Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing. … for the worse.  I have nothing against "alternative" treatments if they can allow themselves to be scrutinized in the same manner as modern treatments; id est: clinical trials.  Would you trust a car that was built but never tested?

Sure. We all did this for years and years. Testing vehicles is new. And you mean scientific emperical testing, which we didn’t have ourselves until recently. Are you forgetting that ideas like bloodletting were ours? Are you aware that Dr.s now actually use LEECHES for some treatments? I can list more.. read my other post and spare me the time. I haven’t heard of any validated cases where an entire group of people using alternative treatments recovered from their illnesses, as shown by some standard test (not anecdote), wherein the modern treatments failed to do the same.

I haven’t read any either. But so what? I have read of people who use alternative medicines to good avail. I have seen Dr. Weils website, have you? I have read Dr. Koops website..have you? I suppose they’re full of shit. This is sounding so familiar.  There are a bunch of alternative treatment advocates on sci.skeptic arguing about the "rebirthing" death in my state, Colorado.  Unless the alternative treatment can be shown by clinical trials, and not anecdotal evidence, it has no reason to be considered efficable.

No. there’s reason. See my other posts and find out more about it yourself. If you really think none of these treatments are good, or work, or have evidence to back them up, take another look. I’ll agree that there are many of them out there that have potential to be considered efficable, such as chiropractics (which is already mainstream),

Mainstream. I’ve used chiros for years and have only found a few dr.s in the last few years who don’t show an obvious distaste for it. some herbals, and maybe, just maybe accupuncture (which still requires more study).  Just remember this, a highly regarded treatment used by professional nurses, therapeutic touch, was dashed against the rocks by a 12 year old girl in a simple experiment which showed that there was no effect above chance.

Lots more have been found to be bogus, too. But let’s not forget the bogus shit western tradition puts out. I was on prevacid for almost ten years… until one day I said .. these guys are idiots. I changed my diet slightly and reduced my stress with yoga.. and I haven’t touched that prevacid since. I sure paid for a lot of it, though. I suggest you take a look at mary shomons site.. at about.com, on thryoid conditions. You’ll find that a LOT of Dr.s don’t even know what the hell they are doing. Homeopathic medicine has never shown a significant result in a clinical trial, the only purported result being the placebo effect (and maybe that drinking more water is good for you). Since this is off-topic for this group, I will abstain from any more on this.  I will say that the fervor that alternative medicine advocates have toward a bunch of unproven treatment practices is starting to amount to a religious one.

It can. No doubt. And some are not very good. The worst ones, like badly practiced western medicine, are even dangerous.  Prove their efficacy, then boast about their superiority, eh.  It would appear that I’ll be doing much more reading on this to better confront such zealousness. Robert Templeton

I’ll be glad when you do. Try the thyroid site for starters. That’ll get you going on the idea that western medicine sometimes has it’s head firmly planted rearward too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is

costly. Let’s take a look at some of the third world voodoo, shall we? The American Dr. who went to Africa and spent a couple of years studying with one of the few Oral Tradition ‘witchdoctors’ (OUR white appellation) left. Gee…what do we find… a large compound about twenty feet high which is all shelves loaded with plants.. that the guy spent a lifetime memorizing. The Dr. found not one, not two, but many many plants which contained trace elements of the same drugs western medicine had been using for years for conditions that were serious.. heart problems, liver problems.. all efficacious. aloe vera..ever heard of it? traditional american indian medicine. works VERY well.. I once picked up a soldering Iron I thought was turned off… I smelled me burning before I felt the pain… sliced open my aloe plant and played that night with no pain. I healed at least twice as fast. throughout the world the breathing exercises of Yoga, alone, have gained acceptance and appreciation by many people, Dr.s included, because they reduce stress, and more. Ayurvedic medicine.. works. Homeopathy.. recommended by several of my Dr.s and many more. Chiropracty is still regarded as voodoo by some, and I don’t have to tell you how many people will settle for nothing less. I can go on here..for a long time, but I think I’ve made my point. While other medical philosophies have been treated with disregard and scorn, since the first day our priests showed up and attempted to destroy everything from other cultures–even our own.. witches, ‘the wise’, were simply people who knew plants–studys show, time and again that, given the lack of scientific background, the knowledge these people had was pretty damned amazing. You do what you want.  I don’t mind. But it’s not voodoo. and it doesn’t just come from third world countries. by the way… some of those third world countries are responsible for a good deal of medicine we still use today under different names. You ought to take your american bigotry to the library and see how it holds up. Have a nice day. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is costly.

Western medicine doesn’t have a handle on everything.  Just because it hasn’t been approved by the AMA, doesn’t make it "3rd World voodoo". Remember…the AMA is a business…the business of pushing drugs.  The AMA cannot own and/or regulate vitamins, herbs, acupuncture, acupressure, etc..therefore, there is just no profit in it for them.  It’s all about the money, honey. The Tobacco industry is still saying there is no link between smoking and cancer.  I don’t put a whole lot of stock in the Tobacco industry’s "research"…do you?  Likewise, the AMA has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo…if you really do some research on the matter, you’ll learn that there have been more than a few double-blind studies that have been ignored by the AMA on a variety of diseases. I’m not saying one should swallow the whole "weeds-and-seeds" philosophy totally…just that it needs to be looked into more than it has.  Research is costly…unless of course, it’s you or a loved one that is wasting away…hair and teeth falling out from chemo…and screaming and screaming and screaming themselves to death in a cancer ward, because the cancer has gotten so bad, they literally can’t give you enough morphine to dull the pain. BRY

Response:

I disagree some 3rd world vodoo just doesn’t buy it for me. Research is costly. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Indeed. Well said, Twang. Over 20 years ago, I managed a small chain of "health food stores" that were owned by a fellow that practiced holistic medicine, and something called "iridology"…which has to do with looking into the iris of the eye and finding small "flaws" therein (which correspond to different areas of the body – I’m oversimplfying, of course)…and treating certain conditions with proper nutrition, mega-vitamin therapy, etc.  These things are only beginning to be looked at seriously by doctors today, but back then, it was considered akin to voodoo witchcraft. I saw this man help many people…people with cancer, blood disorders, mental health problems, etc…people who "modern medicine" could not help (yes, they tried that first).  Western medicine is not the be-all-and-end-all when it comes to conquering diseases.  There are viable alternatives… That said…cancer is a horrible thing to have and a tough thing to beat.  My old man had it, but thank God, the doctors were able to cure it..at a cost.  He was a lifetime smoker…he developed  a cancer in his mouth, and they had to literally cut away a great deal of his face.  Luckily, they were able to do a fair amount of facial reconstruction, utilizing fairly new techniques.  Had this happened to him as little as 5 years earlier, he would have been a circus freak (a nasty way to put it…but true, nevertheless). They even wrote him up in a medical journal…a 72 year-old man who spent a total of 23 and 1/2 hours (30 minutes short of a full 24 hour day) under the knife. On the other hand, my best friend succumbed to lung cancer…another lifetime smoker.  In his case, I still wonder if it was the cancer or the chemotherapy that did him in.  Let me interject here…that there are few lower lifeforms than politicians who are against the use of medical marijhuana because they are afraid of appearing "soft on drugs". Another perspective…I used to date a woman whose sister was married to a millionaire who owned a popular bagel franchise.  She had an extremely rare form of cancer.  He spent vast amounts of money flying in experts from the 4 corners of the globe…all to no avail.  When he had exhausted traditional methods, he tried other means…nutrition, mega-vitamin therapy, faith healers, running her blood through Ultra-Violet Light sterilizers, even magnetism..again, to no avail.  She eventually succumbed to the cancer. And, it’s not always smokers.  My cousin, a beautiful actress/singer who was once married to the guy who plays the Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, developed cancer. Never smoked in her life.  Again, I wonder if it was the cancer or the chemo that got her. Anyhow…I know this was long-winded…sorry.  But, well…sorry.. is all I can say. Thanks, BRY

Response:

To be honest, I wish I had been able to get my dad interested in alternatives to radiation/chemo.  He just lost hope and went through the motions.  I get the feeling that your beliefs about the possibility of beating it and your engagement in fighting it have as much, or more, to do with the outcome than do the particular type of interventions you choose. Good luck Ed. Kerry

I can see your point. But I’m not much on biofeedback.. self healing.. For instance, with hypothyroid you lose energy, you don’t make an effort.. you lose more engergy. More than the vitamins or supplements I take, what counts is forcing yourself off your ass. And don’t underestimate the difficulty. All the time in many support newsgroups the person who’s up one week or one month will show up totally wrecked later on. You’d hardly believe it’s the same person. I try different things… I never look for more from them than I put out myself. In fact, I have no hope of beating any of this crap. But I don’t have to make it easy. Besides, my kid stinks on guitar.. who can die with that hangin’ over their head? *G* see ya.. good luck to you, too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

… for the worse.  I have nothing against "alternative" treatments if they can allow themselves to be scrutinized in the same manner as modern treatments; id est: clinical trials.  Would you trust a car that was built but never tested?  I haven’t heard of any validated cases where an entire group of people using alternative treatments recovered from their illnesses, as shown by some standard test (not anecdote), wherein the modern treatments failed to do the same. This is sounding so familiar.  There are a bunch of alternative treatment advocates on sci.skeptic arguing about the "rebirthing" death in my state, Colorado.  Unless the alternative treatment can be shown by clinical trials, and not anecdotal evidence, it has no reason to be considered efficable. I’ll agree that there are many of them out there that have potential to be considered efficable, such as chiropractics (which is already mainstream), some herbals, and maybe, just maybe accupuncture (which still requires more study).  Just remember this, a highly regarded treatment used by professional nurses, therapeutic touch, was dashed against the rocks by a 12 year old girl in a simple experiment which showed that there was no effect above chance.  Homeopathic medicine has never shown a significant result in a clinical trial, the only purported result being the placebo effect (and maybe that drinking more water is good for you). Since this is off-topic for this group, I will abstain from any more on this.  I will say that the fervor that alternative medicine advocates have toward a bunch of unproven treatment practices is starting to amount to a religious one.  Prove their efficacy, then boast about their superiority, eh.  It would appear that I’ll be doing much more reading on this to better confront such zealousness. Robert Templeton

Response:

To be honest, I wish I had been able to get my dad interested in alternatives to radiation/chemo.  He just lost hope and went through the motions.  I get the feeling that your beliefs about the possibility of beating it and your engagement in fighting it have as much, or more, to do with the outcome than do the particular type of interventions you choose. Good luck Ed. Kerry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

On the other hand,….I doubt that If i ever have a "serious" disease, I’ll get a "get well soon" card from Eddie I’m not trying to piss people off here,..just as an example that there are hundreds of thousands of ppl all over the world that have cancer, being famous doesn’t make you an exception for more attention (yes I do give a crap,…I’m just being realistic)

But is it better to send out one card, and address it to Eddie Van Halen, or to just send none? EVH might well send you a card if he /knew/ you had a serious disease (especially if you were a fan). Plus, fans probably care more about EVH than Nobby Nobody from Streatham, because they feel they know him, having followed his career, interviews, gigs etc. Schwingvey Waynesteen – It’s probably lung cancer from smoking all those other players… www.angelfire.com/electronic/electrovomit

Response:

I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. You mean he might get his tit cut off? jimmyd

She didn’t have a mastectomy. As far as the ‘alternative’ route you mention.. it’s not all crackpot stuff, despite what the AMA assholes would have you think. I can tell you after ten years of inefficient, clumsy, and wrong Drs. trained in the western ‘tradition’ that many many people are helped with all sorts of problems by alternative methods, and that alternative medicine is fast becoming a requirement for those people who have found pill pushers and disinterested money grubbers useless. Times are changing.

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

I guess we’re going to learn what the FAMILY wants us to know.  Anybody who gets that diagnosis has to handle it in his own way.  It’s an intensely personal thing, even — and perhaps especially — in a celebrity.  It’s a safe bet that he’s going through hell.. People give a crap.  Maybe we’re giving him some space.  It might mean more to send a card to his fan club address wishing him all the best.  Or to send a few bucks to the American Cancer Society.

Response:

Why isnt this bigger news? Seems no one gives a crap. What kind of cancer does he have, how is he doing etc…?

I’m sure it’ll be big news if he decides to go the "alternative" medicine route, like Suzanne Sommers. Let’s all hope that he’s more intelligent than this and seeks the best conventional treatment. Robert Templeton

Response:

On the other hand,….I doubt that If i ever have a "serious" disease, I’ll get a "get well soon" card from Eddie I’m not trying to piss people off here,..just as an example that there are hundreds of thousands of ppl all over the world that have cancer, being famous doesn’t make you an exception for more attention (yes I do give a crap,…I’m just being realistic) — Nightbat

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