by the makers of Zocor, which makes me suspicious of its conclusions. It also seems to have been one of those statistical manipulation-type studies. I know for a fact that the cholesterol drug manufacturers suppress the studies that show bad things about their drugs, as I have friends who have been in such studies. — Jenny 168.5/140.5/138.5 Third Goal 9/1998 – 8/2001 and 11/10/02 – Now http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate your need for protein * How much people really lose each month *  Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for Hunger Cravings * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing Ketobreath * NEW! Exercise Starting from Zero

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My doc told me about taking the statin even if my chol was OK  My chol was a little above  borderline.  I had neurop in my feet and it has gotten MUCH better,  Still a little prob.  but nothing like before.  I have been on lipitor for 8 mos….    Just thought  I’d share my experience.  I have heard many people have probs. with Lipitor and pain…I seem to be OK Bless.  Memory They want me on a statin, too, but I’m worried about my liver.  Any ideas on this?  I had hep c.. and am very concerned about liver damage.. Linda Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

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Got a new game Anytime someone is isulted by a Noni Scammer a Coloidial Silver scammer a BioDeath distributer A Manatech MLM’r "Dr" Jai Phildo the Dildo Canoe "2 pound" Chung

I do know Roose is back in the groups.  We used to have a list somewhere.  Oh, and you forgot Ironman.

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I am probably the exception here, but I do not intend to let them ever put me on statin drugs.  I seem to be very sensitive to a lot of meds and have heard a lot of stories about liver damage and having to check the liver regularly, and muscle weakness.  One person even said they had permanent muscle damage.  With my  problems with meds, I figure I would be one that would have the problems. Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO. Sue S

Both the muscle weakness and the liver problems are caused by a side effect of the statins, they inhibit endogenous production of ubiquinone (coenzyme Q10).  This can be dangerous because the heart is one of the biggest users of coQ10.  Someone should tell the drug companies, you say?  Someone already has.  Merck  has had a patent on a combination of a statin and coQ10 for many years.  You’d think it would be on the market by now.  If not, you’d think most doctors would recommend supplementation. "A deficiency of coenzyme Q10 is associated with impairment of myocardial function, with liver dysfunction and with myopathies (including cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure). All patients taking HMG CoA reductase inhibitors should therefore be advised to take 100 to 200 mg per day of supplemental coenzyme Q10…Statin drugs work by blocking cellular production of cholesterol in the mevalonate pathway, but they also block CoQ10 production in that same pathway. Consumption of 100 to 200 mg per day of CoQ10 can reverse CoQ10 depletion induced by statins. Merck has obtained a patent for the combination of CoQ10 with statins in one prescription dose." http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/aug2002_legalnotes_01.html?SUBMIT… –Hua Kul

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got a new game Anytime someone is isulted by a Noni Scammer a Coloidial Silver scammer a BioDeath distributer A Manatech MLM’r "Dr" Jai Phildo the Dildo Canoe "2 pound" Chung they get a point The one with the most points wins Please feel free to suggust other scammers and flaming assholes to the list

Please add the smelly fish to the list.  It rates around the top three.  At least right up there with Fido. Linda Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

Got a new game Anytime someone is isulted by a Noni Scammer a Coloidial Silver scammer a BioDeath distributer A Manatech MLM’r "Dr" Jai Phildo the Dildo Canoe "2 pound" Chung they get a point The one with the most points wins Please feel free to suggust other scammers and flaming assholes to the list

Response:

I am probably the exception here, but I do not intend to let them ever put me on statin drugs.  I seem to be very sensitive to a lot of meds and have heard a lot of stories about liver damage and having to check the liver regularly, and muscle weakness.  One person even said they had permanent muscle damage.  With my  problems with meds, I figure I would be one that would have the problems. Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO. Sue S

Good point, Sue.   My father got that terrible muscle weakness from statin drugs and it even continued for a while after he stopped taking them.   I could have inherited his incompatability with those drugs.   I am not so sure I would want to take them either.  There is, on the other hand, a drug that BLOCKS the absorbtion of cholesterol, called Zetia, which my dad is now on.   I wonder if that might be better? Regards, Evelyn

Response:

I am probably the exception here, but I do not intend to let them ever put me on statin drugs.  I seem to be very sensitive to a lot of meds and have heard a lot of stories about liver damage and having to check the liver regularly, and muscle weakness.  One person even said they had permanent muscle damage.  With my  problems with meds, I figure I would be one that would have the problems. Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO. Sue S

Thanks Sue! You just strengthened my resolve NOT to take them!  I’m now doing Quentin’s high fiber flax meal breakfast everyday… my cholesterol WILL come down and WITHOUT statins! Thanks again!  I don’t need any  more liver damage!  And weak muscles??  No way!  I’m trying to BUILD muscle! Linda Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

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James… I agree with you, but I have a friend who is skeptical about the study because of the drug company involvement. I’d love to tell her the percentages you quote, but she won’t believe me unless she see’s it somewhere. Where did you get those numbers? Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO. It’s good to be cynical at itmes, but you should keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies are responsible for funding more than 95% of these type of studies as well as more than 90% of non-surgical medical research in general. Regards, James the Elder

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Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO.

It’s good to be cynical at itmes, but you should keep in mind that the pharmaceutical companies are responsible for funding more than 95% of these type of studies as well as more than 90% of non-surgical medical research in general. Regards, James the Elder

Response:

I am probably the exception here, but I do not intend to let them ever put me on statin drugs.  I seem to be very sensitive to a lot of meds and have heard a lot of stories about liver damage and having to check the liver regularly, and muscle weakness.  One person even said they had permanent muscle damage.  With my  problems with meds, I figure I would be one that would have the problems. Besides that, I have a problem putting too much faith in a study put out by the drug manufacturer. JMHO. Sue S

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Statin drugs touted for many diabetics    By EMMA ROSS, AP Medical Writer    (Published June 12′ 2003)    LONDON (AP) – Most adult diabetics should be taking    cholesterol-lowering drugs even if they have healthy cholesterol    levels and no evidence of heart disease, a major new study has    concluded.    The results, which found that statin drugs cut the risk of heart    attacks, strokes and the need for angioplasty or bypass surgery in    diabetics by one-third, emerge from the largest study ever to test the    power of statins.    Experts say the findings, published this week in The Lancet medical    journal, demand a change in current recommendations, which do not    advise statin therapy for diabetics unless cholesterol levels are    elevated.    Statins – sold under such brand names as Zocor, Pravachol, Lipitor,    Mevacor and Lescol – are taken by 25 million people worldwide at risk    of dying from heart disease. Diabetics do not generally receive    cholesterol-lowering therapy, although they have a particularly high    risk of heart trouble.    If the new findings are acted on, about 100 million diabetics    worldwide would become candidates for cholesterol-lowering treatment,    according to the researchers from Oxford University in England.    They estimated this could prevent about 1 million heart attacks,    strokes and angioplasty or bypass operations each year worldwide.    "This research proves that statins can offer real benefits to many    people with diabetes, helping them to avoid some of the    life-threatening complications of diabetes," said Simon O’Neill of    Diabetes UK, a patient advocacy group.    The study was partially financed by Merck & Co., which makes Zocor,    the statin used in the research.    In the study, 5,963 diabetics aged 40 or older and 14,573    non-diabetics with artery disease were randomly given either 40 mg of    Zocor or fake pills every day for five years. About 10,000 people were    allocated the drug and another 10,000 the fake tablets.    About 25 percent of people assigned the fake pills had a heart attack,    stroke or needed angioplasty or bypass surgery, compared with about 20    percent of those given the statins.    The study found that among both the diabetics and the non-diabetics    with artery problems, the risk of such problems was about one-quarter    lower in the people assigned statins than in those allocated the dummy    pills.    However, the investigators said the true benefit of statins was    underestimated by those calculations because some people assigned fake    pills ended up taking statins but were counted in the fake pill group,    diluting the real difference between the treatments.    "We can estimate that the benefit that we saw – a reduction of about    25 percent – is about two-thirds of what the effect of actually using    the tablets would be," said Dr. Jane Armitage, one of the study’s    investigators. She said the scientists estimated the true effect is a    one-third reduction in the risk of heart attacks, strokes or artery    operations.    About half the diabetics in the study had no evidence of heart    disease. About half had normal or below-average cholesterol levels.    Those patients seemed to benefit as much as the others, Armitage said.    "Statin therapy should now be considered routinely for all diabetic    patients at sufficiently high risk of major vascular events,    irrespective of their initial cholesterol concentrations," said    epidemiologist Rory Collins, the study’s leader.    Armitage said investigators stopped short of recommending statins for    all adult diabetics because for some people newly diagnosed in their    20s or 30s, the risk of heart trouble may not be so high.    Dr. Lars Lindholm, a professor of public health and clinical medicine    at Umea University in Sweden who was not connected with the research,    said the evidence from the study for such a recommendation was clear.    "One could even go a step further and ask whether all patients with    type II diabetes should be given a statin, regardless of their    cholesterol value," he said.

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My doc told me about taking the statin even if my chol was OK  My chol was a little above  borderline.  I had neurop in my feet and it has gotten MUCH better,  Still a little prob.  but nothing like before.  I have been on lipitor for 8 mos….    Just thought  I’d share my experience.  I have heard many people have probs. with Lipitor and pain…I seem to be OK Bless.  Memory

They want me on a statin, too, but I’m worried about my liver.  Any ideas on this?  I had hep c.. and am very concerned about liver damage.. Linda Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/

Response:

My doc told me about taking the statin even if my chol was OK  My chol was a little above  borderline.  I had neurop in my feet and it has gotten MUCH better,  Still a little prob.  but nothing like before.  I have been on lipitor for 8 mos….    Just thought  I’d share my experience.  I have heard many people have probs. with Lipitor and pain…I seem to be OK Bless.  Memory

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: : :    The results, which found that statin drugs cut the risk of heart :    attacks, strokes and the need for angioplasty or bypass surgery in :    diabetics by one-third, emerge from the largest study ever to test the :    power of statins. : : : Maybe.  But it’s also true that statins worsen neuropathy. : : can you cite any studies that indicate this?

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   The results, which found that statin drugs cut the risk of heart    attacks, strokes and the need for angioplasty or bypass surgery in    diabetics by one-third, emerge from the largest study ever to test the    power of statins.

                Maybe.  But it’s also true that statins worsen neuropathy.                                 E

Response:

   Statin drugs touted for many diabetics    By EMMA ROSS, AP Medical Writer    (Published June 12′ 2003)    LONDON (AP) – Most adult diabetics should be taking    cholesterol-lowering drugs even if they have healthy cholesterol    levels and no evidence of heart disease, a major new study has    concluded.    The results, which found that statin drugs cut the risk of heart    attacks, strokes and the need for angioplasty or bypass surgery in    diabetics by one-third, emerge from the largest study ever to test the    power of statins.    Experts say the findings, published this week in The Lancet medical    journal, demand a change in current recommendations, which do not    advise statin therapy for diabetics unless cholesterol levels are    elevated.    Statins – sold under such brand names as Zocor, Pravachol, Lipitor,    Mevacor and Lescol – are taken by 25 million people worldwide at risk    of dying from heart disease. Diabetics do not generally receive    cholesterol-lowering therapy, although they have a particularly high    risk of heart trouble.    If the new findings are acted on, about 100 million diabetics    worldwide would become candidates for cholesterol-lowering treatment,    according to the researchers from Oxford University in England.    They estimated this could prevent about 1 million heart attacks,    strokes and angioplasty or bypass operations each year worldwide.    "This research proves that statins can offer real benefits to many    people with diabetes, helping them to avoid some of the    life-threatening complications of diabetes," said Simon O’Neill of    Diabetes UK, a patient advocacy group.    The study was partially financed by Merck & Co., which makes Zocor,    the statin used in the research.    In the study, 5,963 diabetics aged 40 or older and 14,573    non-diabetics with artery disease were randomly given either 40 mg of    Zocor or fake pills every day for five years. About 10,000 people were    allocated the drug and another 10,000 the fake tablets.    About 25 percent of people assigned the fake pills had a heart attack,    stroke or needed angioplasty or bypass surgery, compared with about 20    percent of those given the statins.    The study found that among both the diabetics and the non-diabetics    with artery problems, the risk of such problems was about one-quarter    lower in the people assigned statins than in those allocated the dummy    pills.    However, the investigators said the true benefit of statins was    underestimated by those calculations because some people assigned fake    pills ended up taking statins but were counted in the fake pill group,    diluting the real difference between the treatments.    "We can estimate that the benefit that we saw – a reduction of about    25 percent – is about two-thirds of what the effect of actually using    the tablets would be," said Dr. Jane Armitage, one of the study’s    investigators. She said the scientists estimated the true effect is a    one-third reduction in the risk of heart attacks, strokes or artery    operations.    About half the diabetics in the study had no evidence of heart    disease. About half had normal or below-average cholesterol levels.    Those patients seemed to benefit as much as the others, Armitage said.    "Statin therapy should now be considered routinely for all diabetic    patients at sufficiently high risk of major vascular events,    irrespective of their initial cholesterol concentrations," said    epidemiologist Rory Collins, the study’s leader.    Armitage said investigators stopped short of recommending statins for    all adult diabetics because for some people newly diagnosed in their    20s or 30s, the risk of heart trouble may not be so high.    Dr. Lars Lindholm, a professor of public health and clinical medicine    at Umea University in Sweden who was not connected with the research,    said the evidence from the study for such a recommendation was clear.    "One could even go a step further and ask whether all patients with    type II diabetes should be given a statin, regardless of their    cholesterol value," he said.

Response:

Question:

I had some bloodwork done in September 00. My liver function was ok, and I had already been on Lipitor for about more than 2 months. Never had any problems with my previous meds. before, neither. However, this muscular pain worries me, and I will stay off Lipitor for a while, and see what happens. Will talk to my doc about it when I next visit him. I have previous episodes of almost "blacking out", when I consumed alcohol (beer or wine) when I was on my diabetic med. of Euglucon and Glucophage, though. Has anyone had this problem before? I would almost feel like fainting, but if I laid flat on the floor, the "black-out" sensation would go away. A doctor told me that my liver was clearing out the alcohol fast enough, and that it was kinda "poisoning" me. I have since stayed from all and any amounts of alcohol. But is this any indication of liver problems? Thanks for any advice, and feedback, guys and gals. Dano – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had basicly the same problem with Lipitor. What I did was, I went off it for about a week and a half.  Then back on.  But, after having the tests with my doctor, my liver #’s were up, so we dropped the lipitor. I’d drop it for a week, and see if you return to normal.  Also, tell your doctor, so he/she knows what you’ve been experiencing. Steve Hi, everyone. I am a T2, and have been now for slightly more than 10 years. Control is so-so, but I do have a bad diet sometimes, and tend to overeat, and do crave some sweet things sometimes!! I was on Euglucon and Glucophage when I was in Malaysia, but doctors here in the US have put me on Glucotrol and Glucophage. I think it’s working about the same as my previous meds. I was put on 2 new meds recently, though. Lipitor for my high cholestrol. It was 288 a few months back, but it’s back down to 170 now, and I hope to keep it there. I was also put on Accupril (ACE Inhibitor) to protect my kidneys, brain and heart, my doctors say. It’s funny but doctors in Malaysia never do that, but I’m learning a lot more here in the US. So far so good, and no problems or severe affects since I was put on the meds, starting July 2000. The last 2 days, however, I have been feeling bad muscular aches on the left side of my body, and I can’t imagine what was causing it, and how it got there. I remember the ad on TV that says muscular aches could be a side-effect of Lipitor, and we must tell our doctors if it happens. Anybody has any such experience. Would be glad to hear your story, and your advice, if you will, please. Thank you kindly. Dan C, Ms. "A little goes a long way … Meaning, " A little help from you … Will go a long way to helping me understand. Thanks, everyone."

Thank you kindly. Dan C, Ms. "A little goes a long way … Meaning, " A little help from you … Will go a long way to helping me understand. Thanks, everyone."

Response:

I had basicly the same problem with Lipitor. What I did was, I went off it for about a week and a half.  Then back on.  But, after having the tests with my doctor, my liver #’s were up, so we dropped the lipitor. I’d drop it for a week, and see if you return to normal.  Also, tell your doctor, so he/she knows what you’ve been experiencing. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone. I am a T2, and have been now for slightly more than 10 years. Control is so-so, but I do have a bad diet sometimes, and tend to overeat, and do crave some sweet things sometimes!! I was on Euglucon and Glucophage when I was in Malaysia, but doctors here in the US have put me on Glucotrol and Glucophage. I think it’s working about the same as my previous meds. I was put on 2 new meds recently, though. Lipitor for my high cholestrol. It was 288 a few months back, but it’s back down to 170 now, and I hope to keep it there. I was also put on Accupril (ACE Inhibitor) to protect my kidneys, brain and heart, my doctors say. It’s funny but doctors in Malaysia never do that, but I’m learning a lot more here in the US. So far so good, and no problems or severe affects since I was put on the meds, starting July 2000. The last 2 days, however, I have been feeling bad muscular aches on the left side of my body, and I can’t imagine what was causing it, and how it got there. I remember the ad on TV that says muscular aches could be a side-effect of Lipitor, and we must tell our doctors if it happens. Anybody has any such experience. Would be glad to hear your story, and your advice, if you will, please. Thank you kindly. Dan C, Ms. "A little goes a long way … Meaning, " A little help from you … Will go a long way to helping me understand. Thanks, everyone."

Response:

With all the stuff you’re on (especially the Lipitor) you do need to see a doctor.  Lipitor can cause liver problems, and the first symptom is muscle pain and weakness.  A blood test will be done to measure certain liver enzymes to see if that’s the problem.  If you can’t get the test done quickly, I’d suggest dropping the Lipitor for a week and seeing what happens.  You *don’t* want liver failure! — Dave Stampe, Ph.D. (EE & Cog Sci) Type 1, 25+ yr, pump+humalog, food allergies Compl: 2xPRP laser, kidney, tendonitis Last Hb1Ac: 5.2  (6.0 typical)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, everyone. I am a T2, and have been now for slightly more than 10 years. Control is so-so, but I do have a bad diet sometimes, and tend to overeat, and do crave some sweet things sometimes!! I was on Euglucon and Glucophage when I was in Malaysia, but doctors here in the US have put me on Glucotrol and Glucophage. I think it’s working about the same as my previous meds. I was put on 2 new meds recently, though. Lipitor for my high cholestrol. It was 288 a few months back, but it’s back down to 170 now, and I hope to keep it there. I was also put on Accupril (ACE Inhibitor) to protect my kidneys, brain and heart, my doctors say. It’s funny but doctors in Malaysia never do that, but I’m learning a lot more here in the US. So far so good, and no problems or severe affects since I was put on the meds, starting July 2000. The last 2 days, however, I have been feeling bad muscular aches on the left side of my body, and I can’t imagine what was causing it, and how it got there. I remember the ad on TV that says muscular aches could be a side-effect of Lipitor, and we must tell our doctors if it happens. Anybody has any such experience. Would be glad to hear your story, and your advice, if you will, please. Thank you kindly. Dan C, Ms. "A little goes a long way … Meaning, " A little help from you … Will go a long way to helping me understand. Thanks, everyone."

Response:

Hi, everyone. I am a T2, and have been now for slightly more than 10 years. Control is so-so, but I do have a bad diet sometimes, and tend to overeat, and do crave some sweet things sometimes!! I was on Euglucon and Glucophage when I was in Malaysia, but doctors here in the US have put me on Glucotrol and Glucophage. I think it’s working about the same as my previous meds. I was put on 2 new meds recently, though. Lipitor for my high cholestrol. It was 288 a few months back, but it’s back down to 170 now, and I hope to keep it there. I was also put on Accupril (ACE Inhibitor) to protect my kidneys, brain and heart, my doctors say. It’s funny but doctors in Malaysia never do that, but I’m learning a lot more here in the US. So far so good, and no problems or severe affects since I was put on the meds, starting July 2000. The last 2 days, however, I have been feeling bad muscular aches on the left side of my body, and I can’t imagine what was causing it, and how it got there. I remember the ad on TV that says muscular aches could be a side-effect of Lipitor, and we must tell our doctors if it happens. Anybody has any such experience. Would be glad to hear your story, and your advice, if you will, please. Thank you kindly. Dan C, Ms. "A little goes a long way … Meaning, " A little help from you … Will go a long way to helping me understand. Thanks, everyone."

Response:

Question:

Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Hmm.  That sticker used to be on one of mine.  It think it may have been Atenolol (blood pressure medication).  But it’s not on my current bottle. Jude —                  - Coming Soon –  BestOrgs.NET         Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Hi Scott I was told not to eat it when taking my Lipitor for my Cholesterol but I can have it later after the meds. Di — May You Live Today By How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Grapefruit is contraindicated with Lipitor. It interferes with the uptake, but isn’t dangerous. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Grapefruit is contraindicated with Lipitor. It interferes with the uptake, but isn’t dangerous. Jim

I bet it was my Zocor.  I’m not taking that currently. Jude Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

–                  - Coming Soon –  BestOrgs.NET         Oak Park, IL  708-848-0134  URL: http://www.pobox.com/~jcrouch

Response:

Glybruide 20 mg  diabetes Monopril 20 mg  blood pressure Adalat 90 mg  blood pressure

Response:

Zocor has a warning sticker that says it can’t be taken with grapefruit. W.G.

Response:

Scott it shouldn’t hurt eating grapefruit with those. But on the web there is a site I think it is www.rx.list  Don’t know it that is right but it will tell you. Love Di — May You Live Today By How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Glybruide 20 mg  diabetes Monopril 20 mg  blood pressure Adalat 90 mg  blood pressure

Response:

My recollection was that it was found to interfere with some heart meds, but I don’t remember which ones.  Check with a pharmacist. Carol P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Zocor has a warning sticker that says it can’t be taken with grapefruit. W.G.

I have taken Zocor for 5 years.  I always get it from one of two sources: 1) the Walgreen pharmacy down the street, or 2) Merck-Medco Rx Services through the mail.  I have never seen a warning against taking it with grapefruit.   I never see the pamphlet from the manufacturer, Merck, included in my medicine.  There are two warnings on my current bottle of Zocor:        1) DO NOT use with alcohol or non-prescribed drugs without consulting the   prescribing practitioner.        2) Do not take this drug if you become PREGNANT. I have never paid much attention to the latter warning, thinking I would have much *greater* problems than drug efficacy should that symptom occur. ) Best wishes, Charles Evans

Response:

Scott my mother’s zocor says do not take with grapefruit juice….that’s the only time I’ve ever seen that on a medication.  Hope this helps Lina

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

I think it would be easier to pay attention to what foods might interact with the meds you are taking than to worry how many meds might be affected by grapefruit, because you have to worry about all meds that way instead of just a few. Carol

Response:

Jim Thanks for the information about the grapefruit juice.  My husband and I were just talking yesterday about which pill you werent supposed to have grapefruit juidce and we couldnt remember.  You answerd the questioln and he is on lipitor. Thanks again Loretta

Response:

I’d have to disagree with Jim on this one. According to the company literature Lipitor is contraindicated: In patients with hypersensitivity to any component of the medication In patients with active liver disease In patients with unexplained persistent elevations of serum transaminases During pregnancy While breast feeding In women of child bearing potential not using appropriate contraceptives. One of the meds that does interact with grapefruit juice is felodipine – a calcium channel blocker for hypertension. A much safer alternative is amlodipine – which has no known drug or food interactions. Regards Carl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grapefruit is contraindicated with Lipitor. It interferes with the uptake, but isn’t dangerous. Jim Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Lipitor (atorvastatin) is an HMG CoA reductase inhibitor, like simvastatin and lovastatin. Taking it with grapefruit juice greatly increases its plasma levels short term. Here are a couple of cites: Jim 1 : Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Nov;64(5):477-83                        Grapefruit juice-simvastatin interaction: effect on serum concentrations of simvastatin, simvastatin                        acid, and HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors.                        Lilja JJ, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, and Helsinki University Central Hospital, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Simvastatin is a cholesterol-lowering agent that is metabolized through CYP3A4. We studied the effect of                        grapefruit juice on the pharmacokinetics of orally administered simvastatin. METHODS: In a randomized, 2-phase crossover                        study, 10 healthy volunteers took either 200 mL double-strength grapefruit juice or water 3 times a day for 2 days. On day 3,                        each subject ingested 60 mg simvastatin with either 200 mL grapefruit juice or water, and an additional 200 mL was ingested 1/2                        and 1 1/2 hours after simvastatin administration. Serum concentrations of simvastatin and simvastatin acid were measured by                        liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS-MS) and those of active (naive) and total (after hydrolysis)                        3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors by a radioenzyme inhibition assay. RESULTS:                        Grapefruit juice increased the mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of unchanged simvastatin about 9-fold (range, 5.1-fold to                        31.4-fold; P < .01) and the mean area under the serum simvastatin concentration-time curve [AUC(0-infinity)] 16-fold (range,                        9.0-fold to 37.7-fold; P < .05). The mean Cmax and AUC(0-infinity) of simvastatin acid were both increased about 7-fold (P <                        .01). Grapefruit juice increased the mean AUC(0-infinity) of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors 2.4-fold (P < .01)                        and 3.6-fold (P < .01), respectively. The time of the peak concentration of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors was                        increased by grapefruit juice (P < .05). CONCLUSION: Grapefruit juice greatly increased serum concentrations of simvastatin                        and simvastatin acid and, to a lesser extent, those of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors. The probable mechanism                        of this interaction was inhibition of CYP3A4-mediated first-pass metabolism of simvastatin by grapefruit juice in the small                        intestine. Concomitant use of grapefruit juice and simvastatin, at least in large amounts, should be avoided, or the dose of                        simvastatin should be greatly reduced.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Clinical trial, phase ii                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9834039, UI: 99049785 —- 2. Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Mar;63(4):397-402                        Grapefruit juice greatly increases serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid.                        Kantola T, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Grapefruit juice increases the bioavailability of several drugs known to be metabolized by CYP3A4. We                        wanted to investigate a possible interaction of grapefruit juice with lovastatin, a cholesterol-lowering agent that is partially                        metabolized by CY P3A4. METHODS: An open, randomized, two-phase crossover study with an interval of 2 weeks between                        the phases was carried out. Ten healthy volunteers took either 200 ml double-strength grapefruit juice or water orally three times                        a day for 2 days. On day 3, each subject ingested 80 mg lovastatin with either 200 ml grapefruit juice or water, and an additional                        dose of 200 ml was ingested 1/2 and 1 1/2 hours after lovastatin intake. Serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid                        were measured up to 12 hours. RESULTS: Grapefruit juice greatly increased the serum concentrations of both lovastatin and                        lovastatin acid. The mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of lovastatin was increased about 12-fold (range, 5.2-fold to                        19.7-fold; p < 0.001) and the area under the concentration-time curve [AUC(0-12)] was increased 15-fold (range, 5.7-fold to                        26.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice. The mean Cmax and AUC(0-12) of lovastatin acid were increased about fourfold                        (range, 1.8-fold to 11.5-fold; p < 0.001) and fivefold (range, 2.4-fold to 23.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice, respectively.                        The half-lives of lovastatin and lovastatin acid remained unchanged. CONCLUSIONS: Grapefruit juice can greatly increase                        serum concentrations of lovastatin and its active metabolite, lovastatin acid, probably by preventing CYP3A4-mediated first-pass                        metabolism in the small intestine. The concomitant use of grapefruit juice with lovastatin and simvastatin should be avoided, or the                        dose of these 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitors should be reduced accordingly.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9585793, UI: 98246885

Response:

Carl,  I thought the report I read said one of the calcium channel blockers but wasn’t sure which one..Thanks jacquie

I’d have to disagree with Jim on this one. According to the company literature Lipitor is contraindicated: In patients with hypersensitivity to any component of the medication In patients with active liver disease In patients with unexplained persistent elevations of serum transaminases During pregnancy While breast feeding In women of child bearing potential not using appropriate contraceptives. One of the meds that does interact with grapefruit juice is felodipine – a calcium channel blocker for hypertension. A much safer alternative is amlodipine – which has no known drug or food interactions. Regards Carl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grapefruit is contraindicated with Lipitor. It interferes with the uptake, but isn’t dangerous. Jim Does grapefruit interfere with medications?  I seem to remember reading somewhere that it does with certain ones.

Response:

Dear Jim, atorvastatin (Lipitor) is indeed a statin – similar to simvastatin. However, it is metabolised by a different Cytochrome enzyme and therefore is not affected by grapefruit juice Regards Carl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lipitor (atorvastatin) is an HMG CoA reductase inhibitor, like simvastatin and lovastatin. Taking it with grapefruit juice greatly increases its plasma levels short term. Here are a couple of cites: Jim 1 : Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Nov;64(5):477-83                        Grapefruit juice-simvastatin interaction: effect on serum concentrations of simvastatin, simvastatin                        acid, and HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors.                        Lilja JJ, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, and Helsinki University Central Hospital, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Simvastatin is a cholesterol-lowering agent that is metabolized through CYP3A4. We studied the effect of                        grapefruit juice on the pharmacokinetics of orally administered simvastatin. METHODS: In a randomized, 2-phase crossover                        study, 10 healthy volunteers took either 200 mL double-strength grapefruit juice or water 3 times a day for 2 days. On day 3,                        each subject ingested 60 mg simvastatin with either 200 mL grapefruit juice or water, and an additional 200 mL was ingested 1/2                        and 1 1/2 hours after simvastatin administration. Serum concentrations of simvastatin and simvastatin acid were measured by                        liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS-MS) and those of active (naive) and total (after hydrolysis)                        3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors by a radioenzyme inhibition assay. RESULTS:                        Grapefruit juice increased the mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of unchanged simvastatin about 9-fold (range, 5.1-fold to                        31.4-fold; P < .01) and the mean area under the serum simvastatin concentration-time curve [AUC(0-infinity)] 16-fold (range,                        9.0-fold to 37.7-fold; P < .05). The mean Cmax and AUC(0-infinity) of simvastatin acid were both increased about 7-fold (P <                        .01). Grapefruit juice increased the mean AUC(0-infinity) of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors 2.4-fold (P < .01)                        and 3.6-fold (P < .01), respectively. The time of the peak concentration of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors was                        increased by grapefruit juice (P < .05). CONCLUSION: Grapefruit juice greatly increased serum concentrations of simvastatin                        and simvastatin acid and, to a lesser extent, those of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors. The probable mechanism                        of this interaction was inhibition of CYP3A4-mediated first-pass metabolism of simvastatin by grapefruit juice in the small                        intestine. Concomitant use of grapefruit juice and simvastatin, at least in large amounts, should be avoided, or the dose of                        simvastatin should be greatly reduced.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Clinical trial, phase ii                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9834039, UI: 99049785 —- 2. Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Mar;63(4):397-402                        Grapefruit juice greatly increases serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid.                        Kantola T, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Grapefruit juice increases the bioavailability of several drugs known to be metabolized by CYP3A4. We                        wanted to investigate a possible interaction of grapefruit juice with lovastatin, a cholesterol-lowering agent that is partially                        metabolized by CY P3A4. METHODS: An open, randomized, two-phase crossover study with an interval of 2 weeks between                        the phases was carried out. Ten healthy volunteers took either 200 ml double-strength grapefruit juice or water orally three times                        a day for 2 days. On day 3, each subject ingested 80 mg lovastatin with either 200 ml grapefruit juice or water, and an additional                        dose of 200 ml was ingested 1/2 and 1 1/2 hours after lovastatin intake. Serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid                        were measured up to 12 hours. RESULTS: Grapefruit juice greatly increased the serum concentrations of both lovastatin and                        lovastatin acid. The mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of lovastatin was increased about 12-fold (range, 5.2-fold to                        19.7-fold; p < 0.001) and the area under the concentration-time curve [AUC(0-12)] was increased 15-fold (range, 5.7-fold to                        26.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice. The mean Cmax and AUC(0-12) of lovastatin acid were increased about fourfold                        (range, 1.8-fold to 11.5-fold; p < 0.001) and fivefold (range, 2.4-fold to 23.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice, respectively.                        The half-lives of lovastatin and lovastatin acid remained unchanged. CONCLUSIONS: Grapefruit juice can greatly increase                        serum concentrations of lovastatin and its active metabolite, lovastatin acid, probably by preventing CYP3A4-mediated first-pass                        metabolism in the small intestine. The concomitant use of grapefruit juice with lovastatin and simvastatin should be avoided, or the                        dose of these 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitors should be reduced accordingly.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9585793, UI: 98246885

Response:

Maybe someone should tell my Pharmacist and my doctor that they must be behind the times. Di — May You Live Today By How You Want To Be Remembered Tomorrow – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Jim, atorvastatin (Lipitor) is indeed a statin – similar to simvastatin. However, it is metabolised by a different Cytochrome enzyme and therefore is not affected by grapefruit juice Regards Carl Lipitor (atorvastatin) is an HMG CoA reductase inhibitor, like simvastatin and lovastatin. Taking it with grapefruit juice greatly increases its plasma levels short term. Here are a couple of cites: Jim 1 : Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Nov;64(5):477-83                        Grapefruit juice-simvastatin interaction: effect on serum concentrations of simvastatin, simvastatin                        acid, and HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors.                        Lilja JJ, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, and Helsinki University Central Hospital, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Simvastatin is a cholesterol-lowering agent that is metabolized through CYP3A4. We studied the effect of                        grapefruit juice on the pharmacokinetics of orally administered simvastatin. METHODS: In a randomized, 2-phase crossover                        study, 10 healthy volunteers took either 200 mL double-strength grapefruit juice or water 3 times a day for 2 days. On day 3,                        each subject ingested 60 mg simvastatin with either 200 mL grapefruit juice or water, and an additional 200 mL was ingested 1/2                        and 1 1/2 hours after simvastatin administration. Serum concentrations of simvastatin and simvastatin acid were measured by                        liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS-MS) and those of active (naive) and total (after hydrolysis)                        3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A (HMG-CoA) reductase inhibitors by a radioenzyme inhibition assay. RESULTS:                        Grapefruit juice increased the mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of unchanged simvastatin about 9-fold (range, 5.1-fold to                        31.4-fold; P < .01) and the mean area under the serum simvastatin concentration-time curve [AUC(0-infinity)] 16-fold (range,                        9.0-fold to 37.7-fold; P < .05). The mean Cmax and AUC(0-infinity) of simvastatin acid were both increased about 7-fold (P <                        .01). Grapefruit juice increased the mean AUC(0-infinity) of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors 2.4-fold (P < .01)                        and 3.6-fold (P < .01), respectively. The time of the peak concentration of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors was                        increased by grapefruit juice (P < .05). CONCLUSION: Grapefruit juice greatly increased serum concentrations of simvastatin                        and simvastatin acid and, to a lesser extent, those of active and total HMG-CoA reductase inhibitors. The probable mechanism                        of this interaction was inhibition of CYP3A4-mediated first-pass metabolism of simvastatin by grapefruit juice in the small                        intestine. Concomitant use of grapefruit juice and simvastatin, at least in large amounts, should be avoided, or the dose of                        simvastatin should be greatly reduced.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Clinical trial, phase ii                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9834039, UI: 99049785 —- 2. Clin Pharmacol Ther 1998 Mar;63(4):397-402                        Grapefruit juice greatly increases serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid.                        Kantola T, Kivisto KT, Neuvonen PJ                        Department of Clinical Pharmacology, University of Helsinki, Finland.                        BACKGROUND: Grapefruit juice increases the bioavailability of several drugs known to be metabolized by CYP3A4. We                        wanted to investigate a possible interaction of grapefruit juice with lovastatin, a cholesterol-lowering agent that is partially                        metabolized by CY P3A4. METHODS: An open, randomized, two-phase crossover study with an interval of 2 weeks between                        the phases was carried out. Ten healthy volunteers took either 200 ml double-strength grapefruit juice or water orally three times                        a day for 2 days. On day 3, each subject ingested 80 mg lovastatin with either 200 ml grapefruit juice or water, and an additional                        dose of 200 ml was ingested 1/2 and 1 1/2 hours after lovastatin intake. Serum concentrations of lovastatin and lovastatin acid                        were measured up to 12 hours. RESULTS: Grapefruit juice greatly increased the serum concentrations of both lovastatin and                        lovastatin acid. The mean peak serum concentration (Cmax) of lovastatin was increased about 12-fold (range, 5.2-fold to                        19.7-fold; p < 0.001) and the area under the concentration-time curve [AUC(0-12)] was increased 15-fold (range, 5.7-fold to                        26.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice. The mean Cmax and AUC(0-12) of lovastatin acid were increased about fourfold                        (range, 1.8-fold to 11.5-fold; p < 0.001) and fivefold (range, 2.4-fold to 23.3-fold; p < 0.001) by grapefruit juice, respectively.                        The half-lives of lovastatin and lovastatin acid remained unchanged. CONCLUSIONS: Grapefruit juice can greatly increase                        serum concentrations of lovastatin and its active metabolite, lovastatin acid, probably by preventing CYP3A4-mediated first-pass                        metabolism in the small intestine. The concomitant use of grapefruit juice with lovastatin and simvastatin should be avoided, or the                        dose of these 3-hydroxy-3-methylglutaryl coenzyme A reductase inhibitors should be reduced accordingly.                        Publication Types:                             Clinical trial                             Randomized controlled trial                        PMID: 9585793, UI: 98246885

Response:

Carl, Interesting information, and not apparent from the Parke-Davis PI data. It is also interesting that my bottle of Lipitor always has a sticker warning about taking it with grapefruit juice. According to my pharmacist (a friend), the information comes from a commercial drug interactions database as part of their Rx processing software. He has no idea that the database is wrong, nor any idea how it can be corrected. Nor much interest in doing so. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Jim, atorvastatin (Lipitor) is indeed a statin – similar to simvastatin. However, it is metabolised by a different Cytochrome enzyme and therefore is not affected by grapefruit juice Regards Carl

Response:

I have no scientific information to add to this thread. Only thing I was told no grapefruit juice with Lipitor.  Dont know why but not to do it. And I had to stop taking Lipitor when I went on Prandin. A vicious cycle

Response:

Question:

Stuff like this needs to be shared with the media… it’s shameful that medical costs are so high!  Sorry this happened to you… Linda.. also without insurance..

I don’t know if this could help you or not, but it’s worth a try … http://www.needymeds.com/IndexText.html Carol — Type 2, dx May 15,1995 Glucophage XR Low Carb Eating Plan Stretching Exercises and Walking

Response:

Hi there Diana, It’s great to see you posting again. I’ve missed you. Here is a few of the things I use as Low or No Carb snacks. Like yourself, I cannot eat very much in the way of carb dense foods, I spike very easily from foods that others have no trouble with.  I also have limited mobility, though for different reasons to yourself. Berries – especially strawberries. Nuts –  most kinds – only a handful, and I avoid peanuts and cashews, which do tend to cause me weight gain.  So do macadamias (my favourite), due to the high oil content,  but I *can* get away with about 6 of them. Cold chicken (say, just a wing or a small drumstick). Cold "hot dogs"  (just one). Cheese Pate  (you can eat it with a spoon, or use celery or slices of cucumber to put it on.) Avocadoes with prawns and a dressing. (1/2 an avocado is usually enough). Asparagus rolled inside a thin slice of ham. Now,  with the exception of the berries, most of these still have measurable calories.  I usually go at least 4hrs between meals, but use the above to "carry me over", if for some reason the meal is delayed, or as a supper before bed.  None of them give me a spike. Remember, keep the portions fairly small  - it is *only* a snack, not a meal!  It’s easy to be tempted, when one is hungry! All the best, Annette

Response:

Stuff like this needs to be shared with the media… it’s shameful that medical costs are so high!  Sorry this happened to you… Linda.. also without insurance..

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused.

Response:

Hi Memory ! Yes it sure is a life change. My families idea of celebrating anything is going out to eat. I have dieted before and have done very well. When I met my husband nine years ago I lost almost 100 pounds in four months and then the back injury that laid me up for three years with steroids and heavy sedatives and muscle relaxers and all that stuff I gained it all back and then some. Then on routine physical to establish new patient the bomb was dropped. That was four years ago and I am just now taking it to heart. I want to lose weight so bad it hurts. I want to enjoy my grandson before he grows up and I want to look good before I am too old to care. I also have the goal of being medication free. I hope to accomplish it by the end of this year at least. I have to deprive myself of foods I like most because if I don’t I go to 300 plus in numbers. I am eating things I hate just to stay in some decent control. But the determination I have is larger than the want for the good food LOL. We can do this, and we will overcome the odds in all this. Thanks Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana,  You have been given some snack ideas–I do the popcorn thing….I have found- -unfortunately– in all honesty….The more you stick to your meal plan  you will finally feel a little better about  having to do without.  I know I hear how yes you can have this and that…  Well, I discovered I can’t have this and that or I will put on the weight!   I need to lose another 30 lbs.   It is not just a meal plan watching my BGS.  It is a weight loss, too and that is the hardest.   My BGS are 99.9% under control.  The Dr.  said they are in non-diabetic range.   Yet,  I can’t even feel good about eating things I like unless the portion is very small . The recipes that are usually given I have found quite often are a joke.  The servings sizes are miniscule!!!  But, I must deprive myself or I put on the weight.    I have discovered I just need to accept this FACT!  AND, most often I can live with it.  And more often it is getting better..    I LOVE to eat.  I have been doing very well.  I fixed ham Mon.  and I really pigged out.  I hadn’t gone that overboard in 7 months!!!   So, I am getting back on track.  I actually played kickball with the kids at school.  This 56 yr old fat, menopausal diabetic woman kicked butt and the kickball.  I played again today and hope to do it every day!!  I am in awe that I can!!!!   The changes must become lifestyle.  I understand that you have more physical limiting  things going on.  BUT, you just need to do what you  can and feel good about each bit of progress. There just isn’t any easy way  nor non-deprivational way to do it IMHO!!  I have said it before…I was born to suffer!  But, I haven’t felt this physically well in a LONG time.  Nor, have I  enjoyed getting into nice looking clothes.  There  is a pay-off somewhere down the line for all of us but it will not be without work and deprivation. AND of course the biggest pay-off is better health.  I do get my fried chicken once in a while.  I have a niggling idea that someday I may be able to have a handful of Fritos, p. chips, CAKE….but I don’t think so at this time.  I don’t think I ever will.   I can make it to my goal weight but I could gain it all back so easily.  This MUST be lifestyle changes for me. I think I can live with it.  The alternative is to die from not!!!!!   It has gotten better!  Best to you!  Memory

Response:

Thanks Jan ! ! I just happen to have bought all three things today. I will give it a try. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been eating radishes and jello in the daytime. I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. I long for real food LOL but none for me yet. I guess I am getting use to eating things I never thought I would. Fish and veggies. I was a meat and tater woman LOL my figure proves that too. Di Hi Di, Don’t know if this will work for you but it has for me. Sometimes I make a "salad" of chopped hard-boiled eggs, solid white tuna, steamed broccoli, mixed with lite mayo. It’s very filling and keeps a few days so you can have just a few spoonsfull. Jan.

Response:

I have been eating radishes and jello in the daytime. I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. I long for real food LOL but none for me yet. I guess I am getting use to eating things I never thought I would. Fish and veggies. I was a meat and tater woman LOL my figure proves that too. Di

Hi Di, Don’t know if this will work for you but it has for me. Sometimes I make a "salad" of chopped hard-boiled eggs, solid white tuna, steamed broccoli, mixed with lite mayo. It’s very filling and keeps a few days so you can have just a few spoonsfull. Jan.

Response:

Mmmmm still working on the bunny eggs my daughter colored LOL never thought of deviled, I love em. Thanks ! Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? Make some hardboiled eggs or deviled eggs and keep them in the fridge. — Ronnie   Registered Linux User #277529 http://counter.li.org   There is no place like /home

Response:

Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining?

Make some hardboiled eggs or deviled eggs and keep them in the fridge. — Ronnie   Registered Linux User #277529 http://counter.li.org   There is no place like /home                        

Response:

Thanks Julie, I do like pickles and will have to look for those. Diana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been eating radishes and jello in the daytime. I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. I long for real food LOL but none for me yet. I guess I am getting use to eating things I never thought I would. Fish and veggies. I was a meat and tater woman LOL my figure proves that too. I’ve recently found some pickles that I just love!  They’re called half sour.  They are in the refrigerated section.  I got some in a restaurant and loved them.  I’m not normally a pickle (or cucumber) lover either.  But these taste really good!  They’re neither sweet nor sour.  Just yummy! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

No haven’t tried that. I have looked for it though because I saw someone talk about it. I was eating rye which is 13 carb per slice but even it makes my bg go out of whack. I am finding it very hard to know what to eat that is good because things like all fruits, breads, cereals, potatoes send me overboard. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. Have you tried the reduced carb bread by Nature’s Own?  It’s a Sunbeam product, and it has approx 1/2 the carbs of white bread.  I think one slice is 7 carbs as opposed to 12 or 13 for white bread.  I can’t check as I don’t buy white bread anymore. The reduced carb bread has an interesting texture, kind of stretchy and chewy, but it’s still BREAD Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.

Response:

I have been eating radishes and jello in the daytime. I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. I long for real food LOL but none for me yet. I guess I am getting use to eating things I never thought I would. Fish and veggies. I was a meat and tater woman LOL my figure proves that too.

I’ve recently found some pickles that I just love!  They’re called half sour.  They are in the refrigerated section.  I got some in a restaurant and loved them.  I’m not normally a pickle (or cucumber) lover either.  But these taste really good!  They’re neither sweet nor sour.  Just yummy! — Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Response:

Hi Sleepy ! ! My weight started out at 307. Have a pic if you want me to send it to you In the beginning the doc put me on 1200 cal but I never followed it. I chose such a low cal because I am very sedentary due to my back and leg pain. I would say 50 % of my leg pain is from my back injury and for the first three years after my injury I was so heavily sedated that I never got out of bed making my muscles get very weak. The other I contribute to the Lipitor and so did the doc and I had a CPK which was 465 and the normal was suppose to be 27-134   and my Sed Rate was 62 with the normal suppose to be 0-30.  I don’t know what it is now. That test was done one year ago. My pain is most heaviest in the hip and thigh area. My back is very weak and has about 13 bulging disc, 5 lower discs are desiccation, bilateral neural foraminal narrowing , facet hypertrophy, and all that good stuff. I was diagnosed at the time of my back injury of Myofacial Pain meaning the slimy stuff around the muscles get hard and causes mobility problems and very painful to move at all. So that is why I don’t exercise much but am trying to walk more often. I sure do miss the 7 miles a day I once walked before getting hurt. Sorry, didn’t mean to sound like I was telling all my woe’s If I hear of any good snacks I sure will let you know. I lurk around in the low carb ng hoping to see something I can eat but no luck so far. Thanks and take good care. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds Excellent Diana! I have a couple of questions/comments in the text. Hi everyone, Haven’t posted regarding my diabetes in a while but thought I would catch the ones who know me up to date. Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused. My Bun and Creat are great thank God ! !  I was worried because of the constant back pain in my kidney area on the left. My liver is within normal limits too and I was also concerned over that because of the pain and nausea in that area. God is blessing me with helping me to heal. I will begin Zetia for the cholesterol.  Anyone on this and how does it do for you? I read a bit and it says not to take it if you have muscle weakness and stuff so I am leery but will try it. Three weeks ago I was put on 500 mg Glucophage XR and 10 mg Glucotrol XL and both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY I don’t know how much you weigh, but it seems to me that 1000-1200 cals/day is kinda severe. 13 lbs loss sounds great, but in 3 weeks? I just hope you are not putting your health at risk by losing that fast. I am going in Friday for an Asthma teaching for a special inhaler and also I have to go back on my HHN breathing treatments for the COPD and gee never smoked in my 52 long years of life and gosh oh gee what I have to do LOL. Well Jim H, since I went to a 10 Hba1c do I have to give my 7 % trophy back?    I promise to do better Well that is about it for me. My only complaint is this doggone back and leg pain that just won’t give up. OH yea forgot an important part. I use to only be able to walk about five feet before sitting down and resting then trying again and I am now up to almost 1/2 mile about every other day. Is your pain in your calf muscles? Does it seem like you can walk about the same distance each time, before you have to stop and rest? You might want to check out this link if any of it sounds familiar: http://www.heartcanada.com/claudication.php Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? If you hear of something, let me know too! Take Care, Sleepy According to Christianity Today, Bush told a Baptist congregation in

Houston, TX, that he "believed that he had been chosen by God to be a good steward of the nation."

Response:

Diana,  You have been given some snack ideas–I do the popcorn thing….I have found- -unfortunately– in all honesty….The more you stick to your meal plan  you will finally feel a little better about  having to do without.  I know I hear how yes you can have this and that…  Well, I discovered I can’t have this and that or I will put on the weight!   I need to lose another 30 lbs.   It is not just a meal plan watching my BGS.  It is a weight loss, too and that is the hardest.   My BGS are 99.9% under control.  The Dr.  said they are in non-diabetic range.   Yet,  I can’t even feel good about eating things I like unless the portion is very small .  The recipes that are usually given I have found quite often are a joke.  The servings sizes are miniscule!!!  But, I must deprive myself or I put on the weight.    I have discovered I just need to accept this FACT!  AND, most often I can live with it.  And more often it is getting better..    I LOVE to eat.  I have been doing very well.  I fixed ham Mon.  and I really pigged out.  I hadn’t gone that overboard in 7 months!!!   So, I am getting back on track.  I actually played kickball with the kids at school.  This 56 yr old fat, menopausal diabetic woman kicked butt and the kickball.  I played again today and hope to do it every day!!  I am in awe that I can!!!!   The changes must become lifestyle.  I understand that you have more physical limiting  things going on.  BUT, you just need to do what you  can and feel good about each bit of progress. There just isn’t any easy way  nor non-deprivational way to do it IMHO!!  I have said it before…I was born to suffer!  But, I haven’t felt this physically well in a LONG time.  Nor, have I  enjoyed getting into nice looking clothes.  There  is a pay-off somewhere down the line for all of us but it will not be without work and deprivation. AND of course the biggest pay-off is better health.  I do get my fried chicken once in a while.  I have a niggling idea that someday I may be able to have a handful of Fritos, p. chips, CAKE….but I don’t think so at this time.  I don’t think I ever will.   I can make it to my goal weight but I could gain it all back so easily.  This MUST be lifestyle changes for me.  I think I can live with it.  The alternative is to die from not!!!!!   It has gotten better!  Best to you!  Memory

Response:

I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike.

Have you tried the reduced carb bread by Nature’s Own?  It’s a Sunbeam product, and it has approx 1/2 the carbs of white bread.  I think one slice is 7 carbs as opposed to 12 or 13 for white bread.  I can’t check as I don’t buy white bread anymore. The reduced carb bread has an interesting texture, kind of stretchy and chewy, but it’s still BREAD Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

Response:

Hey Louise, How the hell have you been doing? Sleepy Diana, sorry to hear of your difficulties, but it’s good to hear that you are getting back on track.  I had the same problem with lipitor and had to go on zocor.  As far as food suggestions, I eat raw veggies all day long also…after almost 3 years, I’m not tired of them yet.  But I’ll be interested if others have any other suggestions. And going from walking 5 feet to 1/2 mile…that’s nothing sort of awesome! What an accomplishment! Good to hear from you, Diana.  Keep up the good work!

According to Christianity Today, Bush told a Baptist congregation in Houston, TX, that he "believed that he had been chosen by God to be a good steward of the nation."

Response:

have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining?

Darn! And here I was ready with the raw veges spiel Di, sorry your last weeks weren’t crash hot but big congrats on what you have achieved in the last 3 weeks.  Meanwhile I’ll try to think outside raw veges

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I have been eating radishes and jello in the daytime. I long for a slice of bread but even the rye makes me spike. I long for real food LOL but none for me yet. I guess I am getting use to eating things I never thought I would. Fish and veggies. I was a meat and tater woman LOL my figure proves that too. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? Darn! And here I was ready with the raw veges spiel Di, sorry your last weeks weren’t crash hot but big congrats on what you have achieved in the last 3 weeks.  Meanwhile I’ll try to think outside raw veges

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Sounds Excellent Diana! I have a couple of questions/comments in the text. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Haven’t posted regarding my diabetes in a while but thought I would catch the ones who know me up to date. Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused. My Bun and Creat are great thank God ! !  I was worried because of the constant back pain in my kidney area on the left. My liver is within normal limits too and I was also concerned over that because of the pain and nausea in that area. God is blessing me with helping me to heal. I will begin Zetia for the cholesterol.  Anyone on this and how does it do for you? I read a bit and it says not to take it if you have muscle weakness and stuff so I am leery but will try it. Three weeks ago I was put on 500 mg Glucophage XR and 10 mg Glucotrol XL and both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY

I don’t know how much you weigh, but it seems to me that 1000-1200 cals/day is kinda severe. 13 lbs loss sounds great, but in 3 weeks? I just hope you are not putting your health at risk by losing that fast. I am going in Friday for an Asthma teaching for a special inhaler and also I have to go back on my HHN breathing treatments for the COPD and gee never smoked in my 52 long years of life and gosh oh gee what I have to do LOL. Well Jim H, since I went to a 10 Hba1c do I have to give my 7 % trophy back?    I promise to do better Well that is about it for me. My only complaint is this doggone back and leg pain that just won’t give up. OH yea forgot an important part. I use to only be able to walk about five feet before sitting down and resting then trying again and I am now up to almost 1/2 mile about every other day.

Is your pain in your calf muscles? Does it seem like you can walk about the same distance each time, before you have to stop and rest? You might want to check out this link if any of it sounds familiar: http://www.heartcanada.com/claudication.php Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining?

If you hear of something, let me know too! Take Care, Sleepy According to Christianity Today, Bush told a Baptist congregation in Houston, TX, that he "believed that he had been chosen by God to be a good steward of the nation."

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Hi Cheri ! ! I am not much for beef jerky but I have been eating slim jims at times and small pepperoni snack sticks. Some days I don’t think of food and others I feel I am going to keel over LOL but so far so good. I did go off my diet for Easter but it was right back to the grindstone Monday morning. Thanks and I sure will try to succeed this time around. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Diana, I’m sorry you are going through a tough time, but you’ve been through tough times before, and I know you can get a handle on it. I like beef jerky for a quick snack, or a handful of almonds, or a single serving of string cheese. Congrats on the weight loss, and keep up the good work. ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) Cheri both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY

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I sure hope it drops. I just gotta have a 5 % club sticker LOL. Thanks for all your help. You know what I mean. Had it not been for you it may have been more than 10. Di

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana, Congratulations to you for taking control and working it, girl!! Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.

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Thanks Louise ! ! !  Walking is really painful but I plan on overcoming it. I have been on SSD for about five years now from back injuries and have Myofacial Pain 24/7 and the lipitor added to it. But……I am a survivor and will conquer this. (I hope) Thanks again. Diana

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Diana, sorry to hear of your difficulties, but it’s good to hear that you are getting back on track.  I had the same problem with lipitor and had to go on zocor.  As far as food suggestions, I eat raw veggies all day long also…after almost 3 years, I’m not tired of them yet.  But I’ll be interested if others have any other suggestions. And going from walking 5 feet to 1/2 mile…that’s nothing sort of awesome! What an accomplishment! Good to hear from you, Diana.  Keep up the good work! — Best wishes Louise Type 2, controlling by diet and exercise Hi everyone, Haven’t posted regarding my diabetes in a while but thought I would catch the ones who know me up to date. Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused. My Bun and Creat are great thank God ! !  I was worried because of the constant back pain in my kidney area on the left. My liver is within normal limits too and I was also concerned over that because of the pain and nausea in that area. God is blessing me with helping me to heal. I will begin Zetia for the cholesterol.  Anyone on this and how does it do for you? I read a bit and it says not to take it if you have muscle weakness and stuff so I am leery but will try it. Three weeks ago I was put on 500 mg Glucophage XR and 10 mg Glucotrol XL and both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY I am going in Friday for an Asthma teaching for a special inhaler and also I have to go back on my HHN breathing treatments for the COPD and gee never smoked in my 52 long years of life and gosh oh gee what I have to do LOL. Well Jim H, since I went to a 10 Hba1c do I have to give my 7 % trophy back?    I promise to do better Well that is about it for me. My only complaint is this doggone back and leg pain that just won’t give up. OH yea forgot an important part. I use to only be able to walk about five feet before sitting down and resting then trying again and I am now up to almost 1/2 mile about every other day. Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? Big Hugs to all Diana

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Hi Diana, I’m sorry you are going through a tough time, but you’ve been through tough times before, and I know you can get a handle on it. I like beef jerky for a quick snack, or a handful of almonds, or a single serving of string cheese. Congrats on the weight loss, and keep up the good work. ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))) Cheri – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY

Response:

Diana, Congratulations to you for taking control and working it, girl!! Bev Remove the "SpamFree" for email, please.  

Response:

Diana, sorry to hear of your difficulties, but it’s good to hear that you are getting back on track.  I had the same problem with lipitor and had to go on zocor.  As far as food suggestions, I eat raw veggies all day long also…after almost 3 years, I’m not tired of them yet.  But I’ll be interested if others have any other suggestions. And going from walking 5 feet to 1/2 mile…that’s nothing sort of awesome! What an accomplishment! Good to hear from you, Diana.  Keep up the good work! — Best wishes Louise Type 2, controlling by diet and exercise

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi everyone, Haven’t posted regarding my diabetes in a while but thought I would catch the ones who know me up to date. Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused. My Bun and Creat are great thank God ! !  I was worried because of the constant back pain in my kidney area on the left. My liver is within normal limits too and I was also concerned over that because of the pain and nausea in that area. God is blessing me with helping me to heal. I will begin Zetia for the cholesterol.  Anyone on this and how does it do for you? I read a bit and it says not to take it if you have muscle weakness and stuff so I am leery but will try it. Three weeks ago I was put on 500 mg Glucophage XR and 10 mg Glucotrol XL and both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY I am going in Friday for an Asthma teaching for a special inhaler and also I have to go back on my HHN breathing treatments for the COPD and gee never smoked in my 52 long years of life and gosh oh gee what I have to do LOL. Well Jim H, since I went to a 10 Hba1c do I have to give my 7 % trophy back?    I promise to do better Well that is about it for me. My only complaint is this doggone back and leg pain that just won’t give up. OH yea forgot an important part. I use to only be able to walk about five feet before sitting down and resting then trying again and I am now up to almost 1/2 mile about every other day. Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? Big Hugs to all Diana

Response:

Hi everyone, Haven’t posted regarding my diabetes in a while but thought I would catch the ones who know me up to date. Went to see the doc today for lab results. When diagnosed four years ago my Hba1c was 7.1 and three weeks ago it jumped to a 10  ! ! ! !  It had never left the 7 range until I went without medicine for three months due to the outrageous cost of it with no insurance paying. My cholesterol is high again too since going off the lipitor due to the muscle damage it caused. My Bun and Creat are great thank God ! !  I was worried because of the constant back pain in my kidney area on the left. My liver is within normal limits too and I was also concerned over that because of the pain and nausea in that area. God is blessing me with helping me to heal. I will begin Zetia for the cholesterol.  Anyone on this and how does it do for you? I read a bit and it says not to take it if you have muscle weakness and stuff so I am leery but will try it. Three weeks ago I was put on 500 mg Glucophage XR and 10 mg Glucotrol XL and both are a God send. I also went on Lantus 20u at 10 p.m. a night and that too is a God send. My numbers are down from 400-500 all the way to 140 and below now and that includes PP readings. I have also been dieting on a lower carb of about 30 carbs daily and 1000-1200 calories per day for the last three weeks and it has resulted in a 13 pound weight loss ! HORAAAYYYYYY I am going in Friday for an Asthma teaching for a special inhaler and also I have to go back on my HHN breathing treatments for the COPD and gee never smoked in my 52 long years of life and gosh oh gee what I have to do LOL. Well Jim H, since I went to a 10 Hba1c do I have to give my 7 % trophy back?    I promise to do better Well that is about it for me. My only complaint is this doggone back and leg pain that just won’t give up. OH yea forgot an important part. I use to only be able to walk about five feet before sitting down and resting then trying again and I am now up to almost 1/2 mile about every other day. Take care all and thanks for letting me share. One of these days I will be a pro and able to help someone else but I can still never repay all the help I have already received from all of you. One more thing please ???  I am mainly a snacker as I find it hard to stand and cook something for myself in the day time so does anyone have any low carb suggestions beside raw vegetables that might be filling yet not weight gaining? Big Hugs to all Diana

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