Question:

I.P., The margarine I use is "Olivio" which is mostly mono fats (made with olive,  canola and soybean oils).  I add it to the tomato juice because they said the lycopene works best if it is taken with some oil. The tomato juice is heated to a boil in the microwave so I am actually having tomato soup!                   —MIKE—

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

   Nothing works for removing cancer of the prostate other than removing it, killing the prostate tissue, or starving it. NOTHING….. — JK Sinrod Sinrod Stained Glass Studios www.sinrodstudios.com Coney Island Memories www.sinrodstudios.com/coneymemories

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There is a pendulum swinging out there somewhere.. When I had my LRP surgery,3 long years ago, the theme of the month was to blame milk and red meat (and genetics, of course).  We were getting prostate cancer because we were drinking too much milk – calcium overdose was to blame.  Now calcium is in again? Who knows? There are many suggestions out there for those who are trying to ward off PCa but few that apply to those of us trying to improve the odds of evading a recurrence. I do think a list of "Can’t hurt and might help" Vs. "Can’t help and might hurt" Vs. "Try at your own risk" over the counter supplements/activities etc., an interesting addition to the literature for those of us how are post-primary treatment. Salmon is supposed to be good as of course are red wine, cooked tomatoes and vitamin E (oops – look out for the pendulum!) . – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No dietary or herbal alternatives have been shown effective in any clinical trials. But cooked tomato products, acidifying the lymphatic system with a little extra calcium intake, and cutting WAY back on saturated animal fats are folk remedies that should do no harm (unless the calcium is overdone). The wait and watch aproach is now widely condemned except in specific cases, mostly in people with short life expectation (maybe <a decade, maybe < 15 years). Are you in that category? I.P. We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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I hope that margarine is a very small amount. Those trans-fatty acids are baaaaad stuff. I.P. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I drink tomato juice (heated with margarine added) every day,

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Alan, I will be 75 next week.  I will be seeing my urologist again this coming Monday (yearly visit).  I plan to ask him if he recommends a bone scan.  As far as hormones go, he wouldn’t recommend them unless my PSA got up to 10.  It seems to me that the most important thing to watch is the PSA doubling rate.  Mine never exceeded 24 months and the last time (September) it actually dropped slightly.  I think most people AND doctors are too quick to panic and start hormones. The side effects are too great – especially what they do to the bones.  I already have osteopenia and am taking Fosamax.  I can’t afford to have my bones weaken more than they already have.  At any rate, I plan to continue my diet and supplement regimen – it can’t hurt!                   —MIKE—

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… I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs …

Keith, One of the things I always like to say to people doing watchful waiting is, Make sure you’re watching, and not just waiting.  If the PSA starts accellerating upward, you want to know about it at an early stage of the accelleration, not after it’s gotten out of control. How often is your doctor prescribing PSA tests? Thanks,     Alan

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Any of the "preventative" approaches could prevent or slow down the spread of any cancer remaining after treatment.  I had seeds about 6 years ago and my PSA was slowly rising until it got up to 3.3 where it seems to be staying.

Mike, How long have you been at 3.3? I drink tomato juice (heated with margarine added) every day, Put ground flaxseed on my high fiber cereal (with soy milk) every morning and take as supplements: Gamma E with selenium, Boron, Licorice, Magnesium, C, D, Calcium, B complex plus a multi vitamin (without iron).  I believe that this strengthens the immune system and allows it to suppress the spread of the cancer.  Neither my urologist or oncologist seem concerned by my PSA.

Have they told you anything about hormone therapy?  Do they have a plan to put you on it if your PSA goes above some number? It appears that you are one of the lucky guys whose cancer is very slow growing.  Can you tell us how old you are? I ask these questions because your experience seems to be different from most patients.  Many people who have "failed" treatment (i.e., PSA rose after treatment) immediately went on hormone therapy without waiting for the PSA to rise more than a few tenths.  Maybe some of those should have waited longer, as you have done. Thanks.     Alan

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Any of the "preventative" approaches could prevent or slow down the spread of any cancer remaining after treatment.  I had seeds about 6 years ago and my PSA was slowly rising until it got up to 3.3 where it seems to be staying.  I drink tomato juice (heated with margarine added) every day, Put ground flaxseed on my high fiber cereal (with soy milk) every morning and take as supplements: Gamma E with selenium, Boron, Licorice, Magnesium, C, D, Calcium, B complex plus a multi vitamin (without iron).  I believe that this strengthens the immune system and allows it to suppress the spread of the cancer.  Neither my urologist or oncologist seem concerned by my PSA.                   —MIKE—

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

check out cancertutor.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

If you look at past postings in this newsgroup, I think you will find: (1) no drug treatment is considered a long-term curative, only pallative. (2)long-term cure is based on destruction of the prostate before the cancer has spread by surgical removal, radiation, freezing, or high-intensity sound. There are many variables to consider, but watchful waiting should only be chosen if you are old enough that something else is likely to kill you before prostate cancer does. Don’t be lulled into waiting too long to choose a curative option if you are able to.

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No dietary or herbal alternatives have been shown effective in any clinical trials. But cooked tomato products, acidifying the lymphatic system with a little extra calcium intake, and cutting WAY back on saturated animal fats are folk remedies that should do no harm (unless the calcium is overdone). The wait and watch aproach is now widely condemned except in specific cases, mostly in people with short life expectation (maybe <a decade, maybe < 15 years). Are you in that category? I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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Watch out for its other side effect, too. When I tried ground flax seeds even in very small doses (well under a teaspoon), I began spending much of my day on paperwork. You know . . . the perforated roll of paper? No WAY was it worth that for me! There was just no getting cleaned up. I.P.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I participated in a study where I had the RRP last year.  They had me taking 30 grams of ground flax seed per day (about 3 tablespoons).  Do some Google searches to find out more.  There apparently was some research done that showed that something in the ground flax seed slowed the growth of the prostate cancer.  I remember the term "ligen" associated with this, and that the ground flax seed was necessary, not just the flax seed oil pills because they lacked some of the ingredients that they thought affected the cancer growth.  Memory is foggy on this now, sorry. One thing if you do try the ground flax seed.  Two things… One is that it has a short shelf life.  Be careful where you buy it. Buying it on the net may not be a good idea because you have no way of knowing how long it has been setting around.  And two, drink a lot if you take this stuff.  It will turn to concrete in your body if you do not drink enough fluids.  No joke there.

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There is nothing taken orally that cures Prostate Cancer.  There are some foods and vitamins that seem to have a postive effect on prostate cancer cells but their effect range from partial to possible.  Red wine, especially one high in a certain protein, may help.  Tomatoes, especially stewed or cooked, probably help.  Sellennium, Green Tea, Vitamin E, et al. all fall into the spectrum somewhere. — Prostate Cancer Survivor (so far), not a doctor Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3bN0M0 PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 PSA  .07 .05 .06 Lupron (3 mo) 8/03 (48), 12/03, 4/04 (49), 09/04 (50) non illegitimi carborundum

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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Cruciferous vegies……May be an important aspect in the fight to prevent prostate cancer.  Once you have cancer, it may not stop it. Keep track of your PSA and see a good urologist. Get a biopsy if at all suspicious. John Loomis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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I been doing a fare amount of reading to see what can be done to keep you from getting prostate cancer.  I’m concerned about both my boys, since both my brohter & I have/had it.  It seems an Asian type of a diet may prevent it – high in fish and soy products,  low in fats.  However, I don’t know how that would impact you once you already have the cancer. Sandy K.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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I participated in a study where I had the RRP last year.  They had me taking 30 grams of ground flax seed per day (about 3 tablespoons).  Do some Google searches to find out more.  There apparently was some research done that showed that something in the ground flax seed slowed the growth of the prostate cancer.  I remember the term "ligen" associated with this, and that the ground flax seed was necessary, not just the flax seed oil pills because they lacked some of the ingredients that they thought affected the cancer growth.  Memory is foggy on this now, sorry.   One thing if you do try the ground flax seed.  Two things… One is that it has a short shelf life.  Be careful where you buy it. Buying it on the net may not be a good idea because you have no way of knowing how long it has been setting around.  And two, drink a lot if you take this stuff.  It will turn to concrete in your body if you do not drink enough fluids.  No joke there. Good luck. Thank you. David S. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

The only long term effect of herbal remedies is an increase in the number of cancer cells in your prostate and eventually mets to surrounding areas. Tomatoes, wine, etc. might help *prevent* cancer from starting, but will do nothing to remove whatever ccancer yo already have. While you are watching and waiting, I would suggest you investigate methods of treatment which will kill the beast. George Age – 69 8/12/02 – PSA 3.7 10/13/03 – PSA 4.69 11/11/03 – PSA 4.8 11/18/03 – Biopsy – 10 cores one core-25% of core-Gleason 4+4=8 all other cores benign tissue 12/10/03 – Consult – Oncologist MD 12/16/03 – Consult – Radiation Oncologist Treatment Plan – Northeast Ga Cancer Center HT – started 12/17/03 – Eulixen & Lupron (2nd 4 mo Lupron-4/26) 2/10/04 – Started – Flowmax and Megastrol Radiation – IMRT to begin 3/30/04 – 42 treatments – Completed 6/8/04 8/30/04 – 1 yr Viadur Implant instead of 4mo Lupron

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We’ve been told red wine s good for us (I agree) Tomatoes on toast very nice But has any one tried any other herbal remedies /vitamins that are supposed to work. If you have tried them do they work? Any long term side affects? I’ve only just bin diagnosed and I’m on the Waite and watch approach, and would like to try this avenue before going on to drugs Any replies welcome

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Question:

Come back introduce yourself and look for Jennifer’s advice to newbies. It’s Great! — t2_lurking geabbottATabbottandabbottDOTcom Do not mail to t2_lurking (auto-delete)

it’s more then likely dawn phenomenon Wow…I just found this site 10 minutes ago….and already you have answered a question I have wondered about….why my blood sugar is highest  when I first wake up….think I’ll go have a snack and see what happens in the morning Thanks !!!   Jerri

http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond

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it’s more then likely dawn phenomenon

Wow…I just found this site 10 minutes ago….and already you have answered a question I have wondered about….why my blood sugar is highest  when I first wake up….think I’ll go have a snack and see what happens in the morning     Thanks !!!   Jerri                                        http://www.fringeweb.com/Ponds/JerrisPond

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I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

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I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

There are other reasons for bg’s to go up other than eating carbs. You probably have what is commonly known as the dawn phenomenon, in a nutshell the liver provides the system with glucose to prepare you for waking.  A number of things help with this, the bedtime snack being small and a combo of fat, carb and protein, like a couple or 3 of small wholemeal crackers with peanut butter etc.  The drug Metformin is also supposed  to assist with this problem.  I don’t take meds and I find that what works best for me is to follow a fairly low carb diet (i.e. no more than 10-15gr carb per meal or snack – the exception being breakfast when I have to eat less than 10 gr carb.  I am like a lot of diabetics, very carb sensitive in the mornings).  By the way, in a lot of cases, the longer you go without food after you wake, the more likely you are to see your bg’s keep rising.  So break your fast soon after you rise but keeps the carbs fairly low for that meal.

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Because you didnt have a snackj, you would have gone low,  Your liver dumps glucose to help prevent that,  It is called dawn phenomenon,  try having a snack like a couple of crackers with peanut butter or cheese, I have some light ice cream about two ounces, etc  See what works for you Loretta — In tribute to the United States of America and the State of Israel, two bastions of strength in a world filled with strife and terrorism.

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I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

Liver dump. I have learned that with diabetes, one should eat smaller meals more often rather than the old three meals a day. Oh, and cheer up.  Depression has never cured anything.

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go to www.diabetic-talk.org and take a look under the resource section to the "dawn phenomena" section it explains what happened to you sometimes a small bedtime snack of cheese and couple of crackers will off set this good luck kate Join us in the Diabetic-Talk Chatroom on UnderNet /server irc.undernet.org — /join #Diabetic-Talk More info: http://www.diabetic-talk.org/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

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It’s a classic case of the "Dawn Phenomenon". Here’s what happens to all of us over night. During the night while you’re asleep and can’t be eating, the body still needs some energy to keep it going.  So, glucose, which has been stored in the liver as "glycogen" is released into the blood.  In preparation for waking, the body sends out the biggest batch of glycogen in the last few hours before waking… usually between 3a – 8a. Also in these wee hours of the morning, the body puts out  other hormones from the adrenal and pituitary glands… It’s all part of the normal cycle for these hormones. They signal to the body that a new day is starting.  They rev you up and get you ready to awaken.  BUT… they also have an added effect on the liver that makes it less sensitive to insulin.  In non diabetics, this doesn’t pose any problem…  But in us diabetics, the liver dumping glucose, coupled with the insulin dampening hormones mean we awaken with high BG. Now.  What can be done? When I was first diagnosed 6/99 … I worked soooo hard to gain control of my BG.  And I did pretty damn good.  The only thing I couldn’t get under control were my morning numbers (FBG; Fasting Blood Glucose). I read all I could on the subject. (That’s how I could come up with the lengthy response above)… but no answers.  I tried every suggestion that anyone came up with.  High carb snacks before bed.  Low carb snacks before bed.  Not eating anything after 6p.  A glass of wine at 10p (that one I liked)… etc. etc. etc. Nothing changed it.  No matter what I did, my FBG numbers were always the highest of the day.  My other numbers were just where I wanted them… (I tested often… 1 hour after each meal and 2hrs after each meal, morning and bedtime… 5 – 8x a day).  And my A1cs were and continue to be under 5.5 Because of that, I chose not to lose any sleep over those pesky FBGs. So, in my opinion, keep trying, but work much harder on your Post Prandial readings (Post Prandial or PP means "after meals").  There have been studies that say they are the most indicative of future problems… not the FBG. Hang in.  It’s all a learning process.  The best thing you can do is TEST TEST TEST. Jennifer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

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It’s a classic case of the "Dawn Phenomenon". Here’s what happens to all of us over night. During the night …  glucose, which has been stored in the liver as "glycogen" is released into the blood.  ….  In non diabetics, this doesn’t pose any problem…  But in us diabetics, the liver dumping glucose, coupled with the insulin dampening hormones mean we awaken with high BG.

Jennifer’s advice, as usual is excellent.  However, Jennifer, I feel obliged to point out again: Not _all_ of us.  I don’t know how many exceptions there are, but I know I’m one.  I do not have high BG in the morning or at 3,4,5 AM (I’ve gotten up just to check). — Wes Groleau    —-    The man who reads nothing at all is better educated    than the man who reads nothing but newspapers.                              – Thomas Jefferson

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but it’s DP that hits when you get out of bed, not before. so if you test before getting out of bed then 15min later you might see a rise and continue to rise for close to a hour from what some have said.

I don’t have it after getting out of bed. I’ve never tested _in_ bed, but I have gotten up to test at various wee hours.  It just does not happen to me. If I don’t eat, my BG drops to about eighty and seems to hold there. — Wes Groleau    "Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change;     the courage to change the one I can;     and the wisdom to know it’s me."                                 — unknown

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Me too. My fasting is usually in the 80’s, with some a few points higher or lower, rarely into 3 digits. Same as if I test in the middle of the night or very early but go back to bed w/o eating. I got similar results when I fasted for surgery or colonoscopy. Even though I was up for hours w/o eating my bg stayed at normal fasting levels until I got some "input". And now that I’ve started taking Fosamax (1/wk) I’ve also tested when I get up & take the pill and again an hour or more later — with not eating or lying down in the meantime; I usually do a few chores, a mild walk (not enough fuel on board for anything vigorous), or mess around on the computer. The 2nd test is very similar to the first, but boy am I hungry by then! Now that I see the general pattern, I probably won’t bother with the extra tests very often. bj

(re — dawn phemonenon)… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t have it after getting out of bed. I’ve never tested _in_ bed, but I have gotten up to test at various wee hours.  It just does not happen to me. If I don’t eat, my BG drops to about eighty and seems to hold there.

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I checked my BG before I went to bed and it was 99 and I didn’t eat or drink anything from 10pm up untill now (7:37am) and it read 132. that worries me! what could have happened? I was sad and depressed before I went to sleep could that be the cause?

It’s a very common occurance…I’m within 5 points of 8.0 every morning after waking (7.5 to 8.5) (135 – 153) no matter what I do. I’ve checked my BG early, about 2 hours before normal waking and it was in the 5.5 (100) range…just a normal part of the waking process. The liver dumps glucose into the blood stream to provide energy to start the day…happens with non-diabetics too. We just can’t handle it quite as well.

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Question:

Thanks for your reply. By bone scan, did you mean a bone density test? I had one and there was very little bone loss.  (For me, it was the fluke MRI that detected it.) Or was it the bone scan where they inject dye? I hope that you are feeling well now. Rosa

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Thank you for your input. I will try the web site. Rosa

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I am not sure if I posted my last message correctly, so I will try again. I was just told that I have avascular necrosis from prednisone use. It is somewhat similar to osteoporosis but it seems to be harder to treat. Does anyone know about this? I was diagnosed after an MRI but often people don’t get tested for it until they experience pain

Question:

Hi Tina, I can’t tell you anything about methyltrexate, but my wife who has crohns/colitis (diagnosed 12/2000) nearly lost her colon during a flare when a surgeon gave her Celebrex.  Suspicious?  He was trying to convince her that "the colon has to come out."  She recovered, but doesn’t take any NSAIDS.  Let it be said that her arthritic conditions are minimal.  When she feels the joints, she can predict that a flare is coming.  She takes immuran.  When she flares, the Doctor hits her with a round of asacol to knock it out.  Last year she had 3 remicade infusions and one in February.  

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I was wondering if anyone who has reactive arthritis like me has ever taken the drug methotrexate?? If so, how long did it take before you noticed any difference or improvement?? I’ve been on it for 3 weeks now and I’ve taken 4tabs a week and now the doc has upped it to 8 tabs a week. I’ve noticed since I’ve started it that my colitis feels like its starting to flare up. (ya know the ugerency to go has been much greater lately). Could this be the meds?? I’m on pred, celebrex and azulfadine plus the methrotrexate, and Im ready for improvement!!!! So I’m just looking for some feedback on the methotrexate… Tina UC 95

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Tina, Wow, you got the best of all worlds when it comes to diseases don’t you?  Ulcerative Colitis and arthritis!  Well, at least you’re immune system won’t ever be down on the job. As far as methotrexate, I tried it for UC and it was not worth it.  It works by reducing the number of white blood cells in your body.  It used to be the main drug to treat Leukimia.  After reading up on it, and having a blood test a few weeks after starting it, I decided to stop taking it.  I was having too much abdominal pain, and going to the bathroom was diarhea 3 times a day.  After I quit, I felt much better.  I talked my doctor (2 years ago) to getting me a prescription for ENTOCORT (Budesonide for UC), and have been on it ever since!  It worked for me (and still is).  The only side affect for me is bone loss, but, guess what, I’m taking FOSAMAX…is this country great or what?  Anyway, its a small price for me to pay to keep my life. Finally, have you ever checked yourself for food allergies?  I took a "food allergy essay test" that my doctor had to order for me, and found out that I had antibodies to certain foods.  When I eat those foods, my colitis flares up (no matter what drug I’m taking). You should look into it! My philosophy on taking new drugs is "if it makes you feel worse, it should at least put you in complete remission…if not, stop taking it…" Good luck! jimmy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone who has reactive arthritis like me has ever taken the drug methotrexate?? If so, how long did it take before you noticed any difference or improvement?? I’ve been on it for 3 weeks now and I’ve taken 4tabs a week and now the doc has upped it to 8 tabs a week. I’ve noticed since I’ve started it that my colitis feels like its starting to flare up. (ya know the ugerency to go has been much greater lately). Could this be the meds?? I’m on pred, celebrex and azulfadine plus the methrotrexate, and Im ready for improvement!!!! So I’m just looking for some feedback on the methotrexate… Tina UC 95

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Question:

I have been on quinine for a couple of years now, and my new doctor has just told me to minimise my use of these as they have an effect on your eyes if used constantly. robyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, just looked in on this NG, bored at work this afternoon! Anyhow not having seen the rest of this thread I don’t know if its been mentioned or not but, I used to suffer with rotten night cramps in my legs. That was until the doc put me on quinine tablets, one a night and they have made an immense difference:-) — Philip Martin. Happily Insulin Jetting.

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Hi, just looked in on this NG, bored at work this afternoon! Anyhow not having seen the rest of this thread I don’t know if its been mentioned or not but, I used to suffer with rotten night cramps in my legs. That was until the doc put me on quinine tablets, one a night and they have made an immense difference:-) — Philip Martin. Happily Insulin Jetting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Hi, just looked in on this NG, bored at work this afternoon! Anyhow not having seen the rest of this thread I don’t know if its been mentioned or not but, I used to suffer with rotten night cramps in my legs. That was until the doc put me on quinine tablets, one a night and they have made an immense difference:-)

My pardon if this has been suggested before. I’ve gotten night leg cramps since high school. Two or three times a month, about an hour or so before I usually would get up, the calf of one or both legs would clench up very painfully. It would take a few seconds of conscious effort to relax before the spasm passed and the muscle would be sore for most of that day. I could sometimes avoid the spasm if I was awake enough by repositioning my leg; it seemed to happen during one of those pre-wake up stretches. When I spoke to a friend’s mom, a registered nurse, she said that the spasms sounded like the cramps suffered by dancers and athletes because of electrolyte imbalance. She recommended a list of foods that were high in calcium and magnesium and said I be more conscientious about getting enough. She also recommended supplements if they did not ease off over the next few months, two to three of the low dosage "cal-mag-zinc." That has worked for me for more than 15 years. I still get the cramps, but rarely and only after spending longer than usual being active on my feet. — Gregory Gadow http://www.serv.net/~techbear

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Quinine tablets did not work for me, but potassium and magnesium tablets did. Kate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, just looked in on this NG, bored at work this afternoon! Anyhow not having seen the rest of this thread I don’t know if its been mentioned or not but, I used to suffer with rotten night cramps in my legs. That was until the doc put me on quinine tablets, one a night and they have made an immense difference:-) My pardon if this has been suggested before. I’ve gotten night leg cramps since high school. Two or three times a month, about an hour or so before I usually would get up, the calf of one or both legs would clench up very painfully. It would take a few seconds of conscious effort to relax before the spasm passed and the muscle would be sore for most of that day. I could sometimes avoid the spasm if I was awake enough by repositioning my leg; it seemed to happen during one of those pre-wake up stretches. When I spoke to a friend’s mom, a registered nurse, she said that the spasms sounded like the cramps suffered by dancers and athletes because of electrolyte imbalance. She recommended a list of foods that were high in calcium and magnesium and said I be more conscientious about getting enough. She also recommended supplements if they did not ease off over the next few months, two to three of the low dosage "cal-mag-zinc." That has worked for me for more than 15 years. I still get the cramps, but rarely and only after spending longer than usual being active on my feet. — Gregory Gadow http://www.serv.net/~techbear

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Rocaltrol and Fosamax is an  interesting combo of meds….and do required some consideration.. specialist directed that she should not take calcium supplements. I don’t know why, exactly.

Hmmm….my literature re; Rocaltrol indicate that it can precipatate "hypercalciumia"….too much calcium…….THO in the same reference it states "maintain adequate daily CALCIUM and fluid intake"….then it goes on to WARN that care should be given to watch the ”calcium-phospate ratio’….etc/// Rocaltrol is a Vit D "analog"..ie works more like Vit D than calcium… One needs carefuly monitoring with this one.. Calcium supplements may interfere with the drugs’ absorption, as can ANY FOOD. It should be taken w

Fosamax on the OTHER hand,,,is intended to increase bone mass/prevent bone mass loss…most often in postmenopausal females..tho also used in men with osteoporosis… The important of taking it WITHOUT food,,,and with water only and remaining upright for 30 minutes is primarily intended because of its propensity to cause really HORRID esophageal irritation…so it is both an absorption issue,,as Stacie said…but MAINLY to get the drug down there and absorbed so it can NOT burn the esophagus …..tuf drug to take for many.. Due to these sorta conflicting instructions of these two meds…one would be wise to discuss this with their doc…asking questions about the above…. good luck rb Hawki…..the nurse practitioner

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   Leggo writes: She is taking Fosamax and Rocaltrol. I have been surprised that her specialist directed that she should not take calcium supplements. I don’t know why, exactly. <<<<Leggo, with her taking Fosamax, Calcium supplements may interfere with the drugs’ absorption, as can ANY FOOD. It should be taken with only a full glass of water, 30 min before eating, drinking or taking other meds (waiting longer than 30min will improve absorption). She should also stay sitting, as lying down can cause GI upset. Calcium containing foods: dairy, salmon with bones, sardines(yuk), seafood,green leafy veggies,carob, almonds,broccoli,asparagus,cabbage,parsley,figs, blackstrap molasses,brewers yeast,buttermilk,oats, goats milk,prunes, sesame seeds,tofu,whey & yogurt. With her Rocaltrol, she should receive an adequate daily intake of Calcium. I hope this is of some help. Keep a watch on the dehydration…fluids,fluids,fluids. If she weren’t a diabetic, gatorade would help alot with this. I’m not sure if childrens’ Pedialyte contains sugar. i know I got some for my cat that was a "special" one. Peace ~Stacie~

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No mention of how much calcium is taken.  Calcium deficiency can cause leg cramps.

On behalf of the cramps sufferer, let me thank the many respondants to my request for advice on treating cramps in the feet at night. The wide variety of suggestions is being explored. (Yes, cramps in the feet, apologies for my subject headers saying ‘legs’.) It looks like it might have a lot to do with dehydration. Now, to address your question re calcium. Even though her osteo condition is severe, she is taking no calcium supplements. This sounds weird, but her physician has told her not to take any, just be sure and stick to a diet which supplies plenty of calcium. The main source would be dairy, I guess (skim milk, low-fat cottage cheese, yogurt). She is taking Fosamax and Rocaltrol. I have been surprised that her specialist directed that she should not take calcium supplements. I don’t know why, exactly. Nonetheless, bone scans do show that her bone density is improving in some areas, static in others, so she is grateful for small mercies. She lives in a sunny area and works outdoors in her garden each day, so gets ample natural sunlight. Someone else asked about her BG. Glucose level is wildly uncontrolled, and despite spells of hospitalisation in an endeavour to stabilise it, it remains a daily seesaw. If I recall correctly, it once was very stable, but since being forced to change to human insulin when pig insulin was no longer available to her (on the national health scheme here in Australia), her BG plunged out of control and hypos became an almost daily occurrence. (I will check on this next time I’m talking to her, just to be doubly sure, but that is the situation as I recall it.) Actually, most hypos occur in the middle of the night, but fortunately she rouses from sleep, recognizing the confused state in time to fix something to eat. Alas, having to eat these unscheduled snacks, her morning Fosamax tablet too often has to be foregone. I’d be interested to know whether anyone else with severe osteoporosis has been told not to take calcium supplements, too. Again, thank you to all who replied. Leg Cramps

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Calcium & potassium are excellent also…preventa- tively

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I have severe leg cramps, mostly at night, but also during the day. The only thing that has helped me is quinine. It used to be available over the counter, but now must have a prescription. Hope this helps. Marilyn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps You say she is diabetic. How good is her BG control? In the weeks before being diagnosed as a type 2 I experienced severe cramps in the calf muscles several times. Since being diagnosed and getting my BG levels down this has never been a problem. In retrospect, after diagnosis, I recognized that I had been peeing a lot (just thought it was old-man’s bladder) and I assume it was dehydration or messed up blood chemistry that had been giving me the cramps.

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No mention of how much calcium is taken.  Calcium deficiency can cause leg cramps. —     Grant Getz, Arizona State University     Don’t reply to the e-mail address in the header. It’s bogus. Change feet to foot.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Our old standby is Tonic (quinine) Water. Does quite well. Flatus Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

You say she is diabetic. How good is her BG control? In the weeks before being diagnosed as a type 2 I experienced severe cramps in the calf muscles several times. Since being diagnosed and getting my BG levels down this has never been a problem. In retrospect, after diagnosis, I recognized that I had been peeing a lot (just thought it was old-man’s bladder) and I assume it was dehydration or messed up blood chemistry that had been giving me the cramps.

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No one has mentioned, but I eat 1 banana per day and it has helped – I have been a diabetic for 40 plus years, on insulin pump and shots. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

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there were some good suggestions posted! one night I couldn’t sleep because I had a cramp in one foot.  I got up, looked on the net (searched the news groups from Google) and found a post from misc.health.diabetes saying to sprinkle a little salt substitute (potassium) under the tongue.  I had bought some just that evening. so I tried it (about 1/4 teas.) and it worked!  it doesn’t taste very good though—– another thing that helps my legs is to sleep with my feet on a flat pillow.  and something that feels good is to cover the calves with peanut oil then wrap the legs in an old towel which I warm in the microwave for 1 minute.  it WILL burn in there so be careful!  or if you have olive oil on hand, give that a try. and if you take calcium, take it before bedtime. happy snoozing! Dusty – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Get a lab to do a serum electrolytes. Cramps are more often a result of a potassium rather then sodium deficiency.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance.

My first thought is the non-functioning thyroid.  Thyroid problems can cause cramps.  Has she had her potassium lever checked?  How about her calcium level?  Has she been checked for neuropathy…diabetic or otherwise?  How about Fibromyalgia.  There is a link to that and thyroid problems. — Type 2 http://www.redshift.com/~juliebove/

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P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

Try wearing support stockings.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

I know you’ve already had this suggestion, but for me quinine was the key. I was having leg cramps that would bring me straight up in the bed out of a sound sleep screaming.  After a couple of days on the quinine, I haven’t had any problems.  The one time I did have a leg cramp, I discovered that I didn’t take my night meds.  So far I haven’t had any side effects from the quinine and I’ve been on it for months.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps I know you’ve already had this suggestion, but for me quinine was the key. I was having leg cramps that would bring me straight up in the bed out of a sound sleep screaming.  After a couple of days on the quinine, I haven’t had any problems.  The one time I did have a leg cramp, I discovered that I didn’t take my night meds.  So far I haven’t had any side effects from the quinine and I’ve been on it for months.  I;m hoping one of these suggestions works.  If not, did  she had a change of

    medication before these started by any chance?     codeee

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place!

Huh. Is her bed warm enough, does she wear socks to bed, does she have varicose veins, and does it help to keep her feet elevated? I’m thinking that she’s cramping because of poor circulation. The veins in your legs rely on one way valves and leg motion to pump blood back up your legs: I’m wondering if during sleep, she needs some circulatory help.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine!

Get a lab to do a serum electrolytes. Cramps are more often a result of a potassium rather then sodium deficiency.

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For restless leg syndrome, my doctor suggested I take Folic Acid.  It works. I’d ask your pharmacist as to the amount she should use.  Good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

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P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen

How much vitamin E is being taken? Who loves ya. Tom — Jesus was a Vegetarian! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman Moses was a Mystic! http://www.nucleus.com/watchman/light.html

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Dear Leg Cramps, My crystal ball isn’t very clear here. It wavers between: 1. CVD of the legs. B-12 can cause peripheral vascular thrombosis. Intermittent claudication. A supine Doppler Ultrasound would be telling. 2. Peripheral Diabetic Neuropathy which may respond to various anti-convulsants. 3. Electrolyte Imbalance. With adrenal insufficiency, she may not be retaining enough potassium. Fosamax can reduce calcium. CBC or Chem-7 to find out. She needs a competent doc. Jim

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Pain in the feet of a diabetic at night should raise suspicions of diabetic neuropathy. This may respond to Neurontin or other anticonvulsants or possibly to tricyclic antidepressants. Simpler remedies to relieve this include soaking the feet in cold water prior to bed and keeping the weight of bedclothes off the feet. Also, has it occurred to her primary care physician that her leg pain/cramp may be related to poor blood flow as a result of obstruction of the femoral arteries ? This would seem a reasonable place to start esp. as the patient concerned has angina. If this is the case folk/drug remedies and preventatives for the pain/cramp with be of no use and surgery becomes an option. Lesley

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Reposted from sci.med A female aged mid-70s, with quite a variety of long term health problems (all under specialist care) suffers foot cramps most nights. She has tried taking extra salt and magnesium, tried camphor and soap between the bed sheets, and probably a few other folk remedies, all to no avail. Her diet is low-fat, scrupulously well-balanced, and she is not overweight. Would welcome any further ideas that are reputed to alleviate this painful disturbance to sleep. She is active, and otherwise healthy, and goes for a brisk 30 minute walk most afternoons. Is an injecting diabetic, has non-functioning thyroid and non-functioning adrenal glands, now and then experiences angina pain, is astmatic, has the B injections for anemia, has some arthritis, is being managed for severe osteoporosis (on Fosamax) due to half a lifetime’s need for prednisone. Otherwise, health is fine! Please post any further suggestions. (No email please, address is invalid) P.S. Recommendations so far include quinine, magnesium, improved hydration, vitamin E (aleady taking), hypnotherapy, magnets, deep breathing for oxygenation, lavender oil on pillow, a few aromatherapy oils, but am keen to hear of other ideas you may have, including any folk remedies that may work (these are less likely to conflict with her numerous meds). She has found that a hot water bottle applied to the foot eases the pain and the cramp, but would prefer that the cramp did not arise in the first place! Thank you in advance. Leg Cramps

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Pain in the feet of a diabetic at night should raise suspicions of diabetic neuropathy. This may respond to Neurontin or other anticonvulsants or possibly to tricyclic antidepressants. Simpler remedies to relieve this include soaking the feet in cold water prior to bed and keeping the weight of bedclothes off the feet. Also, has it occurred to her primary care physician that her leg pain/cramp may be related to poor blood flow as a result of obstruction of the femoral arteries ? This would seem a reasonable place to start esp. as the patient concerned has angina. If this is the case folk/drug remedies and preventatives for the pain/cramp with be of no use and surgery becomes an option. Lesley

Absolutely. Bring up the phrase Claudication at the next doctors visit. It may be, it might well be something else. Claudication is basically impaired blood flow. Which can cause cramps. R — ratty at flyingrat.net New webthingy is www.flyingrat.net

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Question:

I’ve been off medecine since 3days after they told me about my disease and I don’t regret it.   Had to change food (now vegetarian) and to lower the pace with physical exercice but otherwise i feel i’m getting better over time. I don’t take any pills, supplements or E.T. products.  Just eat certified biological food and try to resist at McNuggets & associates Now one year after my first and last visit to the hospital about this topic. Dom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All. I’m not quite sure why I’m posting this. Anyway, got a few steps closer today to being diagnosed with Crohns. A hydrogen breath test came back positive… I have bacterial overgrowth. A bone density test also showed I have mild osteopenia, which according to my doctor is quite substantial in indicating I may have Crohns. I don’t understand how I can have mild bone density loss though. My symptoms only started 8 months ago, and they have been very very mild. A wireless enteroscopy showed some patchy areas of mild redness and swelling, but that was it. So anywho… They’ve prescribed Augmentin for the bacterial overgrowth and Fosamax for the osteopenia. I’m not sure I like the idea of taking Fosamax. The literature says that you need to keep taking it to keep the effects. Surely though if we can clear up the bowel irritation, then I’ll absorb calcium better and I won’t need the Fosamax anymore to maintain bone density. Have to start taking 1500mg Calcium a day, 400 IU of Vitamin D, and I guess its time for me to get serious about going to the gym. Whats really freaking me out is quality of life. I just don’t know what sort of quality of life I can expect in the future. Things are very mild right now, and have gotten progressively better since this all started (no real prescription medicines). I just don’t know if they will remain mild, even with Crohns medication. Douglas.

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Whats really freaking me out is quality of life. I just don’t know what sort of quality of life I can expect in the future. Things are very mild right now, and have gotten progressively better since this all started (no real prescription medicines). I just don’t know if they will remain mild, even with Crohns medication.

There may be a good chance that things stay like they are, and if they do get worse, can be controlled with medicine. I hope so!

Response:

Hi All. I’m not quite sure why I’m posting this. Anyway, got a few steps closer today to being diagnosed with Crohns. A hydrogen breath test came back positive… I have bacterial overgrowth. A bone density test also showed I have mild osteopenia, which according to my doctor is quite substantial in indicating I may have Crohns. I don’t understand how I can have mild bone density loss though. My symptoms only started 8 months ago, and they have been very very mild. A wireless enteroscopy showed some patchy areas of mild redness and swelling, but that was it. So anywho… They’ve prescribed Augmentin for the bacterial overgrowth and Fosamax for the osteopenia. I’m not sure I like the idea of taking Fosamax. The literature says that you need to keep taking it to keep the effects. Surely though if we can clear up the bowel irritation, then I’ll absorb calcium better and I won’t need the Fosamax anymore to maintain bone density. Have to start taking 1500mg Calcium a day, 400 IU of Vitamin D, and I guess its time for me to get serious about going to the gym. Whats really freaking me out is quality of life. I just don’t know what sort of quality of life I can expect in the future. Things are very mild right now, and have gotten progressively better since this all started (no real prescription medicines). I just don’t know if they will remain mild, even with Crohns medication. Douglas.

Response:

Question:

g’day bill always be watchful for possible side effects to your medications but don’t necessarily be alarmed by what happens to someone else. everyone is different and we respond to drugs differently, just be watchful for the drugs effects and have regular check-ups. be sure to raise your concerns with your neurologist and he will discuss them with you. i took dilantin from age 4 years through till i was 17 y.o. with seemingly no ill effects. pablo "Bill Anderson" <sir_walley…@SPAMhotmail.com

wrote in message

news:mrKh8.75$dZ4.125781@newsfeed.slurp.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just curious but how long were you on Dilantin? What was your dose? What > exactly is Cerebellar Atrophy? > I have been on 400mg Dilantin daily for 10 months now and I don’t want to > develop a medical condition from treating another. > Thanks! > Cargm <ca…@aol.com

wrote in message

> news:20020307080339.09882.00000139@mb-mp.aol.com… > > Hi Betty, > > It’s Cerebellar Atrophy.  I know it has to do with balance.  When you look

at my MRI, it’s located right in the back of my brain and it’s all

shrunken.

The Neurologist and Neuropsychologist do not seem concerned about the

atrophy.

I will be getting some blood tests done this week. Oh – the atrophy is due to long term Dilantin use.  When my Depakate

level

reaches a specific level they will begin to wean me from the Dilantin. Thanks, Carol

Response:

I was taking, daily,  300 mg Dilantin for 32 years. I had TLE as a child and one Clonic Tonic seizure at 19 (I’ve been on the Dilantin since 19). If you look through the literature Dilantin causes many long term side effects.  I am dealing with bone loss (am taking Fosamax to prevent Osteoporosis). Neurolgists just kept me on it.  One doc, 5 years ago wanted me to stop it but I have too much to lose if I have another seizure.  He probably should have suggested switching drugs.  I’m switching now because of poor seizure, long term Dilantin use problems and I’m not metabolizing Dilantin too well. Here’s an article on long term Dilantin use: http://www.siumed.edu/neuro/epilepsy/QNA/QNAframes/longterm_dilantinj… Here’s another article that may help: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cerebellum/ Good luck! Carol

Response:

In article <20020306201845.16678.00000…@mb-ma.aol.com

, ca…@aol.com

says…

Hi All, I am beginning to think that this is a pattern.  I have had several instances of Motion Sickness.  Today I was on a train and had to sit in the opposite direction that the train was going in.  I was able to change to another car but then had to go in a friend’s car on bumpy roads.  I felt miserable (Nausea) by the time I got home. This is the 4th time within the last month that this happened.  I have recently started Depakote and Fosamax.  The first occasion was prior to starting these drugs. I also have Cellebular Atrophy and my EEG is abnormal but they can not determine whether or not I have Epilepsy (although the Clinical Impression is that I do).

Do you mean cerebral atrophy? Depending on the cause and how much is damaged may have something to do with it.

Response:

Hi Betty, It’s Cerebellar Atrophy.  I know it has to do with balance.  When you look at my MRI, it’s located right in the back of my brain and it’s all shrunken.  The Neurologist and Neuropsychologist do not seem concerned about the atrophy.  I will be getting some blood tests done this week. Oh – the atrophy is due to long term Dilantin use.  When my Depakate level reaches a specific level they will begin to wean me from the Dilantin. Thanks, Carol

Response:

Just curious but how long were you on Dilantin? What was your dose? What exactly is Cerebellar Atrophy? I have been on 400mg Dilantin daily for 10 months now and I don’t want to develop a medical condition from treating another. Thanks! Cargm <ca…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:20020307080339.09882.00000139@mb-mp.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Hi Betty, It’s Cerebellar Atrophy.  I know it has to do with balance.  When you look

at

my MRI, it’s located right in the back of my brain and it’s all shrunken.

The

Neurologist and Neuropsychologist do not seem concerned about the atrophy.

I

will be getting some blood tests done this week. Oh – the atrophy is due to long term Dilantin use.  When my Depakate level reaches a specific level they will begin to wean me from the Dilantin. Thanks, Carol

Response:

Hi All, I am beginning to think that this is a pattern.  I have had several instances of Motion Sickness.  Today I was on a train and had to sit in the opposite direction that the train was going in.  I was able to change to another car but then had to go in a friend’s car on bumpy roads.  I felt miserable (Nausea) by the time I got home. This is the 4th time within the last month that this happened.  I have recently started Depakote and Fosamax.  The first occasion was prior to starting these drugs. I also have Cellebular Atrophy and my EEG is abnormal but they can not determine whether or not I have Epilepsy (although the Clinical Impression is that I do). Does anyone have any experience with Motion Sickness.  I saw the Neurologist yesterday who said Depakote can cause Nausea. Thanks, Carol

Response:

I would get in touch with your doctor and explain what you have told us. Several years ago I was trying a new drug (can’t remember the name now). I was having so many different side effects that it was making me miserable. The Neurologist slowly took me off that med and tried another new med, this one made me terribly nauseous right away. I had to call the doctor and he sent me to the emergency room for a shot to stop the nausea (it was in the middle of the night). Then he put me back on the medication I was originally on, but changed the dosage until he found a therapeutic level for me. Take care, Julie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cargm wrote:

Hi All, I am beginning to think that this is a pattern.  I have had several instances of Motion Sickness.  Today I was on a train and had to sit in the opposite direction that the train was going in.  I was able to change to another car but then had to go in a friend’s car on bumpy roads.  I felt miserable (Nausea) by the time I got home. This is the 4th time within the last month that this happened.  I have recently started Depakote and Fosamax.  The first occasion was prior to starting these drugs. I also have Cellebular Atrophy and my EEG is abnormal but they can not determine whether or not I have Epilepsy (although the Clinical Impression is that I do). Does anyone have any experience with Motion Sickness.  I saw the Neurologist yesterday who said Depakote can cause Nausea. Thanks, Carol

Response:

Question:

Having had hip replacement surgery last month (March actually) and having been taking my Magnesium, Rocaltrol and Caltrate on a daily basis for 4 or 5 years, to reduce the effects of bone loss from Prednisone, can anyone tell me if this course of drug therapy is the best way to go? I keep hearing that Fosomax reduces the risk of Osteoporosis better than anything else available, but being Australian I can’t help but wonder that in this department they have Fosomax as a drug that is only subsidised for women. Rocaltrol was once only available (subsidised) to women in this country because they didn’t think men got Osteoporosis. That’s changed now because of 3 gutsy old guys that took the Government to court and proved they were being discriminated against. So I can’t help wondering that Fosomax is going down the same path. John H(I)

Response:

I’m a 70 year old male whose osteoporosis came from Prednisone. I switched from Fosomax to Actonel a year ago as the former was giving me severe GERD’s.  Started taking 5 MG/DAY and had no side effects, though it is a similar product.  Recently switched to one 30 MG tablet/WEEK.  Also taking 1500 MG/DAY of calcium.  Bone density has improved over the past year, though it is a slow process. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Having had hip replacement surgery last month (March actually) and having been taking my Magnesium, Rocaltrol and Caltrate on a daily basis for 4 or 5 years, to reduce the effects of bone loss from Prednisone, can anyone tell me if this course of drug therapy is the best way to go? I keep hearing that Fosomax reduces the risk of Osteoporosis better than anything else available, but being Australian I can’t help but wonder that in this department they have Fosomax as a drug that is only subsidised for women. Rocaltrol was once only available (subsidised) to women in this country because they didn’t think men got Osteoporosis. That’s changed now because of 3 gutsy old guys that took the Government to court and proved they were being discriminated against. So I can’t help wondering that Fosomax is going down the same path. John H(I)

Response:

Check out http://www.focusonmedications.com/Script/Main/Art.asp?li=MNI&ArticleK… or any of the other Med sites for further info on Actonel – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m a 70 year old male whose osteoporosis came from Prednisone. I switched from Fosomax to Actonel a year ago as the former was giving me severe GERD’s.  Started taking 5 MG/DAY and had no side effects, though it is a similar product.  Recently switched to one 30 MG tablet/WEEK.  Also taking 1500 MG/DAY of calcium.  Bone density has improved over the past year, though it is a slow process. Having had hip replacement surgery last month (March actually) and having been taking my Magnesium, Rocaltrol and Caltrate on a daily basis for 4 or 5 years, to reduce the effects of bone loss from Prednisone, can anyone tell me if this course of drug therapy is the best way to go? I keep hearing that Fosomax reduces the risk of Osteoporosis better than anything else available, but being Australian I can’t help but wonder that in this department they have Fosomax as a drug that is only subsidised for women. Rocaltrol was once only available (subsidised) to women in this country because they didn’t think men got Osteoporosis. That’s changed now because of 3 gutsy old guys that took the Government to court and proved they were being discriminated against. So I can’t help wondering that Fosomax is going down the same path. John H(I)

Response:

I am going to look stuuuuupid, but what is GERD??? Tnks for the answer– Ron "Steve P" <spinetx…@home.com

wrote in message

news:3af2951f.5839722@news… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

I’m a 70 year old male whose osteoporosis came from Prednisone. I switched from Fosomax to Actonel a year ago as the former was giving me severe GERD’s.  Started taking 5 MG/DAY and had no side effects, though it is a similar product.  Recently switched to one 30 MG tablet/WEEK.  Also taking 1500 MG/DAY of calcium.  Bone density has improved over the past year, though it is a slow process. Having had hip replacement surgery last month (March actually) and having been taking my Magnesium, Rocaltrol and Caltrate on a daily basis for 4

or 5

years, to reduce the effects of bone loss from Prednisone, can anyone

tell

me if this course of drug therapy is the best way to go? I keep hearing that Fosomax reduces the risk of Osteoporosis better than anything else available, but being Australian I can’t help but wonder

that

in this department they have Fosomax as a drug that is only subsidised

for

women. Rocaltrol was once only available (subsidised) to women in this country because they didn’t think men got Osteoporosis. That’s changed now

because

of 3 gutsy old guys that took the Government to court and proved they

were

being discriminated against. So I can’t help wondering that Fosomax is

going

down the same path. John H(I)

Response:

You don’t look stupid. GERD stands for Gastro Esophogeal Reflux Disease.  A lot of times it’s just referred to as acid reflux. ~~~~Pat CD Class of 98 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Ron Gould" wrote I am going to look stuuuuupid, but what is GERD??? Tnks for the answer– Ron

Response:

Pat’s right on the button! It is a condition where the valve between the esophagus and the stomach leaks stomach acid back up into the esophagus. It can be a cause of many problems from ulcers to asthma. Boyd — ———————————————————————- "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

My son has been on Fosamax for a year now aged 20 for osteosporosis from pred.     To stop the acid reflux he has to take the fosamax at least one hour before breakfast and any other pills with a full large glass of water, and then stay vertical (in other words do not go back to bed) for that one hour.     He has been doing this for a year now – improvement is slow but in about 10-11 months he had a 10% improvement in his bone scan – he is also on monthly injections of sustanon (testosterone) which is meant to help bone density improvement with the fosamax and calcium – he finds the sustanon also boosts his energy level. But is is important when taking fosamax to have it 1 hour before food with a large glass of water and stay vertical as mentioned above or acid reflux etc can occur. Margaret (in NZ) "Boyd Annas" <boydan…@tstonramp.com

wrote in message

news:tf6s0e9g54n3e6@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Pat’s right on the button! It is a condition where the valve between the esophagus and the stomach leaks stomach acid back up into the esophagus.

It

can be a cause of many problems from ulcers to asthma. Boyd — ———————————————————————- "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

As I’ve said in an earlier post, I switched to Actonel because it eliminated the GERD’s effects common to Fosamax.  They do recommend the same dosing method for Actonel that they do for Fosamax, however for most people the side effects are reduced or eliminated. Another treatment without side effects is alendronate (Fosamax) infusion done on an out patient basis a couple times a year.  Only problem here is a 4 – 6 hour stay in a hospital. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

My son has been on Fosamax for a year now aged 20 for osteosporosis from pred.     To stop the acid reflux he has to take the fosamax at least one hour before breakfast and any other pills with a full large glass of water, and then stay vertical (in other words do not go back to bed) for that one hour.     He has been doing this for a year now – improvement is slow but in about 10-11 months he had a 10% improvement in his bone scan – he is also on monthly injections of sustanon (testosterone) which is meant to help bone density improvement with the fosamax and calcium – he finds the sustanon also boosts his energy level. But is is important when taking fosamax to have it 1 hour before food with a large glass of water and stay vertical as mentioned above or acid reflux etc can occur. Margaret (in NZ) "Boyd Annas" <boydan…@tstonramp.com wrote in message news:tf6s0e9g54n3e6@corp.supernews.com… Pat’s right on the button! It is a condition where the valve between the esophagus and the stomach leaks stomach acid back up into the esophagus. It can be a cause of many problems from ulcers to asthma. Boyd — ———————————————————————- "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity."

Response:

Question:

I am taking Evista which I take with my dinner meds after eating. It has increased my bone density and unless I can blame this fatigue on it, has no side effects that I can tell. The schedule for taking Fosamax just does not fit my life style or schedule. Duckie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My rheum mentioned that he’d like me to go on it or something similar after I finish breastfeeding, because I’ve been on the prednisone for so long and my bone density test shows lower density ( -1.0).  Just wondering if there are any side effects. I hopefully have a long time before going on it (hoping to bf for another 8+ months) but trying to gather info now. btw, my mother has osteoporosis, so I also have the hereditary factor. life is what happens when you’re making other plans…

Response:

Alison,  I went on Fosamax twice, and each time it caused my thumb joints to get very sore, particularly the right one.  I had to wear braces on both thumbs for a while. Other folks have used it with no side effects. Gwen Happy memories never wear out…re-live them as often as you want. .

Response:

Both myself (long term P. user) and my ex (history of Osteoporosis and some bone density loss) have been on Fosamax for better than 3 years with no adverse side effects. The new 70 mg, once a week, tablets are a blessing. For more info stay tuned to this channel and visit: http://www.fosamax.com/  . With a new baby the 1/2 hour of not going back to bed after taking a dose shouldn’t be much of a problem. JDShine

I am on it as well and just switched to the 79mg once a week dose a few weeks ago.  Now I only have to go without coffee on Saturdays, LOL.  Fosamax made me horrendously nauseous for the first 6-8 months I took is.  It was like having chronic morning sickness.  I lost weight, which was a good thing come to think about it. Anne AAC/AAF/AFBV62.0844.TX http://tckworld.com/opfoot It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye. The Little Prince

Response:

I’ve had no problem, but pay strict attention to the ampty stomach rule and the 30 minute waiting period after taking it.  I found out the hard way that I should do that.  I much prefer the 70mg once a week dose to the daily dose, though.  Makes taking it much easier.  Good luck! Tracy "if you’re on thin ice you may as well dance…"

Response:

<<< pay strict attention to the ampty stomach rule and the 30 minute waiting period after taking it.  I found out the hard way that I should do that. WHY, what happens???? life is what happens when you’re making other plans…

Response:

My rheum mentioned that he’d like me to go on it or something similar after I finish breastfeeding, because I’ve been on the prednisone for so long and my bone density test shows lower density ( -1.0).  Just wondering if there are any side effects. I hopefully have a long time before going on it (hoping to bf for another 8+ months) but trying to gather info now. btw, my mother has osteoporosis, so I also have the hereditary factor. life is what happens when you’re making other plans…

Response:

Hi Alison…I am taking Fosamax 70mg once a week, and then daily calcium supplements…I haven’t had any side affects, and I’m not real sure what they are….I know I was told not to lay down for at least 1/2 hour after taking it…and to take it with a full glass of water before eating anything or taking any other meds.   Good luck to you!  Pic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My rheum mentioned that he’d like me to go on it or something similar after I finish breastfeeding, because I’ve been on the prednisone for so long and my bone density test shows lower density ( -1.0).  Just wondering if there are any side effects. I hopefully have a long time before going on it (hoping to bf for another 8+ months) but trying to gather info now. btw, my mother has osteoporosis, so I also have the hereditary factor. life is what happens when you’re making other plans…

Response:

My rheum mentioned that he’d like me to go on it or something similar after I finish breastfeeding, because I’ve been on the prednisone for so long and my bone density test shows lower density ( -1.0).  Just wondering if there are any side effects. I hopefully have a long time before going on it (hoping to bf for another 8+ months) but trying to gather info now. btw, my mother has osteoporosis, so I also have the hereditary factor. life is what happens when you’re making other plans…

Both myself (long term P. user) and my ex (history of Osteoporosis and some bone density loss) have been on Fosamax for better than 3 years with no adverse side effects. The new 70 mg, once a week, tablets are a blessing. For more info stay tuned to this channel and visit: http://www.fosamax.com/  . With a new baby the 1/2 hour of not going back to bed after taking a dose shouldn’t be much of a problem. JDShine

Response:

Question:

Jim: You just keep getting better and better so we can see you in Ft. Worth in February…. Linn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been to the doc again.  I’m taking Fosamax which is supposed to help regenerate lost bone.  I’ve been on a diet (YUK!) and have lost 11 lbs in just 3 weeks.  Eating healthy ain’t so bad (yeah right!)  and that dread word *exercise* that we all love so well.  Doing much better since the physical *and* the mental outlook is much better.  Been back in the shop and getting ready for the Christmas season.  Looking forward to making sawdust for a long time to come ~ just taking it one week at a time (one day at a time was getting boring!) <g My son Josh is doing much better as well.  His surgery 2 months ago went well and is getting along on one crutch.  As an added note of interest, the alleged DWI driver that hit him is in jail as we speak.  No, not for this offense, but rather a previous infraction (or two).  Leaving the scene of a previous accident, failure to appear in court, and oh yeah . . . felony drug trafficking charges!  So figure!  I hope he spends many a *looong* night there and gets the nickname "Fern!"  LOL! — Jim Mc Namara Future Collectibles Designer and builder of fine stitchery cabinets www.futurecollectibles.com

Response:

I’ve been to the doc again.  I’m taking Fosamax which is supposed to help regenerate lost bone.  I’ve been on a diet (YUK!) and have lost 11 lbs in just 3 weeks.  Eating healthy ain’t so bad (yeah right!)  and that dread word *exercise* that we all love so well.  Doing much better since the physical *and* the mental outlook is much better.  Been back in the shop and getting ready for the Christmas season.  Looking forward to making sawdust for a long time to come ~ just taking it one week at a time (one day at a time was getting boring!) <g My son Josh is doing much better as well.  His surgery 2 months ago went well and is getting along on one crutch.  As an added note of interest, the alleged DWI driver that hit him is in jail as we speak.  No, not for this offense, but rather a previous infraction (or two).  Leaving the scene of a previous accident, failure to appear in court, and oh yeah . . . felony drug trafficking charges!  So figure!  I hope he spends many a *looong* night there and gets the nickname "Fern!"  LOL! — Jim Mc Namara Future Collectibles Designer and builder of fine stitchery cabinets www.futurecollectibles.com

Response:

That’s wonderful news all the way around on a Thanksgiving weekend (Canadian). Hannah in Halifax – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been to the doc again.  I’m taking Fosamax which is supposed to help regenerate lost bone.  I’ve been on a diet (YUK!) and have lost 11 lbs in just 3 weeks.  Eating healthy ain’t so bad (yeah right!)  and that dread word *exercise* that we all love so well.  Doing much better since the physical *and* the mental outlook is much better.  Been back in the shop and getting ready for the Christmas season.  Looking forward to making sawdust for a long time to come ~ just taking it one week at a time (one day at a time was getting boring!) <g My son Josh is doing much better as well.  His surgery 2 months ago went well and is getting along on one crutch.  As an added note of interest, the alleged DWI driver that hit him is in jail as we speak.  No, not for this offense, but rather a previous infraction (or two).  Leaving the scene of a previous accident, failure to appear in court, and oh yeah . . . felony drug trafficking charges!  So figure!  I hope he spends many a *looong* night there and gets the nickname "Fern!"  LOL! — Jim Mc Namara Future Collectibles Designer and builder of fine stitchery cabinets www.futurecollectibles.com

Response:

Glad to hear you and your son are both doing better.  I hope your health improves soon. Also glad to hear the man responsible for the awful accident is in jail. Hope he stays there a long time. Joan in Philly

Response:

Hi Jim – great to hear from you.  So glad your son’s doing well, and am very happy to hear you’re doing better.  You sound like the kind of guy that when life gives you a lemon, you make lemonade:-) Donna S

Response:

Glad to hear you’re doing better, Jim -Amy

Response:

: I’ve been to the doc again.   <snip : My son Josh is doing much better as well. <more snipped         Jim, I’m sooo glad to hear you’re *both* doing better!  Keep up that good diet and exercise–we want you here for a looooong time!         Joan — X/USA/H–/Y17,Y15,X14/1H/XKCrNC/H/:-D~ trying to :-X/?/G-/W+/D/M/B/b/R? S/K/E-/1F/Tom Cruise, Harrison Ford, Noah Wyle, George Clooney/Who has time to read anything but rctn?!?/DQ’s & chocolate-covered orange jelly sticks                                     Those who are so proud of keeping        Joan M. Erickson                 an orderly desk will never know the      Chester Fritz Library, UND       thrill of finding something they        Grand Forks, ND   58202          thought they had lost forever.                                             Gem of the day — Ann Landers  

Response: