Question:

Wow if you figure out what it is, please let me know.  I am so disgusted by this disease it is not funny any more.  It is bad enough to deal with the disease with out all this extra junk.  UM MOM susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, that’s not what they called it. It never hurt, it just got HUGE! I took meds for it and it wouldn’t go away, just kept getting bigger. I get them all over the insides of my cheek. I still have ALOT of them. They’ve gave me meds but they still stay there. I think I told you all about the lump in my throat. I still have it too. I’ve been to my doc,my dentist and my GI doc, had an upper Gi ran, showed nothing. Now I’m going to an ENT and he said my larnyx is inflammed. He thinks it’s gerd ,acid relux or something, even tho I have NO heartburn, so he put me on prevacid for a month, it’s still there. I go back to see him the 6th of May to find out what he wants to do. Leave it to me to get things no one can do anything about..lol..but atleast they don’t really bother me, except for this lump in my throat. It sound like the one you are discribing on the cheek to be a canker sore not oral thrush.  If you contact your dentist and see him/her they will be able to tell and if it is there is a prescription that can be taken to get rid of them.  UM MOM Susan

Response:

Have you tried an antifungal drug for this? It might be candidiasis in the mouth (we call it muguet in french, I don’t know the english name for it). The french name of the drug is fungizone. Noella – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have white spots in my mouth. somtimes I get sores on my tongue, but they hurt like tiny blisters. The white spots don’t hurt, but I had to have one cut out because it got to big. The white spots I get are on the inside of my cheek. I’ve tried all those meds for them, like you have, nothing has gotten rid of mine. Kimi I get mouth bumps and sores pretty often. They come and go. Usually, when I get them, I know the next day or two is going to be pretty bad for my UC. Katie

Response:

No, that’s not what they called it. It never hurt, it just got HUGE! I took meds for it and it wouldn’t go away, just kept getting bigger. I get them all over the insides of my cheek. I still have ALOT of them. They’ve gave me meds but they still stay there. I think I told you all about the lump in my throat. I still have it too. I’ve been to my doc,my dentist and my GI doc, had an upper Gi ran, showed nothing. Now I’m going to an ENT and he said my larnyx is inflammed. He thinks it’s gerd ,acid relux or something, even tho I have NO heartburn, so he put me on prevacid for a month, it’s still there. I go back to see him the 6th of May to find out what he wants to do. Leave it to me to get things no one can do anything about..lol..but atleast they don’t really bother me, except for this lump in my throat.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It sound like the one you are discribing on the cheek to be a canker sore not oral thrush.  If you contact your dentist and see him/her they will be able to tell and if it is there is a prescription that can be taken to get rid of them.  UM MOM Susan

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I have white spots in my mouth. somtimes I get sores on my tongue, but they hurt like tiny blisters. The white spots don’t hurt, but I had to have one cut out because it got to big. The white spots I get are on the inside of my cheek. I’ve tried all those meds for them, like you have, nothing has gotten rid of mine. Kimi

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I get mouth bumps and sores pretty often. They come and go. Usually, when I get them, I know the next day or two is going to be pretty bad for my UC. Katie

Response:

It sound like the one you are discribing on the cheek to be a canker sore not oral thrush.  If you contact your dentist and see him/her they will be able to tell and if it is there is a prescription that can be taken to get rid of them.  UM MOM Susan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have white spots in my mouth. somtimes I get sores on my tongue, but they hurt like tiny blisters. The white spots don’t hurt, but I had to have one cut out because it got to big. The white spots I get are on the inside of my cheek. I’ve tried all those meds for them, like you have, nothing has gotten rid of mine. Kimi I get mouth bumps and sores pretty often. They come and go. Usually, when I get them, I know the next day or two is going to be pretty bad for my UC. Katie

Response:

I get mouth bumps and sores pretty often. They come and go. Usually, when I get them, I know the next day or two is going to be pretty bad for my UC. Katie

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I’ve been diagnosed with Ulcerative Colitis for almost a year. A few months ago, I started noticing a lump on the side of my tongue. Several weeks later, I noticed the lump seemed larger, and that another had appeared on the other side, as well as a few flat "spots" on the top of my tongue. My GI gave me a "swish and spit" type of medicine, but it didn’t seem to have any effect. When I went back, he gave me a sort of topical medicine that he said would numb them if they hurt (which they do not), and promote healing. This hasn’t seemed to work either. The doctor said they will come and go, but I haven’t seen them "go" yet. Has anybody else experienced similar symptoms? While they don’t bother me much, they aren’t the greatest things to look at (I think my girlfriend conveniently "forgets" about them when necessary ;D) and, really, something I want take care of. -Jakob P.S. I moved recently, and haven’t found a GI in the area yet. When I find someone, I will be able to ask about treatment, but I’d also like something to ask him/her when I do go, or maybe even outside treatment I can do on my own,

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Question:

Excellent explanations and suggestions Larry. Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency. Gee, thanks. )))

 When you are good, you are very, very good BTW, you are always good!

Response:

The blood pressure problems, the muscle problems. Everything. yes, I think its all related. I noticed when I took the Amantadine a while back that everything just seemed to loosen up tremendously and I felt much more relaxed physically.

I think I have GERD but I don;t know for sure – I have the symptoms — what should I do?  Everytime I swallow I get heartburn and also I seem to have sinusitis or something- gaad what a mess – I used to be "perfect" (so my husband says – even my toenails) Squiggles

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Excellent explanations and suggestions Larry. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency.

Response:

Excellent explanations and suggestions Larry. Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency.

Gee, thanks. )))

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The blood pressure problems, the muscle problems. Everything. yes, I think its all related. I noticed when I took the Amantadine a while back that everything just seemed to loosen up tremendously and I felt much more relaxed physically. I hope you’ll consider these nutritional alternatives. Your health problems might all stem from a stomach acid problem. I think the stomach acid problem very well maybe exacerbating my high blood pressure. I even had a doctor tell me that GERD/hiatal hernia can exacerbate these problems. thanks for the advice, Eric

You’re very welcome. I hope you’ll give this a try.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Eric,  what causes blood pressure to be so high in a young man.. diabetes or something liek that.. Nah I dont have diabetes. Had that checked out. I personally think it might be my hiatal hernia. If I get the least bit stressed out that sucker flares up and hurts like a mother and then all of a sudden UP goes my BP. When my hiatel hernia flares up, I get chest pain, my BP spikes, sleep deteriorates, etc. Of course all the doctors want to do is give me Prilosec or Prevacid for my hiatal hernia but I cant tolerate those drugs anymore. I feel shittier than ever on Prevacid or Prilosec but my BP does go down on these acid reducer meds. Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency. I’m not saying that’s *the* answer, but everything you describe is consistent with a digestive disorder which is caused by, and persists because of, mineral deficiency. The blood pressure problems, the muscle problems. Everything. The key mineral in this particular syndrome is magnesium. Question: Larry, do you think that if the GERD is reversed then the magnesium leak will also get reversed.  My doctor tested me for magnesium last appointment when the lithium was being tested and I wonder if there is a link here, or perhaps magnesium is just anohter indicator of cerebral tiks and GERD, etc.

Magnesium is essential for something like 300 or so different enzymatic processes. If you’re showing magnesium deficiency symptoms in some areas, you’re probably also having less obvious difficulties elsewhere, as well. If you take a magnesium supplement of sufficient dose to passively raise the blood level of magnesium, the parathyroid gland begins to "turn on" the active transport mechanism. It might take a few weeks before the active transport system really kicks in, but it may be six months before the bone reserves are adequately replenished. Magnesium supplementation should be considered a long-term process. There are many, many different and seemingly unrelated effects of magnesium deficiency. Mitral valve prolapse is one such effect. Who would have linked a heart valve problem to a mineral deficiency? Yet, it’s clearly been shown that magnesium supplementation makes that defect go away for a lot of people with that problem. Squiggles p.s. sorry about the snarky remark yesterday – I just wonder if people really need all these vitamins in the West – they seem overfed as it is – at least I am.

Not a problem. There’s a big difference between being over-fed in the sense of calories, and being over-fed in the sense of nutrients. Our diet continues to shift towards "empty" calories. Energy, without the essential nutrients that keep the factory working properly. Obesity and type 2 diabetes can rightly be considered disorders arising from malnutrition. Too much of the wrong food, and not enough of the right food.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Eric,  what causes blood pressure to be so high in a young man.. diabetes or something liek that.. Nah I dont have diabetes. Had that checked out. I personally think it might be my hiatal hernia. If I get the least bit stressed out that sucker flares up and hurts like a mother and then all of a sudden UP goes my BP. When my hiatel hernia flares up, I get chest pain, my BP spikes, sleep deteriorates, etc. Of course all the doctors want to do is give me Prilosec or Prevacid for my hiatal hernia but I cant tolerate those drugs anymore. I feel shittier than ever on Prevacid or Prilosec but my BP does go down on these acid reducer meds. Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency. I’m not saying that’s *the* answer, but everything you describe is consistent with a digestive disorder which is caused by, and persists because of, mineral deficiency. The blood pressure problems, the muscle problems. Everything. The key mineral in this particular syndrome is magnesium.

Question: Larry, do you think that if the GERD is reversed then the magnesium leak will also get reversed.  My doctor tested me for magnesium last appointment when the lithium was being tested and I wonder if there is a link here, or perhaps magnesium is just anohter indicator of cerebral tiks and GERD, etc. Squiggles p.s. sorry about the snarky remark yesterday – I just wonder if people really need all these vitamins in the West – they seem overfed as it is – at least I am. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good luck, eh? Lar

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lynda: it was a nurse practitioner that finally sent me to a neurologist.. the doctor had put it off four years…. she finally listened to me about it :0}}

Good  :)  IMO,NPs are an asset to the medical profession.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Sorry Eric,  what causes blood pressure to be so high in a young man.. diabetes or something liek that.. Nah I dont have diabetes. Had that checked out. I personally think it might be my hiatal hernia. If I get the least bit stressed out that sucker flares up and hurts like a mother and then all of a sudden UP goes my BP. When my hiatel hernia flares up, I get chest pain, my BP spikes, sleep deteriorates, etc. Of course all the doctors want to do is give me Prilosec or Prevacid for my hiatal hernia but I cant tolerate those drugs anymore. I feel shittier than ever on Prevacid or Prilosec but my BP does go down on these acid reducer meds. I mentioned surgery to my family doc the other day to repair my hiatal hernia/GERD problem and he said "I wouldnt mess with that right now." LOL Well what the fuck am I supposed to do if i cant tolerate Prilosec/Prevacid/Aciphex anymore to control it? Just suck it up? LOL Telling you, if I keep going this way Im going to die of natural causes by age 40. My body is just falling apart on me and I cant even tolerate most drugs anymore. Something is WRONG!! Something is being missed, but the doctors I go to dont seem very helpful in figuring things out. Hell, Im lucky if they spend 15 minutes with me.

Perhaps your problems might stem from a disconnect between what you know as the truth for you, and the dysfunctional belief system which you have adopted as your life style.  I think the stress there might be a root cause for you.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry Eric,  what causes blood pressure to be so high in a young man.. diabetes or something liek that.. Nah I dont have diabetes. Had that checked out. I personally think it might be my hiatal hernia. If I get the least bit stressed out that sucker flares up and hurts like a mother and then all of a sudden UP goes my BP. When my hiatel hernia flares up, I get chest pain, my BP spikes, sleep deteriorates, etc. Of course all the doctors want to do is give me Prilosec or Prevacid for my hiatal hernia but I cant tolerate those drugs anymore. I feel shittier than ever on Prevacid or Prilosec but my BP does go down on these acid reducer meds.

Eric, there’s a nutritional explanation for your symptoms, including the high blood pressure….mineral deficiency. I’m not saying that’s *the* answer, but everything you describe is consistent with a digestive disorder which is caused by, and persists because of, mineral deficiency. The blood pressure problems, the muscle problems. Everything. The key mineral in this particular syndrome is magnesium. Depression, or any other stressful experience, causes magnesium to be released in the urine. Over time, even the bone magnesium stores are depleted. Once that state is reached, a chronic deficiency syndrome takes hold because magnesium deficiency itself prevents the normal uptake of magnesium from the gut. A vicious circle takes hold. GERD is really the observed effect of two separate processes. The first is the mis-timing of release of stomach acid, and the proteolytic enzyme, pepsin. There are feed-back sensors in the lining of the stomach that measure the ratio of protein to free amino acids. If the ratio is high, acid and pepsinogen (the precursor to pepsin) are pumped into the stomach. Magnesium deficiency limits the availability of pepsinogen, so more acid is pumped in to compensate (coming late in the sequence). The acid tends to be most concentrated near the top of the stomach. In the meantime, the duodenum can spasm because it is too "twitchy", also due to magnesium deficiency. The spasm forces food backwards, pushing the highest acid contents of the stomach back into the esophagus. Ouch! I used to have GERD so bad that I often regurgitated, much more than simple reflux. I depended on Losec (Prilosec), and if I ever missed a dose, I was in big trouble. The problem is, this drug makes the mineral deficiency problem worse. Not only that, but proper stomach acid levels are required to permit B-12 absorption. The end result can be malnutrition, despite a healthy diet. Now, I no longer need acid-reduction medication. I seldom even require a dose of antacid. I still tend to have minor reflux, but it *is* minor. OK, so what do you do about it? First, you have to make sure that you have sufficient vitamin D in your diet. American consumption of vitamin D is actually in decline, despite fortification of dairy products. Vitamin D is essential for the active absorption of magnesium (literal pumping from the gut). So take a vitamin D supplement. Second, you have to significantly increase your magnesium intake. Despite the fact that normal blood levels of magnesium are required for the active transport of more magnesium from the gut, the passive absorption of magnesium (by osmosis) is driven by concentration gradients. So, a high gut magnesium level will increase the blood magnesium level. Third, take a proteolytic enzyme supplement after high-protein meals. I use bromelain (from pineapple), which not only has activity in the stomach, but also retains some activity in the small intestine. Bromelain also has anti-inflammatory activity, so that’s a bonus. It also has controlled my irritable bowel syndrome. Turmeric helps with this, as well. Fourth, take a sulphur supplement. I won’t go into the rationale (it’s very complicated), but betaine and MSM will work quite well. You might also consider taurine, but that’s more expensive. N-acetyl-cysteine is another alternative (also expensive). Fifth, take a high-dose B-12 supplement. Again, the rationale is complicated, but 1,000 mcg/day. Sixth, make sure you’re taking zinc, selenium, and chromium. If you’ve had a stomach acid dysregulatory disorder for any length of time, you’re sure to need more of these minerals (and others). I mentioned surgery to my family doc the other day to repair my hiatal hernia/GERD problem and he said "I wouldnt mess with that right now." LOL Well what the fuck am I supposed to do if i cant tolerate

Prilosec/Prevacid/Aciphex anymore to control it? Just suck it up? LOL

I hope you’ll consider these nutritional alternatives. Your health problems might all stem from a stomach acid problem. Telling you, if I keep going this way Im going to die of natural causes by age 40. My body is just falling apart on me and I cant even tolerate most drugs anymore. Something is WRONG!! Something is being missed, but the doctors I go to dont seem very helpful in figuring things out. Hell, Im lucky if they spend 15 minutes with me. Eric

Good luck, eh? Lar

Response:

Eric,    How much caffeine are you taking in? i remember you said you loved coffee.  What about coffee, colas etc.?       Doesn’t that elevate blood pressure?   and stress? cal

Response:

Seems like almost no doctor listens good. How about a Nurse Practitioner? We have a holistic approach to treatment.

lynda: it was a nurse practitioner that finally sent me to a neurologist.. the doctor had put it off four years…. she finally listened to me about it :0}} "it is so easy to return to our spirit world from where we came.  life is not easy. but life is not nearly so hard when we honor the self…." ~~ blessed are we to dwell in these beautiful temples ~~

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(((((((((((((((((((((((Eric)))))))))))))))))) Well today I have been feeling like total shit again. Blood pressure is spiking again. Today at the family doctor’s office my blood pressure was 163/91 and I am on the maximum dosage of the ACE Inhibitor Prinivil…40 mg. My chest feels like it has all this pressure in it. And I swam laps the previous four days before today too. And I just turned 33. This is bullshit. My family doctor wasnt very helpful about it. He didnt listen to what I had to say. Seems like almost no doctor listens good.

How about a Nurse Practitioner? We have a holistic approach to treatment. Im so sick of doctors and medicine and all this bullshit. What a bunch of shit. I know something else is wrong causing my blood pressure, but they wont ever figure it out. Hell they only spend 10 or 15 minutes with me. Medical care in America sucks.

 There is also the option of visiting UNC Chapel Hill for  work up. I spend at least 30 minutes with my patients. There is always teaching to be done. Peace, Lynda

Response:

(((((((((((((((((((((((Eric))))))))))))))))))

Oh brother, how come Eric gets all the hugs around here? I think I’ve killfiled – he doesn’t answer my messages anymore, and I am now turning around to consider the virtues of my doctor giving me drugs to stabilize – – maybe Eric wants me to be anti-med (snicker snicker) Squiggles

Response:

<snip Sorry to hear you’re feeling so lousy, Eric. I hope you get something figured out soon. Fiona — If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant: if we did not sometimes taste the adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome.      – Anne Bradstreet, Meditations Divine and Moral, 1664

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well today I have been feeling like total shit again. Blood pressure is spiking again. Today at the family doctor’s office my blood pressure was 163/91 and I am on the maximum dosage of the ACE Inhibitor Prinivil…40 mg. My chest feels like it has all this pressure in it. And I swam laps the previous four days before today too. And I just turned 33. This is bullshit. My family doctor wasnt very helpful about it. He didnt listen to what I had to say. Seems like almost no doctor listens good. Im so sick of doctors and medicine and all this bullshit. What a bunch of shit. I know something else is wrong causing my blood pressure, but they wont ever figure it out. Hell they only spend 10 or 15 minutes with me. Medical care in America sucks. Eric Always take your drugs…LostBoyinNC Steroids caused my depression…prednisone should be used conservatively

Hey Eric, Don’t laugh, but I’ve heard that pets can lower your blood pressure. Maybe you could get a dog?  It couldn’t hurt… Hope you get to feeling better. Flower

Response:

Well today I have been feeling like total shit again. Blood pressure is spiking again. Today at the family doctor’s office my blood pressure was 163/91 and I am on the maximum dosage of the ACE Inhibitor Prinivil…40 mg. My chest feels like it has all this pressure in it. And I swam laps the previous four days before today too. And I just turned 33. This is bullshit. My family doctor wasnt very helpful about it. He didnt listen to what I had to say. Seems like almost no doctor listens good. Im so sick of doctors and medicine and all this bullshit. What a bunch of shit. I know something else is wrong causing my blood pressure, but they wont ever figure it out. Hell they only spend 10 or 15 minutes with me. Medical care in America sucks.

Did you ever thionk God punishes assholes? It’s time you got yours!!!

Response:

I finally got my blood pressure under control on THREE different blood pressure medicines.  My father was the same way, THREE, he is now 82. Don’t give up on your doctor.  – Val in Boise

Response:

Question:

 Now I find this earlier post where you talk about prednisone and vinegar.  You don’ seem to have a clue.  <snip

 Jack, Sorry I wasn’t clear, but my stomach ache started 2 weeks before I went on Prednisone.  I have been using Prevacid for a week and I can feel the difference. I have given up the vinegar and I have only one cup of coffee a day.   thanks for the info on the goats milk. DMG

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Group: alt.support.asthma      I’m a slow typist and I just wrote you a long tiresome post where I urge you to  give up using coffee at least for a little while to see if you can bring  your poor stomach back to normal.   Now I find this earlier post where you talk about prednisone and vinegar.  You don’ seem to have a clue.    Better to use the juice of a lemon or lime on your salad than vinegar,  because it’s very easy to use too much vinegar (only a few drops. Overuse of vinegar, which is cheap,  is usually why deli salads aren’t fit to eat)    And prednisone?  Oh my dear lady!  The only medicine I can dream of worse for the stomach would be fresh peyote buttons washed down with cappuccino.

Which the La Apoteka do they stock this medicine? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     My solution for pred and other strong foods and drugs is goatmilk which is about twenty-eight percent fat and really protects me.  If you can’t get goatmilk Horizon Organic whole (cow) milk is even higher in fat and should do it. This is my central statement in this post.  It is not an assertion because it is my experience, anecdotal and true.     Your poor dear stomach can take a lot of abuse. necessary or otherwise,  if you feed it the right things.  I’m sure that’s why you use salad to begin with.—jack

Response:

 Group: alt.support.asthma   D. M. Greene) writes:

<<<… hurt worse everytime I ate.  I was on prednisone… my daily (sometimes twice daily)salad … I had thought I had a ulcer it hurt so bad. Anyone else senitive to vinegar or is it the acidic acid? I am still on a tapering dose of prednisone… Thanks for any advice. Donna    I’m a slow typist and I just wrote you a long tiresome post where I urge you to  give up using coffee at least for a little while to see if you can bring  your poor stomach back to normal.   Now I find this earlier post where you talk about prednisone and vinegar.  You don’ seem to have a clue.    Better to use the juice of a lemon or lime on your salad than vinegar,  because it’s very easy to use too much vinegar (only a few drops. Overuse of vinegar, which is cheap,  is usually why deli salads aren’t fit to eat)    And prednisone?  Oh my dear lady!  The only medicine I can dream of worse for the stomach would be fresh peyote buttons washed down with cappuccino.     My solution for pred and other strong foods and drugs is goatmilk which is about twenty-eight percent fat and really protects me.  If you can’t get goatmilk Horizon Organic whole (cow) milk is even higher in fat and should do it. This is my central statement in this post.  It is not an assertion because it is my experience, anecdotal and true.     Your poor dear stomach can take a lot of abuse. necessary or otherwise,  if you feed it the right things.  I’m sure that’s why you use salad to begin with.—jack

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(D. M. Greene) writes: You are right I did mean acetic acid.  I thought acid reflux was higher up.  This pain is

  is on the left side right under my ribs.  I will tell the Dr. I am able to dull it with rolaids and zantex but as soon as I eat it comes right back. My original lung problem was caused by an exposure to bromine with a very strong reaction to any lab, especially acetic acid, chemicals.  I am trying to stay bland and away from any other acids.  It is just not working at the moment. Thanks for responding Donna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess you mean acetic acid, not acidic acid.  I might suggest you talk to your doctor about the possibilty that you suffer from acid reflux. Israel Weber

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(D. M. Greene) writes: I wrote a few weeks ago about reacting to mowing the lawn.  Well I never really got better.  Still had a terrible stomach ache which hurt worse everytime I ate. Even though I was on prednisone I was still SOB most of the time.  It took me quite a while to realize it was the vinegar on my daily (sometimes twice daily)salad that was causing the reaction.  I had thought I had a ulcer it hurt so bad. Anyone else senitive to vinegar or is it the acidic acid? I am still on a tapering dose of prednisone and I am still having some problems. I do have a family physican but I really feel his knowledge is limited as far as my asthma is concerned. My lung Dr. is away to next week so I am on my own. Anyone know how long it will take for the reaction to go away? Thanks for any advice. Donna

I guess you mean acetic acid, not acidic acid.  I might suggest you talk to your doctor about the possibilty that you suffer from acid reflux. Israel Weber

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I wrote a few weeks ago about reacting to mowing the lawn.  Well I never really got better.  Still had a terrible stomach ache which hurt worse everytime I ate. Even though I was on prednisone I was still SOB most of the time.  It took me quite a while to realize it was the vinegar on my daily (sometimes twice daily)salad that was causing the reaction.  I had thought I had a ulcer it hurt so bad. Anyone else senitive to vinegar or is it the acidic acid?

Gastrointestinal reflux is a known trigger of asthma, laryngeal spasm, etc.  If you have a chronic stomach ache, then reflux is a real possibility.  Consuming acidic foods (vinegar, orange juice, etc.) can bring on the same symptoms that aspirating stomach acid will bring on. You should see your physician.  If he diagnoses reflux, then he can prescribe anti-acid medication (Prilosec, Prevacid). — Steven D. Litvintchouk                   "I guess I could have paid a little closer attention when I was in English class, but it all worked out OK.  I’m gainfully employed."      – President George W. Bush

Response:

I wrote a few weeks ago about reacting to mowing the lawn.  Well I never really got better.  Still had a terrible stomach ache which hurt worse everytime I ate. Even though I was on prednisone I was still SOB most of the time.  It took me quite a while to realize it was the vinegar on my daily (sometimes twice daily)salad that was causing the reaction.  I had thought I had a ulcer it hurt so bad. Anyone else senitive to vinegar or is it the acidic acid? I am still on a tapering dose of prednisone and I am still having some problems. I do have a family physican but I really feel his knowledge is limited as far as my asthma is concerned. My lung Dr. is away to next week so I am on my own. Anyone know how long it will take for the reaction to go away? Thanks for any advice. Donna

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Question:

Hi Jo, thanks for the reply. I was originally classified as a "B27 spondioarthropathy" Unfortunately, we have one these diseases that are not clear cut in the diagnosis. Gord – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m anxious to hear on this one too.  I’ve got more symptoms but my RD is pretty sure I have PA (and some other stuff, DDD and some AS) and keeps looking for and asking about skin stuff.  I get some dry flaky spots but just minor stuff.  So far two toes and one finger completely rigid.  Just a note, it was one toe, but while my insurance was messing around with what they would approve and Dr was trying a variety of stuff, the second toe and a finger went stiff.  I’m now on Azulfidine, MTX, Celebrex and haven’t lost a joint since. Just one of the contradictions I hate about all the "kinds" of arthritis. It’s frustrating to not have a firm diagnosis but on the other hand I can’t think of any one of them I want it to be either. Right now my chart says "nondifferentiating spondiloarthropathy" which I’m pretty sure if the medical term for "beats me" — Jo Firey

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I have PA but also mild psoriasis.  But it sometimes happens that the Psoriasis shows up at some later time. You are so lucky to have no pain.  But I fear that will come in time, for you. The erosion in your digits is fairly common with PA. And your RD is correct.  You need a dmard to hopefully slow the progression of the disease. Sorry the news wastn better.  Good luck.  And stick around.  This is a good place to be. Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

Hi Gord, After 3 rd’s and 5 years of an RA diagnosis I have "undifferentiated B27 spondalaprothy with enthosopathy"  I translate that into "different – we don’t have a clue what you have" (I have left out the swear word’s in between. I have swollen hands, swollen feet, wrists are swollen and sore and quite often red, jaw occasionally, ribs occasionally, shoulders very often, no back problems, knees – often, hips swollen and sore today but not always, ankles – almost always.  Because it is in the tendons and ligaments they say I will have no joint damage – maybe. I is almost 7 years since I got this.  I am on prednisone (my lifesaver – what gets me out of bed) celebrex, arava twice a week due to low wbc, plaquenil (1 a day due to eye problems if I take 2 a day but does diddly squat that I can see but makes my doctor feel better), prevacid for stomach problems, nadolol for high blood pressure from celebrex and arava, fosamax and premarin.  I have been on everything else available to me in Canada – except the trials for remicade and enbrel which hopefully will be as soon as pharmacare approves the cost.   I understand frustration – There is not a part of me today that is not aching and swollen I swear.  But no time for this – my son grads on Thursday and I have 22 for dinner on Friday.  Thank goodness for sister in laws and moms – they are helping cook. Good luck – maybe this will help.  We treat mine the same as RA. Kelly – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few people asked me to tell them what my RD had said on my last Friday’s visit. A little history: I’ve been diagnosed with arthritis for 3 years now. I am Seronegative, B27 positive. For the 1st two years, I had only a couple of toes that were swollen. In the last year, two more toes became swollen, slight discomfort in my left ankle and just recently, a swollen digit due to tendonitis. (Cortisone shot fixed that) Throughout inception, I have NEVER had any pain in my foot unless I walk on it. Sitting or standing results in no pain. X-rays show slight erosive joints in my toes. I was never really classified in any one particular type of arthritis (not enough symptoms), until now. She was still a little hesitant in coming straight out with a diagnosis, but upon pressing, she said I could have P.A., but without the psoriasis. I been on a number of NSAIDS, but they have not reduced any swelling. I could even stop taking NSAIDS and still NOT have any pain sitting or standing. Due to the swelling, she suggested I try a DMARD (Sulphasalazine) along with my Voltaren. For some reason, I had thought, erosive meant Osteoarthritis, but she said not in my case. So that’s where I am right now. Anyone else out there with PA without the psoriasis? Thanks, Gord

Response:

Right now my chart says "nondifferentiating spondiloarthropathy" which I’m pretty sure if the medical term for "beats me" —

LOL  I think that is what I really have.  A previous RD (that I left after 2 visits) put the label of PA on me because I have psoriasis.  The new one just never changed it. Although I have symptoms (and diagnosis, for that matter) of multiple things. Yep  I believe I have "beats me" disease.  rofl Char "Remember, I’m pulling for ya’.  We’re all in this together."  Red Green

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few people asked me to tell them what my RD had said on my last Friday’s visit. A little history: I’ve been diagnosed with arthritis for 3 years now. I am Seronegative, B27 positive. For the 1st two years, I had only a couple of toes that were swollen. In the last year, two more toes became swollen, slight discomfort in my left ankle and just recently, a swollen digit due to tendonitis. (Cortisone shot fixed that) Throughout inception, I have NEVER had any pain in my foot unless I walk on it. Sitting or standing results in no pain. X-rays show slight erosive joints in my toes. I was never really classified in any one particular type of arthritis (not enough symptoms), until now. She was still a little hesitant in coming straight out with a diagnosis, but upon pressing, she said I could have P.A., but without the psoriasis. I been on a number of NSAIDS, but they have not reduced any swelling. I could even stop taking NSAIDS and still NOT have any pain sitting or standing. Due to the swelling, she suggested I try a DMARD (Sulphasalazine) along with my Voltaren. For some reason, I had thought, erosive meant Osteoarthritis, but she said not in my case. So that’s where I am right now. Anyone else out there with PA without the psoriasis? Thanks, Gord

I’m anxious to hear on this one too.  I’ve got more symptoms but my RD is pretty sure I have PA (and some other stuff, DDD and some AS) and keeps looking for and asking about skin stuff.  I get some dry flaky spots but just minor stuff.  So far two toes and one finger completely rigid.  Just a note, it was one toe, but while my insurance was messing around with what they would approve and Dr was trying a variety of stuff, the second toe and a finger went stiff.  I’m now on Azulfidine, MTX, Celebrex and haven’t lost a joint since. Just one of the contradictions I hate about all the "kinds" of arthritis. It’s frustrating to not have a firm diagnosis but on the other hand I can’t think of any one of them I want it to be either.  Right now my chart says "nondifferentiating spondiloarthropathy" which I’m pretty sure if the medical term for "beats me" — Jo Firey

Response:

A few people asked me to tell them what my RD had said on my last Friday’s visit. A little history: I’ve been diagnosed with arthritis for 3 years now. I am Seronegative, B27 positive. For the 1st two years, I had only a couple of toes that were swollen. In the last year, two more toes became swollen, slight discomfort in my left ankle and just recently, a swollen digit due to tendonitis. (Cortisone shot fixed that) Throughout inception, I have NEVER had any pain in my foot unless I walk on it. Sitting or standing results in no pain. X-rays show slight erosive joints in my toes. I was never really classified in any one particular type of arthritis (not enough symptoms), until now. She was still a little hesitant in coming straight out with a diagnosis, but upon pressing, she said I could have P.A., but without the psoriasis. I been on a number of NSAIDS, but they have not reduced any swelling. I could even stop taking NSAIDS and still NOT have any pain sitting or standing. Due to the swelling, she suggested I try a DMARD (Sulphasalazine) along with my Voltaren. For some reason, I had thought, erosive meant Osteoarthritis, but she said not in my case. So that’s where I am right now. Anyone else out there with PA without the psoriasis? Thanks, Gord

Response:

A few people asked me to tell them what my RD had said on my last Friday’s visit. A little history: I’ve been diagnosed with arthritis for 3 years now. I am Seronegative, B27 positive. For the 1st two years, I had only a couple of toes that were swollen. In the last year, two more toes became swollen, slight discomfort in my left ankle and just recently, a swollen digit due to tendonitis. (Cortisone shot fixed that) Throughout inception, I have NEVER had any pain in my foot unless I walk on it. Sitting or standing results in no pain. X-rays show slight erosive joints in my toes. I was never really classified in any one particular type of arthritis (not enough symptoms), until now. She was still a little hesitant in coming straight out with a diagnosis, but upon pressing, she said I could have P.A., but without the psoriasis. I been on a number of NSAIDS, but they have not reduced any swelling. I could even stop taking NSAIDS and still NOT have any pain sitting or standing. Due to the swelling, she suggested I try a DMARD (Sulphasalazine) along with my Voltaren. For some reason, I had thought, erosive meant Osteoarthritis, but she said not in my case. So that’s where I am right now. Anyone else out there with PA without the psoriasis? Thanks, Gord

Response:

Question:

Buck Rogers (n…@spam.com.au) wrote:

: why didn’t you use earplugs? foam earplugs are nice : and soft and mould to the inside of your ear. A caveat with earplugs is you need a loud alarm clock. Easy to solve with a clock radio but causes the collateral problem of dusturbing others if applicable. — FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run. The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust. The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.

Response:

<drnking…@aol.com

wrote in message news:9d71vh$rqi$1@news.netmar.com…

Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of sleep that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and always shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in with me. ………………………………………………………. It should of stop here if you advised the snorer to go to a sleep centre and got his problem fixed you would not of had your problem ………………………………………………………..

Response:

drnking…@aol.com wrote:

Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of sleep that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and always shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in with me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol PM and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I started turning on the fan at night to drown it out.

Maybe you got used to the noise of the snoring and the fan (and now it’s too quiet)? Try fan again. Look up "sleep hygiene" and follow it as closely as possible. If you are going to nap, seems to me you need to be very physically active between the nap time and the sleep time (but not too close to nap time).  Bath is good a few hours before sleep (as a relaxant) as long as you don’t get involved in activities afterwards that tend to negate this.  (so you need a step-by-step "wind down" routine at night). Klonopin (Clonazepam) is also great as an anti-anxiety/stress, even at very low dose (instead of Ambien). Most people have some problems re-adjusting sleep when there are life changes. (and you’ve just changed residences and room-mates?) Avoid booze and coffee (stomach problems and sleep).  You might also have GERD, esophagitis, if not an ulcer. Since you mentioned "campus", I’ll conclude that you are "younger"..far too young to get trapped in these vicious cycles of pills, poor sleep, gastro problems. Once some problems are ruled out medically, try to get some routine (diet, exercise, sleep)  and avoid the obvious (see "sleep hygiene" on net searches). HTH J

Response:

Hey, thanks for the reply.  I don’t think I ever got used to the snoring. The fan has never bothered me, I had it on this weekend, but since I’ve been doing fine on the weekend anyway….  I’ll try it tonight and see if it helps.  At this point it is more the physical anxiety feeling that is keeping me up.  I am going to the Dr. today and we’ll see if he can’t clear up the stomach thing, since that is really bothering me and making it harder to focus on the other stuff.  Of course, if it is just excess acid from the anxiety, who knows if he can do anything.  I don’t think it is the GERD since it isn’t heartburn, just a nausea and sometimes cramps in the very low stomach/upper intestine area. I’m 22, so hopefully I am in fact "too young" to get caught up in this.  I just can’t imagine dealing with this for the rest of my life, since the quality of life has decreased so much over the past 4 months.  This sort of thing does run in the family though, so we’ll see.   I’ve tried some of the sleep hygiene stuff, my brain doesn’t seem to fall for it though.  I took a couple kava kava pills last night which seemed to relax me a bit, so maybe I’ll try that with a bath tonight.  Pending what the Doctor says, of course.  I am also planning to start excercising, but that’s really hard to even think about with the nausea and tiredness. Thanks for the input. -Dave In article <3AF7EE0B.A57FB…@home.com

, J Wootton  <jwoot…@home.com

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Maybe you got used to the noise of the snoring and the fan (and now it’s too quiet)? Try fan again. Look up "sleep hygiene" and follow it as closely as possible. If you are going to nap, seems to me you need to be very physically active

between

the nap time and the sleep time (but not too close to nap time).  Bath is

good a

few hours before sleep (as a relaxant) as long as you don’t get involved in activities afterwards that tend to negate this.  (so you need a step-by-step

"wind

down" routine at night). Klonopin (Clonazepam) is also great as an anti-anxiety/stress, even at very

low

dose (instead of Ambien). Most people have some problems re-adjusting sleep when there are life

changes. (and

you’ve just changed residences and room-mates?) Avoid booze and coffee (stomach problems and sleep).  You might also have

GERD,

esophagitis, if not an ulcer. Since you mentioned "campus", I’ll conclude that you are "younger"..far too

young

to get trapped in these vicious cycles of pills, poor sleep, gastro problems.

Once

some problems are ruled out medically, try to get some routine (diet,

exercise,

sleep)  and avoid the obvious (see "sleep hygiene" on net searches). HTH J

 —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

why didn’t you use earplugs? foam earplugs are nice and soft and mould to the inside of your ear. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -drnking…@aol.com wrote:

Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of sleep that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and always shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in with me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol PM and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I started turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few good nights sleep (week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no apparent reason. Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was there and I was focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for 3 months, and I tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and eventually had to resort to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I know, I know, but I was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t like taking it simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d wait until after an hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice waking up on the Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off no problem. I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room by myself, with 2 quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same time as me.  The first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times to overpower a bad stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second week, great sleep every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week though, I couldn’t fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic that I was sleeping well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that caused a Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would go away once the snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain somehow. Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and Saturday nights, I would assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about getting to sleep since I can sleep in the next day. Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how calm, laid back, un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that I’ve never been anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am like that on the outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m noticing much more emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that night and the next day) and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach problems, but I think that is related to the problem I had that first week, and I’m going in tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial infection.  Gonna mention sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to nap whenever I was laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able to anymore.  I would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting there thinking "I used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I miss these friday afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax me. Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily precise, too little and it doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and can’t fall asleep. Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar and drink a ton and sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no hangover). -Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do once or twice per week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning too) -St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking it may be part of my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but that was last night, am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it, but it is a life saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA, but this crap is getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is no snoring) when I go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks straight.  Previously I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of tossing/turning, when the emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep good for 2 weeks straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will discontinue it on a weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be counteracted by my good weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just wondering if anyone with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to overcome it.  Like I said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til noon on weekends and feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes at 8am).  I have woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a sunday at 7 when I’d normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get the same anxious feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to stress about it….. ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has some insight or suggestions. Thank you -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

Doctor gave me 1mg klonopin to take at bedtime for 1-2 weeks to try and relieve the anxiety and get me to sleep.  I’m thinking 1/2mg might be better to prevent a hangover.  She said take it for at least a week straight at bedtime, don’t wait until I have tossed and turned for 2 hours.  Also gave me prevacid for my stomach, awaiting h. pylori test to come back to see if it could be an ulcer.  I agree with what she said, that I just need to break this cycle.  Of course I may be agreeing out of wishful thinking. We’ll see…. Thanks for the input. -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

Hoping for success.  Let us know and perhaps once you’ve re-established your sleep patterns, you can wean yourself off the Klonopin. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -drnking…@aol.com wrote:

Doctor gave me 1mg klonopin to take at bedtime for 1-2 weeks to try and relieve the anxiety and get me to sleep.  I’m thinking 1/2mg might be better to prevent a hangover.  She said take it for at least a week straight at bedtime, don’t wait until I have tossed and turned for 2 hours.  Also gave me prevacid for my stomach, awaiting h. pylori test to come back to see if it could be an ulcer.  I agree with what she said, that I just need to break this cycle.  Of course I may be agreeing out of wishful thinking. We’ll see…. Thanks for the input. -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

        Is Klonopin or Lorazepam safer long term than Ambien? -Fred "Lenny Abbey" <lab…@mindspring.com

wrote in message

news:9d89h6$s1h$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

You are hooked on Ambien. Quit it completely, immediately, if you can. If you must be hooked, be hooked on a drug which is acceptable for long-term use, such as Klonopin or Simemet. Lenny — Lenny Abbey Atlanta, Georgia USA <drnking…@aol.com wrote in message news:9d71vh$rqi$1@news.netmar.com… Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep,

but

this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of sleep that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and always shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in with me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol PM and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I started turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few good nights

sleep

(week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no apparent reason. Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was there and I was focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for 3 months, and

I

tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and eventually had to resort to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I know, I know, but

I

was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t like taking

it

simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d wait until after an hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice waking up on the Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off no problem. I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room by myself,

with

2 quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same time as me.  The first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times to overpower

a

bad stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second week, great sleep every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week though, I couldn’t fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic that I was sleeping well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that caused a Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would go away once

the

snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain somehow. Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and Saturday nights, I would assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about getting to sleep since I can sleep in the next day. Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how calm, laid back, un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that I’ve never been anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am like that on the outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m noticing much more emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that night and the next day) and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach problems, but I think that is related to the problem I had that first week, and I’m going in tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial infection.  Gonna mention sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to nap whenever

I

was laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able to anymore.

I

would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting there thinking "I used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I miss these

friday

afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax me. Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily precise, too little

and

it doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and can’t fall asleep. Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar and drink a

ton

and sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no hangover). -Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do once or twice

per

week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning too) -St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking it may be

part

of my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but that was last night, am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it, but it is a life saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA, but this crap

is

getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is no snoring)

when

I go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks straight.

Previously

I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of tossing/turning, when the emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep good for 2 weeks straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will discontinue it on a weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be counteracted by my good weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just wondering if anyone with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to overcome it.  Like

I

said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til noon on

weekends

and feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes at 8am).  I

have

woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a sunday at 7 when

I’d

normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get the same

anxious

feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to stress about

it…..

ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has some insight

or

suggestions. Thank you -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the eb  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other

posts

made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

You are hooked on Ambien. Quit it completely, immediately, if you can. If you must be hooked, be hooked on a drug which is acceptable for long-term use, such as Klonopin or Simemet. Lenny — Lenny Abbey Atlanta, Georgia USA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<drnking…@aol.com

wrote in message news:9d71vh$rqi$1@news.netmar.com… Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of

sleep

that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and

always

shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in

with

me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol

PM

and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I

started

turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few good nights sleep (week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no apparent

reason.

Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was there and I was focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for 3 months, and I tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and eventually had to

resort

to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I know, I know, but I was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t like taking it simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d wait until after

an

hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice waking up on

the

Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off no problem. I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room by myself, with

2

quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same time as me.  The first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times to overpower a

bad

stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second week, great sleep every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week though, I

couldn’t

fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic that I was

sleeping

well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that caused a Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would go away once the snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain somehow. Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and Saturday nights, I

would

assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about getting to sleep

since I

can sleep in the next day. Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how calm, laid

back,

un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that I’ve never been anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am like that on the outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m noticing much more emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that night and the next

day)

and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach problems, but I

think

that is related to the problem I had that first week, and I’m going in tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial infection.  Gonna

mention

sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to nap whenever I

was

laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able to anymore.  I would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting there thinking "I used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I miss these friday afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax me. Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily precise, too little and

it

doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and can’t fall asleep. Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar and drink a ton

and

sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no hangover). -Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do once or twice per week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning too) -St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking it may be part

of

my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but that was last

night,

am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it, but it is a life saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA, but this crap is getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is no snoring) when

I

go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks straight.  Previously I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of tossing/turning, when the emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep good for 2

weeks

straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will discontinue it

on a

weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be counteracted by my good weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just wondering if

anyone

with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to overcome it.  Like I said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til noon on weekends

and

feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes at 8am).  I have woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a sunday at 7 when I’d normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get the same anxious feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to stress about it….. ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has some insight or suggestions. Thank you -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the

eb  —–

  http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+

groups

   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

ab…@newsone.net

Response:

Dave, Several years ago a good friend of my told me that she always felt comfortable telling me her woes. Mostly because, she knew that no matter how miserable she was, I would retell some personal experience of my own that was inevitably far worse than her own and ultimately make her feel better to know that some one has had it worse. Dave, you have just made me feel much better. I’m kinda new to this sleep disorder stuff. I don’t have any advise to offer, sorry. I hope all turns out well for you. Best of luck, Mark <drnking…@aol.com

wrote in message

news:9d71vh$rqi$1@news.netmar.com…

Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to

fall asleep, but

this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe

3 nights of sleep

that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4

years and always

shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy

snorer moved in with

me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only

through Tylenol PM

and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the

room and I started

turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few

good nights sleep

(week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no

apparent reason.

Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was

there and I was

focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for

3 months, and I

tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and

eventually had to resort – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I

know, I know, but I

was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t

like taking it

simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d

wait until after an

hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice

waking up on the

Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off

no problem.

I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room

by myself, with 2

quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same

time as me.  The

first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times

to overpower a bad

stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second

week, great sleep

every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week

though, I couldn’t

fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic

that I was sleeping

well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that

caused a

Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would

go away once the

snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain

somehow.

Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and

Saturday nights, I would

assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about

getting to sleep since I

can sleep in the next day. Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how

calm, laid back,

un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that

I’ve never been

anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am

like that on the

outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m

noticing much more

emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that

night and the next day)

and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach

problems, but I think

that is related to the problem I had that first week, and

I’m going in

tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial

infection.  Gonna mention – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to

nap whenever I was

laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able

to anymore.  I

would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting

there thinking "I

used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I

miss these friday

afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax

me.

Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily

precise, too little and it

doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and

can’t fall asleep.

Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar

and drink a ton and

sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no

hangover).

-Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do

once or twice per

week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning

too)

-St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking

it may be part of

my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but

that was last night,

am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it,

but it is a life

saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA,

but this crap is

getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is

no snoring) when I

go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks

straight.  Previously

I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of

tossing/turning, when the

emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep

good for 2 weeks

straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will

discontinue it on a

weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be

counteracted by my good

weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just

wondering if anyone

with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to

overcome it.  Like I

said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til

noon on weekends and

feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes

at 8am).  I have

woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a

sunday at 7 when I’d

normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get

the same anxious

feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to

stress about it…..

ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has

some insight or

suggestions. Thank you -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet

News via the Web  —–

  http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous

posting to 60,000+ groups

   NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this

or other posts

made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email

ab…@newsone.net

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<drnking…@aol.com

wrote in message news:9d71vh$rqi$1@news.netmar.com… Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of

sleep

that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and

always

shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in

with

me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol

PM

and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I

started

turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few good nights sleep (week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no apparent

reason.

Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was there and I was focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for 3 months, and I tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and eventually had to

resort

to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I know, I know, but I was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t like taking it simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d wait until after

an

hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice waking up on

the

Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off no problem. I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room by myself, with

2

quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same time as me.  The first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times to overpower a

bad

stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second week, great sleep every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week though, I

couldn’t

fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic that I was

sleeping

well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that caused a Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would go away once the snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain somehow. Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and Saturday nights, I

would

assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about getting to sleep

since I

can sleep in the next day. Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how calm, laid

back,

un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that I’ve never been anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am like that on the outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m noticing much more emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that night and the next

day)

and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach problems, but I

think

that is related to the problem I had that first week, and I’m going in tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial infection.  Gonna

mention

sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to nap whenever I

was

laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able to anymore.  I would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting there thinking "I used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I miss these friday afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax me. Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily precise, too little and

it

doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and can’t fall asleep. Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar and drink a ton

and

sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no hangover). -Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do once or twice per week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning too) -St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking it may be part

of

my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but that was last

night,

am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it, but it is a life saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA, but this crap is getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is no snoring) when

I

go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks straight.  Previously I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of tossing/turning, when the emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep good for 2

weeks

straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will discontinue it

on a

weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be counteracted by my good weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just wondering if

anyone

with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to overcome it.  Like I said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til noon on weekends

and

feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes at 8am).  I have woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a sunday at 7 when I’d normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get the same anxious feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to stress about it….. ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has some insight or suggestions. Thank you -Dave

Dave, Maybe you should just print out what you just wrote and take it to the Doctor and let him read it. If not, be sure that you tell him all the medications that you have tried and how long you have tried them.  Perhaps you haven’t given each of them a good try, sometimes it takes a while for medications to work. Sharon

Response:

Okay, here is some history: I’ve never been a deep sleeper, always took 15-30 mins to fall asleep, but this wasn’t a problem.  Up until January, I’ve lost maybe 3 nights of sleep that I can remember. To make a long story short, I lived on campus for nearly 4 years and always shared a room.  Not a problem until January when a heavy snorer moved in with me.  After a week of little sleep (which was gained only through Tylenol PM and sleeping at other peoples’ places), we re-arranged the room and I started turning on the fan at night to drown it out.  Got a few good nights sleep (week or so) but then started having trouble again, for no apparent reason. Now it wasn’t the sheer volume of it, just that it was there and I was focusing on it/getting annoyed with it.  This went on for 3 months, and I tried various herbs (Kava Kava, Valerian Root) and eventually had to resort to taking Ambien that another family member gave me (I know, I know, but I was desperate).  Ambien knocked me right out, but I didn’t like taking it simply because I don’t want to become dependant, so I’d wait until after an hour or 2 of tossing and turning to take it.  I did notice waking up on the Ambien after about 4 hours but could doze right back off no problem. I moved a month ago to my own off-campus place, in a room by myself, with 2 quiet apartment mates that go to bed before/at the same time as me.  The first week I was real sick so I took Ambien a couple times to overpower a bad stomach ache I had that was keeping me up.  The second week, great sleep every night with no Ambien.  The Tuesday of the next week though, I couldn’t fall asleep again (for no reason really, I was exstatic that I was sleeping well, and assumed I was "all better"), and of course that caused a Domino effect.  So my problem now is that I was hoping it would go away once the snoring was gone, but it seems to have "damaged" my brain somehow. Funny thing is, I have been sleeping great on Friday and Saturday nights, I would assume the 2 nights that I don’t have to worry about getting to sleep since I can sleep in the next day.   Funny thing is, EVERYONE I know used to always tell me how calm, laid back, un-stressed, and un-emotional I was.  I can’t say that I’ve never been anxious, but nothing to this extent by far.  I still am like that on the outside (partly because I’m so tired), but now I’m noticing much more emotions (mostly dread at having to face the bed that night and the next day) and much more stress/anxiety.I’ve also had some stomach problems, but I think that is related to the problem I had that first week, and I’m going in tomorrow to get checked for an ulcer or bacterial infection.  Gonna mention sleep too. Another thing that bothers me is that I used to be able to nap whenever I was laying on the couch or in bed, now I don’t seem to be able to anymore.  I would assume for the same reason, because I’m sitting there thinking "I used to be able to sleep like this, why can’t I anymore".  I miss these friday afternoon and midmorning naps, they used to really relax me. Okay, I’ll try to finish up: I have tried: -Warm bath (nada) -Kava Kava (nada) -Valerian Root(nada) -Melatonin 3mg(some success, not consistent though) -Beer/Wine (decent success but it has to be farily precise, too little and it doesn’t work, too much and I’m wide awake at 4 am and can’t fall asleep. Which is another strange thing, I used to go out to a bar and drink a ton and sleep like a baby, even wake up feeling great with no hangover). -Tylenol/Excedrin PM (works pretty well but can only do once or twice per week before tolerance sets in, a bit drowsier in the morning too) -St. Johns Wort for 1.5 weeks (nada, discontinued thinking it may be part of my stomach problems) -250magnesium + 250calcium 1 hour before bed (nada, but that was last night, am going to double the dose tonight) -Ambien (knocks me out but I’m not comfortable with it, but it is a life saver some nights) My options: -Continue fooling with natural stuff, next step is GABA, but this crap is getting expensive. -Take the Ambien (5mg has been working now that there is no snoring) when I go to sleep every night except the weekends for 2 weeks straight.  Previously I’ve been taking it after an hour or two of tossing/turning, when the emotional stress is already done.  I’m thinking if I sleep good for 2 weeks straight the mental anguish may be relieved.  Also I will discontinue it on a weekend so if there is any withdrawl it will be counteracted by my good weekend sleeping. I will also mention it to the doctor tomorrow, I’m just wondering if anyone with this anxiety sleep block has found a good way to overcome it.  Like I said, once I fall asleep, I’m golden, I can sleep in til noon on weekends and feel like I could on weekdays (if it weren’t for classes at 8am).  I have woken up a couple of times, once at 4am and once on a sunday at 7 when I’d normally go back to sleep and not been able to, but I get the same anxious feeling, probably meaning my brain woke up enough to stress about it….. ARGH sorry for the long post, I’m just hoping SOMEONE has some insight or suggestions. Thank you -Dave  —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free (anonymous) Usenet News via the Web  —–   http://newsone.net/ — Free reading and anonymous posting to 60,000+ groups    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts made through NewsOne.Net violate posting guidelines, email ab…@newsone.net

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing. … for the worse.  I have nothing against "alternative" treatments if they can allow themselves to be scrutinized in the same manner as modern treatments; id est: clinical trials.  Would you trust a car that was built but never tested?

Sure. We all did this for years and years. Testing vehicles is new. And you mean scientific emperical testing, which we didn’t have ourselves until recently. Are you forgetting that ideas like bloodletting were ours? Are you aware that Dr.s now actually use LEECHES for some treatments? I can list more.. read my other post and spare me the time. I haven’t heard of any validated cases where an entire group of people using alternative treatments recovered from their illnesses, as shown by some standard test (not anecdote), wherein the modern treatments failed to do the same.

I haven’t read any either. But so what? I have read of people who use alternative medicines to good avail. I have seen Dr. Weils website, have you? I have read Dr. Koops website..have you? I suppose they’re full of shit. This is sounding so familiar.  There are a bunch of alternative treatment advocates on sci.skeptic arguing about the "rebirthing" death in my state, Colorado.  Unless the alternative treatment can be shown by clinical trials, and not anecdotal evidence, it has no reason to be considered efficable.

No. there’s reason. See my other posts and find out more about it yourself. If you really think none of these treatments are good, or work, or have evidence to back them up, take another look. I’ll agree that there are many of them out there that have potential to be considered efficable, such as chiropractics (which is already mainstream),

Mainstream. I’ve used chiros for years and have only found a few dr.s in the last few years who don’t show an obvious distaste for it. some herbals, and maybe, just maybe accupuncture (which still requires more study).  Just remember this, a highly regarded treatment used by professional nurses, therapeutic touch, was dashed against the rocks by a 12 year old girl in a simple experiment which showed that there was no effect above chance.

Lots more have been found to be bogus, too. But let’s not forget the bogus shit western tradition puts out. I was on prevacid for almost ten years… until one day I said .. these guys are idiots. I changed my diet slightly and reduced my stress with yoga.. and I haven’t touched that prevacid since. I sure paid for a lot of it, though. I suggest you take a look at mary shomons site.. at about.com, on thryoid conditions. You’ll find that a LOT of Dr.s don’t even know what the hell they are doing. Homeopathic medicine has never shown a significant result in a clinical trial, the only purported result being the placebo effect (and maybe that drinking more water is good for you). Since this is off-topic for this group, I will abstain from any more on this.  I will say that the fervor that alternative medicine advocates have toward a bunch of unproven treatment practices is starting to amount to a religious one.

It can. No doubt. And some are not very good. The worst ones, like badly practiced western medicine, are even dangerous.  Prove their efficacy, then boast about their superiority, eh.  It would appear that I’ll be doing much more reading on this to better confront such zealousness. Robert Templeton

I’ll be glad when you do. Try the thyroid site for starters. That’ll get you going on the idea that western medicine sometimes has it’s head firmly planted rearward too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is

costly. Let’s take a look at some of the third world voodoo, shall we? The American Dr. who went to Africa and spent a couple of years studying with one of the few Oral Tradition ‘witchdoctors’ (OUR white appellation) left. Gee…what do we find… a large compound about twenty feet high which is all shelves loaded with plants.. that the guy spent a lifetime memorizing. The Dr. found not one, not two, but many many plants which contained trace elements of the same drugs western medicine had been using for years for conditions that were serious.. heart problems, liver problems.. all efficacious. aloe vera..ever heard of it? traditional american indian medicine. works VERY well.. I once picked up a soldering Iron I thought was turned off… I smelled me burning before I felt the pain… sliced open my aloe plant and played that night with no pain. I healed at least twice as fast. throughout the world the breathing exercises of Yoga, alone, have gained acceptance and appreciation by many people, Dr.s included, because they reduce stress, and more. Ayurvedic medicine.. works. Homeopathy.. recommended by several of my Dr.s and many more. Chiropracty is still regarded as voodoo by some, and I don’t have to tell you how many people will settle for nothing less. I can go on here..for a long time, but I think I’ve made my point. While other medical philosophies have been treated with disregard and scorn, since the first day our priests showed up and attempted to destroy everything from other cultures–even our own.. witches, ‘the wise’, were simply people who knew plants–studys show, time and again that, given the lack of scientific background, the knowledge these people had was pretty damned amazing. You do what you want.  I don’t mind. But it’s not voodoo. and it doesn’t just come from third world countries. by the way… some of those third world countries are responsible for a good deal of medicine we still use today under different names. You ought to take your american bigotry to the library and see how it holds up. Have a nice day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is costly.

Western medicine doesn’t have a handle on everything.  Just because it hasn’t been approved by the AMA, doesn’t make it "3rd World voodoo". Remember…the AMA is a business…the business of pushing drugs.  The AMA cannot own and/or regulate vitamins, herbs, acupuncture, acupressure, etc..therefore, there is just no profit in it for them.  It’s all about the money, honey. The Tobacco industry is still saying there is no link between smoking and cancer.  I don’t put a whole lot of stock in the Tobacco industry’s "research"…do you?  Likewise, the AMA has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo…if you really do some research on the matter, you’ll learn that there have been more than a few double-blind studies that have been ignored by the AMA on a variety of diseases. I’m not saying one should swallow the whole "weeds-and-seeds" philosophy totally…just that it needs to be looked into more than it has.  Research is costly…unless of course, it’s you or a loved one that is wasting away…hair and teeth falling out from chemo…and screaming and screaming and screaming themselves to death in a cancer ward, because the cancer has gotten so bad, they literally can’t give you enough morphine to dull the pain. BRY

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is costly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Indeed. Well said, Twang. Over 20 years ago, I managed a small chain of "health food stores" that were owned by a fellow that practiced holistic medicine, and something called "iridology"…which has to do with looking into the iris of the eye and finding small "flaws" therein (which correspond to different areas of the body – I’m oversimplfying, of course)…and treating certain conditions with proper nutrition, mega-vitamin therapy, etc.  These things are only beginning to be looked at seriously by doctors today, but back then, it was considered akin to voodoo witchcraft. I saw this man help many people…people with cancer, blood disorders, mental health problems, etc…people who "modern medicine" could not help (yes, they tried that first).  Western medicine is not the be-all-and-end-all when it comes to conquering diseases.  There are viable alternatives… That said…cancer is a horrible thing to have and a tough thing to beat.  My old man had it, but thank God, the doctors were able to cure it..at a cost.  He was a lifetime smoker…he developed  a cancer in his mouth, and they had to literally cut away a great deal of his face.  Luckily, they were able to do a fair amount of facial reconstruction, utilizing fairly new techniques.  Had this happened to him as little as 5 years earlier, he would have been a circus freak (a nasty way to put it…but true, nevertheless). They even wrote him up in a medical journal…a 72 year-old man who spent a total of 23 and 1/2 hours (30 minutes short of a full 24 hour day) under the knife. On the other hand, my best friend succumbed to lung cancer…another lifetime smoker.  In his case, I still wonder if it was the cancer or the chemotherapy that did him in.  Let me interject here…that there are few lower lifeforms than politicians who are against the use of medical marijhuana because they are afraid of appearing "soft on drugs". Another perspective…I used to date a woman whose sister was married to a millionaire who owned a popular bagel franchise.  She had an extremely rare form of cancer.  He spent vast amounts of money flying in experts from the 4 corners of the globe…all to no avail.  When he had exhausted traditional methods, he tried other means…nutrition, mega-vitamin therapy, faith healers, running her blood through Ultra-Violet Light sterilizers, even magnetism..again, to no avail.  She eventually succumbed to the cancer. And, it’s not always smokers.  My cousin, a beautiful actress/singer who was once married to the guy who plays the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, developed cancer. Never smoked in her life.  Again, I wonder if it was the cancer or the chemo that got her. Anyhow…I know this was long-winded…sorry.  But, well…sorry.. is all I can say. Thanks, BRY

Response:

To be honest, I wish I had been able to get my dad interested in alternatives to radiation/chemo.  He just lost hope and went through the motions.  I get the feeling that your beliefs about the possibility of beating it and your engagement in fighting it have as much, or more, to do with the outcome than do the particular type of interventions you choose. Good luck Ed. Kerry

I can see your point. But I’m not much on biofeedback.. self healing.. For instance, with hypothyroid you lose energy, you don’t make an effort.. you lose more engergy. More than the vitamins or supplements I take, what counts is forcing yourself off your ass. And don’t underestimate the difficulty. All the time in many support newsgroups the person who’s up one week or one month will show up totally wrecked later on. You’d hardly believe it’s the same person. I try different things… I never look for more from them than I put out myself. In fact, I have no hope of beating any of this crap. But I don’t have to make it easy. Besides, my kid stinks on guitar.. who can die with that hangin’ over their head? *G* see ya.. good luck to you, too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

… for the worse.  I have nothing against "alternative" treatments if they can allow themselves to be scrutinized in the same manner as modern treatments; id est: clinical trials.  Would you trust a car that was built but never tested?  I haven’t heard of any validated cases where an entire group of people using alternative treatments recovered from their illnesses, as shown by some standard test (not anecdote), wherein the modern treatments failed to do the same. This is sounding so familiar.  There are a bunch of alternative treatment advocates on sci.skeptic arguing about the "rebirthing" death in my state, Colorado.  Unless the alternative treatment can be shown by clinical trials, and not anecdotal evidence, it has no reason to be considered efficable. I’ll agree that there are many of them out there that have potential to be considered efficable, such as chiropractics (which is already mainstream), some herbals, and maybe, just maybe accupuncture (which still requires more study).  Just remember this, a highly regarded treatment used by professional nurses, therapeutic touch, was dashed against the rocks by a 12 year old girl in a simple experiment which showed that there was no effect above chance.  Homeopathic medicine has never shown a significant result in a clinical trial, the only purported result being the placebo effect (and maybe that drinking more water is good for you). Since this is off-topic for this group, I will abstain from any more on this.  I will say that the fervor that alternative medicine advocates have toward a bunch of unproven treatment practices is starting to amount to a religious one.  Prove their efficacy, then boast about their superiority, eh.  It would appear that I’ll be doing much more reading on this to better confront such zealousness. Robert Templeton

Response:

To be honest, I wish I had been able to get my dad interested in alternatives to radiation/chemo.  He just lost hope and went through the motions.  I get the feeling that your beliefs about the possibility of beating it and your engagement in fighting it have as much, or more, to do with the outcome than do the particular type of interventions you choose. Good luck Ed. Kerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

On the other hand,….I doubt that If i ever have a "serious" disease, I’ll get a "get well soon" card from Eddie I’m not trying to piss people off here,..just as an example that there are hundreds of thousands of ppl all over the world that have cancer, being famous doesn’t make you an exception for more attention (yes I do give a crap,…I’m just being realistic)

But is it better to send out one card, and address it to Eddie Van Halen, or to just send none? EVH might well send you a card if he /knew/ you had a serious disease (especially if you were a fan). Plus, fans probably care more about EVH than Nobby Nobody from Streatham, because they feel they know him, having followed his career, interviews, gigs etc. Schwingvey Waynesteen – It’s probably lung cancer from smoking all those other players… www.angelfire.com/electronic/electrovomit

Response:

I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd

She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

I guess we’re going to learn what the FAMILY wants us to know.  Anybody who gets that diagnosis has to handle it in his own way.  It’s an intensely personal thing, even — and perhaps especially — in a celebrity.  It’s a safe bet that he’s going through hell.. People give a crap.  Maybe we’re giving him some space.  It might mean more to send a card to his fan club address wishing him all the best.  Or to send a few bucks to the American Cancer Society.

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. Let’s all hope that he’s more intelligent than this and seeks the best conventional treatment. Robert Templeton

Response:

On the other hand,….I doubt that If i ever have a "serious" disease, I’ll get a "get well soon" card from Eddie I’m not trying to piss people off here,..just as an example that there are hundreds of thousands of ppl all over the world that have cancer, being famous doesn’t make you an exception for more attention (yes I do give a crap,…I’m just being realistic) — Nightbat

Question:

When do you take the atenolol?  If it is a once a day dose try taking it at bed time rather than in the morning.  Also you may want to have your blood pressure checked couple times a week of daily if possible and keep a record to give the doctor when you visit.  It may be that when you visit the doctor and have the blood pressure checked it may be elevated. A few years ago I was taking atenolol for migraines.  I started losing weight began feeling dizzy etc . When at the doctor my blood pressure was high or normal so the doctor didn’t think I needed to stop the atenolol.  I started having my b/p checked at work and it was always low.  When I took the record to the doc he d/c’d the atenolol. He jokingly said I had white collar/jacket high blood pressure.  When I see the doc it makes me tense raises the b/p.  Anyway I know I’m rambling but try keeping a b/p record.  Hope this helps. Good Luck, Katie

Response:

Great to hear that you are finding some answers!  It’s up to us to watch our own health, doctors can’t catch everything. Maybe try another blood pressure medication if cutting this one in half is not enough. Carol Schmidt

Response:

you sure might be able to get off them entirely. I’ve seen it happen. Losing weight definately can have a great effect on your blood pressure. CONGRATS!! ) and it must feel great knowing you are taking control of your destiny by losing the weight..  you are becoming more fit, and decreasing the need for the meds. I salute you! — ~~Joanie~~ Started WW Oct 31/2000 224.6/217.8/215 (personal minigoal #2) /202.6 = 10% April fools day goal…  212 5′5"  - rubenesque  hourglass shape 916 mile club miles done:   47.95/916

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Medications can certainly cause sleepiness and a general drag on life. When I first started on blood pressure pills some 15 years ago, they all made me depressed and tired, until a new doctor prescribed Zestril, which was then a new blood pressure medication specifically aimed at those of us who felt depressed and tired on others.  It worked. Ten years later I had to join an HMO where Zestril wasn’t covered.  I had to go to Monopril, which the doctor said was just the same.  I didn’t notice I was getting depressed again, but looknig back now, I can tell I was. Last year when my Dad died and I went through a bunch of heart tests the new doctor changed all my meds around and I am on digoxin and cardizam and a diuretic and potassium instead of the Monopril.  I feel so much better I can’t believe it.  And I was finally able to start losing weight again, my whole life felt better, I could get some control over it again.  That’s when I started following a modified WW again.  (I’d joined WW probably 17 times before and knew the various programs pretty well, though I have taken the best from each of them and put them together for me as I have come to know myself.) I notice that when I take another med that increases intestinal action I get sleepy in the afternoon. I try to take it at night now. I encourage you to keep trying, to keep paying attention, to not give up until you find something that works for you.  The doctors can’t care and follow up, they’re tired and overworked and often haven’t kept up on all the new info themselves, so it’s up to you to live your own life and do the best for yourself you can.  Good luck at finding out more info. — Carol Schmidt, Phoenix, AZ, USA 366 start on April 18, 2000 309.4 now, 56.6 pounds lost 308.1 minigoal for April Fool’s Day Challenge 166 goal for the year 2007 I have just figured out that it is my blood pressure medicine that is making me sleepy. I purchased a blood pressure monitor last night. I checked my blood pressure and it was 95 over 55. I thought this can’t be right. I walked over to a friend’s house and had him check my BP with his monitor and it was about the same. This morning I checked it after 25 minutes of light to moderate exercise on my elliptical machine and it was only 109 over 65. This morning I cut my BP pill in half and decided I would try to take myself off of it gradually. About mid day I decided I should still touch base with my doctor. He agreed with me! He told me to take half of my dose for a few weeks while monitoring my BP. If that goes OK he told me I could try to go off of it entirely. This is really really really great news to me!!! I realize that it’s possible that I may not be able to go off BP medication entirely but this lets me know that loosing the weight is already making a difference in my health!!! — Wired_1

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Medications can certainly cause sleepiness and a general drag on life. When I first started on blood pressure pills some 15 years ago, they all made me depressed and tired, until a new doctor prescribed Zestril, which was then a new blood pressure medication specifically aimed at those of us who felt depressed and tired on others.  It worked. Ten years later I had to join an HMO where Zestril wasn’t covered.  I had to go to Monopril, which the doctor said was just the same.  I didn’t notice I was getting depressed again, but looknig back now, I can tell I was. Last year when my Dad died and I went through a bunch of heart tests the new doctor changed all my meds around and I am on digoxin and cardizam and a diuretic and potassium instead of the Monopril.  I feel so much better I can’t believe it.  And I was finally able to start losing weight again, my whole life felt better, I could get some control over it again.  That’s when I started following a modified WW again.  (I’d joined WW probably 17 times before and knew the various programs pretty well, though I have taken the best from each of them and put them together for me as I have come to know myself.) I notice that when I take another med that increases intestinal action I get sleepy in the afternoon. I try to take it at night now. I encourage you to keep trying, to keep paying attention, to not give up until you find something that works for you.  The doctors can’t care and follow up, they’re tired and overworked and often haven’t kept up on all the new info themselves, so it’s up to you to live your own life and do the best for yourself you can.  Good luck at finding out more info. — Carol Schmidt, Phoenix, AZ, USA 366 start on April 18, 2000 309.4 now, 56.6 pounds lost 308.1 minigoal for April Fool’s Day Challenge 166 goal for the year 2007

I have just figured out that it is my blood pressure medicine that is making me sleepy. I purchased a blood pressure monitor last night. I checked my blood pressure and it was 95 over 55. I thought this can’t be right. I walked over to a friend’s house and had him check my BP with his monitor and it was about the same. This morning I checked it after 25 minutes of light to moderate exercise on my elliptical machine and it was only 109 over 65. This morning I cut my BP pill in half and decided I would try to take myself off of it gradually. About mid day I decided I should still touch base with my doctor. He agreed with me! He told me to take half of my dose for a few weeks while monitoring my BP. If that goes OK he told me I could try to go off of it entirely. This is really really really great news to me!!! I realize that it’s possible that I may not be able to go off BP medication entirely but this lets me know that loosing the weight is already making a difference in my health!!! — Wired_1

Response:

I’ve been very tired for several weeks now. I don’t actually doze off but I’ve taken a nap on a few days and that’s completely new behaviour to me. I’m trying to get more protein into the diet, hopefully that will help. Mia — 220/189/152 pounds 100/86/69 kilos A Finn in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe someone here might be able to tell me if thy have had any similar experience with this. When I was at my heaviest weight (215Lbs) I was constantly tired. As I began loosing the weight I had a lot of energy that I didn’t have before. As I lost more weight I began feeling even better and have had even more energy. Lately (164 Lbs and still loosing) I have been bursting with energy! For the first time in my life I actually want to get serious about exercising. Now here is the problem: When I am up walking around I feel great. However, often when I sit down I suddenly get sleepy and I often attend technical classes, which usually are 5-day classes and run 8 hours per day. I also sometimes attend night classes. When I was heavier I had a big battle with dozing off. As the weight started coming off I was able to stay wide-awake all through the classes without a struggle. However, lately even though I have been bursting with energy I have started dozing off again. It is even getting worse. I have started dozing off sitting at my desk at work and also during meetings. A week ago in night class it was so bad that I fell asleep while the instructor was asking me a direct question. It was pretty embarrassing. However, 5 minutes later when we started doing the hands-on computer exercises I was wide-awake! It is almost like I go from being Wired One to Sleepy Man and visa-versa!!! This week I will be in another 5-day class and I’m getting worried.  I plan on exercising in the morning before I go. At lunchtime I plan on walking around the shopping mall that is across the street from the training center. I think this will help some. However, I am still concerned as to why I am experiencing this again. One of my many but main reasons for wanting to loose the weight and change my lifestyle was because I want to get off of the medications that I am taking for high blood pressure and acid reflux. The blood pressure medication is Atenolol and the reflux medicine is Prilosec. The labels on both of these say that they can cause drowsiness. I asked my doctor a while back and he tried to tell me that they don’t cause drowsiness even though it is printed on the label. With my doctor’s OK I have tried to stop taking the Prilosec but have been unsuccessful. He suggested that I try going off of it and if it didn’t work to try again after I had lost another 10 Lbs. I have tried it twice but have had to go back on it. I will try again as I loose more weight. When I have discussed the Atenolol with my doctor he has suggested that I not try to go off of it yet. The other day I ran into a friend who had just started taking Atenolol. He told me that he had suddenly lost he energy that he had before. Am I on the right track by thinking that since my health is getting better that the blood pressure medication might be too strong for me now? Or do I just need more exercise? I don’t expect a medical answer to this question but I thought that somebody here might have had some experience with this. — Wired_1

Response:

My husband is not overweight, and he takes Prilosec, switched to Prevacid for awhile. He can’t be off his GI medicine, he needs it, and it doesn’t have anything to do with his weight or what he eats. Without the meds, he got to the point where even drinking water hurt. So stay on the meds. However, you’re probably right on about your dosage needing to go down since you are now smaller. Please point that out to your doctor, and if he doesn’t listen, switch doctors! Obviously the stuff causes drowsiness in some people or it wouldn’t be on the label! Or it might be something else entirely. It may be an Attention Deficit Disorder. You would think that since you can pay attention to some things that you don’t have ADD, but the truth is that part of ADD is hyper focusing on some things. My husband also has ADD with Hyperactivity. He falls asleep when he tries to read. — Mickie in Fort Worth, Texas 252/246.2/227/148

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe someone here might be able to tell me if thy have had any similar experience with this. When I was at my heaviest weight (215Lbs) I was constantly tired. As I began loosing the weight I had a lot of energy that I didn’t have before. As I lost more weight I began feeling even better and have had even more energy. Lately (164 Lbs and still loosing) I have been bursting with energy! For the first time in my life I actually want to get serious about exercising. Now here is the problem: When I am up walking around I feel great. However, often when I sit down I suddenly get sleepy and I often attend technical classes, which usually are 5-day classes and run 8 hours per day. I also sometimes attend night classes. When I was heavier I had a big battle with dozing off. As the weight started coming off I was able to stay wide-awake all through the classes without a struggle. However, lately even though I have been bursting with energy I have started dozing off again. It is even getting worse. I have started dozing off sitting at my desk at work and also during meetings. A week ago in night class it was so bad that I fell asleep while the instructor was asking me a direct question. It was pretty embarrassing. However, 5 minutes later when we started doing the hands-on computer exercises I was wide-awake! It is almost like I go from being Wired One to Sleepy Man and visa-versa!!! This week I will be in another 5-day class and I’m getting worried.  I plan on exercising in the morning before I go. At lunchtime I plan on walking around the shopping mall that is across the street from the training center. I think this will help some. However, I am still concerned as to why I am experiencing this again. One of my many but main reasons for wanting to loose the weight and change my lifestyle was because I want to get off of the medications that I am taking for high blood pressure and acid reflux. The blood pressure medication is Atenolol and the reflux medicine is Prilosec. The labels on both of these say that they can cause drowsiness. I asked my doctor a while back and he tried to tell me that they don’t cause drowsiness even though it is printed on the label. With my doctor’s OK I have tried to stop taking the Prilosec but have been unsuccessful. He suggested that I try going off of it and if it didn’t work to try again after I had lost another 10 Lbs. I have tried it twice but have had to go back on it. I will try again as I loose more weight. When I have discussed the Atenolol with my doctor he has suggested that I not try to go off of it yet. The other day I ran into a friend who had just started taking Atenolol. He told me that he had suddenly lost he energy that he had before. Am I on the right track by thinking that since my health is getting better that the blood pressure medication might be too strong for me now? Or do I just need more exercise? I don’t expect a medical answer to this question but I thought that somebody here might have had some experience with this. — Wired_1

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Are you getting enough sleep? Your body could be telling you that you need a little more sleep. Roxan i’ve had pretty similar energy changes…  your organs are producing the same of what they produce, your increased muscles are producing an increased total of what they produce, but the stuff is shared around with less total tissue.  ergo, more energy. about your class —  i honestly think your instructor is probably boring. here’s what i do…  i have some wasabi peas before a potentially boring stretch.  between the spice and the protein, it keeps me going.  if you’re like me, you think you already know more than this guy who might be just one lecture ahead of you, anyway.  so you don’t want to waste your time. about bp and reflux —  a few months back, reflux came up here on the ng — many people, like myself, reported that they hadn’t had a rolaids or anything. gotta go — more later! a the s

I think I’m getting enough sleep.  The times that I have gone to bed early I end up waking up too early wide awake and ready to go. Then have to just sit around a little longer waiting until time to go to work. Although I have not been tested for Sleep Apnea I don’t think that I have it either. My friend was just diagnosed with it and the only symptom that I had that matched his was the sleepy part. My doctor hasn’t considered it to be a possibility either. Although, this is the same doctor that says the meds can’t make me sleepy. I’ve thought about trying to discontinue the blood pressure medication for a week to see what happens. I would be monitoring my blood pressure myself to make sure it doesn’t shoot back up. But I had really planned on doing that after I had lost more weight and had been exercising longer. Also I had wondered if I was just getting burnned out on my career. I’m pretty sure that’s not it because I can be driving down the road and doze off too. I have to make sure that I have something playing on the radio that holds my interest or attention to keep awake while driving. What Andy Gee said is partially true. Sometimes the instructors are pretty monotone but I don’t think that is the whole cause. — Wired_1

Response:

Are you getting enough sleep? Your body could be telling you that you need a little more sleep. Roxan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve had pretty similar energy changes…  your organs are producing the same of what they produce, your increased muscles are producing an increased total of what they produce, but the stuff is shared around with less total tissue.  ergo, more energy. about your class —  i honestly think your instructor is probably boring. here’s what i do…  i have some wasabi peas before a potentially boring stretch.  between the spice and the protein, it keeps me going.  if you’re like me, you think you already know more than this guy who might be just one lecture ahead of you, anyway.  so you don’t want to waste your time. about bp and reflux —  a few months back, reflux came up here on the ng — many people, like myself, reported that they hadn’t had a rolaids or anything. gotta go — more later! a the s

Response:

Medications can certainly cause sleepiness and a general drag on life.  When I first started on blood pressure pills some 15 years ago, they all made me depressed and tired, until a new doctor prescribed Zestril, which was then a new blood pressure medication specifically aimed at those of us who felt depressed and tired on others.  It worked. Ten years later I had to join an HMO where Zestril wasn’t covered.  I had to go to Monopril, which the doctor said was just the same.  I didn’t notice I was getting depressed again, but looknig back now, I can tell I was. Last year when my Dad died and I went through a bunch of heart tests the new doctor changed all my meds around and I am on digoxin and cardizam and a diuretic and potassium instead of the Monopril.  I feel so much better I can’t believe it.  And I was finally able to start losing weight again, my whole life felt better, I could get some control over it again.  That’s when I started following a modified WW again.  (I’d joined WW probably 17 times before and knew the various programs pretty well, though I have taken the best from each of them and put them together for me as I have come to know myself.) I notice that when I take another med that increases intestinal action I get sleepy in the afternoon. I try to take it at night now. I encourage you to keep trying, to keep paying attention, to not give up until you find something that works for you.  The doctors can’t care and follow up, they’re tired and overworked and often haven’t kept up on all the new info themselves, so it’s up to you to live your own life and do the best for yourself you can.  Good luck at finding out more info. — Carol Schmidt, Phoenix, AZ, USA 366 start on April 18, 2000 309.4 now, 56.6 pounds lost 308.1 minigoal for April Fool’s Day Challenge 166 goal for the year 2007

Response:

i’ve had pretty similar energy changes…  your organs are producing the same of what they produce, your increased muscles are producing an increased total of what they produce, but the stuff is shared around with less total tissue.  ergo, more energy. about your class —  i honestly think your instructor is probably boring. here’s what i do…  i have some wasabi peas before a potentially boring stretch.  between the spice and the protein, it keeps me going.  if you’re like me, you think you already know more than this guy who might be just one lecture ahead of you, anyway.  so you don’t want to waste your time. about bp and reflux —  a few months back, reflux came up here on the ng — many people, like myself, reported that they hadn’t had a rolaids or anything. gotta go — more later! a the s

Response:

I thought maybe someone here might be able to tell me if thy have had any similar experience with this. When I was at my heaviest weight (215Lbs) I was constantly tired. As I began loosing the weight I had a lot of energy that I didn’t have before. As I lost more weight I began feeling even better and have had even more energy. Lately (164 Lbs and still loosing) I have been bursting with energy! For the first time in my life I actually want to get serious about exercising. Now here is the problem: When I am up walking around I feel great. However, often when I sit down I suddenly get sleepy and I often attend technical classes, which usually are 5-day classes and run 8 hours per day. I also sometimes attend night classes. When I was heavier I had a big battle with dozing off. As the weight started coming off I was able to stay wide-awake all through the classes without a struggle. However, lately even though I have been bursting with energy I have started dozing off again. It is even getting worse. I have started dozing off sitting at my desk at work and also during meetings. A week ago in night class it was so bad that I fell asleep while the instructor was asking me a direct question. It was pretty embarrassing. However, 5 minutes later when we started doing the hands-on computer exercises I was wide-awake! It is almost like I go from being Wired One to Sleepy Man and visa-versa!!! This week I will be in another 5-day class and I’m getting worried.  I plan on exercising in the morning before I go. At lunchtime I plan on walking around the shopping mall that is across the street from the training center. I think this will help some. However, I am still concerned as to why I am experiencing this again. One of my many but main reasons for wanting to loose the weight and change my lifestyle was because I want to get off of the medications that I am taking for high blood pressure and acid reflux. The blood pressure medication is Atenolol and the reflux medicine is Prilosec. The labels on both of these say that they can cause drowsiness. I asked my doctor a while back and he tried to tell me that they don’t cause drowsiness even though it is printed on the label. With my doctor’s OK I have tried to stop taking the Prilosec but have been unsuccessful. He suggested that I try going off of it and if it didn’t work to try again after I had lost another 10 Lbs. I have tried it twice but have had to go back on it. I will try again as I loose more weight. When I have discussed the Atenolol with my doctor he has suggested that I not try to go off of it yet. The other day I ran into a friend who had just started taking Atenolol. He told me that he had suddenly lost he energy that he had before. Am I on the right track by thinking that since my health is getting better that the blood pressure medication might be too strong for me now? Or do I just need more exercise? I don’t expect a medical answer to this question but I thought that somebody   here might have had some experience with this. — Wired_1

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Question:

Jamie, thank you for your encouragement… I am trying to stay strong around here, but believe me it is so hard.. I hurt so bad and it really does put alot of stress knowing that my surgery was so unsuccessful.. GRR.. oh well.. Yes so far I have really enjoyed reading the posts here in this NG and will continue to read the posts.. take care and hope to read more from you soon. Always, Teresa

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Teresa, Welcome!  You are right – there are a few of us who post here and in the endo group.  This is a great group of people who have helped me in many ways.  In fact before I knew I had endo (and just knew I hurt) someone here suggested what it might be.  That suggestion made me press my doctor to diagnose the problem and look for answers to fix it.  This group also encouraged me and helped me find a good doctor to treat the pain while I figured out what to do about the endo.  This place can also inspire a good chuckle every now and then too which I think we all need. I know how frustrated you must be at this point with the unsuccessful surgery and your situation at home, but hang in there. I hope you get some answers soon. Michele Hello everyone.. I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks now just catching up on reading all of your many interesting posts… I also see a few familiar faces from my other support groups as well.. so hello to you all! I just had abdominal surgery this past Tuesday… one week ago today.. I was diagnosed with endometriosis in Sept 99 but it took them a long time here on our base to finally agree to do the laparoscopy to diagnose me in the first place… I have lived in a great amount of daily abdominal pain every since Jan. 96 when my first child was born. I keep thinking that maybe the preg. or the labor and delivery did something inside.. but now with the proof of endo they don’t want to think it could also be something else.. Anyways this surgery I just had in my eyes was totally unsuccessful.. I am so aggravated I could just scream!!! They did the laparoscopy and I told my doc before hand and he agreed to be as aggressive as it took to find out what in the hell was causing my abdominal/pelvic pain!! Well he found no endo.. if it was there he said it was all microscopic  from me being on lurpon injections for seven months.. from what I do know he did not take any biopsies at all during my surgery.. and that upsets me. The only thing that I am aware that he did was ablate a couple of my uterus nerves… that is what he told my husband.. so far I still feel the same exact pain..lots of pressure and feels like I am in labor and feels like I have to push something out… lots of pins and needles pain as well… also he did do a "dye" test and seen that my right tube was totally blocked (maybe that is why I have such horrid pain on that side) but he told my hubby that he did not unblock it!! GRRR.. I have been on oxycontin 10 mg 2 times a day/ and also on oxycodone 5 mg every 4-6 hrs  for breakthrough pain… taking ambien 10 mg to sleep, prevacid for three stomach ulcers, flecinide or trambocor 75 mg two times a day for my heart (it is an antiarrethmia medication) and taking atenolol 50 mg two times a day for my heart as well…. I am so tired of the oxy’s constipating me… and I am also tired of it vaguely taking the edge off of my pain!!! I am only 23 yrs old, married for seven yrs, and have a five yr old lil girl and three yr old little boy.. we are a U.S.M.C. family of nearly seven yrs and  I thank GoD that all of my specialist are NOT on base.. Our hospital here on base is very nasty and full of mean and uncaring doctors.. I am so tired of not getting the proper treatment.. This whole medical crap is causing nothing but commotion here at my house between me and my husband….. he finally ended up being "physical" with me this last Saturday and it caused my incisions to reopen up.. the mp’s came out and filed a report and so on… the EMT’s were called out saying that I needed to be seen but I didn’t want to leave or scare my kiddos seeing that they had no idea what the hell was going on.. alls that they know is that mommy’s tummy was hurting from her surgery… GRRR I am just so tired of it…. and now with this surgery not showing endo I am still left without knowing jack…. my doc (reproductive endocrinologist/pelvic pain specialist) told me that he wants to continue treating me for Chronic Pelvic pain.. I have never had a hard time getting proper pain meds from him.. he don’t care at all.. and gives me any medicine that I suggest or ask if it will help… he is a kind hearted doc and just wants to concentrate on getting me out of pain!! And that is what I want because I am sooo tired of not having a life due to my heart problems and this chronic pelvic pain crap!! GRRRR sorry to vent.. but I just wanted to tell you all "my story" and let you all know that I have enjoyed and learned alot from reading this group..  I wish  you all a very pain free week. Always, Teresa aka Terri

Response:

Hi Teresa, Welcome!  You are right – there are a few of us who post here and in the endo group.  This is a great group of people who have helped me in many ways.  In fact before I knew I had endo (and just knew I hurt) someone here suggested what it might be.  That suggestion made me press my doctor to diagnose the problem and look for answers to fix it.  This group also encouraged me and helped me find a good doctor to treat the pain while I figured out what to do about the endo.  This place can also inspire a good chuckle every now and then too which I think we all need. I know how frustrated you must be at this point with the unsuccessful surgery and your situation at home, but hang in there. I hope you get some answers soon. Michele – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone.. I have been lurking here for a couple of weeks now just catching up on reading all of your many interesting posts… I also see a few familiar faces from my other support groups as well.. so hello to you all! I just had abdominal surgery this past Tuesday… one week ago today.. I was diagnosed with endometriosis in Sept 99 but it took them a long time here on our base to finally agree to do the laparoscopy to diagnose me in the first place… I have lived in a great amount of daily abdominal pain every since Jan. 96 when my first child was born. I keep thinking that maybe the preg. or the labor and delivery did something inside.. but now with the proof of endo they don’t want to think it could also be something else.. Anyways this surgery I just had in my eyes was totally unsuccessful.. I am so aggravated I could just scream!!! They did the laparoscopy and I told my doc before hand and he agreed to be as aggressive as it took to find out what in the hell was causing my abdominal/pelvic pain!! Well he found no endo.. if it was there he said it was all microscopic  from me being on lurpon injections for seven months.. from what I do know he did not take any biopsies at all during my surgery.. and that upsets me. The only thing that I am aware that he did was ablate a couple of my uterus nerves… that is what he told my husband.. so far I still feel the same exact pain..lots of pressure and feels like I am in labor and feels like I have to push something out… lots of pins and needles pain as well… also he did do a "dye" test and seen that my right tube was totally blocked (maybe that is why I have such horrid pain on that side) but he told my hubby that he did not unblock it!! GRRR.. I have been on oxycontin 10 mg 2 times a day/ and also on oxycodone 5 mg every 4-6 hrs  for breakthrough pain… taking ambien 10 mg to sleep, prevacid for three stomach ulcers, flecinide or trambocor 75 mg two times a day for my heart (it is an antiarrethmia medication) and taking atenolol 50 mg two times a day for my heart as well…. I am so tired of the oxy’s constipating me… and I am also tired of it vaguely taking the edge off of my pain!!! I am only 23 yrs old, married for seven yrs, and have a five yr old lil girl and three yr old little boy.. we are a U.S.M.C. family of nearly seven yrs and  I thank GoD that all of my specialist are NOT on base.. Our hospital here on base is very nasty and full of mean and uncaring doctors.. I am so tired of not getting the proper treatment.. This whole medical crap is causing nothing but commotion here at my house between me and my husband….. he finally ended up being "physical" with me this last Saturday and it caused my incisions to reopen up.. the mp’s came out and filed a report and so on… the EMT’s were called out saying that I needed to be seen but I didn’t want to leave or scare my kiddos seeing that they had no idea what the hell was going on.. alls that they know is that mommy’s tummy was hurting from her surgery… GRRR I am just so tired of it…. and now with this surgery not showing endo I am still left without knowing jack…. my doc (reproductive endocrinologist/pelvic pain specialist) told me that he wants to continue treating me for Chronic Pelvic pain.. I have never had a hard time getting proper pain meds from him.. he don’t care at all.. and gives me any medicine that I suggest or ask if it will help… he is a kind hearted doc and just wants to concentrate on getting me out of pain!! And that is what I want because I am sooo tired of not having a life due to my heart problems and this chronic pelvic pain crap!! GRRRR sorry to vent.. but I just wanted to tell you all "my story" and let you all know that I have enjoyed and learned alot from reading this group..  I wish  you all a very pain free week. Always, Teresa aka Terri

Response:

Question:

Thanks, Demon.  I know I just have to hang in there and see if the symptoms continue or get worse.  I will tell my pdoc what’s going on, and ask him if he thinks it will go away…I honestly don’t know why my body gets messed up on Prozac now.  Hopefully it is something that subsides as I get used to it again…although, I *did* have my reasons for quitting it last April.  So hard.  Trying new meds is such a drag, too, and it scares me, but I just might have to ((shudder)). –Tez On Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:34:21 +1000, "_Demon_Eyes_" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<Leave…@Alone.com

wrote: Dear Tezza, I just wanted to say that I am sorry about your health at present. It must be so awful. *hugs* I wish there was a way I could wave my magic wand and make you all feel better, hell even perfect. But as you know that doesn’t happen too often. All I can say is keep your chin up, it will all pass soon, and if it doesn’t? well just think, no one can have bad luck all their life, you will get all your good things at once one day and you will be really happy. *hugs* again. Demon.

Response:

Dear Tezza, I just wanted to say that I am sorry about your health at present. It must be so awful. *hugs* I wish there was a way I could wave my magic wand and make you all feel better, hell even perfect. But as you know that doesn’t happen too often. All I can say is keep your chin up, it will all pass soon, and if it doesn’t? well just think, no one can have bad luck all their life, you will get all your good things at once one day and you will be really happy. *hugs* again. Demon. "Tezza" <duval…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:esf2vs4l7s7nsg8knkjcv0q7c2l7k74oau@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So, let’s see…a few weeks ago I upped the dose from 10 mg to 20 mg Prozac, my usual dose for years and years.  My sinuses are worse, my eyes are sticky, I spotted blood mid cycle, and also since upping the dose I’ve been on the rx Prevacid for a very upset stomach (always felt like my heart was hurting).  Lovely.  Oh, and please let’s don’t forget the migraines.  Hello, we’re back.  Ouch!  Oh, how could I forget the bladder pain?  No sign of infection, just a lot of pain, so the doc prescribed antibiotic. I’m spending money I don’t have on meds.  I can’t see my way clear to spending $20 for nose spray every month, so will look into the over-the-counter stuff that used to be an rx.  I seem to want to curl up in bed as much as before, but am getting more done and am not feeling so isolated…just a little.  My weight is getting to me; saw a recent photo…ohmigosh.  Didn’t know I was looking so bad  :-( And not looking or feeling too happy, either.  Once had a doc smile at me and say "what is it going to take to get you happy?"  I told him weight loss, and he prescribed amphetamines.  I’d lose on ‘em, but they messed with my mind.  Can’t take them.  What is it going to take to get me to lose weight now?  I know, I know, a lot of hard work. doh.  Hard when I have to take the antibiotic four times a day with food.  I’m so afraid of it upsetting my stomach that I eat more than I should.  Always forget one, so end up eating real late, like now, and taking it at 1:00 am.  Another *doh*. That isn’t even the whole answer to my happiness.  I know that I need to produce artwork.  I know that I need to let go of resentment and jealousy and my own weaknesses.  I’m too hard on myself.  I always think I’m sicker than I am. I’m working on it. –Tezza

Response:

Thank you.  All support is very much appreciated  :-) –Tez On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:21:34 +0100, "Chris" <c…@madasafish.com

wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Oh Tezza it all sounds awful. Meds – can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without em’. Happiness that light at the end of the tunnel which always seems to be going in the same direction as you …. only faster. Sorry don’t know what to say, except I hope you feel better soon. Chris.

Response:

Oh Tezza it all sounds awful. Meds – can’t live with ‘em, can’t live without em’. Happiness that light at the end of the tunnel which always seems to be going in the same direction as you …. only faster. Sorry don’t know what to say, except I hope you feel better soon. Chris. ******************************************************* Days When The Rain And The Sun Are Gone Black As Night Agony’s Torn At My Heart Too Long So Afraid Slip And I Fall And I Die…. ******************************************************* Fleetwood Mac "Tezza" <duval…@hotmail.com

wrote in message

news:esf2vs4l7s7nsg8knkjcv0q7c2l7k74oau@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

So, let’s see…a few weeks ago I upped the dose from 10 mg to 20 mg Prozac, my usual dose for years and years.  My sinuses are worse, my eyes are sticky, I spotted blood mid cycle, and also since upping the dose I’ve been on the rx Prevacid for a very upset stomach (always felt like my heart was hurting).  Lovely.  Oh, and please let’s don’t forget the migraines.  Hello, we’re back.  Ouch!  Oh, how could I forget the bladder pain?  No sign of infection, just a lot of pain, so the doc prescribed antibiotic. I’m spending money I don’t have on meds.  I can’t see my way clear to spending $20 for nose spray every month, so will look into the over-the-counter stuff that used to be an rx.  I seem to want to curl up in bed as much as before, but am getting more done and am not feeling so isolated…just a little.  My weight is getting to me; saw a recent photo…ohmigosh.  Didn’t know I was looking so bad  :-( And not looking or feeling too happy, either.  Once had a doc smile at me and say "what is it going to take to get you happy?"  I told him weight loss, and he prescribed amphetamines.  I’d lose on ‘em, but they messed with my mind.  Can’t take them.  What is it going to take to get me to lose weight now?  I know, I know, a lot of hard work. doh.  Hard when I have to take the antibiotic four times a day with food.  I’m so afraid of it upsetting my stomach that I eat more than I should.  Always forget one, so end up eating real late, like now, and taking it at 1:00 am.  Another *doh*. That isn’t even the whole answer to my happiness.  I know that I need to produce artwork.  I know that I need to let go of resentment and jealousy and my own weaknesses.  I’m too hard on myself.  I always think I’m sicker than I am. I’m working on it. –Tezza

Response:

So, let’s see…a few weeks ago I upped the dose from 10 mg to 20 mg Prozac, my usual dose for years and years.  My sinuses are worse, my eyes are sticky, I spotted blood mid cycle, and also since upping the dose I’ve been on the rx Prevacid for a very upset stomach (always felt like my heart was hurting).  Lovely.  Oh, and please let’s don’t forget the migraines.  Hello, we’re back.  Ouch!  Oh, how could I forget the bladder pain?  No sign of infection, just a lot of pain, so the doc prescribed antibiotic.   I’m spending money I don’t have on meds.  I can’t see my way clear to spending $20 for nose spray every month, so will look into the over-the-counter stuff that used to be an rx.  I seem to want to curl up in bed as much as before, but am getting more done and am not feeling so isolated…just a little.  My weight is getting to me; saw a recent photo…ohmigosh.  Didn’t know I was looking so bad  :-( And not looking or feeling too happy, either.  Once had a doc smile at me and say "what is it going to take to get you happy?"  I told him weight loss, and he prescribed amphetamines.  I’d lose on ‘em, but they messed with my mind.  Can’t take them.  What is it going to take to get me to lose weight now?  I know, I know, a lot of hard work. doh.  Hard when I have to take the antibiotic four times a day with food.  I’m so afraid of it upsetting my stomach that I eat more than I should.  Always forget one, so end up eating real late, like now, and taking it at 1:00 am.  Another *doh*. That isn’t even the whole answer to my happiness.  I know that I need to produce artwork.  I know that I need to let go of resentment and jealousy and my own weaknesses.  I’m too hard on myself.  I always think I’m sicker than I am.   I’m working on it. –Tezza

Response:

Question:

I use an acid reduced brand of instant coffee called Kava Coffee.  I like it, though if you are used to brewed, you have to get used to it. BL

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have GERD (gastroesophogeal reflux disease) and am taking Prevacid for it right now. I read on some Health sites that you should avoid coffee and chocolate and tea, due to either caffiene or the acidic content, which can aggravate the reflux problem. My question is, when it gets cold in the winter, what does a GRED patient drink to stay warm if they should not have coffee, or hot tea? — Thanks, RLN Before you buy.

Chamomile tea is known as a carminative amongst many.  Carminative is a word used to describe the ability of an herb to ease digestive discomfort.  Ginger is also a great one to use to ease digestive discomfort and keep you warm.  Along with Dr.S’s great suggestions. Thomas Tsakounis, Herbalist http://www.wholebodyconcepts.com Before you buy.

Response:

Many herbal teas are caffeine free.  You can look up the healing properties of the various herbs in John Lust’s *The Herb Book* or a similar work.  Apple cider is great served warm.  Heated water and lemon is another really cheap alternative.  Anybody have other favorites? — Over 130 articles (indexed by topic, or keyword with an on-site search engine) plus nearly 1,400 scientific references on nutritional therapeutics are posted at http://doctoryourself.com  Links to other clinical nutrition and alternative medicine sites are provided. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have GERD (gastroesophogeal reflux disease) and am taking Prevacid for it right now. I read on some Health sites that you should avoid coffee and chocolate and tea, due to either caffiene or the acidic content, which can aggravate the reflux problem. My question is, when it gets cold in the winter, what does a GRED patient drink to stay warm if they should not have coffee, or hot tea? — Thanks, RLN Before you buy.

Before you buy.

Response:

I have GERD (gastroesophogeal reflux disease) and am taking Prevacid for it right now. I read on some Health sites that you should avoid coffee and chocolate and tea, due to either caffiene or the acidic content, which can aggravate the reflux problem. My question is, when it gets cold in the winter, what does a GRED patient drink to stay warm if they should not have coffee, or hot tea? — Thanks, RLN Before you buy.

Response: